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Terril park
22nd July 2009, 06:44 PM
I've been wondering recently about what all those on OT 7 in the COS have been doing. Have many just stopped doing the level?

Have any just carried on on their own without bothering to go to flag,
or find the Freezone? There are lots of good reasons why one might
choose such a path, but I don't know of any.

What percentage of those who start actually finish?

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
22nd July 2009, 07:09 PM
Now that just about everyone on the planet knows Scientology has never even come close to producing an OT. They probably wised up and figure it's not worth the hassle of completely it, since no one is fooled into thinking Hubbard's Tech produces OT powers.

angel
22nd July 2009, 11:35 PM
Chuckie your such a broken record...

One of the very few times I ever went exterior was in the presense of an OT 7. SPARKLY :D

Another OT 7 came to our org with an entourage and my attention went immediatly to the OT 7 like a magnet.

Both times I wasnt looking for phenomena or expecting anything at all. I was an innocent newbie.

These were two of the first completions to roll out and they went on tour. There is one named Michael something or other. Right on the tip of my tongue damn it. Michael was a field auditor in the San Fernando Valley. As of 2 years ago he was still field auditing.

Jen

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
22nd July 2009, 11:42 PM
Chuckie your such a broken record...

One of the very few times I ever went exterior was in the presense of an OT 7. SPARKLY :D

Another OT 7 came to our org with an entourage and my attention went immediatly to the OT 7 like a magnet.

Both times I wasnt looking for phenomena or expecting anything at all. I was an innocent newbie.

These were two of the first completions to roll out and they went on tour. There is one named Michael something or other. Right on the tip of my tongue damn it. Michael was a field auditor in the San Fernando Valley. As of 2 years ago he was still field auditing.

Jen

if "going exterior" is what you are looking for, and you are having such a hard time "going exterior" then why not just find a better hypnotist, there's no need to spend decades auditing poorly written 1950s science fiction

Feral
22nd July 2009, 11:55 PM
I've been wondering recently about what all those on OT 7 in the COS have been doing. Have many just stopped doing the level?

Have any just carried on on their own without bothering to go to flag,
or find the Freezone? There are lots of good reasons why one might
choose such a path, but I don't know of any.

What percentage of those who start actually finish?

Not many comp Terril. My wife was only the third in NSW. There have been more since but there are thousands of arbitraries to achieve the EP, by Flag's lights anyway.

A lot is expected currently from an OT VII comp and Flag won't even do an EP check on someone who has somatics, scenes in their lives or high blood pressure.

A few more completions should be all it takes for the public to start to discount their ideas of what abilities an OTVII should have.

angel
23rd July 2009, 12:27 AM
I never said I was looking to go exterior.

I never said I was trying to go exterior.

I never spent decades auditing science fiction... Pretty Psycho Chuck.

In regards to the topic, I said I know the OT 7 named Michael is a field auditor in the valley.

Jen

Imnotsupposetobehere
23rd July 2009, 12:34 AM
I've been wondering recently about what all those on OT 7 in the COS have been doing. Have many just stopped doing the level?

Have any just carried on on their own without bothering to go to flag,
or find the Freezone? There are lots of good reasons why one might
choose such a path, but I don't know of any.

What percentage of those who start actually finish?

Well, I know when I was at PAC they where advertising like crazy for it however I never saw anyone above OT5
NOTs goes on forever the way they have it set up
NOT's was originally suppose to be a RD
Sorry I can't be more helpful

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
23rd July 2009, 12:35 AM
I never said I was looking to go exterior.

I never said I was trying to go exterior.

I never spent decades auditing science fiction... Pretty Psycho Chuck.

In regards to the topic, I said I know the OT 7 named Michael is a field auditor in the valley.

Jen

No need to get so worked up about it, I never claimed you spent decades auditing science fiction, unless of course you are an OTVII too, which I have no idea if you are or not

CornPie
23rd July 2009, 01:24 AM
Now that just about everyone on the planet knows Scientology has never even come close to producing an OT...
Everybody on the planet does 'NOT' know that scientology has never produced an OT. Perhaps a lot of people around here have heard it though. In my case I need to hear something numerous times, before I believe it. I always laughed at the Xenu/BT story. But up until a week ago, I actually thought there may have been something to being an OT. But now I finally believe it's a scam -- I just needed to hear it enough times.

Videos of people like (OT7) Beghe (and others) complaining about all the sec-checks, saying, "show me an OT", were very effective in driving the point home to me. Supplemented by recent posts by (OT7) Mrs Pattycake, who hammered a real dagger into the OT8 scam. But the final straw was Sparrow's videos in Clearwater last weekend (link below), where he protested at the Sandcastle Hotel in Clearwater, he said the OT's stay there -- and the OT's were running away like scared mice. That was the final straw for me; OT powers are a myth.

And so, ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn, it may sound like a 'broken record', but I think it can't be said enough, by enough people.

See Sparrow's 2nd Video on this thread, of OT's running away like chickens in Clearwater, FL:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12584

Iknowtoomuch
23rd July 2009, 01:44 AM
Then there's the question of how many want to finish but just can't fork out the 30K to go to Flag every 6 months.

Terril park
23rd July 2009, 01:47 AM
Not many comp Terril. My wife was only the third in NSW. There have been more since but there are thousands of arbitraries to achieve the EP, by Flag's lights anyway.

A lot is expected currently from an OT VII comp and Flag won't even do an EP check on someone who has somatics, scenes in their lives or high blood pressure.

A few more completions should be all it takes for the public to start to discount their ideas of what abilities an OTVII should have.

Well I have high blood pressure, or would if I didn't take the meds. No
side effects whatsoever.

High blood pressure is generally considered a genetic issue. For me small veins.

This violates the basic premises of 8008. Reducing the power of the mest universe, maximising the power of the theta universe. So they give up and abandon that.

How many started in NSW if you know?

RolandRB
23rd July 2009, 02:15 AM
I've been wondering recently about what all those on OT 7 in the COS have been doing.



They are masturbating on their delusions. That is if they have enough money. Can they do this cheaper through the freezone?

degraded being
23rd July 2009, 02:24 AM
They have to get people who are vitually perfect in every way.
First the person has to want to be a dedicated ronbot.
Must have the ca$h.
Must have time to fck around at Flag for months.
More ca$h

So that limits their OT public A LOT. Most people under a certain age just won't have had the time to fulfill the above conditions. So, generally their OT 7 customers are going to be older age group.

Then they have to audit for 5? hours a day and stay sessionable while pulling in more ca$h and going to flag for sec checks and more intensives.

This (generally) older/aging group is likely to have some discomforts which all humans suffer at some time, but the older ones want to be nore careful about. For example, sleeplessness becomes more of a problem, because of lower serotonin levels, - which also make stress more difficult to deal with . Some people, at this age have to manage blood pressure and other heart issues. Arthritis and other condtions may come up, perhaps not as a major problem, just as something to consider in figuring out how to live healthily. For quite healthy people, things happen now and again to their normal human bodies.

But OT 7s have to be perfect. Not to be so means the tech has failed - to be blamed on the OT of course- but the point is they are supposed to be inhumanly superhuman.

So the ones that "make it" are what is left after all non perfect specimens have been weed out.

Problem is, the perfect ones who have made it are only perfect temporarily. Such is the human body. And such is life. All the large and very small disasters that we suffer and overcome. OTs must have pan determined control over all of them. Cause over the MESSY Universe. Meanwhile, as they are waiting to get back to flag, some part of that annoying little thing called Life, proves that they are not yet perfect. Surprise surprise. But one day, or one decade, they finally get through by not being able to see past the nose on their own face anymore. They attest.

They go back home. How long is it before they add up the outpoints that prove they have not gotten the gains of OT7.
Unless they lie to themselves.

Div6
23rd July 2009, 02:35 AM
High Blood Pressure? Is there an HCOB on WHAT constitutes high blood pressure? The reason I ask is that in the US, up until about 7 - 10 years ago, HBP was considered Age + 100. Now, the standard has been set at 140....without peer review or comment.

Maybe DM is just following Pharma's lead on the introduction of arbitraries.

Kathy (ImOut)
23rd July 2009, 03:25 AM
I've been wondering recently about what all those on OT 7 in the COS have been doing. Have many just stopped doing the level?

Have any just carried on on their own without bothering to go to flag,
or find the Freezone? There are lots of good reasons why one might
choose such a path, but I don't know of any.

What percentage of those who start actually finish?

Now that I know this isn't a "serious" thread I can respond the way I wanted to the first time I read the thread title.

"What are those on OT 7 doing?"

Picking their noses and spending tons and tons of money. :happydance:

I'm sorry, I can be such a smart ass at times.

Panda Termint
23rd July 2009, 06:39 AM
It depends on what you mean by Completion, too. Do you need someone else to tell you when you've achieved what you set out to achieve?

Some have managed to successfully complete OTVII without feeling any need to have that State verified by the idiots at Flag with their False/Hidden Standards.

As a matter of fact, I'd venture to suggest that almost every Pre-OT who ever embarked upon OTVII has probably finished it successfully, it's just the Flag Arbitraries that have made realising this a near impossibility.

uniquemand
23rd July 2009, 06:42 AM
Heck, it's not even my item! I don't need it!

Reasonable
23rd July 2009, 07:17 AM
I have friends who have been on for 4 years now.

I know people did make it but (and I mean this) I think that they don't let you off until you cognite to open a mission or join sea org and dedicate your life and all your money to scn....I'm serious

Just read the success stories...they are all about dedicating their lives to the cause


maybe it takes years to brainwash an OT?

pollywannacracker
23rd July 2009, 09:16 PM
I personally know two OTVII's.

One took about seven years to "complete" the level. They have also completed OTVIII. Still has tons of somatics and has never become released from previous injuries - something their C/S had told them would happen. And now has to use bifocals, which they hate!!!!

The other took much less time to complete the level. Still has their somatics as well.

So much for superhuman powers...:whistling:

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 03:49 AM
I personally know two OTVII's.

One took about seven years to "complete" the level. They have also completed OTVIII. Still has tons of somatics and has never become released from previous injuries - something their C/S had told them would happen. And now has to use bifocals, which they hate!!!!

The other took much less time to complete the level. Still has their somatics as well.

So much for superhuman powers...:whistling:

So much for superhuman powers is right, Hubbard's own son Quentin completed OTVII in the 1970s before he killed himself, can't even pawn that one off on Miscavige

RolandRB
24th July 2009, 06:07 AM
I personally know two OTVII's.

One took about seven years to "complete" the level. They have also completed OTVIII. Still has tons of somatics and has never become released from previous injuries - something their C/S had told them would happen. And now has to use bifocals, which they hate!!!!

The other took much less time to complete the level. Still has their somatics as well.

So much for superhuman powers...:whistling:

That gets handled on the next level.

Panda Termint
24th July 2009, 06:43 AM
So much for superhuman powers is right, Hubbard's own son Quentin completed OTVII in the 1970s before he killed himself, can't even pawn that one off on Miscavige
This is simply not true.

Dulloldfart
24th July 2009, 09:03 AM
This is simply not true.

I can't be bothered to check, but maybe he did complete the original OT VII. Solo NOTs is New OT VII.

Paul

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 11:03 AM
This is simply not true.

He was an OT VII and a Class XII auditor

angel
24th July 2009, 11:04 AM
I remembered the name of the OTVII. Michael Lewis. He has a field auditing practice in the San Fernando Valley. I have an old friend who works as an auditor in his group.

I am also curious if anyone knows where Quentin was on the bridge. I do not think I buy the suicide explanation. It could have been murder.

And Chuck, I am not all worked up as you stated. I personally wish that you would stop attacking the posts of others. A healthy debate by stating your point of view would be more productive. :thumbsup:

Jen

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 11:11 AM
I remembered the name of the OTVII. Michael Lewis. He has a field auditing practice in the San Fernando Valley. I have an old friend who works as an auditor in his group.

I am also curious if anyone knows where Quentin was on the bridge. I do not think I buy the suicide explanation. It could have been murder.

And Chuck, I am not all worked up as you stated. I personally wish that you would stop attacking the posts of others. A healthy debate by stating your point of view would be more productive. :thumbsup:

Jen

You jump into this thread by creating a post to specifically attack me and then you call me a psycho when I respond to it... but somehow I'm the one who is having a problem have a healthy debate ... yeah okay

Panda Termint
24th July 2009, 05:24 PM
He was an OT VII and a Class XII auditor
Chuck, Quentin died in 1976, I think.
New OTV11 - Solo NOTs, the Level Terril is asking/talking about about on this thread, was originally developed/released in Sept 1980 or thereabouts and replaced the old OTV11 sometime in the mid-80s, I think.
The original OTV11 has nothing in common with New OTV11.

Veda
24th July 2009, 06:07 PM
Post duplicated

Veda
24th July 2009, 06:08 PM
Chuck, Quentin died in 1976, I think.
New OTV11 - Solo NOTs, the Level Terril is asking/talking about about on this thread, was originally developed/released in Sept 1980 or thereabouts and replaced the old OTV11 sometime in the mid-80s, I think.
The original OTV11 has nothing in common with New OTV11.

Your timing is off. The Grade Chart was changed in late 1979, although the new Grade Chart wasn't released until early 1980. Check your old issues of 'Advance!' and 'Source'. Old OT 4 - 7 were not delivered after 1980.

Nonetheless, whatever the dates, poor Quentin never had the opportunity to be plunged further into his father's neurosis by doing the "new upper OT levels," having died - apparently having committed suicide - as you say, in 1976, around the same time that his dad was hiding out in Washington DC, and working on the details of his second attempt to frame author Paulette Cooper with the newly re-titled 'Op Freak Out'.

It was nice that the founder kept busy between breakthrough new OT levels for his disciples.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
24th July 2009, 08:01 PM
Chuck, Quentin died in 1976, I think.
New OTV11 - Solo NOTs, the Level Terril is asking/talking about about on this thread, was originally developed/released in Sept 1980 or thereabouts and replaced the old OTV11 sometime in the mid-80s, I think.
The original OTV11 has nothing in common with New OTV11.

Regardless of Hubbard's product swapping and substitutions, it's not like any of it works anyway. If there are various versions of the scam, that I can not tell you. The point is he was at the top of the bridge at the time of his suicide. He listed as an OTVII and Class XII Auditor in the Auditor Magazines prior to his suicide 1976.

Panda Termint
25th July 2009, 01:37 AM
Your timing is off. The Grade Chart was changed in late 1979, although the new Grade Chart wasn't released until early 1980. Check your old issues of 'Advance!' and 'Source'. Old OT 4 - 7 were not delivered after 1980.
<...snip>

Veda, I'm relying more on what I observed personally than CofS promo or internet data. If you choose to believe that old OTVII was not delivered after 1980, that's fine by me. It just doesn't quite align with the fact that I personally observed it being delivered to CofS Public two decades later.

I know that it's a moot point. It's just that Chuck's assertions about Quentin Hubbard being OTVII on a thread about Solo NOTs could so easily be misunderstood by readers. I know how you feel about half-truths and misinformation

Terril park
25th July 2009, 03:07 AM
Veda, I'm relying more on what I observed personally than CofS promo or internet data. If you choose to believe that old OTVII was not delivered after 1980, that's fine by me. It just doesn't quite align with the fact that I personally observed it being delivered to CofS Public two decades later.

I know that it's a moot point. It's just that Chuck's assertions about Quentin Hubbard being OTVII on a thread about Solo NOTs could so easily be misunderstood by readers. I know how you feel about half-truths and misinformation

Thats interesting Panda and little known, in fact this is the first report
I've seen on this.

I believe in 2000 original OT7 was not on the grade chart.
What was the rationale behind its delivery, and how many people recieved it?

Panda Termint
25th July 2009, 04:57 AM
Thats interesting Panda and little known, in fact this is the first report
I've seen on this.

I believe in 2000 original OT7 was not on the grade chart.
What was the rationale behind its delivery, and how many people recieved it?
The rationale was the same as it was in earlier years, Terril.
More on OT3 i.e. OT3 -> original OTVII -> OT3X.
This was possibly more common than some would be aware.
From direct experience, I know of several.

Veda
25th July 2009, 06:47 AM
Veda, I'm relying more on what I observed personally than CofS promo or internet data. If you choose to believe that old OTVII was not delivered after 1980, that's fine by me. It just doesn't quite align with the fact that I personally observed it being delivered to CofS Public two decades later.

I know that it's a moot point. It's just that Chuck's assertions about Quentin Hubbard being OTVII on a thread about Solo NOTs could so easily be misunderstood by readers. I know how you feel about half-truths and misinformation

I'm relying mainly on conversations with AOLA, from late 1979, regarding changes in the Grade Chart. I suggested digging up and examing old 'Advance!' and 'Source' mags as a means for others to check this themselves.

First you stated that old OT 7 was replaced by new OT 7 sometime in the mid '80s. That's what I was responding to. I've no idea if, as a specialized action, old OT 7 was delivered at some other time.

The main point, really, is that the "Grade Chart" changed under Hubbard's watch, and by his orders (see David Mayo's statements, if you care), not - as some in the Freezone believe - because of evil "Marcabian agent," Miscavige.

You're quite right in that Quentin could not have done new OT 7, as the FBI raids had not yet occurred, Hubbard had not had his post-FBI raid nervous breakdown, and the degree of paranoia and introversion required for Hubbard to come up with thousands of previously invisible dormant "BTs" as the "why" for his mental and physical problems was not yet present.

Panda Termint
25th July 2009, 10:59 AM
Fair enough, that's why I said, "I think" rather than "I'm certain".

Dulloldfart
25th July 2009, 05:47 PM
Old OT VII was delivered way after about 1980, and may still be being delivered today in the CofS. But Old OT IV, V and VI weren't, and aren't.

Paul

Terril park
26th July 2009, 01:09 AM
The rationale was the same as it was in earlier years, Terril.
More on OT3 i.e. OT3 -> original OTVII -> OT3X.
This was possibly more common than some would be aware.
From direct experience, I know of several.

OK!

Who'd of thunk. [ what years?]

A pluspoint of RTC?

Then the current statements are some OT 7's are not clear?

COS still delivers this lineup?

The FZ does.

:))))

Panda Termint
26th July 2009, 02:11 AM
OK!

Who'd of thunk. [ what years?]

A pluspoint of RTC?

Then the current statements are some OT 7's are not clear?

COS still delivers this lineup?

The FZ does.

:))))
Terril, I'd attribute this action (3>7>3X) to a smart and caring Solo C/S who was trying to do the best job he could (for the Pre-OT) with the tools he had to hand.

An RTC pluspoint? I'm not sure about that but I have audited some RTC Programs that were quite OK.

As to the years, I said 2 decades after the release of New OTVII which would put it in the years up to 2000.

I'll add more if I think of it, what are you asking about 7s and Clear?

Mystic
26th July 2009, 02:28 AM
I did the original 'OT VII' back in the early 70s, around late '73ish. At that time the HubPhart think on it was that after OT III you then go do OT VII to get a power boost and then go back and do OT III again, called 'OT III Expanded' at that time. "The ability to project any intention" was the so-called "EP" attested at Exams.

Hilarious, projecting intention to psychically influence. That's just some minor goal in black magick. How spiritually puny scientology is. The tech is the implant.