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View Full Version : Travolta and Preston Gearing Up for 'Silent Birth'



thefiredragon
16th November 2010, 04:36 AM
http://www.popeater.com/2010/11/15/john-travolta-kelly-preston-scientology-silent-birth/

:yes:

Sir Facer
16th November 2010, 09:45 AM
http://www.popeater.com/2010/11/15/john-travolta-kelly-preston-scientology-silent-birth/

:yes:

Big deal! Who cares about how JT & KP decide which way they have thier own baby! seriously Big deal! Im glad they are having another baby & if they want to deliver it as peacefully as they can go for it! Calm birthing ideas have been around for eons and its actually sensible to try and have as peaceful environment as possible due to the circumstances. Seriously this kind of crap keeps many away. Lets get fcking real! all magazines just print "old news" just like Scxientologists giving silent births, its boring yawn yawn old news! No offence Thefiredragon to you, Im just over hearing the same old, same old!

Mystic
16th November 2010, 09:58 AM
A birth to Ludwig's 9th Symphony 4th Movement might be nice.

Infinite
16th November 2010, 10:49 AM
Although L Ron Hubbard preferred womankind to suffer in silence, at least he did provide some back ground music which might soothe the process . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGNHa8IH91k

SchwimmelPuckel
16th November 2010, 11:04 AM
Hmm.. So according to the 'Engrams theory' the mother must not scream.. But you can't yell at her to shut up.. The yell: 'Shut UP!!' will become an 'engram' causing the baby to be a mute...

Of course you can't 'drug' the mother either. That's a big no-no according to Scientology scripture.

So you will need to have prepared signs with text on 'em to shove in the face of the mother.. Signs that says 'Be silent!'. 'Shut UP!!' and 'Shut the Fuck UP!!'

I'm just trying to be helpful....

:whistling:

Sindy
16th November 2010, 12:57 PM
Scientologists don't believe you shouldn't talk to you child for a week. Also, this statement, "The couple will follow the church's guidelines during delivery," I'm sure that they wouldn't have put it that way. They might have said, "We've decided to follow the procedure as laid out in Dianetics", the church doesn't dictate how a public person has a birth. It's a choice. There are no guidelines, as such. This article was poorly written. BTW, the silent birth is one of the things in Scientology that I believe to be very useful. The kids I have seen, born this way, are awesome and very happy and calm.

I told you I was trouble
16th November 2010, 01:06 PM
I also like this concept and was interested in it due to Frederick Leboyer (Birth without violence) ... the French obstetrician who has written some beautiful books on the subject.



http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Leboyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Leboyer)

thefiredragon
16th November 2010, 02:20 PM
the silent birth is one of the things in Scientology that I believe to be very useful. The kids I have seen, born this way, are awesome and very happy and calm.

Me too. I had 4 kids and I was trying to be as quet as I could during birth and also did everything I could to be very careful during the time I was pregnant.

thefiredragon
16th November 2010, 02:27 PM
I also like this concept and was interested in it due to Frederick Leboyer (Birth without violence) ... the French obstetrician who has written some beautiful books on the subject.



http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Leboyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Leboyer)

Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:I'd like to read those books

Alanzo
16th November 2010, 02:52 PM
Hmm.. So according to the 'Engrams theory' the mother must not scream.. But you can't yell at her to shut up.. The yell: 'Shut UP!!' will become an 'engram' causing the baby to be a mute...

:whistling:

It might cause him to be constipated later in life, too.

A constipated mute.

Now that would suck.

thefiredragon
16th November 2010, 03:10 PM
Alanzo, you're ex-auditor. Please don't tell me that you too think that there is no such a thing as an engram
I have lots of doubts about auditing on higher levels,but lower levels is something that I never doubted.
And I had some troubles with my pcs running some whole track stuff but book 1 auditing always worked, I never had any pc that couldnot locate any engrams. I have audited kids's births and their parents apart when I had doubts and their stories were always the same. I even had audited some kids infront of their parents if they doubted dianetics and I can say,what is true for me, true for me.
-----

Friend
16th November 2010, 03:46 PM
SchimmelPuckel!!!!!
The mother maybe gets an engram by reading the signs and for not being able to scream. Don't you feel better after cussing?; it's a way to release hold in emotions. If the mother laugh to show enjoyment; it can be engramic too and maybe you wont be able stop laughing especially in situation you shouldn't laugh.
Sooner or later you will get the engrams in the cult. We all know that.
I got some too from them.

God knows best.



Hmm.. So according to the 'Engrams theory' the mother must not scream.. But you can't yell at her to shut up.. The yell: 'Shut UP!!' will become an 'engram' causing the baby to be a mute...

Of course you can't 'drug' the mother either. That's a big no-no according to Scientology scripture.

So you will need to have prepared signs with text on 'em to shove in the face of the mother.. Signs that says 'Be silent!'. 'Shut UP!!' and 'Shut the Fuck UP!!'

I'm just trying to be helpful....

:whistling:

Alanzo
16th November 2010, 03:58 PM
Alanzo, you're ex-auditor. Please don't tell me that you too think that there is no such a thing as an engram
I have lots of doubts about auditing on higher levels,but lower levels is something that I never doubted.
And I had some troubles with my pcs running some whole track stuff but book 1 auditing always worked, I never had any pc that couldnot locate any engrams. I have audited kids's births and their parents apart when I had doubts and their stories were always the same. I even had audited some kids infront of their parents if they doubted dianetics and I can say,what is true for me, true for me.
-----

There are times of pain and unconsciousness, yes. And there are past traumatic incidents in peoples' lives which affect them afterwards.

However, whether recalling those incidents over and over is the best way to overcome these affects is not a certainty. And the state of "Clear" as described by L Ron Hubbard has never been acheived despite 60 years of Dianetic delivery to Hubbard's exact specifications.

Whether an engram "command" causes this or that is completely unproven, as is everything else having to do with Dianetics and Scientology.

Remember, when reviewing your experiences as an auditor, if you want to really ascertain what caused what, and what "works" in Dianetics and Scientology, you have to count the "misses" right along with the "hits".

You can't just think of the times that dianetics seemed to "work" and forget the times when it did not.

This is what the Church does, and they constantly drill this into their adherents. It is no way to determine the workability of anything.

A good way to approach this is to go outside of Scientology and OBJECTIVELY look at other approaches to help people with mental issues. You will find a wide range of approaches that ARE scientifically tested and which do have high degrees of workability.

Going "earlier similar" is not the only way to skin a cat.

thefiredragon
16th November 2010, 04:39 PM
.

Whether an engram "command" causes this or that is completely unproven, as is everything else having to do with Dianetics and Scientology.

.

I remember my first PC (she came on dianetics ceminar) and got into prenatal area right away. That was awesome. She never read "dianetics before.

I also knew another girl who really liked book 1 auditing but was rejecting anything that had to do with scientology. When she was asked "are you scientologist?" she would reply "No, I'm dianeticst".
--------------
BTW,when I left the cult for the fist time, my son had to have a surgery. I was so pissed at church and thought scientology was all B.S but even though, I was pissed, I still asked the doctor to be quet during the surgery.
And he respected that. I thought, well, my son has nothing to do with that, he does not need to have lots of engrams just because I think scn is B.S. To me , it still was real and knowing that, how could I do that to my own kid?
---

Zinjifar
17th November 2010, 06:21 PM
Assume you've convinced people that tiny red fairies float around in your bloodstream and that you can contact them telepathically. How long do you think it would take to have someone actually believe they'd been telepathically in 'comm' with those fairies?

About as long as it takes to find an 'engram' (or a BT).

Zinj

thefiredragon
17th November 2010, 06:27 PM
Assume you've convinced people that tiny red fairies float around in your bloodstream and that you can contact them telepathically. How long do you think it would take to have someone actually believe they'd been telepathically in 'comm' with those fairies?

About as long as it takes to find an 'engram' (or a BT).

Zinj

No offence, Zinjifar, I don't know much about you, but have you gotten any auditing, ever?

:unsure:

Auditor's Toad
17th November 2010, 06:42 PM
"No offence, Zinjifar, I don't know much about you, but have you gotten any auditing, ever? "

I have gotten auditing and I daresay a hell of a lot more than you have.

So, you want to play 'I-got-more-auditing-than you' or 'I-gave-more-auditing than-you' or 'I-was- higher- classed- auditor- than- you- and I'll bet dollars to donuts there are a whole of people here who did lots more of each than you. And that means jackshit unless you are still a "believer" in his Holiness Old Gay Ron.

You can believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and present PHYSICAL evidence for the truth of each... well, as long as you are a child.

You are so sold on auditing ... can you present ONE clear in the last 60 years?
Or one OT ?

Real solid proof at least equal to what my 4 year old can prove about the Tooth Fairy?

I'm done buying the BS of the tech works* and I hope one day you stop trying to sell it.



*Yeah, there are some workable pieces of the tech but the parts that don't work are outright dangerous.

Auditor's Toad
17th November 2010, 06:44 PM
Hey now, maybe that Tomato Plant Old Ron audited went clear..... is that the missing clear?

Good twin
17th November 2010, 06:52 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

Auditor's Toad
17th November 2010, 06:52 PM
Anyway, any remotely sane person who realizes the stages a woman goes through in childbirth... and then throw in scn's love of communication and somehow come out with the right thing to do is not allow a woman to communicate while she is giving birth? Insane!

The Germans did an experiment with babies and didn't touch them. They all died.

Now the scio's want silence for 7 days . Can't have babies in the SO, so kill /em off after they are born? Hip! Hip! Hooray!

WHat happened to that introduce the baby to the new parents? Skip that, too?

Folks, it gets crazier by the day.

Maybe there is something to that thread that was Ron was gay and DM is gay - and they are against reproduction?

Weird stuff.

Auditor's Toad
17th November 2010, 06:53 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing!

Agreed.

Wisened One
17th November 2010, 06:57 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

I agree, GT. YOU ARE AMAZING! :yes:

SchwimmelPuckel
17th November 2010, 07:57 PM
SchimmelPuckel!!!!!
The mother maybe gets an engram by reading the signs and for not being able to scream. Don't you feel better after cussing?; it's a way to release hold in emotions. If the mother laugh to show enjoyment; it can be engramic too and maybe you wont be able stop laughing especially in situation you shouldn't laugh.
Sooner or later you will get the engrams in the cult. We all know that.
I got some too from them.

God knows best.Holy dead mackerel!! - You're right! - She'd get an engram with WRITTEN content! - Laid in over the Hubbard implant that: 'if it's not written it's not true'! - And she'd be convinced that she 'pulled it in'.. Another Hubbard implant!

Shit! - Her 'case' would be all fucked! - She'd be an incalculable income source for the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology!

Man! -We really shouldn't tell the CoS registrars about stuff like this!

:nervous:

Auditor's Toad
17th November 2010, 08:09 PM
"Man! -We really shouldn't tell the CoS registrars about stuff like this!"

Oh Shit ! Regs already attend the funeral with the (adult) child of a wealthy parent who croaked. Ride in the funeral car and reg 'em on the way to the burial.

Now you suggest regs be present at the birth of a child to wealthy parents?

Clever !

The regs better give you a cut for that hot tip

:omg: And the real reason everyone has to be quiet at a birth is so the reg will not be interupted !

ensifer
17th November 2010, 08:16 PM
Crap. Did I screw up? I insisted that AC/DC be played at volume 11 during each of my children's births. Their mother resisted, but she was too drugged up... so it was futile.

Rene Descartes
17th November 2010, 08:41 PM
It might cause him to be constipated later in life, too.

A constipated mute.

Now that would suck.

Damn alanzo, you really studied that SHSBC well.

HUZZAH!!

Rd00

AngeloV
17th November 2010, 08:42 PM
Not having the woman say anything during birth is unnatural. Unnatural because women have been giving birth for 10's of thousands of years and when they feel the pain they scream. It is natural to yell, moan, scream and shout when you are in that much pain.

IF you believe in past lives then you have been born thousands perhaps millions of times. Hearing your mother yell or your father/midwife/doctor say the things people say at a birth, should be so fucking old and repetitive that they couldn't have any affect on you.

Baby: "Geez I feel like I'm being squashed"
Mom: Ahhhhhhhhhhh!
Baby: Wow, thats better....no wait it's really cold now! Waaaaaaaa" (baby crying)
Baby: (thinking) "Oh yeah, this again. Wonder when they'll wrap a blanket around me? And where is that tit? I'm hungry!"

SchwimmelPuckel
17th November 2010, 08:44 PM
Crap. Did I screw up? I insisted that AC/DC be played at volume 11 during each of my children's births. Their mother resisted, but she was too drugged up... so it was futile.I dare say you did screw up big time!

Take a look at this engram content:

ROCKER
(1975) (Young, Young, Scott)
I'm a rocker
I'm a roller
I'm a right out of controller
I'm a wheeler
I'm a dealer
I'm a wicked woman stealer
I'm a bruiser
I'm a cruiser
I'm a rockin' rollin' man.
Got slicked back hair
Skin tight jeans
Cadillac car
And a teenage dream.
I'm a rocker
I'm a roller
A rockin' rollin' man
Got lorex socks
Blue suede shoes
V8 car
And tattoos
I'm a rocker
I'm a roller
A rockin' rollin' man
Wayward kids! - (Gotta love 'em!)

:yes:

Zinjifar
17th November 2010, 08:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbCLEkILIpY

Zinj

FoTi
17th November 2010, 09:04 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

GT, could you do all these things prior to your auditor training?

Good twin
18th November 2010, 01:14 AM
GT, could you do all these things prior to your auditor training?

Apparently, I could. I reconnected with some folks who knew me before and they said I was always a good listener and very insightful and perceptive. I was surprised. I'm still investigating myself.......

auntpat
18th November 2010, 03:55 AM
Back in the old days, there was a Doctor John in Omaha. Durig baby delivery he made the hospital personell refrain from talking.

He also would welcome the baby to the planet Earth, to Omaha, Nebraska. Introduced him to his Mom and Dad if present. Before the nurses took the baby to the nursery he would gently touch different parts of its body and name it. Like this is your foot, this is your mouth, etc.

At first the nurses laughed at him, not to his face. But eventually they told him that his babies were the calmest and the more content babies and some times the nurses would do the naming of body parts in the nursery.

I know because Dr. John was my preclear, and told me.

Love & Light,
Aunt Pat

thefiredragon
18th November 2010, 04:27 AM
He also would welcome the baby to the planet Earth, to Omaha, Nebraska. Introduced him to his Mom and Dad if present. Before the nurses took the baby to the nursery he would gently touch different parts of its body and name it. Like this is your foot, this is your mouth, etc.

At first the nurses laughed at him, not to his face. But eventually they told him that his babies were the calmest and the more content babies and some times the nurses would do the naming of body parts in the nursery.





:thumbsup:

Sharone Stainforth
18th November 2010, 04:44 AM
Have you ever given birth?

Silent?

It would take nothing short of a miracle to give birth silently,just ask the majority of the women in the world. Did you give birth silently? You'll be amazed by their answers.

supafreak
18th November 2010, 06:17 AM
If Scientology is that worried about silent birth, why don't they update the tech to say that you can only give birth by caesarean section under general anaesthesia?

freet43
18th November 2010, 06:49 AM
and the baby!

Wishing them a speedy and peaceful time and a joyous birth.

PS. From someone who had two silent and speedy and relatively pain free deliveries (not even an aspirin needed!), the idea that giving birth is a horrific ordeal and must be painful and long is a complete fallacy!
Giving birth, if done naturally, is a joyful event.

Marina




Hmm.. So according to the 'Engrams theory' the mother must not scream.. But you can't yell at her to shut up.. The yell: 'Shut UP!!' will become an 'engram' causing the baby to be a mute...

Of course you can't 'drug' the mother either. That's a big no-no according to Scientology scripture.

So you will need to have prepared signs with text on 'em to shove in the face of the mother.. Signs that says 'Be silent!'. 'Shut UP!!' and 'Shut the Fuck UP!!'

I'm just trying to be helpful....

:whistling:

freet43
18th November 2010, 07:16 AM
Sharon,

You are propagating the general agreement in western civilization that childbirth is long, painful, arduous. That is not the agreement in many so-called less "civilized" cultures, where childbirth is a completely natural event.

No miracle necessary - just a different viewpoint and different actions during childbirth...

The real problems are that western medical convention encourages certain behaviors that extend labor, and if women would be encouraged to do several very simple things and give birth as the ancient peoples did, many of the problems would disappear.

The main problem is that the woman should NOT be in a bed- that position is extremely unnatural for giving birth...instead the woman should be encouraged to walk during all of labor - that greatly speeds up the labor and also physically that upright position causes pressure in the correct part of the body.

Also, the epidurals that are given to many women, not only cause serious side effects but also slow down the childbirth process Epidurals never made sense to me, because they are only done once the woman is completely dilated and ready to push. For most women it is the dilation process, not the pushing out of the baby, that is painful. Once pushing starts, there is no pain, because of a physiological process the body gives off a natural anesthetic. But, women demand an epidural, which makes it difficult to push... never made any sense to me.

I'm going to get a bit graphic here, so be forewarned.

I'm not sure how I knew this, but somehow i just knew what to do. My husband and I had gone to Lamaze, but no mention was made of walking during labor to sped things up. With my first child walking is what felt right to me, and the baby was born within less than 3 hours from the first sign of labor.

Likely it would have been even less time, however when I showed up at the hospital less than 2 hours after labor started and told the receptionist that I was ready to push, they did not believe me. The hospital area was very busy and there were women waiting before me. After insisting, a nurse finally got me in to a room and examined me and couldn't believe that I was ready to push. They needed to round up a doctor and told me not to push...so more time went by. Finally, they made me get in the bed and use their normal stirrup setup...ughhh.... obviously that setup was devised by some male doc that was clueless about the birthing process....

With my second child, I decided to go with a nurse-midwife, and was told since my first delivery was so quick that I should get myself to the hospital at the first inkling of labor symptoms. My second child was born within an hour and a half, and I gave birth the natural way - not in a bed...

No pain, no meds, silent...

I like to share my experience with young women who are pregnant, and several that have followed my advice have also had quick and relatively pain free natural births...

Marina


Have you ever given birth?

Silent?

It would take nothing short of a miracle to give birth silently,just ask the majority of the women in the world. Did you give birth silently? You'll be amazed by their answers.

freet43
18th November 2010, 07:53 AM
but consider this

if not for Scientology, would you have had all those people in front of you to help and care for and that had amazing gains?

Marina


I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

SchwimmelPuckel
18th November 2010, 10:03 AM
<snip for brevity> With my second child, I decided to go with a nurse-midwife, and was told since my first delivery was so quick that I should get myself to the hospital at the first inkling of labor symptoms. My second child was born within an hour and a half, and I gave birth the natural way - not in a bed...

No pain, no meds, silent...

I like to share my experience with young women who are pregnant, and several that have followed my advice have also had quick and relatively pain free natural births...

MarinaWell, I tend to agree with you on all that. Based on it sounding logical.. I havn't seen such a birth, or known anyone who did it..

I was present when my two boys was squeezed into the world. Western hospital style.. The mom wanted to stand up, leaning on the bed, during the dilation which was obviously quite painful and took a long time, 5 hours at least.. And for some strange reason I could make her pain go almost away by pressing my thumbs in the small of her back. I don't recall how I, or she, got the idea to do that... We were observing silence too, not saying anything anyway, but my wife did scream.

Oh hell.. It was the most terrifying experience I ever had.. But that was all forgotten the moment the little boy screamed in dismay over being squeezed out and getting slapped on the bum..

:yes:

Infinite
18th November 2010, 11:41 AM
Yeah. Scientology works and it helps people, eh, Jett?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS3PkaScUMuHsSskOMviSz7-5KtNWmm6ff8IEUxHVAifgMU5Bf

Panda Termint
18th November 2010, 12:03 PM
What a cruel, heartless comment.

Good twin
18th November 2010, 12:26 PM
but consider this

if not for Scientology, would you have had all those people in front of you to help and care for and that had amazing gains?

Marina

No. I don't regret my experience, but I have moved on. If I hadn't left the Scientology matrix I would still believe that Scientology is what is right about me. Only by leaving was I able to find out that I was what was right about Scientology.

Sir Facer
18th November 2010, 12:43 PM
Yeah. Scientology works and it helps people, eh, Jett?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS3PkaScUMuHsSskOMviSz7-5KtNWmm6ff8IEUxHVAifgMU5Bf

This kind of crap post needs to be removed! what the fuck kind of asshole are You BLIP...your a dick head, you should take this off! this is the kind of bullshit that needs to be seriously taken off this board, its fucking down right COLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thefiredragon
18th November 2010, 12:51 PM
Sharon,



The main problem is that the woman should NOT be in a bed- that position is extremely unnatural for giving birth...instead the woman should be encouraged to walk during all of labor - that greatly speeds up the labor and also physically that upright position causes pressure in the correct part of the body.

Marina

This is so true. When I was pregnant with my first kid, I walked about 5 blocks to my checkup apoitment and they called 911 right away, I had no idea I was in labor,had no pain at all as soon as I got to the hospital, (I still did not believe Iwas in labor, I had a baby,like.. in 15 minutes. Whith my second kid, I went to doa sonogram and I was told, "it's a boy, and now goto the go to the hospital" I walked there and as soon as I got admited to the hospital, I had contractions for like,20 min,may be and I had a kid. With my
3dkid Iwas inlabor for about half an hour,also nomeds or anything. Then with my youngest daughter I was not in labor at first. It was my son's birthay and I was eating a cake.I told tomy fincee that it wouldbe fun to have a kid on my son's birthday and we werejoking about it , that they would have to share the cake.And Iwent into labor. Iwalked to the hospital (about 4blocks away) and they admited eright away. I sent my fiancee home to get a bag with y staff and was waiting on him.I fell asleep and thenwoke up because Ifelt that somethingbad happen,I slept for about 3 hr and he was not back yet. Then a thetan told me that she is not picking a body till her dad is back and that somebody attacked her dad andhe is in pain. Then the nurce came to me and confurmed it. Some guys attacked my fiancee and broke his jaw and ribs and he was in emergency room. A few hours later he came (all stuffed with painkillers and said he wouldnot miss his daughter's birth for the world and as soon he came into the room, I went in labor. The doctor told me not to push yet and left the room to see if she can talk to another doctor about putting me to sleep.I freaked out(because Iwas strongly against drugs) and comanded to a thetan to take the body right now. And about 5 min later I had a baby, the doctor was shocked,my fiance had to call the nurce as soon as he saw the baby comming.
~~~~~~~~~~~
So,walking does works. It speeds up the labor and relieves the pain :yes:

Infinite
18th November 2010, 12:55 PM
Here's some more people Scientology has helped . . .

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4826263838_165143f77d.jpg

OTBT
18th November 2010, 01:39 PM
Now the scio's want silence for 7 days.

I believe that is mostly tabloid hearsay. Any scientology HCOB or other written tech to back up the 7 day claim?

Panda Termint
18th November 2010, 01:43 PM
Nope. The references used by most scientologists are Hubbard's statements in DMSMH and the Leboyer Birth Method (being the closest *medically* accepted method) and Leboyer books discussed earlier in the thread

thefiredragon
18th November 2010, 02:28 PM
I believe that is mostly tabloid hearsay. Any scientology HCOB or other written tech to back up the 7 day claim?


No. There is no such a thing about 7 days claim. This is from Child dianetics:
Prenatal Life:
Be silent during and after the sex act.
During pregnancy be silent at times of injury, during ap-
plications of first aid, doctor's examinations, illness, and opera-
tions involving the expectant mother.
Be silent but helpful after electric shocks, bumps and jars to
the mother's body.
Be silent after the mother coughs or sneezes.
Arrange for silence when a general anesthesia is administered
to the mother. Where there is a choice, local anesthesia is
always preferable.
If your aberrations, environment or social set compel you to
drink to excess, for posterity's sake learn to do it in complete
silence.
Birth::yes:
Arrange for absolute silence during labor and birth.
2. Observe silence during moments of emotional disturb-
ances involving the expectant mother or child. During mo-
ments of crying or fear, rub the pre-clear's back firmly and
gently, preferably with skin contact, but be silent and make all
physical movements slow and understandable. Do not argue
with, or within the hearing of mother or child.
:yes:

Infinite
18th November 2010, 02:57 PM
No. There is no such a thing about 7 days claim. This is from Child dianetics:
Prenatal Life:
Be silent during and after the sex act.
During pregnancy be silent at times of injury, during ap-
plications of first aid, doctor's examinations, illness, and opera-
tions involving the expectant mother.
Be silent but helpful after electric shocks, bumps and jars to
the mother's body.
Be silent after the mother coughs or sneezes.
Arrange for silence when a general anesthesia is administered
to the mother. Where there is a choice, local anesthesia is
always preferable.
If your aberrations, environment or social set compel you to
drink to excess, for posterity's sake learn to do it in complete
silence.
Birth::yes:
Arrange for absolute silence during labor and birth.
2. Observe silence during moments of emotional disturb-
ances involving the expectant mother or child. During mo-
ments of crying or fear, rub the pre-clear's back firmly and
gently, preferably with skin contact, but be silent and make all
physical movements slow and understandable. Do not argue
with, or within the hearing of mother or child.

In other words, if you're a woman and you're pregnant, shut the fuck up.

Nicole
18th November 2010, 03:09 PM
In other words, if you're a woman and you're pregnant, shut the fuck up.

Yes, she should and everybody in the room. It is evil! Each mother should do during the birth, what she wants to do!

The prevention of engrams starts before or during birth. “People have scores of prenatal engrams when they are normal. They can have more than two hundred. And each one is aberrative. Each contains pain and ‘unconsciousness’.” [Dianetics 1994, 172.] Hubbard invented several case histories. A boy of seven developed asthma following a prenatal experience at 4 months when his mother had acute bronchitis. Jimmy aged ten remembered a painful experience 8 days after conception. [Child Dianetics 1974, 120-122.] It is difficult to understand how anyone could believe him.
To prevent the creation of engrams one should start during pregnancy and apply what Hubbard called Preventive Dianetics [Child Dianetics 1974, 37]. “Everyone must learn to say nothing within the expectant mother’s hearing while she is hurt or ill, or during labor and delivery. Particularly during birth must absolute silence be maintained, and the more gentle the delivery, the better.” [Child Dianetics 1974, 37]
Since any injury to the mother can give her unborn child an engram, “anyone likely to be in contact with a pregnant woman should also be instructed to remain absolutely silent if she happens to suffer some accident or injury. Silence is the first rule, and nothing at all should be said if it can be avoided.” This rule equally applies to the mother. Hubbard’s hypothetical pregnant mothers were liable to a considerable and surprising level of violence. The reaction of a husband learning that his wife is pregnant is to strike her in the abdomen while raving: “Get out! Get out! I know you haven’t been true to me! You were no virgin when I married you. I should have killed you long ago! Now you’re pregnant! Get out!” [Dianetics New Era edition 1994, 275.] There is much, much more of this. If it reflects anything in real life, it is the violence in Hubbard’s own marriages.
Hubbard applied the rule of silence to the birthing process. “A child … should have a silent, as painless as possible, birth. The delivery itself should … be as calm and mute as possible.” [Kurt Helmuth Eimuth, 1997, 67.] Directly after the birth, “the doctor will lay the child on the mother’s abdomen even before the cord is cut, and as soon as the cord is cut and tied, the mother will give the caressing and nursing.” [Child Dianetics 1974, 75] In fact, despite the nod in the direction of natural child-birth, Scientology rejects the breast-feeding of babies and even recommends that the newly-born baby should not be bathed but wrapped quite tightly in a blanket and left without human contact for a day, or even for three days, according to some sources. The actual working is rather quaint: “Next, the delivery itself should carry as little anaesthetic as possible, be as calm and no-talk as possible and the baby should not be bathed or chilled (sic) but should be wrapped somewhat tightly in a warm blanket, very soft, and then left alone for a day or so.” [L. Ron Hubbard, HCO Bulletin of 20 December 1958, "Processing a new mother", http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/f6427787a2b548ac] This in itself would be enough to break the link between mother and child, causing psychological damage, besides making it difficult to establish breast-feeding.
The rejection of breast-feeding means that a baby born into the cult may never feel close to its mother. Research done over a long period by psychologists John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth demonstrates that an insecure emotional attachment to the parents is the major factor in psychological problems with older children. Bowlby’s work in ‘attachment theory’ lead to the conclusion that ‘If a community values its children, it must cherish their parents’. [John Bowlby, Maternal Care and Mental Health, WHO Monograph 2, 1951, 84].
http://kindseininscientology.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/small-adults-with-no-childhood-children-in-scientology/

AngeloV
18th November 2010, 03:11 PM
No. There is no such a thing about 7 days claim. This is from Child dianetics:
Prenatal Life:
Be silent during and after the sex act.
During pregnancy be silent at times of injury, during ap-
plications of first aid, doctor's examinations, illness, and opera-
tions involving the expectant mother.
Be silent but helpful after electric shocks, bumps and jars to
the mother's body.
Be silent after the mother coughs or sneezes.
Arrange for silence when a general anesthesia is administered
to the mother. Where there is a choice, local anesthesia is
always preferable.
If your aberrations, environment or social set compel you to
drink to excess, for posterity's sake learn to do it in complete
silence.
Birth::yes:
Arrange for absolute silence during labor and birth.
2. Observe silence during moments of emotional disturb-
ances involving the expectant mother or child. During mo-
ments of crying or fear, rub the pre-clear's back firmly and
gently, preferably with skin contact, but be silent and make all
physical movements slow and understandable. Do not argue
with, or within the hearing of mother or child.
:yes:

Staying silent is completely without merit and has not been proven to prevent 'engrams' or whatever the hell you call them. You just swallowed LRH's bulls**t hook, line and sinker. He fabricated this crap out of thin air with no testing whatsoever. And I think its cruel to make the mother shut up and take the pain without being able to say a word.

To those women who posted that their birthing experiences were pain-free or low pain, that's wonderful. Consider yourself lucky because the vast majority of women experience pain and a lot of it. And 'walking around' or standing or squating while giving birth does not prevent pain for everyone.

Sharone Stainforth
18th November 2010, 03:24 PM
freet 43 wrote:

The real problems are that western medical convention encourages certain behaviors that extend labor, and if women would be encouraged to do several very simple things and give birth as the ancient peoples did, many of the problems would disappear.

The main problem is that the woman should NOT be in a bed- that position is extremely unnatural for giving birth...instead the woman should be encouraged to walk during all of labor - that greatly speeds up the labor and also physically that upright position causes pressure in the correct part of the body.

Also, the epidurals that are given to many women, not only cause serious side effects but also slow down the childbirth process Epidurals never made sense to me, because they are only done once the woman is completely dilated and ready to push. For most women it is the dilation process, not the pushing out of the baby, that is painful. Once pushing starts, there is no pain, because of a physiological process the body gives off a natural anesthetic. But, women demand an epidural, which makes it difficult to push... never made any sense to me.

Marina,

I agree with you, however here in western society there are many different factors that add up to a painful birth. Everyone is different.

With my first child I was relatively young and having no one really to discuss childbirth with just went a long with what the medical proffession told me. I was in labour 13 hours, it was painful and I was left in a room on my own for much of it. The midwife a matronly woman in her 60s had never had any children and she knew best. When I was found crawling around on my hands and knees which was less painful, I was promptly put back on my back in bed by two women who knew better. I was also on a drug called pethadine which kept knocking me out.

Funny thing about pethadine, instead of knocking you out when you have the contractions, which were painful, it knocks you out between them. When the contractions start, you wake up and it hurt, a lot.

Years later when I had my second child, I knew a lot more. I was determined to have a completely natural birth. I was doing it my way. I wanted a home birth, but due to having had ME(myalgic encephamylitus) prior to being pregnant and living in a rural area was told I could not. Not to be out done, I insisted I was having no drugs, I wanted a birthing stool as I intended to give birth as naturally as possible. I was told I couldn't just squat which is what I wanted to do.

When the time came my baby being almost three weeks late, I went for a check up because they said they needed to induce me. At the check up, I was told I was in labour. I did not know this. There were no contractions. They insisted they had to keep me in there and then, I told them NO, I had to go home and milk my goats.This got a few funny looks. As it happened after the Doctor requested a bed and was told there weren't any, reluctantly they let me go home.

It was another eight hours before I went into labour. The labour lasted a damned long time, I didn't actually give birth til the following evening. I walked and walked and walked round that hospital. The most unnatural place to have a baby. I refused all medication. I was in agony and exhausted and finally agreed after much persuasion to have the pethadine, as I was told I would be too exhausted to push if I kept this up.I had the pethadine about three hours before I gave birth.The birthing stool never materialised.I was on my back again.

Under the influence of pethadine, I ripped the fluids that were been given me and attached to my hand on a couple of occasions off. I had my husband there for the birth and it wasn't until I had had the baby and finally was myself again I noticed his neck was really red and scratched. I had done that whilst having contractions.

Having said all that, I was elated, up on cloud 9 after giving birth to both of my children.

thefiredragon
18th November 2010, 03:34 PM
What do you guys know about giving birth in the water?
I've heard about it but don't know anybody who have done it

Infinite
18th November 2010, 03:34 PM
Yes, she should and everybody in the room. It is evil! Each mother should do during the birth, what she wants to do!

Yep. The whole Scientology approach to child birth is the manifestation of L Ron Hubbard's misogyny. Freud would would have a field day analysing Hubbard's relationship with his own mother, not to mention the relationships he had with his various children.

It defies logic, basic common sense, and general human decency that anyone would consider L Ron Hubbard as having anything of value to say about family relationships, let alone childbirth.

Sassy
18th November 2010, 03:41 PM
Any woman that can give birth without making any sounds is a hero in my book. I had my first child with about 5 hours of labor to the delivery, 2nd child with about 1.5 hours so I was extremely lucky but it still hurt like hell! Trust me too, I made plenty of sounds.

I'm surprised that they don't have a C-section planned for KP due to her age. Hats off to her if she can do it on her own.

Alanzo
18th November 2010, 03:45 PM
The quiet birth thing, the no taking aspirin thing, and so many other things in Scientology that interrupt what is normally done by regular people, seem to me to be Hubbard's way of inserting control into a person's psyche which tells them "You are a Scientologist."

If you can get someone to follow rules, or to be bound by a moral code or code of behavior, you can continually remind them who they are. And soon they will tell themselves to be who you want them to be.

I can't tell you what a relief it was to finally take aspirin again.

Jesus Christ I suffered so needlessly because I was a Scientologist. But it was what made me a Scientologist in a very real way. It was a distinction of myself to others.

Sharone Stainforth
18th November 2010, 03:58 PM
The fire dragon wrote:


What do you guys know about giving birth in the water?
I've heard about it but don't know anybody who have done it

I watched a tv programme on it, and thought it was a really good idea. Initially I had enquired about this with my second child. At the time there were no facilities for this.

In the programme I watched it was a fabulous birth and very relaxed.This isn't the one I saw previously but this is wonderful and was my idea of what childbirth should have been.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3048256151268857268#

Infinite
18th November 2010, 04:00 PM
What a cruel, heartless comment.

Think again. By reminding people that, despite Scientology, Jett was autistic and, because of Scientology, died far too young, I am sending a warning to others who would follow this necromancy. My comment may appear to be cruel and heartless (what a banky response) to the adherents who would gloss over these facts and still seek to promote it, but to lurkers and the awakened it could well appear salient.

Multiple viewpoints and all that . . .

Nicole
18th November 2010, 04:10 PM
What do you guys know about giving birth in the water?
I've heard about it but don't know anybody who have done it

I tried it, but it wasn't my way to born my first child. I was inside and than I was out again.
I felt like a tiger in a cage.
Each woman is other and each woman has to find her way to burn a child.
I had to walk and move, sit and stand and SHOUT!

...and I have very nice and lovely kids. :yes:

Infinite
18th November 2010, 04:24 PM
This kind of crap post needs to be removed! what the fuck kind of asshole are You BLIP...your a dick head, you should take this off! this is the kind of bullshit that needs to be seriously taken off this board, its fucking down right COLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/midfinger3fp.gif

Sharone Stainforth
18th November 2010, 04:29 PM
In 1974 when I had my first child, I was too young. In 1991 when I had my second child I was deemed too old.

In 1974 knowing no better I was told bottle feeding was better for the child. So I went along with it. This came from male doctors and midwifes who had never had children.

In 1991 I had by then discovered all sorts of things and one of those was that womens breasts were for feeding children. The most natural thing in the world, Mothers milk.

In 1974 my baby was whisked away from me the minute it was born.She was placed in a crib and put in the room next door. I got out of bed and went and brought her in with me.

In 1991 I insisted I would hold my baby whilst still attached to the umbilical chord, which I did.

Giving birth is the most natural thing in the world and a woman should be well informed and allowed to make the choice of how to give birth to her child.

Nicole
18th November 2010, 05:08 PM
In 1974 when I had my first child, I was too young. In 1991 when I had my second child I was deemed too old.

In 1974 knowing no better I was told bottle feeding was better for the child. So I went along with it. This came from male doctors and midwifes who had never had children.

In 1991 I had by then discovered all sorts of things and one of those was that womens breasts were for feeding children. The most natural thing in the world, Mothers milk.

In 1974 my baby was whisked away from me the minute it was born.She was placed in a crib and put in the room next door. I got out of bed and went and brought her in with me.

In 1991 I insisted I would hold my baby whilst still attached to the umbilical chord, which I did.

Giving birth is the most natural thing in the world and a woman should be well informed and allowed to make the choice of how to give birth to her child.

Well spoken.

One midwife said to me, that lots of women are giving their human right of their own decision at the door to the labor room (Kreißsaal) away. Women knows instinctive what is good or wrong. They should hear at their instict.


I loved to nurse my babies with my milk. I enjoyed really this time. :yes:

Alanzo
18th November 2010, 06:01 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/midfinger3fp.gif
I think that clamps it.

BliP remains unrepentant and incorrigible - determined to say exactly what he wants with an extremely cavalier attitude and demeanor.

All I can say is, "Well!"

FinallyMe
18th November 2010, 06:01 PM
--- snip---the idea that giving birth is a horrific ordeal and must be painful and long is a complete fallacy!
Giving birth, if done naturally, is a joyful event.

Marina

Wow, I gotta disagree BIG TIME! I am willing to believe that YOU may have had an easy time of it, and therefore, I revise my belief to: it's different for each person. Not a good idea to decide that your own experience has to be true for everyone.

CarmeloOrchards
18th November 2010, 06:52 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

Without taking even an iota away from your certainty of self, but giving you an additional look from a picture that I think is larger and including you, I think there is a trifle bigger picture.

Bear with me, I'm fumbling for words and order of ideas to be written.

I don't think auditing is anything new under than the sun. My girlfriend in the 1970s was an archaeologist. She said that there were groups doing auditing / processing in Attic Greece.

I've audited my share of people pre physical universe and auditing was a job before the physical universe.

My youngest daughter, when she was just a kid actor under 12, was often the person of choice for make up, stylists, cameramen, and some execs to tell their stories, woes, and share with on a set filled with fifty other adults. She's 31 now. She networks with ease on airplanes and in any other setting.

When I was 17,a senior in high school, my girl friend was a student teacher at my high school. She had been my friend before she came to teach at the school. Things just developed by seeing her every day. She's my friend forty years later. One day while driving she said something to the effect that I was always loving. She was talking about who I am, whether I'm being a farm boy or hippie or a high school kid. It's my nature.

Some people are good at interacting with others and bringing on positive change.

When I just had an HSDC cert, I took a lady with systemic arthritis, who literally could not get out of bed to go to the bathroom, and in 18 months was jogging / walking par courses. There is more to auditing than the processes. Phil Spickler, an old dianeticist and scientologist from early 1950s, at the time said that those kind of results are more a sign of the auditor than the processes.

I don't usually try to brag. it doesn't feel right for me.

Good Twin,

Look at what you accomplish on this broad forum called ESMB, you bring people out. VD was your product most recently.

Call it anything, but you bring out good change. that is you.

I do that. My wife also. My daughter has always been doing that. Processes sometimes add to our ability to help somebody. There are just a few work horse processes that I use (in no particular order): prep checks, 2 way comm, incident running, and the power processes.


Anybody can say the words. One gets better results from being non judgmental, wanting the other person to really win, etc. Those who get better results with the same tools have something special. It can be taught (not necessarily in Scientology), but for some of us, it comes naturally.

I could take music lessons from now until Hell freezes Over, and I wouldn't be even a tenth of a percent as good as Paul McCartney is now. He is natively focused on music.

You are natively focused on people. This was true a million years ago. it will be true a thousand years from now.

thefiredragon
18th November 2010, 06:56 PM
The fire dragon wrote:



I watched a tv programme on it, and thought it was a really good idea. Initially I had enquired about this with my second child. At the time there were no facilities for this.

In the programme I watched it was a fabulous birth and very relaxed.This isn't the one I saw previously but this is wonderful and was my idea of what childbirth should have been.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3048256151268857268#

:thumbsup:Thanks for the video

supafreak
18th November 2010, 11:17 PM
Think again. By reminding people that, despite Scientology, Jett was autistic and, because of Scientology, died far too young, I am sending a warning to others who would follow this necromancy. My comment may appear to be cruel and heartless (what a banky response) to the adherents who would gloss over these facts and still seek to promote it, but to lurkers and the awakened it could well appear salient.

Multiple viewpoints and all that . . .

FWIW, the comment didn't faze me, but that's because I've spent quite a bit of time around Anons. The flip-off was uncalled-for though.

Good twin
19th November 2010, 01:15 AM
Without taking even an iota away from your certainty of self, but giving you an additional look from a picture that I think is larger and including you, I think there is a trifle bigger picture.

Bear with me, I'm fumbling for words and order of ideas to be written.

I don't think auditing is anything new under than the sun. My girlfriend in the 1970s was an archaeologist. She said that there were groups doing auditing / processing in Attic Greece.

I've audited my share of people pre physical universe and auditing was a job before the physical universe.

My youngest daughter, when she was just a kid actor under 12, was often the person of choice for make up, stylists, cameramen, and some execs to tell their stories, woes, and share with on a set filled with fifty other adults. She's 31 now. She networks with ease on airplanes and in any other setting.

When I was 17,a senior in high school, my girl friend was a student teacher at my high school. She had been my friend before she came to teach at the school. Things just developed by seeing her every day. She's my friend forty years later. One day while driving she said something to the effect that I was always loving. She was talking about who I am, whether I'm being a farm boy or hippie or a high school kid. It's my nature.

Some people are good at interacting with others and bringing on positive change.

When I just had an HSDC cert, I took a lady with systemic arthritis, who literally could not get out of bed to go to the bathroom, and in 18 months was jogging / walking par courses. There is more to auditing than the processes. Phil Spickler, an old dianeticist and scientologist from early 1950s, at the time said that those kind of results are more a sign of the auditor than the processes.

I don't usually try to brag. it doesn't feel right for me.

Good Twin,

Look at what you accomplish on this broad forum called ESMB, you bring people out. VD was your product most recently.

Call it anything, but you bring out good change. that is you.

I do that. My wife also. My daughter has always been doing that. Processes sometimes add to our ability to help somebody. There are just a few work horse processes that I use (in no particular order): prep checks, 2 way comm, incident running, and the power processes.


Anybody can say the words. One gets better results from being non judgmental, wanting the other person to really win, etc. Those who get better results with the same tools have something special. It can be taught (not necessarily in Scientology), but for some of us, it comes naturally.

I could take music lessons from now until Hell freezes Over, and I wouldn't be even a tenth of a percent as good as Paul McCartney is now. He is natively focused on music.

You are natively focused on people. This was true a million years ago. it will be true a thousand years from now.

Thank you CO. What you are saying seems to be what I am now beginning to discover about myself. I think if I had experienced Scientology as you did and been brave enough to abandon the church and continue to explore my story would be quite different.

Because I tried to fit into the church's design of what I needed to be and because I was "playing the game" for all it was worth and giving it everything I've got for way too long, I got some screwy ideas stuck to myself. I'm talkin mostly about ideas about who and what I am as myself and without the church or any processes or formulas or rituals. I really had negated myself as I empowered LRH.

I've always been the girl who "get's it". I understand people. Not according to any science or art or religion, just person to person. Sometimes I think it's a kind of unimportant talent or skill, but I'm learning otherwise. I'm learning that it's almost impossible to be happy while you are pretending to be happy. I just sometimes have a hard time separating my real self from my pretend self. I suppose that's not uncommon.

Thanks again for your comments and analysis. It really helps to hear from someone who's kind of from the same planet.
:smoochy:

FoTi
19th November 2010, 01:47 AM
Without taking even an iota away from your certainty of self, but giving you an additional look from a picture that I think is larger and including you, I think there is a trifle bigger picture.

Bear with me, I'm fumbling for words and order of ideas to be written.

I don't think auditing is anything new under than the sun. My girlfriend in the 1970s was an archaeologist. She said that there were groups doing auditing / processing in Attic Greece.

I've audited my share of people pre physical universe and auditing was a job before the physical universe.

My youngest daughter, when she was just a kid actor under 12, was often the person of choice for make up, stylists, cameramen, and some execs to tell their stories, woes, and share with on a set filled with fifty other adults. She's 31 now. She networks with ease on airplanes and in any other setting.

When I was 17,a senior in high school, my girl friend was a student teacher at my high school. She had been my friend before she came to teach at the school. Things just developed by seeing her every day. She's my friend forty years later. One day while driving she said something to the effect that I was always loving. She was talking about who I am, whether I'm being a farm boy or hippie or a high school kid. It's my nature.

Some people are good at interacting with others and bringing on positive change.

When I just had an HSDC cert, I took a lady with systemic arthritis, who literally could not get out of bed to go to the bathroom, and in 18 months was jogging / walking par courses. There is more to auditing than the processes. Phil Spickler, an old dianeticist and scientologist from early 1950s, at the time said that those kind of results are more a sign of the auditor than the processes.

I don't usually try to brag. it doesn't feel right for me.

Good Twin,

Look at what you accomplish on this broad forum called ESMB, you bring people out. VD was your product most recently.

Call it anything, but you bring out good change. that is you.

I do that. My wife also. My daughter has always been doing that. Processes sometimes add to our ability to help somebody. There are just a few work horse processes that I use (in no particular order): prep checks, 2 way comm, incident running, and the power processes.


Anybody can say the words. One gets better results from being non judgmental, wanting the other person to really win, etc. Those who get better results with the same tools have something special. It can be taught (not necessarily in Scientology), but for some of us, it comes naturally.

I could take music lessons from now until Hell freezes Over, and I wouldn't be even a tenth of a percent as good as Paul McCartney is now. He is natively focused on music.

You are natively focused on people. This was true a million years ago. it will be true a thousand years from now.

Good post. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

FoTi
19th November 2010, 01:57 AM
Because I tried to fit into the church's design of what I needed to be and because I was "playing the game" for all it was worth and giving it everything I've got for way too long, I got some screwy ideas stuck to myself. I'm talkin mostly about ideas about who and what I am as myself and without the church or any processes or formulas or rituals. I really had negated myself as I empowered LRH.

:

I think this is what happened to most of us. LRH knew how to do this to people without them knowing it was being done to them. This is how he gained his power over others and accumulated his wealth. This was his intention in his affirmations, prior to Scientology, which then eventually became a reality for himself and others.

Thanks for putting this into words, GT. It helped me to read what you wrote here.

Good twin
19th November 2010, 02:59 AM
I think this is what happened to most of us. LRH knew how to do this to people without them knowing it was being done to them. This is how he gained his power over others and accumulated his wealth. This was his intention in his affirmations, prior to Scientology, which then eventually became a reality for himself and others.

Thanks for putting this into words, GT. It helped me to read what you wrote here.

No problem, Sis. I really think our stories are all part of the whole story. Until I read YOUR story and the stories of others I couldn't even begin to look at what happened to me. For better or for worse, I really believe we are in this together and need each other to get to the other side. :coolwink:

SchwimmelPuckel
19th November 2010, 10:12 AM
<snip> I've audited my share of people pre physical universe and auditing was a job before the physical universe. <snip>Whole track psych?

'Auditing', or calling it that, was 'invented' in 1950 by L.Rum Hubturd.. That's later than pre physical universe by a stretch. Moreover Hubbard denounced ANY other mental tech as wrong/supressive/abberated. That's including religions, which doctors and wise men

The only exeption I can think of was Buddhism. But even that was conceptually included in his wide sweeping generalies.

:unsure:

freet43
20th November 2010, 06:05 AM
Also, people IN the Co$, especially SO or staff at many places, lose sight that Scn tech is to help one live a better, happier , more successful life - instead many stop having a life and Scn becomes their life!

In fact, life for so many staff means denying ALL dynamics, except the Scn group. what kind of life is that?

Marina


No. I don't regret my experience, but I have moved on. If I hadn't left the Scientology matrix I would still believe that Scientology is what is right about me. Only by leaving was I able to find out that I was what was right about Scientology.

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by freet43

Also, people IN the Co$, especially SO or staff at many places, lose sight that Scn tech is to help one live a better, happier , more successful life - instead many stop having a life and Scn becomes their life!

I don't think it is meant to do that ... I believe it is just a business and meant to earn money ... for the cofs.


In fact, life for so many staff means denying ALL dynamics, except the Scn group. what kind of life is that?

Marina


Well, it IS scientology 'tek' that they are using while having and tolerating their crap lives (admin tek mainly) ... and the life they are having is exactly the life they are meant to have, as per hubbard (it is his tek ... isn't it)?

SO and cofs staff don't get to pick the bits they like.

:no:

freet43
20th November 2010, 06:26 AM
I'm glad to hear your story - I thought after I posted what I did, that some would think this was hardly a topic for a public list LOL

Sorry your experience wasn't as easy as mine... I do wonder though, if with your first child that it could have been quicker without the drug...sorry I don't know much about it, that is not one I've heard of here....epidurals are the standard where I live.

And, the contractions are worse than pushing. One really stops feeling anything in the area while pushing. After my first child, I did a lot f research on the subject and there is much data on that - so why the epidurals are pushed on women, I don't know.

Squatting is the natural way position to be in - of course that's not such an easy position for the doc or mid-wife to deal with...

Marina




freet 43 wrote:


Marina,

I agree with you, however here in western society there are many different factors that add up to a painful birth. Everyone is different.

With my first child I was relatively young and having no one really to discuss childbirth with just went a long with what the medical proffession told me. I was in labour 13 hours, it was painful and I was left in a room on my own for much of it. The midwife a matronly woman in her 60s had never had any children and she knew best. When I was found crawling around on my hands and knees which was less painful, I was promptly put back on my back in bed by two women who knew better. I was also on a drug called pethadine which kept knocking me out.

Funny thing about pethadine, instead of knocking you out when you have the contractions, which were painful, it knocks you out between them. When the contractions start, you wake up and it hurt, a lot.

Years later when I had my second child, I knew a lot more. I was determined to have a completely natural birth. I was doing it my way. I wanted a home birth, but due to having had ME(myalgic encephamylitus) prior to being pregnant and living in a rural area was told I could not. Not to be out done, I insisted I was having no drugs, I wanted a birthing stool as I intended to give birth as naturally as possible. I was told I couldn't just squat which is what I wanted to do.

When the time came my baby being almost three weeks late, I went for a check up because they said they needed to induce me. At the check up, I was told I was in labour. I did not know this. There were no contractions. They insisted they had to keep me in there and then, I told them NO, I had to go home and milk my goats.This got a few funny looks. As it happened after the Doctor requested a bed and was told there weren't any, reluctantly they let me go home.

It was another eight hours before I went into labour. The labour lasted a damned long time, I didn't actually give birth til the following evening. I walked and walked and walked round that hospital. The most unnatural place to have a baby. I refused all medication. I was in agony and exhausted and finally agreed after much persuasion to have the pethadine, as I was told I would be too exhausted to push if I kept this up.I had the pethadine about three hours before I gave birth.The birthing stool never materialised.I was on my back again.

Under the influence of pethadine, I ripped the fluids that were been given me and attached to my hand on a couple of occasions off. I had my husband there for the birth and it wasn't until I had had the baby and finally was myself again I noticed his neck was really red and scratched. I had done that whilst having contractions.

Having said all that, I was elated, up on cloud 9 after giving birth to both of my children.

CarmeloOrchards
20th November 2010, 06:38 AM
I don't think it is meant to do that ... I believe it is just a business and meant to earn money ... for the cofs.




Well, it IS scientology 'tek' that they are using while having and tolerating their crap lives (admin tek mainly) ... and the life they are having is exactly the life they are meant to have, as per hubbard (it is his tek ... isn't it)?

SO and cofs staff don't get to pick the bits they like.

:no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sGzYM0LRHwY

freet43
20th November 2010, 06:49 AM
I don't take aspirin because I don't need to take aspirin, not because I'm following Hubbard's writings.

My parents were not Scn, but we had no drugs in the house, because none of us were ever sick. My mother never had headaches, like lots of women do.... I didn't miss a day of school ever - never sick or hurt...

My brother, on the other hand, was always having scrapes. But, rarely ever a cold or flu.

At my age (I'll be 60 in less than 2 years) I have no health conditions and have never needed to be on any kind of meds. I'm the only one I know (other than some other clears or OTs) that does not need glasses )

Many years go by without any cold symptoms or anything of that nature.

I have worked for the same company since 1979 and have never missed a day of work due to illness. Not even when I was pregnant with my first child - I worked a normal fulltime schedule up til the day he was born - he arrived on his due date.

The only time that I had the flu in this-lifetime memory was in 1999, when I stupidly bought the hype about needing to get a flu shot. During the annual health and wellness fair where I work, 2 colleagues and I went for our flu shots. We were the only ones in our 200+ person department that got the flu shots, and we were the only ones that came down with a nasty flu during the christmas holidays... (I still didn't miss a day of work, because we were closed for the holidays!)

I could go on and on - but suffice it to say, I have no aspirin in the house - nor tylenol - nor etc.... not because Hubbard said anything - but because I don't need that stuff.

Marina


The quiet birth thing, the no taking aspirin thing, and so many other things in Scientology that interrupt what is normally done by regular people, seem to me to be Hubbard's way of inserting control into a person's psyche which tells them "You are a Scientologist."

If you can get someone to follow rules, or to be bound by a moral code or code of behavior, you can continually remind them who they are. And soon they will tell themselves to be who you want them to be.

I can't tell you what a relief it was to finally take aspirin again.

Jesus Christ I suffered so needlessly because I was a Scientologist. But it was what made me a Scientologist in a very real way. It was a distinction of myself to others.

freet43
20th November 2010, 06:52 AM
and you might change your tune

Marina


Staying silent is completely without merit and has not been proven to prevent 'engrams' or whatever the hell you call them. You just swallowed LRH's bulls**t hook, line and sinker. He fabricated this crap out of thin air with no testing whatsoever. And I think its cruel to make the mother shut up and take the pain without being able to say a word.

To those women who posted that their birthing experiences were pain-free or low pain, that's wonderful. Consider yourself lucky because the vast majority of women experience pain and a lot of it. And 'walking around' or standing or squating while giving birth does not prevent pain for everyone.

freet43
20th November 2010, 06:54 AM
when I was having kids and seems to have some merit.

The women is in squatting position - much better than a bed


What do you guys know about giving birth in the water?
I've heard about it but don't know anybody who have done it

CarmeloOrchards
20th November 2010, 06:57 AM
I don't take aspirin because I don't need to take aspirin, not because I'm following Hubbard's writings.

My parents were not Scn, but we had no drugs in the house, because none of us were ever sick. My mother never had headaches, like lots of women do.... I didn't miss a day of school ever - never sick or hurt...

My brother, on the other hand, was always having scrapes. But, rarely ever a cold or flu.

At my age (I'll be 60 in less than 2 years) I have no health conditions and have never needed to be on any kind of meds. I'm the only one I know (other than some other clears or OTs) that does not need glasses )

Many years go by without any cold symptoms or anything of that nature.

I have worked for the same company since 1979 and have never missed a day of work due to illness. Not even when I was pregnant with my first child - I worked a normal fulltime schedule up til the day he was born - he arrived on his due date.

The only time that I had the flu in this-lifetime memory was in 1999, when I stupidly bought the hype about needing to get a flu shot. During the annual health and wellness fair where I work, 2 colleagues and I went for our flu shots. We were the only ones in our 200+ person department that got the flu shots, and we were the only ones that came down with a nasty flu during the christmas holidays... (I still didn't miss a day of work, because we were closed for the holidays!)

I could go on and on - but suffice it to say, I have no aspirin in the house - nor tylenol - nor etc.... not because Hubbard said anything - but because I don't need that stuff.

Marina

The only aspirin I've ever taken had LSD on it sold by a guy named Owsley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmukyU9zTiY

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:00 AM
Not that I am condoning the atrocities in these cases, but where are all your pics of the hundreds of thousands maimed and killed by prescription drugs annually?

Marina


Here's some more people Scientology has helped . . .

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4826263838_165143f77d.jpg

dexter gelfand
20th November 2010, 07:01 AM
The only aspirin I've ever taken had LSD on it sold by a guy named Owsley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmukyU9zTiY

That explains a lot, Carmello! :D

Love, Dex

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 07:02 AM
Posted by Freet43

Snipped

I could go on and on - but suffice it to say, I have no aspirin in the house - nor tylenol - nor etc.... not because Hubbard said anything - but because I don't need that stuff.


I would have said that too when I was a scientologist.

I am very similar (healthwise) to you though, but if I feel the rare need to take something I would (and do) nowadays.

My babies were born drug and noise free.


CarmeloOrchards ... that is an amazing video Carmelo, thanks for posting it.

:yes:

CarmeloOrchards
20th November 2010, 07:06 AM
That explains a lot, Carmello! :D

Love, Dex

gotta watch that vitamin C :-)

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:08 AM
You are correct - it is not the same for everyone.

And, I don't expect that it will be the same.

However, I do know many women that gave birth naturally and it was a joyful event.

I think it does a great disservice to women to only talk of the horror stories, the long labors etc.

I am a firm believer in one's ability to make things happen how one wishes them to be.

If all women hear are horror stories, they will be set to think their experience must be horrible also.

At least, one can give them hope that perhaps they will have an easy time also. That frame of mind can have a positive effect.

Marina




Wow, I gotta disagree BIG TIME! I am willing to believe that YOU may have had an easy time of it, and therefore, I revise my belief to: it's different for each person. Not a good idea to decide that your own experience has to be true for everyone.

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:11 AM
Actually, Jett, despite his physical disabilities, in many ways lived a wonderful life with parents that loved him and doted on him.

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

I wish them all the best.

Marina


Think again. By reminding people that, despite Scientology, Jett was autistic and, because of Scientology, died far too young, I am sending a warning to others who would follow this necromancy. My comment may appear to be cruel and heartless (what a banky response) to the adherents who would gloss over these facts and still seek to promote it, but to lurkers and the awakened it could well appear salient.

Multiple viewpoints and all that . . .

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 07:13 AM
Actually, Jett, despite his physical disabilities, in many ways lived a wonderful life with parents that loved him and doted on him.

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

I wish them all the best.

Marina


Snap out of it.

That is ridiculous.

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:21 AM
sorry that is not real to you, but that doesn't change it.

It is common knowledge, in those religions that observe that beings come back, and I'm not talking about Scn here, that the beings come back to their own families.

That's happened in my own family.

Marina



Snap out of it.

That is ridiculous.

Auditor's Toad
20th November 2010, 07:29 AM
"Actually, Jett, despite his physical disabilities, in many ways lived a wonderful life with parents that loved him and doted on him.

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

I wish them all the best."

Well, gee.

So how is old Ron doing?
Mary Sue?
Quentin?
Nibs?
Lisa?

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 07:31 AM
sorry that is not real to you, but that doesn't change it.

It is common knowledge, in those religions that observe that beings come back, and I'm not talking about Scn here, that the beings come back to their own families.

That's happened in my own family.

Marina


No need to be sorry, what IS common knowledge is that scientologists tend to speak with 'authority' and actually believe that they are automatically correct (and that everyone else should accept that too!) ... those days are well and truly over Marina and especially at ESMB.

:eyeroll:

It has nothing to do with "what is real to me" ... that is just another hubbard put down.

For the record I do believe in reincarnation.

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:31 AM
anyone else know?

Marina


"Actually, Jett, despite his physical disabilities, in many ways lived a wonderful life with parents that loved him and doted on him.

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

I wish them all the best."

Well, gee.

So how is old Ron doing?
Mary Sue?
Quentin?
Nibs?
Lisa?

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:35 AM
why do you think my statement about Jett was ridiculous? especially since you believe in reincarnation?

Marina




No need to be sorry, what IS common knowledge is that scientologists tend to speak with 'authority' and actually believe that they are automatically correct (and that everyone else should accept that too!) ... those days are well and truly over Marina and especially at ESMB.

:eyeroll:

It has nothing to do with "what is real to me" ... that is just another hubbard put down.

For the record I do believe in reincarnation.

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 07:43 AM
why do you think my statement about Jett was ridiculous? especially since you believe in reincarnation?

Marina

For all I know it could be correct ... I sincerely hope that it is, what makes me sick is the arrogant authoritative certainty ... but that is the hallmark of a scientologist.

You do not know anything about the Travolta's child (other than in your own world) and neither do I and I am not going to sit here and let you turn ESMB into a Freezone wankfest.



Posted by Freet43

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

supafreak
20th November 2010, 07:52 AM
Snap out of it.

That is ridiculous.

What she said. Inb4 woo-woo relativist justification.

freet43
20th November 2010, 07:54 AM
what I've been sensing since we've been chatting about the Travoltas over these last couple of days, and only brought it up because of Blip's inappropriate comment

yes, I do have certainty on this point

PS what's a wankfest?

Marina


For all I know it could be correct ... I sincerely hope that it is, what makes me sick is the arrogant authoritative certainty ... but that is the hallmark of a scientologist.

You do not know anything about the Travolta's child (other than in your own world) and neither do I and I am not going to sit here and let you turn ESMB into a Freezone wankfest.

CarmeloOrchards
20th November 2010, 07:55 AM
what's a wankfest?

the FCDC thread


Wanker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with Wanka (disambiguation).
This article is about the pejorative. For other uses, see Wanker (disambiguation).
Look up wanker in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Wanker is a pejorative term of English origin, common in Commonwealth and ex-Commonwealth countries, including Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. It initially referred to an onanist but has since become a general insult. It is synonymous with tosser.

The term wanker originated from British slang in the 1940s.[1] Wanker literally means "one who wanks (masturbates)". In modern usage it is usually a general insult. It conveys contempt, not commentary on sexual habits. Wanker has similar meanings and overtones to American pejoratives like jerk(-off).[2] One connotation, implying egotistical and self-indulgent behaviour (and more analogous to American douche(bag)[3]), is the dominant meaning in Australia and New Zealand.[4]


"Wanker" hand gesture
Wanker may be indicated by a one-handed gesture,[5] usually to an audience out of hearing range.[2] It is shown by curling the fingers of the hand into a loose fist and moving the hand back and forth to mime male masturbation, which is equivalent to saying, "[you are a] wanker".
Wanker is the centre of a popular story regarding the British television quiz show Countdown in which contestants have to form the longest word possible from nine randomly selected letters. On one occasion the letters permitted the spelling of 'wanker' (or 'wankers') and both contestants replied with the word, leading one to quip "we've got a pair of wankers". The sequence was edited out of the show (as is common with risqué words), but has been shown as an outtake on other shows.[6] However, on a later occasion, 'wanker' was offered, and this instance was left in and broadcast unedited.
"The Winker's Song (Misprint)" by Ivor Biggun is one of many songs about masturbation. It describes the singer: "I'm a wanker, I'm a wanker. And it does me good like it bloody well should", and it reached number 22 in the 1978 UK charts. It was banned by BBC Radio 1.[7][dead link]
In the United States, the term is understood, but seldom used, and then more in a way suggesting the target is an idiot or moron.

I told you I was trouble
20th November 2010, 07:59 AM
what I've been sensing since we've been chatting about the Travoltas over these last couple of days, and only brought it up because of Blip's inappropriate comment

yes, I do have certainty on this point

PS what's a wankfest?

Marina




Urban Dictionary: wankfest

A Festival of Wank. A Proliferation of toss. An excess of jizz. A massive accumulation of useless remnants resulting from a bunch of wankers ...

Blip's comment was not as 'inappropriate' as yours IMNSHO.



:eyeroll:

freet43
20th November 2010, 08:50 AM
to your opinion, as I am to mine

Marina


Blip's comment was not as 'inappropriate' as yours IMNSHO.



:eyeroll:

Sir Facer
20th November 2010, 10:16 AM
Not that I am condoning the atrocities in these cases, but where are all your pics of the hundreds of thousands maimed and killed by prescription drugs annually?

Marina

Good point! Blip is a sensationalist with a very low I.Q. thats why he can only point out the obvious we allready know, now lets see if he can produce some real new news.....but dont hold your breath folks........

PS:BOOM :omg:

Infinite
20th November 2010, 10:18 AM
Not that I am condoning the atrocities in these cases, but where are all your pics of the hundreds of thousands maimed and killed by prescription drugs annually?

The same place I keep the pics of the millions and millions of people who are helped to live a better life thanks to prescription drugs.

supafreak
20th November 2010, 11:39 AM
The same place I keep the pics of the millions and millions of people who are helped to live a better life thanks to prescription drugs.

*raises hand* I fucking love [prescription] drugs!

uniquemand
20th November 2010, 01:07 PM
I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

There is absolutely no doubt that your desire to help and your willingness to listen go the distance in my mind. The "tech" gives you confidence to look, listen, and help, and it gives the person you're working with confidence that you can help, and that they can get through something. I do think that there are some things of good value in the "tech", in terms of repetition of the incidents, or looking at things from as many different angles as possible.

The level of formalities involved, in my opinion, are unnecessary, except where rapport between the people is not naturally present, and the devices and formalities of the "tech" create that confidence. This, of course, is also where the danger lies. The reliance on the "tech" can become a substitution for your own natural confidence. Additionally, it sets up the conditions where rote process gets in the way of effective listening. Worse, it sets up conditions where the "tech" is seen as magical, when it was actually honest and thorough looking and communication that was magical. The person delivering the "auditing" becomes bound by its strictures, and can become willing to do things that their natural intuition would oppose (sec checking in the interrogator "valence"), because of their confidence in Ron and his Magic "Tech". The "preclear" can become willing to expose themself to something they are not really ready for, with someone they don't really know or trust, because of their confidence in the organization and in Ron's Magic "Tech".

Both are dangerous. This sets up the conditions where auditors are automatons and their subjects are compromised and psychically raped for profit. I'm not saying that an auditor cannot do good things for people, but the danger is there that they become a cog in a machine dedicated to extracting wealth from people.

That being said, I disagree that silent births are some sort of mysogynistic torture, oddly occult, or any such nonsense. The calm, serene environment created can be very soothing to both mother and child. I know, because I have been present for one. Now, if the mother is compromised by any sort of problem that requires a doctor's attention, then she should have it. If she wants a pain reliever, then she should have it. If she wants to babble her head off, or scream, then by God, she should. However, an attempt at a silent birth is not a horrorshow.

Similarly, I think that being silent around someone who has been injured is a good idea. I don't believe that everything said during such an incident will act as a posthypnotic suggestion, and I've had plenty of hours "in the chair". I do think that decisions the person makes in such circumstances "stick" with them more, and that they can suffer post traumatic stress disorder from such incidents, and that cues in those incidents can trigger stress reactions (anxiety, depression, anger, delusions, flashbacks, etc.), so why add a lot of noise and gabbling to an already difficult situation: why add yourself as a trigger? That being said, I think letting the person know that you are there, providing support, answering when talked to, that sort of thing, are perfectly normal and if they add triggers, well, that's better than the person feeling they are alone and isolated during an already traumatic situation. Use judgment, in other words.

SchwimmelPuckel
20th November 2010, 02:27 PM
Actually, Jett, despite his physical disabilities, in many ways lived a wonderful life with parents that loved him and doted on him.

He's been doing very well since he left the confines of that body, and hopefully will be able to rejoin his family very soon.

I wish them all the best.

MarinaUh oh! - Are you insinuating that JT and KP are less than proper fireeating and unreasonable scientologists? - That they 'assigned' Jett a wrong 'ethics condition' above that which he was in? - That they were REASONABLE with him, just because he was their child?

Really.. I've seen scientologists turning their back on sick people far too much. Something as mundane as a bloody cold.. And they guy didn't pay up and had it 'handled' in session. (Maybe he couldn't afford it?) - Earned him a 'Treason Condition' and hate glares from all around.

I've heard enough of scientologist's callous opinions about people with disabilities.. How they 'pulled it in' and that the real reason for their disability was 'overts'..

Well, I don't know JT and KP.. But, for Jett's sake, I sure hope they aren't/weren't that 'dedicated'. - I have no doubt that 'terminals' in the cult would have attempted to persuade them to the proper scientological attitude.

Arrgh! - I 'sense' that Jett is rather offended by all that scientology shit, and that he looks for a family that will keep him the hell away from it!

:yes:

freet43
21st November 2010, 06:05 PM
and I don't mean that in a bad way - your posts are written very well and I find them humorous....regardless of whether or not I agree with the message.

Although I do tend to agree with how one can pull things in - or one can get what one wants, I don't think it is all so black and white.

Things can happen where one gets a body that has issues - I don't necessarily think that is the being's "fault" or the families fault or whatever.

Nor do I think that those with disabilities should be discarded - there are many examples, including people I've known personally, not just famous people such as Helen Keller or Steven Hawking - of beings that have enjoyed a good life and accomplished a lot, despite disabilities.

In the disabled that are successful, one sees a very strong will to live and succeed despite all odds.

I think that not all beings are willing to persevere in those kind of situations and may rather leave the body and hope for better luck next time.

Marina


Uh oh! - Are you insinuating that JT and KP are less than proper fireeating and unreasonable scientologists? - That they 'assigned' Jett a wrong 'ethics condition' above that which he was in? - That they were REASONABLE with him, just because he was their child?

Really.. I've seen scientologists turning their back on sick people far too much. Something as mundane as a bloody cold.. And they guy didn't pay up and had it 'handled' in session. (Maybe he couldn't afford it?) - Earned him a 'Treason Condition' and hate glares from all around.

I've heard enough of scientologist's callous opinions about people with disabilities.. How they 'pulled it in' and that the real reason for their disability was 'overts'..

Well, I don't know JT and KP.. But, for Jett's sake, I sure hope they aren't/weren't that 'dedicated'. - I have no doubt that 'terminals' in the cult would have attempted to persuade them to the proper scientological attitude.

Arrgh! - I 'sense' that Jett is rather offended by all that scientology shit, and that he looks for a family that will keep him the hell away from it!

:yes:

Friend
24th November 2010, 05:58 PM
Can't you read for 12 1/2 hours and and realize something about yourself that can be a change for life?
I have worked on my mental image pictures and I have got memories back from my past that was lost! I have from both exes and regular friends commenting on my good memories from shared areas of life. I didn't need auditing to get that. Where do you draw the line for auditing to work only in session (impossible to do it yourself) and where do you draw the line that you can do it yourself (possible to do it yourself); where do you draw the line for not doing it yourself, and where do you draw the line for doing it yourself?
Everybody are unique beings and we are different in thinking too.
Nothing has borders between and nothing is constant in the spiritual enhancing thinking. If you want to put frames in your thinking, it's up to you. I choose not. If you are stuck you can create an unnecessary border to feel safe. I used to do that in my past. I used to have nice perimeters.
I have also met strangers in a coffee shop and ohter places and in 15 minutes I know all about their life. I do keep the content for myself and life goes on.
I have had stangers coming up to me saying "You made my day!".



I was an auditor. I saw people have amazing gains. I thought the technology helped people feel better about themselves and understand themselves better. It seemed obvious to me that the technology was amazing.

I was wrong. The technology is all smoke and mirrors. I am amazing. It was me being really interested in my PCs and really caring and allowing them to investigate and evaluate for themselves that produced the fantastic gains.

I can have a fifteen minute conversation with anybody that will make that person feel better. In less than twelve and a half hours I can help a person realize something about themself that will change their life.

I'm amazing! In my opinion you are amazing too FireDragon. Hubturd tech sells you short.

Dulloldfart
24th November 2010, 06:20 PM
Excerpted from http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40350833/ns/today-entertainment/:


Preston on Tuesday announced the birth of their third child, a baby boy born nearly two years after the death of their 16-year-old son Jett.

The baby, named Benjamin, was born at a hospital in Florida on Tuesday evening weighing more than 8 pounds, according to a statement from Travolta's publicist.

"John, Kelly and their daughter Ella Bleu are ecstatic and very happy about the newest member of the family. Both mother and baby are healthy and doing beautifully," the statement said.
Paul

Alanzo
24th November 2010, 06:22 PM
Excerpted from http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40350833/ns/today-entertainment/:


Preston on Tuesday announced the birth of their third child, a baby boy born nearly two years after the death of their 16-year-old son Jett.

The baby, named Benjamin, was born at a hospital in Florida on Tuesday evening weighing more than 8 pounds, according to a statement from Travolta's publicist.

"John, Kelly and their daughter Ella Bleu are ecstatic and very happy about the newest member of the family. Both mother and baby are healthy and doing beautifully," the statement said.
Paul
Congratulations to the Travoltas!

May they all be very happy together and Ella Bleu have a long, happy and meaningful life!

I told you I was trouble
25th November 2010, 04:52 AM
That is lovely news.

I wish them all good things.

:yes:

Wisened One
25th November 2010, 05:21 AM
:congratulations: to the Travoltas! :happydance:: :flowers:

Sharone Stainforth
29th November 2010, 11:10 PM
I do so love to read what real scientologists think about, silent or should I say 'quiet' births are just one of the many wonderful things that L. Ron Hubbard discovered.

Ah, but are you your body?



DO SCIENTOLOGISTS CONSIDER CHILDREN ADULTS IN A SMALL BODY?

No. Scientologists consider children to be spiritual beings, like all people are but they need to be taken care of as children. L. Ron Hubbard has written quite a lot on the subject, including that "a child needs all of the love and affection it can possibly get" and that "a good stable adult with love and tolerance in his heart is about the best therapy a child can have."

Children need respect, love, help, and education. They want to help others from a very early age and it is important that adults allow them to do so, within the realms of safety. A child has to know they have a place in life, that they are important and that their contributions are meaningful in a real way.

Education is an important part of this, as a child needs understanding of the workings of his family and society to be able to contribute to them in meaningful ways and in this he can be greatly assisted by his parents and other family members.

Quiet Birth


With Kelly Preston's new arrival due any time, my fellow blogger Tad has created the ultimate answer to any question you may have about "silent birth".

(By-the-way, it's actually called "quiet birth" but that sounds less controvertial than "silent birth" so the media likes to mis-name it.)

http://myscientology.blogspot.com/

Quote:


." Personally, I think that was the main motivation for L. Ron Hubbard, to bring a greater freedom to each individual member of mankind.

and

Quote:


LRH said, "I will not admit that there is a naturally bad, evil man on Earth," and you can see from what he did to help mankind that he truly believed it.

This really is a fascinating look into what a scientologist really believes.