David Gaiman has died

[thetanic]

Daivd Gaiman, father of Neil Gaiman, has died. (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/03/another-day.html)

He was a PR flak for CoS in London. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gaiman) There's posts about him in the various London protest threads.

My condolences to the family for their loss.

I'm sure someone else will step up to the role he held in Scn.

[dt2000]

Oh wow, I'm sorry for his family's loss. I was just asking about Neil a couple days ago. I knew Claire (Neil's sister) very well. I hope she is allowed back to the UK for her dad's funeral. She works at the HGB.

[thetanic]

Oh wow, I'm sorry for his family's loss. I was just asking about Neil a couple days ago. I knew Claire (Neil's sister) very well. I hope she is allowed back to the UK for her dad's funeral. She works at the HGB.

I pray that they'll let her visit. Heck, I'd still love to visit St. Hill. :)

[lionheart]

David was largely responsible for developing Scn PR tech for handling critics and the press, according to LRH's orders and PLs. The same tech that is used against critics and the press today.

May he now find peace and no longer have the need for shore stories and PR lies. Fare well David.

[DartSmohen]

I was sorry to hear he passed away.

I have known him for many years and despite his involvement in the nefarious activities of the cult, he always stoog aside from the evil squad that perpetrate many of their crimes.

David was,basically, a kind, decent man.

Dart

[Dulloldfart]

Wow. That's a shock.

Interesting how people can be considered to be real cunts while alive but as soon as they die one is hesitant to say a harsh word.

I never spoke to him more than a couple of times. I feel for Claire who I've always thought is decent but not for him or Sheila or the other kids that I had no contact with, any more than others I don't personally know when the family is impacted by death.

Paul

[DCAnon]

Wow. That's a shock.

Interesting how people can be considered to be real cunts while alive but as soon as they die one is hesitant to say a harsh word.

I never spoke to him more than a couple of times. I feel for Claire who I've always thought is decent but not for him or Sheila or the other kids that I had no contact with, any more than others I don't personally know when the family is impacted by death.

Paul

I agree completely. I'm sorry for Neil who I really admire to lose someone he loved. As for his asshat father who spent his life lying and trying to destroy the lives of people who stood up to abuse, he can rot. I don't have a lot of sympathy in me to begin with, I'll save it for someone who actually deserves it.

[ScudMuffin]

Sorry to hear this. He would of been one of the people I'd of wanted to get out. Shame we'll never see the real David now.

Course, hopefully he's left BrumAnon a nice present, namely fucking up the cults chance to buy Pitmaston and surrounding plots.

[xseaorguk]

It was people like him in the GO that I 'hated' most, altho I'm not a hateful person.
He built up a vitamin empire in East Grinstead, all at the cost of others believing in the shite of Elron.

Its people like him who made the real big bucks from being 'OT' and 'making it go right'.

He must have known the truth behind the scam, so I would say in their lingo he just

"pulled this in"

[airhead]

Oh shoot, I knew him and him family. I'm sorry to hear this.

[thetanic]

Sorry to hear this. He would of been one of the people I'd of wanted to get out. Shame we'll never see the real David now.

He sounded like an interesting person from Neil's description. Perhaps some of his family will get out now. Sometimes one person's the anchor.

[lionheart]

He may well have been a decent person, most scientologists are.

But he was Ron's right-hand henchman when it came to developing the nasty PR tech that is still in use.

When you watch Tommy Davis performing you should know that David was the man who developed the techniques that Tommy is using today.

I spoke with David in EG last summer when he was "handling" the pirate protestors. He was still using his PR tech, denying Hubbard's affirmations, while smiling.

He was also a key person involved in the financial deals behind aquisitions in recent years of CofS properties. He was a named director of companies involved.

Still carrying out LRH's work to the end. Maybe the "business" meeting he was at when he died was one of his covert CofS property deals.

He can stop playing Ron's game now. He is free at last! :happydance:

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Sorry to hear this.. All things considered..

David was the Guardian for PRWW when I joined the GO PR EU.. I spoke with him brifly a couple of times when I was at EG for the PR course. I lived in that old camper he and Sheila had parked outside their house.

At the time I had great respect for him.. He seemed a nice man..

.

[xseaorguk]

how old was he by the way?
Did he have several chldren?

[Carmel]

On the odd occasion I feel somewhat ashamed to be associated with ESMB - right now is one of those occasions.

Many of us on this board were active in scn and used all that we could and all that we knew, to forward what we considered a good thing. In hindsight, knowing what we now know, we no longer consider that it was such a good thing to forward (but we didn't see it that way at the time).

Who of us exes didn't contribute to the CofS and its purposes to some or whatever degree? Should we be pardoned from condemnation just because we have been fortunate enough to see and get out, before we leave this life.....and, while at the same time, others who weren't so fortunate and didn't get out, are being condemned? Hardly!

We all have the right to say and think what we want about anybody, but there's a time and place IMO, and some things are better left unsaid - including what I've said in this post on this particular thread, possibly.

---------

I didn't know David or any of his family, although I have known of him since I was first in Scn. I am sorry to hear that he didn't get out before he left this life, and I am sorry for those who are hurting over his departure.

[I told you I was trouble]

Far out ... that is a surprise ... I suppose he was about 75 though?

He was declared at one stage (from memory).



He may well have been a decent person, most scientologists are.

But he was Ron's right-hand henchman when it came to developing the nasty PR tech that is still in use.

When you watch Tommy Davis performing you should know that David was the man who developed the techniques that Tommy is using today.


Very true .... I always think Tricky Tommy looks as though he is 'being' David Gaiman ... he appears to be 'in his valence' (sodding Scio speak) ... he even looks like him.


I spoke with David in EG last summer when he was "handling" the pirate protestors. He was still using his PR tech, denying Hubbard's affirmations, while smiling.

Yep ... saw that ... he was exactly the same as always with 'that' smile (slightly wonky and oh so genuine ... cough ... until you look at the eyes and could see that sadly he was being robotic ... to the end).

Ah well.

RIP David and condolences to Sheila and family.

[chipgallo]

Yeah, I'll never forget being on a finance course at Flag sometime around 1982, when Gaiman was declared. I think it was for the ubiquitous "financial irregularities." Anyway, all the Board PLs that he authored or co-wrote were canceled, so half my course pack disappeared.

[Ladybird]

My condolences and deepest sympathy to the family of David Gaiman.

Here is his son Neil Gaimans blog and bio.

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coraline_(film)

[michaelangelo]

I saw all the Gaiman family when I was in the S O at Saint Hill during the 70's and 80's. But never had any direct communication with them. I used to buy stuff from his exspensive canteen. The only one I liked was the Grandmother, David's mum (she used to work in the canteen) . The rest of the Gaiman's I found rather arrogant. Though David seemed like a man with a sense of humour. I still order vitimin supplements from G and G and I thought that the Gaiman's were all declared and no longer involved in Scientology. I imagine that David started out with good intentions but then later was influenced a lot by Hubbard to commit overts.

[sp declared]

My condolences to Claire Edwards of SMI INT.

SP Declared

[johnAnchovie]

Most of us regret and indeed are horrified at the energy, acts of faith, support and belief that we invested in Hubbard's twisted world; yet at the time, even during very, very bad times, we were certain that we had discovered the key to a secret universe, past lives and new Scientology led civilization. We felt brighter, stronger and more worthy than all those wogs, brighter and more capable and Hubbard loved shoreing up that belief.

We had blinded ourselves, locked away that screaming voice of reason in a dark, dank dungeon while our craven, addictive appites were drip-fed with Hubbard's 'spiritual drugs', we loved the buzz, the fear, terror, the burn outs and the abuse. Those that stayed, those like David, were simply able to take more abuse, were able to provide themselves with higher levels of argument to keep them there or had simply invested so much that they had no choice but to defend to the death.

I both liked and hated David, he was was both an inspiration and an object of derision, he was good and he was an evil bastard and he could have had such a positive imact on the world had he served in other fields. So much more, his brilliant mind, his wit and his breadth of knowledge could have done so much for so many... or maybe not.

Goodbye David, if someone as smart as you could have his life hijacked by Hubbard, then I am not such an idiot after all.

I wish Sheila, my dear former friend Clair, and Neil peace and solace.

[Tiger Lily]

Most of us regret and indeed are horrified at the energy, acts of faith, support and belief that we invested in Hubbard's twisted world; yet at the time, even during very, very bad times, we were certain that we had discovered the key to a secret universe, past lives and new Scientology led civilization. We felt brighter, stronger and more worthy than all those wogs, brighter and more capable and Hubbard loved shoreing up that belief.

We had blinded ourselves, locked away that screaming voice of reason in a dark, dank dungeon while our craven, addictive appites were drip-fed with Hubbard's 'spiritual drugs', we loved the buzz, the fear, terror, the burn outs and the abuse. Those that stayed, those like David, were simply able to take more abuse, were able to provide themselves with higher levels of argument to keep them there or had simply invested so much that they had no choice but to defend to the death.

I both liked and hated David, he was was both an inspiration and an object of derision, he was good and he was an evil bastard and he could have had such a positive imact on the world had he served in other fields. So much more, his brilliant mind, his wit and his breadth of knowledge could have done so much for so many... or maybe not.

Goodbye David, if someone as smart as you could have his life hijacked by Hubbard, then I am not such an idiot after all.

I wish Sheila, my dear former friend Clair, and Neil peace and solace.

Wow JohnAnchovie, that was a great post. If you aren't a writer, you should be.
-TL

[lionheart]

Most of us regret and indeed are horrified at the energy, acts of faith, support and belief that we invested in Hubbard's twisted world; yet at the time, even during very, very bad times, we were certain that we had discovered the key to a secret universe, past lives and new Scientology led civilization. We felt brighter, stronger and more worthy than all those wogs, brighter and more capable and Hubbard loved shoreing up that belief.

We had blinded ourselves, locked away that screaming voice of reason in a dark, dank dungeon while our craven, addictive appites were drip-fed with Hubbard's 'spiritual drugs', we loved the buzz, the fear, terror, the burn outs and the abuse. Those that stayed, those like David, were simply able to take more abuse, were able to provide themselves with higher levels of argument to keep them there or had simply invested so much that they had no choice but to defend to the death.

I both liked and hated David, he was was both an inspiration and an object of derision, he was good and he was an evil bastard and he could have had such a positive imact on the world had he served in other fields. So much more, his brilliant mind, his wit and his breadth of knowledge could have done so much for so many... or maybe not.

Goodbye David, if someone as smart as you could have his life hijacked by Hubbard, then I am not such an idiot after all.

I wish Sheila, my dear former friend Clair, and Neil peace and solace.

Well said!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Mick Wenlock]

Most of us regret and indeed are horrified at the energy, acts of faith, support and belief that we invested in Hubbard's twisted world; yet at the time, even during very, very bad times, we were certain that we had discovered the key to a secret universe, past lives and new Scientology led civilization. We felt brighter, stronger and more worthy than all those wogs, brighter and more capable and Hubbard loved shoreing up that belief.

We had blinded ourselves, locked away that screaming voice of reason in a dark, dank dungeon while our craven, addictive appites were drip-fed with Hubbard's 'spiritual drugs', we loved the buzz, the fear, terror, the burn outs and the abuse. Those that stayed, those like David, were simply able to take more abuse, were able to provide themselves with higher levels of argument to keep them there or had simply invested so much that they had no choice but to defend to the death.

I both liked and hated David, he was was both an inspiration and an object of derision, he was good and he was an evil bastard and he could have had such a positive imact on the world had he served in other fields. So much more, his brilliant mind, his wit and his breadth of knowledge could have done so much for so many... or maybe not.

Goodbye David, if someone as smart as you could have his life hijacked by Hubbard, then I am not such an idiot after all.

I wish Sheila, my dear former friend Clair, and Neil peace and solace.

wot he said

[Mick Wenlock]

On the odd occasion I feel somewhat ashamed to be associated with ESMB - right now is one of those occasions.

Many of us on this board were active in scn and used all that we could and all that we knew, to forward what we considered a good thing. In hindsight, knowing what we now know, we no longer consider that it was such a good thing to forward (but we didn't see it that way at the time).

Who of us exes didn't contribute to the CofS and its purposes to some or whatever degree? Should we be pardoned from condemnation just because we have been fortunate enough to see and get out, before we leave this life.....and, while at the same time, others who weren't so fortunate and didn't get out, are being condemned? Hardly!

We all have the right to say and think what we want about anybody, but there's a time and place IMO, and some things are better left unsaid - including what I've said in this post on this particular thread, possibly.

---------

I didn't know David or any of his family, although I have known of him since I was first in Scn. I am sorry to hear that he didn't get out before he left this life, and I am sorry for those who are hurting over his departure.


welll I have to disagree with you.

people who have got out of Scientology and who think it is harming others should be respectful of someone who pushed it to the very end? Why? Just because he died?

This man pushed programs to HURT people who he thought were opposed to Scientology. He publicly supported an organization that hurts people. He never once spoke out against it or to protest the unholy and unethical actions taken under DM - preferring instead to secure what he saw as his own personal gains.

This is not worthy of respect. Gaiman had ample opportunity to speak and never did, instead preferring to support.

As for Sheila and Claire - well they wont be grieving - that would be "downtone". So I do not care about them at all.

For Neil - yes, I feel some empathy for his pain.

As for David Gaiman, his legacy as DG PR and his work to support DM ever since -

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

[lionheart]

welll I have to disagree with you.

people who have got out of Scientology and who think it is harming others should be respectful of someone who pushed it to the very end? Why? Just because he died?

This man pushed programs to HURT people who he thought were opposed to Scientology. He publicly supported an organization that hurts people. He never once spoke out against it or to protest the unholy and unethical actions taken under DM - preferring instead to secure what he saw as his own personal gains.

This is not worthy of respect. Gaiman had ample opportunity to speak and never did, instead preferring to support.

As for Sheila and Claire - well they wont be grieving - that would be "downtone". So I do not care about them at all.

For Neil - yes, I feel some empathy for his pain.

As for David Gaiman, his legacy as DG PR and his work to support DM ever since -

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Yes, I'm afraid he was still pulling out his dirty PR tricks last summer when I met him at an EG protest. Very disappointing and sad.

He has also recently paid a big part in the dirty financial deals regarding CofS properties.

One can criticise the actions while still loving the basic being behind the acts.

At least he is free of those dirty games now.

[hartley]

He was always a Church of Scientology loyalist and nothing else really mattered, and he was I suppose the last of the 'old timers' at Saint Hill who did what he chose to do and not what the 'new timers' ordered.

It was significant I think that in the recent Saint Hill protests while Janet Laveau was talking to her imaginary friend on her mobile and Graham Wilson was hiding he came out and confronted the protesters, the only one to do so. He wasn't afraid of SPs.

IIRC he led the CoS team to Ukraine which almost persuaded the government to pay for saunas for children affected by radiation from the Chernobyl tragedy. Fortunately the Russians got a warning through before any significant cash was handed over - radiation is not water soluble! That was I would suppose his last significant effort. He leaves his Vitamin shop in East Grinstead, drug suppliers by appointment to the Church.

[Terril park]

On the odd occasion I feel somewhat ashamed to be associated with ESMB - right now is one of those occasions.

Many of us on this board were active in scn and used all that we could and all that we knew, to forward what we considered a good thing. In hindsight, knowing what we now know, we no longer consider that it was such a good thing to forward (but we didn't see it that way at the time).

Who of us exes didn't contribute to the CofS and its purposes to some or whatever degree? Should we be pardoned from condemnation just because we have been fortunate enough to see and get out, before we leave this life.....and, while at the same time, others who weren't so fortunate and didn't get out, are being condemned? Hardly!

We all have the right to say and think what we want about anybody, but there's a time and place IMO, and some things are better left unsaid - including what I've said in this post on this particular thread, possibly.

---------

I didn't know David or any of his family, although I have known of him since I was first in Scn. I am sorry to hear that he didn't get out before he left this life, and I am sorry for those who are hurting over his departure.

Thanks for the moral statement. :)

Been a pantywaist dilletante for decades, and interacted with David mostly at a distance. Got pulled into the London UK comittee long time ago.
We were ocassionally addressed by David and Jane Kember.

I remember a rehearsal for an event at the London " Talk of The Town"
nightclub, David calling out to Jane's reading, " Less Lucretia Borgia". :)

I knew him best when he was at his lowest. In my very brief reign as ED London Day, I recieved David and Herbie Parkhouse, just after the dissolution of the GO as a couple sent to make amends or something. Their task to expand or something similar. As a newly returned lone FEBC who was not originally destined to be anything but a HAS I was having a rough time. My time with David and Herbie was some of the very few moments of
good comm and relaxation I had. In the collapsed org I took up Herbies idea
of div 6 putting out lots of comm lines. Still doing this. Then I sent the staff out for an hour or so every morning distributing leaflets.

They were sad and resigned, and trying to make things go right. Me too really. :)

I heard stories that David only stayed in COS because his wife would otherwise disconnect with children.

I met him briefly many years later shortly before I left COS. We were both doing some cycle, correction of some sorts? And briefly talked of that
time we shared and he said it was his low point or something similar.

I found him gracious. By coincidence this time of my leaving my ARCX auditor was his, or one of his daughters. Claire? She was so sweet and spent time answering questions very honestly out of session.

Like I and many of us he was looking for spiritual enhancement. Like
most of us I expect he did some wrong actions. I know little about them in fact.

Regardless he has my forgiveness.

[Lynn Fountain Campbell]

Wow JohnAnchovie, that was a great post. If you aren't a writer, you should be.
-TL

He is a writer. Here's his book: The Complex ("http://www.amazon.com/dp/1903582849?tag=shearperfe-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1903582849&adid=0F3CRV1KKFERDG04C4YH&).

Lynn

[Carmel]

welll I have to disagree with you.

people who have got out of Scientology and who think it is harming others should be respectful of someone who pushed it to the very end? Why? Just because he died?
<snip>

No, not at all! In saying that though, I don't think that one should be disrespectful either, to someone and/or to his family, just after he has died.

As I said, sometimes I think things are better left unsaid. In addition to that, I think there are certain times when it's better to err on the side of cutting slack rather than sticking the knife in.

If I read where people were trying to stick the knife into David Gaiman while he was alive, for what he was doing or still doing, and if I didn't know that he was declared back in the early eighties, my reaction to a couple of posts (just after he died) may well have been different.

Either way, if I was Neil right now, I wouldn't want to read that someone was wishing my father would 'rot', nor would I want to see him cursed. It was that in particular that made me feel ill.

[lionheart]

There is so much bad in the best of us
and so much good in the worst of us
that it ill behoves any of us
To allow the good and bad to go unoticed

It seems to me that recent post-82 scientologists and exes have little idea of the genesis of the techniques used by johnny-come-lately's like David Miscavige and Tommy Davis.

I often see on ESMB, people who came into Scn after 82 blaming DM and TD for all of the CofS's faults.

So I think it is entirely appropriate in someone's obituaries to explain the recently deceased's part in the creation of the techniques that are still being used against the CofS's inmates and critics.

Personally I think this should be done respectfully and I hope I did so. But in view of the harm the CofS does, it is hardly surprising if some people use heated language.

Dead or alive, David has to bear the responsibilty for his actions. His surviving family, if they did not speak out against his crimes, cannot expect his evil deeds to go unremarked upon his death.

Of course he was basically decent, but he let himself be led astray into dark pathways by his guru. He never appeared to recant or see the error of his ways. This is part of the story of David's life.

I try to err in normal life on the side of not talking "about the rest of us" but this is an ex-board and people are hurting from the CofS and the truth should be told, in my opinion.

Of course Ron's original quoting of the poem had two agendas. One was the public PR graciousness of the poem, the other was the secret agenda to shut his slaves up!

I will not be silenced by scientology tech, neither the overt tech nor the covert tech of which David was a major author.

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

I was very sad to hear that David Gaiman had died. I first met him in London, probably 20 years ago. He was giving me some sort of dodgy case interview, wherein he was telling me about himself. He had said that he got declared when the GO was disbanded, simply because they just declared everyone in the GO. He also said that he subsequently petitioned (or something) his way out of the declare.

I met him years later at St Hill (UK) where he was re-doing his SHSBC. He was a really great old-time auditor. Excellent ARC and 2WC. We got along great. :happydance: This was old SHSBC style. He would say things like "that was as clean as a dog's tooth" (I queried this as I had heard LRH saying "as clean as a wolf's tooth"- David said LRH used both.)

I have never seen the "other" side of David that people seem to find evil and heartless. I imagine that if you are labelled as an SP, and are fighting someone's deeply held beliefs, you are going to see an entirely different side to their character.

Personally I would have liked to talk to him one-on-one concerning my newly found ex- status. I am sad that I have missed that opportunity :bigcry: , and wish him all the best for his future.

[I told you I was trouble]

There is a photo of David Gaiman in the latest Advance mag ... he is holding a 'Captains Commend' (apparently for services rendered to the National OT committee) ... he looks (to me) somewhat bemused.

In the same mag I notice that Sheila (Gaiman) has just completed the PDC lectures.

Kevin (Kember) completed the Self Analysis and Science of Survival courses and David Gaiman the Scientology 8-80 book and lectures course.

Past execs that literally ran the World wide ops studying the 'new' basics ... and (apparently) taking it all seriously ... :confused2:



Posted by Lesolee(Sith Lord)
Personally I would have liked to talk to him one-on-one concerning my newly found ex- status. I am sad that I have missed that opportunity , and wish him all the best for his future.


I very much doubt he would have given you the time of day (sadly) ... as an ex you would not have even registered on his radar IMHO.

I don't believe he was evil or heartless ... just a 'good Scio' ... to the end.

[Not Anonymous]

I hope that David is well and has found a healthy new body.

His wife and children must be distraught to have lost a husband and a good father.

May they rejoice in his life and the good things that he did, which were many.

NLA

[degraded being]

I hope that David is well and has found a healthy new body.

His wife and children must be distraught to have lost a husband and a good father.

May they rejoice in his life and the good things that he did, which were many.

NLA

Personal friend?

[Pooks]

This hat write up was written by Mary Sue Hubbard, the wife of LRH, David Gaiman who was once the Deputy Guardian Public Relations for Scn World Wide, and Jane Kember, Guardian WW.

It's a pdf file-- 13 pages on how to destroy the enemy. Read it and you will see what they are doing to anons and ex's that speak out.



"PUBLIC RELATIONS CHIEF


PURPOSE: To help Ron create or alter the public image of Scientology, Scientology Orgs and Scientologists so as to project an image or images desirable in preventing or combating attacks from Suppresives: to create press stories which accomplish this purpose: to expose publicly the attacking enemies of, Scientology based on information given by Intelligence: to obtain excellent press coverage for Scientology and derogatory press coverage for enemies of Scientology: to associate attacking group's activities with reprehensible past groups and to study and use words currently reprehensible to describe the enemies of Scientology and their actions: to use any and all means of communication to counter-influence officials pressurized by Suppressives into attacking Scientology: by supplying them facts and by representing the side of Scientology. "

Download file here:


Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=39e10c0ae95114928c9e7c56ba37815f4d7309bf 9b2ceb63)

[lionheart]

There is a photo of David Gaiman in the latest Advance mag ... he is holding a 'Captains Commend' (apparently for services rendered to the National OT committee) ... he looks (to me) somewhat bemused.

In the same mag I notice that Sheila (Gaiman) has just completed the PDC lectures.

Kevin (Kember) completed the Self Analysis and Science of Survival courses and David Gaiman the Scientology 8-80 book and lectures course.

Past execs that literally ran the World wide ops studying the 'new' basics ... and (apparently) taking it all seriously ... :confused2:





I very much doubt he would have given you the time of day (sadly) ... as an ex you would not have even registered on his radar IMHO.

I don't believe he was evil or heartless ... just a 'good Scio' ... to the end.

Yes, he was a good Scio to the end. Last summer we two exes talked to him, he wasn't interested in us, just used a black-scn trick reverse process to try to cave one of us in and forwarded PR lies, denying Ron's Admissions and Armstrong's testimony. Still applying the black Scn he helped to develop per the above pdf document to defeat "enemies". Poor David! :bigcry:

[AOSHUKR6EW]

was he the guy with the walking stick at SHUK?

[Dulloldfart]

was he the guy with the walking stick at SHUK?

Google him. There are pix online.

Paul

[Not Anonymous]

Personal friend?

A long time ago... Hope his family are OK. NA

[Mick Wenlock]

There is a photo of David Gaiman in the latest Advance mag ... he is holding a 'Captains Commend' (apparently for services rendered to the National OT committee) ... he looks (to me) somewhat bemused.

In the same mag I notice that Sheila (Gaiman) has just completed the PDC lectures.

Kevin (Kember) completed the Self Analysis and Science of Survival courses and David Gaiman the Scientology 8-80 book and lectures course.

Past execs that literally ran the World wide ops studying the 'new' basics ... and (apparently) taking it all seriously ... :confused2:





I very much doubt he would have given you the time of day (sadly) ... as an ex you would not have even registered on his radar IMHO.

I don't believe he was evil or heartless ... just a 'good Scio' to the end.

Now that is a curious - your last two paragraphs.

Not believing he was evil or heartless - hmm. He tried to destroy people, he tried to destroy their reputations and their livelihood in all the name of supporting Hubbards insanity.

How is this NOT evil AND heartless?

This sounds like the "I was just a bureaucrat following really nasty and awful orders " defense used by Eichmann among others.

I am intrigued - perhaps Gaiman's BEST PR "Op" was convincing a lot of people that he was not an asshole.

Seriously - he did nasty and brutish things to deliberately hurt people. He was obviously OK with having done it because he remained a committed scientologist until the very end.

Why do you give him a "pass" on his behavior?

[I told you I was trouble]

Now that is a curious - your last two paragraphs.

Not believing he was evil or heartless - hmm. He tried to destroy people, he tried to destroy their reputations and their livelihood in all the name of supporting Hubbards insanity.

How is this NOT evil AND heartless?

This sounds like the "I was just a bureaucrat following really nasty and awful orders " defense used by Eichmann among others.

I am intrigued - perhaps Gaiman's BEST PR "Op" was convincing a lot of people that he was not an asshole.

Seriously - he did nasty and brutish things to deliberately hurt people. He was obviously OK with having done it because he remained a committed scientologist until the very end.

Why do you give him a "pass" on his behavior?

Because I felt like it.

[RolandRB]

Daivd Gaiman, father of Neil Gaiman, has died. (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/03/another-day.html)

He was a PR flak for CoS in London. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gaiman) There's posts about him in the various London protest threads.

My condolences to the family for their loss.

I'm sure someone else will step up to the role he held in Scn.

From the description of this shitbag then I can't say that I am sorry he is dead.

[Wisened One]

'Display books with symbols around them in view of the reporters. Symbols have command value'

:hysterical:

Ooooo, I'm soooo scared of the eight-pointed cross and the big, bad S in double triangles! :nervous: :hide: :nervous::runaway: :p :laugh:

[michaelangelo]

'Display books with symbols around them in view of the reporters. Symbols have command value'

:hysterical:

Ooooo, I'm soooo scared of the eight-pointed cross and the big, bad S in double triangles! :nervous: :hide: :nervous::runaway: :p :laugh:

To me all the sybolism is bullshit but I'm sure some of the symbolism is a form of brainwashing, but I think it it is mostly aimed at souls that have been programmed. Before they are "born again".

[anonymous1312]

David Gaiman did indeed have a good nature and showed this side to many but he was also a ruthless business man and well adapted to abusing others within the cult; he made a fair bit of money from cult members. He also actively engaged in and even orchestrated activities aimed at removing opposition to the cult.

David Gaimen wasn't deluded like so many others, sure he believed scientology worked for him but it really did, it provided him with the framework in which he thrived as an ruthless and unethical business man to his own gain. He was out of favour for a while but managed to get back in again because that was where he felt most comfortable.

As to his more personable attributes, well even Hitler was liked by family members and had many friends, far more than David Miscavige, so it doesn't surprise me there are those who have fond memories of him. The sum of his actions though was brought way down by his business and scientology practices though.

[NonScio]

I noticed from the bio at the site linked in the first post on this
thread that the family chose to give this man "A Jewish funeral
service in Brighton". So much for scientology's "religious tones";
it doesent say much about the family's view of the "church",
in the end, they turned back to an actual religion for the
last rites.

[I told you I was trouble]

David Gaiman did indeed have a good nature and showed this side to many but he was also a ruthless business man and well adapted to abusing others within the cult; he made a fair bit of money from cult members. He also actively engaged in and even orchestrated activities aimed at removing opposition to the cult.

David Gaimen wasn't deluded like so many others, sure he believed scientology worked for him but it really did, it provided him with the framework in which he thrived as an ruthless and unethical business man to his own gain. He was out of favour for a while but managed to get back in again because that was where he felt most comfortable.

As to his more personable attributes, well even Hitler was liked by family members and had many friends, far more than David Miscavige, so it doesn't surprise me there are those who have fond memories of him. The sum of his actions though was brought way down by his business and scientology practices though.

Very good points ... it's hard to disagree.



Originally posted by NonScio I noticed from the bio at the site linked in the first post on this
thread that the family chose to give this man "A Jewish funeral
service in Brighton". So much for scientology's "religious tones";
it doesent say much about the family's view of the "church",
in the end, they turned back to an actual religion for the
last rites.

That is amazing ... I doubt many knew about that ... I certainly didn't.

[anonymous1312]

Sorry to hear this. He would of been one of the people I'd of wanted to get out. Shame we'll never see the real David now.

Course, hopefully he's left BrumAnon a nice present, namely fucking up the cults chance to buy Pitmaston and surrounding plots.

Erm, the whole Pitmaston deal was signed and sealed before members were reg'd to collect the money to "purchase" it. Two scilon front companies registered in the Isle of Man currently own the building and a plot of land.

David Gaiman's involvement was as director of the primary purchasing company along with his daughter. His company purchased the whole plot of land, sub-divided it and sold it ALL off on the same day for just over 0.7 million pounds profit; David Gaiman and his wife later got the ball rolling on fund raising for the building by contributing 1/4 million pounds.

For those interested in the whole story of these shady shenanigans see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr4qL9QD2ns

This kind of thing David Gaiman got up to in the organisation calling itself The Church of Scientology. It was only thanks to some Anonymous investigation that this (his last major deal) was revealed.