PDA

View Full Version : Request assistance



Rich Gardner
22nd July 2009, 02:12 AM
Greetings! I work at one of the Independent Media Centers (IMC), specifically the Philadelphia one (PhillyIMC). Lately, we've had postings from Antonella Antonecchia, a Scientologist and her first few postings were easy to dispute and call attention to. Here is her latest (http://www.phillyimc.org/en/music-plays-human-rights). As for me, here's my MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/pn3prawn) entry.
Problem: 1. Posting pieces on the IMC sites is done without filters. Folks simply post their pieces and if it's really awful, we'll take it down, but we have to find something really obviously objectionable in order to justify doing so. 2. I'm aware that Scientologists claimed to have done great things in South Africa, but the South African government had no record of their even being present in their country, let alone doing the great stuff they claimed. Antonella recently claimed that they did great stuff in Rwanda, but I couldn't find any sources that could authoritatively confirm or deny their actions there.
If we could have y'all keep an eye on their IMC postings (She posts to many IMCs, not just Philly) and provide informed, detailed rebuttals, that would be enormously appreciated!

Feral
22nd July 2009, 11:05 AM
I can't say what they have been doing in Rwanda, I can say that if they say they were 'working' there they were at least present in that country.

Here's how it works; a high profile and fairly well off scientology public goes to a foreign, under privileged country and, say, funds and gets "The Way to Happiness" booklets into a small village.

Next comes a "Gold" (tm) film crew setting up fake shots of LRH's tech saving kids from joining the local militia and becoming literate and subsequently opening schools which produce Nobel prize laureates who in their turn cure AIDs and stop the epidemic. Come the next international event... Three cheers for LRH,....now please donate to the IAS to further this work.

The catch is that the individual scientologist's work was not and never will be funded by the IAS and amounted, in actuality, to be as valuable as a knobble of goat shit to the impoverished people of that country, who the rank and file of the Church of Scientology regard as Degraded Beings, privately, for 'pulling in' such poverty.

Maybe the high profile Scientologist also did something of actual value for these folks, but it wouldn't have been a church program, no way, it would have been a normal human effort to try to help, which the CofS would shamelessly misown as theirs.

Hope this helps

Outethicsofficer
23rd July 2009, 08:51 AM
Maybe the high profile Scientologist also did something of actual value for these folks, but it wouldn't have been a church program, no way, it would have been a normal human effort to try to help, which the CofS would shamelessly misown as theirs.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

This is exactly what I think occurs. These people would have done these things regardless of the "tech".
James

Rich Gardner
27th July 2009, 05:31 PM
Mildly helpful, but your answers give me nothing that I can say back at the posts that will then serve to discredit Scientologists. I did see someone, I presume someone from the group here (Which is why I waited until now to check back in), who posted a general statement about Scientologists being into mind control. These posts are very helpful and I would like to strongly encourage them.
I was very concerned when I read about Tom Cruise's wife, Katie Holmes, going to a party and having her "escorts" follow her even into the bathroom:ohmy: . That strikes me as cult-style mind control stuff. Y'all got a quickie explanation/description of that incident that I can post in response to Antonella's latest?

The Anabaptist Jacques
27th July 2009, 05:37 PM
Mildly helpful, but your answers give me nothing that I can say back at the posts that will then serve to discredit Scientologists. I did see someone, I presume someone from the group here (Which is why I waited until now to check back in), who posted a general statement about Scientologists being into mind control. These posts are very helpful and I would like to strongly encourage them.
I was very concerned when I read about Tom Cruise's wife, Katie Holmes, going to a party and having her "escorts" follow her even into the bathroom:ohmy: . That strikes me as cult-style mind control stuff. Y'all got a quickie explanation/description of that incident that I can post in response to Antonella's latest?

Just ask Antonella for specifics. She will give you hyperbolic answers. Then ask her for specifics agian. She will give you more hyperbolic answers. Then tell her you will drop her if she doesn't give specifics. then she will tell you they did what is called a "locational assist" or passed out "Way to Happiness" booklets. that is the most they would ever bother doing. And they woould only do it for a photo-opportunity. (and she might provide the photo).

The Anabaptist Jacques

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
27th July 2009, 05:41 PM
Mildly helpful, but your answers give me nothing that I can say back at the posts that will then serve to discredit Scientologists. I did see someone, I presume someone from the group here (Which is why I waited until now to check back in), who posted a general statement about Scientologists being into mind control. These posts are very helpful and I would like to strongly encourage them.
I was very concerned when I read about Tom Cruise's wife, Katie Holmes, going to a party and having her "escorts" follow her even into the bathroom:ohmy: . That strikes me as cult-style mind control stuff. Y'all got a quickie explanation/description of that incident that I can post in response to Antonella's latest?

"Mildly helpful, but your answers give me nothing"?

There are reams and reams of information about this subject all over the internet including multiple thread on this board alone. If you are too lazy to look for yourself and expect to be spoon fed the information you are looking for. I'm sorry I can't help you, I'm not your coffee bitch, but keep checking back maybe someone else with be a happy to one for you.

Voltaire's Child
27th July 2009, 07:47 PM
Mildly helpful, but your answers give me nothing that I can say back at the posts that will then serve to discredit Scientologists. I did see someone, I presume someone from the group here (Which is why I waited until now to check back in), who posted a general statement about Scientologists being into mind control. These posts are very helpful and I would like to strongly encourage them.
I was very concerned when I read about Tom Cruise's wife, Katie Holmes, going to a party and having her "escorts" follow her even into the bathroom:ohmy: . That strikes me as cult-style mind control stuff. Y'all got a quickie explanation/description of that incident that I can post in response to Antonella's latest?


Seems to me that one would want to discredit cult propaganda, cultism, certain stances. Not "discredit Scientologists". Scientologists are individuals. Wanting to discredit individuals smacks to me of bigotry. Wanting to rebut something a Scientologist says seems to me to be a more appropriate way of dealing with it. Unless, of course, you want to demonize people just because they happen to be Scientologists? While it is true that the church sends operatives and PR people around to various places on the 'net, it's also a fact that there is the true believer syndrome and that there are lots of people who are just posting what they think- whether that be right or wrong or dumb or smart or whatever. So why would you want to discredit the person instead of rebutting what the person says?

I think it's great that you want to post about the doings of the cult and what goes wrong there. However, having said that--I surely hope there isn't a vendetta going on at the same time against someone who happens to not believe as you do.

Rich Gardner
28th July 2009, 12:06 AM
To The Anabaptist Jacques: Antonella posts to many IMCs, I seriously doubt she'd even notice my posting to just PhillyIMC. Nice idea, but I'd be posting without responses.
---------
To ChuckNorrisCutMyLawm: No, that wasn't my intention at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
--------
To Fluffy: Well yes, the problem with responding to Scientologists as cult members is tht first I have to convincingly show they ARE a cult. The IMCs get a lot of casual, first-time readers, so the fact that I'm inclined to see Scientology as a cult isn't good enough. I need to prove that point as I would to a jury, with facts and evidence, THEN I can attack them as a cult.

I'll look around the board to see if there's enough evidence to sustain that charge and IF it seems true, I'll charge them with that.

Voltaire's Child
28th July 2009, 12:22 AM
To Fluffy: Well yes, the problem with responding to Scientologists as cult members is tht first I have to convincingly show they ARE a cult. The IMCs get a lot of casual, first-time readers, so the fact that I'm inclined to see Scientology as a cult isn't good enough. I need to prove that point as I would to a jury, with facts and evidence, THEN I can attack them as a cult.

I'll look around the board to see if there's enough evidence to sustain that charge and IF it seems true, I'll charge them with that.

A couple things:


Not all Scientologists are members of the Church of Scn.

You should not be trying to attack individuals, but, rather, the issues, the cult itself, etc. You know what led me to leave CofS? I found a critical forum. And I was rather party line in my views. And I talked to people and I listened to them. And they talked to me rather than at me. (Well a few did the latter, but they are definitely not the people to whom I listened and if all of them were like that, I'd still be in CofS)

You can do more against the church by not demonizing individual members than you can by demonizing them.

Spirited
28th July 2009, 01:14 AM
I see what you are after Rich.
you want us to have a look at the postings on Imc and if any of us have conflicting data or data that can verify that the report is false or pertaining to "cult" think, then to post something up there to discredit the original post or fire you the data so you can post it.

I understand it could be quite overwhelming going through this board as there is a huge amount of info on ESMB to sift through to find appropriate data and some help on getting to the correct thread quickly without having to read the whole board would definitely be helpful to you. :)

I'm sure there will be some guys on here that may have knowledge of what you are requesting.
Perhaps some links to some other articles from the poster you mention could be helpful.

ChronicEnturbulator
28th July 2009, 01:33 AM
Rich, I think you picked the wrong venue for your question. Try Why We Protest (http://forums.whyweprotest.net/). You might get a better response there, because ExScn is a recovery board, not a activism board.

Although, here's some advice before posting at WWP: the fastest way for non-anons to piss off anons (channers, WWP posters) is to ask for them to be your personal army (NYPA: Not Your Personal Army). It's best to lay out all pertinent information and let them decide to do what best. (ask "what can be done" rather than "do for me")

Spirited
28th July 2009, 01:57 AM
Rich, I think you picked the wrong venue for your question. Try Why We Protest (http://forums.whyweprotest.net/). You might get a better response there, because ExScn is a recovery board, not a activism board.

Although, here's some advice before posting at WWP: the fastest way for non-anons to piss off anons (channers, WWP posters) is to ask for them to be your personal army (NYPA: Not Your Personal Army). It's best to lay out all pertinent information and let them decide to do what best. (ask "what can be done" rather than "do for me")

I agree, WWP is a great place to start. granted,:)
However this board being a "recovery" board is false data. There are people that "recover" from telling their stories and discussing issues on this board, etc, sure, however here is the link to Emmas viewpoint and purpose for this board.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=264

scientology is the subject that brings us all together here but not all are here only to recover.
If you go through the board you will find that there are in fact also some activists on this board and there are also some folk that like to help on the "media" front if they can.

Voltaire's Child
28th July 2009, 02:17 AM
I've personally been told by several Anons that they're in favor of people's rights to pursue their study of Scn outside CofS. Not that they were in favor of Scn itself...but that it was cool if people wanted to be part of/practice in the FZ.

I've known FZers who went on pickets and met with Anons, all getting along nicely.

So I find the commentary of a couple alleged anons here kind of interesting. I mention this because WWP is their forum.

Mystic
28th July 2009, 03:07 AM
No kidding this isn't just a "recovery board". I "recovered" 18 years ago. And yes, WWP would be a very good board for this request for help.

SweetnessandLight
28th July 2009, 05:13 AM
Hi Rich, Thanks for contacting us. I don't have any information about current church of Scientology activities in Africa, and I'm not sure if anybody here has any specific helpful information to share with you on that, other than generalities on how the church might carry out business as usual, largely speculation based on past experience. You seem to be looking for more specific facts and numbers to be able to refute her reporting.

I do have a suggestion, if you wish to post a counterbalance to her claims, why not just post links to sites that are critical of COS, and let readers look, gather information, and decide for themselves?

Here are some: exscn.net, exscientologykids.com
scientology-cult.com, leavingscientology.wordpress.com,
counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com. whyweprotest.net,
whyaretheydead.net, youfoundthecard.com.

There are others.

Just post the links and let people look for themselves. It's educational.

Good luck to you, Sweet

TheSneakster
28th July 2009, 05:27 PM
..

Voltaire's Child
28th July 2009, 05:36 PM
No kidding this isn't just a "recovery board". I "recovered" 18 years ago. And yes, WWP would be a very good board for this request for help.


This, like many other critical forums (ok, several) is and can be many things to many people. To me, that's the charm of critical forums.

Rich Gardner
29th July 2009, 12:37 AM
You're both precisely, 100% correct! I have no knowledge of what Antonella is like as a person and couldn't possibly care less. It's her position as a Scientologist that concerns me. My point in writing replies is not to attack her or even so much to attack Scientology, it's to inform the readers of the IMCs that Scientologists are a group that requires some wariness and some skepticism.
And thanks ChronicEnturbulator, I'll do that.