Has BFG Lost His Case?

[masonj]

I found this link. IANAL but when I read this judgment, from the sound of it, it looks like BFG lost his case:

Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology International (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20223140/Order-Deynying-Plaintiffs-Motion-for-Summary-Ajudication)

[Dulloldfart]

IANAL either, but it seems to me that all he lost is the chance to have a big part of it decided in his favour without arguing the case back and forth in court (summary judgment).

Paul

[comgud]

I believe that's just a motion for a summary judgement that was denied. i.e. they won't skip the trial and just find CSI at fault. IANAL either tho'.

[Feral]

I found this link. IANAL but when I read this judgment, from the sound of it, it looks like BFG lost his case:

Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology International (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20223140/Order-Deynying-Plaintiffs-Motion-for-Summary-Ajudication)

I'm sure you know that it's going before a jury.

What do you think will happen to the human trafficking case when they hear the following;

That the cult illegally employs minors, enforces abortions at the rate of nearly 100 per year, has it's own gulag, keeps it's staff under guard behind razor wire and 'off loads' them when they become ill or infirmed, makes them work over 100 hours per week and if they leave gets them to sign one sided waivers that they will never mention any of the crimes that were committed against them as well as excommunicating them from their loved ones through the mechanism of SP declares. Then serves them with an enormous bill for the services they received?

For all that they get fed beans and rice and paid enough to buy the shampoo, razors and vitamins they need.

Do you really think BFG will lose when it gets to that point?....Or are you just trolling again?

This is the death knell for the abuse that the cult has perpetrated, soon, when all this comes out it will be the subject of endless documentaries and current affairs spots. Then surely main stream media will prick up their ears and follow every arrest and charge leveled at the church internationally with that they will feed the general public's hunger for news of bizarre, ritualized abuse.

The more the spotlight is shone on the cults abuses the more the public and official outrage will demand more action until it eats the Sea Org up, then it will be a sad joke like the Moonies and Jonestown.

So, take that back to your masters MasonJ and have them tell you it's all some ones deluded reality springing from their evil purposes or just another NCG failed case ranting, eh?.

[Iknowtoomuch]

The allegations are harsh to hear for someone that knows nothing about Scientology.
I pray they present the facts perfectly. Otherwise they will lose credibility fast.
Some of that will be tough to prove or even show.

[Lohan2008]

[QUOTE=masonj;307062] it looks like BFG lost his case: QUOTE]

The court ruled that BFG was not an employee, and NOT covered under Fair Labour Laws.... Marc can still press his claims for compensation.

FAIL, masonj.... RESTART !

[skollie]

I found this link. IANAL but when I read this judgment, from the sound of it, it looks like BFG lost his case:

Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology International (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20223140/Order-Deynying-Plaintiffs-Motion-for-Summary-Ajudication)

At the very bottom of the page:


Because the Court finds on this record, there are genuine issues of fact as to whether Golden Era's work constitutes "ordinary commercial activities", it need not assess the other issues raised by the parties in their briefing. Defendants motion to strike Headley's declaration is denied as moot.

[Megalomaniac]

Could anyone post the contents of this, for us :flasher: Flash-challenged folks?

[Kha Khan]

Could anyone post the contents of this, for us :flasher: Flash-challenged folks? The Court Order (https://ecf.cacd.uscourts.gov/doc1/03118820776) (need PACER (http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/) account to access link) is below::
Proceedings: (In Chambers) Order DENYING Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary
Adjudication of Facts and Conclusions of Law (Docket No. 14)

The Court deems this matter appropriate for decision without oral argument. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 78; Local Rule 7-15. The hearing set for September 28, 2009 is removed from the Court’s calendar. The stipulation to continue the hearing is denied as moot.

I. FACTUAL BACKGROUND

In about 1989, Headley, who was still in high school, applied to join the Sea Org. (Defs.’ Statement of Genuine Issues at ¶ 74.) The Sea Org is a religious order of the Church of Scientology International (“CSI”) that requires its members to commit themselves to one billion years of service to the CSI. (Id. at ¶ 30.) On May 31, 1990, Headley signed the Sea Org’s covenant of religious commitment and started to work at Golden Era, a division of CSI that produces films, music, tapes, cassettes and CDs about the CSI. (Id. at ¶¶ 1, 51) Headley worked at Golden Era from 1990 until January 3, 2005 in a variety of different capacities. (Id. at ¶¶ 1, 86-105.) He alleges that he worked an average of 100 hours per week, and that CSI paid him an average of $0.39 per hour. (Id. at ¶19.) He also alleges that Golden Era was run with the intent to maximize profits. (Headley Supp. Decl. at ¶¶ 9-18.)

II. LEGAL STANDARDS

Summary judgment shall be granted where “the pleadings, the discovery and disclosure materials on file, and any affidavits show that there is no genuine issue as to any material fact and that the movant is entitled to judgment as a matter of law.” Fed. R. Civ. P. 56(c). The moving party has the burden of demonstrating the absence of a genuine issue of fact for trial. Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 256 (1986). Because the moving party has the burden of proof at trial, he must establish “beyond controversy every essential element” of his claim. So. Cal. Gas Co. v. City of Santa Ana, 336 F.3d 885, 888 (9th Cir. 2003) (internal quotation marks omitted) (adopting the district court’s opinion).

III. DISCUSSION

The Fair Labor Standards Act (“FLSA”) provides a variety of labor protections to covered “employees,” including minimum wage and overtime protections. See, generally, 29 U.S.C. §§ 201 et seq. The FLSA “reaches only the ‘ordinary commercial activities’ of religious organizations, 29 CFR § 779.214 (1984), and only those who engage in those activities in expectation of compensation.” Tony and Susan Alamo Found. v. Sec’y of Labor, 471 U.S. 290, 302 (1985) (“Alamo”). A church-run business that “serve[s] the general public in competition with ordinary commercial enterprises” is covered by the FLSA; otherwise church-run businesses would have an unfair competitive edge over their non-religious affiliated competitors. Id. at 299. Whether a church-run business is engaged in “ordinary commercial activities” is a factual issue. Id. at 298-99. The Parties agree the scope of the FLSA’s coverage for similarly situated workers is the same as California labor law.1 (Pl.’s Mot. at 14-16); (Defs.’ Opp. at 10-11.)

Plaintiff’s Motion fails because he has not established beyond controversy that Golden Era’s business activities constitute “ordinary commercial activities.” Although Plaintiff has put forward evidence that Golden Era had the intent to maximize profits, Plaintiff did not allege that any other business enterprise competes with Golden Era in the marketplace. Moreover, there is no evidence that Golden Era competes with other entities in disseminating multimedia products about the CSI. Cf. Alamo, 471 U.S. at 292 (finding FLSA covers employees who work at the service stations, retail clothing and grocery outlets, farms, construction companies, a record keeping company, a motel, and candy companies of a religious non-profit foundation). Without such evidence, Alamo’s rationale cannot be applied here. Plaintiff’s Motion fails.2

IV. CONCLUSION

The Court DENIES Plaintiff’s Motion.

IT IS SO ORDERED.

*********************************
1 Plaintiff appears to backtrack from this agreement in his Reply, but -- as in his Motion – he relies on Bureerong v. Uvawas, 922 F. Supp. 1450 (C.D. Cal. 1996), to define the scope of California’s labor laws. (Pl.’s Reply at 4); see also Bureerong, 922 F. Supp. at 1470 (“the Court finds that the California courts would likely adopt the federal FLSA’s broad definition of ‘employment.’”). Moreover, Plaintiff does not cite to any authority suggesting that the scope of California’s labor laws is greater than federal labor law for people who are similarly situated. (Pl.’s Reply at 3-5.); Bldg. Material and Constr. Teamsters’ Union, Local 216 v. Farrell, 41 Cal. 3d 651, 658-59 (1986) (“Federal decisions have frequently guided our interpretation of state labor provisions” unless California’s state labor protections are more extensive in a particular area than federal law). Regardless, the Court “need not consider arguments raised for the first time in a reply brief.” Zamani v. Carnes, 491 F.3d 990, 997 (9th Cir. 2007).

2 Because the Court finds that, on this record, there are genuine issues of fact as to whether Golden Era’s work constitutes “ordinary commercial activities,” it need not assess the other issues raised by the parties in their briefing. Defendants’ motion to strike Headley’s declaration is denied as moot.
This does NOT mean that BFG lost his case. What it means is that his attempt to have a specific issue determined in his favor prior to trial was denied. As a result, as of now that issue and all other issues will be decided at a trial before a jury.

[Kha Khan]

Deleting accidental double post.

[scooter]

I found this link. IANAL but when I read this judgment, from the sound of it, it looks like BFG lost his case:

Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology International (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20223140/Order-Deynying-Plaintiffs-Motion-for-Summary-Ajudication)

Sorry to disappoint you but it looks to me like BFG's case is proceeding as planned and we may yet see DM, the Robert Mugabe of cult leaders himself called to the witness stand on this one.:happydance: :hysterical:

Not even sure how your post would count as an OSA stat - could you enlighten me please?:D

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

OSA stats are false reports , so I am sure it helped get them up:D


Sorry to disappoint you but it looks to me like BFG's case is proceeding as planned and we may yet see DM, the Robert Mugabe of cult leaders himself called to the witness stand on this one.:happydance: :hysterical:

Not even sure how your post would count as an OSA stat - could you enlighten me please?:D

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Sorry to disappoint you but it looks to me like BFG's case is proceeding as planned and we may yet see DM, the Robert Mugabe of cult leaders himself called to the witness stand on this one.:happydance: :hysterical:

Not even sure how your post would count as an OSA stat - could you enlighten me please?:D

Won't it be a little embarrassing for him to have to stand on the chair in order see over top of the Witness Box?

[Iknowtoomuch]

Won't it be a little embarrassing for him to have to stand on the chair in order see over top of the Witness Box?



Don't they have phone books in court rooms??:D

[masonj]

I'm sure you know that it's going before a jury.

What do you think will happen to the human trafficking case when they hear the following;

That the cult illegally employs minors, enforces abortions at the rate of nearly 100 per year, has it's own gulag, keeps it's staff under guard behind razor wire and 'off loads' them when they become ill or infirmed, makes them work over 100 hours per week and if they leave gets them to sign one sided waivers that they will never mention any of the crimes that were committed against them as well as excommunicating them from their loved ones through the mechanism of SP declares. Then serves them with an enormous bill for the services they recieved?

For all that they get fed beans and rice and paid enough to but the shampoo, razors and vitamins they need.

Do you really think BFG will lose when it gets to that point?....Or are you just trolling again?

This is the death knell for the abuse that the cult has perpetrated, soon, when all this comes out it will be the subject of endless documentaries and current affairs spots. Then surely main stream media will prick up their ears and follow every arrest and charge leveled at the church internationally with that they will feed the general public's hunger for bizarre ritualized abuse.

The more the spotlight is shone on the cults abuses the more the public and official outrage will demand more action until it eats the Sea Org up, then it will be a sad joke like the Moonies and Jonestown.

So, take that back to your masters MasonJ and have them tell you it's all some ones deluded reality springing from their evil purposes or just another NCG failed case ranting, eh?.


Tinfoil. Next you're going to claim the Judge was a Scientologist. :)

[Ladybird]

What I see is that Marc Headly (BFG/ Blown For Good) and his co-plaintiffs and lawyers didn't accept an easy pay-off with a gag order from the cult as have so many before them.

Somebody has to stand up against this cult that abuses our legal system and practices mafia style "fair game" to harrass and silence its critics and abuse it's members.

It's good news that this case is going to trial.

[masonj]

[QUOTE=masonj;307062] it looks like BFG lost his case: QUOTE]

The court ruled that BFG was not an employee, and NOT covered under Fair Labour Laws.... Marc can still press his claims for compensation.

FAIL, masonj.... RESTART !

I agree that this is what the court order seems to be saying i.e. that he was not an employee. If he was not an employee, then the FLSA doesn't apply and the church doesn't have to pay minimum wage or any other compensation. BFG has to show that he worked for some commercial business that the church was running. That's why I say it looked to me like the case had been lost.

[Iknowtoomuch]

Hey there Mason....are you still married to Bonnie?

[Feral]

Tinfoil. Next you're going to claim the Judge was a Scientologist. :)

Did you read what I wrote? I can't follow your answer, I also don't think you understand what 'summary judgment' means.

I invite any one who doesn't think you're trolling to read all twelve of your posts, accessible by opening your profile and clicking on the "find all posts by Masonj" button.

Pretty amusing really, I see that every time OSA is worried about this human trafficking charge they send in a troll to DA it.

[masonj]

At the very bottom of the page:

That's correct. But the court order shows that the court does not think that the production of religious materials that are sold by Golden Era and materials to disseminate Scientology for CSI is a commercial activity. You may not like it but it my opinion is that this pretty much blows the main theory of the case.

The court stated:

“The Fair Labor Standards Act (“FLSA”) provides a variety of labor protections to cover “employees,” including minimum wage and overtime protections. The FLSA “reaches only the 'ordinary commercial activities' of religious organizations, and only those who engage in those activities in expectation of compensation.” A church-run business that “serve[s] the general public in competition with ordinary commercial enterprises” is covered by the FLSA; otherwise church-run businesses would have an unfair competitive edge over their non-religious affiliated competitors. Whether a church-run business is engaged in “ordinary commercial activities” is a factual issue. The Parties agree the scope of the FLSA's coverage for similarly situated workers is the same as California labor law.”

“Plaintiff's Motion fails because he has not established beyond controversy that Golden Era's business activities constitute 'ordinary commercial activities.' Although Plaintiff has put forward evidence that Golden Era had the intent to maximize profits, Plaintiff did not allege that any other business enterprise competes with Golden Era in the marketplace. Moreover, there is no evidence that Golden Era competes with other entities in disseminating multimedia products about the CSI. Cf. Alamo 471 U.S. At 292 (finding FLSA covers employees who work at service stations, retail clothing and grocery outlets, farms, construction companies, a record keeping company, a motel, and candy companies of a religious non-profit foundation). Without such evidence, Alamo's rationale cannot be applied here. Plaintiff's Motion fails.”

[Feral]

That's correct. But the court order shows that the court does not think that the production of religious materials that are sold by Golden Era and materials to disseminate Scientology for CSI is a commercial activity. You may not like it but it my opinion is that this pretty much blows the main theory of the case.

snip

Not true, the main thrust of the case is human trafficking, it is now a grievously serious matter for the CofS.

Your master is doomed.

[Tim Skog]

I found this link. IANAL but when I read this judgment, from the sound of it, it looks like BFG lost his case:

Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology International (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20223140/Order-Deynying-Plaintiffs-Motion-for-Summary-Ajudication)

That's right, you aren't a lawyer. You're a troll. Maybe you should have gone to law school. Then you wouldn't have the lousy job of shilling for scamotology.

[Megalomaniac]

The Court Order (https://ecf.cacd.uscourts.gov/doc1/03118820776) (need PACER (http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/) account to access link) is below::

... Plaintiff’s Motion fails because he has not established beyond controversy that Golden Era’s business activities constitute “ordinary commercial activities.” Although Plaintiff has put forward evidence that Golden Era had the intent to maximize profits, Plaintiff did not allege that any other business enterprise competes with Golden Era in the marketplace. Moreover, there is no evidence that Golden Era competes with other entities in disseminating multimedia products about the CSI. ...

This does NOT mean that BFG lost his case. What it means is that his attempt to have a specific issue determined in his favor prior to trial was denied. As a result, as of now that issue and all other issues will be decided at a trial before a jury.

:thankyou:



If he was not an employee, then the FLSA doesn't apply and the church doesn't have to pay minimum wage or any other compensation. BFG has to show that he worked for some commercial business that the church was running.
OK. But the way I read it, CSI slipped by on that point because it is a monopoly, nobody competes with Golden Era Productions. So, a monopoly can evade the labor laws that an ordinary church-run business must obey? :wtf: I wonder how the jury will see this? :think:

[Megalomaniac]

The Court Order (https://ecf.cacd.uscourts.gov/doc1/03118820776) (need PACER (http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/) account to access link) is below::

... Moreover, there is no evidence that Golden Era competes with other entities in disseminating multimedia products about the CSI. ...

Hold on. Anonymous disseminates a lot of "multimedia products" about CSI, and for free. That's serious competition. :boxing:

[DCAnon]

Lol, guess scientologists can't read or word clear. :) Best to stay in their little cult cocoon and leave the real world to the wogs.

[degraded being]

if the cult were confident that they are going to win a case there is no point for them to argue the case here, beyond a statement that they are confident they would win it.
Arguing it here is to keep stirring the pot of "entheta" about the cult of scientology in the COS, and more likeley to let out something that is damaging to them.

So why do they post here? They are scared that they will not win it and trying to get in as much damage control as early as possible. It always looks defensive to me. Not like an attack as their nasty dead as a doornail boss L Ron Hubbard prescribed. And serious flaps need more serious inches of space to be maunufactured to try to keep up the stat which is supposed to stroke them into thinking that they are effectively controlling a battle which is being lost.

On the serious aspect...there are all sorts of distraction techniques, confusing techniques trolling around on this board at differnt times. When the COS is shit scared they have to stay ON the topic in their attempts to deal with it,
as in this case.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Please take it easy on masonj! All these posts are dangerously close to shattering his dreams.

Let me help you feel better, masonj. Close your eyes. Relax. Just pretend that i am your OSA handler and everything is going to be okay. Now just tell me your dream again....the fantasy one that we discussed, the one that makes you feel so, so, so good!

MASONJ: (closes eyes, begins to relax): "Well, BFG's case goes to trial and just when plaintiff's attorney is prepared to call the first witness, CoS attorneys jump up and object!"

OSA HANDLER: "Keep going, i like what i'm hearing..."

MASONJ: "And our freedom-fighting attorneys object on the grounds that all of BFG's witnesses, affadavits, declarations and evidence is prejudicial, inflamatory, low-toned, entheta, black pr and enemy line and should not be allowed in!"

OSA HANDLER: "That's my boy, you're on a roll, keep going!"

MASONJ: "And the judge looks at BFG and without blinking says 'Motion Sustained! Furthermore, I shall impose a gag order and Plaintives are admonished not to disclose any further entheta about the defendents, in or out of this courtroom!' "

OSA HANDLER: "Do you feel better now, masonj?"

MASONJ: (in deep trance, smiling, doesn't answer)

OSA HANDLER: (writes in case folder the words "Situation Handled!")

[Thrak]

Please take it easy on masonj! All these posts are dangerously close to shattering his dreams.

Let me help you feel better, masonj. Close your eyes. Relax. Just pretend that i am your OSA handler and everything is going to be okay. Now just tell me your dream again....the fantasy one that we discussed, the one that makes you feel so, so, so good!

MASONJ: (closes eyes, begins to relax): "Well, BFG's case goes to trial and just when plaintiff's attorney is prepared to call the first witness, CoS attorneys jump up and object!"

OSA HANDLER: "Keep going, i like what i'm hearing..."

MASONJ: "And our freedom-fighting attorneys object on the grounds that all of BFG's witnesses, affadavits, declarations and evidence is prejudicial, inflamatory, low-toned, entheta, black pr and enemy line and should not be allowed in!"

OSA HANDLER: "That's my boy, you're on a roll, keep going!"

MASONJ: "And the judge looks at BFG and without blinking says 'Motion Sustained! Furthermore, I shall impose a gag order and Plaintives are admonished not to disclose any further entheta about the defendents, in or out of this courtroom!' "

OSA HANDLER: "Do you feel better now, masonj?"

MASONJ: (in deep trance, smiling, doesn't answer)

OSA HANDLER: (writes in case folder the words "Situation Handled!")

And then our hero goes to sleep to realize it was only a nightmare, or wakes up and realizes it was only a dream.

[scooter]

Please take it easy on masonj! All these posts are dangerously close to shattering his dreams.

Let me help you feel better, masonj. Close your eyes. Relax. Just pretend that i am your OSA handler and everything is going to be okay. Now just tell me your dream again....the fantasy one that we discussed, the one that makes you feel so, so, so good!

MASONJ: (closes eyes, begins to relax): "Well, BFG's case goes to trial and just when plaintiff's attorney is prepared to call the first witness, CoS attorneys jump up and object!"

OSA HANDLER: "Keep going, i like what i'm hearing..."

MASONJ: "And our freedom-fighting attorneys object on the grounds that all of BFG's witnesses, affadavits, declarations and evidence is prejudicial, inflamatory, low-toned, entheta, black pr and enemy line and should not be allowed in!"

OSA HANDLER: "That's my boy, you're on a roll, keep going!"

MASONJ: "And the judge looks at BFG and without blinking says 'Motion Sustained! Furthermore, I shall impose a gag order and Plaintives are admonished not to disclose any further entheta about the defendents, in or out of this courtroom!' "

OSA HANDLER: "Do you feel better now, masonj?"

MASONJ: (in deep trance, smiling, doesn't answer)

OSA HANDLER: (writes in case folder the words "Situation Handled!")

:omg: :hysterical::yes:

[Iknowtoomuch]

Mason, how's Bonnie doing?

[programmer_guy]

"Ordinary commercial activities" just means that SCN was not competing with anyone in their productions.

This only means that Marc's attorney cannot use that particular argument.
This does not indicate a total failure in the case at this point.

[Telepathetic]

duplicate duplicate

[Telepathetic]

Masonj,

I don't usually answer posts or threads such as yours herein, I let them fade away into oblivion, but nonetheless, let me ask you a question:are you an employee of the cult?

I just did as Feral suggested and checked out your other posts. I tend to think you are here in a pitiful attempt to troll . Can I just say one thing...you're attempt at this and that of your masters is truly infantile.

Get a real job...I hear that production bolsters one's morale.

TP

[Cherished]

That's correct. But the court order shows that the court does not think that the production of religious materials that are sold by Golden Era and materials to disseminate Scientology for CSI is a commercial activity. No, what the court had to decide in this case was whether the Plaintiff's evidence in Marc's declarations proved the material facts "beyond controversy", and that the Plaintiff was entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

The court did not decide that Marc was not an employee, nor that Golden Era is not engaged in ordinary commercial activity, nor that the FLSA doesn't apply.

It simply decided that, on the evidence before it so far there were genuine issues of fact to be thrashed out. It couldn't find Marc's representation of the facts to be "beyond controversy".

What this does is give Marc and Barry a good idea of areas of evidence they need to sort out.

[Stephanie]

Summary Judgements are very rarely granted, its something a lawyer may get granted 2-3 times in a lifelong career.

The court needs the factual documents as proof of the allegations. So it will be going to trial.

Assuredly thereafter, the CSI attorneys will make sure it goes to an appeal. How they do this is at the end of the trial as it appears one side will win, the opposing attorney's start objecting in a fast and feverish type fashion, in the hopes of a 'technical outpoint'.

Appeals courts are not another trial, but are more like a C/S going over all of the transcripts of the case aka file folder, and if there are any mistakes, then the case is kicked down to the lower court aka trial court for a re-trial.

This way the CSI execs feel good that they got an appeal, and when they end up loosing the case and paying the penalty, they can complain to the other glib execs and parishioners, well we had an appeal and lost. It was a dumb judge!

[supafreak]

DM, the Robert Mugabe of cult leaders

Oh, does DM have syphilis-induced insanity as well? :lol:

[Ladybird]

Oh, does DM have syphilis-induced insanity as well? :lol:


I think Slappy the asthmatic dwarf has steroid induced insanity and steroid rage from his long term reliance on steroidal asthma treatments...but maybe he has syphilis induced insanity as well. Look at the palms of his hands, if there are red spots he needs to be tested.

Maybe steroid and STD insanity and alcoholism will be his defense for the crimes he has commited?

One must wonder why the minature ecclesiastic leader of the cult does not take advantage to cure his own shortcomings with one of the many benefits his cult is selling.

[Good twin]

I think Slappy the asthmatic dwarf has steroid induced insanity and steroid rage from his long term reliance on steroidal asthma treatments...but maybe he has syphilis induced insanity as well. Look at the palms of his hands, if there are red spots he needs to be tested.

Maybe steroid and STD insanity and alcoholism will be his defense for the crimes he has commited?

One must wonder why the minature ecclesiastic leader of the cult does not take advantage to cure his own shortcomings with one of the many benefits his cult is selling.

I volunteer to deliver his Asthma / Allergy Rundown. I am Flag trained. :yes:

Of course the setups might take quite a while. :whistling:

[Iknowtoomuch]

DAMMIT!! How's Bonnie Mason???

[Lohan2008]

I'm sure they wish they had a wide enough brush to just cover all of it up.

All too true :thumbsup:

[anon2487]

So am I right in thinking that this doesn't shut down any legal avenues at all for Marc, and merely means that the court didn't find any of his submissions so incontestable, that a summary judgement could be issued, avoiding a trial altogether? [Based on the above question, I'm sure you can tell that IANAL :) ]

That said, if the above is correct:

(i) does anyone know who produces Narconon/CCHR (or any of the other overtly secular CofS operation's) materials? Does it matter?

(ii) If (i) is relevant, then does the fact Scientology promotes itself as a non-religious organisation in the MAJORITY of countries, have any bearing on whether Golden Era is really competing with other businesses, (given that Golden Era doesn't own the copyrights on most of the stuff it produces)?

(iii) Can the supposed independence of the Orgs around the world, be used against them in this case? Particularly given the large variety of legal structures (from corporations, to charitable trusts, to philosophical associations, etc.) that it must mean Golden Era is supplying.

As I said, I'm really pulling this stuff out of my arse...I've got NO idea what I'm talking about at all...but thought I might as well post it, in case it sparks an idea for anyone that does have a proper grasp of the situation.

[programmer_guy]

That's correct. The court case will go on.
He just didn't get a summary judgment... which is not a big deal.

[Iknowtoomuch]

I really wonder if this is going to be another "Portland Cusade". :whistling:

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I really wonder if this is going to be another "Portland Cusade". :whistling:

Do you think there are enough world-wide members left to achieve such a "crusade"? Although, thinking about it now, we were only getting that news 'internally', so it was probably being reported as a false upstat.

[Iknowtoomuch]

Do you think there are enough world-wide members left to achieve such a "crusade"? Although, thinking about it now, we were only getting that news 'internally', so it was probably being reported as a false upstat.



Good question. But I'd imagine DM would just hire people to look like Scientologists. :yes:

[Stephanie]

i think the cos has moved on from the little people and are cultivating the celebs, and send TC out to smooth things over with his shimmer.
:dieslaughing:

[TalleyWhacker]

I'm sure you know that it's going before a jury.

What do you think will happen to the human trafficking case when they hear the following;

That the cult illegally employs minors, enforces abortions at the rate of nearly 100 per year, has it's own gulag, keeps it's staff under guard behind razor wire and 'off loads' them when they become ill or infirmed, makes them work over 100 hours per week and if they leave gets them to sign one sided waivers that they will never mention any of the crimes that were committed against them as well as excommunicating them from their loved ones through the mechanism of SP declares. Then serves them with an enormous bill for the services they received?

For all that they get fed beans and rice and paid enough to buy the shampoo, razors and vitamins they need.

Do you really think BFG will lose when it gets to that point?....Or are you just trolling again?

This is the death knell for the abuse that the cult has perpetrated, soon, when all this comes out it will be the subject of endless documentaries and current affairs spots. Then surely main stream media will prick up their ears and follow every arrest and charge leveled at the church internationally with that they will feed the general public's hunger for news of bizarre, ritualized abuse.

The more the spotlight is shone on the cults abuses the more the public and official outrage will demand more action until it eats the Sea Org up, then it will be a sad joke like the Moonies and Jonestown.

So, take that back to your masters MasonJ and have them tell you it's all some ones deluded reality springing from their evil purposes or just another NCG failed case ranting, eh?.

Nice post, Feral.:thumbsup:

[RolandRB]

Nice post, Feral.:thumbsup:

Another thing is that when it is a court case then all what goes on will be aired to the loyal Scientologist public and they may begin to question the party line about Anonymous etc.. Where you have people leaving now then this will increase perhaps a hundred fold as people finally wake up. If the court case goes well and its devleopments are made public then I see the whole cult breaking up in a short time.

[Blownforgood]

The case is still moving forward as planned. They submitted a Summary judgement and we submitted one. They both got disapproved. Onto next step. If the case has to go to trial, so be it.

I do have a small advantage if we go to trial. First of all, they have broken Federal and State laws and I can prove it. Also, do you know how many cases CSI has won as a defendant in cases that have gone in front of a jury? NONE. It has never happened. They lose every time. Might be why they settle most of their cases before it gets that far. They have already spent 3 million dollars fighting this case so far. They could have paid me what they owed me and they would have not spent that much.

They do have a limit and and an exact point that they will either pull the plug on this or go down kicking and screaming. I am willing to watch them do either.

I spent over 15 years studying the Scientology organization. They are just getting started on studying me.

Until next time...
BFG

[scooter]

The case is still moving forward as planned. They submitted a Summary judgement and we submitted one. They both got disapproved. Onto next step. If the case has to go to trial, so be it.

I do have a small advantage if we go to trial. First of all, they have broken Federal and State laws and I can prove it. Also, do you know how many cases CSI has won as a defendant in cases that have gone in front of a jury? NONE. It has never happened. They lose every time. Might be why they settle most of their cases before it gets that far. They have already spent 3 million dollars fighting this case so far. They could have paid me what they owed me and they would have not spent that much.

They do have a limit and and an exact point that they will either pull the plug on this or go down kicking and screaming. I am willing to watch them do either.

I spent over 15 years studying the Scientology organization. They are just getting started on studying me.

Until next time...
BFG

Thanks Marc - I'm cheering from the sidelines for you.:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader::clap: :clap: :clap:

Anything that we can do from here to help at all?

[DCAnon]

The case is still moving forward as planned. They submitted a Summary judgement and we submitted one. They both got disapproved. Onto next step. If the case has to go to trial, so be it.

I do have a small advantage if we go to trial. First of all, they have broken Federal and State laws and I can prove it. Also, do you know how many cases CSI has won as a defendant in cases that have gone in front of a jury? NONE. It has never happened. They lose every time. Might be why they settle most of their cases before it gets that far. They have already spent 3 million dollars fighting this case so far. They could have paid me what they owed me and they would have not spent that much.

They do have a limit and and an exact point that they will either pull the plug on this or go down kicking and screaming. I am willing to watch them do either.

I spent over 15 years studying the Scientology organization. They are just getting started on studying me.

Until next time...
BFG

Oh man, I lol'd hard. XD

Seriously, if you guys make it to this coast, lemme know and we'll throw YOU a party.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

The case is still moving forward as planned. They submitted a Summary judgement and we submitted one. They both got disapproved. Onto next step. If the case has to go to trial, so be it.

I do have a small advantage if we go to trial. First of all, they have broken Federal and State laws and I can prove it. Also, do you know how many cases CSI has won as a defendant in cases that have gone in front of a jury? NONE. It has never happened. They lose every time. Might be why they settle most of their cases before it gets that far. They have already spent 3 million dollars fighting this case so far. They could have paid me what they owed me and they would have not spent that much.

They do have a limit and and an exact point that they will either pull the plug on this or go down kicking and screaming. I am willing to watch them do either.

I spent over 15 years studying the Scientology organization. They are just getting started on studying me.

Until next time...
BFG

Thanks for setting the record straight after all the speculation.

Question is: if CSI does cave-in and offer to settle, will you accept it or are you after a definitive legal victory?

[KnightVision]

Nice post Feral. At the end of the day, what MasonJ has to say has no bearing upon the suit filed. That MJ is trying so desperately to downplay the situation with 'authoritarian' sounding 'failure determinations' of what is actually happening with the case... clearly marks his agenda as one in bed with the COS. An amusement at best.


I'm sure you know that it's going before a jury.

What do you think will happen to the human trafficking case when they hear the following;

That the cult illegally employs minors, enforces abortions at the rate of nearly 100 per year, has it's own gulag, keeps it's staff under guard behind razor wire and 'off loads' them when they become ill or infirmed, makes them work over 100 hours per week and if they leave gets them to sign one sided waivers that they will never mention any of the crimes that were committed against them as well as excommunicating them from their loved ones through the mechanism of SP declares. Then serves them with an enormous bill for the services they received?

For all that they get fed beans and rice and paid enough to buy the shampoo, razors and vitamins they need.

Do you really think BFG will lose when it gets to that point?....Or are you just trolling again?

This is the death knell for the abuse that the cult has perpetrated, soon, when all this comes out it will be the subject of endless documentaries and current affairs spots. Then surely main stream media will prick up their ears and follow every arrest and charge leveled at the church internationally with that they will feed the general public's hunger for news of bizarre, ritualized abuse.

The more the spotlight is shone on the cults abuses the more the public and official outrage will demand more action until it eats the Sea Org up, then it will be a sad joke like the Moonies and Jonestown.

So, take that back to your masters MasonJ and have them tell you it's all some ones deluded reality springing from their evil purposes or just another NCG failed case ranting, eh?.

[xseaorguk]

It would be a pity if BFG did accept a payment from the church in order to keep quiet and end the case, but then again this is why past cases have not come out into the open so much.
Look at the Wollersheim case where he got millions, but few people seem to know about it.
I often wonder about the motives of such court cases, but who would say know 'no' to a few million?

Has a collective case ever been filed, where a lot of Exes get together with their evidence?

[RolandRB]

It would be a pity if BFG did accept a payment from the church in order to keep quiet and end the case, but then again this is why past cases have not come out into the open so much.
Look at the Wollersheim case where he got millions, but few people seem to know about it.
I often wonder about the motives of such court cases, but who would say know 'no' to a few million?

Has a collective case ever been filed, where a lot of Exes get together with their evidence?

It does not mater if BFG gets paid off. He will get paid the money owed to him for working there all these years. It would make sense to accept that money if it were offered plus money to cover costs to settle the money. The point is, if he gets his money then there will be thousands of ex-Sea Org staff eligible to get money as well. One case, whether won in court or settled out of court, will open the floodgates to many millions of dollars in restitution.

[Telepathetic]

It does not mater if BFG gets paid off. He will get paid the money owed to him for working there all these years. It would make sense to accept that money if it were offered plus money to cover costs to settle the money. The point is, if he gets his money then there will be thousands of ex-Sea Org staff eligible to get money as well. One case, whether won in court or settled out of court, will open the floodgates to many millions of dollars in restitution.

DITTO!

TP

[Lulu Belle]

It would be a pity if BFG did accept a payment from the church in order to keep quiet and end the case, but then again this is why past cases have not come out into the open so much.

Look at the Wollersheim case where he got millions, but few people seem to know about it.

Wollersheim got millions because he eventually won his case, not because he settled. COS took it as high as they could and they lost.

Gotta give the guy credit. He managed to do what no one else had done.

[Ladybird]

Wollersheim got millions because he eventually won his case, not because he settled. COS took it as high as they could and they lost.

Gotta give the guy credit. He managed to do what no one else had done.

I agree Lulu, Wollersheim hung in there for over 20 years while scientology used the legal system, fair game and even infiltrated his life and business with undercover OSA ops like Kim Baker (who BTW has posted here on this board. I am posting this link to show how sweet and authentic she acted to weasle her way on to Wollys FACTNet board. http://cgi.amazing.com/scientology/kim-baker.html ) She was one of many OSA ops who tried try to ruin him and shudder him into silence. Wolly started FactNet even before he won his case, and he has done so much to help expose all cults, not just scientology. I don't think Lawrence Wollersheim gets nearly the credit he deserves.

Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network (FACTNet)
Motto: We are to destructive cults, fundamentalism, mind control, and mental coercion/torture what Amnesty International is to physical torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FACTnet

[Zinjifar]

Wollersheim got millions because he eventually won his case, not because he settled. COS took it as high as they could and they lost.

Gotta give the guy credit. He managed to do what no one else had done.

However, what had happened was that the 'Church' *dropped* its further appeals once it became obvious that CST was going to be dragged into court. They cut their losses, rather than allow any more of the Scientology Corporate Shell Game to be disclosed.

They could have kept it going for years more, but, at a cost of too much transparency. And, that's what's needed now; more transparency; enough to blow the lid off.

Zinj

[RolandRB]

However, what had happened was that the 'Church' *dropped* its further appeals once it became obvious that CST was going to be dragged into court. They cut their losses, rather than allow any more of the Scientology Corporate Shell Game to be disclosed.

They could have kept it going for years more, but, at a cost of too much transparency. And, that's what's needed now; more transparency; enough to blow the lid off.

Zinj

I'm assuming this will be settled out of court and BFG will win. I'm also guessing that the settlement will be for a generous amount more than contested and will involve a gag order with BFG having to claim he lost the case as part of the agreement. That way he gets what he wants and more and it will benefit the Co$ by putting off all other potential claimants as they will assume they will also lose their cases.

[Wisened One]

It does not mater if BFG gets paid off. He will get paid the money owed to him for working there all these years. It would make sense to accept that money if it were offered plus money to cover costs to settle the money. The point is, if he gets his money then there will be thousands of ex-Sea Org staff eligible to get money as well. One case, whether won in court or settled out of court, will open the floodgates to many millions of dollars in restitution.

:thumbsup:

[Dulloldfart]

I'm assuming this will be settled out of court and BFG will win. I'm also guessing that the settlement will be for a generous amount more than contested and will involve a gag order with BFG having to claim he lost the case as part of the agreement. That way he gets what he wants and more and it will benefit the Co$ by putting off all other potential claimants as they will assume they will also lose their cases.

Are you projecting your own lack of integrity into others, or something?

Sometimes I don't have a clue what you are up to. But I do know that taking your posts at face value each time would be a mistake.

Paul

[Zinjifar]

I do see some sense in Roland's 2nd point; A BFG win will inevitably result in hundreds or thousands of further lawsuits, so, the 'Church' doesn't really *care* whether it's spending more than simply paying would cost to drag this out.

Zinj

[Dulloldfart]

Apart from the fact I don't believe for a moment BFG would go for it, it's completely impractical. Either the case goes through to judgment, or it is settled (or re-trial etc.). If it goes to judgment, it's a matter of public record. If it is settled, it is neither "won" nor "lost", except in terms of spin put on it. Surely?

Paul

[Zinjifar]

Apart from the fact I don't believe for a moment BFG would go for it, it's completely impractical. Either the case goes through to judgment, or it is settled (or re-trial etc.). If it goes to judgment, it's a matter of public record. If it is settled, it is neither "won" nor "lost", except in terms of spin put on it. Surely?

Paul

US Civil law is pretty much based on 'money is everything', not so much about 'winning', which means both parties get to claim a 'win'. But, if it goes to judgment it does offer a precedent, which may or may not make later suits simpler.

However, it's exactly because of the 'money is everything' practice that courts put a *lot* of pressure on people to settle, and, that includes settlements that include using 'gag orders'. Civil Courts *hate* people who are suing to 'make a point'.

Zinj

[Lohan2008]

Anyway, the main thing is that BFG court case is still going forward and ESMB will be cheering him on :cheerleader:

[RolandRB]

US Civil law is pretty much based on 'money is everything', not so much about 'winning', which means both parties get to claim a 'win'. But, if it goes to judgment it does offer a precedent, which may or may not make later suits simpler.

However, it's exactly because of the 'money is everything' practice that courts put a *lot* of pressure on people to settle, and, that includes settlements that include using 'gag orders'. Civil Courts *hate* people who are suing to 'make a point'.

Zinj

Exactly! I believe the Denis Erlich settlement was one of these forced on him by the court to end the case. Therefore, it will be the same for BFG. It makes sense for the Co$ to have all those who try to sue it "lose", even if they have to pay well over the asking price to achieve this. The court's attitude will be "you are after money - they are offering money - plus even more - so sign their agreement and stop bothering us".

[RolandRB]

Are you projecting your own lack of integrity into others, or something?

Sometimes I don't have a clue what you are up to. But I do know that taking your posts at face value each time would be a mistake.

Paul

Think of the Denis Erlich settlement and how that might have come about. Then when BFG "loses" and yet, somehow, seems better off financially afterwards, then think about what I predicted. And for other ex-Sea Org members out there, who might consider suing and will read of BFG's "loss", then you too can sue the Co$ and lose and get a stack of money to set you up for the rest of your life. Think of it as losing the Lottery.

[Cherished]

with BFG having to claim he lost the case as part of the agreement. That is highly unlikely. If he settles it is usual that the defendant agrees to judgment being entered against him/it with no admission as to liability. The plaintiff does not have to "lose" on the merits of the claim, nor does the defendant.

You should take any CoS assertions about a court case being "won" or "lost" as being unreliable. The CoS has won very, very few court cases and has had some spectacular losses.


Wollersheim got millions because he eventually won his case, not because he settled. COS took it as high as they could and they lost.

Gotta give the guy credit. He managed to do what no one else had done.I fully agree. A 22-year legal battle is more than a marathon. It's an obscenity. If any scientologist or ex has never read the 1989 judgment in the Wollersheim case, I encourage you to do so.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wollersheim_v._Church_of_Scientology


The point is, if he gets his money then there will be thousands of ex-Sea Org staff eligible to get money as well. One case, whether won in court or settled out of court, will open the floodgates to many millions of dollars in restitution.But that means we'll have to work very hard to make sure that staff and former staff KNOW that they have this potential claim. As was said above, how many people know about the defeat the church suffered in the Wollersheim matter (actually, many defeats along the way). Or any of the legal defeats for that matter?

http://wiki.whyweprotest.net/List_of_lawsuits_lost_by_Scientology (incomplete) (http://wiki.whyweprotest.net/List_of_lawsuits_lost_by_Scientology)

[Royal Prince Xenu]

It does not mater if BFG gets paid off. He will get paid the money owed to him for working there all these years. It would make sense to accept that money if it were offered plus money to cover costs to settle the money. The point is, if he gets his money then there will be thousands of ex-Sea Org staff eligible to get money as well. One case, whether won in court or settled out of court, will open the floodgates to many millions of dollars in restitution.

Sorry, that's where I disagree. If he takes the money and signs the gag agreement, there is no floodgate to open, the next person has to start from scratch.

If he sticks it out to get a judgement against CSI, then the PRECEDENT has been established, and it will be much easier for the next person to make a similar claim relying on this judgement rather than having to produce the same evidence all over again.

That is why I asked the question in the first place.