the D-day in France - the trial start 25 May 2009

[8-8008]

Here are some articles from some papers in France. I looked for the ones in english.

Here is a link with a video :

http://www.france24.com/en/20090525-scientology-faces-fraud-trial-french-court-sect


Riviera radio:
"Scientology trial

The Church of Scientology goes on trial today in France. The State has brought fraud charges against the organisation and seven of its managers. The case centres on a complaint made in 1998 by a woman who said she was enrolled into Scientology by a group of people she met outside a metro station. In the following months, she said she paid more than 21-thousand euros for “purification packs” and books that made all kinds of extravagant and fraudulent claims."

I will follow it up today and in the next few days. I will keep you infoed. :thumbsup:

[Dulloldfart]

I searched "Scientology" in Google News. The top item is an article from the BBC about this case. It says in part:

"France regards the organisation as a sect, and correspondents say it could be banned if it loses the case. It will be the first time the church has appeared as a defendant in a fraud case in France. Previous court cases have involved individual Scientologists."

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8066743.stm

Paul

[FoTi]

I searched "Scientology" in Google News. The top item is an article from the BBC about this case. It says in part:

"France regards the organisation as a sect, and correspondents say it could be banned if it loses the case...."

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8066743.stm

Paul

Boy, do I ever hope that they lose this case!!!!

[8-8008]

Yes me too, I hope they will lose. Everything I read so far in the french newspaper seems that Scientology is not afraid to lose and even says that it will not lose. Anyway, this is hot now. Every major newspaper in France have the story or stuff on Scientology FRONT PAGE. Nice.

My interview I did last week, should come out too sooooooooon ! won't say when but when it does, I will post it. It is with a pseudo of course. Still new out here and don't want to get into the fair game yet. But soon the full story will come out. I am writing about it. 60 pages and more to come. !!!!!

[Free to shine]

Thanks to Sponge on OCMB who put all these links together.http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=359714&sid=4a0980e622f0770e6c6a0a6d2f25ae96#359714


More of the morning Pre-Trial news.......

http://www.france24.com/en/20090525-scientology-faces-fraud-trial-french-court-sect

Quote:
The organisation says that it is not afraid of this court case, having won so many in the past. This time though, it's on high alert.

The "organisation" says lots of things. Meanwhile, David Miscavige is still shitting himself.

BBC News is on this (currently #2 in the top 10 read stories)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8066743.stm

Vote: Should we ban the Church of Scientology in France?
result so far.....
YES 91%
No 9%
(votes 542)
http://www.bfmtv.fr/

Radio France International (english).
Church of Scientology goes on trial in Paris for fraud
http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/113/article_3857.asp

Scientology goes on trial in France - The Insider
http://www.theinsider.com/news/2205288_Scientology_goes_on_trial_in_France

The UK Guardian...
Church of Scientology on trial in France accused of defrauding the vulnerable
Church alleged to have duped 'fragile' woman out of life savings could be shut down in France
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/25/scientology-france-court

Scientologists in France go on trial for fraud - REUTERS
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE54O2DE20090525

Washington Post...
French court tries Church of Scientology
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/25/AR2009052500888.html

[8-8008]

Thanks Free to Shine !!!

[Axiom142]

Great news!

This story was featured on the BBC’s main teletext news pages and is one of the most read stories on their website. And the story on the website also has a link to: http://www.xenu-directory.net/

So whatever the result of this case, it’s all good publicity for those who oppose this cult’s manipulative practices.

Let’s hope that the prosecutors have learnt from previous cases and that they ensure that evidence doesn’t go ‘missing’ again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/452268.stm


“Monday, September 20, 1999 Published at 10:27 GMT 11:27 UK

French Scientologists on trial for fraud

Seven members of the Church of Scientology have gone on trial in the French city of Marseille on charges of obtaining large sums of money by fraud from other followers of the Church.

The case has led to renewed calls for the banning of Scientology in France, which already figures on the country's official list of dangerous cults.

The trial attracted public attention after fifty boxes of evidence disappeared from the Marseille Prosecutor's office.

The Justice Minister said the loss of the files was simply a mistake, but it's the second time in recent years that evidence against Scientologists in France has disappeared. “

And let’s hope that this is the first of many criminal cases against the ‘Church’ of Scientology. :thumbsup:


Axiom142

[ILived1984!]

Yes me too, I hope they will lose. Everything I read so far in the french newspaper seems that Scientology is not afraid to lose and even says that it will not lose. Anyway, this is hot now. Every major newspaper in France have the story or stuff on Scientology FRONT PAGE. Nice.

My interview I did last week, should come out too sooooooooon ! won't say when but when it does, I will post it. It is with a pseudo of course. Still new out here and don't want to get into the fair game yet. But soon the full story will come out. I am writing about it. 60 pages and more to come. !!!!!

Thanks for keeping us updated on this 8-8008.

Scientology not afraid to lose and saying it will not lose. Sounds like a staff briefing when they would tell us that Scientology has the tech and truth and will win agains the SPs! More like the CofS has money and lies which is why I think they ever had legal wins.

Yeah, post your interview!

[8-8008]

:thumbsup: :clap: Yes Ilived1984. Your statement is right. I remember the briefing in the main mess in PAC. Fuck this, what a waste of time and giving us only the data they wanted us to hear about.

Well I am keeping track a bit of it. But you can also find the news on the net. This is everywhere, England, USA, France of course.....

:hifive:

[xenusdad]

It began in a French courtroom on 24 May 2009. Two months later France banned the co$ and so began the slow painful death of a money hungry psychotic and parastitic cult.
As one country after another banned the evil scammers, vast sums of money were earned by their lawyers trying to fight their "good" fight, but alas it was in vain and the noose just kept on getting tighter.
Eventually at the Battle of Hemet, the evil of $cientology was finally extinguished and the sigh of relief around the world was felt by the entire human race.
The party was fantastic.
I'm still hungover.
:whistling:

[ttamaad]

The story is also running on the front of the Sydney Morning Herald online

http://www.smh.com.au/world/church-of-scientology-on-trial-for-fraud-20090526-bl0k.html

[Martini]

It is on the Yahoo front page - be sure to buzz it up and recommend it to push it even higher on the page. Check out the comments and leave one - one really sees the public opinion of Scn - no support at all.

The cult has already lost just by the amount of negative publicity this case has gathered.

From a legal perspective I would have to think the case with the woman who was fired has the strongest chance of victory for the plaintiff.

[Snuffy]

Today's Guardian followed up its story from yesterday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/25/scientology-france-fraud

[DartSmohen]

Hopefully this will be the tipping point.

Hubbard used to say that "bank follows the line of attack."

Well, I guess thst makes it ok to be real "banky" about the cult.

Hopefully other countries will follow this example and burn them.

Dart

[sallydannce]

Hopefully this will be the tipping point.

Hubbard used to say that "bank follows the line of attack."

Well, I guess thst makes it ok to be real "banky" about the cult.

Hopefully other countries will follow this example and burn them.

Dart

Here here to that Dart!

Enough really is enough of this insidious nonsense being inflicted upon the world. Really really enough is enough!

Go the French prosecution team. Bless you all and may you do your very best legal work. You have enormous support from the ex-scientologist community. Oh and here's hoping the damn evidence doesn't get "lost" this time. :yes:

[scooter]

I think there's a cancerous little gnome in the desert this very moment having recurring nightmares about this case and the others beseiging His religious scam.

That makes me feel sooooooo good.:D

[OliviaZero]

Ahhh.....I love the smell of a fraud trial in the morning. I woke up to hearing the news on CNN this morning (they did a horrible 10-second summary of it, as they are wont to do, but I was glad it was on there at all). :happydance:

[8-8008]

:happydance:
Check this out. This is the story they have on the Express website. Interesting how the girl put it together but it seems ok to me. By the way this is the interview I got from her. She omitted stuff but the concept is there and not altered much. Of course, I used a fake name and she knows it. Basically stating that I was involved for a long time, used to be on the reg lines, regging, ripping off people, getting them into debts, taking their money for the church (AND NOT PROUD OF IT AT ALL ANYMORE), not having time off, being manipulated, all the time under pressure..... and that I am disaffected, and now going on with life...... Happy to have said it. :happydance: I told her I am writing my story with the full details and my real name...... she is very hot about this one. Not done yet and still a way to go. Here is the link. In french of course.:whistling:

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/revelations-d-un-ancien-membre-de-la-scientologie_762883.html

:hifive: :party: :cheers: :write:

[Free to shine]

From WWP http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-media/french-trial-media-46255/4/


Here are some (incomplete) details pieced together from press coverage.

The trial is expected to last from Mon. May 25 to Wed. June 17, 2009. Today, May 25, 2009, Jean-Pierre Brard, member of the Orientation Council of MIVILUDES, testified that Scientology tried at the last minute to obtain withdrawal of the complaints in exchange for large sums, but that these offers were refused. Defense lawyer Alexis Gublin argued that an organization which wishes to join the civil parties, UNADFI (National Union of Associations for the Defense of Families and Individuals who are Victims of Sects) should be disqualified; the decision will be delivered at the same time as the verdict of the trial.

Investigating judge: Jean Christophe Hullin

Presiding judge: Sophie-Hélène Château

Lawyers for the defendants:
Patrick Maisonneuve
Alexis Gublin

Lawyer for the plaintiffs:
Olivier Morice

Defendants:

* Alain Frank Rosenberg, 60, director of the Celebrity Center in Paris.
* Jean-François Valli, member of the COS since 1989, "guidance counselor" and employee of the SEL (Scientologie espace liberté) bookstore.
* Max Barbault, employer of Nelly Reziga, alleged to have given her a personality test and obliged her to take a communication course, before firing her. It was revealed during today's proceedings that he is now deceased.
* Four other individuals.
* Association spirituelle de l'Eglise de Scientologie
* SEL (Scientologie espace liberté) bookstore

Plaintiffs:

* Aude-Claire Malton, ex-Scientologist, filed a complaint Dec. 22, 1998
* Nelly Reziga, ex-Scientologist, filed a complaint July 8, 1999
* Two other plaintiffs accepted a settlement from the COS.
* Ordre des pharmaciens (Order of Pharmacists)

Edit1: Corrections re Jean-Pierre Brard and Max Barbault.
Edit2: Correction re UNADFI.

Sources:
Un procès crucial pour l'avenir de la Scientologie en France
L'avenir de l'Eglise de scientologie en jeu devant le tribunal correctionnel de Paris - Société - Le Monde.fr
Church of Scientology on trial in France - Yahoo! News
La Scientologie dénonce "un procès en hérésie" - Actualité France - Justice - Radio Europe1
20minutes.ch - Une «hérésie» selon les intéressés - Monde
Métro Montréal - Scientologie en France: ouverture du procès sur fond de polémique

[RolandRB]

Hopefully this will be the tipping point.

Hubbard used to say that "bank follows the line of attack."

Well, I guess thst makes it ok to be real "banky" about the cult.

Hopefully other countries will follow this example and burn them.

Dart

Hi Dart,

much as I would like this to be the beginning of the end of the cult in Europe, I doubt that will happen. There is mention that the Paris prosecutor wanted to drop the case. The case is continuing anyway but if the cult members are found guilty and the cult appeals then case against them then the case is almost certain to be dropped. You get these popularist things done in France to please the public but everyone knows that it will fail in the end. But do not be concerned. The stories coming out of the cult show it to be self-destructing quite nicely and it is only a matter of waiting and enjoying the show.

[DCAnon]

Need moar popcorn

[Dulloldfart]

Hi Dart,

much as I would like this to be the beginning of the end of the cult in Europe, I doubt that will happen. There is mention that the Paris prosecutor wanted to drop the case. The case is continuing anyway but if the cult members are found guilty and the cult appeals then case against them then the case is almost certain to be dropped. You get these popularist things done in France to please the public but everyone knows that it will fail in the end. But do not be concerned. The stories coming out of the cult show it to be self-destructing quite nicely and it is only a matter of waiting and enjoying the show.

But if they are found guilty and banned and imprisoned, and they appeal, aren't they still banned and in prison while the appeal wends its lengthy way through the mists of time?

Paul

[FinallyFree]

TR's ARE OUT!!! CRAMMING OFFICER - get Alan Rosenberg into metered cramming STAT!!!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/scientology-stands-trial-in-france-20090526-bm6z.html

OH HAPPY DAY!!!! :happydance: :buzzin: Looks like the French are tougher than us Americans originally thought! I vote BLOCK PARTY at lronhubbard way if we succeed in banning $ilontolgy in France. :dance3: :hifive: :cheerleader: :party: :party: :thewave: :headspin: :cake: :anon: :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :beer:

[8-8008]

Finally Free,

Thanks this is great. I love it.

[Free to shine]

From WWP http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-media/french-trial-media-46255/11/


Source: Ces patrons qui perdent la tête pour la scientologie | Tribune de Genève

Quick translation:

Bosses who lose their head over Scientology
Bad moments for the sect before the Correctional Tribunal

JEAN-NOËL CUÉNOD PARIS | 28.05.2009 | 00:01

It was "Boss day" at the trial of the Scientology sect. Yesterday [May 27], the twelfth Correctional Chamber of the Paris Tribunal heard about two very different business leaders, both with a common passion for the Church of Scientology, which stands accused as a legal entity, along with seven of its directors, of organized fraud.

The first boss is now deceased, but Régine, his former employee, has maintained her participation as a civil party against the sect. This plumpish blonde mother is one of the rare plaintiffs with the moral strength to face the ordeal of the trial.

"Do you cheat on your husband?"

This plaintiff, now in her fifties, is not lacking in character. Looking slightly ill at ease in her black trouser suit, Régine described the pressure she endured: "Two months after being hired as sales associate for the real estate agency belonging to B., I was surprised by the fact that the salary I was promised did not match the sum I was paid. I spoke about this to my boss, who replied that it came from me, that there were problems. But I could resolve these problems by taking a communication course. Without mentioning Scientology. I found out that this course was given by the sect when I went to the address he gave me."

Régine noticed that the questionnaire she had to fill in resembled the test she took before she was hired, a test which she called "looney" at the hearing. And improper: she was asked whether she cheated on her husband! Régine refused to go further. Her boss was furious. He explained all the benefit she would get from the sect. B. became insistent, insulting, and threatening. Tired of resisting, she took two other courses. But she categorically refused to join the sect. Her professional life became hell. Her boss would not leave her alone and even harassed her when she was not working. Finally, seeing that Régine would never become a Scientologist, he fired her and evicted her from her apartment.

The case of the second boss, A., is particularly spectacular. Summoned as a witness, he preferred not to show up. It was his family that filed a complaint against Scientology. A. was at the head of a prosperous business in Britanny which specialized in prototypes of synthetic material. As a Scientologist, this company chairman poured considerable sums of money into the sect, up to 12% of the total payroll.

Scientology finally refunded 74,661 Euros, but later, A. again withdrew 76,000 Euros from his company for three organizations dependent on the sect. The company's workers eventually went on strike against their boss. The company has since been sold.

In addition, A. gave the sect more than 150,000 Euros from his family budget.

[FinallyFree]

From WWP http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-media/french-trial-media-46255/11/

I hear the damn wall cracking..... I expect a flood. :coolwink:

[Lucretia]

Thanks for the information re France FTS. Here's hoping...

Try as I might, I cannot find any reference to the court case in our local paper in South Australia. The Advertiser used to be a very vocal critic of the sect, but it is rare to see anything about $cn these days. This is especially interesting, as just two weeks ago, the leader of the opposition in SA got seriously roasted for taking the premier to task over donations FROM Applied Scholastics as a front group for $cn (where they were supposed to get $20K from is..well...!) for special consideration of some sort. The papers turned out to be forgeries, so it was all a storm in a treacup. But, I would have thought that the trial in France would have been particularly interesting for our little no-news state. The silence however, is deafening.

I don't mean to highjack the thread - I just find it a bit mysterious. Maybe OSA has got some dirt.

[Free to shine]

Todat Tonight does it again!

The video isn't up yet, but this is a transcript of the show tonight in Australia. Interesting there is a senator who wants more investigation!
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/5615441/general/scientology-fraud


Scientology fraud

* Reporter: Bryan Seymour
* Broadcast Date: May 29, 2009

The church of Scientology is fighting one of the biggest battles in its 50-year history.

Forget Xenu the alien overlord and Tom Cruise's bizarre outbursts, this time they're in court facing serious fraud charges.

A woman in France alleges she was manipulated into handing over her life savings.

Bryan Seymour reports the case has ignited questions here about how Scientology minds its own business.

Scientology is under siege.

"Well in Germany Scientology isn't recognised as a religion and in France it's leaders are facing fraud charges," said Nick Xenophon, the Independent Federal Senator from South Australia.

In Paris a court will decide if Scientology fraudulently manipulated a woman into handing over $36,000.

"The only purpose of Scientology is to take money from people," said the French prosecutor in the case. He is seeking to have Scientology's leaders found guilty and fined over ten million dollars and to have the group banned from France altogether.

The French spokeswoman for Scientology was blunt in her assessment of the case: "�it's nothing really, it's bullshit really."

She added that the judge may have been influenced "by the media and the climate" to allow the trial to proceed, which is a serious and unfounded allegation.

Originally four people were accusing Scientology of fraud but two of them came to a financial settlement with the organisation.

The woman at the centre of the trial says she was walking past Scientology headquarters in Paris in 1998. She was approached in the street and offered a free personality test.

"She was humiliated and defrauded for a long time, she bought cases full of expensive books and cassettes all cloaked in this goal of self-improvement to become this incredible person," said the French Prosecutor trying the case

Not surprisingly, the test revealed she had shortfalls. She says she was told Scientology had the cure and was then scammed into buying books, courses, vitamins and even an electrometer, which is supposedly able to measure mental energy.

Scientology says the case is one of religious discrimination rather than the alleged fraud leading to members handing over their life savings.

"There's no witch-hunt, France respects freedom but even with religious freedom France can't ignore people breaking the law, if you have religious freedom if you can't do things that are above the law," said a French Government official.

After a nine year inquiry into the group, a French judge declared Scientology "...is first and foremost a commercial business."

Prosecutors allege the director of Scientology in France, Alain Rosenberg, and six other top officials preyed on vulnerable would-be followers "...with the goal of seizing their fortune by exerting a psychological hold."

Today Tonight were contacted by a woman who claimed she had been recruited into Scientology as a child and manipulated into handing over a vast sum of money. When Today Tonight approached Scientology to respond to her claims, they said the woman had signed a confidentiality contract with them and they sent their lawyers scurrying to court seeking an injunction on the story.

But that's not why Today Tonight decided not to show the interview. Her family asked that the the interview not be aired - and Today Tonight agree... her best interests should come first.

Federal senator Nick Xenophon says it's time to re-examine Scientology's claims as a religion and to change the laws to force the group to start paying tax.

"We need to have a close look at those laws because I think there's a lot of community concern that an organisation such as Scientology gets the huge benefits of having the tax exempt status as a religion," Senator Xenophon said.

Historically Scientology brands anyone who questions their organisation a religious bigot.

"This is not about religious bigotry, this is about accountability and I think it's pretty cowardly of an organisation to start accusing those that just want to question they way they operate, to make sure what they do is transparent, accountable and fair," Senator Xenophon said.

As always, the church of Scientology declined a request to be interviewed.

No doubt they'll be closely watching what happens in France.

"I think there is a role for regulators, for governments to have a very close look at these tactics because if they don't we'll continue to see more and more of these cases emerging where people's lives are being destroyed because they've handed over their life savings, they've handed over their inheritances to Scientology," Senator Xenophon said.

The cult information and family support network has branded Scientology a cult, not a religion and say ex-members can contact them for help and advice.

[8-8008]

Free to shine,

Nice. I like this article.

Here is mine which came out today. In french, sorry but basically, telling the story about my time in the SO, regging and what I was doing there to get money for the church. And that now I realized how I had been manipulated, harrass.....

See the comment at the end. The person must be a scientologist or OSA because he/she is saying that the stories from former scientologist have no values as they are critical lol. This is funny.

http://www.letelegramme.com/ig/generales/france-monde/france/scientologie-un-ex-cadre-temoigne-29-05-2009-400304.php

[sallydannce]

Free to shine,

Nice. I like this article.

Here is mine which came out today. In french, sorry but basically, telling the story about my time in the SO, regging and what I was doing there to get money for the church. And that now I realized how I had been manipulated, harrass.....

See the comment at the end. The person must be a scientologist or OSA because he/she is saying that the stories from former scientologist have no values as they are critical lol. This is funny.

http://www.letelegramme.com/ig/generales/france-monde/france/scientologie-un-ex-cadre-temoigne-29-05-2009-400304.php

Good for you 8-8008.

The gist of the argument which the commenter will be using is possibly a "study" the church of scientology commissioned from Lonnie D. Kliever, Ph.D.

The paper he wrote for the church is called "The Reliability of Apostate Testimony About New Religious Movements" in which the prof concludes apostates are unreliable persons to listen to. (easy to find on the net)

The church of scientology commissioned this study about 1993 (vague date here) to use to dead agent folk like us. It is quoted by the church but they generally forget to say "we commissioned this professor and he concluded..."

Rule number one: Be very careful with studies which have been commissioned - "paid for". They are slanted towards the requirements of the commissioning body/person (if they are not slanted how in God's name can they be used to the benefit of the commissioning body/person).

Independent research is more ethical. At the very least the opposing view would need to be laid beside this study for a balanced look.

[SchwimmelPuckel]

The argument is obviously nuts! - So the people who actually tried it out are unreliable!?

Hrmmpf.. Well, there are more x-scientllogists than there are active ones.

I saw somewhere that Cult PR claims 45.000 members in France!? - That's a lie.. Dunno if it's useful in court... The purpose of the lie is to appear as a sizeable community to sway public opinion, and by reflexion the court.

:yes:

[sandygirl]

I agree with Schwimmy.

Believe me, if I was thinking about going to a new restaurant and my neighbor told me he got food poisoning from eating there, I would appreciate the heads up and reconsider eating there.

If the "church" is delivering EXACTLY as promised by the founder there would be few exes. I hardly consider someone who got in, worked their ass off, and got out as they recognized the lies of the organization, to be "unreliable". Actually, I think someone "formerly in" has a more valid viewpoint.

[sallydannce]

I agree with Schwimmy.

Believe me, if I was thinking about going to a new restaurant and my neighbor told me he got food poisoning from eating there, I would appreciate the heads up and reconsider eating there.

If the "church" is delivering EXACTLY as promised by the founder there would be few exes. I hardly consider someone who got in, worked their ass off, and got out as they recognized the lies of the organization, to be "unreliable". Actually, I think someone "formerly in" has a more valid viewpoint.

I agree too. I found the study so slanted I had to read it sitting on an angle. :whistling:

There was a sense of indignity. I kept wondering how much the "church" paid him. I wanted to know the background of how he became involved in the study, etc. I wanted to contact him but it would seem he passed away a couple of years ago.

Just another PR tool the church paid for to use against any opposition - those damn pesky apostates.

[Zinjifar]

Obviously the only people capable of evaluating the attractiveness of 16" nails pounded into your eyes are people with 16" nails pounded into their eyes.

Zinj

[Albion]

Coverage of the opening days of the trial at Infinite Complacency:

http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot....s-trial-i.html

[Free to shine]

Coverage of the opening days of the trial at Infinite Complacency:

http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot....s-trial-i.html

Link doesn't work - I'd love more info on the trial.

[Albion]

Sorry: trying again with the Infinite Complacency link...
http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/
...and more to come.

[Brigitte]

Hello everyone, I was checking the Internet to see what was said about the present trial in Paris and found your forum.

I just wanted to add this:

When the judges have reached a verdict, the church of scientology (if condemned, which I hope) will have the possibility to appeal it. The Procureur (like a D.A.) also has this possibility. The appeal is suspensive, i.e. the condemnations won't be applied. Then the case will be judged again before another tribunal, which can take a few years :angry:

The second verdict is without appeal and must be immediately executed.

There is then the possibility of bringing the case before the Cour de cassation. This one will not judge the case but "the law", i.e. if the law has been respected during the judgement (like the Supreme Court?). If the Cour de cassation finds a motive for... cassation, it can decide to send back the parties before another tribunal, or just rectify the mistake if they think it had no bearing on the verdict.

The important fact in this trial is that, for the first time, both the cos and the library of scientology are accused as moral persons. Before that, only natural persons were tried in France. If condemned (as requested) for swindle, they will be disbanded, which means that the cos will be illegal in France.

I hope this is what will happen. And another important thing is that the trial is very mediatised in France, and potential victims are now warned :)

[Albion]

The important fact in this trial is that, for the first time, both the cos and the library of scientology are accused as moral persons. Before that, only natural persons were tried in France. If condemned (as requested) for swindle, they will be disbanded, which means that the cos will be illegal in France.


Just one small thing: in fact, another Scientology organisation in France -- not either of the two on trial presently -- has already been tried and convicted in France as a "personne morale" but not on fraud charges. See Section 20 of Infinite Complacency (http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/05/20-scientology-on-trial-in-france.html).

[Brigitte]

Just one small thing: in fact, another Scientology organisation in France -- not either of the two on trial presently -- has already been tried and convicted in France as a "personne morale" but not on fraud charges. See Section 20 of Infinite Complacency (http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/05/20-scientology-on-trial-in-france.html).

You are right, I had missed that one. The non-respect of the regulations on data is not serious enough to justify closing an association.

But if the cos is condemned for organized fraud, it will certainly be disbanded, which is the "punishment" for associations (and societies) having been organized with the intent to commit a crime.

[ExVet]

Interestingly, Hubbard himself was convicted of fraud in France in absentia back in 1978.

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/catholicsentinel-conviction-031778.htm

[Dulloldfart]

Hello everyone, I was checking the Internet to see what was said about the present trial in Paris and found your forum.

I just wanted to add this:

When the judges have reached a verdict, the church of scientology (if condemned, which I hope) will have the possibility to appeal it. The Procureur (like a D.A.) also has this possibility. The appeal is suspensive, i.e. the condemnations won't be applied. Then the case will be judged again before another tribunal, which can take a few years :angry:

The second verdict is without appeal and must be immediately executed.

There is then the possibility of bringing the case before the Cour de cassation. This one will not judge the case but "the law", i.e. if the law has been respected during the judgement (like the Supreme Court?). If the Cour de cassation finds a motive for... cassation, it can decide to send back the parties before another tribunal, or just rectify the mistake if they think it had no bearing on the verdict.

The important fact in this trial is that, for the first time, both the cos and the library of scientology are accused as moral persons. Before that, only natural persons were tried in France. If condemned (as requested) for swindle, they will be disbanded, which means that the cos will be illegal in France.

I hope this is what will happen. And another important thing is that the trial is very mediatised in France, and potential victims are now warned :)

Merci beaucoup, Brigitte.

Paul

[sallydannce]

Interestingly, Hubbard himself was convicted of fraud in France in absentia back in 1978.

Least we forget. Thanks for this ExVet.

I also found another link on the history of scientology's legal issues in France:

http://www.agoravox.com/article.php3?id_article=9987


Scientology’s Hubbard Convicted of Fraud in France, 1978

As yet another fraud trial opens for Scientology in France this week, it seems an appropriate time to to review the cult’s legal problems in that country over the years. Few people know that its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, was conviced of fraud there and sentenced to imprisonment.
And before I slip off to my next French language class, a warm welcome to you Brigitte. :welcome:

[8-8008]

Nice those articles. I sent them off to my contacts in the media here. They love them and giving them new ideas for stories.

[Albion]

Part three of Paris trial coverage up at Infinite Complacency.
http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/

[8-8008]

Thanks Albion,

This is a great article.

[Free to shine]

From WWP


Scientologie - "Ça me paraît charlatanesque!" | Actualités au quotidien France-Soir

Quick translation:

Scientology - "It sounds like quackery to me!"

Sandrine Briclot, Wednesday June 3, 2009 04:00

Are the vitamins taken by Scientology followers during their "purification program" food supplements or medication not controlled by the Order of Pharmacists?

The sealed packages give off such a strong odour that the presiding judge of the 12th Chamber of the Paris Correctional Tribunal --apologizing in advance -- had them placed on the ledge of a window in the courtroom. Yesterday, the court clerk delicately handled the garbage bag containing Marie-Aude Malton's vitamin packets and unwrapped what is left of the "doses" the plaintiff had to take during a "purification cure" at the Dianetics Center of the Church of Scientology on Legendre Street in Paris in 1998. At that time, the 32-year-old woman was having difficulty coping with the breakup of a relationship and succumbed to the theories put forward by Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, prodded by followers in the Parisian headquarters. After a few months of courses, Marie-Aude Malton gave up, regretting that she had spent all her savings -- about 140,000 francs (approximately 22,000 Euros), and filed a complaint. Eleven years later, she is on the bench of the civil parties in a trial for "organized fraud" and "illegal practice of pharmacy" against certain members of the church and of the spiritual association.

"Vitamins A, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, B12, C, D and H, minerals such as magnesium, potassium, calcium, manganese, iron, copper, and zinc", recited the presiding judge, Sophie-Hélène Château. A cocktail recommended for the program's subjects, who also have to alternate jogging, saunas, and showers during fifteen days to "purify their body and their spirit". "This is a religious practice comparable to the fasts imposed by other religions," protested Aline Favre, who is responsible for the purification process since 1994 at the center on Legendre Street. Today she is one of the defendants in the trial and she was in the witness stand. An "active member" of the Church of Scientology, she tested the method and recalls that she was "rid of any mental fog". However, she had "no recollection" of hearing students complain, as Madame Malton, of feeling "drained" -- she had lost 4 kilograms in 13 days -- or of having had "stomach cramps" caused by the vitamins.

"The person is asked to go see a doctor before the purification procedure," stated Aline Favre. "It's up to him to decide after seeing the book." The book is by Ron Hubbard, is entitled "Clear Body, Clear Mind", and indicates the doses to ingest. A doctor gave Madame Malton a certificate of eligibility to follow the program at his office... on Legendre Street.

"Are these vitamins 'food supplements' or '"medication'?" asked the presiding judge. A pharmacist and a legal specialist from the French agency for the security of health products (AFSSAPS) gave their answers yesterday: "Consumed in such high doses, these vitamins are similar to medication," and one is even "listed in the schedule of poisonous substances." "For this kind of use, we'd like to have validation by a doctor," said the pharmacist. The Scientology purification program? "It sounds like quackery to me!" exclaimed the specialist. The trial continues today with testimony by experts.

[Free to shine]

Scientologie: l'électromètre, arnaque ou véritable instrument religieux? - dépêches AFP - la-Croix.com



Translation:

Scientology trial: The electrometer at the heart of the debates

June 3, 2009 19:56

Paris (AFP) - On Wednesday, the Paris Correctional Tribunal attempted to determine if the electrometer, sold and used by the Church of Scientology, is an instrument possessing true scientific value or a "hoax" in a scheme to take money from followers.

For the Church of Scientology, on trial for organized fraud and illegal practice of pharmacy, the electometer or "electro-psychometer" is an electrical device that allows parishioners to "locate areas of distress and spiritual torment."

Presented as scientific by Scientology, the electrometer is sold to members for about 4,800 Euros, ten times more than its production cost.

According to old expert analysis reports introduced into the proceedings, "the device is nothing more than a hoax", lacking in "seriousness" and "unfit to accurately measure any physical phenomenon whatsoever."

This opinion was partially contradicted on Wednesday by two electronics experts called by the Church of Scientology.

For Bernard Denis-Laroque and Philippe Ripoche, two recognized expert witnesses, "the device does measure something: the variation of electrical resistance".

After giving assurance that he has no connection with Scientology, Mr. Ripoche confessed that he was "surprised" by certain observations: "when persons remembered painful memories, their electrical resistance dropped significantly," he said. According to him, the electrometer does indeed measure "a physiological phenomenon".

However, when asked about Scientology literature concerning the electrometer, the engineer's response was much less favorable to the organization: for him, it's a "far-fetched, ambitious, and laughable logorrhea".

The electrometer gives "an indication of stress, possibly", but with "absolute certainty, no": "it seems unlikely this device could be used as an aid for psychotherapy," he added.

[Free to shine]

More from Jonny Jacobsen's blog.

The Paris Trial IV
Day 3 (May 27): the second plaintiff in the Paris trial of Scientology told the court how her employer put her under ever-increasing pressure to take the movement’s courses.
http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/06/paris-trial-iv.html

Friday, 5 June 2009
25 The Paris Trial V (Day 3: May 27) Scientology’s techniques abuse the transference process familiar to all therapists, a psychiatrist told the Paris trial of the movement and six of its members.
http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/06/paris-trial-v.html

[Alanzo]

This is the exact kind of trial that is needed in the United States, where all the top leaders of the Church of Scientology can be subpoenaed and made to account for their fraud and abuse against the general public.

One day, justice will come for Scientology in the United States.

[Albion]

The latest posting completes coverage of the first week of the trial: http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/

Day 3 (May 27): a Paris court heard how a company director's massive spending on Scientology put his business at risk.

In answer to a question from a reader: these reports are first-hand from the court, not a round-up of the French press coverage.

[Free to shine]

The latest posting completes coverage of the first week of the trial: http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/

Day 3 (May 27): a Paris court heard how a company director's massive spending on Scientology put his business at risk.

In answer to a question from a reader: these reports are first-hand from the court, not a round-up of the French press coverage.

You're doing a terrific job! :thumbsup:

[8-8008]

Here is a link with few videos in ENGLISH from a french anti-scientology site :

http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/video-debate.htm#france24

Enjoy

[sandygirl]

Very interesting videos. I know this is quite a serious case but yet, I have a bad case of the giggles every time I hear......."The SPIRITUAL Association of Scientology Celebrity Center."

Sometimes the cult's ploys are so lame I can't help but have a laugh.

Thank you for the updates!!!

[Lohan2008]

[QUOTE=8-8008;252445]Here is a link with few videos in ENGLISH from a french anti-scientology site :
http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/video-debate.htm#france24

Paris Live Debate: Should Scientology be banned ?
France 24 - June 7, 2009

Jacques Myard, French MP (UMP), Member of a parliamentary study group on sects
Rick Ross, Executive Director, Ross Institute, New Jersey (Cult Movements)
Raphael Liogier, Professor of sociology, IEP of Aix-en-Provence, Marseille, France
Jens Tingleff, Internet Activist

5x 6 min videos :goodjob:

[Carmel]

I just got a text from a friend here in Oz who was listening to some French news, and she said that the CofS has lost the case in France! Woah Baby!!!

Can't find any scoop on google yet though - Keep your eyes peeled!

Edit: Can anyone verify this?

[Alanzo]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526490,00.html

Prosecutor Calls for Ban of Scientology in France

Monday, June 15, 2009 http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif


Print (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,526490,00.html)
ShareThis (javascript:void(0)) PARIS — The prosecutor in a French trial involving the Church of Scientology has asked that the group be banned in France and handed a hefty fine if convicted on fraud and other charges.
The persecutor's office has asked that fines of euro2 million ($2.77 million) be levied against the group and its French bookstore, if the two entities are found guilty on charges of organized fraud and illegal pharmaceutical activity. Such fines are exceptionally high by French standards.
Suspended prison sentences have also been requested against six of the group's French leaders, who are also being tried.
The group, considered a sect in France, has faced prosecution and difficulties in registering its activities in many countries.
The Paris trial began late last month.

[Nurse Pinch]

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/274189

In an unprecedented move that has taken France and Scientologists completely by surprise, the Scientology trial has taken a new turn, and the severity of the sentences being demanded is leading commentators to envision the end of Scientology in France.
The Public Prosecutor in the Scientology trial being held in Paris has demanded that the Church be made illegal in France. The Church is accused of organised fraud, as are some of its organisations, who may face fines of up to two million Euros.

The trial is the result of a joint court case brought by several individuals who have accused the Church of abusive and fraudulent financial practices as well as mental abuse.

The Prosecutor’s trial representatives, Maud Morel-Coujard et Nicolas Baïeto, are also said by French daily Le Figaro to have demanded today that the Spiritual Association of the Church, ‘Celebrity Centre,’ and the Church’s library receive fines of 2 million euros each.

These are extremely heavy sentence recommendations, even for France, a heavily secular country, which has never hidden its suspicions concerning the Church of Scientology.

At the same time, a 150 000€ fine, four years suspended prison and five years of privation of civic rights were demanded for the head of the Celebrity Centre, Alain Rosenberg. Suspended prison sentences and heavy fines were also recommended for five other individual Scientology Church members.

This decisive trial phase means that the Church of Scientology may soon face obligatory dissolution in France, after a trial which has seen it and its members facing the sort of tough questioning it has not experienced up to now.


Pinchy

[nozeno]

http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/viva-la-france.jpg

[Alanzo]

From Pinchy's article:


...This decisive trial phase means that the Church of Scientology may soon face obligatory dissolution in France, after a trial which has seen it and its members facing the sort of tough questioning it has not experienced up to now.

See bolded part above.

Looks like the real questions are finally beginning to be asked of the Church of Scientology which reveal their real character.

Finally!

Let's see the same thing in the United States, where Davey can be on the stand to answer.

[Wisened One]

YEAH!!!! :happydance: YEAH! :hifive: :woohoo:

[CornPie]

Removed, sorry I spoke to soon.

[FlunkedForLaughing]

(Originally from Nouvelobs.com. Selectively copied/pasted from WWP)

"The dissolution of the two main structures of the French Church of Scientology has been requested by the prosecution on Monday 15 June. The Church was sued by the Correctional Court of Paris for organised fraud."

"The two prosecutors also called for judges to order the Spiritual Association of the Church of Scientology and its library to each pay a fine of 2 million."

"The Correctional Court of Paris on Tuesday and Wednesday will hear arguments from the defense prior to his decision under advisement to several weeks."

(Nouvelobs.com)


It looks like it's not quite over yet. We need to wait a little longer to get the final decision. I have a good feeling about this.

FFL

[Carmel]

(Originally from Nouvelobs.com. Selectively copied/pasted from WWP)

"The dissolution of the two main structures of the French Church of Scientology has been requested by the prosecution on Monday 15 June. The Church was sued by the Correctional Court of Paris for organised fraud."

"The two prosecutors also called for judges to order the Spiritual Association of the Church of Scientology and its library to each pay a fine of 2 million."

"The Correctional Court of Paris on Tuesday and Wednesday will hear arguments from the defense prior to his decision under advisement to several weeks."

(Nouvelobs.com)


It looks like it's not quite over yet. We need to wait a little longer to get the final decision. I have a good feeling about this.

FFL

Yeah, clearly not over yet, and nor will it be when they hand down the 'first' decision ('appeals' and all that).

Sorry folks, for the false alarm. (I'll keep my mouth shut next time. :redface:)

[Albion]

I've put a complete summary of what the prosecutors requested up at Infinite Complacency (http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/).

jj

[Dulloldfart]

That was from the prosecutor's summing up. The defence has not yet made a summation. A decision by the court is expected in the autumn, so don't break open the booze yet.

Paul

[RolandRB]

That was from the prosecutor's summing up. The defence has not yet made a summation. A decision by the court is expected in the autumn, so don't break open the booze yet.

Paul

And then they will appeal it and another year will go by in which time all the transcripts go missing.

[Lohan2008]

any updates on trial ?

[Eddie]

The defence case closed on Wednesday. The judges are the ones who make a decision in this case and they are currently taking all the evidence under consideration. A verdict is not expected until late October.