RPF

[Krysti]

I've read a lot of experiences of people who were sent to the RPF.

What I'm wondering though is what did people not in the RPF think about it?

Did you feel sorry for the people? Did you think they must be evil? Did you think 'What kind of an organization am I a part of that could do that to their own people?".

I'm just wondering why that wasn't enough to make people want out of the CofS.

The curious one,

Krysti

[Little Bear Victor]

I've read a lot of experiences of people who were sent to the RPF.

What I'm wondering though is what did people not in the RPF think about it?

Did you feel sorry for the people? Did you think they must be evil? Did you think 'What kind of an organization am I a part of that could do that to their own people?".

I'm just wondering why that wasn't enough to make people want out of the CofS.

The curious one,

Krysti

This may not be a very in-depth analysis, but when in the SO, you certainly consider the RPF the "outcasts" who are there as their last hope in making it in the SO. What I've seen, it is generally considered that the people who end up there deserved it by their own actions (like it is with everything that goes wrong with a person in Scientology: "You only have yourself to blame").

It is also used as a deterrent to continuing a certain behavior pattern (such as criticism) as in "that'll get you RPF'd." For DM, the same threat is a way to get more production squeezed out from SO members who already think they're doing everything possible. Most RPF assignments on the Int base are done by DM. People "on his side" are quick to deny it but it nevertheless is true.

It may deter people from joining the SO. I don't think it would get people to leave Scientology -- except if you happen to read about it on ARS, which gives you a pretty unflattering picture of the worst practices in Scn.

V

[Voltaire's Child]

I've read a lot of experiences of people who were sent to the RPF.

What I'm wondering though is what did people not in the RPF think about it?

Did you feel sorry for the people? Did you think they must be evil? Did you think 'What kind of an organization am I a part of that could do that to their own people?".

I'm just wondering why that wasn't enough to make people want out of the CofS.

The curious one,

Krysti

I didn't hear about it til I got on the internet. It wasn't discussed much in CofS.

The only mention I'd heard was about punishment detail and that was ONCE.

What truly goes on in the RPF isn't fully disclosed to members unless they are in the process of undergoing it or work there.

So it did not seem like a big deal until I read numerous accounts of what really occurred.

What I'm trying to say, Krysti, is that there's a big difference between someone knowing the full extent of the thing and still turning a blind eye and someone who doesn't say anything about it because they've heard little or nothing about it.

[Krysti]

Got it! :yes:

Thanks for the replies.

[Flyonthewall]

I definitely thought that those on the RPF screwed up on post and generally I'd have read the posting that told of their "screwups". I was hoping that they'd get better and graduate and become a productive SO member. I definitely wouldn't try and ignore them and would say hello, good morning or whatever when in passing. Common courtesies. Others reacted differently. The only person who I didn't treat right as I recall, was Michael Silverman when he got sent to the RPF, I always thought he was arrogant in my dealings with him he was never a pleasant person to me.

While I was doing Reno's for the SO on their Hollywood Guarantee Building I instituted a pizza lunch every week in gratitude for their help.

CB

[Zinjifar]

I definitely thought that those on the RPF screwed up on post and generally I'd have read the posting that told of their "screwups". I was hoping that they'd get better and graduate and become a productive SO member. I definitely wouldn't try and ignore them and would say hello, good morning or whatever when in passing. Common courtesies. Others reacted differently. The only person who I didn't treat right as I recall, was Michael Silverman when he got sent to the RPF, I always thought he was arrogant in my dealings with him he was never a pleasant person to me.

While I was doing Reno's for the SO on their Hollywood Guarantee Building I instituted a pizza lunch every week in gratitude for their help.

CB

No doubt Chuck Beatty's 8 years on the RPF for wanting to leave would count as a 'screw up' ;)

Zinj

[Flyonthewall]

I just want to clarify that I put "screwups" in quotes for a reason and I was trying to give a viewpoint from the eyes of one ex so member of how I remember looking and feeling about RPFers while being in the SO.

I personally now look at RPFers as a slave workforce that needs government intervention.

CB

[Zinjifar]

I just want to clarify that I put "screwups" in quotes for a reason and I was trying to give a viewpoint from the eyes of one ex so member of how I remember looking and feeling about RPFers while being in the SO.

I personally now look at RPFers as a slave workforce that needs government intervention.

CB

Didn't mean to be (too) harsh CB :)

What I see as the problem is the 100% Standard Scientology Scripture of 'responsibility for your own condition'.

Whether it's an asteroid falling on your head or a bug-shit-crazy Cult locking you away.. you *must* have 'pulled it in'.

Zinj

[Div6]

I just want to clarify that I put "screwups" in quotes for a reason and I was trying to give a viewpoint from the eyes of one ex so member of how I remember looking and feeling about RPFers while being in the SO.

I personally now look at RPFers as a slave workforce that needs government intervention.

CB


I have to suppress a guffaw on your last statement....which government?
I can't think of a single one that is not actively suppressing or making slaves out of their own populace....

But I do agree that the RPF is an abomination, and should be abolished, or at least made humane. Along with the Chinese dissident camps, the russian gulags, and the US underclass. One aspect of the 4th dynamic dramatization IS making others wrong for any reason whatsoever....

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, my government, imperfect though it is (there are no perfect governments, there are no utopias. governments are made up of people.) has repeatedly intervened in cult affairs and in other venues such as slave trafficking.

Yes, they often do so ham handedly. They often mess up. They do pick their battles. But they -and a number of other governments- do quite a bit regardless.

So it's not an entirely unreasonable hope that any even quasi semi sometimes reasonable Western government - and maybe some Eastern ones- would intervene someday...The SO would be a great candidate for that.

[Snuffy]

As embarrassing as it is to admit, I was 8 years in Scientology, and on staff in a Class V org for a lot of that, and did not know what the RPF was until I went on to the internet a few months ago and started looking. I was reading Vaughn Young's stuff where he mentions going to the RPF and I had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think my situation was atypical of many Scientologists, because, as you say Krysti, it would be enough to cause most people to leave, so of course you just don't hear about it.

I've recently seen Mike Rynder asked about the RPF and he makes out that people had no right to complain because they knew what they were getting into when they joined. I think his reasoning is that no one would feel sorry for a monk leaving a monastery and complaining about sleeping on straw and having to wake up in the middle of the night to say prayers, etc. I don't know, I had SO recruitment officers talk to me on several occasions and never once did they mention the RPF, whereas I can't imagine someone going into a monastery not having a clue about the lifestyle. Typical Scientologist sophistry.

[mate]

When I arrived in PAC on my way into the Sea Org in the early '80s, I was briefly at the CMO PAC. I was as I found out later, to be a "coin" to get Barbara Tompkins out of Flag. One of the cycles I ddid, was to take NOTs folders that had been C/Sed to Rick Azneran in the PAC RPF in the basement of the main building. I couldn't believe the conditions in which they were working, and decided at that point that I would never accept being in the RPF.

When I eventually became a Flag C/S, one day I walked into Steve Stevens in the Flag RPF. Steve was CO Flag Tours Org in Sydney. One this and a couple of other occasions, I went into the canteen to buy him some treats. Of course, it was right off policy, but then I was a bit of a loose cannon. I could never accept that RPFers were degraded beings, to me they were the victims of the insane application of insane ethics policies.

When I arrived at Gold to become QEI I walked into, Jesse Prince, Paul Crabtree and Spike Bush, and found them in the Int RPF. We had a brief chat and they quickly took leave because of their concern for me. They seemed happy enough but I could sense they wanted out of it. In the short time I was there, it became rather obvious that RPF assignments were somewhat arbitrary and there was no real stigma with being in the Int RPF.

Later, when I was a C/S in the Universe Corps, I overheard a discussion about the possibility of my going to the RPF, I walked. Sure there were other factors leading up to it, but that precipitated it.

Regards, David.

[Alan]

Later, when I was a C/S in the Universe Corps, I overheard a discussion about the possibility of my going to the RPF, I walked. Sure there were other factors leading up to it, but that precipitated it.

Regards, David.



Well done David!!! :hifive: :dancer: :woohoo:

[mate]

Thank you Alan, very much appreciated. :)

Regards, David.

[pomfritz]

Mate,

What was Paul Crabtree doing at Int? Was he married to Debbie still? Do you know what became of them? I knew Debbie from FSO in the 80's, she had a son, Joe I beleive was his name.

[Lulu Belle]

Mate,

What was Paul Crabtree doing at Int? Was he married to Debbie still? Do you know what became of them? I knew Debbie from FSO in the 80's, she had a son, Joe I beleive was his name.


I have heard that he is working construction. I know he's off staff, but last I heard he was still in good standing.

[Bea Kiddo]

I wish I had done the same as you, Mate. The RPF really messes with your head and sanity. I dont know when or how to really recover, except over time.:(

[Kookaburra]

As embarrassing as it is to admit, I was 8 years in Scientology, and on staff in a Class V org for a lot of that, and did not know what the RPF was until I went on to the internet a few months ago and started looking. I was reading Vaughn Young's stuff where he mentions going to the RPF and I had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think my situation was atypical of many Scientologists, because, as you say Krysti, it would be enough to cause most people to leave, so of course you just don't hear about it.


The reason you don't hear about it is that the SO is not proud of it. They KNOW it is grossly out PR and people will think badly of them. That is why they hide the RPF. They work in places like level 2 of the basement, in buildings otherwise unoccupied, in courtyards surrounded by high cement walls where they can't talk to anyone and no-one can see or talk to them.




I've recently seen Mike Rynder asked about the RPF and he makes out that people had no right to complain because they knew what they were getting into when they joined. I think his reasoning is that no one would feel sorry for a monk leaving a monastery and complaining about sleeping on straw and having to wake up in the middle of the night to say prayers, etc. I don't know, I had SO recruitment officers talk to me on several occasions and never once did they mention the RPF, whereas I can't imagine someone going into a monastery not having a clue about the lifestyle. Typical Scientologist sophistry.

Funnily enough, no recruiter ever used the RPF as a recruitment tool on me either. :confused2:

They did point out, however, that there was regular libs so plenty of time to spend with friends and do the things I wanted to do. Oh yeah, and I'd get all the way up the bridge, too! :hmmph:

[Alan]

I wish I had done the same as you, Mate. The RPF really messes with your head and sanity. I dont know when or how to really recover, except over time.:(



Dear Bea, and others that did the RPF,

There is an earlier time when there were several people in Scio and on the SHSBC that were survivors from the World War II Concentration Camps in Germany and Poland.

Over the years I have processed 28 people who had been in German Concentration Camps. Most of these people I processed during my years at Saint Hill.

How correction lists came into being was from my processing of those people.

The first correction list I originated was what is now known as L4BR. The reason for this is that none of the Concentration Camp survivors could run Goals processing or find any correct items.

I observed that these people were doing fine in life - but that as soon as they started Goals processing or item finding they crashed and became very ill or unconscious.

This was a fairly common occurrence for most people on the GPM section of the SHSBC.

Back then of course my fellow guinea pig (researchers) pioneers, I or LRH had no idea of the disastrous effects that wrong locations, wrong games, and wrong goals, wrong items, wrong subjects, out lists or self listing would or could do to a person.

It was Gordon Bell who cracked open the door to this area ? as it was he that discovered what by-passed charge was and how it came about.

As I had finished the theory and practical sections of the SHSBC I had plenty of spare time so I offered to process these ?collapsed cases.?

As the pc was okay before they started the session on GPMs ? what occurred that caused the ?collapsed case? must have been during the session.

Obviously something had been done wrong. As there were only two basic actions on GPM finding ? which were Finding the pc?s Goal or finding Reliable Items.

It pretty obvious it was either a wrong Goal or a wrong Item.

Often the pc was brought to me in a comatose state. (Usually in a wheelbarrow.)

I would lay them on the floor ? put the cans in their hands ? (even in their comatose state they had the ability to hold the cans) ? I would then state: ?In your last session was there a wrong item given to you?? or ?In your last session was there a wrong goal given to you?? or ?In your last session was there a right item missed?? or ?In your last session was there a right goal missed??

Miraculously when the right indication was stated ? the pc would come alive ? sit up ? get in the chair and we would clean up what ever needed cleaning up.

What I did not realize back then was that Goals processing was triggering previous failed or suppressed Goals or item finding was triggering previous out lists and wrong items. But what was even worse that these times of failed or suppressed Goals previous out lists and wrong items stemmed from a time the person was in a weak valence.

Obviously when the Gestapo came for the client ? the client went into overwhelm and became a weak identity. Consequently most of the rest of their life is positioned from being in a weak identity that then positions you in the wrong locations, wrong games, and wrong goals, wrong items, wrong subjects, out lists or self listing would be occurring.

Being put in the RPF does exactly the same thing.

Correction Lists ushered in the Locate and Indicate Tech.

Being more of yourself, in the right place at the right time, connected to the right people, living your dreams, doing what you loved to do was indicative of having correct locations, correct games, and correct goals, correct items, correct subjects, correct lists and correct answers to self listing questions.

Processing will not work in the presence of out lists and wrong items.

Thus it is best to stay away from processing.

The best thing is correct all the incorrect lists, data, goals, items, subjects, etc. and of course find the right Dreams and Goals for you!

And possibly the most important datum:

The right item for you is not necessarily the right item for another!:happydance:

Alan

[Bea Kiddo]

Thank you. That info is interesting.

Did you ever do NOTs or read those materials? curious...


And about the people (pc's) being unconcious - in all my years on tech lines, I rarely saw this. Why would that be? the tech is better, or worse? They are not getting dug in on? Drugs inhibiting deep counselling? Only once did I see a pc fully passed out, unable to be recovered without a date/locate of an incident.

Though I'd like to see similarities with concentration camps and RPF, I have to be honest and say that the camps deserve alot more auditing than those harmed by the RPF. I feel the latter is easier to recover from. in that sense, I guess it wasn't so bad. But some pretty crazy sh*t happens there. I was in the SO for 16 - 17 years. I spent about 5 on RPF, not counting the childrens RPF, which is one more year.:nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

[Div6]

<Snip much interesting data>

Processing will not work in the presence of out lists and wrong items.

Thus it is best to stay away from processing.

The best thing is correct all the incorrect lists, data, goals, items, subjects, etc. and of course find the right Dreams and Goals for you!

And possibly the most important datum:

The right item for you is not necessarily the right item for another!:happydance:

Alan

It occurred to me the other day that the possibility exists that the CC and OT II implant platens as "researched" by LRH contain wrong items and wrong goals. They are "close enough" to bleed charge off, but not exact enough to give "total As-is-ness". And so we have "OT's" still dramatizing heavily the total inval of Implant GPM's. This is the "Implantology" aspect that Veda is so keen on. And of course there are those "db's" that have adopted the "shock and awe" modus operandi as survival across all dynamics, seeking overwhelm from food, sex, groups, govts. etc. Keying out of it is one thing. Erasing it is another....

[Terril park]

Thank you. That info is interesting.

Did you ever do NOTs or read those materials? curious...


And about the people (pc's) being unconcious - in all my years on tech lines, I rarely saw this. Why would that be? the tech is better, or worse? They are not getting dug in on? Drugs inhibiting deep counselling? Only once did I see a pc fully passed out, unable to be recovered without a date/locate of an incident.

Though I'd like to see similarities with concentration camps and RPF, I have to be honest and say that the camps deserve alot more auditing than those harmed by the RPF. I feel the latter is easier to recover from. in that sense, I guess it wasn't so bad. But some pretty crazy sh*t happens there. I was in the SO for 16 - 17 years. I spent about 5 on RPF, not counting the childrens RPF, which is one more year.:nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

I don't believe anyone has posted re childrens RPF. Or if so I missed it.

Can you say more?

[Bea Kiddo]

I don't believe anyone has posted re childrens RPF. Or if so I missed it.

Can you say more?

Its in my story. First or second page. Was in 88.

[Alan]

Thank you. That info is interesting.

Did you ever do NOTs or read those materials? curious...



Yes to both.

Alex Sibirsky was my NOTs auditor.




And about the people (pc's) being unconcious - in all my years on tech lines, I rarely saw this. Why would that be? the tech is better, or worse? They are not getting dug in on? Drugs inhibiting deep counselling? Only once did I see a pc fully passed out, unable to be recovered without a date/locate of an incident.



The auditing has gotten shallower and shallower over the years.

Back in the beginning up to 1964 - there was no confidentiality - thus no inhibited tech.

LRH deliberately dumbed the Tech down.




Though I'd like to see similarities with concentration camps and RPF, I have to be honest and say that the camps deserve a lot more auditing than those harmed by the RPF. I feel the latter is easier to recover from. in that sense, I guess it wasn't so bad. But some pretty crazy sh*t happens there. I was in the SO for 16 - 17 years. I spent about 5 on RPF, not counting the childrens RPF, which is one more year.:nervous: :nervous: :nervous:



I have audited both - there is an eerie simlarity to camp survivors and the RPF survivors.

Strangely they each made it a game.

The common denominators were the "forever trapped" and the "loss of self" feelings.

The lack of sleep.

Bad food.

The mental and physical abuse.

Being treated like a slave.

No rights.

And the fear of the Guards or EO's.

I would say the greatest and most unconfrontable part for Concentration Camp survivors was the "terror of being taken over and never being free." That also seemed to be fairly common with people stuck in the RPF.:omg:

Alan

[mate]

....

How correction lists came into being was from my processing of those people.

The first correction list I originated was what is now known as L4BR. The reason for this is that none of the Concentration Camp survivors could run Goals processing or find any correct items.

I observed that these people were doing fine in life - but that as soon as they started Goals processing or item finding they crashed and became very ill or unconscious.

This was a fairly common occurrence for most people on the GPM section of the SHSBC.

Back then of course my fellow guinea pig (researchers) pioneers, I or LRH had no idea of the disastrous effects that wrong locations, wrong games, and wrong goals, wrong items, wrong subjects, out lists or self listing would or could do to a person.

It was Gordon Bell who cracked open the door to this area – as it was he that discovered what by-passed charge was and how it came about.

...

Alan

Thank you Alan, for this illuminating piece of information. I had often wondered where Hubbard got the idea of Listing from. It seemed to come right out of the blue.

The concept of out lists when I first met it, reminded me of that expression that was commonly used in Australian pubs. When you bumped someone and caused him to spill some of his beer, he would respond with,

"What are you? [a listing question] Ya mug! [wrong item indicated]" This would lead to a reaction like, "What ya mean, I'm a mug?":angry:

Regards, David.

[Alan]

The concept of out lists when I first met it, reminded me of that expression that was commonly used in Australian pubs. When you bumped someone and caused him to spill some of his beer, he would respond with,

"What are you? [a listing question] Ya mug! [wrong item indicated]" This would lead to a reaction like, "What ya mean, I'm a mug?":angry:

Regards, David.



:roflmao: :roflmao:

That indicates! :happydance:

Been in a few of those Ozzie pub brawls!

Alan

[haiqu]

Being more of yourself, in the right place at the right time, connected to the right people, living your dreams, doing what you loved to do was indicative of having correct locations, correct games, and correct goals, correct items, correct subjects, correct lists and correct answers to self listing questions.

Processing will not work in the presence of out lists and wrong items.

Thus it is best to stay away from processing.

The best thing is correct all the incorrect lists, data, goals, items, subjects, etc. and of course find the right Dreams and Goals for you!

And possibly the most important datum:

The right item for you is not necessarily the right item for another!:happydance:

Alan

Alan,

It's not often these days that I recognise new data and immediately see truth in it. This has been one of those occasions, and this data is important to me for several reasons.

The RPF and concentration camps are not the only ways one could be overwhelmed to such a degree that they enter a weak valence. And since one of my purposes is to help others, any viewpoint which allows me to see a way to do that is valuable. Additionally, I intend eventually to attempt running my actual GPMs, and knowing this can happen is adequate forewarning of the possible liability of that action.

On reading this message I recognised something in myself due to past situations, which has been difficult to unravel. There has been much progress in the area, but today another piece of the puzzle was provided.

Thank you.

haiqu

[Tanstaafl]

It occurred to me the other day that the possibility exists that the CC and OT II implant platens as "researched" by LRH contain wrong items and wrong goals. They are "close enough" to bleed charge off, but not exact enough to give "total As-is-ness". And so we have "OT's" still dramatizing heavily the total inval of Implant GPM's. This is the "Implantology" aspect that Veda is so keen on. And of course there are those "db's" that have adopted the "shock and awe" modus operandi as survival across all dynamics, seeking overwhelm from food, sex, groups, govts. etc. .

Div6 - does that imply you may have found more accurate goals and items?



Keying out of it is one thing. Erasing it is another....

Amen to that.

[MarkWI]

I've read a lot of experiences of people who were sent to the RPF.

What I'm wondering though is what did people not in the RPF think about it?

Did you feel sorry for the people? Did you think they must be evil? Did you think 'What kind of an organization am I a part of that could do that to their own people?".

I'm just wondering why that wasn't enough to make people want out of the CofS.

The curious one,

Krysti


I remember I was feeling sorry for them. We were indoctrinated 'Many apply few are chosen'.
Every Sea Org Member needs to undergo a very soft RPF like program to be accepted in the Sea Org, called EPF (Estates Project Force) consisting of about 9 hours manual work, 5 hours study, where you are indoctrinated about the Sea Organization and learn that 'Many apply few are chosen'.

So completing it gave you a win, an 'I made it!', 'I'm among the few chosen!' in the game of being part of the Sea Org, the 'Elite of Scientology'.

I saw many RPFers running around, looking down and not talking to anybody. I was looking at them with some admiration because the fact that they undergo the RPF instead of just leave was showing their dedication and how much they really wanted to be in the 'Sea Org'.

Looking at how much they were sacrificing their life for 'the purpose' it meant the purpose was worth of it, so it even enforced my own dedication to the Sea Org.

I was not aware of the details of it, nor I was aware of what 'horrendous' actions they did to be put in a condition of being sent to the RPF or expelled from the Sea Org. I thought the choice was up to them at the time, and the Sea Org was just giving them a last chance to be part of the team.

This is all part of the indoctrination. Lies make you do silly things.

M