PDA

View Full Version : Oppressed Thetans:The New "OT"



Rae
22nd July 2009, 07:55 AM
I, as I'm sure all of us "OTs" on the board can, so totally relate to this:http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/

"In HCOB 22 December 1960, O/W, A Limited Theory, LRH points out that we use O/W as it “explains phenomena found at a low humanoid level.” It is not, he states, a senior governing law of the universe. As one moves up the line, it drops out.

Makes sense. As one moves up to OT, one should become more and more rational, more and more ethical. Trips to the Ethics Officer should be less and less. And Security Checks should be fewer and fewer.

In theory. But that’s not how it works, is it? In fact, it seems that the higher you are on the Bridge, the less you are trusted. Security Checks become more and more frequent. Anyone on OT VII, in fact, has to go to Flag twice a year for their “6 Month Check,” which includes at least one intensive of Security Checking, often two or more, at $7,500 an intensive. Add in the bill for your 6-month C/Sing, your Accomodations and food, and you’re looking at spending $20,000 or more twice a year.

Then, before you complete OT VII, you have to pass a final Sec Check. Then, before you can leave Flag, you have to do a “leaving Flag Sec Check.” Then, before you start OT VIII on the Ship, you have to do another 73-question Sec Check.

Well, there must be a reason for all this, you say. There must be an LRH reference that talks about Sec Checking OTs. And as a matter of fact, there is. C/S Series 73RB, The No-Interference Area Clarified and Reenforced, states that those on VII may only receive Sec Checks if they are stalled or moving slowly. And in HCOB 8 March 82R, Confessionals and the Non-Interference Zone, LRH insists that a pre-OT who is running well and making case gain should not be interrupted with other actions.

Great, you might say, all we have to do is bring these issues to the attention of Flag and RTC and that’ll handle it. Sure. Ask Virginia McClaughry and Greg and Debra Barnes how that worked out for them. They all got shot from guns, declared Suppressive and railroaded out of Scientology for just mentioning these issues.

So probably not a great idea to bring it up.

But why, you might ask, do they insist that OTs get Sec Check after Sec Check?

Why don’t they trust the top OTs on the planet? Why do OT VIIs and VIIIs have to jump through hoops to keep their Eligibility current?

One word: control.

Whether one wants to confront it or not, organized Scientology wants to keep their OTs on a very, very short leash.

Think of the anxiety caused by these frequent Sec Checks. One doesn’t want to do or even think anything that could possibly come up on their Sec Checks and put their Eligibility in jeapordy. It’s an odd fact that OTs at Flag don’t want to read other people’s Liability formulas as they don’t want to restimulate something of their own! OTs are petrified that something will come up that will make them lose their eligibility.

And this means that organized Scientology can control every aspect of their lives.

An OT I know, who lives in Clearwater and is auditing on VII, has a 13-year-old daughter. One day when his daughter was at Flag, she was taken into a room with three Sea Org recruiters and kept there for several hours, bombarded with hard-sell techniques and “handled” until she signed a Sea Org contract. Her father was informed after the fact. He hit the roof. He wanted her to finish school and live life a bit before making such a major decision. “Back off,” he was told, or he would be sent to the Ethics Officer for “counterintention to the Sea Org.” If he persisted, he would risk losing his Eligibility and he could be taken off the level. His leash had been yanked, hard. He backed off.

When you’re at Flag, you’re hounded constantly for money, for the IAS, for Ideal Orgs, for the Superpower Building. And if you are “uncooperative” with the Reges, you risk a trip to the Ethics Officer. Yank.

OT VIIs were recently called in and told that if they read the articles in the St. Petersburg Times, they would be taken off the level. Yank.

There was a notice at one point that anyone found reading The Secret would be taken off the level. Yank.

It came up in one woman’s Sec Check that she wasn’t having sex with her husband, and it was “enturbulating” him. She was told to knock it off. Yank.

Another woman confessed to putting on a provocative costume in the privacy of her bedroom to excite her husband. Knock it off. Yank.

Another couple was told that their children could no longer play with their best friends – because their parents were out-ethics. Yank.

And what choice does an OT have? Either toe the line, or get declared. And if you are declared, they say, your life will be ruined, you will lose your friends, your family, your “eternity.”

Let me ask you this: does this sound like the Road to Total Freedom?

Or the Road to Total Slavery?

And the “eternity” they speak of – is that an eternity of being told what you can and cannot do, what you can and cannot read, what you can and cannot look at, what you can and cannot say, what you can and cannot think, who you and your family can and can’t associate with?

In today’s Brave New Scientology, the only road is towards a dead end of total oppression and control."

Veda
22nd July 2009, 08:40 AM
-snip-

In today’s Brave New Scientology, the only road is towards a dead end of total oppression and control."

I hate to tell you this, but today's Brave New Scientology is not that different from the Scientology of the 1960s. And since the 1960s, the senior tech and policy of Scientology has been confidential. And I'm not just talking about the advertised "confidential" as found on the "Grade Chart" to "OT," but the not advertised confidential of which the average member has no awareness.

Scientology is a secretive subject, and a secretive subject run as (Hubbard's words) a "tight conspiracy."

The average Scientologist is simply "out of the loop."

Royal Prince Xenu
22nd July 2009, 10:21 AM
...

In theory. But that’s not how it works, is it? In fact, it seems that the higher you are on the Bridge, the less you are trusted. Security Checks become more and more frequent. Anyone on OT VII, in fact, has to go to Flag twice a year for their “6 Month Check,” which includes at least one intensive of Security Checking, often two or more, at $7,500 an intensive. Add in the bill for your 6-month C/Sing, your Accomodations and food, and you’re looking at spending $20,000 or more twice a year.

Then, before you complete OT VII, you have to pass a final Sec Check. Then, before you can leave Flag, you have to do a “leaving Flag Sec Check.” Then, before you start OT VIII on the Ship, you have to do another 73-question Sec Check.

Well, there must be a reason for all this, you say. There must be an LRH reference that talks about Sec Checking OTs. And as a matter of fact, there is. C/S Series 73RB, The No-Interference Area Clarified and Reenforced, states that those on VII may only receive Sec Checks if they are stalled or moving slowly. And in HCOB 8 March 82R, Confessionals and the Non-Interference Zone, LRH insists that a pre-OT who is running well and making case gain should not be interrupted with other actions.

Great, you might say, all we have to do is bring these issues to the attention of Flag and RTC and that’ll handle it. Sure. Ask Virginia McClaughry and Greg and Debra Barnes how that worked out for them. They all got shot from guns, declared Suppressive and railroaded out of Scientology for just mentioning these issues.

...

I have seen a video interview on this. The "bulletin" is "missing". It's replacement makes no reference to the existence of the original and the numbering "hole" is not explained, therefore it is an "unbulletin", and people citing it may be called unpersons and duly erased from the Church's records (don't we wish!).

Reasonable
22nd July 2009, 11:33 AM
I love this post and this blog!

Feral
22nd July 2009, 12:35 PM
Great post Rae,

That's exactly what it's like gettng your 'freedom' from the 'Mecca'

A harrowing 15years of my life.

KnightVision
22nd July 2009, 12:57 PM
There is one very logical reason for heavily sec checking anybody allowed into the upper confidential super secret levels of sci.

I understand that anybody who has done so with good intentions of becoming one of the finest of Scientologists while obtaining the wonderful and long awaited abilities of the elite class of immortals offered by Hubbard's Technology... may not easily want to look at this post, but it may be of use to some.

When somebody is put through a series of demanding tests and requirements just to be able access certain information... they will, assume without further critical thoughts, that what they are about to gain access to is incredibly valuable.

The other very obvious reason to multiple sec checks is that they will have divulged many intimate, embarrassing or legally implicit facts about their life that are recorded and can be used against them in case they depart or become critical of the experience.

Royal Prince Xenu
22nd July 2009, 02:27 PM
There is one very logical reason for heavily sec checking anybody allowed into the upper confidential super secret levels of sci.

I understand that anybody who has done so with good intentions of becoming one of the finest of Scientologists while obtaining the wonderful and long awaited abilities of the elite class of immortals offered by Hubbard's Technology... may not easily want to look at this post, but it may be of use to some.

When somebody is put through a series of demanding tests and requirements just to be able access certain information... they will, assume without further critical thoughts, that what they are about to gain access to is incredibly valuable.

The other very obvious reason to multiple sec checks is that they will have divulged many intimate, embarrassing or legally implicit facts about their life that are recorded and can be used against them in case they depart or become critical of the experience.

VII is solo. After all the sec checks to get started, the relevant "training" and study, the pc now has all the data. All that is required of the pc is to run the self-audit processes to completion which may take several years. As the "bulletin" cited but not yet properly identified specifically states: Sec checks are NOT to be conducted unless there is a C/S concern or a bog-down.

DM is milking Ot-VIIs for more money, and then even more money because the Sec-checks are fucking them up and damaging their cases, so then they have to pay for repair processes. I suspect my mechanic of the same activity: every time I take my car in for a repair, I'm sure he breaks something else so I have to go back again. Under the Scientology creed that is the act of a Suppressive Person.

DM, we know you for what you are! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP!

Gadfly
22nd July 2009, 02:56 PM
There is one very logical reason for heavily sec checking anybody allowed into the upper confidential super secret levels of sci.

I understand that anybody who has done so with good intentions of becoming one of the finest of Scientologists while obtaining the wonderful and long awaited abilities of the elite class of immortals offered by Hubbard's Technology... may not easily want to look at this post, but it may be of use to some.

When somebody is put through a series of demanding tests and requirements just to be able access certain information... they will, assume without further critical thoughts, that what they are about to gain access to is incredibly valuable.

The other very obvious reason to multiple sec checks is that they will have divulged many intimate, embarrassing or legally implicit facts about their life that are recorded and can be used against them in case they depart or become critical of the experience.

Also, with constant sec checking, the slightly vacillating member can be found and handled quickly. Constant sec checking acts as a way to monitor the "allegiance" of any member. It is way to verify whether or not the member is sticking to the "party line" of Hubbard and more so, with current Church management.

The moment they "catch" you wavering, you are sent for handling. Either you straighten out, play nice, and continue to march in lock-step with the rest of the lemmings, or you end up declared, unable to infect others with your out-of-agreement views. THAT may be a primary purpose of security checking. Also, remember that security checking was created and designed for the benefit of the "security" of the Church. It has little to do with the PC or pre-OT. Confessionals were designed to help a person unburden his or herself of overts and withhholds. Sec Checks help the Church closely monitor and keep "trouble" from appearing. And, of course, it is a constant source of additional income (never forget THAT).

Veda
22nd July 2009, 03:12 PM
VII is solo. After all the sec checks to get started, the relevant "training" and study, the pc now has all the data. All that is required of the pc is to run the self-audit processes to completion which may take several years. As the "bulletin" cited but not yet properly identified specifically states: Sec checks are NOT to be conducted unless there is a C/S concern or a bog-down.

DM is milking Ot-VIIs for more money, and then even more money because the Sec-checks are fucking them up and damaging their cases, so then they have to pay for repair processes. I suspect my mechanic of the same activity: every time I take my car in for a repair, I'm sure he breaks something else so I have to go back again. Under the Scientology creed that is the act of a Suppressive Person.

DM, we know you for what you are! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP! SP!

Hubbard did this sort of thing too. Who do you think Miscavige is imitating?

People who did the "OT levels" - up to 1979 - had no idea that they needed "NOTs," especially YEARS of NOTS. Hubbard had to tell them first. Then they had to agree - and the level of hype surrounding the initial release of NOTs was ridiculous - and if the person didn't agree and have "VGIs" on the idea of doing years of NOTs, then something was very wrong with the person. (Read: that was expensive, and could result in, amongst other things, re-doing levels, false-clear attest check, sec checking, "ethics handlings," etc.) SO PEOPLE AGREED. Besides the hype said that doing NOTs would remove the final barrier to FULL OT!

Hubbard got people to agree to THAT, and now their upset about 6 month sec checks because it seems to contradict something Hubbard wrote. (?)

In any event, not to worry. Sooner or later, the 6 month Sec Check rule will be "cancelled," and all these dedicated NOTs people can get back on "Church" lines.

Veda
22nd July 2009, 03:24 PM
I have seen a video interview on this. The "bulletin" is "missing". It's replacement makes no reference to the existence of the original and the numbering "hole" is not explained, therefore it is an "unbulletin", and people citing it may be called unpersons and duly erased from the Church's records (don't we wish!).

Yet another thing Hubbard did, for years, that is being blamed on patsy Miscavige, as though it didn't happen before.

Oh well.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
22nd July 2009, 03:35 PM
I hate to tell you this, but today's Brave New Scientology is not that different from the Scientology of the 1960s. And since the 1960s, the senior tech and policy of Scientology has been confidential. And I'm not just talking about the advertised "confidential" as found on the "Grade Chart" to "OT," but the not advertised confidential of which the average member has no awareness.

Scientology is a secretive subject, and a secretive subject run as (Hubbard's words) a "tight conspiracy."

The average Scientologist is simply "out of the loop."

Yep Hubbard's tech was specifically designed to oppress and control people from day one, nothing has changed. Sure some people try to make more out of it than that, but that is to be understood. I've seen people try to turn Beavis and Butthead into a workable philosophy too.

http://bigthink.com/susanneiman/what-do-beavis-and-butthead-have-in-common-with-nietzsche

Veda
22nd July 2009, 03:47 PM
Yep Hubbard's tech was specifically designed to oppress and control people from day one, nothing has changed. Sure some people try to make more out of it than that, but that is to be understood. I've seen people try to turn Beavis and Butthead into a workable philosophy too.

http://bigthink.com/susanneiman/what-do-beavis-and-butthead-have-in-common-with-nietzsche

It's that, yet it's more than that, which is why it can be an effective trap. If you deny the "positives," then you deny a key component of the disguise-coating of the Hubbard mind-trap.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=108613&postcount=106

CornPie
22nd July 2009, 04:07 PM
...Then, before you start OT VIII on the Ship, you have to do another 73-question Sec Check...
To ALL: Perhaps these questions would be better answered on the thread I link to below.

It was mentioned that OTVIII takes place on, "the ship", I assume this means it's in Clearwater, Florida. Is there a set schedule for that ship, is a schedule published anywhere, which dock does 'the ship' board and depart from, what would be the most opportune time for protesters to arrive, what would be the most effective way to protest, things to say, signs to carry, etc?

On July 17, 2009 AnonSparrow protested around Clearwater, including the Fort Harrison Hotel. On the 2nd video at the Sandcastle Hotel, he mentioned OT's stay there. Is that for OT's of all levels, or do OTVIII's lodge somewhere else. It looked like a 'very' effective protest weekend to me -- but how can protests be even more effectuve in the future?

Here is a link to a thread, which includes two videos of Sparow's protests:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12584

Gadfly
22nd July 2009, 04:17 PM
It's that, yet it's more than that, which is why it can be an effective trap. If you deny the "positives," then you deny a key component of the disguise-coating of the Hubbard mind-trap.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=108613&postcount=106

There is no dount that it all started with Hubbard. He set the bar high, and Davey Miscavige has no problem jumping even higher! But, the manner in which the organization is run has ALWAYS been insane. I was involved in the 70s, in the Sea Org for awhile, as an exec for awhile, and I saw up close and personal the total absurdity of personalities, power, endless change, and how this ALL came from the very top - from Hubbard. DM isn't changing much really; he is more than not carrying on fully with Hubbard's tradition of ruthless and total control.

But also, yes, there ARE certain very powerful "truths" within the subject, and THAT does make it so much more insidious. THAT is what enables people to get various "gains", and that is what gets the robotic members to deny all the abuses and insanity. Most people can't comfortably live with strong dichotomies. Maybe Hubbard knew that, and even used THAT to his advantage. Whether or not he did it intentionally is a moot point. That the theory and practice of Scientology is a tremendous constant contradiction, that members must adapt to and learn to live with, is easily observed.

Yes, for me, I have carefully and skillfully pulled out the good from the bad. But, that is not easy for most people. The set up of the subject and organization IS overwhelming; I expect and assume by Hubbard's design. But, even if not intentionally designed so, the system DOES manipulate, control and CHANGE members in many ways each is quite unaware of.

He created a perfect "trap" (knowingly or unknowingly).

1) On the one hand he delineated many aspects of the nature of things, even the nature of "traps".

2) And then his "system" systematically traps anyone who walks in the door with a little innocence, naivity and a clean heart.

Hubbard was no dummy, whatever else he may have been.

Rae
23rd July 2009, 06:28 AM
I hate to tell you this, but today's Brave New Scientology is not that different from the Scientology of the 1960s. And since the 1960s, the senior tech and policy of Scientology has been confidential. And I'm not just talking about the advertised "confidential" as found on the "Grade Chart" to "OT," but the not advertised confidential of which the average member has no awareness.

Scientology is a secretive subject, and a secretive subject run as (Hubbard's words) a "tight conspiracy."

The average Scientologist is simply "out of the loop."

You and I and most of the people on this board are somewhat aware of this but the person who is writing the blog that I quoted from(Rebel008) is doing so for the benefit of Scientologists who are considering leaving or who are looking for some answers. It's way too out "gradient" (for lack of a better word) to start in with Hubbard attacks. It simply doesn't work if you do that as anyone who's worked with Scientologists will tell you..me included. I think personally that the website/blog is well laid out for the person beginning to wake up. www.leavingscientology.worldpress.com

Panda Termint
23rd July 2009, 07:20 AM
You and I and most of the people on this board are somewhat aware of this but the person who is writing the blog that I quoted from(Rebel008) is doing so for the benefit of Scientologists who are considering leaving or who are looking for some answers. It's way too out "gradient" (for lack of a better word) to start in with Hubbard attacks. It simply doesn't work if you do that as anyone who's worked with Scientologists will tell you..me included. I think personally that the website/blog is well laid out for the person beginning to wake up. www.leavingscientology.worldpress.com (http://www.leavingscientology.worldpress.com)
Yes! I agree, Rae.
This website is an excellent exit gradient for those still-in but looking for answers to the many obvious outpoints in the CofS.

Veda
23rd July 2009, 08:55 AM
You and I and most of the people on this board are somewhat aware of this but the person who is writing the blog that I quoted from(Rebel008) is doing so for the benefit of Scientologists who are considering leaving or who are looking for some answers. It's way too out "gradient" (for lack of a better word) to start in with Hubbard attacks. It simply doesn't work if you do that as anyone who's worked with Scientologists will tell you..me included. I think personally that the website/blog is well laid out for the person beginning to wake up. www.leavingscientology.worldpress.com

Looked at the site. It contains some truths and a fair amount of mis-information and half truths.

I've helped a lot of people free themselves from Scientology (IRL), and I did it - albeit diplomatically and carefully - without resorting to mis-information and half-truth-telling.

People have been leaving Scientology for years without needing to be lied to.

"Lie to get them into Scientology. Lie to keep them in Scientology. Lie to get them out of Scientology."

No thanks. One can be diplomatic and tactful without lying.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
23rd July 2009, 02:28 PM
Yet another thing Hubbard did, for years, that is being blamed on patsy Miscavige, as though it didn't happen before.

Oh well.


for some reason people like to blame Miscavige for Hubbard's policies instead of blaming Hubbard himself. Miscavige's only flaw is he takes Hubbard's cult too seriously and has been programmed with all of Hubbard's evil attributes. Miscavige is the perfect Ronbot, that is why he is running Hubbard's cult right now. The problem is, and always has been Hubbard. Hubbard was the one who created this twisted totalitarian cult. The drones are not worshiping Miscavige they are worshiping the con man who created the scam.

uniquemand
23rd July 2009, 02:47 PM
Hubbard is dead. Blaming him ceased to be useful once he was dead. Assigning responsibility to the person currently causing the problems is, IMO, the proper thing to do.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a lot of documents related to the USA's origin. However, he didn't order the invasion of Iraq. Accusing him of such would be silly. Bush is still alive. Bringing him to trial is the correct thing to do. Probably better to start with Kissinger, since he's more likely to die soon.

I digress. Prosecute Davey.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
23rd July 2009, 02:52 PM
Hubbard is dead. Blaming him ceased to be useful once he was dead. Assigning responsibility to the person currently causing the problems is, IMO, the proper thing to do.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a lot of documents related to the USA's origin. However, he didn't order the invasion of Iraq. Accusing him of such would be silly. Bush is still alive. Bringing him to trial is the correct thing to do. Probably better to start with Kissinger, since he's more likely to die soon.

I digress. Prosecute Davey.

What is the point of blaming Miscavige when Hubbard is the problem. When Miscavige is taken away in handcuffs, a new Ronbot will take his place to start Hubbard's wash, spin, rinse cycle of abuse all over again. Hubbard is the problem. The longer people pretend that Hubbard was anything more that a con man with an extremely severe messiah complex, the longer Hubbard's twisted policies will continue to harm people.

uniquemand
23rd July 2009, 03:00 PM
Certainly Hubbard's policies need to be scrapped. However, I don't know how you'll get the next chump to stop following them. Meanwhile, prosecute the people committing crimes. Again, Hubbard is dead.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
23rd July 2009, 03:07 PM
Certainly Hubbard's policies need to be scrapped. However, I don't know how you'll get the next chump to stop following them. Meanwhile, prosecute the people committing crimes. Again, Hubbard is dead.

Sure Hubbard is dead but his totalitarian mind control cult tech is still harming people. Hitler is dead too, should we just forget about his evil policies too, and only focus only on those who follow them and carry them out? Of course Miscavige is a criminal, no one will argue that, and I doubt anyone will argue that the next Ronbit to take his place will also be criminal. It order to run Hubbard's cult and follow "Hubbard's Standard Tech" you have to be a criminal. Hubbard was a twist piece of shit and anyone who heads his cult will have to be the same.

uniquemand
23rd July 2009, 03:13 PM
Who said anything about forgetting Hitler or Hubbard? Not me. I just said that Davey is the one currently where the buck stops.

Now, if you could convince a court that following Hubbard's policies lead to criminal conspiracy, then perhaps you'd have some sort of RICO basis for prosecuting any usage of Hubbard's policy. That would be useful, but would probably require an act of congress, literally.

Royal Prince Xenu
23rd July 2009, 04:26 PM
for some reason people like to blame Miscavige for Hubbard's policies instead of blaming Hubbard himself. Miscavige's only flaw is he takes Hubbard's cult too seriously and has been programmed with all of Hubbard's evil attributes. Miscavige is the perfect Ronbot, that is why he is running Hubbard's cult right now. The problem is, and always has been Hubbard. Hubbard was the one who created this twisted totalitarian cult. The drones are not worshiping Miscavige they are worshiping the con man who created the scam.

It may well have been the case that DM was already running things via RTC during those last years the lrh was in "hiding". So it is entirely possible that I never experienced "Ronology". However it was after DM took the reins publicly, that what I "thought" $cn was about, started to get twisted and whacko by the standards that had already been set:

Touch assists being a single pass over the body and "your done", without continuing to an EP;
The anti-child edict within the S.O.;
The aforementioned Sec-checks on OT VIIs;
The faithful execs now imprisoned in the SP Hall... etc.

I know now, looking from the outside that under Hubbard's regime things were pretty whacko anyway, but if you imagine all of $cn being written on tin-foil, then Davey has screwed it up and spread it out again, and expects people still to be able to make some sense of it. He's added several layers of Waco whacko in addition to perpetuating the criminal activities of his Lord and Master. lrh's moral compass used to oscillate wildly, but dm's just spins. I bet myself that getting dm onto a meter would result in a significant number of rockslams.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
23rd July 2009, 04:32 PM
It may well have been the case that DM was already running things via RTC during those last years the lrh was in "hiding". So it is entirely possible that I never experienced "Ronology". However it was after DM took the reins publicly, that what I "thought" $cn was about, started to get twisted and whacko by the standards that had already been set:

Touch assists being a single pass over the body and "your done", without continuing to an EP;
The anti-child edict within the S.O.;
The aforementioned Sec-checks on OT VIIs;
The faithful execs now imprisoned in the SP Hall... etc.

I know now, looking from the outside that under Hubbard's regime things were pretty whacko anyway, but if you imagine all of $cn being written on tin-foil, then Davey has screwed it up and spread it out again, and expects people still to be able to make some sense of it. He's added several layers of Waco whacko in addition to perpetuating the criminal activities of his Lord and Master. lrh's moral compass used to oscillate wildly, but dm's just spins. I bet myself that getting dm onto a meter would result in a significant number of rockslams.

Hubbard's moral compass, never fluctuated it was always pointing directly on himself, give me one example of anything Hubbard ever did which was not self serving?

ChronicEnturbulator
23rd July 2009, 08:51 PM
I bet myself that getting dm onto a meter would result in a significant number of rockslams.
Sometimes I wonder about that...

Sometomes I get the impression that he's a cynical, corrupt, self-serving, con-man (just like the old man), who got the ultimate lucky-break. If he hadn't been in the excact right place at the exact right time to position himself to become the head of the Scientology crime-syndicate, he'd be a nothing more than the night-shift manager of a Burger King somewhere in Riverside.


Other times I get the impression that he believes that he's the ONLY ethics-in being in the entire universe. A genuine true-believer who must make the HARD CHOICES because no one else is up-to-snuff.

uniquemand
24th July 2009, 01:07 AM
Depends which end of the GPM he's currently dramatizing.

Searcher Again
24th July 2009, 05:30 AM
If a true Solo Auditing Pre-OT flew their Ruds properly there would be no need for Sec Checks.

The CS would know.

Evidently some CS' are holding back reports.

Veda
24th July 2009, 07:04 AM
If a true Solo Auditing Pre-OT flew their Ruds properly there would be no need for Sec Checks.

The CS would know.

Evidently some CS' are holding back reports.

So true, if the person's Ruds were in, the person would never have had such things as "unkind thoughts about LRH" (Security Check question) in the first place.

Tech is out in Orgs!

Royal Prince Xenu
24th July 2009, 10:39 AM
Hubbard's moral compass, never fluctuated it was always pointing directly on himself, give me one example of anything Hubbard ever did which was not self serving?

Sorry about that. I forgot that the entire Universe revolved around Hubbard.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 11:53 AM
Sorry about that. I forgot that the entire Universe revolved around Hubbard.

Yeah let's just forget all about how much of a piece of shit Hubbard was, and blame his policies on somebody else ... whadayasay?

Royal Prince Xenu
24th July 2009, 02:18 PM
Yeah let's just forget all about how much of a piece of shit Hubbard was, and blame his policies on somebody else ... whadayasay?

The stuff we're generally blaming on DM is the further degeneration of what $cn says it is versus what it really is.

Yes, it's emerging more and more that pre-1980 was a sick period that $ucked people dry, but the forced abortions and dumping people from the SO onto the streets because they had kids is pure DMology. The ongoing sec-checks on OT VII: more DMology.

I remember being briefed after lrh's "departure" that the SO#1 line would remain "open". Heber Jensch(?) was theta enough for me to believe this, but the crap from DM leaves him as open to "psychic communication" as a postage stamp.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 02:39 PM
The stuff we're generally blaming on DM is the further degeneration of what $cn says it is versus what it really is.

Yes, it's emerging more and more that pre-1980 was a sick period that $ucked people dry, but the forced abortions and dumping people from the SO onto the streets because they had kids is pure DMology. The ongoing sec-checks on OT VII: more DMology.

I remember being briefed after lrh's "departure" that the SO#1 line would remain "open". Heber Jensch(?) was theta enough for me to believe this, but the crap from DM leaves him as open to "psychic communication" as a postage stamp.

The only difference between Miscavige's abuses and Hubbard is that Miscavige's abuses are better documented since they are more recent. Hubbard was the twisted piece of shit who trained Miscavige to abuse people for personal gain just as he did himself. It's all about advancing Hubbard's totalitarian cult at all costs. Hubbard's policies clearly state that anything hindering the advancement of his cult is to be eliminated. Miscavige just happen to be more focused than drugged out, crazy old Ron was. Yes Miscavige is a criminal, and so will the next Ronbot who takes his place and the next. They have to be criminals or they will not be able to keep Scientology working as per Hubbard's policies.

uniquemand
24th July 2009, 02:43 PM
The only difference between Miscavige's abuses and Hubbard is that Miscavige's abuses are better documented since they are more recent. Hubbard was the twisted piece of shit who trained Miscavige to abuse people for personal gain just as he did himself. It's all about advancing Hubbard's totalitarian cult at all costs. Hubbard's policies clearly state that anything hindering the advancement of his cult is to be eliminated. Miscavige just happen to be more focused than drugged out, crazy old Ron was. Yes Miscavige is a criminal, and so will the next Ronbot who takes his place and the next. They have to be criminals or they will not be able to keep Scientology working as per Hubbard's policies.

Yes, yes, anger grumble anger.

Does it ever exhaust you to exude spleen so constantly?

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 02:54 PM
Yes, yes, anger grumble anger.

Does it ever exhaust you to exude spleen so constantly?

Nope not at all, I find exposing a piece of shit like Hubbard quite relaxing, but thanks for asking.

Now let me ask you a question

why does it bother you so much?

uniquemand
24th July 2009, 02:59 PM
Nope not at all, why does it bother you so much?

It doesn't. I'm just wondering if it bothers you.

I actually enjoy hashing out these points, but was kind of busting your balls about your "tone". I just have a hard time getting worked into a lather about this stuff (or anything, really), though I understand why it is a source of anger.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 03:06 PM
It doesn't. I'm just wondering if it bothers you.

I actually enjoy hashing out these points, but was kind of busting your balls about your "tone". I just have a hard time getting worked into a lather about this stuff (or anything, really), though I understand why it is a source of anger.


If it doesn't bother you then I'm having difficulty understanding what's the problem is? I personally don't understand how anyone can get emotional about anything posted on a message board.

uniquemand
24th July 2009, 03:32 PM
If it doesn't bother you then I'm having difficulty understanding what's the problem is? I personally don't understand how anyone can get emotional about anything posted on a message board.

I'll get to "the problem" at the end of this post. I do think there's an over-emphasis on anger at Ron or David Miscavige, or even at Scientology. I do acknowledge that Ron is responsible for creating what I like to refer to as a "Hate Machine" (*bows to Nine Inch Nails*), and that David Miscavige has taken it up a notch, and that many of us were "victimized" by this cult. However, I think the trick to recovery is dealing with any anger about this, and taking responsibility for allowing ourselves to be victims, or worse, to participate in the victimization of others, either as staff members or FSMs.

I find the continual spouting of anger tiresome, though I do understand it. I guess there are a lot of people who agree with this sort of thing, and at times, I've participated, but I think there are more productive things to discuss.

I'm interested in putting a stop to the Church of Scientology's abuse, and to helping people who've been abused by the Church, but I'm not interested in ranting about it, myself, and nearly zero interest in hearing other people's ranting about it. I think it clutters up the board, makes people who feel conflicted about Scientology feel unsafe to post for fear of ridicule, and is generally "entheta". :) YMMV.

Royal Prince Xenu
24th July 2009, 03:33 PM
The only difference between Miscavige's abuses and Hubbard is that Miscavige's abuses are better documented since they are more recent. Hubbard was the twisted piece of shit who trained Miscavige to abuse people for personal gain just as he did himself. It's all about advancing Hubbard's totalitarian cult at all costs. Hubbard's policies clearly state that anything hindering the advancement of his cult is to be eliminated. Miscavige just happen to be more focused than drugged out, crazy old Ron was. Yes Miscavige is a criminal, and so will the next Ronbot who takes his place and the next. They have to be criminals or they will not be able to keep Scientology working as per Hubbard's policies.

I understand that, but Hubbard had one thing on his side that DM completely lacks. lrh had some kind of charisma that pulled people in and got them excited enough to pull other people in. As per my previous comparison dm doesn't even have the charisma of said postage stamp. It's under dm's control that all the party faithful high execs are now locked up in the SP hall (for daring to cite policy?).

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 03:52 PM
I understand that, but Hubbard had one thing on his side that DM completely lacks. lrh had some kind of charisma that pulled people in and got them excited enough to pull other people in. As per my previous comparison dm doesn't even have the charisma of said postage stamp. It's under dm's control that all the party faithful high execs are now locked up in the SP hall (for daring to cite policy?).

Absolutely Hubbard was a master con man and Miscavige is strictly business, you'll get no argument from me about that.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 03:57 PM
I'll get to "the problem" at the end of this post. I do think there's an over-emphasis on anger at Ron or David Miscavige, or even at Scientology. I do acknowledge that Ron is responsible for creating what I like to refer to as a "Hate Machine" (*bows to Nine Inch Nails*), and that David Miscavige has taken it up a notch, and that many of us were "victimized" by this cult. However, I think the trick to recovery is dealing with any anger about this, and taking responsibility for allowing ourselves to be victims, or worse, to participate in the victimization of others, either as staff members or FSMs.

I find the continual spouting of anger tiresome, though I do understand it. I guess there are a lot of people who agree with this sort of thing, and at times, I've participated, but I think there are more productive things to discuss.

I'm interested in putting a stop to the Church of Scientology's abuse, and to helping people who've been abused by the Church, but I'm not interested in ranting about it, myself, and nearly zero interest in hearing other people's ranting about it. I think it clutters up the board, makes people who feel conflicted about Scientology feel unsafe to post for fear of ridicule, and is generally "entheta". :) YMMV.

I think Hubbard is a complete piece of shit and his totalitarian mind control scam needs to exposed that is not going to change anytime soon, but what makes you think I'm angry? I'm usually laughing while I post here.

If my posts bother you so much, just ad me to your ignore list and you won't need to see them anymore ... problem solved.

uniquemand
24th July 2009, 04:00 PM
I think Hubbard is a complete piece of shit and his totalitarian mind control scam needs to exposed that is not going to change anytime soon, but what makes you think I'm angry? I'm usually laughing while I post here.

If my posts bother you so much, just ad me to your ignore list and you won't need to see them anymore ... problem solved.

I'm not worried about my reactions or thoughts, actually. This board is not about me (much as it pains my ego to say so). Please reread what I wrote (last paragraph), and you'll see what my concerns were.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 04:08 PM
I'm not worried about my reactions or thoughts, actually. This board is not about me (much as it pains my ego to say so). Please reread what I wrote (last paragraph), and you'll see what my concerns were.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I on the other hand would rather do them the favor of bitchslapping them into reality, so they can take back their lives from Hubbard and his twisted mind control con game. Sure there may be some value in pretending Hubbard was not a twisted self service manipulator and Miscavige is the root of all evil in the Church, but I just don't see it. I don't know... maybe if I looking to recruit people into the Freezone so they can continue with Hubbard's mind control there instead of Hubbard's Church it would make more sense to me. Besides they are also free to add me to their ignore list, if they are not able to handle what I'm telling them.

Rae
25th July 2009, 12:24 AM
Looked at the site. It contains some truths and a fair amount of mis-information and half truths.

I've helped a lot of people free themselves from Scientology (IRL), and I did it - albeit diplomatically and carefully - without resorting to mis-information and half-truth-telling.

People have been leaving Scientology for years without needing to be lied to.

"Lie to get them into Scientology. Lie to keep them in Scientology. Lie to get them out of Scientology."

No thanks. One can be diplomatic and tactful without lying.

Hmmm..interesting response. And just out of curiousity..what do you think is misinformation and 1/2 truths on that blog?