What is FZ auditing going for?

[Disinfected]

So let's say that I wanted to get some auditing in the FZ. What would I expect to pay? I was quoted $150/hr by someone for some help handling something and I was like "WTF" (in my mind). $150/hr for someone delivering a product out of their home with zero overhead? I was thinking about 1/2 that at the most.

Am I way off on that?

[Captain Koolaid]

Allegedly you get the entire bridge in the Freezone without any pressure and for 1/10th of the cost. 150$/h sounds steep, especially for something that has never been validated. If you have issues that bug you, I would rather see a therapist with a real diploma, who uses talk therapy instead of fobbing you off with a recipe for Xanax or something similar. A good friend you can trust will do it for free - unless it's something that requires professional help.

[Dulloldfart]

So let's say that I wanted to get some auditing in the FZ. What would I expect to pay? I was quoted $150/hr by someone for some help handling something and I was like "WTF" (in my mind). $150/hr for someone delivering a product out of their home with zero overhead? I was thinking about 1/2 that at the most.

Am I way off on that?

Ask around. Someone else may charge you $20 an hour or trade you for painting their garage. Rates vary, there's no fixed price.

Paul

[Ted]

Ask around. Someone else may charge you $20 an hour or trade you for painting their garage. Rates vary, there's no fixed price.

Paul


Ranges from $0 to $200+ are typical. My guess, $75 to $100 on average.

If your case makes you a walking talking comedy act you might find an auditor who would process you for nothing. Some pc's are more fun to audit than others.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::hysterical::hysterical ::hysterical:

[Freeminds]

If you have issues that bug you, I would rather see a therapist with a real diploma, who uses talk therapy instead of fobbing you off with a recipe for Xanax or something similar. A good friend you can trust will do it for free - unless it's something that requires professional help.

Agreed. The non-sinister parts of auditing are virtually interchangeable with a talking therapy. Counseling is not "Evil Psych!!!" territory, even if you believe LRH's Evil Psych conspiracy theory. Talking to a trained professional who won't do anything weird with the contents of your case/PC folder can only be better.

You may be able to get some help of this kind for free through your doctor, your employer or your medical insurance.

NZ$150/hr is a bit too close to CofS shenanigans, IMHO.

[Dulloldfart]

You might want to Google counseling rates and see what the rates charged for non-Scn sessions by trained professionals in those fields are. I am making no comment about a comparison between the skill and training and qualifications and oversight involved, merely the prices.

Paul

[Disinfected]

Well, I am certainly not going to get into a comparative discussion of Scientology vs. other therapies in this thread. Talk about a thread derail :omg:

I am in the US and can travel anywhere in the US and am interested in specifics of what others have paid or have charged. PM me if you want to communicate privately.

Thanks!

[Mystic]

Interesting that some folks will pay money to have blackarts rituals performed on them.

[Disinfected]

Interesting that some folks will pay money to have blackarts rituals performed on them.

Why, do you know where I can get that for free?

[Voltaire's Child]

Depends on the auditor. I've seen it go for less than a hundred an hour. I've seen it go for more than that. I've also seen them waive fees all together. So I wouldn't be too quick to generalize...

[Disinfected]

NZ$150/hr is a bit too close to CofS shenanigans, IMHO.

USD150 but I agree. Too much like CofS fees. And at least an org can claim to have a large support staff and building costs behind that auditor. And if they actually paid the auditor and those staff a living wage out of the hourly rate, instead of succumbing to every scheme to skim it off and send it uplines, then the church rate might even make sense.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes, I can see where there'd be a confusion between $150.00 an hour and three times that much. :eyeroll:

[AnonKat]

Ask around. Someone else may charge you $20 an hour or trade you for painting their garage. Rates vary, there's no fixed price.

Paul

Do you audit Paul ?

[Disinfected]

Yes, I can see where there'd be a confusion between $150.00 an hour and three times that much. :eyeroll:

At the Class V level, more like 2x. My point being that I do not see much qualitative difference in discussing whether something is overpriced between a person charging $150/hr out of their living room with zero overhead vs. a full org with support and building charging $300/hr. And actually, as I mention, if the staff were actually paid out of that $300, I see the latter as the more appropriate pricing of the two choices. I consider both overpriced by a factor of about two.

[Terril park]

So let's say that I wanted to get some auditing in the FZ. What would I expect to pay? I was quoted $150/hr by someone for some help handling something and I was like "WTF" (in my mind). $150/hr for someone delivering a product out of their home with zero overhead? I was thinking about 1/2 that at the most.

Am I way off on that?

Rates can go between $50- $200. Those charging the higher prices usually have decades of experience or deliver special subjects such as L's.

If you mail me I can hopefully connect you with someone local.

basic2basic@yahoo.com

[AnonKat]

Rates can go between $50- $200. Those charging the higher prices usually have decades of experience or deliver special subjects such as L's.

If you mail me I can hopefully connect you with someone local.

basic2basic@yahoo.com

It sounds like a "buyers" market, If one is not happy with the service provided one can turn to another provider.

Freedom of choiche

Must say It makes Terril a happy man and I like to see a friend happy.

[Veda]

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware...

Here's a fellow with a $150,000 who, apparently, has been told that he can buy and receive and become OT 15 (LRH's OT 9-15). From all available evidence these levels do not exist. Whether this person has made "advance payments" for these levels is not known.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=495031&postcount=20

If he ever wants any of his money back, for unused or undelivered services, he may be out of luck.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=497202&postcount=166

[Dulloldfart]

duplicate post (see below)

[Captain Koolaid]

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware...

Here's a fellow with a $150,000 who, apparently, has been told that he can buy and receive and become OT 15 (LRH's OT 9-15). From all available evidence these levels do not exist. Whether this person has made "advance payments" for these levels is not known.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=495031&postcount=20

If he ever wants any of his money back, for unused or undelivered services, he may be out of luck.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=497202&postcount=166

37 years 'clean' and he decides to blow a fortune on this crap? :duh:

His kids should have him committed.

[Dulloldfart]

Do you audit Paul ?

Almost all the auditing I do is vicariously, through PaulsRobot and the like. I don't tout for personal business, although I do for theirs.

Paul

[Mark A. Baker]

Ranges from $0 to $200+ are typical. My guess, $75 to $100 on average.

If your case makes you a walking talking comedy act you might find an auditor who would process you for nothing. Some pc's are more fun to audit than others.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::hysterical::hysterical ::hysterical:

What Ted states is representative. Higher rates tend to reflect more experienced auditors. Freezone auditors often "take the hit" for ancillary costs of C/Sing & FESing. The hour of auditing can often reflect more than just an hour of session time. They also frequently make arrangements for auditing on an "exchange" or no-cost basis depending on specifics & circumstances.


Mark A. Baker

[Ted]

What Ted states is representative. Higher rates tend to reflect more experienced auditors. Freezone auditors often "take the hit" for ancillary costs of C/Sing & FESing. The hour of auditing can often reflect more than just an hour of session time. They also frequently make arrangements for auditing on an "exchange" or no-cost basis depending on specifics & circumstances.


Mark A. Baker


True.

I have never charged for C/S time, FESing time, admin time, interview time, ethics actions, etc. The pc/client pays for an hour of auditing they get an hour of auditing.

Also, I do not abide by church rules concerning payment. Usually the pc/client arrives from out of town for a weekend of auditing. It gets delivered as promised. When the weekend is over I tally up the hours then the pc/client pays for exactly that. There is no money on account. There is no refund because if the auditing was unsatisfactory no payment is expected. In that case, we just part company. Never has happened though as I am selective with/about whom I choose to work.

:D

[Veda]

37 years 'clean' and he decides to blow a fortune on this crap? :duh:

His kids should have him committed.

I think the point is that he may be spending his life savings on LRH upper OT levels that do not exist. People who "want their LRH Bridge," in the year 2010, with so much information available about that "Bridge," and who believe they are "ensuring their eternities" by buying it, are not known for their capacity at critical thinking. And this person is not someone buying a specific or isolated service; he's buying his "entire Bridge" through "OT 15." (Or thinks he is.) That would indicate a gullible and suggestible person, and a person easily dominated and, if need be, intimidated, by a "big being" such as Pierre.

In any event, if the person is being swindled, there seems to be little or no concern in the FreeZone about it.

[CarmeloOrchards]

So let's say that I wanted to get some auditing in the FZ. What would I expect to pay? I was quoted $150/hr by someone for some help handling something and I was like "WTF" (in my mind). $150/hr for someone delivering a product out of their home with zero overhead? I was thinking about 1/2 that at the most.

Am I way off on that?

I don't know your age or your income.

Some background:

In 1968, when I was 17, I paid $25.00 an hour for auditing. I was also earning $25. an hour fixing farm and construction machinery. By 1970-71, I was paying $35. an hour for review auditing at the AO. My house in that time period cost $25,000.

The house I had in 1971 is now worth about $800,000. with very little upgrading. I sold it to friends, who still live there.

I do some pro bono auditing (free).

I do some exchanges (someone put on my roof, installed windows, etc) with no money changing hands.

I charge a minimum of $150 an hour.

As a general contractor I get around $100 an hour. In real estate I can make bupkis or thousands in an hour. It is the nature of sales.

If I fuck up a soldered water line, there may be a leak.

If I fuck up a PC, there is worse damage than any leak can cause. I don't fuck up. What is that worth to you?

I had a bad auditor in Dallas, once back in 1995, I lost half a million dollars in the next year before I figured out what was wrong. Auditing powerful core issues can be done poorly by the wrong person. If you want free auditing, find yourself a student. You may be happier with free.

I'm a decent auditor. If I didn't help you, I wouldn't charge you.

You sound as if you are shopping price. I wouldn't be interested in taking you on that basis. I want someone, who wants "me." As a contractor, I shy away from people wanting the cheapest price. I sell to those, whose ideas of quality and exchange resonate with mine.

[Infinite]

Tell the auditor you'll pay them when the proceeds of the increased "havingness" start rolling in.

[CarmeloOrchards]

Tell the auditor you'll pay them when the proceeds of the increased "havingness" start rolling in.

that is only appropriate if that is what they are looking for.

that is akin to spec housing. building something and hoping someone buys. there is nothing wrong with that.

some people want to be paid for their time, and are not interested in a windfall based on speculation or luck.

free market pricing lets people be creative in their dealings. capitalism rules, weaker providers have fewer quality customers. stronger providers name their terms. it all works out in the marketplace.

[Hatshepsut]

Almost all the auditing I do is vicariously, through PaulsRobot and the like. I don't tout for personal business, although I do for theirs.

Paul

I was messing with my PEAT dvd two days ago. (Zivorad Slavinski) I did the finger touch method just to try it out. It was very similiar to what I read in your GPM rub and yawn section. Very light.

I used to do Rising Scale Processing for free :D on myself when I started feeling morose. :wink2: Its similar...getting postulated conditions and then embracing its opposite condition alternately until the ridge disolves.

[Disinfected]

You sound as if you are shopping price. I wouldn't be interested in taking you on that basis.

Not really. And if you are someone that contracts work without a care for price or even knowing what might constitute a fair price then good for you. I guess. But somehow I think you don't.

[uniquemand]

The prices I've seen have ranged from free (turnabout) to 400 dollars an hour. Some people will charge by the session and leave the duration of the session out of it. Lots of different models. If I'm comfortable with someone auditing me (rare), I offer exchange instead of pay-models.

[Mystic]

Of course one can also finally discover there is life (and the energies thereof) and become a part of the free beings. Free, not as in beer, as in FREE.

[Infinite]

What are the Independents charging - you might get a better deal from them.

[Terril park]

If I fuck up a PC, there is worse damage than any leak can cause. I don't fuck up. What is that worth to you?



I know personally some brilliant experiences of friends where Ed was the
" review auditor" handling a difficult situation.

Ed has been auditing a very long time. I've never heard of anyone dissatisfied. And I may not know everything happening in the FZ but no one knows more than I.

In theory I only promote " Standard tech". Ed would include himself out of that category. So would most advocates of standard tech.

However from a class VIII tape:-

" Standard tech isn’t what I say it is. It’s what works. And what works has already been established. So it isn’t for me to say it’s different. And it isn’t for anybody else to say it’s different either, because we fought for it, and we won it the hard way. Now let’s consolidate it."

What Ed does works. :)

[Veda]

-snip-

However from a class VIII tape:-

" Standard tech isn’t what I say it is. It’s what works. And what works has already been established. So it isn’t for me to say it’s different. And it isn’t for anybody else to say it’s different either, because we fought for it, and we won it the hard way. Now let’s consolidate it."

-snip-



It's always remarkable to see this bit of Commodore Hubbard double-talk quoted by Scientology Zoners with a straight face.

:dance3:

[Terril park]

It's always remarkable to see this bit of Commodore Hubbard double-talk quoted by Scientology Zoners with a straight face.

:dance3:

Is it double talk?

Holy shit!!! We agree again!!

Yes.....no....maybe. :) [ Rebecca de Mornay in the Tom Cruise best movie
Risky Business] [ back on topic]

If something works it can't be refuted.

Hubbard had a wonderful goal of getting the man in the street to
provide a superior psychotherapy. With a well trained C/S. It sort of worked.
With experts, does work in my long experience and opinion.

This whole thing is in an area difficult to quantify.

Ed makes it work.

To sort of quote a review of the incredible string band, who I know
you love, very loosely I'm afraid :-

"So and so's melodic line had as much connection to the score as birds flying above. "

From a major UK newspaper.

[Veda]

Is it double talk?

Holy shit!!! We agree again!!

-snip-



We do not agree.

If it's double talk then don't post it. It's misleading.

Your view of Hubbard's "goal" is extremely naive.

But I guess being naive and being a Scientologist go together.

[Terril park]

We do not agree.

If it's double talk then don't post it. It's misleading.

Your view of Hubbard's "goal" is extremely naive.

But I guess being naive and being a Scientologist go together.

You silly thetan, or whatever you wish to classify yourself as.

What works works.

That Naive?

Put yourself on the naughty step. Emma should have created one.

[Infinite]

If something works it can't be refuted.

Thalidomide works as a sedative - can't refute that.

[Helena Handbasket]

Of course, prices vary. This is true even within a "network" of independents such as Ron's Orgs.

Some auditors charge a "sliding scale" --- no, I don't mean percent off for paying for X number of intensives in advance. They will reduce their rates if they believe you can't pay the full rate.

And an independent auditor does have overhead. At least one room set aside for auditing/training; sometimes a lot more than that. And an independent has to do all his/her own promotion, regging, treasury cycles, etc. This could easily be 2x the time spent "in the chair".

Not to mention the time and money investment in getting trained so he/she can deliver.

But of course, there's always co-auditing. That's always free.

Helena

[Voltaire's Child]

I also know of people who've had fees completely waived in the FZ.

[Auditor's Toad]

This thread was a fun read......and free.

Did anyone suggest just auditing solo?

The one could decide what to charge and have agreement.......right?

[degraded being]

I know personally some brilliant experiences of friends where Ed was the
" review auditor" handling a difficult situation.

Ed has been auditing a very long time. I've never heard of anyone dissatisfied. And I may not know everything happening in the FZ but no one knows more than I.

In theory I only promote " Standard tech". Ed would include himself out of that category. So would most advocates of standard tech.

However from a class VIII tape:-

" Standard tech isn’t what I say it is. It’s what works. And what works has already been established. So it isn’t for me to say it’s different. And it isn’t for anybody else to say it’s different either, because we fought for it, and we won it the hard way. Now let’s consolidate it."

What Ed does works. :)


"...In theory I only promote " Standard tech"....."

Let us all know what you do "in reality", if you ever get there.

[olska]

...

If something works it can't be refuted.

Hubbard had a wonderful goal of getting the man in the street to provide a superior psychotherapy. With a well trained C/S. It sort of worked. With experts, does work in my long experience and opinion.

This whole thing is in an area difficult to quantify.
...


Your right, it "works" alright, but not to accomplish the "wonderful goal" that you ascribe to Hubbard. Hubbard's "goals" for scientology were never to benefit the "man in the street" and what amazes me is that you can still believe that in light of all the evidence now available that says otherwise.

I have always maintained, and still do, that

"scientology" works just as it was intended to do.

It serves Hubbard's lust for power and wealth as it makes people his "slaves" -- it turns peoples minds into mush, eliminates their critical thinking skills and skepticism so effectively that they behave as so many scientologists have behaved and still do: like addicts who fear their "fix" (scientology) will be permanently taken from them.

It ruins their courage, their personal integrity, their intelligence, their wit and spontanaeity, their creativity, their common sense, their self esteem, their social and personal values, etc. etc. etc.

The effects of this can be seen in the appalling behaviors of "dedicated scientologists" -- for which there is much testimony right here on this forum from people who observed it or who were at one time "hooked" and lived to overcome and regret their own apalling behaviors in service of Hubbard's agenda.

Fortunately for them and those close to them, many FORMER scientologists have overcome this addiction/ enslavement and have recovered their will, their lives, their sanity, their integrity, their souls, and for some even the family and fortunes they once lost.

Yeah, scientology "works."

If you pour gasoline over someone and throw on a lighted match, that "works," too -- cannot be refuted.

[Dulloldfart]

This thread was a fun read......and free.

Did anyone suggest just auditing solo?

The one could decide what to charge and have agreement.......right?

Well, if someone's looking for a cheap way to do it. . . . :)

Paul

[Auditor's Toad]

Well, if someone's looking for a cheap way to do it. . . . :)

Paul


And wants to know their auditor well, too:)

[Voltaire's Child]

I have suggested to people who were interested in Scn outside CofS that they consider doing Self Analysis lists or auditing from the Handbook For Preclears- both of which are done solo without a meter.

[well_that_sucked]

I have suggested to people who were interested in Scn outside CofS that they consider doing Self Analysis lists or auditing from the Handbook For Preclears- both of which are done solo without a meter.

Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is done solo too, and probably less damaging than the cult crap you suggest

[AnonyMary]

Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is done solo too, and probably less damaging than the cult crap you suggest
:giggle:

[Dulloldfart]

Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is done solo too, and probably less damaging than the cult crap you suggest

I haven't seen any peer-reviewed published studies on that one.

Paul

[Voltaire's Child]

I haven't seen any peer-reviewed published studies on that one.

Paul

Yeah, I'd pay to see that person conduct one. On second thought, maybe this already commenced...I mean, just sayin'...

[Terril park]

Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is done solo too, and probably less damaging than the cult crap you suggest

You can quote doble blind experiments?

[Veda]

Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is done solo too, and probably less damaging than the cult crap you suggest

The drawback of likening an essentially benign text such as 'Self Analysis', and the use of its simple memory exercises, consisting of recalling pleasant experiences, with attention to various senses, such as sight, sound, touch, etc., etc., to a self-destructive action, is that - besides being an inaccurate comparison - it provides Scientology with an easy opportunity to discredit the person making the accusation.

Scientology uses mostly benign writings and actions as lead-ins to the deeper and darker regions of Scientology. These mostly benign actions are a kind of disguise that protects Scientology, and deflects criticism, plus serves to convince Scientology newbies that Scientology's critics must be deranged, since they're denouncing as destructive a simple action that is, by itself, benign.

Those new to Scientology, having read this book (or other Dianetic or Scientology books), and having (naive or deceitful) Scientologists, saying, "What is true for you is true for you," etc., and having their attention directed to a long and impressive-looking "Grade Chart," which would seem to promise "more of the same but even better," have sometimes decided to join Scientology.

"You've had a sampling of what's to come, and it only gets better."

Of course, as is now widely recognized, Scientology is a "bait and switch operation," and "what you see" is - ultimately - not "what you get."

Outside the CofS, years ago, I used 'Self Analysis' lists on "PCs" (persons receiving auditing). This was usually a brief action, with the exception of one person who insisted that, before we did his Dianetics and Lower Grades, which was what he mainly wanted, that we explore - in depth - his favorite book, 'Self Analysis', and - per his request - we did so, and with an e-meter, "running" every list of "recall questions," and every "perceptic," (loosely, "sense") that there was. Being, myself, still fairly naive at the time, I simply used my "Class V Auditor" know-how on this simple book, only deviating from its format several times to run a few items "Dianetically," (which sends back more of the person's attention to the incident), and I also addressed some "ARC breaks" from the person's past, that came up, with Scientology procedures, rather than using the suggested methods from the back of the 'Self Analysis' book.

By the time we were done, this person was probably 2/3rds of the way through any auditing he would ever need, and his 'Objectives', 'Dianetics', and 'Lower Grades' (remember, I'm still fairly naive myself), went smoothly and with positive results.

And, by then, I'd studied the materials called "NOTs," so we - briefly - addressed what would be called "NOTs phenomena," when it happened to came up, and the "PC" had a sampling of what it was like to "audit" a "BT," with me acting as the across the auditing table guide and C/S, while he audited a "BT" - So this was a fairly extensive "ride" for this person, through the land of Scientology auditing Tech, with the exception being what is sometimes called, "Implantology" (or "Xenu-ology") which even then, I sensed was something alien (no joke intended) to what actual auditing was.

(Since I was doing not only the auditing but also the C/Sing, I had considerable freedom of action.)

Wisely, IMO, I had kept this person from entering the Scientological "hamster wheel," or entering into the labyrinthine world of Hubbardian significance.

We ended off. The person was happy. And while I did send him to a field auditor for Power Processing and general review (as I also did with others), I made it clear that my recommendation was that he was done with auditing for the foreseeable future.

After this, having explored what it was like auditing Scientology processes outside the CofS, I knew it was time to do the next step in the unraveling of Scientology: Look at that "other stuff."

Even then, as naive as I was, I knew that there was a large chunk of Scientology that I'd not yet examined, notably the extensive confidential writings, by Hubbard, on persuasion, manipulation, propaganda, spying, infiltration, and covert attack, of which "Scientology Intelligence Tech" is a part.

I also was slowly becoming aware of accounts, by newly free (ex)-Scientologists, of their experiences with Hubbard and Scientology, and of other things, so it was a time of transition and learning.

Around the same time, I had a big part of my personal library shipped to me from my home, thousands of miles away, and came across a copy of an odd booklet that I had purchased at the "Org" years earlier - at an even more naive stage - and that booklet was titled, 'A Synthesis on the Russian Textbook on Pychopolitics'.

I had never seriously examined this booklet, which I had regarded as little more than a fringe novelty, and with the boxes of (1977 FBI raid) "Scientology Intelligence Tech"-related photocopies, and other curious things available to me, and with previously unreachable people, such as old time "squirrel" Jack Horner, former Senior C/S International David Mayo, and even L. Ron Hubbard Jr., available for consultation and discussion, I knew that my days of Scientological naivete were drawing to a close.

Scientology, IMO, is an enlightenment-coated trap. And, as confusing as it may sometimes seem, and as difficult as it may sometimes be to explain, that enlightenment-coating, by itself, is not necessarily a bad thing.

[SweetnessandLight]

So let's say that I wanted to get some auditing in the FZ. What would I expect to pay? I was quoted $150/hr by someone for some help handling something and I was like "WTF" (in my mind). $150/hr for someone delivering a product out of their home with zero overhead? I was thinking about 1/2 that at the most.

Am I way off on that?

I have no direct knowledge of this price stuff, but I was going to suggest you try Paul's Robo auditor for free. See the link in Paul's sig line. :)

If there is more to handle than what will blow with that, then maybe find a public health counselor for a sliding scale? Unless you really want auditing. Then work the barter system. :)

[Jump]

What is FZ auditing going for?

Donno why really - I think it's just slowly going. :confused2:



:thumbsup: