auditing just gives people confidence

[RolandRB]

It strikes me that these senior C/Ses who have done their jobs for many years know that auditing itself does not work - it just gives people more confidence and therefore helps them. If people were able and confident then they would not need any auditing. Take David Miscavige, for example. He does not need auditing to do what he does. Auditing is there to help the weak and there, as a threat, to restrain the strong.

[uniquemand]

You tell 'em, Troland!

[The Clam]

If auditing doesn't work how dose it give one confidence? Would confidence be a product of auditing.

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

... know that auditing itself does not work - it just gives people more confidence and therefore helps them.
Hmm. Auditing doesn't work but does help people? :duh: You seem to be arguing against yourself in the same sentence.

If somebody were to have an inadequate amount of confidence and this were to be increased that is also of benefit. I think your summary is pretty flawed.

Perhaps it is too horrible to admit that good auditing with a good C/S and an educated pc actually is beneficial. That would be a question of confronting what is actually there.

[RolandRB]

If auditing doesn't work how dose it give one confidence? Would confidence be a product of auditing.

It's called "the placebo effect".

[RolandRB]

Hmm. Auditing doesn't work but does help people? :duh: You seem to be arguing against yourself in the same sentence.

If somebody were to have an inadequate amount of confidence and this were to be increased that is also of benefit. I think your summary is pretty flawed.

Perhaps it is too horrible to admit that good auditing with a good C/S and an educated pc actually is beneficial. That would be a question of confronting what is actually there.

It is just confronting your own fears. In the case of Scientology, confronting the fears of the nonsense problems they persuaded you you have got.

War paint on Indian braves helped them confront the enemy by giving them more confidence. So what it is about this paint that makes it so effective? Which colour or pigment works best? Has anyone done a scientific experiment?

[RolandRB]

You tell 'em, Troland!

A St. Hill UK Class XII once admitted it to me down the phone that auditing gives people confidence. Implicit was that that is all it does. This will be a person who has done this C/Sing job for 20 years or more.

Auditing is just there for the weak and those totally lacking in confidence. It is there for the losers in life and those who feel they still need it or who are still benefitting from it are still losers.

[Zinjifar]

So, you've got this guy who's all anxious about things. Doesn't know exactly *what* it is that's bugging him, but runs into a guy who *does*! Eureka! I know what's scaring you! It's *Monsters In The Closet*!!! The guy is so confident and running circles around our anxious guy that pretty soon he 'cogs' that, yes, *That's It!* It's *Monsters In the Closet*!!!

As the EP of the process, the 'Therapist' gives Anxious Guy a magic rattle and tells him to shake it at the closed closet door, which he does. And, then with sweeping gesture the 'therapist' flings open the closet door and points in to...

Voila! No More Monsters!

Anxious Guy is no more.

Zinj

[RolandRB]

So, you've got this guy who's all anxious about things. Doesn't know exactly *what* it is that's bugging him, but runs into a guy who *does*! Eureka! I know what's scaring you! It's *Monsters In The Closet*!!! The guy is so confident and running circles around our anxious guy that pretty soon he 'cogs' that, yes, *That's It!* It's *Monsters In the Closet*!!!

As the EP of the process, the 'Therapist' gives Anxious Guy a magic rattle and tells him to shake it at the closed closet door, which he does. And, then with sweeping gesture the 'therapist' flings open the closet door and points in to...

Voila! No More Monsters!

Anxious Guy is no more.

Zinj

I want one of those rattles !!! :yes:

[Div6]

A St. Hill UK Class XII once admitted it to me down the phone that auditing gives people confidence. Implicit was that that is all it does. This will be a person who has done this C/Sing job for 20 years or more.

Auditing is just there for the weak and those totally lacking in confidence. It is there for the losers in life and those who feel they still need it or who are still benefitting from it are still losers.

Pix or GTFO!

There are no Class XII's outside of the (in the fullest sense of the words) "religious retreat" known as Flag. So was he trolling you, or .....?

[RolandRB]

Pix or GTFO!

There are no Class XII's outside of the (in the fullest sense of the words) "religious retreat" known as Flag. So was he trolling you, or .....?

Well, whatever was the highest Class C/S they are supposed to have. To me, the number does not matter. It's how much money they screw people for for FESs that take for days and crap C/Ses thast have to be repaired afterwards that counts.

Here are the pix you wanted. I guess you meant what Zinjifar was referring to.

http://www.blissfulexpressions.com/SpiritRattles.htm

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

If auditing doesn't work how dose it give one confidence? Would confidence be a product of auditing.

It's not designed to give you confidence in yourself, it's designed to give you confidence in Hubbard's CONfidence game

[Dark Phoenix]

A St. Hill UK Class XII once admitted it to me down the phone that auditing gives people confidence. Implicit was that that is all it does. This will be a person who has done this C/Sing job for 20 years or more.

Auditing is just there for the weak and those totally lacking in confidence. It is there for the losers in life and those who feel they still need it or who are still benefitting from it are still losers.

I guess I spent most of my life being a weak loser as it took me years to build confidence, and it wasn't through auditing.

I would think as far as giving people confidence in Scn, would it not be the TRs that do that?

[RolandRB]

I guess I spent most of my life being a weak loser as it took me years to build confidence, and it wasn't through auditing.

I would think as far as giving people confidence in Scn, would it not be the TRs that do that?

Lemme see..... TRs..... getting people to stare at each other without blinking? No, sounds like hypnotism practise to me.

Getting people to spot spots on walls....... getting people to hold walls and stop them going away? "Did you stop that wall from going away?", "Yes", "thankyou". I think testing out whether this person can be made to do what you want, is the reason for these TRs. If it works then you have got a potential Sea Org slave in the room.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I guess I spent most of my life being a weak loser as it took me years to build confidence, and it wasn't through auditing.

I would think as far as giving people confidence in Scn, would it not be the TRs that do that?

I'd say it's more of the illusion or "delusion" of Scientology itself, which gives confidence. In Sceintology you are brainwashed to believe that Scientology and only Scientology has the answers and everyone else is at a disadvantage. The TRs just help in the brainwashing process.

[Dark Phoenix]

Lemme see..... TRs..... getting people to stare at each other without blinking? No, sounds like hypnotism practise to me.

Getting people to spot spots on walls....... getting people to hold walls and stop them going away? "Did you stop that wall from going away?", "Yes", "thankyou". I think testing out whether this person can be made to do what you want, is the reason for these TRs. If it works then you have got a potential Sea Org slave in the room.

I don't disagree that TRs are part of the indoctrination process, but I was thinking more along the lines of the lower TRs that focus on comfortably 'being' in the presence of another person and to confront without flinching. A lot of under-confident people find this hard to do.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I don't disagree that TRs are part of the indoctrination process, but I was thinking more along the lines of the lower TRs that focus on comfortably 'being' in the presence of another person and to confront without flinching. A lot of under-confident people find this hard to do.

And yet entire groups of Hubbard's elite Sea Orgers scatter like cockroaches at the mere sight of an 18 year old approaching them in an anonymous mask.

[Dark Phoenix]

And yet entire groups of Hubbard's elite Sea Orgers scatter like cockroaches at the mere sight of an 18 year old approaching them in an anonymous mask.

It goes much deeper than a few lower level TRs with the SO. These are the cloistered dedicated clergy, and to keep them as such, is it not drilled into them to avoid at all costs the entheta of the evil SPs, i.e the 18 year old in a V mask?

I guess I'm looking at the TRs in isolation, and minus the upper level indoc or any paranoia of perceived enemies.

[Tiger Lily]

I don't disagree that TRs are part of the indoctrination process, but I was thinking more along the lines of the lower TRs that focus on comfortably 'being' in the presence of another person and to confront without flinching. A lot of under-confident people find this hard to do.

Dark Phoenix, I agree here. Those lower level TR's helped me a bunch in being able to deal with situations, look someone in the eye and handle something without reacting (I was a teacher, so being "bullbaited" by students is part of life (though not terrible once they respect you)).

I think it's even good for confident people. It's one of those lower-level processes that is effective and snags people early. The downside is that while it's getting them hooked, the indoctrination process is already starting.

-TL