Past Lives

[Krysti]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

Yes, I would like to know how anyone can make it up the OT levels without recalling some of their past lives in full living color.

Many, many scientologists related to me their past lives, often just after a session.

[Div6]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

1. Yes

2. Some are mine, some are others.

[Leon]

I have huge recall of past lives, going back a long way.

Are they all "true"? Who cares - not me, that's for sure. But accepting them as such has been VERY useful, and I regard usefulness as being senior to Truth. All truth is contextual anyway.

It has been useful in the sense that huge amounts of present this lifetime difficulties and aberrations have been resolved for me.

So I acept it all as being "true".

[Bea Kiddo]

For the first 25 years of my life (because I really never went to school), I always thought Egypt, Italy and Greece were geographically next to each other. I mean, bordering on each other.

When I looked at a current globe, I found this to be very false. Very.

It was discouraging to me. I was very confused, because I was sure that they WERE geographically next to each other. I was POSITIVE.:confused2:

[Div6]

For the first 25 years of my life (because I really never went to school), I always thought Egypt, Italy and Greece were geographically next to each other. I mean, bordering on each other.

When I looked at a current globe, I found this to be very false. Very.

It was discouraging to me. I was very confused, because I was sure that they WERE geographically next to each other. I was POSITIVE.:confused2:

Hey, it's OK.....the world was flat then too. :D

[Terril park]

For the first 25 years of my life (because I really never went to school), I always thought Egypt, Italy and Greece were geographically next to each other. I mean, bordering on each other.

When I looked at a current globe, I found this to be very false. Very.

It was discouraging to me. I was very confused, because I was sure that they WERE geographically next to each other. I was POSITIVE.:confused2:

They are quite near each other in that by boat travel is easy.

Culturally there is great connection.

I have no recall on this but the atlas tells me that Italy to greece, and Sicily to africa could be done in a day more or less by boat.

Easier to travel to iether from southern italy than to northern italy
by horse or walking.

I hope this F/Ns for you. :)

[Bea Kiddo]

Hey, it's OK.....the world was flat then too. :D

Hey, but I found out they WERE, in ancient times. I saw it when I was in the SO on a map from encylopedia or something. I was looking for a map of it just now, but didnt find one yet.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Hey, but I found out they WERE, in ancient times. I was looking for a map of it, but didnt find one yet.

Yes, that clicks for me. I have a recall of Egypt and it looked different from the air than it does today.

[Zinjifar]

For the first 25 years of my life (because I really never went to school), I always thought Egypt, Italy and Greece were geographically next to each other. I mean, bordering on each other.

When I looked at a current globe, I found this to be very false. Very.

It was discouraging to me. I was very confused, because I was sure that they WERE geographically next to each other. I was POSITIVE.:confused2:

It's not that false. And, geo-politically-culturally speaking, it's even less false

Think of it as mediterranean cultures, and it's OK.

Zinj

[NonScio]

Anyone have recall on past life that was verifiable? Complete
with name and adress, date of birth/death etc in an era and
location where records were kept?

As for my self, I had lots of pictures which appeared to be past
life times, but these could just as well have been "dub ins",
pictures from movies etc.

[Bea Kiddo]

The only one I know of that I saw verification of is the daughter of Peter Sparshott. (The curly haired blonde one that was in RTC and get RPFed and got declared. I forget her name).

[Little Bear Victor]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

1) I could get whole stories of things that appeared to be past lives.

2) No, I have a good imagination, so they might have been completely imaginary. And they seemed to match my current personality. I never recalled something utterly unexpected that seemed real. Especially doubtful were incidents that resembled what I had read in History of Man, since they only "appeared" after reading the book.

Mind you, I believe in past lives. I'm just not convinced I recalled any of them in Scientology. I remember my dreams from this lifetime much more vividly than I recalled any "past life" experiences in session ever.

V

[Voltaire's Child]

I have some. They look right so I'm not worried about verifying them.

[namaste]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

Only once. That was during Method One word clearing. (Done on an e-meter -- find any misunderstood words on subjects like religion, law, math, science, etc.)


2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

I'd have to say that I am 90+% certain. Here's what happened:

If I recall correctly I was clearing a word and another word I didn't know came up in the definition so I had to look it up too.

The word was "decree".

We opened up another dictionary, found the word listed, and when I looked at it I started blowing down like crazy. (That's when something registers on the meter and charge comes off. You can feel this happening and I couldn't help but notice the word clearer casually reaching for the tone arm to get the needle back in range.)

Keep in mind that I had no clue what this word meant; it was not in my (current) vocabulary and I hadn't even looked at the definition yet. I just kept staring at the word itself and blowing down. (My first experience like this -- never had much auditing.) Something was happening.

Well it turns out that one of the definitions of decree is that of a judge's ruling (in a nutshell.)

I immediately felt some very strong emotion and started to get some mental pictures of waiting in the back of a covered wagon with some others that was parked outside of a courthouse. Sort of like you would see in an old western movie.

The emotions kept getting stronger and stronger. I was nearly in tears. I mean they got real strong. Just from this stupid word.

(Funny, I'm starting to re-experience them as I type this.)

I went ahead with the word clearing and got the word cleared and then the original word and so forth but the emotions never stopped coming.

That's what was real to me -- the emotions, not so much the mental pictures.

As I was feeling the emotions, I realized that I was not experincing them for the first time; I was re-experiencing them. I had felt them before. It's just something that I knew, that's all I can say about it.

I liked the feeling of being able to feel emotion to that degree. It was kind of fun.

As I was sitting there, I quickly scanned my whole "this lifetime" track to see when it was that I felt this emotion before.

It just wasn't there for this lifetime and somehow I knew that it went back further than the years since my birth. It was longer ago than that. So logic would lead me to conclude that it was in a previous life.

I have not been able to feel emotion like that this lifetime. I must have some sort of block on it. I just don't feel emotion to that level. Wish I did. Wish I could. :)

Anyway, after the session ended this incident kept rolling forward on it's own. (In real time it seemed.) Emotions were still coming and some vague pictures.

Eventually, I got a picture of myself in a saloon, sitting at a table, just chilling out, having a brew I guess, and listening to some music there. I was with a woman but I did not get a clear picture of what she looked like. All I know is that I was extremely grateful to be sitting there with her -- to be sitting there at all.

Such a feeling of calm, peace, clearness, and relief -- like you feel after a really traumatic experience -- right after it's over, but again, a feeling that I had certainally felt before.

That judge was ruling on whether I was to die or not! :omg:

Evidently I walked.

When I had walked home after the session one of my roomates noticed the state I was in and acknowledged it. He knew exactly what had happened. He asked me if this was the first time that I had had a session like that and I said that it was. He just sort of nodded, smiled, and said that he knew how I felt. He was a pretty cool guy.

The incident was still running along but kind of waning now and eventually everyday life took over again. But, wow, what an experience.

So, no I can't tell you the license plate number of the wagon, but I am as sure as I can be that something like that had happened. Mostly by the emotion tags.



Keith

[Pascal]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

You only live once. YOU never die.

[Krysti]

I have some. They look right so I'm not worried about verifying them.

Why wouldn't you *want* to try to verify them though? I'm thinking if I remembered who I was in a past life, it would be pretty interesting to do research and verify the memories... :confused2:

[Pascal]

Why wouldn't you *want* to try to verify them though? I'm thinking if I remembered who I was in a past life, it would be pretty interesting to do research and verify the memories... :confused2:

All trillion to the power of 5 of them?

[Div6]

Why wouldn't you *want* to try to verify them though? I'm thinking if I remembered who I was in a past life, it would be pretty interesting to do research and verify the memories... :confused2:

This was a "big thing" in the 50's....there were a number of "sensational" stories of people claiming and then searching for verification of past lives.

The past is gone....there is only NOW, and the creation of the future. While some PL's were extremely interesting, there is no way they can be verified as this is the wrong location as well as the wrong time. As for the ones on the Earth track, I have verified 2. There are a few more that I *may* look into further, but after a point you are really chasing your tail, as it really has no outside significance beyond yourself, and maybe a few others. Some people may consider it some sort of 'status' thing. It isn't. The whole point of death is that it is the agreed upon way of forgetting and starting over. Some people don't want to be reminded of that.

[Pascal]

This was a "big thing" in the 50's....there were a number of "sensational" stories of people claiming and then searching for verification of past lives.

The past is gone....there is only NOW, and the creation of the future. While some PL's were extremely interesting, there is no way they can be verified as this is the wrong location as well as the wrong time. As for the ones on the Earth track, I have verified 2. There are a few more that I *may* look into further, but after a point you are really chasing your tail, as it really has no outside significance beyond yourself, and maybe a few others. Some people may consider it some sort of 'status' thing. It isn't. The whole point of death is that it is the agreed upon way of forgetting and starting over. Some people don't want to be reminded of that.

Yeah, no point in finding out how stupid you were. Though streets named after you is cool.

[Entheta]

For myself, I find it is not possible to distinguish such memories from my own imagination, without some physical proof. So far, no one has offered any, so I must conclude that past life memories are purely fictional... how boring and materialistic of me, isn't it? But I'll go one further:

Where does one find one's memories? in the brain, no? Brain activity can be measured; specific areas of the brain are believed to be responsible for memory in that they show observed responses during recall, and further - damage to these areas of the brain will cause a person to lose memories. Injuries, diseases such as Alzheimer's, these things interfere with the memory, yes? well, why?

Every cell in your brain is made up of molecules you ate or your mother ate in this lifetime. Why then, would we remember anything in a past life? Unless you believe molecules, rather than cells, contain memories, then in order to remember things from a past life, memory would have to reside in some place other than the brain. In the spirit? in the soul? where? If that's the case, would one have to believe that a head injury damages this place, the soul, because there are many, many documented cases of memory loss due to head injuries, and due to Alzheimer's.

So while not arguing whether or not past lives exist, I would ask, why and by what mechanism would a person be able to recall those past lives ?

- N

[Voltaire's Child]

Why wouldn't you *want* to try to verify them though? I'm thinking if I remembered who I was in a past life, it would be pretty interesting to do research and verify the memories... :confused2:

Well, I guess I wasn't really worried about it. Another factor is that the recalls themselves are fragmented.

I mean, it's hard enough to remember everything I did a month ago, let alone what I did decades or centuries ago. So all old memories tend to get remembered in bits and pieces-this life or another.

I'd be hard put to prove that I had clams and corn on the cob at the East Coast SP party in August, too.

[Vinaire]

For myself, I find it is not possible to distinguish such memories from my own imagination, without some physical proof. So far, no one has offered any, so I must conclude that past life memories are purely fictional... how boring and materialistic of me, isn't it? But I'll go one further:

Where does one find one's memories? in the brain, no? Brain activity can be measured; specific areas of the brain are believed to be responsible for memory in that they show observed responses during recall, and further - damage to these areas of the brain will cause a person to lose memories. Injuries, diseases such as Alzheimer's, these things interfere with the memory, yes? well, why?

Every cell in your brain is made up of molecules you ate or your mother ate in this lifetime. Why then, would we remember anything in a past life? Unless you believe molecules, rather than cells, contain memories, then in order to remember things from a past life, memory would have to reside in some place other than the brain. In the spirit? in the soul? where? If that's the case, would one have to believe that a head injury damages this place, the soul, because there are many, many documented cases of memory loss due to head injuries, and due to Alzheimer's.

So while not arguing whether or not past lives exist, I would ask, why and by what mechanism would a person be able to recall those past lives ?

- N

What you are saying makes total sense from a Semitic viewpoint.

All past is imaginary because it exists only as images in our mind. Verification simply means getting an agreement with some other images, or with the present view of the MEST universe.

If a transmitter gets damaged then it is hard to transmit data through it. The transmitter is not necessarily the source of data.

.

[Pascal]

Actually if you are lucky you can find portraits of yourself and people look the pretty much the same life after life. Or if your awareness is high enough going places where you have been will turn your TA quite high also. :coolwink:

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I have some memories as vague impressions.

Am I certain they're mine? No.

[Pascal]

I have some memories as vague impressions.

Am I certain they're mine? No.

Better to believe in a false memory than to invalidate a true one me says.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Better to believe in a false memory than to invalidate a true one me says.

If I had access to an auditor that I trusted, yes, it may be worth investigating and seeing if these past "impressions" help blow some contemporary shit; but as my spiritual path is now a very different one to what it was, the past is not as important. I am not invalidating those "memories", I am just allowing for the fact that like everyone else who thinks they were Jesus, only one of them actually could have been.

[Pascal]

If I had access to an auditor that I trusted, yes, it may be worth investigating and seeing if these past "impressions" help blow some contemporary shit; but as my spiritual path is now a very different one to what it was, the past is not as important. I am not invalidating those "memories", I am just allowing for the fact that like everyone else who thinks they were Jesus, only one of them actually could have been.

True, if you have the bad luck of thinking your were "someone famous" you just might be crazy. But crazy people do not doubt themselves and if you really were Christ you would feel like shit to see what you have caused on this planet. Ron found Karl Marx in Australia I think and the guy felt like crap, even wrote him a sorry note and signed it like Karl Marx. :clap:

Like they say, "It's not because you are a megalomaniac that you are not God." or "It's not because you are paranoid that they aren't after you".

You can use Self-Analysis to shake up your recall, you'll hit whole track sooner or later. PAB 7 helps too. Handbook for preclear also... I never got formal auditing from an auditor and have had incredible wins, nothing like getting yourself up by your own bootstraps. And OSA has no PC folders from where to pull crap to bother me with. On Topix they resorted to lying despicably about me. Gorgeous.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I only used Jesus as an example. I have no access to any memories around that time in history. If what little I have dug up is to be believed, I was around during the Egyptian dynasty (which could be anything up to 10,000 years ago), and then was absent from the planet up until about 2-300 years ago. I have never accessed a non-Earth memory; but I had a PC who did.

[Pascal]

I only used Jesus as an example. I have no access to any memories around that time in history. If what little I have dug up is to be believed, I was around during the Egyptian dynasty (which could be anything up to 10,000 years ago), and then was absent from the planet up until about 2-300 years ago. I have never accessed a non-Earth memory; but I had a PC who did.

I got this picture of a angel type body in a cryogenic tube inside a space ship, like the one you see on the cover of the old 8-8008 book. Ron says these boys where 4th invader force, 5th battalion. They played God here and then rebelled and got messed up. That body sure was pretty, sigh...

[Leon]

I grew up (this LT) in a town which was established back in about 1670 or thereabouts. The original diary of the guy who founded it is still extant in some archive r other, and in it he states that he laid the town out on an island in the river which flows there. Now the curious thing is that in PT there is no island at all, and writers going back yonks have all puzzled over this statement of the founder's about the "island". There is no evident island there.

While on Solo auditing at one time I got an ability to just take a location and roll it back in history and see what was there - regardless of whether or not I had been there at the earlier time. [Anything anywhere within the mest universe is knowable to anyone] That night I was lying in bed playing with this ablity and I decided to look back at my old home toen.

Zoom it flashed to the earlier period and I saw clearly that indeed the town had been laid out on a island. The river had split at that time and had formed this island, about two miles long by about 400 yards wide, and the original main street was right on it.

With that perception I could look at the town in PT and see exactly where the "footprints" of the old tributary were. It all fitted perfectly. I have since been back there in the flesh and confirmed it all.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

That makes sense to me. You decided you could know it and you did.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Actually if you are lucky you can find portraits of yourself and people look the pretty much the same life after life. Or if your awareness is high enough going places where you have been will turn your TA quite high also. :coolwink:

Have you found any portraits of yourself from a past life?

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Anyone have recall on past life that was verifiable? Complete
with name and adress, date of birth/death etc in an era and
location where records were kept?

As for my self, I had lots of pictures which appeared to be past
life times, but these could just as well have been "dub ins",
pictures from movies etc.

I do and I will tell more about it later.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Yeah, no point in finding out how stupid you were. Though streets named after you is cool.

I think knowing something about past lives helps one to understand themselves better -- at least a step in that direction.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Have you found any portraits of yourself from a past life?

I have a family photo which includes my paternal grandmother as a youngster. One would swear it was my little sister.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I got this picture of a angel type body in a cryogenic tube inside a space ship, like the one you see on the cover of the old 8-8008 book. Ron says these boys where 4th invader force, 5th battalion. They played God here and then rebelled and got messed up. That body sure was pretty, sigh...

I have a similar body type picture -- long whitish blonde hair, pale skin, dark blue eyes, wings of course, very large wings. Very ethereal and very happy. I wish I knew more about that period of lives.

[Tanstaafl]

I grew up (this LT) in a town which was established back in about 1670 or thereabouts. The original diary of the guy who founded it is still extant in some archive r other, and in it he states that he laid the town out on an island in the river which flows there. Now the curious thing is that in PT there is no island at all, and writers going back yonks have all puzzled over this statement of the founder's about the "island". There is no evident island there.

While on Solo auditing at one time I got an ability to just take a location and roll it back in history and see what was there - regardless of whether or not I had been there at the earlier time. [Anything anywhere within the mest universe is knowable to anyone] That night I was lying in bed playing with this ablity and I decided to look back at my old home toen.

Zoom it flashed to the earlier period and I saw clearly that indeed the town had been laid out on a island. The river had split at that time and had formed this island, about two miles long by about 400 yards wide, and the original main street was right on it.

With that perception I could look at the town in PT and see exactly where the "footprints" of the old tributary were. It all fitted perfectly. I have since been back there in the flesh and confirmed it all.

Nice story. The ability you describe is mentioned on the PDC tapes IIRC.

[duddins]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?


1. I remember and in detail.

2. I was sure at the time I remembered them that they were my own memories. They were very detailed and emotional memories of a concentration camp. I could smell, and see the filth, feel the shame for wanting to do anything just to survive. I was a man...kind of a sell out. Nothing about me then that I could be particulary proud of.
I had other memories of lives that had been short lived, but I am certain I only skimmed the surface.
I am not sure how much remembering past lives has helped me. I know that at one time I was stuck in the past and I no longer carry that burden.
I am concerned more about now. I mean, whether or not I can create a positive effect on the people around me. I hardly ever think about the past lives I remember. Hell, I'm a high school Science teacher and a single mom with 4 kids. I'm so busy I hardly ever sit still long enough to think about the past at all. Don't ask me what i did yesterday! :D

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I had a good friend who was of German descent. He went to one of those 3-month language courses and emerged a fluent speaker, using words he had never been taught.

He asked his teacher about the name of a magazine he had seen in a dream. She came back later to tell him it was the magazine circulated through newstands to the SS.

While we were talking, he went track so I had to put my auditor's hat on and started making notes. The stuff we dug out was incredible, and he had no emotional attachment to any of it -- it was kill or be killed -- a choice that none of us would appreciate making.

[Pascal]

Have you found any portraits of yourself from a past life?

Yes. Apparently the thetan can mold the GE a lot. I also found a portrait of Miscavige, I'll post it soon enough. He has the same stupid and insensitive stare in his dull eyes.

[Pascal]

I think knowing something about past lives helps one to understand themselves better -- at least a step in that direction.

Yes, goals sometimes carry on many lives as in a spiral. Plus present ability is probably born from past endeavours, etc... Total recall of whole track is definately a worthy goal.

[Pascal]

I have a similar body type picture -- long whitish blonde hair, pale skin, dark blue eyes, wings of course, very large wings. Very ethereal and very happy. I wish I knew more about that period of lives.

Mine had dark hair, "Conan the Barbarian" muscular body with wings. Inside a cryogenic tube. Maybe a body in pawn or a space flight. Very aesthetic and space operish.

[Zinjifar]

Here's one

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc197/Zinjifar/twins01.jpg
Zinj

[Pascal]

Nice story. The ability you describe is mentioned on the PDC tapes IIRC.

I heard an OTVIII win about this ability. This OTVIII was pissed at the little wins he got on VIII compared to VII. Then one day while looking at a house outside his bedroom windows he was deluged with pictures of that house, who had lived there, where each atom of that house came from, etc... Truth revealed!

Quite godly an ability allright! :happydance:

I had a low tone mockery of this once. I was dating this hot chick and everytime she would go to the bathroom or out of my sight I'd imagine she'd get banged by busboys and tramps. LOL

[Tanstaafl]

I heard an OTVIII win about this ability. This OTVIII was pissed at the little wins he got on VIII compared to VII. Then one day while looking at a house outside his bedroom windows he was deluged with pictures of that house, who had lived there, where each atom of that house came from, etc... Truth revealed!

Quite godly an ability allright! :happydance:

I'll have some of that please.


I had a low tone mockery of this once. I was dating this hot chick and everytime she would go to the bathroom or out of my sight I'd imagine she'd get banged by busboys and tramps. LOL

Don't invalidate yourself - she probably did! :D

[Björkist]

I've had bits and pieces of recall regarding things earlier than this lifetime...in auditing (before I had read any Scientology books) I recalled something MUCH earlier and then later read a generalized outline of this incident in a book by LRH which I thought was rather interesting.

Shortly after discovering Scientology I listened to a few of Hubbard's lectures and knew full sentences of what he was going to say which, to me, implies that I have been around Scn prior to this lifetime...or maybe something else?

I haven't seen any portraits of myself yet from those times, but I was probably extremely ugly.

"The Boy Who Lived Before" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5cGSUBU8-w

His parents take him to a hilarious Psychologist and then to a Psychiatrist who helps him track down his memories in the relatievly nearby place he recalls.

[duddins]

I had a good friend who was of German descent. He went to one of those 3-month language courses and emerged a fluent speaker, using words he had never been taught.

He asked his teacher about the name of a magazine he had seen in a dream. She came back later to tell him it was the magazine circulated through newstands to the SS.

While we were talking, he went track so I had to put my auditor's hat on and started making notes. The stuff we dug out was incredible, and he had no emotional attachment to any of it -- it was kill or be killed -- a choice that none of us would appreciate making.

Wow. That is very interesting.

[Pascal]

Wow. That is very interesting.

LRH says that if the thetan has spoken a language before, he can learn it fast. But if his GE spoke it, he's gonna get problems as it gets upset at re-learning it and stuff. GE's are nuts anyways.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Mine had dark hair, "Conan the Barbarian" muscular body with wings. Inside a cryogenic tube. Maybe a body in pawn or a space flight. Very aesthetic and space operish.

Ah, yes, those were good times. I watched Conan the Barbarian 13 times so far. They just don't make many good bodies like that anymore! "Do you want to live forever?"

Yes, the flying thing still lingers with me.

I have a wholetrack buddy who recalls living on a planet where the sentient beings were half human and half horse, the top half being the human half. He said it felt very good and powerful to be running that body. I don't remember if he had wings or not.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I have a family photo which includes my paternal grandmother as a youngster. One would swear it was my little sister.

Right, I've had three people tell me that they are certain a newly born one is the return of some recently deceased relative.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

For myself, I find it is not possible to distinguish such memories from my own imagination, without some physical proof. So far, no one has offered any, so I must conclude that past life memories are purely fictional... how boring and materialistic of me, isn't it? But I'll go one further:

Where does one find one's memories? in the brain, no? Brain activity can be measured; specific areas of the brain are believed to be responsible for memory in that they show observed responses during recall, and further - damage to these areas of the brain will cause a person to lose memories. Injuries, diseases such as Alzheimer's, these things interfere with the memory, yes? well, why?

Every cell in your brain is made up of molecules you ate or your mother ate in this lifetime. Why then, would we remember anything in a past life? Unless you believe molecules, rather than cells, contain memories, then in order to remember things from a past life, memory would have to reside in some place other than the brain. In the spirit? in the soul? where? If that's the case, would one have to believe that a head injury damages this place, the soul, because there are many, many documented cases of memory loss due to head injuries, and due to Alzheimer's.

So while not arguing whether or not past lives exist, I would ask, why and by what mechanism would a person be able to recall those past lives ?

- N

I don't think it has to be recalled by a mechanism. A being has an innate ability to mock-up, and some, if not all, beings keep records of their experiences and access those records -- or don't access them. Beings seem to like pictures, whether they are "real" or not. Maybe all this living we are doing is just so we can make pictures and take ourselves to the movies. Who doesn't love a good GPM film? I love looking at other people's pictures too. It's great entertainment.

Accessing past lives is a learned discipline in large part. If you work with a facilitator for a while you will soon be able to do it on your own. It is like going to the gym and building up a weak muscle by lifting some weights.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I had a good friend who was of German descent. He went to one of those 3-month language courses and emerged a fluent speaker, using words he had never been taught.

He asked his teacher about the name of a magazine he had seen in a dream. She came back later to tell him it was the magazine circulated through newstands to the SS.

While we were talking, he went track so I had to put my auditor's hat on and started making notes. The stuff we dug out was incredible, and he had no emotional attachment to any of it -- it was kill or be killed -- a choice that none of us would appreciate making.

It's little things like that that confirm for me that people are not making stuff up. They are really getting it from somewhere. If this is a holographic universe they could be accessing it from what is anciently called the Akashic records.

I have run some people who lived in Germany during the war. Boy you really get a down and dirty nitty gritty history lesson when you run people that way.

[Voltaire's Child]

I had a recall of being alone in a very dark tiny hut, dirt floor, laboring all alone in childbirth and dying.

Later on, when I saw Braveheart, the way those little stone huts looked- I said to myself "that's exactly like the place I had."

Teeny teeny little places dug into a hillside. Basically just a place to sleep and sometimes eat.

[Alanzo]

The very first past life incident I ran was a birth in the 1920's.

They put my body in a very cold stainless steel parabolic-shaped bowl, and it really pissed me off. I couldn't figure out why they did that, or what the hell that was.

And then I was watching a movie set in that time period and saw one of those devices on the shelf of an operatory. It was a scale!

I don't know if watching movies is the best way to confirm past lives, but this one, at the time, was total proof for me.

[Pascal]

Ah, yes, those were good times. I watched Conan the Barbarian 13 times so far. They just don't make many good bodies like that anymore! "Do you want to live forever?"

Yes, the flying thing still lingers with me.

I have a wholetrack buddy who recalls living on a planet where the sentient beings were half human and half horse, the top half being the human half. He said it felt very good and powerful to be running that body. I don't remember if he had wings or not.

I heard of a guy who was half horse, his name was Mandingo. :p

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Here's one

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc197/Zinjifar/twins01.jpg
Zinj


I think he was Joseph Smith, Mormon leader. Look at his Dedex's.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I had a recall of being alone in a very dark tiny hut, dirt floor, laboring all alone in childbirth and dying.

Later on, when I saw Braveheart, the way those little stone huts looked- I said to myself "that's exactly like the place I had."

Teeny teeny little places dug into a hillside. Basically just a place to sleep and sometimes eat.

I couldn't watch that movie. Some GPM movies I know I better not watch if I want to stay happy.

[Voltaire's Child]

Gnosis,

I bet everybody has stuff that they don't like to watch for that reason. I remember a couple books that were beautifully written but that I found truly nauseating...so very upsetting.

And there're movies like that.

I enjoyed that one but for another person it would be different.

[Voltaire's Child]

The dying thing in the little hut was weird. I feel detached when I think of it, and it seems so real yet at the same time distant and unimportant...at least NOW it does...

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I heard of a guy who was half horse, his name was Mandingo. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandingo_(porn_star)

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Gnosis,

I bet everybody has stuff that they don't like to watch for that reason. I remember a couple books that were beautifully written but that I found truly nauseating...so very upsetting.

And there're movies like that.

I enjoyed that one but for another person it would be different.

Yes, I was watching Camelot with a friend and my friend got visibly ill, but I could see her start to remember and I had been hoping that the movie plus my presence beside her would jog her recall. It did, but it was also restimulative for her. No our shared past life was not in Camelot, but the games conditions and our positions were very similar.

[Alanzo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandingo_(porn_star) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandingo_%28porn_star%29)

Why did I read that whole thing?

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Why did I read that whole thing?

My apologies.

[Pascal]

Why did I read that whole thing?

You took all of it in?

You must have done the Primary RD, like DM did.

:p

[nexus100]

Why did I read that whole thing?

When an article has a title of "porn", one is always hoping.

[Alanzo]

When an article has a title of "porn", one is always hoping.

I guess that's true.

[Pascal]

I think he was Joseph Smith, Mormon leader. Look at his Dedex's.

http://www.adonde.com/presidentes/images/1822josedelamar.jpg

This portrait isn't that good. I'll try and take a photo of another one in a fortress here that is quite the carbon copy of today's ugly incarnation of DM.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Inquiry: What are dedexes?

[Alanzo]

Inquiry: What are dedexes?

Overts with no motivator that precedes them, from "A History of Man", I believe.

[Tanstaafl]

Overts with no motivator that precedes them, from "A History of Man", I believe.

No, that's a DED - DEserveD it.

A motivator that follows is then used by the person - they move it so it occured before the overt and thus it is justified as a motivator: DED EXplained. This balls up the track.

Cheers

tanstaafl

[Alanzo]

No, that's a DED - DEserveD it.

A motivator that follows is then used by the person - they move it so it occured before the overt and thus it is justified as a motivator: DED EXplained. This balls up the track.

Cheers

tanstaafl

Ooo.

Good one!

[Mick Wenlock]

Ooo.

Good one!


wow, one more HUbbard 'explanation' that turns out to be bollocks total.

[Alanzo]

wow, one more HUbbard 'explanation' that turns out to be bollocks total.

Ha!

What is a "B Routing" of a dispatch, Mick?

[Tanstaafl]

wow, one more HUbbard 'explanation' that turns out to be bollocks total.

Thanks for that, Mick. :)

[Björkist]

I always thought of Hubbard as being more of a (prior incarnation) Madame Blavatsky type than Cecil Rhodes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Petrovna_Blavatsky

Considering, of course, that one isn't solely a "beef terminal."

[Chipallina]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

For me being OT is decifering which part is real and which part is being mocked up, mocking stuff up is part of the reactive mind that even the OT levels can't rid a being of right away, being OT in my opinion knowing what really is real and what is being mocked up when recalling this type of stuff.

I've seen a guy go crazy in the SC convinced he was Jesus, how un-OT is that!

Love Chips

[Pascal]

For me being OT is decifering which part is real and which part is being mocked up, mocking stuff up is part of the reactive mind that even the OT levels can't rid a being of right away, being OT in my opinion knowing what really is real and what is being mocked up when recalling this type of stuff.

I've seen a guy go crazy in the SC convinced he was Jesus, how un-OT is that!

Love Chips

Don't have to go to the SC for that. Fact is, if he were Jesus, he'd probably feel pretty shitty about what he did and how his work turned up. And he'd head up to Rome to fix things. Actually if he really were Jesus, Christianity might just as-is and fold up. I've seen it happen.

[Jimmy Cricket]

For me being OT is decifering which part is real and which part is being mocked up, mocking stuff up is part of the reactive mind that even the OT levels can't rid a being of right away, being OT in my opinion knowing what really is real and what is being mocked up when recalling this type of stuff.

I've seen a guy go crazy in the SC convinced he was Jesus, how un-OT is that!

OT is a mocked-up state of being.

[Pascal]

OT is a mocked-up state of being.

Yep, lots of people here are mocking the state of OT. Then again, back in kindergarten many kids mocked grown ups too. The COS sows the seeds of it's own demise with the overt products it churns left right and center.

[Jimmy Cricket]

Yep, lots of people here are mocking the state of OT. Then again, back in kindergarten many kids mocked grown ups too. The COS sows the seeds of it's own demise with the overt products it churns left right and center.

I'm DED serious.

Please don't degrade my joking.

[Pascal]

I'm DED serious.

Please don't degrade my joking.

Ok, that was faintly amusing. But not enough to don the hat with 3 bells on it. :coolwink:

http://www.image911.net/images/3_joker_hat.jpg

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Don't have to go to the SC for that. Fact is, if he were Jesus, he'd probably feel pretty shitty about what he did and how his work turned up. And he'd head up to Rome to fix things. Actually if he really were Jesus, Christianity might just as-is and fold up. I've seen it happen.

The existing entity that once was Jesus is disappointed by the outcome of his work, but he knew it was the nature of man to "organize" and corrupt that which they are given. How he can "love" us given the way we treat each other is still beyond my comprehension.

[Pascal]

The existing entity that once was Jesus is disappointed by the outcome of his work, but he knew it was the nature of man to "organize" and corrupt that which they are given. How he can "love" us given the way we treat each other is still beyond my comprehension.

It's called MDMA. :p

[nexus100]

It's called MDMA. :p

Momma Digs My Ass?

[Mick Wenlock]

Ha!

What is a "B Routing" of a dispatch, Mick?

no idea

[Bea Kiddo]

no idea

B routing.

Its in Staff Status Two. I knew this one. Shoot. Rusty stupid mind!!!

It has to do with routing of despaches.

It's either having one copy of something, and sending it to a bunch of people with a via (so each signs and passes on to the next), or:

Its One copy to the main person it is going to, with cc's sent to the rest.

I do believe that the post titles that are involved are always the same.

Its from an issue from the Old SH days.

Paul probably remembers. Or Lulu.

[Mick Wenlock]

B routing.

Its in Staff Status Two. I knew this one. Shoot. Rusty stupid mind!!!

It has to do with routing of despaches.

It's either having one copy of something, and sending it to a bunch of people with a via (so each signs and passes on to the next), or:

Its One copy to the main person it is going to, with cc's sent to the rest.

I do believe that the post titles that are involved are always the same.

Its from an issue from the Old SH days.

Paul probably remembers. Or Lulu.


hey, nice memory.

I was just being polite for Alanzo - what I meant was "don't remember, don't care".

LOL

[Div6]

B routing.

Its in Staff Status Two. I knew this one. Shoot. Rusty stupid mind!!!

It has to do with routing of despaches.

It's either having one copy of something, and sending it to a bunch of people with a via (so each signs and passes on to the next), or:

Its One copy to the main person it is going to, with cc's sent to the rest.

I do believe that the post titles that are involved are always the same.

Its from an issue from the Old SH days.

Paul probably remembers. Or Lulu.


"The original goes to Ethics by drawing an arrow pointing to "Ethics"
and the carbon goes to the person or portion of the org being reported
on by channels (B routing)" is the simplest way to describe it....

So if you were writing a report on Mick, using B Routing it would go to:


Emma
Biker I/C
Mick

or something like that...hey, where is the org board in this place?

[Bea Kiddo]

"The original goes to Ethics by drawing an arrow pointing to "Ethics"
and the carbon goes to the person or portion of the org being reported
on by channels (B routing)" is the simplest way to describe it....

So if you were writing a report on Mick, using B Routing it would go to:


Emma
Biker I/C
Mick

or something like that...hey, where is the org board in this place?

The org board goes like this, its quite simple:

I am in charge.

Everyone else thinks THEY are.

Easy.

Got it?:D

(cept when there is trouble, then Emma can have it back...)

[Zinjifar]

The org board goes like this, its quite simple:

I am in charge.

Everyone else thinks THEY are.

Easy.

Got it?:D

(cept when there is trouble, then Emma can have it back...)

I don't think I'm I/C :omg:

I'm just an innocent bystander.

Zinj

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Overts with no motivator that precedes them, from "A History of Man", I believe.

LRH gives a great example of how a dedex works in the Philadelphia Lecture Course. He talks about how Jesse James could get away with all those murders until he finally ran out of "credits" and was finally murdered himself. LRH surmised that Jesse James had built up these credits by previously having been run over by others.

I still have my Get Out of Jail card.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

The dying thing in the little hut was weird. I feel detached when I think of it, and it seems so real yet at the same time distant and unimportant...at least NOW it does...

Yes I noticed that for the most part too. I guess there may still be some issues around it but not heavily charged. Besides, for me, looking at the death eases some of the somatics associated with the death.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Upon reading about joseph smith and the things that were done to him, which just might be the things you will find him now doing to others, with impunity too.

Here is a good side profile of joseph smith.


http://www.josephsmith.net/josephsmith/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=934f001cfb340010VgnVCM1000001f 5e340aRCRD

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I'm enjoying this thread. Does anyone else have any past life experiences they dare expose?

LRH claimed to have been Cecil Rhodes:

http://metaphysical.articlesarchive.net/cecil-rhodes-had-a-vision.html


http://www.stortfordhistory.co.uk/guide13/cecil_rhodes.html

[Tanstaafl]

I'm enjoying this thread. Does anyone else have any past life experiences they dare expose?

Do you want famous ones?

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Do you want famous ones?

I'll watch even a bad sci fi flick, and bad french flicks too!

I first met my current husband on a lonely planetoid....

[Leon]

Past life recall becomes pretty easy after a while. No big deal at all. You get to connect them all and see how lifetime after lifetime you did the same stupid things, dramatized the same way, pursued the same goal in different ways etc.

I have fairly good recall over the last 15 thousand or so years, before that I was in a military type prison for quite a while.

Main thing is to see the pattern. It really is just one life with different bodies and different languages and so on.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Past life recall becomes pretty easy after a while. No big deal at all. You get to connect them all and see how lifetime after lifetime you did the same stupid things, dramatized the same way, pursued the same goal in different ways etc.

I have fairly good recall over the last 15 thousand or so years, before that I was in a military type prison for quite a while.

Main thing is to see the pattern. It really is just one life with different bodies and different languages and so on.

Right, one gets a universal, timeless self-awareness. My earliest recall is "Markabian", i.e., looked like earth in the 50's, but I could not really date it. I could date back to about 25 million years, though it seemed like yesterday.

Leon, please entertain us with some of your past life recalls, thank you.

We should probably put a do not enter sign for those Cat People, right?

[alex]

I don't think I'm I/C :omg:

I'm just an innocent bystander.

Zinj

You're never innocent Zinjmeister.

Now report for clearing.

alex

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

You're never innocent Zinjmeister.

Now report for clearing.

alex

Zinzin do you have any past life adventures?

[namaste]

Well, this isn't exactly my own experience but I was doing false data stripping on a guy once at PAC and, I don't remember what the false datum was, but we got an incident from this lifetime where it came up.

Still read on the meter though and no change on the pc's indicators.

Got and earlier/similar this lifetime.

Still read on the meter and no change on the pc's indicators.

Got an earlier/similar from around 1864 or something. (This is a fairly young guy I'm doing the FDS on.)

Says he's sitting around a table with a bunch of "progressive looking" men and got the datum there.

F/N and VERY, VERY good indicators.

Ended off. He gets up smiling and shaking my hand and goes back to class.

I sensed that it was totally legit from the reactions.

[Pascal]

Well, this isn't exactly my own experience but I was doing false data stripping on a guy once at PAC and, I don't remember what the false datum was, but we got an incident from this lifetime where it came up.

Still read on the meter though and no change on the pc's indicators.

Got and earlier/similar this lifetime.

Still read on the meter and no change on the pc's indicators.

Got an earlier/similar from around 1864 or something. (This is a fairly young guy I'm doing the FDS on.)

Says he's sitting around a table with a bunch of "progressive looking" men and got the datum there.

F/N and VERY, VERY good indicators.

Ended off. He gets up smiling and shaking my hand and goes back to class.

I sensed that it was totally legit from the reactions.

Wow, I had something similar while counting my student points! I recalled being an accountant!

NOT!

How I miss ED INT saying "For a total of 40,675 student POOINTS!" at the Bday game events... Can't even speak English properly, some OT that boob.

[Leon]

Early on in Dianetic auditing - which was the first auditing one did back in 1970 - .....I had a somatic under my armpit, it would redden and swell up and then go away again. So we ran it with R3R down to a basic of where I was a steam locomotive on a track. I'd been standing idle and rusting away merrily when I was called into service in a hurry and fired up. Due to lack of grease or whatever that part where the big wheels have that connecting arm to each other started grinding away and caused me a lot of pain - hence the somatic I had.

What I found most interesting about that beingness though was that I recalled chugging along the track and thinking that there were places to go where the rail tracks were not- - - I'm not quite wording this correctly - I could see that other life forms were up on the hillsides and so on but I could conceive of no way that I could ever be there, there was no imaginable solution to the problem because there were no rail tracks on the hillside.

I remember sitting with this in the session - it was like I was able to see into another spatial dimension while the spaces I could occupy simply did not extend into those dimensions, I could only look at it but could not conceivably ever be there.

It was really interesting perspective on things.

The somatic was blown and has never returned since.

[Leon]

Another time - this was on the Apollo and I was being audited by Cathy Cariotaki - was when I first fully exteriorised with full exterior visio.

I was into this whole track incident of sitting in a little fighter plane on the ground at the airport, I was gunning the engine getting it hot so I could take off. Then the bloody thing blew up under me, I pulled the ejection lever thing but the explosion blew me out simultaneously.

Any way I went through the incident the first time and at the point of blowing out of the plane I felt myself wobble indside my head in a big way. So I told Cathy that if I go through that again I'm going to go ext and we'll be off auditing for a while. That's OK, she said - move to the beginning etc. I did and when I hit that part of the incident again WHOOOOSH - I was out and looking at my body sitting in the chair.

"Are you ext?" she says.

"Yep, I'm up here by the coat hooks."

"OK. End of Session."

Got my Int Rundown from David Mayo which was a real treat. In the years subsequent I would always hear of people with unflat Int or having trouble with Int etc. I never ever did. It was flat and one hundred percent cool. Has never come up again on a correction list ever.

[Leon]

So there's two stories for you. It'll do for now.

[Tanstaafl]

Nice stories Leon, thanks.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Wow, being a steam locomotive! That's different! Okay, my data banks are culling through the files -- ah yes! -- here's the link:

At PAC base there was an old elevator and one day it broke down. The short story is that there was a thetan holding the elevator motor together and had been doing that for about 25 years. It all got started when the doctors rolled an anesthetized patient into the elevator and the motor cracked and one of the doctors yelled something about someone better get up there and fix it. The comatose patient zoomed up there and had been holding it together until an OT came and audited it out for him.

I think I was once a doormat, rofl

[Bea Kiddo]

Wow, being a steam locomotive! That's different! Okay, my data banks are culling through the files -- ah yes! -- here's the link:

At PAC base there was an old elevator and one day it broke down. The short story is that there was a thetan holding the elevator motor together and had been doing that for about 25 years. It all got started when the doctors rolled an anesthetized patient into the elevator and the motor cracked and one of the doctors yelled something about someone better get up there and fix it. The comatose patient zoomed up there and had been holding it together until an OT came and audited it out for him.

I think I was once a doormat, rofl

I'm curious which elevator that was. Do you happen to know?

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Wow, being a steam locomotive! That's different! Okay, my data banks are culling through the files -- ah yes! -- here's the link:

At PAC base there was an old elevator and one day it broke down. The short story is that there was a thetan holding the elevator motor together and had been doing that for about 25 years. It all got started when the doctors rolled an anesthetized patient into the elevator and the motor cracked and one of the doctors yelled something about someone better get up there and fix it. The comatose patient zoomed up there and had been holding it together until an OT came and audited it out for him.

I think I was once a doormat, rofl

I think we've all been doormats, figuratively or otherwise.

[Dulloldfart]

B routing.

Its in Staff Status Two. I knew this one. Shoot. Rusty stupid mind!!!

It has to do with routing of despaches.

It's either having one copy of something, and sending it to a bunch of people with a via (so each signs and passes on to the next), or:

Its One copy to the main person it is going to, with cc's sent to the rest.

I do believe that the post titles that are involved are always the same.

Its from an issue from the Old SH days.

Paul probably remembers. Or Lulu.

Too right.

Staff member reports, like "Technical Non-Compliance Report", should have two copies, with carbon paper. Remember that stuff? Original straight to Ethics, copy to transgressor via B Routing, i.e. up your side of the org board until you can move across it, then down his side, through all the intervening command-line terminals.

So the copy of an annoyance report written on the Payroll Officer by the CF Officer for not shutting a filing cabinet drawer would end up in his out-basket with the routing looking something like this:

Ethics

cc: Payroll Officer
via Dir Disbursements
Treas Sec
Dissem Sec
Dir Reg <--------
---------
CF Officer


That's assuming CF is in Dept 6. It moved from Dept 6 to Dept 5 when I was in and I don't know where it is now.

Haven't written one of those for a while. :)

Paul

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Too right.

Staff member reports, like "Technical Non-Compliance Report", should have two copies, with carbon paper. Remember that stuff? Original straight to Ethics, copy to transgressor via B Routing, i.e. up your side of the org board until you can move across it, then down his side, through all the intervening command-line terminals.

So the copy of an annoyance report written on the Payroll Officer by the CF Officer for not shutting a filing cabinet drawer would end up in his out-basket with the routing looking something like this:

Ethics

cc: Payroll Officer
via Dir Disbursements
Treas Sec
Dissem Sec
Dir Reg <--------
---------
CF Officer


That's assuming CF is in Dept 6. It moved from Dept 6 to Dept 5 when I was in and I don't know where it is now.

Haven't written one of those for a while. :)

Paul

And when you're a lowly undervalued staff member, you discover that anyone in that B-chain can block your report and have it removed from Ethics. I saw lots of "using Ethics/Crams etc. to avoid Ethics".

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I'm curious which elevator that was. Do you happen to know?

Okay, give me a sec, how many elevators were there? I believe it was the elevator on the Advanced Org side of the street, the building next to the CLO, is there one there? That rings true to me. I know there is an elevator on the Leb Hall side, but that does not indicate.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

So there's two stories for you. It'll do for now.

Thanks, Leon, I enjoyed those adventures of your.

Okay, two nights ago I was auditing hubby and it came up that he had been a Celt in Kent. An Anglo group came in and stole the land, raping, killing, pillaging, etc, you know, the usual Anglo-Saxon thing. He was so angry and vengeful that he got himself born into one of the more landed anglo families so that he could get the land back and give it back to his people. Sort of confusing plan that did not quite work out for obvious reasons. He fought as a knight really bravely for the king and the king did not give him anymore land, just a large gold coin. Boy that really ticked him off too. What a predicament! I did notice that the next morning he gave himself a celtic haircut. He did mention that the Romans were viewed as no threat and were a joy to trade with.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Another time - this was on the Apollo and I was being audited by Cathy Cariotaki - was when I first fully exteriorised with full exterior visio.

I was into this whole track incident of sitting in a little fighter plane on the ground at the airport, I was gunning the engine getting it hot so I could take off. Then the bloody thing blew up under me, I pulled the ejection lever thing but the explosion blew me out simultaneously.

Any way I went through the incident the first time and at the point of blowing out of the plane I felt myself wobble indside my head in a big way. So I told Cathy that if I go through that again I'm going to go ext and we'll be off auditing for a while. That's OK, she said - move to the beginning etc. I did and when I hit that part of the incident again WHOOOOSH - I was out and looking at my body sitting in the chair.

"Are you ext?" she says.

"Yep, I'm up here by the coat hooks."

"OK. End of Session."

Got my Int Rundown from David Mayo which was a real treat. In the years subsequent I would always hear of people with unflat Int or having trouble with Int etc. I never ever did. It was flat and one hundred percent cool. Has never come up again on a correction list ever.

Are you still fully exterior today?

[Leon]

Not with ext perception. I have that rarely only.

Glad you enjoyed the stories. I don't think I was a Celt as such ever. I was a Viking for a while and remeber running an incident where we had successfully sacked a town in northern France. Got lots of loot, some good women, valuables etc. I recalled then watching the town burn and having this lovely warm fuzzy feeling inside me of a job well done.

[Zinjifar]

I recalled then watching the town burn and having this lovely warm fuzzy feeling inside me of a job well done.

That 'incident' is being restimulated and recapitulated in the Scientology sacking of Clearwater. Just slower.

Zinj

[Voltaire's Child]

Wonderful accounts by Leon.

Neat comments by everybody else.

What a fun thread!

Almost as fun as the one where Emma put all the pix of lolcats...

Ok, it's just as fun.

(Fluffy desperately and unsuccessfully mentally flailing about for an lol cat style witticism about past lives...)

[TheSneakster]

not important

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Probably one of the Main Building elevators. Surgery was located on the 7th Floor, Main Building.

IIRC, Main Building had two elevators large enough to hold 10 people or so and deep enough to take a gurney (one of those wheeled one-person beds you move patients on), as well as another smaller service elevator. Only one of the large elevators seemed to be working off and on when I was there in 1991-1995.

What a joy it was "berthing" in a former surgical room - NOT.

The Sneakster


Yes, it would have to have been an elevator that could hold a gurney. The morgue had supposedly been cleared out by OT's, but I don't think so. We saw (yes, "saw") about 3 of them still hanging around the old morgue. An old hospital like that is sure to have some very strange thetans hanging around. That was my first experience getting in communication with disembodied beings.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Not with ext perception. I have that rarely only.

Glad you enjoyed the stories. I don't think I was a Celt as such ever. I was a Viking for a while and remeber running an incident where we had successfully sacked a town in northern France. Got lots of loot, some good women, valuables etc. I recalled then watching the town burn and having this lovely warm fuzzy feeling inside me of a job well done.

How could you?!?

[Leon]

Those were the days, my friend.

[TheSneakster]

not important

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

:thumbsup:

The definition of a "win": intending to do something and doing it, or intending not to do something and not doing it!

Conan's Mongol Owner: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan the Slave Arena Fighter: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

The Sneakster

Yes, but he was very robotic when he said that.

[Bea Kiddo]

Okay, give me a sec, how many elevators were there? I believe it was the elevator on the Advanced Org side of the street, the building next to the CLO, is there one there? That rings true to me. I know there is an elevator on the Leb Hall side, but that does not indicate.

On Main building side:

There are two I know of in LA Org (up by Sunset)

3 in ASHO

1 in Leb Hall

service elevator in kitchen/galley

3 large ones in main building

Another service elevator by the North 40/VRU (where they keep the dumpsters)

None I know of in he old Bridge building (which is CLO now, up Catalina St past where the boilers are)

On the AO Side:

AO has 2

CLO I think has one (The CLO building used to be the animal testing area when it was a hospital and there are all kinds of weird stories about that building).

The new Bridge building (On fountain) has one, I think.


-----

I was asking because the main building elevator closest to LRH Way has been broken for years and years and not repaired. Its almost spooky how much it kept breaking down and they just chalked it up to a lost cause. Last time it was consistently working I guess was 86 or so.

[Voltaire's Child]

:thumbsup:

The definition of a "win": intending to do something and doing it, or intending not to do something and not doing it!

Conan's Mongol Owner: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan the Slave Arena Fighter: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

The Sneakster

I know! It's sooo cute...when Arnie (Schwartzenegger, that is) was running for governor in CA, I kept quoting that line...

Spoken in that accent of his- hilarious!

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

On Main building side:

There are two I know of in LA Org (up by Sunset)

3 in ASHO

1 in Leb Hall

service elevator in kitchen/galley

3 large ones in main building

Another service elevator by the North 40/VRU (where they keep the dumpsters)

None I know of in he old Bridge building (which is CLO now, up Catalina St past where the boilers are)

On the AO Side:

AO has 2

CLO I think has one (The CLO building used to be the animal testing area when it was a hospital and there are all kinds of weird stories about that building).

The new Bridge building (On fountain) has one, I think.


-----

I was asking because the main building elevator closest to LRH Way has been broken for years and years and not repaired. Its almost spooky how much it kept breaking down and they just chalked it up to a lost cause. Last time it was consistently working I guess was 86 or so.


I was very sure it was in the Advanced Org, next to the CLO building. I've heard some other stories of disembodied-beings-happenings there too, but I've seen so many things extraordinary since then that it's become "ho-hum" for me.

Well, don't let being geographically challenged, as I obviously am, diminish the truthfulness of the rest of the story. They found a cracked elevator motor and a thetan holding it together and they got someone to get in comm with the thetan and that is tale he told.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I know! It's sooo cute...when Arnie (Schwartzenegger, that is) was running for governor in CA, I kept quoting that line...

Spoken in that accent of his- hilarious!

I watched that movie 13 times. It had a religious cult featured, run by some Nimrod.

[TheSneakster]

not important

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Thulsa Doom, High Priest of Set (played most convincingly by James Earl Jones).

As a demonstration of his power to Conan, who has been captured, he calls to a girl who is standing on a cliff ledge high above them, to come down to him. The plainly mesmerized woman steps off the cliff and plummets over 100 feet to crash through the speaking platform where he is standing - without even a scream.

Thulsa Doom also slew Conan's mother, who stood to defend him with a sword in her village, by using this same mesmerising power to make her lower her sword and then striking off her head in front of young Conan.

A truly nasty character.

The Sneakster

I'd rather run that in session than OT3.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yeah, me too.

[Bea Kiddo]

I was very sure it was in the Advanced Org, next to the CLO building. I've heard some other stories of disembodied-beings-happenings there too, but I've seen so many things extraordinary since then that it's become "ho-hum" for me.

Well, don't let being geographically challenged, as I obviously am, diminish the truthfulness of the rest of the story. They found a cracked elevator motor and a thetan holding it together and they got someone to get in comm with the thetan and that is tale he told.

Thats really very cool. Thank you for the story.

[Voltaire's Child]

If, as Scn states (and I personally believe) people can really do things and really exist after body death, it seems to me that if you did have areas where people study that stuff (in Scn) then maybe beings who'd gone through body death might be likely to go there, hoping someone could communicate with them.

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

If, as Scn states (and I personally believe) people can really do things and really exist after body death, it seems to me that if you did have areas where people study that stuff (in Scn) then maybe beings who'd gone through body death might be likely to go there, hoping someone could communicate with them.

An OTV told me that before she picked up her current body she was listening in on a lecture that Ron was giving. She then snatched the body of an old man who was getting some auditing and went Clear in that body.

[Voltaire's Child]

WOW!!

That's really interesting.

But what happened to that guy- thetan-wise?

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

WOW!!

That's really interesting.

But what happened to that guy- thetan-wise?

She was quiet on that subject, and I did ask her. But look at it this way, just being born is mostly an overt.

[Voltaire's Child]

You think so? I'm not so sure about that. Why would it be an overt? Just curious...

[Royal Prince Xenu]

You think so? I'm not so sure about that. Why would it be an overt? Just curious...

When I was doing a PTS rundown, when asked what was my major overt on my father my answer was a hugely emotional: "Being born."

I know for a fact he was "over the moon" at being a father, but as an adult, I felt I had been abandoned.

Instead of locking up PC files, perhaps we should be able to share things, and most people would realize "I'm not the only who feels/thinks that..."

[nexus100]

She was quiet on that subject, and I did ask her. But look at it this way, just being born is mostly an overt.

Why?

[Dulloldfart]

Why?

An example would be fighting with another thetan over who would pick up the baby body, and winning. It might not theoretically look like an overt, but if it comes up as one to the winner and charge comes off on it, then it's an overt.

Paul

[Royal Prince Xenu]

An example would be fighting with another thetan over who would pick up the baby body, and winning. It might not theoretically look like an overt, but if it comes up as one to the winner and charge comes off on it, then it's an overt.

Paul

Could it also be an overt on self to enter an enturbulated environment?

[Dulloldfart]

Could it also be an overt on self to enter an enturbulated environment?

If someone has charge on something being an overt, it's an overt. It's his consideration, not what you think about it. Sometimes a pc has to go through hoops convincing some auditor as to why something is an overt just so he will accept it as an answer to a sec check question (comm cycle additive!).

Paul

[Royal Prince Xenu]

If someone has charge on something being an overt, it's an overt. It's his consideration, not what you think about it. Sometimes a pc has to go through hoops convincing some auditor as to why something is an overt just so he will accept it as an answer to a sec check question (comm cycle additive!).

Paul

I'm so relieved to hear that. It finally means that all those DC-8s and atomics didn't amount to an overt afterall!

[Voltaire's Child]

RPX,

LOL!

[Voltaire's Child]

Great points, as always, Paul.

Now, at least as to the lady Gnosis talks about, we don't know if it was an overt or not because we don't know what transpired between the other being and her (she?? Grammar??) and how they felt about it.

Very interesting story, at any rate.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

If I had access to an auditor that I trusted, yes, it may be worth investigating and seeing if these past "impressions" help blow some contemporary shit; but as my spiritual path is now a very different one to what it was, the past is not as important. I am not invalidating those "memories", I am just allowing for the fact that like everyone else who thinks they were Jesus, only one of them actually could have been.

"If I had access to an auditor that I trusted" I guess I can consider myself lucky that my one and only auditing session was preformed by an auditor that gave me the creeps, other wises I might have wasted the next ten or twenty years of my life chasing something that does not exist ... the state of Clear. I definitely felt something during that auditing session something very powerful, I felt like I was someone else and went exterior. I immediately opened my eyes stood up and got back to present state. If I trusted the auditor I would have let it continue and might have got sucked into the cult. Instead I never went back, and after a few months the phone calls stopped. The funny thing about it about a year later I was with my girlfriend at a Sunday brunch and freaked out because my auditor was our waiter, he didn't recognize me, not even the voice that he listen to about a hundred times on my answering machine, he had no idea who I was. It confirmed what I already knew, Scientology's State of Clear is nothing but a myth ... a well organized and well marketed myth. I think auditing might have therapeutic value, but like you said "If I had access to an auditor that I trusted" which pretty much eliminates anyone involved in Hubbard's pyramid scam

[Dulloldfart]

I think auditing might have therapeutic value, but like you said "If I had access to an auditor that I trusted" which pretty much eliminates anyone involved in Hubbard's pyramid scam

Well, I happen to know this Robot Auditor that is guaranteed not to evaluate for you or pass on any secrets. Free of charge too. :)

Paul

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Well, I happen to know this Robot Auditor that is guaranteed not to evaluate for you or pass on any secrets. Free of charge too. :)

Paul

It looks interesting, I'll have to check it out when I'm in the right frame of mind

[KnightVision]

I could never understand why some would give a hoot about past or future lives ( or the imagining of them) when this moment right now is more than they can bear to fully realize.

There may be past or future life (for me and others) yet I prefer to focus on doing the very the very best I can with this one. This one's for real, no belief necessary.

[Voltaire's Child]

I could never understand why some would give a hoot about past or future lives ( or the imagining of them) when this moment right now is more than they can bear to fully realize.

There may be past or future life (for me and others) yet I prefer to focus on doing the very the very best I can with this one. This one's for real, no belief necessary.



Because it's not really past lives. It's just one infinite lifetime with the occasional change of body. One's previous identity's lifetime's events would be as important or unimportant as things that happened to one a few months, years or decades ago.

[RolandRB]

1) Do you, or did you, remember your past lives?

2) If yes, are you *certain* the memories are really of your past life?

1) Yes

2) I am certain that they are NOT real.

There is nothing you will get from a past life that you can sell today. If you had really lived before and could remember your past lives then you will know a card or a board game that was hugely popular in one of your past lives and this could sell today. A good game is worth a huge amount of money. You won't remember one from your past lives because your past life memories are not real.

[Voltaire's Child]

Couldn't a person have untrue/incorrect (imaginary) "memories" of "past lives" and also have correct ones? I say yes.

[uniquemand]

They could. However, I have no reason to believe any "memory" about a past life is anything but a delusion.

[KnightVision]

Because it's not really past lives. It's just one infinite lifetime with the occasional change of body. One's previous identity's lifetime's events would be as important or unimportant as things that happened to one a few months, years or decades ago.

Well yes, I'm familiar with that take; quite impossible to have a Scilon experience and not be.

The concept and resultant effect upon a person who buys it makes for an introduction to equating that which is perceived within the mind with that which is knowably experienced as a person born into this world and who can directly touch, see and PROVE the existence of it... and equating those realities as the same makes the mind a more fallable tool. And IMO wastes precious time that would better be put to focusing on what is provable (to the outside world) and knowable (scientifically).

[Voltaire's Child]

Oh, well, there are lots of people who believe in spiritual theories who aren't and never were in Scn. I personally think science is wonderful and people should learn as much as they can in those fields of knowledge but I wouldn't look to science to address spiritual concerns.

[lionheart]

Oh, well, there are lots of people who believe in spiritual theories who aren't and never were in Scn. I personally think science is wonderful and people should learn as much as they can in those fields of knowledge but I wouldn't look to science to address spiritual concerns.

Why not? :confused2:

The differentiation between scientific and spiritual is arbitrary and false. What you said is like saying I wouldn't look to a coin lying heads up to find a tails.

Maybe the ultimate end of science is spiritual and the ultimate end of spiritual is scientific!

Modern science is examining the most profound spiritual concepts.

The divide between the two that you are seeing is an illusion.

[Voltaire's Child]

Why not? :confused2: .


Because science addresses the physical only and posits that existence is confined to that realm.

[Zinjifar]

Because science addresses the physical only and posits that existence is confined to that realm.

No
It
Doesn't.

Science addresses that which can be addressed by the scientific method. Anything beyond that is merely not scientifically evaluatable.

Scientology, of course, deliberately muddies the question by claiming to be a 'scientific spirituality', which is bullshit.

Zinj

[apple]

Past lives.....I am not certain about any more. When involved in Scn. it was such a glib agreement but not a real certainty.

When my grandfather passed away. He lived far away but I felt him very close,closer then if he was there in body. That was certain. I still feel he is accessible.

In reading Miracles and other Realities by Lee Pulos and Gary Richman my opinion of past lives may have changed. Lee a clinical psychologist went to Brazil to check out a psychic, Thomaz Morais. The abilities that Thomaz has are amazing. One thing he talked about was this other dimension. I am thinking that there may be no past lives but the other dimension after we die, maybe then some form of life after that, I dont know. I phoned Lee and asked him about the book. He told me over 90% of what he wrote he saw for himself. I know the man and he is an accredited professional.

So for me, maybe no past lives but a different dimension or a different density of mass that seperates us from here to there by a thin membrane.

[Hatshepsut]

Because it's not really past lives. It's just one infinite lifetime with the occasional change of body. One's previous identity's lifetime's events would be as important or unimportant as things that happened to one a few months, years or decades ago.

I agree here.

I'm knocked out of my socks by the recent posts on this thread. I just took it for granted that all Scientological thinkers took their many lives for granted. :ohmy:

I was born with memories of Theresenstadt in Poland. I didn't know what a Nazi camp was until I got older and I understood these nightmares. When I was around 17 the memories began to fade. At 19 I began running Life Repair with E/S and that window opened up again. After a while I just picked up impressions around me. Beings flash pictures. The points where they are stuck on the track compulsively are viewable. These images often belong to beings not in charge of running that life. And they are of a time period not of the present. So who's pictures are they? Most of the time I'd say they fall into the category of service facsimiles. Not just random impressions of the past I am perceiving. Chronic behavior with the chronic past life justification staring right at you.
I got into serious trouble running some stuff in Miami and had terrible somatics like bullets going through my chest. I hurt so bad. It seemed MEST beings in Chile were implanting the G.E. using a spinning 'wheel of fortune' thing. As a new PC I blurted out of nowhere ITS NOT MY INCIDENT! (on lower levels) All the somatics blew immediately and the TA dropped. Now, I don't care who's incident is whos any more. I never felt the need to be anybody or anything famous though I feel I've known some.
I don't believe the concept that there is one big being YOU, and a bunch of smaller beings who are BTs is absolutely correct. Several times I had to locate the counter-intention coming from someone and dispel it. What I found was that when I handled it ...it did not seem to have come from that person at all. (often it even seemed to be coming from me.) Or there seemed to be personality subsets loosely tethered to the person. I do not care to guess what category of beingness I'd be looking at. But my point is people have ISSUES and these have their roots too many times not in the present life.
Even if the concept of past lives is basically an illusion...the static cannot experience itself as a STATIC. It has to enter into a lie and use a via. A body of theta. Or a theta body in my experience can be an early via. It is this which can be impressed upon like rice paper or be split. It is this that can get lost in the labrynth of the time stream. Not the STATIC. So if you want to say you have no past lives as YOU. You are right. If you want to say you are not affected by impressions of experience in the Physical Universe then you have a degree of clarity unbelievable. :) The body is composed of solutions upon solutions which are the built up ridges of evolution itself. That's time track there that you are looking at when you observe the solidity of the body.
I don't think it would be fair if the body gets to own these composite past existences and we got squat. :no:

[Mark A. Baker]

Even if the concept of past lives is basically an illusion...the static cannot experience itself as a STATIC. It has to enter into a lie and use a via. A body of theta. Or a theta body in my experience can be an early via. It is this which can be impressed upon like rice paper or be split. It is this that can get lost in the labrynth of the time stream. Not the STATIC. So if you want to say you have no past lives as YOU. You are right. If you want to say you are not affected by impressions of experience in the Physical Universe then you have a degree of clarity unbelievable. :) The body is composed of solutions upon solutions which are the built up ridges of evolution itself. That's time track there that you are looking at when you observe the solidity of the body.
I don't think it would be fair if the body gets to own these composite past existences and we got squat. :no:


When you audit "charge" something that looks like "past track" invariably comes up. What that is is not completely clear. It can be thought of in many ways. As I like to say the "truth" may be even stranger than "past lives". "Reincarnation" may be just the simplest way to describe such phenomena to others in a way they can immediately understand.

Ultimately the truth about "past lives" is secondary to the truth about a being's spiritual nature.:)


Mark A. Baker

[Pepin]

I can truthfully say that my past lives were just as real as this one is.

I remember things that were important to me. Mainly the people I cared about. The job I did.

If the last life was not real as you put it. I wouldn't have been able to pinpoint without a marker the place where the last body was buried.
It was confirmed by others whom I told before we arrived.



1) Yes

2) I am certain that they are NOT real.

There is nothing you will get from a past life that you can sell today. If you had really lived before and could remember your past lives then you will know a card or a board game that was hugely popular in one of your past lives and this could sell today. A good game is worth a huge amount of money. You won't remember one from your past lives because your past life memories are not real.

[KnightVision]

Oh, well, there are lots of people who believe in spiritual theories who aren't and never were in Scn. I personally think science is wonderful and people should learn as much as they can in those fields of knowledge but I wouldn't look to science to address spiritual concerns.

The greatest 'spiritual' experience anyone can have is to be present, here and now.
Science deals with that.

If you watch a bird swoop into your back yard, play in the birdbath, chomp down a bit at the bird feeder, chirp a bit- calling all his buds in for the play... And if you're able to take all this in with no labels... just experience it... it can be quite enlightening; cause it has nothing to do with 'ot' or 'clear'... it has to do with the creation of life... an energy and beauty which is outstanding.

Science deals with that. Science is a dutiful student of the beauty of creation.

What the mind can conceive of that is not objectively verifiable, may be interesting, but the fact that anything would make itself objectively UN-verifiable is a clue as to whether it really wishes to be known as part of creation at large.

[Tiger Lily]

If the last life was not real as you put it. I wouldn't have been able to pinpoint without a marker the place where the last body was buried.
It was confirmed by others whom I told before we arrived.

Really Pepin? That had to be an amazing validation! Would love to hear the story.

-TL

[uniquemand]

I would love to have verification of this story.

[Zinjifar]

Even *if* verified, this would not be 'proof' of Past Lives; only of the ability to contact/remember details of *someone elses'* past life. Not that that's chopped liver...

Zinj

[Mark A. Baker]

Even *if* verified, this would not be 'proof' of Past Lives; only of the ability to contact/remember details of *someone elses'* past life. Not that that's chopped liver...

Zinj

From one perspective all "past lives" are someone else's "past life". :D


Mark A. Baker

[lionheart]

Because science addresses the physical only and posits that existence is confined to that realm.

No it doesn't!

Also you snipped out key parts of my post.

[lionheart]

The greatest 'spiritual' experience anyone can have is to be present, here and now.
Science deals with that.

If you watch a bird swoop into your back yard, play in the birdbath, chomp down a bit at the bird feeder, chirp a bit- calling all his buds in for the play... And if you're able to take all this in with no labels... just experience it... it can be quite enlightening; cause it has nothing to do with 'ot' or 'clear'... it has to do with the creation of life... an energy and beauty which is outstanding.

Science deals with that. Science is a dutiful student of the beauty of creation.

What the mind can conceive of that is not objectively verifiable, may be interesting, but the fact that anything would make itself objectively UN-verifiable is a clue as to whether it really wishes to be known as part of creation at large.


Even *if* verified, this would not be 'proof' of Past Lives; only of the ability to contact/remember details of *someone elses'* past life. Not that that's chopped liver...

Zinj


From one perspective all "past lives" are someone else's "past life". :D


Mark A. Baker

Here's an alternative to the explanation of so-called "past lives".

Taking KVs wonderful description of simply being present:

Here, right here, right now I see the bird swoop as KV describes. Where is that bird? When is it?

It appears (literally) to be right here, right now. Really, really right here. Right inside, where I thought I was, is this beauty of creation, the bird.

I thought I was me, but actually I am a bird feeding. What I thought of as me has given way and allowed the vision of the bird in. Right here, right now!

So I am the bird, the garden, the sky, the sounds. They are here, right where I thought I was. Is the bird mine or am I the bird?

What I thought was "me" is in fact the world and all of creation. How about you? I somehow suspect you too are the whole of creation! I certainly hope you are!

There is only now. What we label as the past is actually here, right now, how could it be otherwise? Right here, right now in an auditing session I see a picture of Victorian England. Like the bird in the garden, it appears (literally) to be right here right now. I give way to the Victorian scene. What I thought was me is in fact a Victorian tableau. I have given way and allowed the scene in right here, right now.

Creation has displayed a Victorian scene and it is where I thought I was. Is the scene mine or am I the scene?

Suppose, just like the whole of the world is here, where I thought I was, all scenes of all times are here where I thought I was.

The Rosicrucians (and others) have a concept of the "Akashic Records". They believe all experience is available to all. The so-called past is right here, all of it.

[KnightVision]

Here's an alternative to the explanation of so-called "past lives".

Taking KVs wonderful description of simply being present:

Here, right here, right now I see the bird swoop as KV describes. Where is that bird? When is it?

It appears (literally) to be right here, right now. Really, really right here. Right inside, where I thought I was, is this beauty of creation, the bird.

I thought I was me, but actually I am a bird feeding. What I thought of as me has given way and allowed the vision of the bird in. Right here, right now!

So I am the bird, the garden, the sky, the sounds. They are here, right where I thought I was. Is the bird mine or am I the bird?

What I thought was "me" is in fact the world and all of creation. How about you? I somehow suspect you too are the whole of creation! I certainly hope you are!

There is only now. What we label as the past is actually here, right now, how could it be otherwise? Right here, right now in an auditing session I see a picture of Victorian England. Like the bird in the garden, it appears (literally) to be right here right now. I give way to the Victorian scene. What I thought was me is in fact a Victorian tableau. I have given way and allowed the scene in right here, right now.

Creation has displayed a Victorian scene and it is where I thought I was. Is the scene mine or am I the scene?

Suppose, just like the whole of the world is here, where I thought I was, all scenes of all times are here where I thought I was.

The Rosicrucians (and others) have a concept of the "Akashic Records". They believe all experience is available to all. The so-called past is right here, all of it.

Very nice indeed! Star high. And we can have the world and everything in it. Upon surrender, but it's really just surrendering to what we actually are.

And it doesn't cost a cent to achieve... :thumbsup:

[lionheart]

Very nice indeed! Star high. And we can have the world and everything in it. Upon surrender, but it's really just surrendering to what we actually are.

And it doesn't cost a cent to achieve... :thumbsup:

Like it says in you sig - It will do for me! :happydance:

[Voltaire's Child]

No it doesn't!

Also you snipped out key parts of my post.

Yes, it does. Things like parapsychology are sneered at by the mainstream scientific community. I mean, I can go ahead and clarify my earlier statement by saying that MAINSTREAM SCIENCE doesn't etc.

Yes, I did do some snippage. Like any other forum contributor on the entire planet, I write my responses as I see fit, taking up whatever points I wish, etc.

[Voltaire's Child]

The greatest 'spiritual' experience anyone can have is to be present, here and now.

That may or may not be so. For one thing, most spiritual teachers will tell you that time is all one anyway. But there's certainly nothing wrong with being in the Now. Buddhism talks about that.



Science deals with that.

To an extent. With omissions.


If you watch a bird swoop into your back yard, play in the birdbath, chomp down a bit at the bird feeder, chirp a bit- calling all his buds in for the play... And if you're able to take all this in with no labels... just experience it... it can be quite enlightening; cause it has nothing to do with 'ot' or 'clear'... it has to do with the creation of life... an energy and beauty which is outstanding.

Yes, that's a nice thing but it's not the only thing out there on which I would want to concentrate any amount of my attention.

[Voltaire's Child]

No
It
Doesn't.

Science addresses that which can be addressed by the scientific method. Anything beyond that is merely not scientifically evaluatable.

Scientology, of course, deliberately muddies the question by claiming to be a 'scientific spirituality', which is bullshit.

Zinj

Time and time again I've seen/read material by men and women of science in THEIR publications and other releases that defined life as chemicals, physics, etc, ONLY.

Spirituality is not quantifiable by the scientific method because spirit has no physical properties.

I recommend the book "Spooks" by Mary Roach

[KnightVision]

The greatest 'spiritual' experience anyone can have is to be present, here and now. -snip-



That may or may not be so. For one thing, most spiritual teachers will tell you that time is all one anyway. But there's certainly nothing wrong with being in the Now. Buddhism talks about that.


'Nothing wrong with being in the now'?

Actually there is no other choice. Any conception otherwise is an allusion. We can't actually exist in any other timeframe.

[lionheart]

Yes, there is only NOW.

"Past Lives" are NOW, "future" goals and fears are NOW.

Fluffy, your view of "science" is too simplistic. Many scientists would also agree with your simplistic definition, but that doesn't make the definition correct.

Zinj's definition was much more accurate. "Science addresses that which can be addressed by the scientific method. Anything beyond that is merely not scientifically evaluatable."

Modern science is looking more and more closely at matter, energy, space and time and finding what we would commonly call spiritual answers.

How could it be otherwise? A head doesn't exist without a tail, they are both intrinsic to the thing called a coin.

The physical universe and spirit are part of the same whole. How could it be otherwise? So those studying science eventually find spiritual thngs and those studying the spiritual eventually find the Universe! :happydance:

KV, NOW in his garden finds beauty and life and serenity by allowing the bird to fill his being.

The physical universe has led him to heaven! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

[Voltaire's Child]

'Nothing wrong with being in the now'?

Actually there is no other choice. Any conception otherwise is an allusion. We can't actually exist in any other timeframe.


I didn't say there weren't other choices as to how one exists, however, what one chooses to focus his or her time and attention upon often can be something entirely different.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes, there is only NOW.

"Past Lives" are NOW, "future" goals and fears are NOW.

Fluffy, your view of "science" is too simplistic. Many scientists would also agree with your simplistic definition, but that doesn't make the definition correct.

No, actually it's not. It's based on what scientists say in their published writings. I have a lot of science majors in my family and I read science-for-laypersons type books often.

I think that you've invented a scientological view of science (or observed one that others had) and assigned it to me.



Zinj's definition was much more accurate. "Science addresses that which can be addressed by the scientific method. Anything beyond that is merely not scientifically evaluatable."

Which means science does not address it. I recommend Mary Roach's book.


Modern science is looking more and more closely at matter, energy, space and time and finding what we would commonly call spiritual answers.

Yes, that is true to an extent. Quantum physics, etc. But mainstream science views that as proof that the physical is all and that every phenomenon has a physical universe type explanation even if we don't know what it is yet. There are people who've written quantum physics books that sought to tie that in to spirituality but those people are not in the mainstream scienctific community and don't have a lot of cred there. Just as parapsychologists aren't widely accepted by the scientific community. Mavericks in academia tend not to be.


How could it be otherwise? A head doesn't exist without a tail, they are both intrinsic to the thing called a coin.

Depends on what the person is trying to accomplish and that often is based on their own preconceived theories. Mainstream science addresses everything from the standpoint that any phenomenon has a physical universe explanation. One such is that the belief in OBEs or spiritual visions is all something due to the brain. I keep seeing new updated "explanations" about that and I assure you, they all leave spirit/spirituality out of the equation.




The physical universe and spirit are part of the same whole. How could it be otherwise? So those studying science eventually find spiritual thngs and those studying the spiritual eventually find the Universe! :happydance:

Of course they are part of the whole. That's why people like me (and perhaps you) read about and give props to both. But mainstream science does not.



KV, NOW in his garden finds beauty and life and serenity by allowing the bird to fill his being.

The physical universe has led him to heaven! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Yes, in "heaven" while sneering at the beliefs of others. Kind of like one of those Puritan kinda heavens, huh.

[Dulloldfart]

Time and time again I've seen/read material by men and women of science in THEIR publications and other releases that defined life as chemicals, physics, etc, ONLY.

Spirituality is not quantifiable by the scientific method because spirit has no physical properties.


The plasma auric fields, for example, are physical, albeit very tenuous. Just need to get the instrumentation sensitive enough. There's a gradient scale between 100% spirit and 100% matter, not absolutes.

Paul

[Mark A. Baker]

Yes, that is true to an extent. Quantum physics, etc. But mainstream science views that as proof that the physical is all and that every phenomenon has a physical universe type explanation even if we don't know what it is yet. There are people who've written quantum physics books that sought to tie that in to spirituality but those people are not in the mainstream scienctific community and don't have a lot of cred there. Just as parapsychologists aren't widely accepted by the scientific community. Mavericks in academia tend not to be.


I've been reading a very interesting book, "The Mind & The Brain", authored by a psychiatric-neurologist. In the book he makes a very interesting point about modern science, especially as it relates to medicine. Most "scientists" are unfamiliar with modern physics & quantum mechanics. It doesn't come into their work. Their basic physical model is that of Newtonian Mechanics. As a result, they don't recognize when quantum level effects may well be effecting the results in their research.

This can be especially significant in research on biological organisms as many of the mechanisms internal to cells function on a level at which quantum effects are known to be relevant. Such factors however significantly complicate the required analysis.

So, despite the fact that "modern science" has been around for over 100 years, most scientists are still dependent on a philosophy of science which became obsolete in the 19th century. :omg:


Mark A. Baker

[KnightVision]

-snip-

Yes, in "heaven" while sneering at the beliefs of others. Kind of like one of those Puritan kinda heavens, huh.

Total projection.

I simply state not 'what I believe' but what is and is provable. Facts.

It is LCH amongst others who attempts to redefine 'truth' as whatever one decides that they want it to be. A recipe for pulling the wool over their eyes as they gleefully ride into isolation.

[Voltaire's Child]

I've been reading a very interesting book, "The Mind & The Brain", authored by a psychiatric-neurologist. In the book he makes a very interesting point about modern science, especially as it relates to medicine. Most "scientists" are unfamiliar with modern physics & quantum mechanics. It doesn't come into their work. Their basic physical model is that of Newtonian Mechanics. As a result, they don't recognize when quantum level effects may well be effecting the results in their research.

This can be especially significant in research on biological organisms as many of the mechanisms internal to cells function on a level at which quantum effects are known to be relevant. Such factors however significantly complicate the required analysis.

So, despite the fact that "modern science" has been around for over 100 years, most scientists are still dependent on a philosophy of science which became obsolete in the 19th century. :omg:


Mark A. Baker

Exactly. Because their underlying thesis is predicated on the idea that all these things have some sort of physical explanation.

People on this thread keep telling me (as if I didn't know) that science and spirituality are part of a whole, that it's tied in together. Well, I know that and you know that but does the mainstream scientific/academic community know or behave that way? No. So they're preaching to the wrong person.

[Voltaire's Child]

Total projection.

I simply state not 'what I believe' but what is and is provable. Facts.

It is LCH amongst others who attempts to redefine 'truth' as whatever one decides that they want it to be. A recipe for pulling the wool over their eyes as they gleefully ride into isolation.

I said nothing about your beliefs.

I don't know what LCH is and your last sentence proves my point.

[Voltaire's Child]

The plasma auric fields, for example, are physical, albeit very tenuous. Just need to get the instrumentation sensitive enough. There's a gradient scale between 100% spirit and 100% matter, not absolutes.

Paul


I think that's very true, that it isn't all 100% one or the other. I'm just not convinced that the mainstream scientific/academic community feels that way. Based on their writings, I'd say they don't.

[Mark A. Baker]

I think that's very true, that it isn't all 100% one or the other. I'm just not convinced that the mainstream scientific/academic community feels that way. Based on their writings, I'd say they don't.


Scientism is popular among scientists. It's a kind of "intellectual machismo". :)

"Immaterial metaphysics? I don't need no stinkin' immaterial metaphysics!" :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker

[Zinjifar]

Now that *that* strawman is beaten to a pulp...

Shall we excoriate the badminton players who actually want to batter birdies?

Zinj

[lionheart]

So, as we were saying about Past Lives .....

[Mark A. Baker]

So, as we were saying about Past Lives .....

Huh? Say what? ... :confused2:


Mark A. Baker :coolwink:

[Voltaire's Child]

I didn't see any strawmen. We were all posting what we thought and the discussion went where it went.

[guanoloco]

True, if you have the bad luck of thinking your were "someone famous" you just might be crazy. But crazy people do not doubt themselves and if you really were Christ you would feel like shit to see what you have caused on this planet. Ron found Karl Marx in Australia I think and the guy felt like crap, even wrote him a sorry note and signed it like Karl Marx. :clap:

Like they say, "It's not because you are a megalomaniac that you are not God." or "It's not because you are paranoid that they aren't after you".

You can use Self-Analysis to shake up your recall, you'll hit whole track sooner or later. PAB 7 helps too. Handbook for preclear also... I never got formal auditing from an auditor and have had incredible wins, nothing like getting yourself up by your own bootstraps. And OSA has no PC folders from where to pull crap to bother me with. On Topix they resorted to lying despicably about me. Gorgeous.

Pascal, I don't remember reading or hearing this. Can you tell me where I can find this?

Thanks, guano