Have you ever falsely attested (wins/courses)

[Unperfekt]

Now that most of you have some distance from the cult, I'd like to have you think back to how you described scientology to others. All of the wins you said you had, maybe even "OT Phenomena" that didn't really happen, etc.

I want to hear the worst of the worst. What did you say? Did you bring anyone into the cult by lying? (rhetorical question)

example: I heard that one kid at the Delphian School got sick of being required to write down his 'success story' so he could finish the course. So he drew a fat cock on the paper.

What about you?

[OliviaZero]

The "success story" I wrote after my purif was a complete and utter lie. I wrote it because I didn't feel like I could leave the room (or the org) without a big confrontation otherwise. I wrote that because of the purif, I felt free of all toxins or some bullshit (I vaguely remember attesting to this on e-meter as well?).

The truth was that I never felt worse in my life, and it took me months to recover from the Purif afterward. I feel somewhat lucky that is was such a horrible experience, as it was the last thing I did in Scientology.

[Thrak]

I wonder if anyone doesn't attest

[uniquemand]

I attested after my purif, but I had an opposite experience from OliviaZero. I found it intensely pleasurable in the sauna, and felt squeaky clean all the time. I can't say I felt free of the drugs, because I never felt trapped by them in the first place, but I certainly felt extremely healthy and alert.

I was an 18 year old guy, though, and in prime shape of my life. Here's a picture of me, one day after my purif. I'm the guy eating the cake. My ex-wife, who had just finished her purif (we were both on staff) is the one feeding me the cake.

[Kathy (ImOut)]

I lied/stretched the truth when I finished Grade 4. It was the worse auditing experience of my life. And I'm not really sure I had all the EPs I was supposed to have when I attested.

It wasn't much longer after that, that I got out of Scn.

[uniquemand]

I've had some bum auditing, too. I was a red-tagger, almost every time ("dog pc"). I did make breakthroughs from time to time, but nowhere near 100% of the time. The hype around these Grades and Levels contributes to the disappointment and later leaving the Church that most people I've talked to have gone through. I've done "processes" that addressed some concepts ("service facsimile") from Grade IV, and felt that it radically changed how I related to other people: if you think I have 'tude now, you didn't know me then. I'm just not done yet. :)

Part of the problem is the cookie cutter approach of the Church. If you have no charge in that area, it's a fools errand to run a process on it. It will become a grind, full of wrong items and without resolution. The Church does a lot of things "pro forma" that are a waste of time and money, if done at the wrong time. It does many things that I think are not only a waste of time and money, but which constitute, essentially, implanting their members with science fiction paranoia and obsession with psychic powers (siddhis), so that they can then run it out, on OTIII. Incredibly unethical. If it were not protected by "religious freedom", and if it were regulated by the APA, it would constitute malpractice, and likely result in loss of credentials. In the case of the CofS, that's exactly what they are trained to explode about.

[OliviaZero]

I attested after my purif, but I had an opposite experience from OliviaZero. I found it intensely pleasurable in the sauna, and felt squeaky clean all the time. I can't say I felt free of the drugs, because I never felt trapped by them in the first place, but I certainly felt extremely healthy and alert.

I was an 18 year old guy, though, and in prime shape of my life. Here's a picture of me, one day after my purif. I'm the guy eating the cake. My ex-wife, who had just finished her purif (we were both on staff) is the one feeding me the cake.

I wouldn't expect everyone to have the same experience, but it's probably relevent to mention that I was under 30, and in excellent shape when I began the purif, and was much less so afterward. I didn't have a drug history either, so there wasn't anything much to "run out". I felt good maybe the first couple of days, but 8 weeks later? Not so much.

I happen to think a little bit of sauna here and there is beneficial. 5 hours of sauna a day for an indefinite number of days because you're looking for an elusive EP (which in my case just didn't happen)? That's crazayzy.

I know this thread is about falsely attesting, so I apologize for going slightly OT.

Sweet photo, K. :)

[Unperfekt]

I probably asked too broad a question... but the answers are fantastic and revealing.

[Ladybird]

I didn't lie Unperfect. I think I just didn't know any better. I am and always have been an enthusiastic person, but I do remember one time I got a really rotten session. I totalllly disagreed with the whole thing, but the robot auditor didn't even notice how pissed and upset I was. I was sure I would red tag, but no, the examiner didn't notice either!


He was my friend and my junior! I have joked about my big cheesy grin and fat happy face, so I think no one noticed even though I was not trying to hide anything.

After that I tried consciously to "float" through ruds (Rudiment checks: "Do you have a PTP (Present time problem) "Do you have an ARC Break" (a break in affinity, reality or communication) "Has a withold been missed?" (Is there something you don't want someone to find out about?) etc, etc...ad infinitum.

I was a Sea Org member and most of us Sea Org cared a lot more about clearing the planet than the public PCs who were more interested in their "case".

So gradually, over time, I learned I could get back on post faster if my needle floated on these stupid introverting questions.

I didn't actually intend to lie, but WTF! I didn't fricking have time to do anything wrong or even think a wrong thought since I was a teenager! All I wanted was to get back to my post and get my stats up.


So I gradually learned te e-meter couldn't read my mind.

[Free to shine]

The Purif did nothing for me, nothing. I hadn't had any drugs other than dentist stuff and maybe a painkiller. I had to endure stories of a wanted abortion from someone who now runs Narconon and it made me sick. After a few weeks I couldn't handle it anymore and made up a win to get out of there.

[GreyLensman]

2D co-audit. I just wanted the fucking thing and the person I was married to out of my life as soon as possible.

I vaguely recall attesting, but I am certain the "F/N" was an ARC break needle, or the F/N was from the idea of being free of this bullshit. It was utter crap, utter torture and did nothing in the slightest toward either relieving any charge or resolving any marriage issues.

[clamicide]

I attested to my Clear Certainty Rundown feeling like total hell. I HAD gotten the EP in that I KNEW that I was Clear, but I knew that something else went totally wiggy when they were delivering the rundown and I felt like shit. Was out of money/hours and I got the EP on the card, so I attested even though I knew I was completely fucked up at that point.

The other thing that comes to mind was lying during graduation speeches while on TTC. I actually had great wins doing the levels, but I lied my ass off about how great life as a staff member because we were told to do so in order to help recruitment onto the TTC. My own little 'personal stat' was how many people came up to me afterward and told me how great my speech was. (I give good speech dude:D) Yeah, I still feel awful about it.

[Iknowtoomuch]

I don't have any bad ones just a lot of writing because you can't finish the course if you don't write a Success Story. I didn't get much at all out of most of what I did.

[cantsay]

Whenever I see threads like this I get a bit nervy - this is the type of discussion that the Church would use as evidence to those in the Church that Exs are:

- out-ethics
- overt ridden
- dog pcs
- no case-gain
- nattery
- red tagged
- SPs.

If you are reading this and you are still IN, please keep in mind that almost EVERYONE in Scientology will have problems with the tech at some point. The bridge is a "one size fits all" approach, and you just have to look around at your local org to see that it isnt exactly working well - otherwise there would be dozens of people demanding to go up the Bridge, wouldnt there?...... there isnt.

Unless you are/were a staff member, you probably have no idea how much effort, persuasion and coersion is needed to get the average Joe to move on the Bridge. MOST people just dont - and one of the main reasons is that hardly anyone is getting these constant amazing blowout wins that they are claiming. Its hard to be motivated to do something that really isnt doing jack shite for you. Sure, one or two big wins are enough to get you enthused for a while, but they are outweighed by the not-so-great, what the hell did I pay so much for, mediocare or downright nasty crap. Its just that you cant say so.

[cantsay]

The other thing that comes to mind was lying during graduation speeches while on TTC. I actually had great wins doing the levels, but I lied my ass off about how great life as a staff member because we were told to do so in order to help recruitment onto the TTC. My own little 'personal stat' was how many people came up to me afterward and told me how great my speech was. (I give good speech dude:D) Yeah, I still feel awful about it.

It was kind of expected that as a TTC member you had to give fantastic wins, wasnt it? I used to come up with speeches like that too, we all did, and it never occurred to me at the time that my life was crap. I was making it go right! Handling the MEST universe and CI! And each course was making it better! While I was sliding into debt and trying to sell whatever I owned of value.... :duh:

[cantsay]

2D co-audit. I just wanted the fucking thing and the person I was married to out of my life as soon as possible.

I vaguely recall attesting, but I am certain the "F/N" was an ARC break needle, or the F/N was from the idea of being free of this bullshit. It was utter crap, utter torture and did nothing in the slightest toward either relieving any charge or resolving any marriage issues.

I did M1 coauditing with my husband. Auditing eachother (even on something as simple as MUs) caused irreparable damage to our relationship. Another thing I was relieved to have over and done with. No real big wins as such, other than a bunch of cleared words. Certianly no "recovery of ones education". Please.

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Whenever I see threads like this I get a bit nervy - this is the type of discussion that the Church would use as evidence to those in the Church that Exs are:

- out-ethics
- overt ridden
- dog pcs
- no case-gain
- nattery
- red tagged
- SPs.



Well said. :thumbsup:

Although technically no Tech person would call a pc a "dog pc" because the tech definition includes that the Tech delivery terminal is the one at fault in this case!

A lot of Exes also admit to being recidivistic drug users :bigcry:

When I wouldn't write out a success story for the purif I got to continue it for another couple of weeks. :bigcry: The C/S had been a druggie so was expecting a bigger win. I did have wins, but not £1500's worth! (Never did any street drugs or much alcohol etc).

I originated I wasn't going to attest to the CCRD (as I wasn't Clear) and the C/S was ok with that, although I wasn't happy with the CCRD handling AT ALL.:angry:

The biggest false attest was Ethics handlings.:angry: Like the curate's egg, you NEED to find something to be happy about on an Ethics handling, no matter how unjust. Not a false report, you understand. Well not an actual lie. Just being selective with the truth. :happydance:

[clamicide]

It was kind of expected that as a TTC member you had to give fantastic wins, wasnt it? I used to come up with speeches like that too, we all did, and it never occurred to me at the time that my life was crap. I was making it go right! Handling the MEST universe and CI! And each course was making it better! While I was sliding into debt and trying to sell whatever I owned of value.... :duh:

Hell yeah...we were actually "R-Factored" that we were "expected" to give those speeches. We HAD to mention TTC and how awesome it was. I was one of the few that actually had "proven myself" with my PR value at graduation that I didn't have to drill my sales pitch with the Senior C/S prior to speaking. Makes me gag. Handle the MEST universe? :dieslaughing: I was so fucked up at that point, I thought my life was becoming one Order vs. Disorder after another (it never worked btw). Forget the fact that prior to staff, I did major organization for companies, and quite well, and was rarely "confused" :dizzy:....It'd be hilarious if it wasn't my LIFE I was talking about.

[cantsay]

you guys had to DRILL your graduation speeches?? Holy cow, thats a degree more intense than Ive seen! Not that Im surprised you guys were used as PR.

The funniest one I saw was at the AO ANZO when a whole bunch of OOTs had finished the Pro TRs, along with one public. She got up and said her biggest win was being bullbaited with the same verbal abuse she had gotten as an SO member in the past!!! And her twin went on to give his win as helping her through that bullbait!!! What a HOOT!!! They went ON and ON about how hard it was, and how traumatic it was.... All the SO in the room looked like they wanted to kill her, and the public looked a little confused...

On a sadder note though, I saw a lot of that bullbait happen, and that poor girl took a long long time to "flatten" some of the nasty things SO ethics and seniors had done to her. It was very upsetting for her to live through it over and over in the courseroom. I didnt really think it was an appropriate use for bullbait, but she wanted to do it - brave girl.

[La La Lou Lou]

I attested to Natural clear after a few thousand years of drug run down. I knew it would be impossible if you believe in DMSMH to have a natural clear and, and the same time really couldnt believe that anyone could have that much to run after a few joints and a couple of tabs of acid. I think I had about a dozen folders.

If I was a natural clear what the fuck was I doing there? It wasnt as such a going out of my way to falsely attest it was just another straw to grab at knowing with full certainty that this tech worked, and either it didnt work on me which made me an sp or being a natural would explain why no case gain, so far and that now I would get some. In a few months thousands of people attested to clear. The awaited researgence didnt come though.

I guess we all were 2 and a half per centers!


La La Natural SP Lou Lou

[Good twin]

On the Freewinds when you graduate you have to have your speech approved and edited and drilled and coached before you are asked to speak at graduation. Knowing this makes graduation on the Freewinds more than surreal. You realize that those who are talking are really the cream of the crop, they are perfect and they competed with each other to have the most perfectly worded and rehearsed wins to present to the group.

You can say whatever you want at end of day muster, but even there I think the students "show off" so they might be one of the ones chosen for graduation.

[La La Lou Lou]

Just a thought, but one or two of us might have falsely said theyde finished a conditions formula they actually hadnt. I might possibly told a few white lies in confusion, liability, doubt, enemy, treason, power, non ex, danger, normal and possibly affluence, not necessarily in that order.

Perhaps if I had been allowed to do the formulas without inval and eval I would decided it was all bollocks a long time before!:duh:

I have found out that I really am an ex scientologis, what a huge release I feel, my TA is floating and Im VGI's:happydance:

[La La Lou Lou]

Sorry I appologise for not having the success story above drilled properly!

I will do the liability formula!

So sorry!:bigcry:

[pollywannacracker]

I had my doubts with wins on some courses.

And of course, those SUCCESS STORIES (cheer, rah, cheer). The first success story I had written was "proofed" by the courseroom sup and his suggestion was that I include my admiration of LRH and his tech.

Funny thing was that the course was based upon common sense and since I was not related to LRH, and I knew the material within me before I began the course, I balked, but wrote it anyway.

Of course, all other success stories I wrote thanked LRH and the tech. Some white lies there...:eyeroll:

[Panda Termint]

In answer to the OP, nope, not ever.
The mindset of a dedicated scn'ist is that if you falsely attested you'd only be cheating yourself.
I never did, I just either got the EP or kept at it until I did.

[Tiger Lily]

That's a great question.

The immediate answer is "no" -- I never "falsely attested"

BUT, I did say things that I believed to be true because I wanted them to be.

For example, when I took TR's and Objectives, I was so excited that it would make me neat. (At that time one of the EP's was "Able to put order into enviromnment"), and I was so happy that I would finally be able to be organized. When I attested, of course it was right after the course was done and I was feeling great (actually did have wins on that course), so I attested to that and made comments about how I was able to be at cause over the MEST in my life or something like that.

Well, it was true in the sense that in the minutes between my course completion and my success story I hadn't been disorganzed, and the sense that I so badly wanted it to be true; I attested to something that I knew had yet to be verified in real life.

This was the case with all the success stories. I remember after an ethics handling I was asked to write one and I asked if I could wait a couple of weeks, to see if the handling really made a difference in that relationship. Of course that didn't fly. . . so I wrote up how that relationship had been handled and how happy I was etc.

In that minute, it wasn't a "lie", but it was based on not enough information and wishful thinking.

-TL

[Free to shine]

In answer to the OP, nope, not ever.
The mindset of a dedicated scn'ist is that if you falsely attested you'd only be cheating yourself.
I never did, I just either got the EP or kept at it until I did.

:omg: Now that is dedicated!

So what changed and why?

[Panda Termint]

:omg: Now that is dedicated!

So what changed and why?
Lol, FTS, you won't rest until I've told my story, will you?
One of these days. :)

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Per the cult's own logic and decree, lots and lots of scientoligists have false attested!

All the OT's a one time.. Was called to redo their OT levels. As I recall all the clears was 'discovered' to be unclear too..

Uhm.. And lately the 'basics', all the books was reissued with really dramatic and groundbreaking amendments.. In fact Miscavige informed the scientologists that they never did 'get' scientology. They had to buy the new basics to 'get' it.

The Purif.. I attested success on that. Erh.. I had a strange experience with the light suddenly seeming much brighter and I got slightly dizzy. I was on the ladder up from the swimming pool. So I grabbed the rail firmly and sat down on the edge.

That bit about the light seeming to get brighter got into my success story...

But the fact is, I was about to farkin' faint! - On the edge of a swimming pool. I considered it dangerous to faint and fall into a pool. I thought that this happened because of the ridicolously large amounts of vitamin pills that I took on the purif...

So that caused me to decide I'd done the purif..

:yes:

[Free to shine]

Lol, FTS, you won't rest until I've told my story, will you?
One of these days. :)

Well geez mate I've got to try right?
C'mon, if I can, you can. :D

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I forgot to mention that 'false attesting' is THE top hitter 'crime' on SP declares!

:yes:

[Free to shine]

I forgot to mention that 'false attesting' is THE top hitter 'crime' on SP declares!

:yes:

I bees a bad bad esspee then. :coolwink:

[justaguy]

Hell yeah...we were actually "R-Factored" that we were "expected" to give those speeches. We HAD to mention TTC and how awesome it was. I was one of the few that actually had "proven myself" with my PR value at graduation that I didn't have to drill my sales pitch with the Senior C/S prior to speaking. Makes me gag. Handle the MEST universe? :dieslaughing: I was so fucked up at that point, I thought my life was becoming one Order vs. Disorder after another (it never worked btw). Forget the fact that prior to staff, I did major organization for companies, and quite well, and was rarely "confused" :dizzy:....It'd be hilarious if it wasn't my LIFE I was talking about.

Clamicide: what if it were hilarious in spite of the fact that it was your life? because it was your life?

What if one is truly healed when they can look back at their suffering and laugh?

[La La Lou Lou]

I thought it was standard tech to falsly attest?

As our good friend has pointed out the people who attested to quickie grades should all be declared, and everyone since then, theyre all liers!

There really shouldnt be many left inside if that was done:dieslaughing:

[La La Lou Lou]

Just a thought, Just a Guy, when youre saying DM beats his staff, that's not a euphomism is it?

I mean it's fine to say he throws people in the brink, or beats them a little bit, in a playful way, but to suggest he masturbates is really a step too Far!:whistling:

[OliviaZero]

I mean it's fine to say he throws people in the brink, or beats them a little bit, in a playful way, but to suggest he masturbates is really a step too Far!:whistling:

My mind goes there everytime I read the words "beats his staff", actually. I guess I can't shake my inner 12-year-old. Maybe Scientology can help me with that. :wink2:

[La La Lou Lou]

Olivia, darling, leave your inner 12 year old alone!:melodramatic:

Seriously, the inner 12 year old is good, giggle more, it's fun!:happydance:



La La

[clamicide]

Clamicide: what if it were hilarious in spite of the fact that it was your life? because it was your life?

What if one is truly healed when they can look back at their suffering and laugh?

Actually, I do laugh my ass off...but, I got one sick sense of humor.:D

And on another note, what is UP with the Purif? I think I spent waaaaaaaay too long in the sauna because I didn't want to false attest. Funny, though, I comped my second one the day before a concert I was going to attend at a winery....and I REALLY wanted some wine at the thing. Seriously thought I was just putting in a Tone 40 Postulate at the time to comp by then. Yikes. It's so pathetic!

[uniquemand]

I confess to having an evil purpose for doing the Purif. I figured taking drugs again would be like "for the first time"!

"Like a virgin..."

[Unperfekt]

This thread has really blown up since this morning... I hope that it's been a little cathartic, and for me it's been very entertaining and informative. Thanks everyone! :)

[Ted]

Just a thought, Just a Guy, when youre saying DM beats his staff, that's not a euphomism is it?

I mean it's fine to say he throws people in the brink, or beats them a little bit, in a playful way, but to suggest he masturbates is really a step too Far!:whistling:


:dieslaughing:

Damn. I am so dense. Wish I had thought of that one!

:dieslaughing:

[Ted]

False attest?

No, never...

Well, kind of...

Everyone who completes OT-3 attests to "no more BTs."

Now start of OT-4 or the OT-drug Rundown. "Hello, what's this?" More BT's!

Okay, ready for OT-5? Oops! More BTs!

Damn! :duh:

[La La Lou Lou]

:eyeroll: Perhaps I just have a filthy mind, or maybe Id just like to think of him as doing what any healthy male mamal tries to do. Oh yes, and plenty of female ones too.

[Panda Termint]

False attest?

No, never...

Well, kind of...

Everyone who completes OT-3 attests to "no more BTs."

Now start of OT-4 or the OT-drug Rundown. "Hello, what's this?" More BT's!

Okay, ready for OT-5? Oops! More BTs!

Damn! :duh:
That hardly fits the definition of False Attest but if they were to include the phrase "that I am currently aware of" in the EPs of these Levels, it might cause some to refuse to Attest at all. :)