Brilliant new Freezone Website.

[Terril park]

Brilliant new Freezone Website.

http://freezone-tech.info/

This website is AMAZING! Incredibly comprehensive. It quotes one of
the most favorite success stories I ever posted, from a dear friend.

bb


A freezone “Wake Up Call”

(From one of our forums, with passion. Others may love it as much as I did.
bb)

============ =
I’m just pointing this out to help Y’all. I don’t need to network or meet or anything else. I could care less who is floating around without terminals. I am so tired of going out of my way to cheer people up about something or help your crotchety old asses get moving…like R.. going off and R. who knows where. Fuck Y’all..I’m set with my auditor and my ot levels. If ya can’t have some cheerleading without getting all protesty and serious just get the cable t.v. going and pray. What ever happened to getting the show on the road? What’s up with all the specualtion? This isn’t a comm ev here, this is a heart beat and a life. Break every rule. Break every rule. Get barely legal as you are. Go meet a stranger somewhere at a “meet up” and if it’s an OSA staff member, well, he got out of the org for a night. Let him talk and get some space. I’ve been in every dark corner of this
planet and you know what? People, even there, don’t really bite. We are not criminals. We are not criminals. Someone convinced us because of “trademarks” we might be criminals. You know what, don’t buy that shit. I worked at the Flag Command Bureau and watched WDC execs do questionable things.
I’ve really had it with people tip toeing around afraid to be there and communicate or walk the road to freedom because the jokers and degraders at the Flag Command Bureau have some LRH policy they NEVER DUPLICATED to use to STOP people from going FREE. YOU HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SURVIVE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM ANYONE. Just go for blood.
LRH did.
When you get to the top and see how much further you have to go…..on your own at last, you stop being so overwhelmed by the gift. I hate to tell you this, but you will not get all the way out with what we have here now. The whole of Scientology in all of it’s magnificence, all the way through OT8….will just wake you up somewhat. Enough to travel again with some confidence for pleasure. That’s all. To sit around all mystified and awe struck over this smidget of luck is your waste of time. You just got a lift to the last chance Texaco, get over it. Think big. This is a breadcrumb. As a simple clear I had to handle OT8’s HE&R and push them on to to a future goal. This is wizard of OZ crap after clear.Essential, important, life saving, but the bottom of the ladder. All the materials are on the net. You know this is a science. It has an exact application. This has worked. What the fuck man is this but another simple cook book and yet…there you are speculating. It will never get easier than this. If you can’t go on forward now then, look forward to being a damned cell or something. All the complexity is gone, here in the freezone. All the expence is here in the freezone. All the tech terminals you have here, you know what, if you are still bitching..well, adios. Be a cell, you know shrimp one day in my fish tank or something, now go on!.

ToBe


For more information on services in the Freezone,
mail me, Terril Park, at basic2basic@yahoo.com


To find out more about us and to join our
forums see our websites at :-

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

http://internationalfreezone.net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its use.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...213741&q=begin

For those who are quite new to the subjects of
Dianetics and Scientology, we have a forum where
your questions can be answered, and there is a minimum
of the quite extensive specialised terminology of
these subjects. The forum website also has a couple of
dictionaries of scientology terms.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freezone101

Here is a public forum set up by rebel OT VIII Geir Isene.

http://www.scnforum.org

[Blue Spirit]

Lots of Truth there and about time too.

Thanks, Terril.

[Svetka]

I truly appreciate your acknowledgment of my work with website. But it is more like a digest, not really a "new" site. I collect a data from the Internet wherever I can find it, making it available in one place.
I wish people start participating by suggesting links or writing new articles.
ARC,
Tatiana.

[Roan]

I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

.

[AnonKat]

I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

.

Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch

[Voltaire's Child]

I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

.

I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

[Voltaire's Child]

Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch

yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

[Veda]

Brilliant new Freezone Website.

http://freezone-tech.info/

This website is AMAZING! Incredibly comprehensive. It quotes one of
the most favorite success stories I ever posted, from a dear friend.

bb


A freezone “Wake Up Call”

(From one of our forums, with passion. Others may love it as much as I did.
bb)

============ =


. Just go for blood.
LRH did.

-snip-

If you can’t go on forward now then, look forward to being a damned cell or something. All the complexity is gone, here in the freezone. All the experience is here in the freezone. All the tech terminals you have here, you know what, if you are still bitching..well, adios. Be a cell, you know shrimp one day in my fish tank

ToBe

-snip-



Threatening references to the dwindling spiral in a Success Story. Is that a good indicator?

[Terril park]

I truly appreciate your acknowledgment of my work with website. But it is more like a digest, not really a "new" site. I collect a data from the Internet wherever I can find it, making it available in one place.
I wish people start participating by suggesting links or writing new articles.
ARC,
Tatiana.

Was wondering who did this. Awesome job! Still am wondering really
as I don't think I've read anything you've posted. I think this website is the most comprehensive ever. Rivalling even Freezoneearth.

Two criticisms:- You've posted a whole HCOB. This puts you in danger of legal attack from you know who. But if you're in Russia you may not give a damn.

The other thing is that you put the veritas website as the true statement
of who runs COS. In fact Larry Brennan, whose website you feature :) ,
is probably more authoritive. He created the current corporate structure.

[tamphex]

I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

Free Zone.
Freedom of Speech.

Ain't it a bitch when you can't have one without the other, eh. :wink2:

[Zinjifar]

Threatening references to the dwindling spiral in a Success Story. Is that a good indicator?

For Scientology? 100% Standard.

Zinj

[SuperPowers]

...
Two criticisms:- You've posted a whole HCOB. This puts you in danger of legal attack from you know who. But if you're in Russia you may not give a damn.
...


I wonder, L Ron Hubbard is diseased. Who, lawfully, owns his work and if somebody does how was it acquired, do you know? I think Hubbard told us to whisper in the ears of sons, and their sons, "the work was free"? :)

(Yes, the server is in Russia.)

[Zinjifar]

I wonder, L Ron Hubbard is diseased. Who, lawfully, owns his work and if somebody does how was it acquired, do you know? I think Hubbard told us to whisper in the ears of sons, and their sons, "the work was free"? :)

(Yes, the server is in Russia.)

The 'work' is free, and, the work will set you free (arbeit macht frei)

But, the licenses cost money

Zinj

[Svetka]

Two criticisms:- You've posted a whole HCOB. This puts you in danger of legal attack from you know who. But if you're in Russia you may not give a damn.
The website is hosted in Russia. Did you mean danger to website or me personally?

The other thing is that you put the veritas website as the true statement of who runs COS. In fact Larry Brennan, whose website you feature :) , is probably more authoritive. He created the current corporate structure.
I have a link to the http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com site (is it the one you meant?) because I found there a lot of facts with references to its documented prove. I consider it a valuable source of data about Ch of $ and it's structure.

If you have other advices, suggestions or concerns to share, you are welcome to comment on the website, it helps, thank you! :thumbsup:

[Veda]

A 1986 talk in Europe:

http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/mayo%20audio%20lecture.ram

The August 1986 David Mayo interview by Russell Miller:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Mayo's 1991 article on 'Clear' in IVy mag/Free Spirit magazine:

http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Look forward to seeing all of these featured on your site.

[Voltaire's Child]

Free Zone.
Freedom of Speech.

Ain't it a bitch when you can't have one without the other, eh. :wink2:

I really wouldn't know. I've always practiced freedom of speech. Left the cult over that very issue. And Terril certainly practices it.

[Zinjifar]

Now really; how could you have freedom of speech when the critics keep suppressing you???

:)

Zinj

[KnightVision]

I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

Then why are you using them? Cause your a self proclaimed Bitch?

Your comments here are downright rude and nasty, not necessarily to Roan... whom I assume has a more 'grown up' wisdom concerning his commentary, but rather towards your own plight.

Have you failed to read Emma's commentary on you... something about a whinny, Snotty Child requiring mother's hand to guide your commentary behavior?

At some point (Don't think anyone's holding their breath) you may want to look a little deeper into why you would proclaim yourself a Bitch.

That you respond with this type of 'little person' and 'shut off intellect' commentary does nothing to aid or assist the FZ; quite the contrary. In effect you're far better at denouncing the FZ than those who simply state that they don't find it to be 'brilliant'.

But you're commentary is quite brilliant for those who understand the nuances of 'irony'.

[Svetka]

A 1986 talk in Europe:

http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/mayo%20audio%20lecture.ram

The August 1986 David Mayo interview by Russell Miller:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Mayo's 1991 article on 'Clear' in IVy mag/Free Spirit magazine:

http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Look forward to seeing all of these featured on your site.
Thank you, Veda!
I used them all.

[Voltaire's Child]

Then why are you using them?

I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch



Cause your a self proclaimed Bitch?

I'm glad you can read a sig line. Much good may it do you.


Your comments here are downright rude and nasty, not necessarily to Roan... whom I assume has a more 'grown up' wisdom concerning his commentary, but rather towards your own plight.

I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch


Have you failed to read Emma's commentary on you... something about a whinny, Snotty Child requiring mother's hand to guide your commentary behavior?

Actually, her post said nothing about requiring a mother's hand. And it wasn't all about one person, anyway. Several people were named in the thread and it pertained specifically to old feuds which there have been some. The clue to this would be in the name of the post. It was not about Claire M Swazey and her need for a parent and her general posting capabilities. You might want to try rereading that, since you obviously didn't understand it. And if you still don't get it, feel free to email me (not PM) and I will tell you which old feuds they pertain to, the dates and the people (not just the ones including me) they affect.

I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch


At some point (Don't think anyone's holding their breath) you may want to look a little deeper into why you would proclaim yourself a Bitch.

At some point, you might want to look a little deeper as to why you would come in on a thread where someone took a potshot at an earnest (if naive) opening post where someone else (me) responded to that and (you)decided to start with name calling about bitches and "whinny" (sic) self indulgent whatevers. That's name calling and I am reporting your post.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch


That you respond with this type of 'little person' and 'shut off intellect' commentary does nothing to aid or assist the FZ; quite the contrary. In effect you're far better at denouncing the FZ than those who simply state that they don't find it to be 'brilliant'.

I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.

Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch



But you're commentary is quite brilliant for those who understand the nuances of 'irony'.

Roan posted:


I don't think brilliant and Freezone belong in the same sentence.

Just sayin'.

I then posted:
I don't think low blows and pot shots belong on this sub forum and that if people don't want to read about the FZ they probably should go sit the fuck down and read something else.
Just sayin'.

and


yeah, that was nasty.

Reminds me of some pets I used to have. Cat and Dog. They had the typical cat and dog relationship. Cat was mean to the dog sometimes. One night I was going to bed and they wanted to come to the bedroom, too, and were following me. We have an old house and some narrow hallways and so the dog was following me and the cat sped up and drew abreast of the dog. THEN she got pissed off because HE was next to HER and then reared up and slapped his face with her little kitteh paws. Looked like a deranged woodchuck. However, she was the one who went to where he was in the first place.

In response to someone who posted:
Mrauuuw *scratch* ouch

Had Roan not come in and slammed Terrill, I'd not have commented. You seem to have no problem with Roan making the mean comment. It was a pot shot, was unkind, and anyone can see that.

That's because you are engaging in both a vendetta and an old feud. I will mention that in my post to the moderator.

I don't need you to psychoanalyze me or misquote posts by other people in which I'm mentioned or dig up my sig line and zero in on the word bitch as an excuse to call me one or make some bogus claim about my needing a mother. If defending someone who just got slammed for posting a pro FZ post on the FZ section of the board is a problem for you, then all I can say is you might want to take a good long look at your own dealiebop(one of my husband's favorite expressions).

I can take care of my own life. I've donated money to critics, I've given people moral support as well, and I just wrote several posts VIGOROUSLY defending THIS BOARD and its ADMIN in the last three days on another venue. So don't judge me. If you've got a problem with me, then email me. It doesn't belong here.

My email address is in my profile. If you don't email me, that's fine, but I will expect no more denigrating and personalized OLD FEUDS from you on this forum. On this board you can either ignore me or respond to me in a non ad hom non personalized manner. Those are your only two choices re our communication on this forum.

HTH. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Thank you for your time.

[Megalomaniac]

YOU HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SURVIVE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM ANYONE.

:thumbsup:

[Mystic]

Another FreakZone site, more internet contamination.

[I told you I was trouble]

I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:




I'm glad you can read a sig line. Much good may it do you.



I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:



Actually, her post said nothing about requiring a mother's hand. And it wasn't all about one person, anyway. Several people were named in the thread and it pertained specifically to old feuds which there have been some. The clue to this would be in the name of the post. It was not about Claire M Swazey and her need for a parent and her general posting capabilities. You might want to try rereading that, since you obviously didn't understand it. And if you still don't get it, feel free to email me (not PM) and I will tell you which old feuds they pertain to, the dates and the people (not just the ones including me) they affect.

I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:



At some point, you might want to look a little deeper as to why you would come in on a thread where someone took a potshot at an earnest (if naive) opening post where someone else (me) responded to that and (you)decided to start with name calling about bitches and "whinny" (sic) self indulgent whatevers. That's name calling and I am reporting your post.

Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:



I didn't post any such comments here. You've not quoted any. I was responding to a rather mean comment of Roan's about Terril's opening post.

Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:




Roan posted:



I then posted:

and



In response to someone who posted:

Had Roan not come in and slammed Terrill, I'd not have commented. You seem to have no problem with Roan making the mean comment. It was a pot shot, was unkind, and anyone can see that.

That's because you are engaging in both a vendetta and an old feud. I will mention that in my post to the moderator.

I don't need you to psychoanalyze me or misquote posts by other people in which I'm mentioned or dig up my sig line and zero in on the word bitch as an excuse to call me one or make some bogus claim about my needing a mother. If defending someone who just got slammed for posting a pro FZ post on the FZ section of the board is a problem for you, then all I can say is you might want to take a good long look at your own dealiebop(one of my husband's favorite expressions).

I can take care of my own life. I've donated money to critics, I've given people moral support as well, and I just wrote several posts VIGOROUSLY defending THIS BOARD and its ADMIN in the last three days on another venue. So don't judge me. If you've got a problem with me, then email me. It doesn't belong here.

My email address is in my profile. If you don't email me, that's fine, but I will expect no more denigrating and personalized OLD FEUDS from you on this forum. On this board you can either ignore me or respond to me in a non ad hom non personalized manner. Those are your only two choices re our communication on this forum.

HTH. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Thank you for your time.

Exhausted sob.

:bigcry:

[Voltaire's Child]

/Fluffy hands friend kleenex and a pillow. :coolwink:

[Voltaire's Child]

Anyway, I've always found that people who post commentary or send other communication (like PMs, etc) advising others to examine their motives and to change and "this and that person said this about you" themselves have questionable motives, integrity and intelligence. They should ask themselves why they are making other people a project of some sort. It's just the internet bully situation which is just part of the human condition. My friends, husband and I like to talk about those sorts of posts, etc, and make fun of them.

Quite an interesting thing coming out of Terril posting a happy wide eyed op in the FZ section of the board about the FZ, garnering a nasty comment from Roan and someone freaking the fuck out because I took Roan to task for it. It's just a vendetta and is just internet bullying.

[moarxenu]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.

[degraded being]

Reading the last pages of this thread, I get "mental image pictures" of a meal being eaten, spewed up and picked through for morsels to chew over again, washed down with any other bits lying around, then spewed up again; and just to add flavour there are sometimes bits from meals eaten years ago. Spitting this overly digested crap at others makes for delightful intercourse with the dinner guests.

[Veda]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.

This question has come up before:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=327962&postcount=4

Another way of thinking about it is that some are "Who people" and some are "What people."

The "Who people" are concerned with "Ron," "LRH," "Source," etc., with making sure that every detail of his teachings is exactly preserved and known, and - sometimes - with themselves being, literally, "connected to Source (Ron)." (Many years ago, I was taken aside by the person who now heads Ron's Orgs (Freezone) USA, and warned that, unless I had my "rud(iment)s in with Ron," that I would never "make it." That, unless Ron found me acceptable as a being, I would not be permitted to reach the "other side of the Bridge," where, of course, "Ron" was. This view is more common than one might think, but is kept behind the scenes as it's "bad PR" with the "wogs" and "meatballs."

The "What people" are concerned not with "Who," but with "What" - with ideas, procedures, processes, etc.

"What people" are vaguely tolerated by the Scientology "Freezone" as necessary for "Freezone" expansion, and can sometimes be co-opted by manipulative types in the Freezone, who forward the PR line that "It's not about Ron," etc., even though they privately think otherwise.

(And there are some naive folks, who still think of themselves as Scientologists, who - in a transitional learning stage - really do think emphasis should be on "What" and not "Who" and - a long time ago - I was one of these.)

"Who people" are always Scientologists of one sort or another, Free Zone (Capt. Bill's Ron's Orgs), Freezone, or (Rathbun's) Independent Scientologists.

"What people" usually move beyond Scientology, cease thinking of themselves as Scientologists or calling themselves Scientologists, and would - roughly - on ESMB, fall into the category of the (non Scientology) Independent Field.

Hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejweI0EQpX8

[Mystic]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.

Ya, same toilet.

[Voltaire's Child]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.

The Free Zone is sometimes, as a phrase, used as a general catch all for anyone practicing Scn outside CofS. However, there are some loose knit cyber FZ associations like the IFA, and so on, that actually DO refer to the FZ name.

Independent Scientologists could be said to be any Scn'ists who practice outside CofS, including ones (like I used to be) who do not consider themselves to be Free Zone.

Bottom line- there's an overlap.

[Voltaire's Child]

Reading the last pages of this thread, I get "mental image pictures" of a meal being eaten, spewed up and picked through for morsels to chew over again, washed down with any other bits lying around, then spewed up again; and just to add flavour there are sometimes bits from meals eaten years ago. Spitting this overly digested crap at others makes for delightful intercourse with the dinner guests.

Well, that's what happens when people can't live and let live. Let this be a lesson to you.

[Dulloldfart]

The Free Zone is sometimes, as a phrase, used as a general catch all for anyone practicing Scn outside CofS. However, there are some loose knit cyber FZ associations like the IFA, and so on, that actually DO refer to the FZ name.

Independent Scientologists could be said to be any Scn'ists who practice outside CofS, including ones (like I used to be) who do not consider themselves to be Free Zone.

Bottom line- there's an overlap.

Claire, there's the Freezone and the Free Space Zone (Free Zone). The Free Space Zone are the CBR Galactic Patrol guys. I think you have them mixed up. I used to confuse them until I hit on the idea of calling the CBR ones (Free Zone) the Free Space Zone — easy to remember that way. :)

Paul

[Zinjifar]

What we really need is a catch-all label for those who stomp their little footsies and chant 'It does *so* work! I wasn't stupid!'

Zinj

[Dulloldfart]

What we really need is a catch-all label for those who stomp their little footsies and chant 'It does *so* work! I wasn't stupid!'

Zinj

Twerks.

Paul

[Mark A. Baker]

Claire, there's the Freezone and the Free Space Zone (Free Zone). The Free Space Zone are the CBR Galactic Patrol guys. I think you have them mixed up. I used to confuse them until I hit on the idea of calling the CBR ones (Free Zone) the Free Space Zone — easy to remember that way. :)

Paul

I don't think that works Paul for the simple reason that whereas the CBR'ers may be consistent in their usage, I don't think anyone else cares to be.


Mark A. Baker

[Dulloldfart]

I don't think that works Paul for the simple reason that whereas the CBR'ers may be consistent in their usage, I don't think anyone else cares to be.

Mark A. Baker

I think you're right, Mark. It's a shame, though, as it is such a lovely idea. :)

Paul

[Terril park]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.

I'm afraid you've ventured into very dangerous waters. This question
has been argued for at least a decade now with much fallout and casualties.
Here is a response of mine to the beautiful but mad Virginia McClaughrey
and hubby Mike, ex GO, who got hold of one of the first freezone forums,
and then the most important freezone forum "Freezone America", and destroyed them both. Virginia was proud of the fact that she reduced the membership of the first, COSInvestigations forum, or COSI from 120 down to 13 and described it as upstat as it no longer included "agents" or Marcabians.

Not long afterward she and hubby wrote how they watched spaceship
battles from their porch, and later how LRH was auditing them in their garden shed in 1998. Then came the declaration that they were the only two standard tech auditors on the planet. Possibly other planets also, but I never asked that question. They admirably attacked even handedly all
" independants" and "Freezoners" whilst supporting " Free Zoners" of which,
apperently, they were the last two.

------------------
Here is my tribute to Virginia from 2001:-

Good news folks! The Freezone now has its own OSA.
As LRH said Teegeack is the dumping ground for crooks,
tax-evaders, entrepreneurs, artists,musicians, even
rock drummers! And a bigger band of malcontents it would be harder to
find in the whole Galaxy. For
some readon the most incorrigible of them end up in the Freezone.
There they go and practice clearing tech, without issue authority from
the correct terminals.

At last we have a Dept. 20 ,(OSA) to handle this.
For years Mike and Virginia McClaurghy have worked tirelessly to bring
this about. They have been busy doing the job alone. Now they have
recruited Paul Misunias, webmaster at FZA to help.

Mike is a trained intelligence officer. Having much experience in
the GO, in such activities as covertly feeding pregnant women LSD. He
is thus able to readily dramatise the persona and actions needed for
snooping
around and dirty tricks. Virginia takes special joy in the application
of PR series 18 "How to handle Black PR". This is where you dead agent
people you don't like or who are nasty to you.Not to mention those
that don't follow the correct brand of tech. Such are obviously
"Agents" or even Markabians, and need to be nullified and gotten rid
of.

Working on various lists, Virginia singlehandedly managed to get
rid of 90% of subscribers. Thus ensuring " agent" free areas. Also
Virginia is expert at elegant use of investigatory tech and Data
series. She pinpointed the despicable Ralph Hilton as an implanter.
She correctly spotted that the term "Freezone" had come to mean any
clearing tech outside of COS. This is of course squirrel as it should
only mean what Mike and Virginia says is correct tech. This was
entirely due to Ralph's pitifully inadequate attempts to get
"Independant" as a term for practicing LRH tech. As V so rightly
pointed out, this was "propaganda by re-definitions of words". An old
implanter trick. Voila! Ralph spotted as an implanter.
This being one of the things that is blindingly obvious once pointed
out, but without V's knowledge of Data series very difficult to spot.

Having achieved all that, Mike and Virginia knew they had to take
larger measures and moved to the FZA forum. There they recruited the
webmaster Paul Misunias to help their mission to free the Galaxy of
agents and Implanters. Here is an example of Pauls Dynamic approach to
this:-

==================
Curt
Newbie

It seems to me that the new administration is taking up the twisted
mantle of the CofS.

-----

misiunas


Curt, your messages are no longer welcome here.

-------------------------------------------------------

This was a clear example of Curt, a newbie, Bypassing Mike and
Virginia. It it THEIR hat to demand reform and say nasty things about
COS. This is the firm hand the FZ needs. A forum where there is free
speech for all, in a controlled and ordered environment. In a further
cleansing effort all 140+ of members of FZAOs have been banned from the FZA forum. FZA now has
10 posters. And is AGENT FREE!!!

I believe that may be connected to Mikes remarks that we "are in
bed with Alan Walter". Funny that. He's not on our Org board. He's not
even on any of our lists! Still,I'm not a trained intelligence officer
like Mike. I probably can't be expected to understand.

There are future developments to come. Mike and V have on their
lists pointed out very strongly that Ken Ogger aka "Pilot" is one of
the worlds biggest squirrels. And is probably an implanter too. I
think very soon you will see Kens words removed from FZA.

All this though is a great personal dillema. This is
the third Goldenrod, I've got from Mike and Virginia!
I'm at my wits end. I must be a degraded being.

Ah! I know, I'll petition them to start an RPF for the FZA. I could
have the honour of being the first member! :-)
bb

Dedicated to my Muse and Mentor,

That Doyenne of the data series, The illuminatus
of investigative tech, that Princess of Pan-determinism

Hail Virginia!

[Veda]

I'm afraid

-snip-



That's the longest no-answer answer I seen in quite a while.

[Voltaire's Child]

Claire, there's the Freezone and the Free Space Zone (Free Zone). The Free Space Zone are the CBR Galactic Patrol guys. I think you have them mixed up. I used to confuse them until I hit on the idea of calling the CBR ones (Free Zone) the Free Space Zone — easy to remember that way. :)

Paul

Interesting. I did know about the RO crowd but never heard the addendum of the word "space" in there. This is the first time. Though I must say that is awfully descriptive since they do seem to be awfully space opera centric.

[Voltaire's Child]

What we really need is a catch-all label for those who stomp their little footsies and chant 'It does *so* work! I wasn't stupid!'

Zinj

Or one for people whose particular personal ology involves sniping at those who are up front and candid about their continuing interest in Scn, often derailing threads, posting personalized commentary and such. Oh wait, there is a label. But I can't post it due to the rules of conduct here.

I do wonder why those folks are so personally invested in this witch hunting, though. Is it a matter of personal insecurity or what?

[degraded being]

Well, that's what happens when people can't live and let live. Let this be a lesson to you.

See below about regurgitation (from another thread).
Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation

"I am not a Marty fan at all, but I do think that some of the criticism that comes his way is not truly valid or feasible. I think that some of the things said about him are things that, when other people do them, nobody says one thing about. It's one of the things I've noticed in the critic's movement and I think it's something one can find in other critical venues (other than re Scn, CofS, Hubbard) such as politics and so forth. That if someone is in the bad graces of those who are criticizing him or her, that just about any criticism is considered valid- even those that do not make sense. In the course of my life including 12 years on Scn critical fora, I've seen a number of arguments made that clearly came from a double standard."

WE GOT THAT!!!!!!!!

[olska]

Wow! I don't believe my eyes! How succinctly and how perfectly this poster has described her own characteristics and past posting history and behavior!


Anyway, I've always found that people who post commentary or send other communication (like PMs, etc) advising others to examine their motives and to change and "this and that person said this about you" themselves have questionable motives, integrity and intelligence.

Couldn't have said it better myself -- poster has written a nearly perfect self-portrait


They should ask themselves why they are making other people a project of some sort. It's just the internet bully situation which is just part of the human condition. My friends, husband and I like to talk about those sorts of posts, etc, and make fun of them.

Is this confession part of the "I'm no longer a scientologist" stance, or just a put out here for gp?

Quite an interesting thing coming out of Terril posting a happy wide eyed op in the FZ section of the board about the FZ, garnering a nasty comment from Roan and someone freaking the fuck out because I took Roan to task for it. It's just a vendetta and is just internet bullying.

Who would have thought after more than 10,000 posts acting out too many instances of "internet bullying" and "vendettas" to count, this poster would one day be inspired to actually make this admission!

Time to celebrate! Caek anyone? ...or some HRT?

[Voltaire's Child]

See below about regurgitation (from another thread).
Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation Regurgitation

"I am not a Marty fan at all, but I do think that some of the criticism that comes his way is not truly valid or feasible. I think that some of the things said about him are things that, when other people do them, nobody says one thing about. It's one of the things I've noticed in the critic's movement and I think it's something one can find in other critical venues (other than re Scn, CofS, Hubbard) such as politics and so forth. That if someone is in the bad graces of those who are criticizing him or her, that just about any criticism is considered valid- even those that do not make sense. In the course of my life including 12 years on Scn critical fora, I've seen a number of arguments made that clearly came from a double standard."

WE GOT THAT!!!!!!!!


Got nothin' to do with this thread, tho'.

[Voltaire's Child]

--deleted dup post-- (Browser hiccup)

[Voltaire's Child]

Wow! I don't believe my eyes! How succinctly and how perfectly this poster has described her own characteristics and past posting history and behavior!

I wonder why it's a problem for some of you that I responded to a rather acerbic mean little post with a defence of Terril.



Couldn't have said it better myself -- poster has written a nearly perfect self-portrait

Would that be before or after KnightVision came in, misrepresented something on another thread, claimed I was in need of parenting, made much of the word "bitch" in my sigline and I responded to this attack?

By the way, I reported his post and I'm reporting yours.



Is this confession part of the "I'm no longer a scientologist" stance, or just a put out here for gp?

I didn't confess anything.



Who would have thought after more than 10,000 posts acting out too many instances of "internet bullying" and "vendettas" to count, this poster would one day be inspired to actually make this admission!

Well, you're the one who came in here and wrote all this ad hominem shit about me. I wasn't thinking of you or talking to or about you. So you're going to have a rather tough time making the case that I follow you around and pick on you. I responded to an ad hom post by KnightVision in which he made much of the word bitch in my sigline, said I should change and all this, and that Emma claimed I needed parenting (she did not) and that Em's thread was about me (it was about 4 people and only pertained to "old feuds" and not to any contributor's entire posting career). That was all personalized garbage and if you think I'm not going to defend myself, then you've got another think coming.

Roan was the one who wrote the first post denigrating someone- in this case, Terril. My defense of Terril is not an act of bullying.

I wrote what I wrote because I thought- no, I knew- that Roan came in to the FZ section of the board, wherein a post about an FZ site was written (which contained accolades for that site) and made a nasty comment. Had he not done that, I'd not have defended Terril. I responded to a post I found distasteful. I don't care who wrote it or what had been posted any other time by that person. Frankly, the two previous exchanges (not on ESMB but not too long ago) I had with Roan had been quite pleasant and I'd appreciated that very much. So no vendetta here.

You really should stop taking the trouble to post so much personalized crap about me. Anyone can see which one of we two contributors initiated this exchange, among others. I find it quite odd that you interpret someone standing up for herself and for her friends to be bullying yet your own personalized commentary is somehow just fine. I can only assume (not being sarcastic) that you consider that you and certain others are correct and this being the case, that anything I do to rebut or demur is morally and ethically wrong. Sort of like DM rebutting people who are making correct and negative assertions. However, the personalized bullshit posted herein only shows that you are carrying out both a vendetta and an old feud. Now what do they call that-- oh yes, the end justifies the means. IIRC, (I'm reading Trotsky's book about him now) Stalin and others used to use that same justification for their many murders of innocent people. Or brutal police who've set people up so that they'd fight back or even just ask what's going on, then press charges for "resisting arrest".

Dear Olska, I will close this by saying that for every person who talks to me the way you've done, KnightVision's done, and DB has done, there are several more who tell me I'm doing great. So why the hell would I listen to this bitter axe grinding from people who come in scream at me then accuse ME of bullying because I respond? Given the quality (and quantity, frankly) of these sorts of posts, I would be much aggrieved, sad, and experience great mental angst, anguish, self doubt and a true Dark Teatime of the Soul if you or anyone of the others so doing were to actually approve of me. Because then I'd truly know I was fucking up, big time.

Thanks for throwing yourself at me again. It was vastly entertaining and I feel very self validated.

:kma:

[Voltaire's Child]

Since this thread got derailed by a snipe at Terril and then several highly personalized expressions of outrage when I defended Terril and, then, myself, let's party on (for those who actually want to stay on topic) at the thread where Terril's op has been reposted with an additional explanation that the afore mentioned FZ site has some critical posts there- something one really does not often see on FZ sites. Probably why Terril had such a high opinion of it.

So this one's jacked but those who really want to comment or read about the FZ site (in the FZ section of ESMB) can read about it here. There already is free and open discussion there and it's not all pro FZ, either. But even so, it's on topic which is more than I can say for the posts about what kind of person I allegedly am or what I said on some other thread that has nothing to do with this one.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906

[olska]

I wonder why it's a problem for some of you that I responded to a rather acerbic mean little post with a defence of Terril.




Would that be before or after KnightVision came in, misrepresented something on another thread, claimed I was in need of parenting, made much of the word "bitch" in my sigline and I responded to this attack?

By the way, I reported his post and I'm reporting yours.




I didn't confess anything.




Well, you're the one who came in here and wrote all this ad hominem shit about me. I wasn't thinking of you or talking to or about you. So you're going to have a rather tough time making the case that I follow you around and pick on you. I responded to an ad hom post by KnightVision in which he made much of the word bitch in my sigline, said I should change and all this, and that Emma claimed I needed parenting (she did not) and that Em's thread was about me (it was about 4 people and only pertained to "old feuds" and not to any contributor's entire posting career). That was all personalized garbage and if you think I'm not going to defend myself, then you've got another think coming.

Roan was the one who wrote the first post denigrating someone- in this case, Terril. My defense of Terril is not an act of bullying.

I wrote what I wrote because I thought- no, I knew- that Roan came in to the FZ section of the board, wherein a post about an FZ site was written (which contained accolades for that site) and made a nasty comment. Had he not done that, I'd not have defended Terril. I responded to a post I found distasteful. I don't care who wrote it or what had been posted any other time by that person. Frankly, the two previous exchanges (not on ESMB but not too long ago) I had with Roan had been quite pleasant and I'd appreciated that very much. So no vendetta here.

You really should stop taking the trouble to post so much personalized crap about me. Anyone can see which one of we two contributors initiated this exchange, among others. I find it quite odd that you interpret someone standing up for herself and for her friends to be bullying yet your own personalized commentary is somehow just fine. I can only assume (not being sarcastic) that you consider that you and certain others are correct and this being the case, that anything I do to rebut or demur is morally and ethically wrong. Sort of like DM rebutting people who are making correct and negative assertions. However, the personalized bullshit posted herein only shows that you are carrying out both a vendetta and an old feud. Now what do they call that-- oh yes, the end justifies the means. IIRC, (I'm reading Trotsky's book about him now) Stalin and others used to use that same justification for their many murders of innocent people. Or brutal police who've set people up so that they'd fight back or even just ask what's going on, then press charges for "resisting arrest".

Dear Olska, I will close this by saying that for every person who talks to me the way you've done, KnightVision's done, and DB has done, there are several more who tell me I'm doing great. So why the hell would I listen to this bitter axe grinding from people who come in scream at me then accuse ME of bullying because I respond? Given the quality (and quantity, frankly) of these sorts of posts, I would be much aggrieved, sad, and experience great mental angst, anguish, self doubt and a true Dark Teatime of the Soul if you or anyone of the others so doing were to actually approve of me. Because then I'd truly know I was fucking up, big time.

Thanks for throwing yourself at me again. It was vastly entertaining and I feel very self validated.

:kma:

Cancel the caek -- double up on the HRT. :unsure:

[Svetka]

Actually, the website http://freezone-tech.info that was why this thread had started, has a name "Spiritual Freedom Zone". Which is just a lable. Why would anybody care so much about lables, when it is so easy to look at the thing itself and know what it is? :duh:

[degraded being]

Got nothin' to do with this thread, tho'.

Oh yes it has. It is the quintessential Falooofaalafi.
(Thats Fluffy in Samoan).
It's "Who you really are as a person". It's what is left when you have finished auditing out your "case" with that goddamn squirrel tech which you and your squirrels mates use.
It's what you find after you do OT 8 and find out what you are not.
It's what is at the core of the perfect balance between attack and defend in ALL your posts. They all have it: explicitly or implicitly. That's why I worried all day about how rude I was shouting at you on the board, but I return to find you graciously composed, unfazed, because I have
pointed at what is.
Olska's post complements mine.
Just give a fricken big smile, like the "Freewinds" completions, and say "Wow....just wow...I'm so like blown out" and cough up 300 000 smackers to Olska and me for being genius enough and benevolent enough to share our great wisdom with you.

[KnightVision]

Brilliant:


Glorious; magnificent: the brilliant court life at Versailles.

Superb; wonderful: The soloist gave a brilliant performance.

Marked by unusual and impressive intellectual acuteness: a brilliant mind; a brilliant solution to the problem. See Synonyms at intelligent.


Notes:

No, this new FZ site does not meet any of these criteria.

The FZ trots out, for the most part, LconH doctrines, rituals, various techniques, etc. Some of it is interesting and or useful...

But hardly 'Brilliant'.

[Cat's Squirrel]

Brilliant new Freezone Website.

http://freezone-tech.info/

This website is AMAZING! Incredibly comprehensive. It quotes one of
the most favorite success stories I ever posted, from a dear friend.

bb


A freezone “Wake Up Call”

(From one of our forums, with passion. Others may love it as much as I did.
bb)

============ =
I’m just pointing this out to help Y’all. I don’t need to network or meet or anything else. I could care less who is floating around without terminals. I am so tired of going out of my way to cheer people up about something or help your crotchety old asses get moving…like R.. going off and R. who knows where. Fuck Y’all..I’m set with my auditor and my ot levels. If ya can’t have some cheerleading without getting all protesty and serious just get the cable t.v. going and pray. What ever happened to getting the show on the road? What’s up with all the specualtion? This isn’t a comm ev here, this is a heart beat and a life. Break every rule. Break every rule. Get barely legal as you are. Go meet a stranger somewhere at a “meet up” and if it’s an OSA staff member, well, he got out of the org for a night. Let him talk and get some space. I’ve been in every dark corner of this
planet and you know what? People, even there, don’t really bite. We are not criminals. We are not criminals. Someone convinced us because of “trademarks” we might be criminals. You know what, don’t buy that shit. I worked at the Flag Command Bureau and watched WDC execs do questionable things.
I’ve really had it with people tip toeing around afraid to be there and communicate or walk the road to freedom because the jokers and degraders at the Flag Command Bureau have some LRH policy they NEVER DUPLICATED to use to STOP people from going FREE. YOU HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SURVIVE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM ANYONE. Just go for blood.
LRH did.
When you get to the top and see how much further you have to go…..on your own at last, you stop being so overwhelmed by the gift. I hate to tell you this, but you will not get all the way out with what we have here now. The whole of Scientology in all of it’s magnificence, all the way through OT8….will just wake you up somewhat. Enough to travel again with some confidence for pleasure. That’s all. To sit around all mystified and awe struck over this smidget of luck is your waste of time. You just got a lift to the last chance Texaco, get over it. Think big. This is a breadcrumb. As a simple clear I had to handle OT8’s HE&R and push them on to to a future goal. This is wizard of OZ crap after clear.Essential, important, life saving, but the bottom of the ladder. All the materials are on the net. You know this is a science. It has an exact application. This has worked. What the fuck man is this but another simple cook book and yet…there you are speculating. It will never get easier than this. If you can’t go on forward now then, look forward to being a damned cell or something. All the complexity is gone, here in the freezone. All the expence is here in the freezone. All the tech terminals you have here, you know what, if you are still bitching..well, adios. Be a cell, you know shrimp one day in my fish tank or something, now go on!.

ToBe


For more information on services in the Freezone,
mail me, Terril Park, at basic2basic@yahoo.com


To find out more about us and to join our
forums see our websites at :-

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

http://internationalfreezone.net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its use.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...213741&q=begin

For those who are quite new to the subjects of
Dianetics and Scientology, we have a forum where
your questions can be answered, and there is a minimum
of the quite extensive specialised terminology of
these subjects. The forum website also has a couple of
dictionaries of scientology terms.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freezone101

Here is a public forum set up by rebel OT VIII Geir Isene.

http://www.scnforum.org

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look soon.

[Dulloldfart]

Claire, there's the Freezone and the Free Space Zone (Free Zone). The Free Space Zone are the CBR Galactic Patrol guys. I think you have them mixed up. I used to confuse them until I hit on the idea of calling the CBR ones (Free Zone) the Free Space Zone — easy to remember that way. :)

Paul


Interesting. I did know about the RO crowd but never heard the addendum of the word "space" in there. This is the first time. Though I must say that is awfully descriptive since they do seem to be awfully space opera centric.

It was my idea to call them the Free Space Zone. I doubt if they will adopt it.

Paul

[Voltaire's Child]

It was my idea to call them the Free Space Zone. I doubt if they will adopt it.

Paul

LOL!

[Voltaire's Child]

Oh yes it has. It is the quintessential Falooofaalafi.
(Thats Fluffy in Samoan).
It's "Who you really are as a person". It's what is left when you have finished auditing out your "case" with that goddamn squirrel tech which you and your squirrels mates use.
It's what you find after you do OT 8 and find out what you are not.
It's what is at the core of the perfect balance between attack and defend in ALL your posts. They all have it: explicitly or implicitly. That's why I worried all day about how rude I was shouting at you on the board, but I return to find you graciously composed, unfazed, because I have
pointed at what is.
Olska's post complements mine.
Just give a fricken big smile, like the "Freewinds" completions, and say "Wow....just wow...I'm so like blown out" and cough up 300 000 smackers to Olska and me for being genius enough and benevolent enough to share our great wisdom with you.

You quoted a post from another thread.

And, no, I don't see any genius. Just ad hom attacks by a couple of people who seemed to be looking for the opportunity.

Now, as I told Olska, for every person like you and her and KV, I have several more telling me I'm doing great. So who'm I gonna listen to? Someone who posts a bunch of ad hom stuff and comes in on thread after thread screaming at me or...?

You'll never ever guess.

I know you'd like to see me taken down a peg...or two...or ten thousand. ..but, well, :kma:

[Voltaire's Child]

Brilliant:


Glorious; magnificent: the brilliant court life at Versailles.

Superb; wonderful: The soloist gave a brilliant performance.

Marked by unusual and impressive intellectual acuteness: a brilliant mind; a brilliant solution to the problem. See Synonyms at intelligent.


Notes:

No, this new FZ site does not meet any of these criteria.

The FZ trots out, for the most part, LconH doctrines, rituals, various techniques, etc. Some of it is interesting and or useful...

But hardly 'Brilliant'.

It does have some stuff by critics, though. I think that's a point in its favor.

I suspect that (and this is not sarcasm or a poke at anyone) one person's brilliant is another person's "meh". Personally, I tend to gravitate more toward critical websites like Through the Door which I think is excellent. But I'm happy that there're FZ ones, too.

[Terril park]

It was my idea to call them the Free Space Zone. I doubt if they will adopt it.

Paul

By the way Paul, this site links to at least one of your sites.

[Dulloldfart]

By the way Paul, this site links to at least one of your sites.

Yes, thank you. FZGlobal from when I was a freezoner.

Paul

[Roan]

Could someone clarify the difference between the Freezone and the Independent Field? Are they the same, different, or what? Thanks.
The Independent Field tends to be a bigger umbrella to include technologies that have evolved far enough beyond Dianetics and Scientology to be actually distinct disciplines (Idenics, etc.).

Freezone is more of groups who still cling to the mirage of an idea that "Scientology would be just peachy keen if only corrupt management (and mean people) were eliminated from the equation."
This has long been Fluffy's viewpoint, as she has expended millions of keystrokes over the years basically articulating what I just did in less than twenty words.
These people seem unable or unwilling to confront the fact that Dianetics and Scientology were born out of diabolical, very dark beliefs and practices wholly embraced by Satanists like Alister Crowley, Jack Parsons and the red-haired, green eyed Beelzebub himself L. Ron Hubbard.

The groups are the same to the degree they practice orthodox Scientology outside the actual management structure of Co$, RTC, CST, etc. In this respect, both Freezone and Independent Fields are like a kind of methadone... helping Scientology addicts transition back into the (clean/sober) WOG world.

Hope this helps.

[Dulloldfart]

The Independent Field tends to be a bigger umbrella to include technologies that have evolved far enough beyond Dianetics and Scientology to be actually distinct disciplines (Idenics, etc.).

. . .

The groups are the same to the degree they practice orthodox Scientology outside the actual management structure of Co$, RTC, CST, etc. In this respect, both Freezone and Independent Fields are like a kind of methadone... helping Scientology addicts transition back into the (clean/sober) WOG world.

"[T]o the degree that. . . ." Quite. The IndiFi guys don't usually practise orthodox Scn at all, for the reason you gave in the first paragraph, i.e., it is antiquated and there is better tech available.

Paul

[degraded being]

You quoted a post from another thread.

And, no, I don't see any genius. Just ad hom attacks by a couple of people who seemed to be looking for the opportunity.

Now, as I told Olska, for every person like you and her and KV, I have several more telling me I'm doing great. So who'm I gonna listen to? Someone who posts a bunch of ad hom stuff and comes in on thread after thread screaming at me or...?

You'll never ever guess.

I know you'd like to see me taken down a peg...or two...or ten thousand. ..but, well, :kma:

Dream on.

[Veda]

Thank you, Veda!
I used them all.

Yes, and it looks great.

You cover a lot of territory and present many views and much information.

I know of no other similar site that features these David Mayo items. They, plus the more commonly presented Mayo videos (from an earlier period) make for a comprehensive presentation.

A breath of fresh air. :)

[KnightVision]

-snip-

I know you'd like to see me taken down a peg...or two...or ten thousand. ..but, well, :kma:

Horseshit.

Self deceived commentary. Envisioning enemies out of what is nothing more than another's expressed thoughts.


'We only see attacks from those who have crimes'.

A commentary of rehashed misguided perception and illusionary paranoia which are born out of one's own mistreatment of others coupled with the compulsion to redirect the 'spotlight' *over there*. An LconH fabrication.

[KnightVision]

-snip-

A breath of fresh air. :)

Quite so! :clap:

[thefiredragon]

Brilliant new Freezone Website.

http://freezone-tech.info/

http://www.scnforum.org

Thanks for the info.

[Ralph Hilton]

I've created a web based Independent Scientology forum at
http://scn.freetzi.com/forum/
It is a place for Independent Scientologists to communicate without the yap yap from those who seek to derail conversations here.
I've also recreated my personal website at http://www.ralphhilton.org/ using Joomla.
To keep OT data separate I have also created a site just for OT data (not CofS copyrighted) at http://scn.biz.nf/ .

[I told you I was trouble]

I've created a web based Independent Scientology forum at
http://scn.freetzi.com/forum/
It is a place for Independent Scientologists to communicate without the yap yap from those who seek to derail conversations here.
I've also recreated my personal website at http://www.ralphhilton.org/ using Joomla.
To keep OT data separate I have also created a site just for OT data (not CofS copyrighted) at http://scn.biz.nf/ .


That would be the 'yap yap' from the EX scientologists on this EX scientology message board would it?

Thought so.

I wonder why so many scientologists have such incredible arrogance, it is seriously repugnant.

[Ralph Hilton]

That would be the 'yap yap' from the EX scientologists on this EX scientology message board would it?
Thought so.
I wonder why so many scientologists have such incredible arrogance, it is seriously repugnant.
An ex-scientologist is defined in the board faq as
"Who is considered an "Ex Scientologist"?
Anyone who has broken free of the restraints of the Official Church of Scientology and is "allowed" to read & post to the internet."
Some people here, in their arrogance, choose to repeatedly derail threads in the Independent Scientolgy and Freezone sections of the board with their yap yap as you have just demonstrated. My board clearly states its purpose.

[I told you I was trouble]

An ex-scientologist is defined in the board faq as
"Who is considered an "Ex Scientologist"?
Anyone who has broken free of the restraints of the Official Church of Scientology and is "allowed" to read & post to the internet."
Some people here, in their arrogance, choose to repeatedly derail threads in the Independent Scientolgy and Freezone sections of the board with their yap yap as you have just demonstrated. My board clearly states its purpose.

Fair enough.

Good luck with your new board.

:eyeroll:

[lionheart]

Or one for people whose particular personal ology involves sniping at those who are up front and candid about their continuing interest in Scn, often derailing threads, posting personalized commentary and such. Oh wait, there is a label. But I can't post it due to the rules of conduct here.

I do wonder why those folks are so personally invested in this witch hunting, though. Is it a matter of personal insecurity or what?


I wonder why it's a problem for some of you that I responded to a rather acerbic mean little post with a defence of Terril.




Would that be before or after KnightVision came in, misrepresented something on another thread, claimed I was in need of parenting, made much of the word "bitch" in my sigline and I responded to this attack?

By the way, I reported his post and I'm reporting yours.




I didn't confess anything.




Well, you're the one who came in here and wrote all this ad hominem shit about me. I wasn't thinking of you or talking to or about you. So you're going to have a rather tough time making the case that I follow you around and pick on you. I responded to an ad hom post by KnightVision in which he made much of the word bitch in my sigline, said I should change and all this, and that Emma claimed I needed parenting (she did not) and that Em's thread was about me (it was about 4 people and only pertained to "old feuds" and not to any contributor's entire posting career). That was all personalized garbage and if you think I'm not going to defend myself, then you've got another think coming.

Roan was the one who wrote the first post denigrating someone- in this case, Terril. My defense of Terril is not an act of bullying.

I wrote what I wrote because I thought- no, I knew- that Roan came in to the FZ section of the board, wherein a post about an FZ site was written (which contained accolades for that site) and made a nasty comment. Had he not done that, I'd not have defended Terril. I responded to a post I found distasteful. I don't care who wrote it or what had been posted any other time by that person. Frankly, the two previous exchanges (not on ESMB but not too long ago) I had with Roan had been quite pleasant and I'd appreciated that very much. So no vendetta here.

You really should stop taking the trouble to post so much personalized crap about me. Anyone can see which one of we two contributors initiated this exchange, among others. I find it quite odd that you interpret someone standing up for herself and for her friends to be bullying yet your own personalized commentary is somehow just fine. I can only assume (not being sarcastic) that you consider that you and certain others are correct and this being the case, that anything I do to rebut or demur is morally and ethically wrong. Sort of like DM rebutting people who are making correct and negative assertions. However, the personalized bullshit posted herein only shows that you are carrying out both a vendetta and an old feud. Now what do they call that-- oh yes, the end justifies the means. IIRC, (I'm reading Trotsky's book about him now) Stalin and others used to use that same justification for their many murders of innocent people. Or brutal police who've set people up so that they'd fight back or even just ask what's going on, then press charges for "resisting arrest".

Dear Olska, I will close this by saying that for every person who talks to me the way you've done, KnightVision's done, and DB has done, there are several more who tell me I'm doing great. So why the hell would I listen to this bitter axe grinding from people who come in scream at me then accuse ME of bullying because I respond? Given the quality (and quantity, frankly) of these sorts of posts, I would be much aggrieved, sad, and experience great mental angst, anguish, self doubt and a true Dark Teatime of the Soul if you or anyone of the others so doing were to actually approve of me. Because then I'd truly know I was fucking up, big time.

Thanks for throwing yourself at me again. It was vastly entertaining and I feel very self validated.

:kma:


You quoted a post from another thread.

And, no, I don't see any genius. Just ad hom attacks by a couple of people who seemed to be looking for the opportunity.

Now, as I told Olska, for every person like you and her and KV, I have several more telling me I'm doing great. So who'm I gonna listen to? Someone who posts a bunch of ad hom stuff and comes in on thread after thread screaming at me or...?

You'll never ever guess.

I know you'd like to see me taken down a peg...or two...or ten thousand. ..but, well, :kma:

It is interesting to observe someone who "is no longer a scientologist" asiduously using LRH PR tech, including his black, hidden PR tech to bash people who don't agree with her.

Terril used Scn PR tech to open this thread in a fairly clean way, using scn, positive or public PR tech. Criticism was met with covert use of the negative or hidden black PR tech by someone who "is no longer a scientologist". This thread is all about Ron's PR tech.

We'll see the same CofS PR tech used in reply to this post, oh yes we will! :yes: Those who know the PR tech, will see it used to bash me on this thread now.

Always attack, never defend, accuse the accuser of that which they accuse, hint at crimes or overts, etc. We saw the CofS use it in the SP Times. We see it used on this thread and it will be used again now in response to this post. The scientology dupes who have been programmed by Ron into being haters, use "hate" as an accusation, because the poor lost souls know only hate and enemy conditons, due to Hubbard's slave implant. It is very sad. :bigcry:

The PR tech will of necessity be used because it "works", so therefore must be used, because whatever happens one must keep scientology working. So scientologists have to use the PR tech, even when they say they are "no longer a scientologist". Simple!

I think I'll pop over to this new FZ website to see if it includes detailed exposure of Ron's PR tech which he callously used to attempt to "destroy" his "enemies" and "smash his name into history".

[Voltaire's Child]

I've never studied LRH pr tech, nor have I done any critic handling or dissem drills. Anything I'm doing is just me as an individual which means it's exactly the way I'd phrase things if I'd never been in the cult.

Much of the text you quoted is my defending myself to people who'd written various things to/about me. So it's obviously not a case of never defend, always attack. You've got it backwards. It also appears that a number of the posts you quoted were from other threads. It's a pastiche of things I've written and it's ad hom.

HTH.

I'm done with this phase of the discussion. If you'd like to discuss Marty or the new FZ website or if you've questions about commentary I've posted, I'm certainly willing to look at and possibly reply to such posts.

[lionheart]

I've never studied LRH pr tech, nor have I done any critic handling or dissem drills. Anything I'm doing is just me as an individual which means it's exactly the way I'd phrase things if I'd never been in the cult.

Much of the text you quoted is my defending myself to people who'd written various things to/about me. So it's obviously not a case of never defend, always attack. You've got it backwards. It also appears that a number of the posts you quoted were from other threads. It's a pastiche of things I've written and it's ad hom.

HTH.

I'm done with this phase of the discussion. If you'd like to discuss Marty or the new FZ website or if you've questions about commentary I've posted, I'm certainly willing to look at and possibly reply to such posts.


Nope. All three of your posts that I quoted above, are unedited, direct and complete posts from you ON THIS THREAD!

So your assertion that "It also appears that a number of the posts you quoted were from other threads. It's a pastiche of things I've written" is simply untrue! Heck, all you had to do was click the links to verify that the quotes were complete, unedited posts that YOU posted on this thread! :duh:

If you want to be believed, you should be careful not to disperse the discussion with untrue assertions.

So you tell us you have never studied LRH PR tech. If you are to believed, then one must assume that you are a natural, intuitive scientologist who uses scn tech without realising it. Bit of a stretch of credulity! But not impossible, I suppose.

Here we have a PR thread using scn PR tech to promote the FZ and we see you using black PR tech, unknowingly, according to you, to attempt to silence FZ criticism. Coincidence.

Like the coincidence that a couple of days after you announce you are "no longer a scientologist", you set to work on another forum with a known CofS scientologist who is lying about his true identity and with another known defender of the CofS on many public internet places whenever the CofS or Hubbard is attacked.

Could be a coincidence.

But, as you are "no longer a scientologist" I suggest you take the time to familiarise yourself with aspects of the tech that you say you have never studied. That way you can stop behaving like a scientologist, by educating yourself and truly become someone who is no longer a scientologist.

Personally, I operate on the basis that if it clucks like a chicken then it is almost certainly a chicken.

I ask myself why someone who is no longer a scientologist would defend the FZ and attack critics? Why would someone who wasn't a scientologist care about defending scientology?

[Voltaire's Child]

Ok, I did not recall which thread they were on. So cool, thanks.

I've no problem with criticism of the FZ. I've criticized it myself. I haven't tried to silence anyone. Not that I could silence anyone even if I wanted to- but it's a non issue since I really don't have a problem with it. Tell you what. If you want to send me an essay about the FZ (critical of the FZ or whatever else it might say) I'll put it up on my website as a guest editorial. While I do think that the FZ has a right to exist and while I do have good friends involved in it, I by no means think it's not worthy of criticism or is without flaws and even if I did think it was without flaws, I'd still champion the rights of people to criticize it.

If Terril wants to talk about an FZ website in the FZ section of the board, I've no problem with it. If tomorrow, Emma took away the FZ section of the board and changed the rules of conduct so that such things were no longer allowed, I'd smile and say "I understand. it's your board." But until she actually does that, well, Terril's post is in the applicable section of the board. Doesn't mean people can't comment negatively - of course they can. But anyone who actually has an issue with Terril posting such a thing here is missing the boat.

I go to bat for critics of Scn on other forums and I did so to an OSA bot sent to handle me lo these many years ago. If you really have looked at my stuff on other fora, you'd probably have seen such posts.


Like the coincidence that a couple of days after you announce you are "no longer a scientologist", you set to work on another forum with a known CofS scientologist who is lying about his true identity and with another known defender of the CofS on many public internet places whenever the CofS or Hubbard is attacked.

I have no idea what that means. What forum? Do you mean scnforum.org??Who was lying about his identity? I really don't know who or what that even means.

As to the no longer a Scn'ist thing, it's something that was coming for a while. I talked to two critics about it (before hand), actually, one of whom posts here and one of whom does not but has been around critical venues for years. It was a very deep, special, intense and even gut wrenching decision. In fact, I mentioned on my Facebook page that I didn't know if I could handle it and I know that at least one person saw it. I really don't appreciate your belittling it. I have no motives that I have not posted about. Ever. Never did, never will. I don't lie to the forums, I don't have any agenda not discussed. Period. You've written so much about me, gone to so much trouble. So in your research or whatever it was, ever have occasion to ask yourself why I've always posted or alluded to my full name, my location, my industry, my husband, where I'm from, who my friends are and critics I've met in the flesh? It's a WYSIWYG thing. I don't use anonymizers or proxies. There was a time when it would have spared me a lot of shit from CofS but I never wanted to be anything but open and above board. So the only conspiracies concerning me are ones people invent out of whole cloth.

Now, back to scnforum.org as I assume this is the forum to which you refer, though I honestly have no idea about whatever person is doing whatever it was with his or her identity. Scnforum.org is a forum run by Geir Isene, an OTVIII who publicly left the church and who went public with his Doubt and later Liability formulae. It was a bit of a black eye for CofS. His blog got a lot of traffic so he decided to create a message board. Unlike some other pro Scn fora, he allows criticism though no OT type stuff. He asked me to a be a moderator. It happened to cross with my own personal epiphany. That happens in life. I also lost 3 pounds that week- is that a conspiracy, too? I also strained my left foot working out that week- is that a coincidence or part of another conspiracy? My point is that things sometimes happen at the same time. I had no idea I'd get that invitation and I was happy to get it. I'm having a good time moderating that forum. I've learned a lot. I moderated- very briefly- a Scn EZ board forum years ago with a critic named Raptavio. This one's a bit different and it's a good experience for me.

And why you think it would matter to an FZ thread or the existence of the FZ or how naughty is the FZ or how nice is the FZ- I can't tell, but I didn't get half the stuff you said about that, anyway.



But, as you are "no longer a scientologist" I suggest you take the time to familiarise yourself with aspects of the tech that you say you have never studied. That way you can stop behaving like a scientologist, by educating yourself and truly become someone who is no longer a scientologist.

Already did that.

I like myself just fine. My friends and my husband say I'm a good person. I'm well liked at work. I send money to people who are in trouble. I like the way I act and I was probably influenced by critics I met on a.r.s. as much, if not more, than I ever was by anything in Scn.

When I was 11, at the end of the year in school, we were called to the library for a special event where they gave out these made up awards - you know how they do with kids. So we were all walking to our seats and there was a stepstool in the way. All the kids walked around it but I walked up and over it. It was a STEPSTOOL, not a piece of Hepplewhite antique furniture. The teacher in a rage made me stand in the corner for the duration of the event. So at one point she gave me my little made up award- a bookmark. I ripped it up. Then she said "You can sit down if you wish" and I refused.
I sure as fuck wasn't a Scn'ist then. Just hated caprice and unfairness.

Another time I found some asshole with his arm just fucking BURIED in my purse (I was standing in a crowd of people waiting for a bus) and I yanked his arm out, slapped his little hand, and screamed that he was a thief. Boy, was he pissed. I believe his words were "no reason to make a federal case out of it."

One time I was walking and some guy came up to me and said his eyes hurt and he needed me to get in the car with him and go with him to get new contact lens fluid. My response? I whipped out a bottle of contact lens fluid and said, here you go. He said, oh it's not the right kind and could you go with me? I then asked him rather impolitely if he thought I just fell off the turnip truck.

So, no, I'm just me. I already told you I didn't study anything like that critic handling PR DA stuff in Cofs. This is just me. And I'm not giving it up. It works and it's actually saved me from rape and murder. (and not just the stories above, either. There're a couple other times, etc. People who are nice to me don't garner those sorts of responses. I'm known at work and among friends for recommending books, lending things out, bailing people out, providing a shoulder to cry on, etc. But then again, those people weren't trying to bitch me out over some imaginary conspiracy they made up, either.


Seriously, if you want to send me a guest editorial, I will put it on my website. I know of no other way to show you that I can put my metaphorical money where my mouth/keyboard is.

And if you could let me know about whatever that guy or gal is who's lying about his or her identity, how the hell I'm supposed to have known about it, and how it even supposedly affects me, I would greatly appreciate it.

[lionheart]

As it is off-topic, I've answered your question about moderators here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=369942&postcount=297

Otherwise, thanks for your polite reply. Am I the only one to notice a different tone to your reply above compared to your normally more abrasive replies?

I applaud your response to my challenge that you would inevitably use Scn PR tech in your reply. Of course I put you in a somewhat no-win situation.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in writing an essay on the FZ.

I have no problem with Terril using Scn positive PR tech in this thread, I never said I did so your comments about that are a red herring.

Real name usage cuts no ice with me. It proves or disproves nothing. You bring up the idea that use of real name implies that it proves you are not working for the CofS, you often do so, so I'll address that in general terms rather than specifics alluding to yourself.

The CofS PR ops have always used two types of agents. Those with false assumed or anonymous identies and those using their real names. This is described well in Nancy Many's book where she went into the Mayo clinic using her real identity while acting undercover for the CofS.

Also for plausible deniabilty reasons the ops are often not privvy to who the other operatives are (again see Nancy's book for a description of this).

I personally use anonimity as a protection against the criminal cult. OSA know who I am, my real name, etc. They have run their fair game attempt to "destroy" me "utterly". But ESMBers do not know who I am or anything about me really. Therefore if any personal data is ever referred to about me, then I know OSA is behind it.

When I first left the cult I was spied upon by a named friend who was covertly working for the cult in a similar way to Nancy Many. It is a very common cult tactic. So real name/false name indicates nothing to me.

You didn't address my question as to why someone who is no longer a scientologist would feel moved to defend scientology or attack critics. A few times would be understandable for freedom of speech reasons, but you seem somewhat didicated to doing this more than one would expect from someone who is no longer a scientologist. And why would someone who is no longer a scientologist want to use scientology tactics like accusations of "bullying", accusing the accuser of that which they accuse and derailing threads that are critical of the cult and its founder?

These tactics were all used by the criminal cult in the SP Times saga, for example. Why would you mimick these scientolgy tech tactics?

You've said you have made yourself familiar with the Scn PR tech including the Black Pr tech, so you should be able to avoid using that tech and mimicking the Scn cult goons in their use of it. I just happened to see your use of it in this thread, so called you on it.

Good luck in your journey as a "no longer a scientologist".

[Voltaire's Child]

L,

I tend to be "abrasive" if people seem to be giving me a hard time as shown in the IRL examples above. Some of the things said to/about me have been pretty...ummm...dramatic and strongly worded and definitely not appreciated by yours truly. I'm trying to be patient with this particular situation, that's all.

The thing about the FZ essay thingie was to try to show you that I don't oppose criticism of that movement/venue. I've noticed that in the past when I tell people who feel I want to quash criticism that I don't feel that way that I'm often not believed. The only thing I could think of was to see if there was something I could do that was an action. But whatever you want to do is fine.

I don't know who on scnforum.org is doing lying about his or her identity and how they could be well known if so. I just don't get it. At all.


You didn't address my question as to why someone who is no longer a scientologist would feel moved to defend scientology or attack critics. A few times would be understandable for freedom of speech reasons, but you seem somewhat didicated to doing this more than one would expect from someone who is no longer a scientologist. And why would someone who is no longer a scientologist want to use scientology tactics like accusations of "bullying", accusing the accuser of that which they accuse and derailing threads that are critical of the cult and its founder?

I'm in favor of freedom of speech, worship, ideology, etc. I do decry anything I think is abusive in practice and I do criticize beliefs I think are utter crap. I don't recommend that anyone engage in the crap ones but I feel I can relate to those who cling to them though I feel they aren't taking responsibility enough and aren't examining them enough. I feel a bit less patient with them than I used to be but I remember very well what it was like to be them. I also watch "Big Love" (HBO Show about a fictional LDS family) and even as wrongheaded as I think THOSE beliefs are, those people have my empathy. So that's how I am.

I don't attack anyone who has not attacked me. In fact, in my case, it's defend, not attack. HTH. I can't tell you how many people who used to slam me on the internet have phoned or written me to apologize. I was nice to all of 'em, too, when they did that. Up to that point? Not so much. It's like that bitch teacher I had in the 6th grade.

As far as allegations of "bullying" goes, well, if someone- often in concert with others-writes certain things about me personally that are extremely negative and does it a lot, I really don't know what the hell else any sane person would call it. Balloons? Cheese? Foma and granfalloons?




These tactics were all used by the criminal cult in the SP Times saga, for example. Why would you mimick these scientolgy tech tactics?

I don't.


You've said you have made yourself familiar with the Scn PR tech including the Black Pr tech,

No, I did NOT. I said the opposite.



so you should be able to avoid using that tech and mimicking the Scn cult goons in their use of it. I just happened to see your use of it in this thread, so called you on it.

I do not use that tech. See my previous posts. You might want to look at history, current events and non Scn (like political mebbe) fora and you'll see that a lot of people say and do a lot of things when they are not happy about being attacked. And you'll also see many examples of "tactics" that you'll have probably noticed in re CofS. Hardly unique.


Good luck in your journey as a "no longer a scientologist".

I know we're (almost) getting along and all but I'm gonna tell you what I told CofS when I was in and also when I was in the process of leaving though you may not be pleased... I'm not put on this earth to live up to anybody's expectations. I'm me. I like being me. I'm doing my own voyage of discovery which involves a lot of meditation and some "mundane" stuff like weight loss, career thingies, reading, whatnot. It's good. My critic friends think I'm doing great. The fact that a few people on this thread do not does not in any way give me pause. I have only to look at the way they've commented here and elsewhere to know that their commentary about me is worthless.

I like your sigline. letting go is HARD. It's an area on which I'm working with varying degrees of success. (because it's really really difficult) But it's advice we ALL could take- not just me.

[Mark A. Baker]

Always attack, never defend, accuse the accuser of that which they accuse, hint at crimes or overts, etc.

Which is precisely the chosen path of many of those on this board who are the most incessant, vicious, and vitriolic critics of the rights of freezone & independent scientologists to continue to practice scientology. :whistling:


Mark A. Baker

[Zinjifar]

There is no *right* not to be considered an ass and no right to have your fondly held delusions respected. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked is not being 'suppressed'.

If you want to believe nonsense and do so publicly, noone will stop you.

Zinj

[Mystic]

There is no *right* not to be considered an ass and no right to have your fondly held delusions respected. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked is not being 'suppressed'.

If you want to believe nonsense and do so publicly, noone will stop you.

Zinj

:hysterical:

[Veda]

Which is precisely the chosen path of many of those on this board who are the most incessant, vicious, and vitriolic critics of the rights of freezone & independent scientologists to continue to practice scientology. :whistling:



The Scientology that you practice includes deception and manipulation tech.

When this is noted, you complain of "vicious and vitriolic critics."

[Cat's Squirrel]

There is no *right* not to be considered an ass and no right to have your fondly held delusions respected. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked is not being 'suppressed'.

If you want to believe nonsense and do so publicly, no one will stop you.

Zinj

That may be the case, but how about facts that are true in your own experience but which you'd have trouble demonstrating to anyone else? I've been derided on here (no names no pack drill) purely for saying I've had positive experiences of auditing which have established its validity for me. Or been told I'm imagining it etc.

Why can't people respect each other's right to hold their own opinions based on experience?

[Zinjifar]

That may be the case, but how about facts that are true in your own experience but which you'd have trouble demonstrating to anyone else? I've been derided on here (no names no pack drill) purely for saying I've had positive experiences of auditing which have established its validity for me. Or been told I'm imagining it etc.

Why can't people respect each other's right to hold their own opinions based on experience?

Once you get used to being derided for having silly ideas you're free to have any ideas you want.

Zinj

[Voltaire's Child]

Once you get used to being derided for having silly ideas you're free to have any ideas you want.

Zinj

It's hardly a prerequisite though you seem to think so...:whistling:

[Voltaire's Child]

There is no *right* not to be considered an ass and no right to have your fondly held delusions respected. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked is not being 'suppressed'.

If you want to believe nonsense and do so publicly, noone will stop you.

Zinj

And there's no *right* to not be considered a fuckwitted bully, nitpicker or just all round jerk, either, though it appears that some may think so. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked by the recipient of such communication is not being suppressed.

[lionheart]

There is no *right* not to be considered an ass and no right to have your fondly held delusions respected. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked is not being 'suppressed'.

If you want to believe nonsense and do so publicly, noone will stop you.

Zinj


The Scientology that you practice includes deception and manipulation tech.

When this is noted, you complain of "vicious and vitriolic critics."


That may be the case, but how about facts that are true in your own experience but which you'd have trouble demonstrating to anyone else? I've been derided on here (no names no pack drill) purely for saying I've had positive experiences of auditing which have established its validity for me. Or been told I'm imagining it etc.

Why can't people respect each other's right to hold their own opinions based on experience?


Once you get used to being derided for having silly ideas you're free to have any ideas you want.

Zinj


And there's no *right* to not be considered a fuckwitted bully, nitpicker or just all round jerk, either, though it appears that some may think so. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked by the recipient of such communication is not being suppressed.

Hubbard indoctrinated us, as scientologists, to consider criticism and disagreement as "suppression" and an indicator of "hate", "bank", overts and suppressive characteristics.

In real life, "wogs" may or may or may not feel hurt by disagreement. Unfortunately they often do harbour resentment over criticism. But in interpersonal communication, generally there is actually no black and white, right or wrong, agreed upon in the "wog" world.

Old Ronnie capitalised on the hurt that disagreement can naturally cause, by labelling it as "suppressive" and making the critic wrong and the criticised right. It was one of the victim techniques that he used to make men his "slaves" as he set himself up as the explainer and solution for one's hurt. (PTS/SP tech and "reality"/"invalidation"). He converted complicated grey areas of interpersonal relationships to a simplistic polarity. Doing this, he was using his stable datum/confusion tech to control his slaves thinking and reactions.

Hubbard was a great believer in the confusion/stable datum tech, he just ommitted to point out to us how much he used it in a reverse black-tech way to replace our confusions with his simplistic ideas in order to control our thinking and behaviour and beliefs. The cunning sod!

Unfortunately Scn trained us to see things as very black or white, "theta" or "suppressive". This often takes some time to recover from. Criticism of scientology is a direct challenge to Hubbard's hypnotic brainwashing and an opportunity to let go of the simplistic dichotomous ideas he fixed in us. :)

Scientologists cannot help but see criticism as "hate", "bank" and "suppressive" because they are "stable datum" implanted scientologists. I was one once! :duh: Makes me feel very sorry for scientology dupes like Miscavige, Rathbun, Cruise and Travolta.

[Zinjifar]

And there's no *right* to not be considered a fuckwitted bully, nitpicker or just all round jerk, either, though it appears that some may think so. This forum and the internet is not an axe handle and being rejected, lampooned or mocked by the recipient of such communication is not being suppressed.

See? How hard was that?

Zinj

[Cat's Squirrel]

Hubbard indoctrinated us, as scientologists, to consider criticism and disagreement as "suppression" and an indicator of "hate", "bank", overts and suppressive characteristics.

In real life, "wogs" may or may or may not feel hurt by disagreement. Unfortunately they often do harbour resentment over criticism. But in interpersonal communication, generally there is actually no black and white, right or wrong, agreed upon in the "wog" world.

Old Ronnie capitalised on the hurt that disagreement can naturally cause, by labelling it as "suppressive" and making the critic wrong and the criticised right. It was one of the victim techniques that he used to make men his "slaves" as he set himself up as the explainer and solution for one's hurt. (PTS/SP tech and "reality"/"invalidation"). He converted complicated grey areas of interpersonal relationships to a simplistic polarity. Doing this, he was using his stable datum/confusion tech to control his slaves thinking and reactions.

Hubbard was a great believer in the confusion/stable datum tech, he just ommitted to point out to us how much he used it in a reverse black-tech way to replace our confusions with his simplistic ideas in order to control our thinking and behaviour and beliefs. The cunning sod!

Unfortunately Scn trained us to see things as very black or white, "theta" or "suppressive". This often takes some time to recover from. Criticism of scientology is a direct challenge to Hubbard's hypnotic brainwashing and an opportunity to let go of the simplistic dichotomous ideas he fixed in us. :)

Scientologists cannot help but see criticism as "hate", "bank" and "suppressive" because they are "stable datum" implanted scientologists. I was one once! :duh: Makes me feel very sorry for scientology dupes like Miscavige, Rathbun, Cruise and Travolta.

Sorry (since you're bringing me in to this), but that's cobblers. I've made it quite clear in my posts on ESMB that I have serious doubts about the OT levels - I've even quoted geologists who examined the OT3 "data" and said the sequence of events as laid down in the materials is impossible. So how does any of what you've said apply to me, or to Fluff either since she's also renounced her former status as a Scientologist?

Also, find anywhere in my posts where I've said that people who disagree with or oppose Scn are motivated by hate, by a desire to suppress or that they have overts. You won't find it anywhere, because that has never been my opinion.

What I'm protesting here is the exact opposite - it's the Scn in toto rejectors who are closed minded and think in black and white. They simply can't accept that if an auditing session leads to a big win (and I've been lucky enough to experience some like that) something good might have happened, and that at least some of that could be down to Ron's Tech (which of course plenty of other people had a hand in developing). Nope, the whole thing is a total crock of s**te and people like me who see some good in it are poor deluded fools who'll maybe wake up one day and can it all if we're lucky.

Sorry, but I'm not buying.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes, that's a huge generalization about "Scientologists" and I believe it's meant to include non CofS Scn'ists. However, as I've explained to Lionheart many times, it's not true of everyone. Mark Baker, Terril and many other non CofS Scn'ists I know have no problem with Scn criticism at all. I didn't either, when I was a Scn'ist. In fact, I made many friends amongst the critical community and did so long before ESMB was even a glint in Emma's eye. I'd never have been able to do that (and I was a Scn'ist then, first CofS, then FZ, then indie) had I felt that criticism of Scn was wrong or bad. I've talked to quite a few Free zoners and other Scn'ists about criticism of Scn. Some of the most scathing criticism I've heard about/against Scn came from some of those individuals, in fact.

So consider this: Lionheart has repeatedly expressed dismay about people answering back when attacked, then alleging that THOSE people are the ones doing the attacking. Anyone can see the comments that were initiated and how personalized and negative they are. They're right there. So evidently, those comments, in the minds of certain people are considered to be so truthful and objective, that the ad hom, personalized and rude aspects melt away like an ice cube on a hot sidewalk in August. Because they're ok. They're right. Those people needed to have that stuff said to them. So if those people say anything other than yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, then that person is attacking. Because that person is wrong and is resisting the corrections so generously offered by these other critics. (we're ALL critics on this forum) So it totally works out. It's not what's said, it's to whom it was said and did the bitch or bastard need a lesson and if they resist, well, it's like resisting arrest. Not allowed to do that.

It is rather self serving, isn't it. And then we add conspiracy charges, additional accusations and so on- but, hey, that's ok. That person needed it.

That's something criminals say when they're caught pursuant to their theft, mayhem, rapine, whatever - the bitch deserved it. Or like the guy with his hand in my purse "No reason to make a federal case out of it." And because I made a big deal of it, he said if he ever caught me walking around on some street where he was, he'd beat the crap out of me. Because, see, it was ok that he had his hand in my purse. He needed to do what was there and it was not ok to answer back.

[Voltaire's Child]

See? How hard was that?

Zinj

It's very easy to turn your words against you. I'm enjoying it immensely.