Embarrassed to be a scientologist

[well_that_sucked]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit.

As I looked back I had to admit I was also embarrassed to be a scientologist and extremely reluctant to admit it.

Why?

I think because deep down, I knew it was a scam, and I didn't want to explain myself or the weirdness of scientology. Besides the fact it is impossible to explain scientology without sounding like a retard, if you are not a scientologist, scientology it is retarded.

How many people have we known that keep doing ethics conditions for the same problems and never get anywhere?

How many people have we seen receive auditing only to be more fucked up and weirder than before?

How many people have we seen exit the Pro TRs looking bug eyed and seriously changed, and not in a good way?

How many people have we seen cornered by the regs, the SO and staff recruiters, and the IAS until they cracked?

How many SO members have we seen beaten down, exhausted, pressured?

It's the truths and observations that we continued to dismiss and disregard as failures to apply scientology correctly. The truth makes me wince. We were applying it correctly, that is why people got fucked.

I think that is a major reason why I was embarrassed to admit being a scientologist.

I did not protect myself, and I did not protect others, even as I saw the abuses, failures and contradictions of scientology technology, and the damage it had on people.

As scientologists we participated and contributed and turned a blind eye as we and the people around us were continually used and victimized by an evil and retarded cult. For money

[Tim Skog]

Yes, it is a nasty thing.

[Wisened One]

When I got out *for real* in 2004, only slowly would I allow myself to step back and see that I was involved in a wacky subculture/society all its own in the world of $cientology.

I also felt ashamed to admit it to others in life. Not only that, felt it would discredit msyelf any further if I ever gave any advice or was into some new product, etc. and try to share that with others....they'd automatically not listen to me due to me having been duped and in a cult, etc. Ya know?

I don't really feel I was screwed up by my auditing or even many of the courses...call me still brainwashed regarding them, perhaps.... or I'm just taking from them what works for me and leaving the rest, Idk. :shrug:

I don't feel like I need to 'reverse' all the effects my auditing had on me, as actually I had some serious issues and personality bugs that imho the auditing helped, so I would never wish to reverse all that and perhaps bring back/magnify those same issues/bugs again.

YET....I KNOW now...as others here have said, that tons of abuse (on every level including experienced by my own Staff/scn experience) was done in the wings while I was getting my auditing.

I feel I've come out a stronger person in general. I"m so glad I am out of all that mess and not in any new ones (as far as groups...excluding this one of course, that kinda thing).

I realize I just rambled, hope ya get what I meant, tho? :unsure:

Michelle

[Kathy (ImOut)]

I wasn't very open about being a Scn while in. I actually became embarrassed about it after TC jumped on Oprah's couch. Now it's pretty much a joke that I was in.

My "mommy person" jokingly said the other day as we were driving to lunch (there were 5 of us in the car and I'm not sure two of the people knew my past), "it's a no wonder you're screwed up, you were a Jehovah's Witness and then a Scientologist!" It was too funny.

I then found out that one of the gals had almost signed a contract in the 80s with the CofS, but wasn't willing to give up everything in order to work there. She was truly only looking for a job.

[FinallyFree]

I was also embarrassed for some time. Is till feel twinges of it. I am working on forgiving myself – and using it to help others. I have actually started actively warning those who I talk to who haven’t been in. I can say: “I was in once and I can tell you IT IS A CULT.” I will talk to anyone about it and answer any question about it. I have friends I was on staff with that I now support emotionally. Just taking these small actions makes me feel like I am doing a small part to “make up” for the damage done while I was on staff or representing myself as a “successful scientologist”.

My goal to fully forgive myself and just warn as many people as I can use my knowledge and experiences – and particularly to be there for others who are out and going through the same things I did. I needed people to talk to, I felt very lost and alone at first. Finding people to talk to meant a lot to me so I figure I can at least do the same for others.

[CornPie]

...I then found out that one of the gals had almost signed a contract in the 80s with the CofS, but wasn't willing to give up everything in order to work there. She was truly only looking for a job.
At least she knew she had to give everything up to join staff. I had no idea, and they deceptively didn't disclose it in advance.

I've been embarrassed about scientology since I left staff 30 years ago. During that time I only mentioned it to probably 4-5 people. My family knew about it though, what a disgrace.

Within 3-4 months of finding ESMB, I started (truthfully) smearing scientology to people I know or meet. This was eerie at first, but now I do it about once a day. And for good measure, I make sure anybody closeby can overhear me. I think I'm making up for lost time. For me smearing them feels great, for you it might be another approach. But to try your act out, how about travelling to a strange town, striking up a conversation with somebody, and letting loose. I get just as big a kick out of it today as when I started out.

[uncle sam]

My question and I do wish for your thoughts is:
"How is it not embarrassing to have joined and participated in this cult'?

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Well, well, well, well_that_sucked.. I could've written that post.. Exept I was too embarrased!

Phfewwwrr! - I was acutely aware that it was a scam after 14 days at the GO.. I couldn't seem to be sure enough to get the hell out. There was these doubts.. But yes, I was aware that I was being chased around the arena like a right dumbass..

Ok, my wife and kids was what held me there for 5 years more (after I blew the GO).. When I sued their asses, their lawyers said that my wife and kids was why I left and now sued. :screwy:

So, yeah.. I was embarrassed to have been a scientologist. The whole experience is cringeworthy!

Lately I've decided that I need to scream and complain anbout it though.. In part because L.Ron Hubturd wanted me to STFU and be 'shuddered into silence'.. But mostly to warn people off the Scamcult..

:yes:

[Tiger Lily]

LOL -- Uncle Sam you are so right!!

When I first joined I was very proud of the fact that I was a Scientologist. I told all my friends, and tried to get them to join. I gave everybody Book 1 for Christmas. I quoted Hubbard on my bulletin boards at school, bought a classroom set of dictionaries (LRH approved edition), arranged for a Scientologist to speak at a faculty meeting about Study Tech. . . I even checksheeted a course. I posted my favorite book in the library as DMSMH

Then the TIME article came out. (1990 -91 --somewhere in there). All of a sudden I realized how stupid I looked. Strangely though, by then I was fully indoctrinated into the hubbard-think, and I knew this was the price you had to pay for freedom -- the SP's would attack.

So, I didn't believe the TIME article, but I knew that other people would. . . so I got very quiet after that . . . said didn't want all that "entheta" on my lines. (really I was just embarrassed) Since then I changed jobs and moved and I told NOBODY that I was a Scientologist . . I still won't. It's by far the most embarrassing thing I've ever done.

I have to say that being here has helped tremendously with that. It helps to know that you're in good company :D

-TL

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit.

As I looked back I had to admit I was also embarrassed to be a scientologist and extremely reluctant to admit it.

Why?

I think because deep down, I knew it was a scam, and I didn't want to explain myself or the weirdness of scientology. Besides the fact it is impossible to explain scientology without sounding like a retard, if you are not a scientologist, scientology it is retarded.

... snip ...

I think there are a lot of things that are simple and easy to explain, but the picture gets disturbed because you are supposed to disseminate Scientology, that is get the other person interested to such a degree that he buys a book or go to an org to get courses and auditing. Another thing you are taught to do as a Scientologist is to not tell anything but give them a "mystery sandwich" making them want to find out for themselves by going to an org or buying a book. A third agenda is that Scientologists are educated to not give "verbal tech" (meaning not verbally explaining or interpreting with your own words what it is about but instead refer people to source material). If you explain something from Scientology without the slightest trace of any of those agendas it can be quite easy to just explain or tell this or that.

Once I told a guy about engram and chains (Dianetics) without any other agenda but just telling him. It was quite easy and it made perfectly sense to him. But that was the end of it since I did nothing regarding selling him anything. And later on when we met we didn't talk about the subject for the simple reason that it wasn't relevant.

Another person I told that a main thing in Scientology is a belief that you are an immortal soul having a body. She didn't like that idea, but certainly understood what I meant as far as I could see.

Other times I told somebody something that I knew was real to them, but since it was already real to them they were of course not the slightest interested in studying the subject, why study something you already know?

Once I even made TR0 with a friend, because she wanted to try it out and we were sitting on a ferry with not much to do but talk philosophy and trying out the drill.

But of course it is very hard to disregard the 3 agendas mentioned above. There was a constant desire or urge to actually make people interested in becoming a Scientologist and that is disturbing.

[well_that_sucked]

Well, well, well, well_that_sucked.. I could've written that post.. Exept I was too embarrased!

Phfewwwrr! - I was acutely aware that it was a scam after 14 days at the GO.. I couldn't seem to be sure enough to get the hell out. There was these doubts.. But yes, I was aware that I was being chased around the arena like a right dumbass..

Ok, my wife and kids was what held me there for 5 years more (after I blew the GO).. When I sued their asses, their lawyers said that my wife and kids was why I left and now sued. :screwy:

So, yeah.. I was embarrassed to have been a scientologist. The whole experience is cringeworthy!

Lately I've decided that I need to scream and complain anbout it though.. In part because L.Ron Hubturd wanted me to STFU and be 'shuddered into silence'.. But mostly to warn people off the Scamcult..

:yes:

LOL as for screaming and complaining.. when I feel the urge, often due to knuckleheads slobbering scientology works... I just pass out 1000s of YFTC (http://www.youfoundthecard.com).

I'm hoping it helps put a few shillings back in the ole karma depository after contributing to the mind fuck called scientology while easing my conscience at the same time

[AnonOrange]

My enturbulation technique involves a lot of embarrassment for the scientologists (and sometimes myself intentionally). It think it's effective and your post re-affirms that.

Nobody wants to be made fun of. It may help make them "give up" and blow. They'll say: I've had enough of the crap, I'm out.

That's what I'm hoping.

[Off Policy]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit.

As I looked back I had to admit I was also embarrassed to be a scientologist and extremely reluctant to admit it.

Why?

I think because deep down, I knew it was a scam, and I didn't want to explain myself or the weirdness of scientology. Besides the fact it is impossible to explain scientology without sounding like a retard, if you are not a scientologist, scientology it is retarded.

How many people have we known that keep doing ethics conditions for the same problems and never get anywhere?

How many people have we seen receive auditing only to be more fucked up and weirder than before?

How many people have we seen exit the Pro TRs looking bug eyed and seriously changed, and not in a good way?

How many people have we seen cornered by the regs, the SO and staff recruiters, and the IAS until they cracked?

How many SO members have we seen beaten down, exhausted, pressured?

It's the truths and observations that we continued to dismiss and disregard as failures to apply scientology correctly. The truth makes me wince. We were applying it correctly, that is why people got fucked.

I think that is a major reason why I was embarrassed to admit being a scientologist.

I did not protect myself, and I did not protect others, even as I saw the abuses, failures and contradictions of scientology technology, and the damage it had on people.

As scientologists we participated and contributed and turned a blind eye as we and the people around us were continually used and victimized by an evil and retarded cult. For money
Oohh. This is a great post. I would love to slip into my local Org and wallpaper the entire lobby with it. :yes:

[Tiger Lily]

My enturbulation technique involves a lot of embarrassment for the scientologists (and sometimes myself intentionally). It think it's effective and your post re-affirms that.

Nobody wants to be made fun of. It may help make them "give up" and blow. They'll say: I've had enough of the crap, I'm out.

That's what I'm hoping.

AO -- from the perspective of a public member: It would have worked on me. I wanted to keep a low profile, and having Anons out there telling me what was wrong with the organization, and how uninformed I was, (and taking my photo) would have been a really good reason for me to stay away.

-TL

[CornPie]

My enturbulation technique involves a lot of embarrassment for the scientologists (and sometimes myself intentionally). It think it's effective and your post re-affirms that.

Nobody wants to be made fun of. It may help make them "give up" and blow. They'll say: I've had enough of the crap, I'm out. That's what I'm hoping.
When I was on staff, different people 'enturbulated' me 6 or 8 times. It was not coordinated, they all did it different ways, one day I just said, "I've had enough of this s***." You're absolutely right, people don't like to be laughed at, or sneered at. It all adds up.

I think 'enturbulation' is a joint effort, I think it helps if people hear it from a number of different sources, a number of different approaches, over a period of time, and you'll probably never know how successful you were. But one day their dam will hopefully break. In my case only one 'enturbulator' was outside the org, the remainder were just everyday people. And when I look back, I'm grateful to them all.

[A.K. Myers]

One other factor is that after you stop being on staff, what do you put
on your resume' to fill in the missing years. Imagine a resume that lists
former employer as "church of scientology."

Imagine the referral they would give for an ex member assuming the current
employer wasn't totally put off by your resume to begin with. "Scientology" on
your resume kind of sends the message "gullible" or "chump."

Imagine the response to listing ASHO as your place of education since you
blew off college to study hubbard's spew. The reg told you the "briefing course"
was the equivalent of a "masters level" education. Try and sell that to an
employer in this competitive job market. You want fries with that?

Fortunately for me, I had side jobs to pay the bills while I was on staff, but
what does an ex-sea-oger put down?

:coolwink:

[Voltaire's Child]

I'm not embarassed at all. I tell people I'm a former cult member. No one has ever looked down on me for it. I wouldn't have gotten into it if I hadn't been looking for something and there's nothing wrong with that.

[clamicide]

I was completely embarrassed when I was in. Totally. Hid it from all wogs. When I came out, and realized what a scam I'd been trapped by...oh, I was even more humiliated. One day I was in an ambulance being rushed to the hospital. And I said something about how I'd "been in a cult". Didn't realized I said it. (and the Ramones' "I Wanna Be Sedated" was playing in the ambulance tape player, and I was thinking..."damn, I gotta write a book someday) She asked what cult it was, and for the first time, I confessed it was "Scientology" Ya know...the gal was enthralled. :) Ohhh....she said it was so fucked up. And I also dished with some awesome hairdressers who gave me free champagne because they were digging on all the dirt.....:)

[CherryTree]

My mom put those 3 years in the SO in her resume as: Communications and management studies in the States. We live in Hungary though, that's why it works, because being able to study in the States is a good point.

[uniquemand]

I was embarrassed to be affiliated with Scientology, myself. Even while I was in. Sort of like going to Confirmation when I was a Catholic. Stupid cult is stupid.

[uniquemand]

My enturbulation technique involves a lot of embarrassment for the scientologists (and sometimes myself intentionally). It think it's effective and your post re-affirms that.

Nobody wants to be made fun of. It may help make them "give up" and blow. They'll say: I've had enough of the crap, I'm out.

That's what I'm hoping.

That was not what made me "blow". What made me leave was conflicting goals and purposes, and the realization that I was getting nowhere while on staff, that I had financial responsibilities I couldn't manage while working for free, and the lack of delivery, in general, in an org I was sacrificing to put into existence.

However, if some people are shamed out, good on ya. Everyone is different.

[AnonOrange]

working for free, and the lack of delivery

That's worse than slavery, at least slaves are productive !

There's a sign with those words.

I think I'm going to start a thread around that subject: Are churches good for the economy?

[well_that_sucked]

There are other things in regard to scientology that I am embarrassed about being involved in.

There is the course room.

People were sitting across from each other having staring contests, for hours, making gibberish statements to one another. Yelling at ash trays and each other.

There were people playing with playdoh, moving little pieces of nothing around, pretending they were parts of an honest concept. But they weren't honest concepts, it was the insanity of scientology they were shoving down their own throats. All while their mind choked on it, breaking the barrier to reject the illogical.

It goes on, we all know the drill.

There were people coming out of session looking wild eyed, making incoherent and gibberish statements about what just happened to them. Then off to the reg with the credit card in hand they went. A month later they're in ethics, doing lowers. Because they had to work extra hours to pay for the fraud and couldn't make it.

This part too goes on, and on.

And we all took it stride, and paid for our turn.

These were not just silly things, they are madness.

If being a part of that isn't embarrassing, nothing is.

[Tiger Lily]

Yea WTS -- that was embarrassing. . . . especially the fact that we considered it valuable.

The most embarrassing thing for me though, was trying to explain to my family and friends that this chain smoking, Sci-fi story man from the '50's happened upon the secret to unlocking the universe and I knew that this was the only way out. . . those bums like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna . . .those guys gave it a nice try, but they were just a shade above "clear", and LRH was . . . well. . . the "source". I did that with a straight face.

-TL

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I'm embarrassed every time I get a piece of Sceintology literature in the mail, when ever I see the mailman and he has some Sceintology propaganda for me, I feel like I just signed for a box that contained a blowup sex doll and a few vials of Viagra

[SweetnessandLight]

I just want to say how proud I am of you all for sharing your thoughts and feelings about this topic. Time to be real about it all. Now that you know the TRUTH, having experienced what you have experienced, you can speak it, and act upon your special knowledge of life that you would not have had except for those bad, embarrassing experiences. That is worth it's weight in gold. That, in and of itself, is something valuable that you can contribute to the world, no matter what else you are doing with your life, benefit society as a whole, and spare someone else from suffering.

The world as a whole needs you, now more than ever. You have the power in your hands, hearts, minds and voices to be mighty change agents in the world, and to be such a stong force for good. Working together for truth and to see justice done for all the victims of the church of Scientology is a wonderful way to be on purpose. That's nothing to be embarrassed about. Your story is not done yet, I am so proud of you all who are writing and reading on this site!

More power to you, and don't let any embarrassed feelings stop you from speaking or acting.

[Voltaire's Child]

The only time it ever bothered me was when other people were dickheads. This did not happen often. In fact, most people were cool about it. But every now and again, someone would go and be a dick and I'd be like, well, shit, I wasn't trying to convert you, this is none of your business, go be a dick somewhere else.

Here are some things that happened that made me see that some people can be intolerant (and this is before I found the internet, LOL!).

I was taking a bus one time and another girl my age was sitting next to me, and we were enjoying ourselves chatting. She asked me what my bracelet was (Clear bracelet) and I told her. Very briefly. Then she wouldn't speak to me the rest of the trip. Well, fuck, bitch, don't ask the question if you can't deal with the answer.

Another time I was walking out of the complex in LA on the way to the Manor, where I was staying. Some adolescent on a bicycle starting riding around asking me "are you from Scientology? Scientology sucks!" I didn't reply. But if it were to happen now, I wouldn't refrain from responding, that's for sure. The kid was an idiot.

Another time, a very good friend of mine (we were both in CofS then) was painting my rental house. He was disseminating to my tenants. I wasn't there. I never told them anything about Scn. So...later, John and I were there fixing something and the guy started grilling me about how I was in a cult and that my friend told him about it. I hadn't, prior to that, realized that my friend had A) dissem'd to my tenants - which I wouldn't have minded except he B) told those two dipshits that John and I were also members. Of course I was terribly impressed to hear that from a druggie who beat his pregnant girlfriend.

I certainly did make it a habit to keep my religion to myself, yes. But only because I knew that others - not I- sometimes could not handle it or behave properly.

Bottom line- anyone who has any problem with the ideological or cultic choice of others who would actually make it known to that other person, thus putting them on the spot and embarassing them, is the one with the problem.

Yes, it's a bad idea to be in most cults. CofS is quite harmful. But anyone who would actually use that as an excuse to treat the person badly - when the person already is probably being royally screwed over by CofS- is a moron. Nobody should ever be embarassed by doing what he or she wants to do. Even when they find out they were wrong. So what. Once you know it's not the right thing, you say "I learned a life lesson from that" and you move on.

People will respect someone (who does so) a lot more if they do that than if they're all cringing and ashamed.

[uniquemand]

I'm embarrassed every time I get a piece of Sceintology literature in the mail, when ever I see the mailman and he has some Sceintology propaganda for me, I feel like I just signed for a box that contained a blowup sex doll and a few vials of Viagra

Won't you be my girl, Sally?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OKCHVekE7w&feature=related

[Martini]

I'm embarrassed every time I get a piece of Sceintology literature in the mail, when ever I see the mailman and he has some Sceintology propaganda for me, I feel like I just signed for a box that contained a blowup sex doll and a few vials of Viagra

LOL

[Carmel]

My question and I do wish for your thoughts is:
"How is it not embarrassing to have joined and participated in this cult'?
I get embarrassed at the drop of a hat, but I never felt embarrassed about being "in" Scn, and nor did I when I got out of it.

Maybe it wasn't embarrassing when I was in it, because I always had the church and the management as something separate to Scn itself (which at that time I believed was of immense value).

Maybe it's not embarrassing to me now, because I'd rather be and have more understanding of a person who was; looking, going for and supporting something they believed in, than a person; whose doors were closed and who cared more about the superficial things in life and his image, over the 'real' things, the 'real' issues and his fellow man.

Yes, we got suckered in - But better to be one who has hope, one who is willing to give something a chance and have a go, rather than someone who doesn't want to give, to grow and/or to learn.

Besides, for one thing, I don't regret my experience as a whole in Scn, and for another, it was a damn good con and it wasn't only the not so smart who got suckered.

[well_that_sucked]

I get embarrassed at the drop of a hat, but I never felt embarrassed about being "in" Scn, and nor did I when I got out of it.

Maybe it wasn't embarrassing when I was in it, because I always had the church and the management as something separate to Scn itself (which at that time I believed was of immense value).

Maybe it's not embarrassing to me now, because I'd rather be and have more understanding of a person who was; looking, going for and supporting something they believed in, than a person; whose doors were closed and who cared more about the superficial things in life and his image, over the 'real' things, the 'real' issues and his fellow man.

Yes, we got suckered in - But better to be one who has hope, one who is willing to give something a chance and have a go, rather than someone who doesn't want to give, to grow and/or to learn.

Besides, for one thing, I don't regret my experience as a whole in Scn, and for another, it was a damn good con and it wasn't only the not so smart who got suckered.

Hello Carmel, I think the majority of us suckers were smarter than average.

But like most things in life, there is a trade off.

Smarter, willing to help yourself and others often leads to trusting people that have no business being trusted. Naivety.

We were so smart, so anxious to learn and help, that we failed to heed the warning signs that were everywhere.

The embarrassment is in the mechanics, the doing, the contributing and the witnessing of the scientology con right in front of our faces.

Scientologists are nothing more than automated puppets, and the strings that control them are the tech.

[Carmel]

<snip>
Scientologists are nothing more than automated puppets, and the strings that control them are the tech.

I reckon Scientologists could be labelled lots of things - "automated puppets" is way off the mark for most who I knew/know.

[well_that_sucked]

I reckon Scientologists could be labelled lots of things - "automated puppets" is way off the mark for most who I knew/know.

Really?

Every Scientologist I ever met that was worth his cult weight in salt ran the same scientology programming rather than thinking for themselves and using common sense to solve their problems.

The tech was the only answer, the policies, the conditions, the this, the that. Using your own reason and logic outside the framework of scientology technology, for a cause or a solution, almost never happened.

Otherwise when we asked ourselves why life was harder than it should be, and a host of other things, we would have spotted the real problem; scientology.

After scientology people stopped thinking for themselves, and relied on the mind of hubbard through his policies to address life's problems.

Whether you want to admit it or not.

We were robotic tools of the cult, some still are.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I reckon Scientologists could be labelled lots of things - "automated puppets" is way off the mark for most who I knew/know.

Maybe "automated puppets" isn't the right description, I'd say it's more like "paranoid cattle". At the very sight of a protester, they are all very quickly herded up and taken into to the compound, like cattle being herded into a barn, and when not in the barn Scientologists are kept in a fenced in area which consists of Hubbard's version of reality and only Hubbard's version of reality

[AngeloV]

There is the course room.

People were sitting across from each other having staring contests, for hours, making gibberish statements to one another. Yelling at ash trays and each other.


Oh, god! LOL. Thanks for reminding me about the ashtrays. Yes, I yelled at astrays too. What the fuck was I thinking? "STAND UP!!" "THANK YOU!!" "SIT DOWN IN THAT CHAIR!!" It's a goddam ashtray, you idiot!

I'm glad I can laugh and laugh at that insanity now. However, I would hide in shame had anyone video taped me talking to an inanimate object.

[Alanzo]

When I got fully out 9 years ago, I moved back to the cornfields where I grew up and surrounded myself with all my old pre-Scientology friends. These were the people who'd known me all my life. They were the ones I'd eventually disconnected from to become a Scientologist.

Every once in a while, one of them will look at me and say, "How could you have believed that shit?" One by one, over the years, each of them would start a conversation on Scientology that way.

After a few of these conversations, I began to realize that they were talking about Xenu, and body thetans, and chain lockers and fair game tactics - all kinds of stuff that I did not believe, nor did I know even existed in Scientology when I was a Scientologist. This was information that they had read on the Internet, or seen on South Park, and was not generally available to me while I was getting in, and for the majority of the time I was a Scientologist.

Sometimes, using hindsight, its hard to remember things as they really were. Looking back on a particular time in your life, you tend to add in what you have learned since then. But what you have learned since then was not available to you then! In fact, what you have learned since then about Scientology was being actively hidden from you, and you were even being intentionally lied to about it! You have to remember the amount of effort that was used to deceive you to keep you being a Scientologist. It was an ONSLAUGHT!

Despite what L. Ron Hubbard told you - it wasn't ALL YOU.

You had lots of help in being deceived.

The fact is that once I saw exactly what was going on, despite their best efforts, I was out and warning others about it.

I'm not embarrassed about that. I'm proud of it.

I'm proud that, number 1, I am "weird" enough and brave enough spiritually to have done something so unconventional and rebellious as Scientology, and that once I had gotten high enough on the Bridge and was able to figure out the patterns of abuse that were actively being kept from me - I was gone.

And further, I am very proud that I immediately set to work to expose and de-power those mother fuckers and have never stopped.

Just as you all are doing right now.

Scientology, from the perspective of 9 years out, was a powerful lesson for me that has left me, on the whole, very much richer for the experience.

I would not trade it for anything.

[AnonOrange]

Fluffy, didn't this embarrassment, day after day, from friends, acquaintances and pure strangers eventually get to you and encouraged you to blow? That can't be bad right?

[AnonOrange]

In this video, this girl acts pretty much like me; I think this is the quickest way to oppose nonsense (I realize most of you disagree). You can spend months and months talking to people and it may have an effect in the long term, but a quick retort and ridicule, I believe can help someone out of their cognitive dissonance trap.
This type of public embarrassment, usually causes 1) people to stop proselytizing and often 2) to re-think their fundamental beliefs.
http://www.blogtv.com/Shows/760099/date/buTHZ2NxaeXvZmVHZH

I think the gen Y and kids raised on the internet have much less reverence to established creeds. I expect much more like her.

[uniquemand]

I am in complete accord, Alanzo. I'm not embarrassed about what I did, I'm only embarrassed that I didn't research it more thoroughly, and that I involved others, who I loved, and who were later totally controlled by the Church. This amounted to a betrayal, one which I didn't author, but which I still feel responsible for.

[Voltaire's Child]

Oh, god! LOL. Thanks for reminding me about the ashtrays. Yes, I yelled at astrays too. What the fuck was I thinking? "STAND UP!!" "THANK YOU!!" "SIT DOWN IN THAT CHAIR!!" It's a goddam ashtray, you idiot!

I'm glad I can laugh and laugh at that insanity now. However, I would hide in shame had anyone video taped me talking to an inanimate object.


What I find interesting about various posts I see about that particular upper indoc TR is that they never mention that the yelling is only one part of the drill, that there's a part where one speaks in a normal tone of voice and a part where one is silent. Therefore, the yelling comprises roughly one third of the drill. The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?:no:

[Voltaire's Child]

Fluffy, didn't this embarrassment, day after day, from friends, acquaintances and pure strangers eventually get to you and encouraged you to blow? That can't be bad right?


No.

I didn't feel embarassment. Ever.

The incidents I named were not embarassing (I've explained why) and were all the ones that happened over a number of years. So it was far from a daily basis. I'm a defiant person. Someone acting like an asshole about something I'm doing rather than just speaking with me like a normal decent human being does not ever ever ever make me stop doing what I'm doing.

I left the church- I didn't blow- because they wanted to stop me from posting to the internet and I wasn't even posting anything critical at the time. But they didn't want me on a.r.s., they kept interfering and treating me with contempt while still asking for more money and time. That was the last straw. They called me in for a meter check and I refused to do it. They implied they'd maybe mess with my marriage since I could have been expelled (which I later was) and then John, as a member in good standing, wouldn't be able to be with me. John made it clear that he doesn't roll over for shit like that. No Swazey ever rolls over. That's why I have exactly the reputation I have in critical venues and message boards. And bad cess to anyone who can't deal with it.

I am always in the driver's seat. I do not get intimidated or shamed into doing anything. I leave places (I recently ditched a 6 year job, too, by the way) because I think for myself and I act for myself.

[Zinjifar]

The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?:no:

Do you have a referrence for the above? Or, is it just 'Verbal Tech'?

Anyway, while, like most Scientology 'processes' there are multiple levels of mindfuck going on, the *primary* one would seem to be to get the PC used to following orders, even ridiculous ones, without question. It's a thread underlying most of the 'TRs'

Zinj

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

What I find interesting about various posts I see about that particular upper indoc TR is that they never mention that the yelling is only one part of the drill, that there's a part where one speaks in a normal tone of voice and a part where one is silent. Therefore, the yelling comprises roughly one third of the drill. The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?:no:


I don't think it's a question of not understanding the drill, I think it's more a matter of the drill not needing to be quite so retarded in order to get it's simple point across ... But then again that could be said for the vast majority of Hubbard's material.

[well_that_sucked]

When I got fully out 9 years ago, I moved back to the cornfields where I grew up and surrounded myself with all my old pre-Scientology friends. These were the people who'd known me all my life. They were the ones I'd eventually disconnected from to become a Scientologist.

Every once in a while, one of them will look at me and say, "How could you have believed that shit?" One by one, over the years, each of them would start a conversation on Scientology that way.

After a few of these conversations, I began to realize that they were talking about Xenu, and body thetans, and chain lockers and fair game tactics - all kinds of stuff that I did not believe, nor did I know even existed in Scientology when I was a Scientologist. This was information that they had read on the Internet, or seen on South Park, and was not generally available to me while I was getting in, and for the majority of the time I was a Scientologist.

Sometimes, using hindsight, its hard to remember things as they really were. Looking back on a particular time in your life, you tend to add in what you have learned since then. But what you have learned since then was not available to you then! In fact, what you have learned since then about Scientology was being actively hidden from you, and you were even being intentionally lied to about it! You have to remember the amount of effort that was used to deceive you to keep you being a Scientologist. It was an ONSLAUGHT!

Despite what L. Ron Hubbard told you - it wasn't ALL YOU.

You had lots of help in being deceived.

The fact is that once I saw exactly what was going on, despite their best efforts, I was out and warning others about it.

I'm not embarrassed about that. I'm proud of it.

I'm proud that, number 1, I am "weird" enough and brave enough spiritually to have done something so unconventional and rebellious as Scientology, and that once I had gotten high enough on the Bridge and was able to figure out the patterns of abuse that were actively being kept from me - I was gone.

And further, I am very proud that I immediately set to work to expose and de-power those mother fuckers and have never stopped.

Just as you all are doing right now.

Scientology, from the perspective of 9 years out, was a powerful lesson for me that has left me, on the whole, very much richer for the experience.

I would not trade it for anything.

I'd trade my scientology experience in a heart beat. No question.

I'd roll back the clock and complete my education straight away.

Instead of scientology's stunting bypass called a bridge, I'd take the linear path called life.

And of course I would trade in the scientology stench that permeated my brain for far too long, for anything.

You do not have to be weird to be a scientologist, or brave. You just have to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. But you do have to be brave to leave it all behind and accept you were completely conned.

Besides, there is nothing spiritual about scientology, unless you call soul crushing lies and manipulation spiritual.

[CornPie]

...like most Scientology 'processes' there are multiple levels of mindfuck going on, the *primary* one would seem to be to get the PC used to following orders, even ridiculous ones, without question...
Following orders, or putting up with nonsense, such as:
. agreeing to take a Communications Course as a condition of employment.
. on the first day of the course, not questioning TR0; staring somebody else in the face.
. once on staff, following orders of an 'ethics' officer, and agreeing to do lower conditions.

I'm embarrassed that I didn't; just say, "no".

[Voltaire's Child]

Do you have a referrence for the above? Or, is it just 'Verbal Tech'?

Anyway, while, like most Scientology 'processes' there are multiple levels of mindfuck going on, the *primary* one would seem to be to get the PC used to following orders, even ridiculous ones, without question. It's a thread underlying most of the 'TRs'

Zinj

Anytime we discuss "tech" here, it's "Verbal tech". The reference is the one and only reference that tells you how to do the drill. There is no other. I can dig it up when I'm home sometime.

[Voltaire's Child]

I don't think it's a question of not understanding the drill, I think it's more a matter of the drill not needing to be quite so retarded in order to get it's simple point across ... But then again that could be said for the vast majority of Hubbard's material.


The bulletin specifically tells the person what the "simple point" is and it says that this is why one is silent, speaks normally and yells, by turns, at the ashtray. The student reads that before doing the drill.

[pollywannacracker]

My embarrassment starts and stops with the fact that I didn't wake up to the fact that it's all about the money sooner than I did.

I didn't advertise my "religion" as I tend to not be a boastful person.

If someone asked me a direct question about an ability to handle a particular situation and why I was good at it, I tended to say that I practiced the handling. Sometimes I would go deeper and pull a reference and go over it with the person.

But what truly caused my embarrassment down to the bone was the constant regging for more money for books, courses, etc... The Basics being issued/reissued became my big button - but then I acted on it and now I am here.

Do I regret my decisions? No. I don't think that anyone should regret their decision for having gone down this road. We were all looking for betterment of our own persons, lives, ability to handle others and what comes down our paths.

I think that we are much more enlightened and have a vast pool of knowledge to draw upon which will enable us to make wiser choices in the future. And that is one thing I am not embarrassed about. :yes:

[well_that_sucked]

My embarrassment starts and stops with the fact that I didn't wake up to the fact that it's all about the money sooner than I did.

I didn't advertise my "religion" as I tend to not be a boastful person.

If someone asked me a direct question about an ability to handle a particular situation and why I was good at it, I tended to say that I practiced the handling. Sometimes I would go deeper and pull a reference and go over it with the person.

But what truly caused my embarrassment down to the bone was the constant regging for more money for books, courses, etc... The Basics being issued/reissued became my big button - but then I acted on it and now I am here.

Do I regret my decisions? No. I don't think that anyone should regret their decision for having gone down this road. We were all looking for betterment of our own persons, lives, ability to handle others and what comes down our paths.

I think that we are much more enlightened and have a vast pool of knowledge to draw upon which will enable us to make wiser choices in the future. And that is one thing I am not embarrassed about. :yes:

Do you think Lisa McPherson would regret her decision to be a scientologist if she knew what was in store for her?

What about Heribert Pfaff?

Noah Antrim?

John Buchanan?

Albert Jaquier?

Roxanne Friend maybe?

I guess its a stupid question, because they are all dead, and there are many others.
Link (http://whyaretheydead.info/)

The vast pool of knowledge you speak of is only useful for one thing, fucking people.

Each time we give scientology credit, or think its somehow valuable, we deny the truth of our own experiences, and those that paid with their lives.

Now THAT's embarrassing.

[uniquemand]

Yes. It's either black or white.

[FinallyMe]

Snip -- The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?:no:

Yes, I did - the problem was that I GOT it, having simply read the bulletin - doing the drill was overrun because I knew how it was going to come out - nothing was going to happen, just like the drill said, so it felt stupid.

But AT LEAST I didn't have the mortifying experience that the ASHO students had (old ASHO) - many of them were doing the drill outside, with non-Scn's all around! I'd have died!

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

What I find interesting about various posts I see about that particular upper indoc TR is that they never mention that the yelling is only one part of the drill, that there's a part where one speaks in a normal tone of voice and a part where one is silent. Therefore, the yelling comprises roughly one third of the drill. The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?:no:
Well, the purpose of the drill is clearly expressed in the course material, and you are not allowed to do the drill without reading the course material first. It is a bit hard to believe that someone would think that the purpose of the drill is about shouting.


Do you have a referrence for the above? Or, is it just 'Verbal Tech'?
... snip ...

I found my old HAS course booklet, it is more than 35 years old but I still have it although I haven't done any of those drills for years. Anyway, the booklet contains the TRs 0-9. The material on TR 8 (the drill with the ashtray) is rather precise. It emphasizes as clear as crystal, that intention has nothing to do with words and that intention has nothing to do with voice. The drill is done in different ways, by shouting, by using normal voice, by using the wrong words and by 100% silence. I remember it as a fun way to exercise one's ability to focus.

[Voltaire's Child]

Hello, Soulful One,

I've seen so many posts on various critical forums about the yelling at ashtrays thing. And many (though not all) of them were written by ex members. On and on about the yelling. Yet each of them read the HCOB before doing the drill.

I know exactly what this is...

[well_that_sucked]

Well, the purpose of the drill is clearly expressed in the course material, and you are not allowed to do the drill without reading the course material first. It is a bit hard to believe that someone would think that the purpose of the drill is about shouting.



I found my old HAS course booklet, it is more than 35 years old but I still have it although I haven't done any of those drills for years. Anyway, the booklet contains the TRs 0-9. The material on TR 8 (the drill with the ashtray) is rather precise. It emphasizes as clear as crystal, that intention has nothing to do with words and that intention has nothing to do with voice. The drill is done in different ways, by shouting, by using normal voice, by using the wrong words and by 100% silence. I remember it as a fun way to exercise one's ability to focus.

A fun way to focus is to talk and yell at inanimate objects like an ashtray?

Will a 'mater do?

http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/tomato.jpg

I guess the hubturd figured if he's going to convince people they can talk to dead aliens on the ot levels, having them talk to ashtrays is a good place to start.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes, I did - the problem was that I GOT it, having simply read the bulletin - doing the drill was overrun because I knew how it was going to come out - nothing was going to happen, just like the drill said, so it felt stupid.

But AT LEAST I didn't have the mortifying experience that the ASHO students had (old ASHO) - many of them were doing the drill outside, with non-Scn's all around! I'd have died!

Yes, doing it outside would be ridiculous. It would be a breach of all the policies that say not to alienate people with an "Out R" situation...I always did the drill in a basement or store room or something like that.

Now, re yr first paragraph-- I have noticed, in general, in life, that there's a difference between intellectually getting or understanding something and in truly getting or grokking it, so to speak. It is my opinion that this is why that drill and other drills are done.

[Alanzo]

This thread is permeated with a negativity, denial, and bitterness that will eat you alive.

There is nothing at the end of that road. It is self-destructive, self-denying, and just as untruthful as the happy-clappy, rah! rah!, SCIENTOLOGY WORKS! viewpoint.

The reason it will eat you alive, as an ex-Scientologist, is because it is NOT TRUE.

After 9 years as an EX, and as one who has been through that phase of getting out, let me tell you why:

You got something out of it - or else you would have never gotten involved.

Denying that is denying your true self, and it is denying a purpose you created for yourself long before you ever met up with Scientology, and one that you will have long after Scientology. In the end, Scientology was just one way-station you stopped at along your way. It does not define you, nor does it define the purpose you created for yourself and the way you intended to live your life.

To thine own self be true.

It is very easy to make it all wrong, but it is destructive and wasteful. And it is a lie you tell yourself for your own vanity.

Stop it.

[olska]

I don't think it's a question of not understanding the drill, I think it's more a matter of the drill not needing to be quite so retarded in order to get it's simple point across ... But then again that could be said for the vast majority of Hubbard's material.

Ummm, ya, so true!

It's part of the "training" which imo is designed to gradually convince you that you know something reeely reeely special and important and valuable...

...while in fact it takes your attention from the broad arena of life with all its many challenges and opportunities and focuses it exclusively on the very narrow path of scientology's Bridge to Financial and Emotional Bankruptcy.

don't forget: more than half the "gains" of scientology are from training!

[well_that_sucked]

This thread is permeated with a negativity, denial, and bitterness that will eat you alive. There is nothing at the end of that road. It is self-destructive, self-denying, and just as untruthful as the happy-clappy, rah! rah!, SCIENTOLOGY WORKS! viewpoint.

The reason it will eat you alive, as an ex-Scientologist, is because it is NOT TRUE.

After 9 years as an EX, and as one who has been through that phase of getting out. let me tell you why:

You got something out of it - or else you would have never gotten involved.

Denying that is denying your true self, and it is denying a purpose you created for yourself long before you ever met up with Scientology. And one that you will have long after Scientology.

To thine own self be true.

It is very easy to make it all wrong, but it is destructive and wasteful.

Stop it.

I am being very true to myself.

People have died, been driven to suicide, conned out of all their money, and a list of other sordid acts as a result of the proper application of scientology technology.

The same technology that is being used on people right now, in and out of scientology proper.

Why is it the FZ chronies, and the slithering weaselly types, can spew how great scientology is with impunity, but expressing very real and honest emotions like; anger for being conned, embarrassment for talking to ashtrays, and guilt for helping the cult screw over society, isn't acceptable to you?

Should we only make the "mother fuckers" pay in the manner you see fit?

Scientology is a brutal joke on all of us, the problem is, its not very funny.

[Alanzo]

I am being very true to myself.

People have died, been driven to suicide, conned out of all their money, and a list of other sordid acts as a result of the proper application of scientology technology.

The same technology that is being used on people right now, in and out of scientology proper.

I completely agree with you.

But YOU did not do that. YOU were doing something else.


Why is it the FZ chronies, and the slithering weaselly types, can spew how great scientology is with impunity, but expressing very real and honest emotions like; anger for being conned, embarrassment for talking to ashtrays, and guilt for helping the cult screw over society, isn't acceptable to you?It is totally acceptable to me. In fact, I engage in it often.

I have felt that guilt, and that embarrassment, and that anger. I have indulged it like a very fat man in a cake factory.

I'm just imparting what I learned from indulging it oh so lusciously.

It leads no where, and it denies the part of you, the GOOD part of you that was pursuing a worthwhile purpose before you got "trolled" by L Ron Hubbard.

There was a guy on ARS - Jommy Cross - who had that as his sigline: "Hubbard trolled you."

And it is true.

And that's all he did.

Yes, people died. But did you kill them? No.

L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige did.

If you do not look at the real good that was done you are denying part of the truth.

Is that bolded statement above right or wrong?


Should we only make the "mother fuckers" pay in the manner you see fit? You don't make the mother fuckers pay by doing yourself in. That's what THEY were doing!

That's not what you were doing.


Scientology is a brutal joke on all of us, the problem is, its not very funny.Yes, it was brutal, it was a fucking joke, and it isn't funny.

BUT THERE IS A LESSON IN THAT.

And if you do not get the lesson, you just die in a pile of shit, and are swept away by something YOU never did to yourself.

What were YOU doing to yourself with Scientology?

[olska]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit. <snip>

Not the first, nor the most, nor surely the last -- as embarrassing episodes go, my past support of scientology is running behind

... the time I got drunk at a college concert and decided I should get up on the stage and sing with the band (a song I loved, but for which when it came down to it I knew neither the words nor the tune)

... the oh so serious "epic poem" I submitted to an English teacher who, though he tried, could not stop laughing when he critiqued it.

... and several escapades, adventures, and misjudgments, some of which affected others in ways I did not foresee and now regret, all of which are too private to detail here.

Oh well -- so much for dignity lost!

Thank you for starting this thread, and for your honesty -- I sincerely hope that sharing your experience and your feelings will bring you relief as it does so many of us.

[uncle sam]

I am being very true to myself.

People have died, been driven to suicide, conned out of all their money, and a list of other sordid acts as a result of the proper application of scientology technology.

The same technology that is being used on people right now, in and out of scientology proper.

Why is it the FZ chronies, and the slithering weaselly types, can spew how great scientology is with impunity, but expressing very real and honest emotions like; anger for being conned, embarrassment for talking to ashtrays, and guilt for helping the cult screw over society, isn't acceptable to you?

Should we only make the "mother fuckers" pay in the manner you see fit?

Scientology is a brutal joke on all of us, the problem is, its not very funny.

I like the way you say what you have to say....and.... it just so happens that you expressed - my sentiments---thanks!

[well_that_sucked]

I completely agree with you.

But YOU did not do that. YOU were doing something else.



It is totally acceptable to me. In fact, I engage in it often.

I have felt that guilt, and that embarrassment, and that anger. I have indulged it like a very fat man in a cake factory.

I'm just imparting what I learned from it.

It leads no where, and it denies the part of you, the GOOD part of you that was pursuing a worthwhile purpose before you got "trolled" by L Ron Hubbard.

There was a guy on ARS - Jommy Cross - who had theat as his sigline: "Hubbard trolled you."

And it is true.

And that's all he did.

Yes, people died. But did you kill them? No.

L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige did.

If you do not look at the real good that was done you are denying part of the truth.

Is that right or wrong?



You don't make the mother fuckers pay by doing yourself in. That's what THEY were doing!

That's not what you were doing.



Yes, it was brutal, it was a fucking joke, and it isn't funny.

BUT THERE IS A LESSON IN THAT.

And if you do not get the lesson, you just die in a pile of shit, and are swept away by something YOU never did to yourself.

What were YOU doing to yourself with Scientology?

You almost had me, but that "what are your crimes" bullbait statement was just too much.

lol :coolwink:

[Alanzo]

You almost had me, but that "what are your crimes" bullbait statement was just too much.

lol :coolwink:

:)

"What are your crimes" is a completely wrong interpretation of what I was saying.

I am saying this:

Being embarrassed or guilty about having been a Scientologist is just as unsustainable as a way of life as being a Scientologist.

Indulge all you want. But that's all it is.

Pretty soon, being all embarrassed and guilty and mad and angry, you are going to look around and say, "Hey. This life is all based on a lie!" Just like you did when you realized that you needed to get out of Scientology.

After that, you will then have to discern the real truth of your existence. The whole you - the one before and the one after Scientology.

After that, you will find a pot of gold.

Spend it wisely.

(I'm an arrogant son of a bitch, aren't I? :D)

[flagtrained]

I have been out of Scientology for almost a week now and I find it very difficult to tell anyone about my involvement in the Church. It's very depressing to explain that I am now almost thirty years, have never had a boyfriend, was a Class VI and a C/S for a cult.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I have been out of Scientology for almost a week now and I find it very difficult to tell anyone about my involvement in the Church. It's very depressing to explain that I am now almost thirty years, have never had a boyfriend, was a Class VI and a C/S for a cult.


Look at the bright side you are finally out and free to starting living life now,


besides almost thirty is a great age to be, I wish I was still almost thirty

[CornPie]

This thread is permeated with a negativity, denial, and bitterness that will eat you alive....

...Stop it.
I believe the greatest value of this thread, is to others to read on the Internet, for years to come. If current scientologists read it, they will find a lot of truth, it may provide numerous justifiable reasons to blow. If former scilons read it, they will find their reasons listed, plus more they hadn't thought of. It doesn't make me more bitter, it gives me dozens of other justifications.

A 'large' part of the reason I left staff, was because I was totally embarrassed to be a scientologist. I remember telling that to the ethics officer, and regardless of the response, no reply could counter my resistance.

[olska]

I have been out of Scientology for almost a week now and I find it very difficult to tell anyone about my involvement in the Church. It's very depressing to explain that I am now almost thirty years, have never had a boyfriend, was a Class VI and a C/S for a cult.

Welcome to the board, and glad to hear you're out!

Don't despair -- it really is not too late to begin building a life to your liking.

I was just past 30 when I got out of a marriage which had sidetracked my life for about 10 years (how I got into it and why I stayed is another one of the embarrassing episodes of my life), and then got involved with scientology!

Now I am past 60 and have learned that life is full of new beginnings, new starts, new adventures, and often the most amazing and wonderful surprises.

You didn't ask for it, but here's some advice:

Get plenty of rest -- don't let yourself be made guilty about sleeping, napping, sitting still, doing nothing. If you let yourself "drift" with them, dreams (both daydreams and night dreams) are wonderfully healing and often bring amazing insights and inspiration.

Even if you feel a sense of urgency about making up for the time you've lost and getting on some program to get your life in order, don't rush into any long-term commitments until you've given yourself some time to "unwind" from the cult experience and restore your sanity.

Good luck to you!

[Alanzo]

I have been out of Scientology for almost a week now and I find it very difficult to tell anyone about my involvement in the Church. It's very depressing to explain that I am now almost thirty years, have never had a boyfriend, was a Class VI and a C/S for a cult.

Welcome, FlagTrained.

You are among people now who will never reg you, nor will they ever test - or disconnect from you - because of your loyalty to some ideology.

Make yourself at home.

You are among friends.

[Alanzo]

Olska wrote:


Now I am past 60 and have learned that life is full of new beginnings, new starts, new adventures, and often the most amazing and wonderful surprises.

I love Olska!

[well_that_sucked]

:)

"What are your crimes" is a completely wrong interpretation of what I was saying.

I am saying this:

Being embarrassed or guilty about having been a Scientologist is just as unsustainable as a way of life as being a Scientologist.

Indulge all you want. But that's all it is.

Pretty soon, being all embarrassed and guilty and mad and angry, you are going to look around and say, "Hey. This life is all based on a lie!" Just like you did when you realized that you needed to get out of Scientology.

After that, you will then have to discern the real truth of your existence. The whole you - the one before and the one after Scientology.

After that, you will find a pot of gold.

Spend it wisely.

(I'm an arrogant son of a bitch, aren't I? :D)

The day I take life advice from a man that claims he has been out of scientology for 9 years, has 9300 posts on ESMB, says his scientology experience enriched him, and I should be thankful for that scientology experience and STFU, is the day I'll rejoin the cult.

You're not arrogant, you're conniving.

[Alanzo]

The day I take life advice from a man that claims he has been out of scientology for 9 years, has 9300 posts on ESMB, says his scientology experience enriched him, and I should be thankful for that scientology experience and STFU, is the day I'll rejoin the cult.

You're not arrogant, you're conniving.

Thanks.

I can see that you are really sucking everything you can out of that shit about how all of Scientology and everyone involved was totally evil, and that you yourself was a total piece of shit for ever having anything to do with it.

So go ahead.

Splurge on it!

I myself have come to live in the real world.

There is no one here who understands the coercive social techniques, the hypnotic technology, and the out-right mafia bullshit that Scientology engages in. Nor is there many who have written about it more than I have.

But.

You do not know that. And that's all right.

You will have to live it, and eat it, for as long as you can stand it.

And then, when that period is all over, good luck to you.

For you will have a better life.

[CornPie]

...There is no one here who understands the coercive social techniques, the hypnotic technology, and the out-right mafia bullshit that Scientology engages in. Nor is there many who have written about it more than I have...
I haven't seen anything about scientology's "hypnotic technology" on ESMB. Could someone please provide a some hyperlinks?

[Alanzo]

I haven't seen anything about scientology's "hypnotic technology" on ESMB. Could someone please provide a some hyperlinks?

Here's one.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9682&highlight=trolling+for+business

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=787

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=2469

Fuck it:

Go here and look for yourself:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/search.php?searchid=1333399&pp=25&page=9 (http://www.forum.exscn.net/search.php?searchid=1333399&pp=25&page=9)

Go through all 9 pages of threads I have started on ESMB. Start with the opening posts of each.

Tell me I haven't been bitter, too.

I'm trying to tell you what I have learned from all that.

Take it or leave it.

But do not try to make me into a freezoner or a Scientologist.

Or a fucking hypnotist.

[well_that_sucked]

Thanks.

I can see that you are really sucking everything you can out of that shit about how all of Scientology and everyone involved was totally evil, and that you yourself was a total piece of shit for ever having anything to do with it.

So go ahead.

Splurge on it!

I myself have come to live in the real world.

There is no one here who understands the coercive social techniques, the hypnotic technology, and the out-right mafia bullshit that Scientology engages in. Nor is there many who have written about it more than I have.

But.

You do not know that. And that's all right.

You will have to live it, and eat it, for as long as you can stand it.

And then, when that period is all over, good luck to you.

For you will have a better life.

Missed it by that much. lol

Does being able to recognize hypnosis make you capable of hypnotizing people? Is there a difference?

What about a forum?

Would people that may have been previously hypnotized, or are still under hypnosis be easy targets? A forum does offer access, virtual anonymity, knowing the previous hypnotic technique, multiple logins, and previous success in doing so.

The same person(s) would probably need to be constantly present, continually posting what appears to be based on logic, or harmless, but actually introduces a confusion, right?

The hypnotists would need to have an enormous number of posts due to the number of members, topics, forums, and sub forums, right?

Anyway, I'm also embarrassed I pretended to feel better after session. What can I say? It was cheaper than being red tagged or regged.

[apple]

Embarrassed like many here, but this message board has cleared debris and given me much more to my arsenal.

I just say I have some darkness to my past. Then I say I was involved in the cult of Scientology for a short time. They accept it and and dont criticize and seem to be fascinated. I like to come clean like that. It works for me.

[uniquemand]

I didn't cheat myself on my auditing. If I didn't feel better, I said so.

Had I been public, and they had told me that I had to pay for more auditing to fix the bad auditing, or the failed auditing, I would have told them to buzz off.

As a staff member, whenever I had a session that left me feeling crappy or incomplete, I said so, and insisted on repair. When it didn't happen, it became a bigger and bigger issue. Eventually, I blew.

I can see why you'd think the whole thing was bullshit if you were ripping yourself off.

[Alanzo]

Missed it by that much. lol

Does being able to recognize hypnosis make you capable of hypnotizing people? Is there a difference?

What about a forum?

Would people that may have been previously hypnotized, or are still under hypnosis be easy targets? A forum does offer access, virtual anonymity, knowing the previous hypnotic technique, multiple logins, and previous success in doing so?

The same person would probably need to be constantly present, continually creating posts that appear to be based on logic, or harmless, but actually introduce a confusion, huh?

The hypnotists would need to have an enormous number of posts due to the number of members, topics, forums, and sub forums, right?

Anyway, I'm also embarrassed I pretended to feel better after session. What can I say? It was cheaper than being red tagged or regged.

You have to learn more about hypnosis, that's all.

Hubbard lied.

Hypnosis is neither bad nor good, it is part of being human.

Truly, W_T_S, good luck.

I really do wish you my best.

[Alanzo]

There is a point at which you graduate from Scientology.

And there is a point at which you graduate from being an Ex-Scientologist.

Neither point is easy.

But both are rewarding.

That's what I have to say.

I have documented everything I can on ESMB.

[well_that_sucked]

Missed it by that much. lol

Does being able to recognize hypnosis make you capable of hypnotizing people? Is there a difference?

What about a forum?

Would people that may have been previously hypnotized, or are still under hypnosis be easy targets? A forum does offer access, virtual anonymity, knowing the previous hypnotic technique, multiple logins, and previous success in doing so.

The same person(s) would probably need to be constantly present, continually posting what appears to be based on logic, or harmless, but actually introduces a confusion, right?

The hypnotists would need to have an enormous number of posts due to the number of members, topics, forums, and sub forums, right?

Anyway, I'm also embarrassed I pretended to feel better after session. What can I say? It was cheaper than being red tagged or regged.



You have to learn more about hypnosis, that's all.

Hubbard lied.

Hypnosis is neither bad nor good, it is part of being human.

Truly, W_T_S, good luck.

I really do wish you my best.


Alanzo, why won't you answer the questions I asked? I believe they are very relevant to all our interests.

I would think as an ex scientologist, and an expert on hypnotism, that you would be more than willing to share with the board's members to help protect them. You could help by explaining, in very simple terms, the things about the confusion technique, and hypnosis, they should look out for.

Or are all 3 of you going to post at the same time again?

[Alanzo]

Alanzo, why won't you answer the questions I asked? I believe they are very relevant to all our interests.

Are you now accusing me of trying to hypnotize you, and everyone else on ESMB?

Go to post number 73 of your thread and tell me that again.

[angel]

Are you saying alonzo posts under three different user id's?

I do not believe I received any hypnotism techniques while in Scn. I left very able and in PT.

I do agree with Alonzo on the fact that Scn has workable parts that are mixed with lies. This made it very difficult for me, going through many phases of being an Ex. Example being you are listening to coworkers talking to each other about two different things. They are not in comm. Intervene and communicate the main point of what the convo was supposed to be about, or you ack each and end the convo. Or in a confusion you pick a stable datum and start working on the problem and everyone stops freaking out.

For a long time I was not embarresed per se and just considered myself offlines and located very far away from any org or Scientologist. I still did not talk about it, but made it clear to family that Scientology was still my religion.

Frustrated with the WOG's I then entered a phase where I felt I could not live without scientology and that because scn had changed me personally that was now the only place where I fit in and belonged. I would travel a great distance and stay for the weekend to be on course up until I received a string of lies by the reg and my FSM.

Considering myself offlines again, I stopped referring to myself as a Scientologist. I still had a plan to educate myself as an online transcriptionist where I could travel to Flag and take my work with me, that probably wouldnt have worked, but that was my plan.

Like Kathy's post earlier on this thread, Tom Cruise made it absolutely embarrasing to be a Scientologist. I still considered myself offlines but could no longer admit to EVER being a Scientologist. People absolutely hate him. He is obviously damaged and deranged. He behaves like a child that never grew up and that is gross. I think games and fun are great, but I do not see any maturity there. He has what I call Michael Jackson syndrome.

I experienced a couple of phenomena while onlines that were never explained to me. The references put in front of me did not explain. No answer given to my origination. The experiences changed everything in my belief system and reality of the mest universe. After being patient for years I finally started searching the internet last year. Learning of Diantetics derivation in satanic ritual I became appalled and disgusted that I was practicing something I had been tricked into believing was a good thing. When I first became a Scientologist my christian brother left me newspaper clippings about the satanic connection that I did not bother to read. I had always been more intelligent than my brother and I now feel so stupid and humiliated for being sucked into this dark practice that I now consider EXPERIMENTAL AND DANGEROUS. The responsible thing to do, including FreeZoners is to disclose the true history and nature of this practice and have the pc sign a waiver if they still want to receive this.

I am embarrased and I am afraid if my co-workers knew they would lable me insane. :omg:

Jen

[Alanzo]

Are you saying alonzo posts under three different user id's?

I do not believe I received any hypnotism techniques while in Scn. I left very able and in PT.

I do agree with Alonzo on the fact that Scn has workable parts that are mixed with lies. This made it very difficult for me, going through many phases of being an Ex. Example being you are listening to coworkers talking to each other about two different things. They are not in comm. Intervene and communicate the main point of what the convo was supposed to be about, or you ack each and end the convo. Or in a confusion you pick a stable datum and start working on the problem and everyone stops freaking out.

For a long time I was not embarresed per se and just considered myself offlines and located very far away from any org or Scientologist. I still did not talk about it, but made it clear to family that Scientology was still my religion.

Frustrated with the WOG's I then entered a phase where I felt I could not live without scientology and that because scn had changed me personally that was now the only place where I fit in and belonged. I would travel a great distance and stay for the weekend to be on course up until I received a string of lies by the reg and my FSM.

Considering myself offlines again, I stopped referring to myself as a Scientologist. I still had a plan to educate myself as an online transcriptionist where I could travel to Flag and take my work with me, that probably wouldnt have worked, but that was my plan.

Like Kathy's post earlier on this thread, Tom Cruise made it absolutely embarrasing to be a Scientologist. I still considered myself offlines but could no longer admit to EVER being a Scientologist. People absolutely hate him. He is obviously damaged and deranged. He behaves like a child that never grew up and that is gross. I think games and fun are great, but I do not see any maturity there. He has what I call Michael Jackson syndrome.

I experienced a couple of phenomena while onlines that were never explained to me. The references put in front of me did not explain. No answer given to my origination. The experiences changed everything in my belief system and reality of the mest universe. After being patient for years I finally started searching the internet last year. Learning of Diantetics derivation in satanic ritual I became appalled and disgusted that I was practicing something I had been tricked into believing was a good thing. When I first became a Scientologist my christian brother left me newspaper clippings about the satanic connection that I did not bother to read. I had always been more intelligent than my brother and I now feel so stupid and humiliated for being sucked into this dark practice that I now consider EXPERIMENTAL AND DANGEROUS. The responsible thing to do, including FreeZoners is to disclose the true history and nature of this practice and have the pc sign a waiver if they still want to receive this.

I am embarrased and I am afraid if my co-workers knew they would lable me insane. :omg:

Jen

There's just one Alanzo. I swear.

Ask Emma. She knows.

I very much appreciate your truthful expression of the jihad you have experienced on your own personal spiritual path.

Now, anyone who does not feel comfortable considering my ideas will be able to accuse me of being a Muslim because I used the word "Jihad".

Then, branded as a Muslin Extremist, (instead of an "SP") no one will ever have to listen to any idea I write ever again.

Thanks Jen. Our own paths, ultimately, are the ones we owe ourselves to, and the ones which we must follow.

I was an Ex-Scientologist.

[xseaorguk]

I will never forget one experience I had after just getting out of the Sea Org almost 30 yrs ago.
I had returned to my parents house and was recovering from the SO experience, but decided to visit some old local school-friends.
Just over 2 yrs had passed.

I walked by this old friends house and knocked (we're talking about the old days of no telephone or mobile phones).
My old school-friends mother answered the door.
It was quite an old fashioned household, I think his parents were slightly older than mine, but my friend had received the highest marks in his exams and there were rumours that he was going to go to Oxford University.
She spoke with a refined middle-class accent, and was charming.
She invited me in for a cup of tea.
We went into the front room, where I could see pictures of my old friend on the mantle-piece.
Wedding photos.....
Wow, where had the time gone?
It seemed like yesterday that we were playing mini-snooker in this same front-room.
I asked about her son and she proudly explained about him having gone to Oxford and how he recently married.

I explained that 'I had been away for some time, but was hoping to catch up on things.

She then went on to explain that a mutual school-friend of ours had been caught up in some nasty cult.
It's funny but at the time I didnt even connect it to me personally.

I said to pass on the news that I had been there and left feeling rather awkward, almost regretting having been there.

I dont think I actually processed some of this stuff until years later, when I realized that these old school friends obviously didn't want any contact to me.
I think the news had done the rounds that I was involved in $cientology.

Now, being somewhat older and wiser I can see the damage this sort of stuff does to you.
I know its wrong to dwell on it and wonder what they thought of me, but I do sometimes do so, and also wonder how my life woud have developed without the cult.

[Alanzo]

I will never forget one experience I had after just getting out of the Sea Org almost 30 yrs ago.
I had returned to my parents house and was recovering from the SO experience, but decided to visit some old local school-friends.
Just over 2 yrs had passed.

I walked by this old friends house and knocked (we're talking about the old days of no telephone or mobile phones).
My old school-friends mother answered the door.
It was quite an old fashioned household, I think his parents were slightly older than mine, but my friend had received the highest marks in his exams and there were rumours that he was going to go to Oxford University.
She spoke with a refined middle-class accent, and was charming.
She invited me in for a cup of tea.
We went into the front room, where I could see pictures of my old friend on the mantle-piece.
Wedding photos.....
Wow, where had the time gone?
It seemed like yesterday that we were playing mini-snooker in this same front-room.
I asked about her son and she proudly explained about him having gone to Oxford and how he recently married.

I explained that 'I had been away for some time, but was hoping to catch up on things.

She then went on to explain that a mutual school-friend of ours had been caught up in some nasty cult.
It's funny but at the time I didnt even connect it to me personally.

I said to pass on the news that I had been there and left feeling rather awkward, almost regretting having been there.

I dont think I actually processed some of this stuff until years later, when I realized that these old school friends obviously didn't want any contact to me.
I think the news had done the rounds that I was involved in $cientology.

Now, being somewhat older and wiser I can see the damage this sort of stuff does to you.
I know its wrong to dwell on it and wonder what they thought of me, but I do sometimes do so, and also wonder how my life woud have developed without the cult.

Jeezus.

If I had a quarter for every parent encounter I had like that, I'd be able to buy lunch at McDonald's!

What is it about being a Scientologist that made you REALLY embarassed?

And why would you have changed everything just to remain un-embarrassed?

[Operating DB]

Hell, while fully immersed and a true believer while I was in the cult I was embarrassed to tell anyone I was in it! To this day, 24 years after leaving it all behind, I still find it embarrassing to tell anyone I was involved with it. If the subject does come up I never fail mention that it's very embarrassing for me. My best friend who was never in it will on occasion tease me about in front of other people that don't know I was in it. I guess there's something positive about this in that it's reverse dissemination and the more people learn about how stupid Scientology is the less chance someone will become a possible victim of it. So, go ahead. Embarrass the hell out of me. It's all for the good!

I cant believe to this day I'm still occasionally shedding layers of indoctrination. Yesterday I was walking around town where I first joined the cult at a mission. There is no longer a mission there. It moved out in 1978. I decided to stand in front of that building and reminisce and try to remember how things were laid out inside, the course room, registrar desk, the upstairs auditing room where I often got bogged in auditing. What a weird and uncomfortable feeling! That was a totally different life I had back then. 24 years later and still shedding the brain washings!

[Alanzo]

Hell, while fully immersed and a true believer while I was in the cult I was embarrassed to tell anyone I was in it! To this day, 24 years after leaving it all behind, I still find it embarrassing to tell anyone I was involved with it. If the subject does come up I never fail mention that it's very embarrassing for me. My best friend who was never in it will on occasion tease me about in front of other people that don't know I was in it. I guess there's something positive about this in that it's reverse dissemination and the more people learn about how stupid Scientology is the less chance someone will become a possible victim of it. So, go ahead. Embarrass the hell out of me. It's all for the good!

I cant believe to this day I'm still occasionally shedding layers of indoctrination. Yesterday I was walking around town where I first joined the cult at a mission. There is no longer a mission there. It moved out in 1978. I decided to stand in front of that building and reminisce and try to remember how things were laid out inside, the course room, registrar desk, the upstairs auditing room where I often got bogged in auditing. What a weird and uncomfortable feeling! That was a totally different life I had back then. 24 years later and still shedding the brain washings!

Obviously, you are still an Ex-Scientologist. Still robotically controlled by the teachings of L Ron Hoover, but fighting against them!

When will it ever end?

[Scn.Hun]

Hell, while fully immersed and a true believer while I was in the cult I was embarrassed to tell anyone I was in it! To this day, 24 years after leaving it all behind, I still find it embarrassing to tell anyone I was involved with it. If the subject does come up I never fail mention that it's very embarrassing for me. My best friend who was never in it will on occasion tease me about in front of other people that don't know I was in it. I guess there's something positive about this in that it's reverse dissemination and the more people learn about how stupid Scientology is the less chance someone will become a possible victim of it. So, go ahead. Embarrass the hell out of me. It's all for the good!

I cant believe to this day I'm still occasionally shedding layers of indoctrination. Yesterday I was walking around town where I first joined the cult at a mission. There is no longer a mission there. It moved out in 1978. I decided to stand in front of that building and reminisce and try to remember how things were laid out inside, the course room, registrar desk, the upstairs auditing room where I often got bogged in auditing. What a weird and uncomfortable feeling! That was a totally different life I had back then. 24 years later and still shedding the brain washings!

I was also always very embarrassed being in Scientology except the first few weeks. After that I never told anyone about it and I regretted that I had already told it to some people.
But I am very proud of one thing. I never recruited or got anyone into Scientology. I always thought that it sounded to good to be true, so I just wanted to become Clear. If I can do everything written in the Dianetics book, then I will get everybody into Scientology. As you can imagine, it just didn't happen. :whistling:

[degraded being]

There is a point at which you graduate from Scientology.

And there is a point at which you graduate from being an Ex-Scientologist.

Neither point is easy.

But both are rewarding.

That's what I have to say.

I have documented everything I can on ESMB.



You might experience it in that way but others might not, or they may use such different terms to describe their transitions that your terms don't match what they feel they are experiencing.

[Happy Days]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit.

As I looked back I had to admit I was also embarrassed to be a scientologist and extremely reluctant to admit it.

Why?

I think because deep down, I knew it was a scam, and I didn't want to explain myself or the weirdness of scientology. Besides the fact it is impossible to explain scientology without sounding like a retard, if you are not a scientologist, scientology it is retarded.

How many people have we known that keep doing ethics conditions for the same problems and never get anywhere?

How many people have we seen receive auditing only to be more fucked up and weirder than before?

How many people have we seen exit the Pro TRs looking bug eyed and seriously changed, and not in a good way?

How many people have we seen cornered by the regs, the SO and staff recruiters, and the IAS until they cracked?

How many SO members have we seen beaten down, exhausted, pressured?

It's the truths and observations that we continued to dismiss and disregard as failures to apply scientology correctly. The truth makes me wince. We were applying it correctly, that is why people got fucked.

I think that is a major reason why I was embarrassed to admit being a scientologist.

I did not protect myself, and I did not protect others, even as I saw the abuses, failures and contradictions of scientology technology, and the damage it had on people.

As scientologists we participated and contributed and turned a blind eye as we and the people around us were continually used and victimized by an evil and retarded cult. For money

Wow, I totally understand without a doubt as to where you are coming from. I too have felt the same. It was your very post that I felt I had to register on the ESMB after much past deliberation.

I felt I was the only one who had this conflict, However, after reading your post it became apparent that I was not.

I have so much emotion on this that I tear up at the thought of the pretense I had been under and not for a short amount of time over 25 years.

To confront this is very sobering and I would like to acknowledge you for your post. I will in the near future tell my story and your post will assist me in this part of my journey of confronting and being true to myself and others.

My love and respect goes to you.
Liz Anderson

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

Hello, Soulful One,

I've seen so many posts on various critical forums about the yelling at ashtrays thing. And many (though not all) of them were written by ex members. On and on about the yelling. Yet each of them read the HCOB before doing the drill.

I know exactly what this is...

Hmm, they seem to miss that the drill can in fact enhance one's ability to project intention with no counter intention, they have probably even seen that ability misused by someone who became very good at it and yet they argue about a silly thing. It is misuse of power there can be reason to be ashamed or embarrassed about not the elements of the drill.

Another thing is that there are stories around on people yelling at each other in the Sea Org, so the subject "yelling" does have a relevance, but yelling is not very efficient really, it puts focus on the yelling instead of putting focus on the intention that the yelling is meant to enhance. In the Sea Org I did have a senior who sometimes yelled and me an my junior. Well, my junior and I usually discussed the senior's fit or temperament when he was gone instead of carrying out the intention right away; such a discussion was of course not what the yelling was meant to introduce, but it nevertheless did. :) We even discussed the senior's postition in the room when he was yelling, and we realized that he was always positioned at a certain spot in the room when he was yelling. Thus if he arrived in the room and went to that spot we were prepared for a yell. If he went to any other place in the room we could just relaxe. To be fair I would say that my senior could also express great approval and praise when something was well done.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Jeezus.

If I had a quarter for every parent encounter I had like that, I'd be able to buy lunch at McDonald's!

What is it about being a Scientologist that made you REALLY embarassed?

And why would you have changed everything just to remain un-embarrassed?

Buying into a con man's scam, isn't necessarily embarrassing to me. The way I look at is "shit happens" ... but buying into a con man who believed that five billion years ago, whole-track psychiatrists from something called the The Maw Confederation pushed people's faces into supercooled sheets of glass as a method of brainwashing them ... is very embarrassing.

Yep knowing I bought into a confidence game by someone as batshit crazy as Hubbard is embarrassing, there's no other way of putting it.

[uniquemand]

I didn't buy into those beliefs. I bought into a method that was represented as being created by a guy who had those beliefs.

Turns out he was lying, and he was delusional. I'm embarrassed about involving others in the cult he created around his delusions, but not embarrassed about my own beliefs.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I didn't buy into those beliefs. I bought into a method that was represented as being created by a guy who had those beliefs.

Turns out he was lying, and he was delusional. I'm embarrassed about involving others in the cult he created around his delusions, but not embarrassed about my own beliefs.

you say tomato, I say tomahto, you call it a method, I call it confidence game.
Either way we are still referring to the same thing

[uniquemand]

The confidence game would be an addition to the method: the method "works", and then a confidence game built on the initial success sets up willingness to pay for and use methods that otherwise wouldn't have that confidence. Bait and Switch.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The confidence game would be an addition to the method: the method "works", and then a confidence game built on the initial success sets up willingness to pay for and use methods that otherwise wouldn't have that confidence. Bait and Switch.

The confidence game includes Hubbard's entire body of work he put together to create his Totalitarian cult, and that includes his bastardized mind control version of Jungian regressive therapy using a galvanic skin response meter known as auditing.

[uniquemand]

Are you saying you got nothing positive at all from Scientology, and that you were totally scammed from start to finish?

I'm sorry if that happened to you. In my case, I got some initial results that were precious to me, and these were leveraged into greater commitment than I desired, so I left.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Are you saying you got nothing positive at all from Scientology, and that you were totally scammed from start to finish?

I'm sorry if that happened to you. In my case, I got some initial results that were precious to me, and these were leveraged into greater commitment than I desired, so I left.

The product as a whole is a scam, and was designed to be a scam. Sceintology was designed to be a totalitarian cult, if you think is was meant to be anything else, you learned nothing about Hubbard from your experience. To search for positive components in Hubbard's scam makes about as much sense as searching for positive attributes about the methods other Totalitarian leaders such as Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Tojo, and Franco. What is the point, other than to antagonize their victims, or study their methods to prevent it from happening again in the future? Why would you want to pretend there is anything good about mind control?

[uniquemand]

I understand that the product as a whole is a scam. I also understand that the group operates as a cult. You aren't saying anything new to me, there, nor is there any need to tell me this: I'm already here.

Mind control infers a knowledge of how the mind works, which is positive. Using this to destroy people or manipulate them to become drones is a terrible crime. I'm not interested in such uses. I am interested in such knowledge.

I'm interested in effective psychology. There are elements of this in use in Scientology. I understand that large portions of dianetics and scientology are about dominating and controlling people for the sake of making money and establishing social control (in order to make even more money). None of this stops my interest in the aspects that "work". And there are some. Understanding what "works" and separating it from the scam is of interest to me.

I don't promote scientology, so there's no need to waste venom on me. I'm here to talk, not to sell!

[smartone]

I love this thread you guys, what a trip :D

I wasn't embarrassed at all after I got out. It was more like "What was I thinking?" I studied the scio diatribe for 22 years but only spent about $10,000 because I trained and co-audited. I've never been on staff or in the SO. Probably wouldn't have lasted anyway because I'm too strong-headed. I remember once in 1991 ripping the Celebrity Centre Int CO's face off one day in Qual :roflmao:

Some of the rudest, stupidist people I've known are Scientologists. Some of the nicest people I've known are wogs. The last straw was when I had to deal with yet another Scientologist's insane behaviour. I decided "Enough of this shit, I'm out of here". Anyway, I packed my bags and got all my stuff transported without anybody knowing where I was going. I'll never forget the feeling of relief I had sitting on that plane and planning my new life.

I was in doubt about Scientology for sometime anyway, checking out all the outpoints like "she's OT7 but so stupid" :duh: .I think you've all had those same thoughts one time or another. One OT8 I knew couldn't arrange a piss-up in a brewery. Plus I checked out all the internet data and really realised I had been duped once I checked out the xenu data. I had to laugh when I read it all.

During those 22 years in Scientology I couldn't be bothered disseminating it and am glad I didn't now. Mention book-selling to me and I would rather nail my tits to the wheel of an express train. However currently I am disseminating what Scientology really is and warning them of the various snide ways the church traps unsuspecting people and gets them hooked :thumbsup:.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I understand that the product as a whole is a scam. I also understand that the group operates as a cult. You aren't saying anything new to me, there, nor is there any need to tell me this: I'm already here.

Mind control infers a knowledge of how the mind works, which is positive. Using this to destroy people or manipulate them to become drones is a terrible crime. I'm not interested in such uses. I am interested in such knowledge.

I'm interested in effective psychology. There are elements of this in use in Scientology. I understand that large portions of dianetics and scientology are about dominating and controlling people for the sake of making money and establishing social control (in order to make even more money). None of this stops my interest in the aspects that "work". And there are some. Understanding what "works" and separating it from the scam is of interest to me.

I don't promote scientology, so there's no need to waste venom on me. I'm here to talk, not to sell!

If you are interested in psychology, then why not study the true form of the psychology Hubbard stole which he incorporated into his scam, instead of pretending it is Hubbard's or that his scam has some value. Hubbard was a con man plain and simple. If you are going to waste your time picking nuggets out of the huge pile of shit Hubbard created, why not study something less convoluted and that was actually designed to help people in the first place instead of controlling.

[uniquemand]

ChuckU! Who said I was studying Scientology anymore? This thread is about people being embarrassed to have been scientologists. I'm saying why I was and wasn't embarrassed, not that people should study scientology.

BTW, I do study psychology, and am back in school this fall to put that study towards a degree in social work. I already picked out the nuggets, as you put it, and switched my focus of study to metapsychology in 2001. Jung's work was bastardized, as you say, but even moreso was Freud. Freud has a bad name, these days, because many of his theories were stupid by today's lights, but he had some goodies, too.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

ChuckU! Who said I was studying Scientology anymore? This thread is about people being embarrassed to have been scientologists. I'm saying why I was and wasn't embarrassed, not that people should study scientology.

BTW, I do study psychology, and am back in school this fall to put that study towards a degree in social work. I already picked out the nuggets, as you put it, and switched my focus of study to metapsychology in 2001. Jung's work was bastardized, as you say, but even moreso was Freud. Freud has a bad name, these days, because many of his theories were stupid by today's lights, but he had some goodies, too.

You keep trying to claim there are components of Sceintology which are good, and I am stating that there is no point in trying to act as if Hubbard created Sceintology for any other purpose other than to create a totalitarian cult of brainwashed slaves. Sceintology was designed as a package, if you start picking it apart it is no longer Scientology. Trying to pick it apart until you find something good is disingenuous, the package was designed to control people and is rotten to the core.

[uniquemand]

You are talking to points I'm not making. Carry on.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

You are talking to points I'm not making. Carry on.

No I'm not, you have been and still are trying to convince people you can pick apart Hubbard's mind control cult to create something good out of it, and not just in this thread but in several other threads too. Now if you are not embarrassed by being a member of Sceintology then that is fine, in fact there is no point in being embarrassed about it. but don't act as if Sceintology is anything but a mind control cult. What you are doing is no different than trying to pick apart Jim Jone's Peoples Temple Cult and looking to compile the positive effects it's member got out of it before they drank the Kool-Aid in Jonestown.

[uniquemand]

I'm not trying to pick apart the cult. I tried to (and did) find the portions of "the Tech" which were based on valid therapeutic methods. Your tenses are getting mixed up. I'm not a member of the Scientology, and haven't been since about 1991. Your assertions that Scientology is NOTHING BUT a mind control cult are what I would contest.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I'm not trying to pick apart the cult. I tried to (and did) find the portions of "the Tech" which were based on valid therapeutic methods. Your tenses are getting mixed up. I'm not a member of the Scientology, and haven't been since about 1991. Your assertions that Scientology is NOTHING BUT a mind control cult are what I would contest.

And you could also make the same case for Jim Jone's People's Temple Cult, David Koresh's Branch Davidians or mind control cult being more than a mind control cult. It wouldn't change what they were anymore than it changes what Hubbard's mind control cult is. It is what it is.

[well_that_sucked]

There is a point at which you graduate from Scientology.

And there is a point at which you graduate from being an Ex-Scientologist.

Neither point is easy.

But both are rewarding.

That's what I have to say.

I have documented everything I can on ESMB.

We will always be ex scientologists, unless you have some way of changing the past?

The realities of the scientology experience cannot be ignored, or forgotten, because there are still people being manipulated without their knowledge, or permission. And they're paying for it in so many dreadful ways.

We should keep this in the forefront of our minds, pass the knowledge around to everyone we can.

So we never forget it or allow it to happen again.

It is our responsibility to overcome the processes that affected our minds so we can help others escape the trap.

But you would rather have us turn our backs on our fellow man, and leave them to rot, in the hell called scientology. People we know, people we cared about, family.

You want us to be quiet, placid, concerned with only ourselves? Funny thing is, that's the scientology way.

Which leads me to another thing about my time in scientology I was embarrassed about.

I was embarrased that I only gave value to the things the cult wanted me to and making sure others did the same.

People all around scientology suffered, under the duress and insanity created by it and its technology.

I was a spectator to the abuse, we were all spectators to the abuse, even when it was happening to ourselves. And that abuse is still happening.

[Dulloldfart]

I'm glad I can laugh and laugh at that insanity now. However, I would hide in shame had anyone video taped me talking to an inanimate object.

You never yelled at a TV or computer screen or some machine that went wrong?

Paul

[uncle sam]

We will always be ex scientologists, unless you have some way of changing the past?

The realities of the scientology experience cannot be ignored, or forgotten, because there are still people being manipulated without their knowledge, or permission. And they're paying for it in so many dreadful ways.

We should keep this in the forefront of our minds, pass the knowledge around to everyone we can.

So we never forget it or allow it to happen again.

It is our responsibility to overcome the processes that affected our minds so we can help others escape the trap.

But you would rather have us turn our backs on our fellow man, and leave them to rot, in the hell called scientology. People we know, people we cared about, family.

You want us to be quiet, placid, concerned with only ourselves? Funny thing is, that's the scientology way.

Which leads me to another thing about my time in scientology I was embarrassed about.

I was embarrased that I only gave value to the things the cult wanted me to and making sure others did the same.

People all around scientology suffered, under the duress and insanity created by it and its technology.

I was a spectator to the abuse, we were all spectators to the abuse, even when it was happening to ourselves. And that abuse is still happening.

Again and again- we are sharing the same thoughts---it's like you are reading my mind or vice a verse regarding this "cult"! I think for some that they are good and wish to see good--it makes life easy and very comfortable. It's hard to continually be "enraged"! But--I'm find that - I agree with all your rants about this "church" [I for one get the biggest kick out of people using the word "church"].

[Voltaire's Child]

Again and again- we are sharing the same thoughts---it's like you are reading my mind or vice a verse regarding this "cult"! I think for some that they are good and wish to see good--it makes life easy and very comfortable. It's hard to continually be "enraged"! But--I'm find that - I agree with all your rants about this "church" [I for one get the biggest kick out of people using the word "church"].

The problem is that the rants aren't just about the cult, they're about other contributors to this forum.

[FlunkedForLaughing]

I would get embarassed about being a Scn when I was a Scn. I remember one day the students of UC Santa Barbara made their annual tour of CCInt. They were instructed to not say a word, but just walk single file through the course rooms. I was helping someone with TR's, and sitting there staring at someone while 60 college kids silently walked by was embarassing. One set of students in the room were doing bullbaiting. Fortunately they had just finished some real wacky bullbaiting.

Oh, I just remembered, one Saturday at CCInt they had a wedding for some non-Scn's. A few guys from the wedding wandered in the hallway outside the courseroom. That day the courseroom was full, so we practiced our "Do Birds Fly?" in the hallway. Yes, it was quite embarassing, especially when we could hear them talking to themselves, basically saying "WTF? They're asking each other if birds fly!!! WTF??? I MEAN WTF!!!".

Now that I'm out, I'm not embarassed about having been a Scn. I find that very few people really care that I was into it. I have to keep it short and sweet if anyone asks about it. It's too easy for me to say such unbelievelably bad things about it. People tend to change the subject to something more comfortable. I did talk with one young lady who was interested in what it was all about. I gave her enough information for her to stay away. She would be the type to look into it from her curiosity, despite the weirdness, and she would get sucked in.

By the way, where is embarassed on the Tone Scale? I always felt LRH missed a big emotion there on the list by not including it.

FFL

[exscilon]

I walked into Scientology as a shy teenager with a low self image. Believe me, I had no intention of telling my friends that I was looking for help - I was very secretive about it and had no idea what I was getting involved with.

It wasn't long before I was out selling books. I remember walking around with this red Dianetics shirt on at the flea market that read "Free the Winner in You" and feeling like the biggest DB (no, not degraded being). I justified this in my head that at least I was getting over my shyness.

I felt so uncool one Friday night walking around the night clubs handing out purification rundown advertisements.

I was slapped in the face once by a woman while I was out body routing. She was just walking by and I asked her to take a personality test. Without slowing down or saying a word - she just let me have it.

I'm sure it got around my town what I was into after I was trying to pull my friends into the Dianetics cult.

I felt uneasy about all this. I mean I hadn't even gotten better myself with Dianetics and here I am trying to bring other people in.

One side of me thought these Dianetics people were really good caring people and I was doing the right thing by disseminating. I couldn't say "No" because I was weak and desperate and at least this might help with my shyness. The other side of me had a suspicion that something was wrong with all of this and I've just been owned.

Over the years, I mostly kept it a secret that I was involved with Scientology - especially from people I knew. I was always ashamed to be a Scientologist to the outside world. None of that would have mattered though if Scientology was GENUINE. I'd have the last laugh I guess. It was thoroughly shocking when I realized I'd been scammed.

My ego is crushed. My life is in ruins. I burnt myself out with heavy marijuana use. (I was denied the purif btw - something I desperately wanted to do at the time). I haven't been able to forgive myself for all of this. My life is hell. Scientology killed my identity. I would have been better off if they just shot me when I first walked through their door.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I walked into Scientology as a shy teenager with a low self image. Believe me, I had no intention of telling my friends that I was looking for help - I was very secretive about it and had no idea what I was getting involved with.

It wasn't long before I was out selling books. I remember walking around with this red Dianetics shirt on at the flea market that read "Free the Winner in You" and feeling like the biggest DB (no, not degraded being). I justified this in my head that at least I was getting over my shyness.

I felt so uncool one Friday night walking around the night clubs handing out purification rundown advertisements.

I was slapped in the face once by a woman while I was out body routing.

I'm sure it got around my town what I was into after I was trying to pull my friends into the Dianetics cult.

I felt uneasy about all this. I mean I hadn't even gotten better myself with Dianetics and here I am trying to bring other people in.

One side of me thought these Dianetics people were really good caring people and I was doing the right thing by disseminating. I couldn't say "No" because I was weak and desperate and at least this might help with my shyness. The other side of my had a suspicion that something was wrong with all of this and I've just been owned.

Over the years, I kept it a secret that I was involved with Scientology - especially from people I knew. I was always ashamed to be a Scientologist to the outside world. None of that would have mattered though if Scientology was GENUINE. I'd have the last laugh I guess. It was thoroughly shocking when I realized I'd been scammed.

My ego is crushed. My life is in ruins. I burnt myself out with heavy marijuana use. (I was denied the purif btw - something I desperately wanted to do at the time). I haven't been able to forgive myself for all of this. My life is hell. Scientology killed my identity. I would have been better off if they just shot me when I first walked through their door.

Do not continue to allow the cult to have power over you. Look at it as a mistake, we all make mistakes, learn from it, and move on.

[exscilon]

Do not continue to allow the cult to have power over you. Look at it as a mistake, we all make mistakes, learn from it, and move on.

The only thing that really hangs me up is that they have all my intimate secrets recorded in graphic detail.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The only thing that really hangs me up is that they have all my intimate secrets recorded in graphic detail.

Yeah, but you have your freedom ... they don't . You have control over your destiny, they are slaves of Hubbard's dysfunctional cult.

[uniquemand]

I had the joy of being confronted by a group of my friends from High School who I had sent Disconnection letters to. That was a new low for me.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

I had the joy of being confronted by a group of my friends from High School who I had sent Disconnection letters to. That was a new low for me.

Dude, this is fer yew! :wink2: Yer fren, EP :whistling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMl-fXxeuzk

[CornPie]

...By the way, where is embarrassed on the Tone Scale?...
. That's a good question, where is 'embarrassed' on the tone scale?
. Might 'embarrassed' be like 'fear'? (fear of revealing you are a scientologist)
. Isn't 'fear' like 'hiding'?
. I've heard 'hiding' is at the bottom of the tone scale. Is that so?
. 'Hiding' like scientologists do when protesters up at the orgs? (or is that out of context?)

[Panda Termint]

Depends on the nature of the embarrassment;
If it's a serious subject = Shame, Blame, Regret.

[KnightVision]

Or if you're lconh or prone to his ways... you make up some new 'tech' based on a newer more clever lies and on with the show!


http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/latimes/lat-1a.htm

Catapulted from obscurity, Hubbard decided in the summer of 1950 to prove in a big way that his new "science" was for real.

He appeared before a crowd of thousands at the Shrine Auditorium to unveil the "world's first clear," a person he said had achieved a perfect memory. Journalists from numerous newspapers and magazines were there to document the event.

He placed on display one Sonya Bianca, a young Boston physics major. But when Hubbard allowed the audience to question her, she performed dismally.

Someone, for example, told Hubbard to turn his back while the girl was asked to describe the color of his tie. There was silence. The world's first clear drew a blank.

"It was a tremendous embarrassment for Hubbard and his friends at the time," recalled Arthur Jean Cox, a science fiction buff who attended the presentation.



Depends on the nature of the embarrassment;
If it's a serious subject = Shame, Blame, Regret.

[Operating DB]

I was also always very embarrassed being in Scientology except the first few weeks. After that I never told anyone about it and I regretted that I had already told it to some people.
But I am very proud of one thing. I never recruited or got anyone into Scientology. I always thought that it sounded to good to be true, so I just wanted to become Clear. If I can do everything written in the Dianetics book, then I will get everybody into Scientology. As you can imagine, it just didn't happen. :whistling:


Same here. Somehow I never got anyone in in my nine years. Maybe because deep down I knew it wasn't worthwhile. I always hated the idea of disseminating. However, after I left I prevented a co-worker from joining staff at Flag by scaring the shit out of her and gave her my copy of "Messiah or Madman". I was very proud to prevent another casualty. She never gave me my book back! Hopefully she used the book to prevent someone else from becoming a victim.

[Operating DB]

One OT8 I knew couldn't arrange a piss-up in a brewery.

.

Can you define this phrase?

[FlunkedForLaughing]

My ego is crushed. My life is in ruins. I burnt myself out with heavy marijuana use. (I was denied the purif btw - something I desperately wanted to do at the time). I haven't been able to forgive myself for all of this. My life is hell. Scientology killed my identity. I would have been better off if they just shot me when I first walked through their door.

Scientology is a dangerous mind-control cult. They use lies and deception to manipulate their members. When the members break away from it, they are left with psychological baggage that they must get rid of. It can take quite a while (months or years) to get over the mental programming done without their knowledge.

One thing that I found really helps is to learn what the hell happened - what the hell they did. There are some great books I have bought recently. One is "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. He got sucked into the Moonies, which is eerily similar to the Sea Org in a lot of ways. This book really describes what makes a cult a cult, and what mind-control methods all cults use to control their members. You said "Scientology killed my identity". Killing someone's identity is what cults do, so you then take on the identity of a perfect cult member and lose your old identity in the process.

The other book I just started is "Recovery From Cults" by Michael Langone. This one mainly deals with how to remove the bad feelings you describe above. This book has many dozens of contributors and is based on 30 years of counseling ex-cult members back into a normal productive life.

FFL

[uniquemand]

Exscilon, you'll be fine. Take a breath. Love life. Right now it might look like hell. Face it. Keep on trucking. I understand how it can be, how dark it can be. When I went through this, I thought there was nobody who understood. I was wrong. You have to start again. Close this book. Write a new one. The experiences you have gained will make you wiser. What you have lost, you have lost. Some things you think you have lost are likely going to come back.

Life is rich and longer than I was prepared for (but not billions of years). If I can bounce, man, you can, too. I know that can sound trite. Write your story. People need to know how you got in, what you experienced, and how you got out. It will do a world of good. You may find it cathartic.

Underneath the identity that was crushed, as you put it, there is yet another identity that is still there. We are like Klein bottles, or fractals. We keep reiterating ourselves. You are still there. You can recover.

[degraded being]

Can you define this phrase?



A piss-up is getting together for drinking, usual connotation is lots of drinking of alcohol.

[Doom]

A piss-up is getting together for drinking, usual connotation is lots of drinking of alcohol.
and that phrase is interchangable with; Couldnt organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of money!:omg:

[Dark Phoenix]

Exscilon, you'll be fine. Take a breath. Love life. Right now it might look like hell. Face it. Keep on trucking. I understand how it can be, how dark it can be. When I went through this, I thought there was nobody who understood. I was wrong. You have to start again. Close this book. Write a new one. The experiences you have gained will make you wiser. What you have lost, you have lost. Some things you think you have lost are likely going to come back.

Life is rich and longer than I was prepared for (but not billions of years). If I can bounce, man, you can, too. I know that can sound trite. Write your story. People need to know how you got in, what you experienced, and how you got out. It will do a world of good. You may find it cathartic.

Underneath the identity that was crushed, as you put it, there is yet another identity that is still there. We are like Klein bottles, or fractals. We keep reiterating ourselves. You are still there. You can recover.

Great post UM.:thumbsup:

[degraded being]

and that phrase is interchangable with; Couldnt organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of money!:omg:


Yes. Do we know what "root" means though. LOL

The Ozzie species: Eats, roots, shoots, and leaves.

[exscilon]

Thanks for the replies. I may one day post my complete story. Tomorrow I'm working on getting into therapy. I left the cult many years ago thanks to the internet but have been a mess since.

[uniquemand]

Good thinking, Exscilon. A good therapist can really help. So can putting a plan together to achieve something you really want in life. The best thing to do is surround yourself with people who will support you and accept who you are. There are always people who will belittle you, there are even some people here who will say things to make you feel stupid for having been a Scientologist. We all got into it with the best of intentions. You couldn't get more idealistic than I was as a teenager. Don't let people tear you down for being trapped by a predatory cult. Don't let yourself tear you down, either.

[SweetnessandLight]

Hi Exscilon! I was good to hear from you again. Hope that things are looking brighter for you soon. Glad you are taking action to improve your situation. Keep reading and posting here, there are good people with lots of experience who are caring and want to help you recover and restore your life.

We all have things we need to confront and handle in life. You can do it! :)

[FrankBooth]

Yes. Do we know what "root" means though. LOL

The Ozzie species: Eats, roots, shoots, and leaves.

But of course...

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=264779&postcount=23