Scientologists CANNOT answer these questions.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Scientologists pride themselves on knowing the answer to EVERYTHING. They have an instant "reference" on anything that is happening, good or bad.

But why are there some questions that they cannot answer? Here are the first few that came to mind. There are lots & lots more, so please add all the unanswered questions you encountered during your visit to the amusement park called ScientologyWorld.

THINGS SCIENTOLOGISTS DO NOT HAVE AN EASY, CERTAIN & SNAPPY-FAST ANSWER TO:

Why is it that no Clears have perfect recall and other abilities Ron guaranteed in Dianetics?

Why does it take years and vast sums of money to go clear, but when you are auditing a "BT" it only takes a few moments to clear them with one or two commands? ("What are you?" etc.)

Why after spending $400,000 and dedicating decades to become OT, not one Scientologist in the last 60 years has been able to demonstrate the ability called "exteriorization"? (ps: And how come a lowly BT can go exterior with no money and only a couple auditing commands?)

Why did Ron have to kill his own body in order to operate exterior and conduct his research? Can't an Operating Thetan go exterior and "operate"? (ps: and how did miscavige happen to know that "This level is beyond anything any one of us ever imagined" in his briefing to Scientologists on hubbard's death? Someone would have to know what it was in order to say that it was beyond what we imagined, wouldn't they?)

Why did hubbard guarantee the auditing tech absolutely could cure the mentally ill and resolve and undo what caused a person to become an SP....and then write strictly enforced policies which absolutely forbid the mentally ill and SPs from ever getting any auditing?

Why does the public and media dislike and distrust Scientology so much if their PR tech is so perfect?

Why can't tens of thousands of OTs be cause over a relatively small number of anonymous protesters that have never had any auditing or training? (what powers do these wogs possess that is kryptonite to an army of scientology "supermen" OTs?)

Why has Scientology spent hundreds of millions of dollars promoting itself the past 60 years, but never did even one video that conclusively proved what a CLEAR or OPERATING THETAN can do? Why is the world supposed to listen and not look at all the cosmic claims hubbard made when his own policies comand everyone to "LOOK, DON'T LISTEN"?

Why has not one single person died from exposure to the "booby-trapped" Xenu story (or even gotten pneumonia), when it broke the back of and nearly killed ron the OT?

........whoa! I am just getting warmed up, I think I could keep writing these quizzical conundrums for the next 24 hours! Yikes, 24 hour rule! Somebody better red-tag my folder! (LOL)

[Ted]

Scientologists pride themselves on knowing the answer to EVERYTHING. They have an instant "reference" on anything that is happening, good or bad.

But why are there some questions that they cannot answer? Here are the first few that came to mind. There are lots & lots more, so please add all the unanswered questions you encountered during your visit to the amusement park called ScientologyWorld.

THINGS SCIENTOLOGISTS DO NOT HAVE AN EASY, CERTAIN & SNAPPY-FAST ANSWER TO:

Why is it that no Clears have perfect recall and other abilities Ron guaranteed in Dianetics? Out Ethics! :thumbsup:

Why does it take years and vast sums of money to go clear, but when you are auditing a "BT" it only takes a few moments to clear them with one or two commands? ("What are you?" etc.) The BTs were stuck in an incident for a very long time. Therefore they have just one Out Ethics situation to clean up and no timetrack of Out Ethics situations like the rest of us. :thumbsup:

Why after spending $400,000 and dedicating decades to become OT, not one Scientologist in the last 60 years has been able to demonstrate the ability called "exteriorization"? (ps: And how come a lowly BT can go exterior with no money and only a couple auditing commands?) Duh! You can't see thetans! If a thetan could be seen, that would be OUT ETHICS! :thumbsup:

Why did Ron have to kill his own body in order to operate exterior and conduct his research? Kill is such a harsh word. Let's say he just had to turn it off, you know, shut it down. It became Out Ethics being connected to his body, and by association, being connected to bodies in general. Can't an Operating Thetan go exterior and "operate"? (ps: and how did miscavige happen to know that " DM is NOT Out Ethics! That's how he knew! :dieslaughing: This level is beyond anything any one of us ever imagined" in his briefing to Scientologists on hubbard's death? Someone would have to know what it was in order to say that it was beyond what we imagined, wouldn't they?) Now, now, let's not use observation and logic to disclose absurdities. It would be Out Ethics to suggest that the emperor has no clothes. :thumbsup:

Why did hubbard guarantee the auditing tech absolutely could cure the mentally ill and resolve and undo what caused a person to become an SP....and then write strictly enforced policies which absolutely forbid the mentally ill and SPs from ever getting any auditing? To audit the mentally ill and SPs would be Out Ethics! :thumbsup:

Why does the public and media dislike and distrust Scientology so much if their PR tech is so perfect? The Out Ethics SPs are in charge of the media. :thumbsup:

Why can't tens of thousands of OTs be cause over a relatively small number of anonymous protesters that have never had any auditing or training? (what powers do these wogs possess that is kryptonite to an army of scientology "supermen" OTs?) Good question. I am glad you asked. It would be Out Ethics for a group of OTs to have any dealings with a group of cur-dog SPs yapping at the wheels of our fire engine. We have a fire to put out! It is more important that OTs spend time on course and auditing and contributing to our building funds. :thumbsup:

Why has Scientology spent hundreds of millions of dollars promoting itself the past 60 years, but never did even one video that conclusively proved what a CLEAR or OPERATING THETAN can do? That would be case evaluation. As such it would be Out Ethics! Why is the world supposed to listen and not look at all the cosmic claims hubbard made when his own policies comand everyone to "LOOK, DON'T LISTEN"? People who have that misunderstanding are Out Ethics! Look, don't listen is correct policy.

Why has not one single person died from exposure to the "booby-trapped" Xenu story (or even gotten pneumonia), when it broke the back of and nearly killed ron the OT? The people who were unauthorized to read that story are of low awareness and Out Ethics! Of course they would not have sufficient reality on the Xenu story to affect them.

........whoa! I am just getting warmed up, I think I could keep writing these quizzical conundrums for the next 24 hours! Yikes, 24 hour rule! Somebody better red-tag my folder! (LOL)


In the future you can check the FAQ first. Here it is: There is but one answer: Out Ethics!

Brought to you by Scientologists for Maintaining Friendly Relations with the Environment :D

P.S. We are not a front group as that would be Out Ethics! :thumbsup:

[Telepathetic]

You've got overts and withholds and you're probably an PTS or an SP...that's all I have to say to you buddy! I refuse to answer those questions you...you bigot. You're a religious bigot. What are your crimes anyway, buddy? How many babies have you raped today? Well?!!

Did I get that right or did I miss something? :coolwink:

Good post Hell!!!

TP

[ILived1984!]

In the future you can check the FAQ first. Here it is: There is but one answer: Out Ethics!

Brought to you by Scientologists for Maintaining Friendly Relations with the Environment :D

P.S. We are not a front group as that would be Out Ethics! :thumbsup:

:lol: :hysterical:

Yep, that is the end all answer for Scns!!!!!!!!

[Iknowtoomuch]

Why didn't DM go over stats at the last event?

Like he usually does every year.:D

[HelluvaHoax!]

Originally Posted by Ted:
In the future you can check the FAQ first. Here it is: There is but one answer: Out Ethics!

Brought to you by Scientologists for Maintaining Friendly Relations with the Environment.

P.S. We are not a front group as that would be Out Ethics!


Originally Posted by ILived1984!:
Yep, that is the end all answer for Scns!!!!!!!!

Oh my God!! You just handled all my questions!!!! Hey that's fantastic! That's so simple! Out Ethics is IT!! It is the answer to EVERYTHING!!! I can feel my space expanding infinitely...I feel so calm....I am soaring to new undreamed of heights of happiness. I now have complete certainty about my eternity!!! I stand and salute you!! I scream "HIP HIP HOO----"

Wait a second!!!

That brings up another question. (scratch that thingie about "complete certainty about my eternity") I'm not feeling so good any more.

QUESTION: IF RON GUARANTEED THAT ALL THETANS ARE BASICALLY GOOD AND EXTREMELY ETHICAL ONCE THEY HAVE GOTTEN RID OF THEIR EVIL REACTIVE MIND, WHY ARE ALL THOSE CLEARS AND OTS THAT RON PERSONALLY MADE (AND THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHERS THAT ORGS MADE) STILL OUT ETHICS, BLOWN OR DECLARED ?

(maybe the answer is that my question itself is out-ethics, and is not therefore even a question??????????????)

[dixi88]

Scientologists pride themselves on knowing the answer to EVERYTHING. They have an instant "reference" on anything that is happening, good or bad.

But why are there some questions that they cannot answer? Here are the first few that came to mind. There are lots & lots more, so please add all the unanswered questions you encountered during your visit to the amusement park called ScientologyWorld.

THINGS SCIENTOLOGISTS DO NOT HAVE AN EASY, CERTAIN & SNAPPY-FAST ANSWER TO:

Why is it that no Clears have perfect recall and other abilities Ron guaranteed in Dianetics?

Why does it take years and vast sums of money to go clear, but when you are auditing a "BT" it only takes a few moments to clear them with one or two commands? ("What are you?" etc.)

Why after spending $400,000 and dedicating decades to become OT, not one Scientologist in the last 60 years has been able to demonstrate the ability called "exteriorization"? (ps: And how come a lowly BT can go exterior with no money and only a couple auditing commands?)

Why did Ron have to kill his own body in order to operate exterior and conduct his research? Can't an Operating Thetan go exterior and "operate"? (ps: and how did miscavige happen to know that "This level is beyond anything any one of us ever imagined" in his briefing to Scientologists on hubbard's death? Someone would have to know what it was in order to say that it was beyond what we imagined, wouldn't they?)

Why did hubbard guarantee the auditing tech absolutely could cure the mentally ill and resolve and undo what caused a person to become an SP....and then write strictly enforced policies which absolutely forbid the mentally ill and SPs from ever getting any auditing?

Why does the public and media dislike and distrust Scientology so much if their PR tech is so perfect?

Why can't tens of thousands of OTs be cause over a relatively small number of anonymous protesters that have never had any auditing or training? (what powers do these wogs possess that is kryptonite to an army of scientology "supermen" OTs?)

Why has Scientology spent hundreds of millions of dollars promoting itself the past 60 years, but never did even one video that conclusively proved what a CLEAR or OPERATING THETAN can do? Why is the world supposed to listen and not look at all the cosmic claims hubbard made when his own policies comand everyone to "LOOK, DON'T LISTEN"?

Why has not one single person died from exposure to the "booby-trapped" Xenu story (or even gotten pneumonia), when it broke the back of and nearly killed ron the OT?

........whoa! I am just getting warmed up, I think I could keep writing these quizzical conundrums for the next 24 hours! Yikes, 24 hour rule! Somebody better red-tag my folder! (LOL)

A question I asked Gold when someone called to sell the Basics was "Where does all the money go? In any organization all contributing members have a right to see a yearly financial balance sheet, stating the world GI, with where the allocations went, including all disbursements, and money in reserves. Where did the IAS money go? The guy got enturbulated, and said it went to some psych project. I said that may well be correct, but its only a verbal generality. He told me he never had a call like this before and he is going to end it. He made an honest call to me to tell about the work the Sea Org went through to release the basics and I just cut across the call with entheta regarding finances and he is going to end the call. I said OK, you called me I didn't call you.
That was the last call I got from Scientologists.
Was I out of line? At the beginning of the call there was a high enthusiasm tone in the background (people being really happy) ,and when I injected the finance question, the background sound stopped. It must have been a tape playing, and not real. Thats my unanswered question.

[HelluvaHoax!]

A question I asked Gold when someone called to sell the Basics was "Where does all the money go? In any organization all contributing members have a right to see a yearly financial balance sheet, stating the world GI, with where the allocations went, including all disbursements, and money in reserves. Where did the IAS money go? The guy got enturbulated, and said it went to some psych project. I said that may well be correct, but its only a verbal generality. He told me he never had a call like this before and he is going to end it. He made an honest call to me to tell about the work the Sea Org went through to release the basics and I just cut across the call with entheta regarding finances and he is going to end the call. I said OK, you called me I didn't call you.
That was the last call I got from Scientologists.
Was I out of line? At the beginning of the call there was a high enthusiasm tone in the background (people being really happy) ,and when I injected the finance question, the background sound stopped. It must have been a tape playing, and not real. Thats my unanswered question.


Excellent question!

I am guessing that since the CoS refuses (or cannot) answer a simple common-sense question about what they need your money for, it means:

* Your money is needed to protect and advance Scientology
* Specifically to get and keep in all the points of Keeping Scientology Working
* Specifically "KNOWING IT IS CORRECT" (the technology)

That's where your donation comes in.

You apparently do NOT know that "IT IS CORRECT" since you are questioning senior scientologists about their on-policy actions.

Therefore money is needed to "hammer out of existence" people like YOU asking questions like that. Kind of like making advance payments on your own funeral.

So... Do not ask for whom the IAS tolls, it tolls for thee.

toll  [tohl] –noun
1. a payment or fee exacted by the state, the local authorities, etc., for some right or privilege, as for passage along a road or over a bridge.
2. the extent of loss, damage, suffering, etc., resulting from some action or calamity: The toll was 300 persons dead or missing.
3. a tax, duty, or tribute, as for services or use of facilities.
4. a payment made for a long-distance telephone call.
5. (formerly, in England) the right to take such payment.
6. a compensation for services, as for transportation or transmission.
7. grain retained by a miller in payment for grinding.
–verb (used with object)
8. to collect (something) as toll.
9. to impose a tax or toll on (a person).
–verb (used without object)
10. to collect toll; levy toll

[La La Lou Lou]

dixi88, well handled.

Youre not dumb are you!

If we all do the same we might just acheive peace on earth:eyeroll:

[CornPie]

...Where does all the money go? In any organization all contributing members have a right to see a yearly financial balance sheet...
Where cOs/CIA money goes will never be published. Not even to the President of the US, nor members of congress, who vote on the budget.

[alex]

Nobody knows where cOs/CIA money goes, not even the President of the US, nor members of congress, who vote on the budget.

Actually cornie, SOR (Sea Org Reserves) is/are a registered corporate entity/s, and most of the money goes to lichtenstien.

Google is your friend.


Nesta Investments Ltd
SOR Services (UK) Ltd
International SOR Trust, SOR Management Services, Ltd., Scientology International Missions Trust, and International Scientology Religious Trust.

[Ted]

Oh my God!! You just handled all my questions!!!! Hey that's fantastic! That's so simple! Out Ethics is IT!! It is the answer to EVERYTHING!!! I can feel my space expanding infinitely...I feel so calm....I am soaring to new undreamed of heights of happiness. I now have complete certainty about my eternity!!! I stand and salute you!! I scream "HIP HIP HOO----"

Wait a second!!!

That brings up another question. (scratch that thingie about "complete certainty about my eternity") I'm not feeling so good any more.

QUESTION: IF RON GUARANTEED THAT ALL THETANS ARE BASICALLY GOOD AND EXTREMELY ETHICAL ONCE THEY HAVE GOTTEN RID OF THEIR EVIL REACTIVE MIND, WHY ARE ALL THOSE CLEARS AND OTS THAT RON PERSONALLY MADE (AND THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHERS THAT ORGS MADE) STILL OUT ETHICS, BLOWN OR DECLARED ?

(maybe the answer is that my question itself is out-ethics, and is not therefore even a question??????????????)


Grasshopper, "Man is basically good." So it is written. :arose:

A thetan basically is. :angel: :devil: :redface: :D

To receive truth one must pose proper question. :thumbsup:

A blow is an unauthorized departure. Free beings come and go as they please, no authorization needed. Unjustly labeling someone "out-ethics" or declared SP is just a make-wrong. It has hurt the organizations far greater than it could hurt the free beings.

Somewhere LRH said that we are not trying to make good little boys and girls. We are trying to make effective beings. Ethics as an evaluation and a function came later.

[Ladybird]

Actually cornie, SOR (Sea Org Reserves) is/are a registered corporate entity/s, and most of the money goes to lichtenstien.

Google is your friend.


Nesta Investments Ltd
SOR Services (UK) Ltd
International SOR Trust, SOR Management Services, Ltd., Scientology International Missions Trust, and International Scientology Religious Trust.


Does Lichtenstien have an extradition treaty with the US? Is it anywhere near Bulgravia?

[dixi88]

Where cOs/CIA money goes will never be published. Not even to the President of the US, nor members of congress, who vote on the budget.

So how can you buy a stock in COS without a financial balance sheet? I thought it would be a good short play with all the shit flying!

[Bea Kiddo]

My question is this:

How can a person dedicate their lives to the church - up to 30 years, but when they leave, they are discredited and ridiculed as to have been totally useless?

Why should someone help them to only be tossed out or degraded or nullified for their efforts?

(an example is Marty - spending many years of his life in the SO. And for what now? And me too - totally discredited and ex-communicated.)

What kind of church is this?

[Zinjifar]

You may be 'decertified' Bea, but, *anything* but discredited :)
The 'certs' belong to them. Your integrity is yours.

Zinj

[Bea Kiddo]

You may be 'decertified' Bea, but, *anything* but discredited :)
The 'certs' belong to them. Your integrity is yours.

Zinj

Thanks Zinj!! ( I think this is my 4000th post!!! Puff puff!!!!)

Yeah, my certs made an excellent bonfire on a cold night in Illinois (but I am now in Texas where it is triple digit temps!!!! Hot!!)

Sometimes I talk with exes and they still talk Scientologese and I cant handle it!!! Funny. Glad, so so so glad to be OUT OUT OUT!!!!

[uniquemand]

It doesn't bother me. It's a shorthand (scientologese) that I understand. I don't "talk scientologese" to people who are not former scientologists. Just as I don't talk football to people who don't watch. To me, it's a language that's evocative of a time in which I had very high hopes, very strong ideals, a great deal of energy and focus, and I make no apologies for that. I apologize for not doing better research prior to involvement, but I don't regret the instincts that got me involved, or the intention (which continues) to help other people when I can.

[Zinjifar]

Mea culpa and rock on :) I may not have 'belonged' but, I do tend to use clamspeak :) No offense intended, but, for my purposes, it at the *very* least it gives me a giggle. Especially considering that I supposedly *can't* understand it :)

Congrats. Consider yourself *ACKED*

Zinj

[HelluvaHoax!]

Bea Kiddo;260820 My question is this:

How can a person dedicate their lives to the church - up to 30 years, but when they leave, they are discredited and ridiculed as to have been totally useless?

Why should someone help them to only be tossed out or degraded or nullified for their efforts?


ANSWER: Because the Church of Scientology smiles in your face, keeping a set of daggers hidden behind their back. Give them everything they want and you get the smiles (daggers remain hidden).

Do anything that displeases them and you will get holy (not the religious kind, the "hole" kind, as in daggers in the back. )

Hubbard went on and on about how 1.1 (covert hostility) is the most dangerous tone level. Isn't that the tone level of the Con of S?

[RolandRB]

All the contradictions supposedly pointed out by the OP are easily resolved using the phrase "because LRH said so!".

[Panda Termint]

And as a further comment, it's not that scientologists CANNOT answer these Qs, it's more that they WILL NOT answer them ( nor even consider them as questions, in many cases).

[RolandRB]

And as a further comment, it's not that scientologists CANNOT answer these Qs, it's more that they WILL NOT answer them ( nor even consider them as questions, in many cases).

The official response would be something like "Have you read Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health?".

[CornPie]

Q1: Why does L ron hubbard Blvd in Hollywood, CA completely shut down at the sight on just one scientology protester?

Q2: Why does everybody walk past Anon Sparrow when he brings up legitimate issues to people walking in-and-out of the scientology org Washington, DC? (as shown on his many youtube videos.)

Q3: What kind of a BS story are we going to hear, when an attempt is made to fill up all those empty scientology/CIA-CIA-CIA buildings worldwide -- worldwide -- worldwide?

Q4: How is anybody ever going to take scientology or the indy-freezone serious as long as you believe in OT3 Xenu and the invisible Body Thetans (BT's)? Ha-ha-ha, ha-ha-ha.

[Ted]

You may be 'decertified' Bea, but, *anything* but discredited :)
The 'certs' belong to them. Your integrity is yours.

Zinj


My sentiments exactly.

Years ago, I reasoned that the church giveth the certs, so the church can taketh away.

The training and experience, however, is mine. I take that away from the church.

The future is mine.

I don't need no stinkin' certs.

People still come to me for auditing and help.

[HelluvaHoax!]

And as a further comment, it's not that scientologists CANNOT answer these Qs, it's more that they WILL NOT answer them ( nor even consider them as questions, in many cases).

Interesting take on it, I agree! So, therefore....

CANNOT ANSWER
is really
WILL NOT ANSWER
which is actually
NEED NOT ANSWER

Need not answer, because a Scientologist believes that they must "parallel the mind" of the person they are handling.

The "question" as you astutely observe, is not even considered a question as much as it is a "manifestation" of what needs to be handled.

In Scientology Think there ARE NO LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS, because all the ANSWERS are already found. There is only reference to the source answers. Every question is reinterpreted and reformulated as a reach for the appropriate LRH reference.

Therefore when a person erroneously thinks they are asking a question, they are really (according to Scn) showing what they need to be handled on. The job of the SCN is to handle them with the appropriate tech (word clearing, false data stripping, ethics conditions, rollback of black pr, pts handling, disconnection from evil beings, etc.....).

The Scn is proud they can increase production by eliminating the needless DevT called a "question" and get right down to the business of salvaging degraded beings who ask them.

[ThisFenceHurts]

Interesting take on it, I agree! So, therefore....

CANNOT ANSWER
is really
WILL NOT ANSWER
which is actually
NEED NOT ANSWER

Need not answer, because a Scientologist believes that they must "parallel the mind" of the person they are handling.

The "question" as you astutely observe, is not even considered a question as much as it is a "manifestation" of what needs to be handled.

In Scientology Think there ARE NO LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS, because all the ANSWERS are already found. There is only reference to the source answers. Every question is reinterpreted and reformulated as a reach for the appropriate LRH reference.

Therefore when a person erroneously thinks they are asking a question, they are really (according to Scn) showing what they need to be handled on. The job of the SCN is to handle them with the appropriate tech (word clearing, false data stripping, ethics conditions, rollback of black pr, pts handling, disconnection from evil beings, etc.....).

The Scn is proud they can increase production by eliminating the needless DevT called a "question" and get right down to the business of salvaging degraded beings who ask them.

This is one of the simplest and most accurate explanations I have seen for the behavior of most Scientologists. Also liked the KSW post.

[Panda Termint]

:goodposting: Now, we're gettin' there. :goodposting:

[Lee_from_phx]

The simple answer to all of these questions is that the cult is a scam designed to part fools from their money and enslave them if possible.

Scientology is the antithesis of everything it publicly proclaims to be.

[Human Again]

The simple answer to all of these questions is that the cult is a scam designed to part fools from their money and enslave them if possible.

Scientology is the antithesis of everything it publicly proclaims to be.

:thumbsup:

[dixi88]

[QUOTE=HelluvaHoax!;260676]


Excellent question!

I am guessing that since the CoS refuses (or cannot) answer a simple common-sense question about what they need your money for, it means:

* Your money is needed to protect and advance Scientology
* Specifically to get and keep in all the points of Keeping Scientology Working
* Specifically "KNOWING IT IS CORRECT" (the technology)

That's where your donation comes in.

You apparently do NOT know that "IT IS CORRECT" since you are questioning senior scientologists about their on-policy actions.

Therefore money is needed to "hammer out of existence" people like YOU asking questions like that. Kind of like making advance payments on your own funeral.
"
What about the Way To Happiness promoted most heavily on the public, stating Look, See what you see, not what someone tells you that you see, through some curtain of fear, cloud of prejudice, or interpretation of another. I'm trying to gently get them to LOOK. "


So... Do not ask for whom the IAS tolls, it tolls for thee.

toll  [tohl] –noun
1. a payment or fee exacted by the state, the local authorities, etc., for some right or privilege, as for passage along a road or over a bridge.
2. the extent of loss, damage, suffering, etc., resulting from some action or calamity: The toll was 300 persons dead or missing.
3. a tax, duty, or tribute, as for services or use of facilities.
4. a payment made for a long-distance telephone call.
5. (formerly, in England) the right to take such payment.
6. a compensation for services, as for transportation or transmission.
7. grain retained by a miller in payment for grinding.
–verb (used with object)
8. to collect (something) as toll.
9. to impose a tax or toll on (a person).
–verb (used without object)
10. to collect toll; levy toll[/QUOTE

[TA Jacker]

Interesting take on it, I agree! So, therefore....

CANNOT ANSWER
is really
WILL NOT ANSWER
which is actually
NEED NOT ANSWER

Need not answer, because a Scientologist believes that they must "parallel the mind" of the person they are handling.

The "question" as you astutely observe, is not even considered a question as much as it is a "manifestation" of what needs to be handled.

In Scientology Think there ARE NO LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS, because all the ANSWERS are already found. There is only reference to the source answers. Every question is reinterpreted and reformulated as a reach for the appropriate LRH reference.

Therefore when a person erroneously thinks they are asking a question, they are really (according to Scn) showing what they need to be handled on. The job of the SCN is to handle them with the appropriate tech (word clearing, false data stripping, ethics conditions, rollback of black pr, pts handling, disconnection from evil beings, etc.....).

The Scn is proud they can increase production by eliminating the needless DevT called a "question" and get right down to the business of salvaging degraded beings who ask them.

You seem to have answered your own question quite beautifully.

If $cientology was supposed to be removing additives from a being and increasing their ability to confront someone wasn't paying attention in their processing and training!

Of course a $cio can never answer these types of questions, that would require an original thought in response to unconfronted question after sifting through oodles of Tech Vol handlings parroted away for a rainy day!:duh:

[Bea Kiddo]

It doesn't bother me. It's a shorthand (scientologese) that I understand. I don't "talk scientologese" to people who are not former scientologists. Just as I don't talk football to people who don't watch. To me, it's a language that's evocative of a time in which I had very high hopes, very strong ideals, a great deal of energy and focus, and I make no apologies for that. I apologize for not doing better research prior to involvement, but I don't regret the instincts that got me involved, or the intention (which continues) to help other people when I can.

I guess I dont mind people using the words. I admit I have done it too - I guess its the ones who talk about their case as if they have one. To each his own, though, I guess.

I guess I am glad I dont deal with it daily.

Anyways, for example, I just found another friend (one of my RPF twins mentioned in my story), and we got back in touch. She is declared but not really doing anything about it that I can tell. She said she wont have time to do A to E this lifetime (I guess its the "this lifetime" thing - maybe I dont beleive in it? Not sure...) - but it was used in the Scientologese sense...

[Good twin]

I guess I dont mind people using the words. I admit I have done it too - I guess its the ones who talk about their case as if they have one. To each his own, though, I guess.

I guess I am glad I dont deal with it daily.

Anyways, for example, I just found another friend (one of my RPF twins mentioned in my story), and we got back in touch. She is declared but not really doing anything about it that I can tell. She said she wont have time to do A to E this lifetime (I guess its the "this lifetime" thing - maybe I dont beleive in it? Not sure...) - but it was used in the Scientologese sense...

I agree Bea. I speak the language mostly in reference to rejecting the philosophy and technology. I know this stuff runs deep and as exes I think we have multiple layers of indoctrination that can sometimes only be seen by other exes.

[degraded being]

I guess I dont mind people using the words. I admit I have done it too - I guess its the ones who talk about their case as if they have one. To each his own, though, I guess.

I guess I am glad I dont deal with it daily.

Anyways, for example, I just found another friend (one of my RPF twins mentioned in my story), and we got back in touch. She is declared but not really doing anything about it that I can tell. She said she wont have time to do A to E this lifetime (I guess its the "this lifetime" thing - maybe I dont beleive in it? Not sure...) - but it was used in the Scientologese sense...


Eternity is spiritual junkie's Meth.

[Voltaire's Child]

When we were in and some reg would be haranguing us to spend money, put it on a credit card, get in debt to a/p something, my husband used to say "Would you guarantee that?" to the reg's promises that we wouldn't suffer financial devastation, that we'd make the money back from becoming that much more capable from doing the course or getting the auditing.

Guess what. They never were willing to guarantee it.

[TA Jacker]

Eternity is spiritual junkie's Meth.

Indeed it is!

Regarding Scientologees, well... I was a word clearer for 6 years and a sup and cramm off after that. We know that words ARE concepts, and that the mind is built of concepts and connections. In other words, we think with or through words. I found that using Scio speak kept me tied to certain realities that are predominantly Hubbardarian and made it harder to separate myself mentally from the subject or the old life, perspective, reality, whatever you want to call it. Each Scientology concept is represented by a word. When that word has been used enough times it becomes your own. I think it's the language that gets you. I remember how weird it all was at first, "your PTS" or "stop ser facing", etc.

I would only use the talk now in jest. Although it is pretty hard not to let the odd word slip out.:duh:

[sallydannce]

Indeed it is!

Regarding Scientologees, well... I was a word clearer for 6 years and a sup and cramm off after that. We know that words ARE concepts, and that the mind is built of concepts and connections. In other words, we think with or through words. I found that using Scio speak kept me tied to certain realities that are predominantly Hubbardarian and made it harder to separate myself mentally from the subject or the old life, perspective, reality, whatever you want to call it. Each Scientology concept is represented by a word. When that word has been used enough times it becomes your own. I think it's the language that gets you. I remember how weird it all was at first, "your PTS" or "stop ser facing", etc.

I would only use the talk now in jest. Although it is pretty hard not to let the odd word slip out.:duh:

Fascinating TA Jacker. I have explored this concept hard. The mental conditioning is via the language, imo. Initially with self. It is reinforced by group members yakking away with scio lingo.

I had a wild experience with this. By accident. I went to live in a foreign culture. I could not speak much due to not knowing the local languages. All I heard around me was "noise" i.e. non distinguishable speech sounds/language. Consequently I had to focus very carefully at conveying any vital communication - really work on basic concepts like "how much money do I owe you" to shopkeepers, etc. I was so utterly "in the moment" to get the basics of each day achieved.

It was like being a two-year-old in an adults body. I could not understand so many things. Wild stuff. Invigorating and at times, exhausting. My mind became very "lean" and I became very in tune with my environment. Had to, to get by, survive.

The added lingo of scientology was, by default, forced out of my mind as it was totally superfluous to basic requirement. Even the concepts of scientology, which I had for years and years framed life with, were abandoned, accidentally. I would see a man fall off his bike and just think "a man just fell off his bike" whereas for years I would have thought "that man has a PTS scene going on" or "he needs an assist", etc. I could cite thousands of examples of how this actually worked. Simplicity of thought returned to me. Think of this like being stripped back to your bare survival skills without the need for any fancy "isms". "Isms" were a luxury. It was a matter of just getting through the day the best damn way you could. No mental filtering required - just me and life. Hard up against one another.

Without that scientology lingo influencing my thoughts and without the reinforcement of hearing the lingo from other scientologists around me, huge changes occurred. At the time this happened, I loved scientology, wanted to be a scientologist, etc. So it was a huge shock to find myself, after several months of living without any scientology lingo, concepts, that I began to think differently, view things in a very new way and start to question what I had been involved in.

The language factor is KEY to making a scientologist and then UN-making a scientologist. In my own very well lived experience.

[TA Jacker]

That was an awesome account of the very crux of the matter. Thank you so much for sharing that experience! Sounds like a great thing to try, I think I'll have to give it a go some day.

I'm pretty sure wRONg was right onto this in creating $cientology.

Funny, this reminds me of something that happened to me while still on staff. I'd been suping a guy who was a long time Scio and had always fallen asleep while on study... how many of those are there, lol... and had him start to clay demo all of the basic Scio terms. I started looking myself at how this would work. I realized as an upshot of this that "Thetan" was a term not a thing, an abstraction not an object. I then had the idea, as I had been listening to a lot of basic lectures at the time also, to see if I could not know all of the Scio terms and concepts and relearn them in a new unit of time and have them still make sense... Well that didn't go so well, and the rest is history!

[degraded being]

That was an awesome account of the very crux of the matter. Thank you so much for sharing that experience! Sounds like a great thing to try, I think I'll have to give it a go some day.

I'm pretty sure wRONg was right onto this in creating $cientology.

Funny, this reminds me of something that happened to me while still on staff. I'd been suping a guy who was a long time Scio and had always fallen asleep while on study... how many of those are there, lol... and had him start to clay demo all of the basic Scio terms. I started looking myself at how this would work. I realized as an upshot of this that "Thetan" was a term not a thing, an abstraction not an object. I then had the idea, as I had been listening to a lot of basic lectures at the time also, to see if I could not know all of the Scio terms and concepts and relearn them in a new unit of time and have them still make sense... Well that didn't go so well, and the rest is history!


That's interesting, in light of your last post, which I totally agree with.
I have seen long winded, hyperbolic discussions on "spiritual" things on this board. I am not saying that people don't make interesting points or nothing is gained, but sometimes there is a big fat NOTHING underneath these discussion's That's because the terms used are nothing but created significance. Created significance which has no referent or referents in reality.

Not that that will hold 'em back.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Fascinating TA Jacker. I have explored this concept hard. The mental conditioning is via the language, imo. Initially with self. It is reinforced by group members yakking away with scio lingo.

I had a wild experience with this. By accident. I went to live in a foreign culture. I could not speak much due to not knowing the local languages. All I heard around me was "noise" i.e. non distinguishable speech sounds/language. Consequently I had to focus very carefully at conveying any vital communication - really work on basic concepts like "how much money do I owe you" to shopkeepers, etc. I was so utterly "in the moment" to get the basics of each day achieved.

It was like being a two-year-old in an adults body. I could not understand so many things. Wild stuff. Invigorating and at times, exhausting. My mind became very "lean" and I became very in tune with my environment. Had to, to get by, survive.

The added lingo of scientology was, by default, forced out of my mind as it was totally superfluous to basic requirement. Even the concepts of scientology, which I had for years and years framed life with, were abandoned, accidentally. I would see a man fall off his bike and just think "a man just fell off his bike" whereas for years I would have thought "that man has a PTS scene going on" or "he needs an assist", etc. I could cite thousands of examples of how this actually worked. Simplicity of thought returned to me. Think of this like being stripped back to your bare survival skills without the need for any fancy "isms". "Isms" were a luxury. It was a matter of just getting through the day the best damn way you could. No mental filtering required - just me and life. Hard up against one another.

Without that scientology lingo influencing my thoughts and without the reinforcement of hearing the lingo from other scientologists around me, huge changes occurred. At the time this happened, I loved scientology, wanted to be a scientologist, etc. So it was a huge shock to find myself, after several months of living without any scientology lingo, concepts, that I began to think differently, view things in a very new way and start to question what I had been involved in.

The language factor is KEY to making a scientologist and then UN-making a scientologist. In my own very well lived experience.


Such a great post! Wonderful observations!

When I first freed myself from the slavery of "total freedom" one of the most beautiful feelings was to remove the word-shackles & concept-chains that bound my every thought and movement. Ecstasy!

It is so remarkable to listen to a Scn speak now. Everything in life can be reduced to moronically simplistic terms, plus or minus.

Me upstat. He,she or it downstat.
Me uptone. He, she or it downtone.
Me theta. He, she or it entheta.
Me cause. He, she or it effect.
Me OT. He, she or it DB.
Me in-ethics. He, she or it out-ethics.
Me Power. He, she or it lower condition.
Me GIs. He, she or it BI's.
Me on bridge. He, she or it off bridge.


The other day I was watching a movie with a 4 year old. Every time a new character would be introduced, this adorable child would look at me and ask "ARE THEY GOOD OR ARE THEY BAD?"

That's how little kids think. Simplistically. To keep themselves oriented and avoid being frightened.

That's how Scientologists avoid being frightened, too.

[Doom]

The real questing is how do you stop laughing after asking those questions to a young staff member on the phone trying to sell you the "Basics" for the twentieth time that day.:roflmao:

[angel]

I never heard that Scientologist's know the answer to everything. I know they are capable of finding the answer's, but not being all knowing on the spot.

I do not believe that LRH Killed his own body to operate as a thetan. I believe his body failed him.

In regards to rejecting the mentally ill I believe the plan was to help the able become more able and then pick up the psych cases later.

I don't think you should have to prove exteriorization. You could bark up other trees for that one like Kundalini yoga meditation practiced by the yogi's.

What do they need all the money for? This one I love :blowkiss: Supposedly the money is the exchange for the service. My issue is in the early 80's the prices were raised to unbelievable heights. Prior to the price hikes My husband secured one of his OT Levels for approx $450.00 and its still on account! The Org's were huge and fully staffed. I walked into a close to Saint Hill Size Org and seeing all the posts manned and how they fit together was truly fascinating. The price hike closed the doors and only allowed the wealthy and those willing to go into debt through. What was the purpose for this? If it was greed it didnt work, all the Org's shrunk to multi hatted ghost towns. What they did with the money? Cater to the likes of Tom Cruise, purchase unbelievable real estate, all the reno's at Flag. I would have felt the exchange better had they Air Conditioned ASHO and all the Org's.

Jen

[HelluvaHoax!]

angel;261748]


I never heard that Scientologist's know the answer to everything. I know they are capable of finding the answer's, but not being all knowing on the spot.
Hmmmm,. I never met a trained OT who did not behave like they had all the answers. You must be running into a new style of OT manufactured after I left.. (lol)


I do not believe that LRH Killed his own body to operate as a thetan. I believe his body failed him.
That's what the leader of the Church Of Scientology represented to all the Scientologists in the world who gathered at the event. I suppose you are saying that David Miscavige lied, in that case? ( By the way, I'm with you on this, he died just like everyone else dies, like a mortal man)


In regards to rejecting the mentally ill I believe the plan was to help the able become more able and then pick up the psych cases later.
I was told to believe that and I used to believe that. Later I realized that an "able" person had more money. And a mentally unsound one did not. Add to that the fact that on a normal person, you can't easily see if the person improved, all you can do is listen to what they tell you (I feel better).

On the mentally ill, however, their behavior is OBSERVABLE as far as whether they improve or not. (they can speak coherently, they stop sleeping all day, they stop hallucinating, they stop screaming, etc.) If you claim you can cure the insane (as Hubbard often did) it seems pretty obvious (to me) that you would go out and prove it.

He didn't because he couldn't. The "reason" he gave to not treat the insane was self-serving. The real reason was because it didn't make money and because it would be an obvious failure when a mental patient did not respond to the "miracle technology".



I don't think you should have to prove exteriorization. You could bark up other trees for that one like Kundalini yoga meditation practiced by the yogi's.
I agree with you. No one should have to prove exteriorization. Unless they promise it to you, charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve it and then fail to deliver on that promise. Then they do have to prove it. If they don't want to prove it, just give the billions of dollars back to the victims of the con game and start over. No problem.

[cantsay]

I agree. If you are PAYING to get that ability, you should be able to see that it can be delivered before handing over the hard-earned cash.

The whole point of Sunday Services that were brought in in the early 2000s was that LRH said his group processes cause exteriorisation, and that was supposed to get newbies on the bridge. "wow Im 3 feet back of my head, here's $100,000".

All it did was bore the crap out of new people. They were long, repetative processes. I never saw anyone other than a couple of OTs claim that they exteriorised during group processing. It certainly never worked on me and I went every week.

[HelluvaHoax!]

I agree. If you are PAYING to get that ability, you should be able to see that it can be delivered before handing over the hard-earned cash.

The whole point of Sunday Services that were brought in in the early 2000s was that LRH said his group processes cause exteriorisation, and that was supposed to get newbies on the bridge. "wow Im 3 feet back of my head, here's $100,000".

All it did was bore the crap out of new people. They were long, repetative processes. I never saw anyone other than a couple of OTs claim that they exteriorised during group processing. It certainly never worked on me and I went every week.

Imagine this scenario:

In 60 years let's say that only ONE (1) person ever gained the ability to exteriorize. Not hard to guess what would have happened.

There would have been film crews with that person day and night, testing done, proof shown, leading scientists flown in to set up protocols to eliminate doubt, government subsidy and grants, worldwide notoriety on the front page of every newspaper and magazine, radio and tv shows running stories about it around the clock......

Scientology would have sold books, tapes, videos, lectures, seminars, courses, auditing and there would have been lines running blocks long for people to get to OT. Paying pcs would have to wait MONTHS or longer to get an auditor. The scarcity would have driven the price up to unthinkable heights. The rich and famous would be in bidding wars for top auditors.

It would have been considered a MIRACLE and people would have made religious pilgrimages to see or touch the blessed one. Billions in merchandising and souvenirs would have been sold. Hundreds of books would have been written about it. Major movies would be released.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORLD CHANGING EVENT.

That's if only ONE (1) person could exteriorize.

Imagine what would have happened if Scientology worked on everyone, the way it says!

[TA Jacker]

Imagine this scenario:

In 60 years let's say that only ONE (1) person ever gained the ability to exteriorize. Not hard to guess what would have happened.

There would have been film crews with that person day and night, testing done, proof shown, leading scientists flown in to set up protocols to eliminate doubt, government subsidy and grants, worldwide notoriety on the front page of every newspaper and magazine, radio and tv shows running stories about it around the clock......

Scientology would have sold books, tapes, videos, lectures, seminars, courses, auditing and there would have been lines running blocks long for people to get to OT. Paying pcs would have to wait MONTHS or longer to get an auditor. The scarcity would have driven the price up to unthinkable heights. The rich and famous would be in bidding wars for top auditors.

It would have been considered a MIRACLE and people would have made religious pilgrimages to see or touch the blessed one. Billions in merchandising and souvenirs would have been sold. Hundreds of books would have been written about it. Major movies would be released.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORLD CHANGING EVENT.

That's if only ONE (1) person could exteriorize.

Imagine what would have happened if Scientology worked on everyone, the way it says!

This is so true!

How about in the 50's, during the time before the PDC. Ron says there that 50% of people exteriorize instantly on the command, "Be 3 feet back of your head" or "Try not to be 3 feet back of your head", and that this was the one shot clear. The rest of the body of knowledge of Scientology was for the chap that didn't respond to this command!

Or the chapter, "Skills of a theta being" from "A History of Man" where he talks about not starting a war in these parts on free thetans by showing off your skills such as tipping of hats or reading newspapers 100 yards away.

I think with these sorts of claims that something, someone somewhere should have been able to prove it! Particularly when it is one of the EPs of the upper levels.

Maybe L Con Hubbard was the only man to be able to do it and went nuts trying to prove it to others but failed. Possibly he carried forward Crowley's obsession with leaving the body and getting himself off the planet.

Has anyone on the board seen or experienced true exteriorization? (This question may be covered elsewhere in another thread.):confused2:

[cantsay]

I thought I did at some point, but now Im not so sure. Its highly possible that I was a little out of it form lack of sleep, proper food and extremely overworked, not to mantion it was late a night and I was very tired.

So probably no.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Has anyone on the board seen or experienced true exteriorization?


I experienced exteriorization from Scientology. Does that count?

[Bea Kiddo]

Another question they cannot answer:

What is the definition of Clear? And what are the actual, provable abilities in every Clear?

(And why are some Clears or OTs more equal than others?) :confused2:

How could a person get so far up the Bridge and/or so high up in the Sea Org and turn out to be an SP after dedicating years of their life to helping?

[FinallyMe]

As a child - maybe 5-7 years old, I would exteriorize fairly regularly, traveling around outside my house -- I thought I was flying. Then on an acid trip, I went exterior, no question about it, although I certainly didn't call it "exterior" as I had never heard the term. Then during an auditing session shortly after I started Scn, I went exterior. I had no idea what that was, but I made a comment to my auditor about how TALL I was. I didn't know what "exterior" was at the time as I was too new, but I was delighted to have gotten to the same "height" that I had while on the acid trip - it was a pretty cool, empowering sensation. I just wonder if, had I know what was happening, could I have tried to do anything different than just walking, talking, etc. My experiences leave me with the opinion that "being 3 feet in back of your head" is fairly useless. I didn't feel that any witching powers came along with the position.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Another question they cannot answer:

What is the definition of Clear? And what are the actual, provable abilities in every Clear?

(And why are some Clears or OTs more equal than others?) :confused2:

How could a person get so far up the Bridge and/or so high up in the Sea Org and turn out to be an SP after dedicating years of their life to helping?

That, ladies and gentlemen, is a Scieno-Stumper!

I Had to stop and think hard on the answer to that question. The real answer, not the bumper-sticker, bromide bandaids that the CoS hands out to parishoners traumatized by the truth.

Here are the possible explanations:

The person was ALWAYS an SP: But that means that nobody in Scn, including Hubbard knows what an SP is, how to detect and shatter them. No, that's not gonna work.

The person BECOMES an SP: But that means that the tech didn't work, so that's not gonna work either.

Hmmmm, what else is left that would explain it?

They were overwhelmed by an SP and went into the SP's valence: Top tech terminals and OTs in the world including Ron's auditor? At total effect? Not gonna work.

There is more than one definition of SP: Oooops! That explains it.

SP DEFINITION #1: (see bulletins & policies on anti social and SP)

SP DEFINITION #2: "People who protest being slaves to Scientology. Slavery Protesters (SP).

[TA Jacker]

There is more than one definition of SP: Oooops! That explains it.

SP DEFINITION #1: (see bulletins & policies on anti social and SP)

SP DEFINITION #2: "People who protest being slaves to Scientology. Slavery Protesters (SP).

Part of this thread adds to the above hypothesis:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11221
:thumbsup:

[HelluvaHoax!]

Posted by HelluvaHoax!:
There is more than one definition of SP: Oooops! That explains it.

SP DEFINITION #1: (see bulletins & policies on anti social and SP)

SP DEFINITION #2: "People who protest being slaves to Scientology. Slavery Protesters (SP).




Part of this thread adds to the above hypothesis:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11221
:thumbsup:

That's a good post on the "cycle of a scientologist", thanks!

[TA Jacker]

Posted by HelluvaHoax!:





That's a good post on the "cycle of a scientologist", thanks!

Cheers mate!

Glad it meant something to ya. :mail:

[Royal Prince Xenu]

ANSWER: Because the Church of Scientology smiles in your face, keeping a set of daggers hidden behind their back. Give them everything they want and you get the smiles (daggers remain hidden).

Do anything that displeases them and you will get holy (not the religious kind, the "hole" kind, as in daggers in the back. )

Hubbard went on and on about how 1.1 (covert hostility) is the most dangerous tone level. Isn't that the tone level of the Con of S?

At one time I had so many "daggers in the back" that I had difficulty balancing upright--but as the consensus demonstrates it had nothing to do with my attempting to enforce policy in relation to my own post, it was because I was OUT ETHICS!!!

[Voltaire's Child]

I surely agree with what's being said here about CofS and SPs. Yes, lots of daggers in the back.

[HelluvaHoax!]

At one time I had so many "daggers in the back" that I had difficulty balancing upright--but as the consensus demonstrates it had nothing to do with my attempting to enforce policy in relation to my own post, it was because I was OUT ETHICS!!!

Yeah, that reminds me of the lovely end phenomena "cognition" I had after being run on the Scientology Slave Rundown:

THE SLAVE COG: "If something good happened anywhere in my vicinity, it was because of Scientology. If something bad happened anywhere in my vicinity, it was because of me."

Remarkably, the Scn Slave Rundown is so powerful that it takes years to attain the full end phenomena. It is the only rundown that allows... actually requires that the pc be FED THE EP on a daily basis until they can make it their own.

[HelluvaHoax!]

I surely agree with what's being said here about CofS and SPs. Yes, lots of daggers in the back.

Reminds me of when I was in the S.O. and LRH would send in a fire-breathing mission from the ship. First action was for the uniformed mission commander to storm in to a staff muster and violently stab the mission orders into the wall with a dagger. Somehow it didn't feel very spiritual....

There is, however, one notable exception when CofS does NOT stab one unexpectedly in the back.

The times the CofS stabs one unexpectedly in the front. (lol)

[HelluvaHoax!]

some more questions that Scientologists CANNOT answer....

*** If scientology works 100% of the time and makes people happy and free, why do so many scientologists unhappily LEAVE after 10, 20 years or more?

*** Why does the leader of scientology (DM) physically beat his staff?

*** (in case they don't believe the last one): Why (per Tommy Davis), was Marty Rathbun allowed to physically beat staff over 50 times over a long period of time without being removed from post or reported to the police?

*** why did hubbard direct his wife and top international execs to commit so many serious crimes that they all went to prison? (and if someone thinks he did not know about it, how could an OT not know what was happening in his immediate vicinity including the people he worked with every day and the woman he slept with every night?)

*** why did hubbard reveal in a 1958 filmed congress (see thread "Hubbard Admits Dianetics Book Is A Fraud" ) that he had grossly erred and that DMSMH DOES NOT produce a clear....and then continue selling the uncorrected book, courses and auditing for the next 50 years, guaranteeing that you can go clear in a few hours with DMSMH even though it was known to be a lie.


there are soooooooooo many more such questions. don't get me started! (lol)