Position Available: CO OSA

[Crusty Old Bastard]

Greetings all,

Though this may have been mentioned in another thread, it is an interesting thought. Mike Rinder is of course out now, and while that has a great potential (in his perhaps coming forward publicly with information) it also carries a rather ominous liability: the CO OSA position is now available.

Interesting. This means DM can take the most zealotous lackey he thinks will be a good order taker, post them on the post and now run OSA more easily without having to deal with and CI from Rinder.

Now, I had no direct experience with Mike Rinder personally - but for some reason I am willing to bet he may have given DM a run for his money at times. He seemed to be the kind of person that had a streak of F*&% You in him.

But now the post will be held by whomever DM elects, unless of course it remains empty and he just issues orders as CO OSA himself. Perhaps more likely given his self importance, though wiser it would be to have someone there to take the fall, a shield of Plausible Deniability.

Either scenario is quite fascinating. The off-the-rails head of the Church now becomes the direct head of it's secret police, or runs it through a proxy CO who does whatever DM directs without question.

A recipe for disaster in any whole track history book.

Mike, if you ever read this board we sure would love to hear from you. You are in a unique position. You may have the power to effect changes that otherwise could not be done. If the Church is to be reformed, you could certainly contribute, more than any other person I can think of at this juncture.

While I am not sure reformation of the Church is possible, starting with the ex-head of its secret police coming forward would sure make for a good start.

It would take the removal of centralized unchecked authority and the institution of a watch dog board of elected public (non-SO) members responsible for answering to the general membership and whom had authority to veto or influence decisions made by management or the direction management takes. I.E. rather than allow "the Church" (DM) to spend (reg public) for potentially hundreds of millions for swank new quarters, this body would have the authority to say instead "we, and the membership represented by us, do not not support this program. It is therefor vetoed until it can be proven to be in alignment with policy and shown to be successful."

The membership needs to have a say in the directions Int Mgt takes. After all, its supposed to be their religion right?

This body would have the rights to review all justice actions, give amnesty where deemed so and the right to cancel false SP declares, etc.

It would demand quarterly financial statements and have full access to all finance lines and filings, etc. and the duty to truthfully report the same to the membership.

Any Scn would have an open line to their continental or area elected representative and could freely discuss matters of concern either privately or through town hall style meetings with their representative.

THIS should be the function of the currently powerless IAS representatives.

The monastic system of the Sea Organization could remain intact. Monasticism has a proven history as a workable organizational system. HOWEVER, the insane aspects of it would need to cease. Sea Org members would have full health care, including preventive health care, etc. They would have their two weeks off, etc. and they would ACTUALLY get trained and processed. Each 5 year period would automatically earn them $50,000 in awards - valid whether they remain in the Sea Org or not. You earned it and can "cash it in" whenever you so desire. Same with Org staff. It is utterly asinine to use the current system of no-pay, no awards, nothing. If you complete a contract you are awarded the money. Hell, it costs practically nothing to deliver $50K in service anyway.

The current culture of power-tripping, ego-centric, perfectionist, militant zealotism would be changed into one which at least approximated the culture of a true religion having spiritual advancement as its goal. It wouldn't happen over night, but it COULD be changed. After all, the culture we all so painfully see and have experienced is but the outward manifestation of the inward nature of the INDIVIDUALS running it.

Oh, one more thing: Make a policy that you don't assign an un-trained, inexperienced teenager to "handle" a Class VIII or an OT. Sorry, life-assignment policy applies. Someone who as never so much as experienced sex and has no understanding of the human condition in general and no training has no business whatsoever suping, correcting and "handling" those who are light-years beyond them in tech, admin and just damn common sense. Your a teenager - what the hell do you know?

You should at least get a terminal to work with who has as much experience in Scn as you do, or AT LEAST one older than your meter.

If such teens (or those of any age) are found power tripping with their immortal self-righteousness, I am sure ample jobs can be found for them which cultivate humility. That's been part of monasticism for a very long time and seems to work exceeding well.

A minister SERVES people. They thus earn respect.

Loyal Officers where loyal to the people. And thus earned respect.

Respect is an EARNED quality. You don't get to put on a uniform and automatically get to boss people around. That is called a ser fac. It is not effective and earns no respect.

Institute a system whereby those members who wish to partake in the Sea Organization can be truly respected for their contributions, and allow them to go up the Bridge too.

Of course, the Church (or some in it) would adamantly refuse this as, after all, "people have only their banks in common", and as all Scn's know - "people will elect only those persons who will most do them in". Yet perhaps those thinking this should examine the history of the centralized authority system the Church has tried . . .

Pat and Anne Broker
(Failed power push)
(Hell, maybe they WERE chosen by LRH . . . the world may never know. DM certainly didn't stop them at the Founders Day Event.)

Viki Aznaran
(Failed power push, first head of RTC)

David Miscavige
(Failed power push, Type III)
Time will tell.

And realize instead they have indeed succumbed to the exact mechanism they feared - they have allowed their Church to be taken over THREE TIMES by individuals of questionable intent.

Is it possible they have done nothing BUT elect their own executioners all along?

Perhaps it is time to change to op basis, no?

Perhaps Scientology could then truly become a religion of the eighteenth, err . . . twenty-first century.

COB

[Terril park]

Great post!

But Miscavidge type III? Or do you jest?

He is a very intelligent and thus very dangerous SP.

What other type could wreak such destruction of our former church?

[Eamonn Gosney]

If the CO of the OSA has been removed from post, then I commend Mr Miscavige for taking this action.

Although he was an Aussie, Mike Rinder was not the right person to have in the position.

The person required needs to be someone who has lots of ARC and communicates in a friendly manner with critics. Someone who can understand what they are feeling and where they are coming from. A nice pleasant person who isn't into make wrong, and unleashing the vicious dogs on folks.

Mike, I'm sorry about what has happened. Keep your chin up and think of all the waves you will now be able to catch off Bondi :happydance:



Eamonn

[everfree]

The person required needs to be someone who has lots of ARC and communicates in a friendly manner with critics. Someone who can understand what they are feeling and where they are coming from. A nice pleasant person who isn't into make wrong, and unleashing the vicious dogs on folks.

What gives you the idea that Rinder had any control over what he said and how he said it?

[Eamonn Gosney]

What gives you the idea that Rinder had any control over what he said and how he said it?


Of course he had control over what went down in relation to OSA. If you are saying that he was a puppet and someone else was pulling his strings, then why did he remain on the post for all the years he did?

When you are on a post, you are the one who is ultimately responsible for what goes on. Anyone on a post who is being directed to do things that they do not believe is right, then it is up the them to make this known and resign from the post.

Rinder is fully responsible for everything that happened at OSA whilst he was the CO.



Eamonn

[everfree]

Of course he had control over what went down in relation to OSA. If you are saying that he was a puppet and someone else was pulling his strings, then why did he remain on the post for all the years he did?

Because he did what he was told.


When you are on a post, you are the one who is ultimately responsible for what goes on. Anyone on a post who is being directed to do things that they do not believe is right, then it is up the them to make this known and resign from the post.

Done.

[beyond_horizons]

Great post!

But Miscavidge type III? Or do you jest?

He is a very intelligent and thus very dangerous SP.

What other type could wreak such destruction of our former church?
I was thinking the 'founder' who went by LRH. :confused2:

[Mick Wenlock]

Greetings all,

Though this may have been mentioned in another thread, it is an interesting thought. Mike Rinder is of course out now, and while that has a great potential (in his perhaps coming forward publicly with information) it also carries a rather ominous liability: the CO OSA position is now available.

Interesting. This means DM can take the most zealotous lackey he thinks will be a good order taker, post them on the post and now run OSA more easily without having to deal with and CI from Rinder.

Now, I had no direct experience with Mike Rinder personally - but for some reason I am willing to bet he may have given DM a run for his money at times. He seemed to be the kind of person that had a streak of F*&% You in him.


Mike used to have some piss and vinegar to him back whn I first met in the FB in 78. By 1984 he had changed - he was Vicki Aznaran's Communicator by then and had, to my eyes, become just another flunky.

I liked Mike, I used to have a lot of respect for him but after watching him working as CO OSA I lost all respect for him. If he agreed with what was being done by OSA in the 90's then he is a scumbag. If he disagreed with it then he should have stopped it. There is no middle way here.



But now the post will be held by whomever DM elects, unless of course it remains empty and he just issues orders as CO OSA himself. Perhaps more likely given his self importance, though wiser it would be to have someone there to take the fall, a shield of Plausible Deniability.


Probably Kurt Weiland.




Either scenario is quite fascinating. The off-the-rails head of the Church now becomes the direct head of it's secret police, or runs it through a proxy CO who does whatever DM directs without question.

A recipe for disaster in any whole track history book.


The trouble for Miscavige is that if he gets a competent person as CO OSA he will have just created his biggest possible rival.

[Lulu Belle]

I'd be really surprised if Rinder was on the CO OSA post when he blew.

I thoguht he was up at Int in The Hall?

[TheSneakster]

not important

[Mick Wenlock]

IIRC, BFG's report was that Rinder blew because he was going to be sent to the SP Hall.

The Sneakster

I think he had been back and forth similar to Guillaume and Yager, not a great existence I would have thought.

[Div6]

I think he had been back and forth similar to Guillaume and Yager, not a great existence I would have thought.

Yah, according to earlier BFG posts he has been shoveling shit in Hemet (http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=182237&highlight=) for quite a while. Only time he got to wear a suit was when he had to go 'meet the press'.

"Talking about Mike Rinder, Mr Scientology PR - He seems to be the only talking for Scientology these days since Tom so majorly fucked things up. I would love for the media to know what Mike Rinder is doing while not on TV - Here is a guy that was knee deep in shit. I am not speaking figuratively - At the Int Base the entire property is managed by their own sewage system. All of the shit is pumped out to two huge ponds (as big as two football fields) where it is aired out and evaporates into the air. Well, since the shit is so thick at the Int Base - it does not evaporate that well and must be manually taken out of the pond every few years and sent to the dump. Here comes the good part - because the all of the CMO INT staff were such assholes - Dave had them spend at least 2 weeks FULL TIME day and night (Sunrise to Midnight) cleaning all of the shit out of these ponds. We are talking about trucks and trucks loaded with shit that had to be shoveled up and bucket brigaded out of these huge ponds. When shit is several months old it is basically like chucky dirt and very dusty. Imagine having to breathe shitdust all day and all night. Talk about the Anti-Purif! Well that is exactly what Rinder does while not on TV saying how Bruce Hines is full of shit - No Mike - YOU are full of shit - literally from breathing it full time for weeks on end. So yeah Mark Yager, Mark Ingber, G Leserve, Rinder and all of theother Top scientology "execs" shoveling shit full time becuase Dave wanted to punish them. I would love for someone to pop that question to Mike while on the air, "Is it true that you yourself are a shit expert, having worked with it for quite some time?"

[Bea Kiddo]

Well, sorry to interject here....


Mike Rinder has not been the CO OSA for years. I don't remember the CO OSA's name, but he is a German guy.

I remember after 9/11 attacks he gave the whole base a briefing. It was not Mike Rinder.

I knew the difference between Australian and German accent.

I think he was WDC OSA, which is a CMO Int post.

He had been uplines for years and years when I was at the HGB.

CO OSA post is in the HGB, on Hollywood Blvd.

----


But this does mean the WDC OSA post is up for grabs....

[Lulu Belle]

Mike Rinder has not been the CO OSA for years. I don't remember the CO OSA's name, but he is a German guy.

I remember after 9/11 attacks he gave the whole base a briefing. It was not Mike Rinder.

I knew the difference between Australian and German accent.

I think he was WDC OSA, which is a CMO Int post.

He had been uplines for years and years when I was at the HGB.

CO OSA post is in the HGB, on Hollywood Blvd.

----


But this does mean the WDC OSA post is up for grabs....

Yeah, this was exactly what I thought.

Rinder kept getting promoted from that post, then being put back on it. I think he was LRH PRO Int for a while. WDC OSA for a while. But he kept being put back on as the CO OSA Int.

I was under the impression, though, that he hadn't been on that post for years.

Bea, could you be thinking of Kurt Weiland? I think he's German. He's another one that had bounced back and forth between OSA Int and uplines.

[Bea Kiddo]

Yes, it is Kurt Weiland. At least he was around 9/11.

[Mick Wenlock]

Yes, it is Kurt Weiland. At least he was around 9/11.

Kurt, now there's a person with some interesting pedigree. He was in GO MUnich back in the day (when Jens Bogvad was CO MUnich) IIRC he was in B1. He married an american - Janet Wiland who ended up as PPRO Int when Kurt went over to OSA Int.

I read - and I have to confess I don't remember where I read it - that he was on the RPF in 2003 which, given the lack of grads I would guess he would still be on.

Kurt was, I think, Austrian.

I always wondered what happened to Edith Buchele?

[Bea Kiddo]

Kurt, now there's a person with some interesting pedigree. He was in GO MUnich back in the day (when Jens Bogvad was CO MUnich) IIRC he was in B1. He married an american - Janet Wiland who ended up as PPRO Int when Kurt went over to OSA Int.

I read - and I have to confess I don't remember where I read it - that he was on the RPF in 2003 which, given the lack of grads I would guess he would still be on.

Kurt was, I think, Austrian.

I always wondered what happened to Edith Buchele?

Wow. I was just talking about Edith this morning.... And here you mention the name.

The last I heard of her was in 95ish when her underage daughter Jasmine attempted suicide at CCI (while Edith was the CO OSA Germany). Jasmine had drank a bottle of rubbing alcohol and called 911 and told them about being abused at CCI on schedules and how she was not treated well.

Big flap at that time.

All minor SO members were then put onto the TTC, because they were expecting an inspection. I dont remember what was the outcome of that, unfortunately.

But that was the last info I had on mommy. I think she was pulled back from Germany at that time, but I dont know where she went after that.

[Mick Wenlock]

Wow. I was just talking about Edith this morning.... And here you mention the name.

The last I heard of her was in 95ish when her underage daughter Jasmine attempted suicide at CCI (while Edith was the CO OSA Germany). Jasmine had drank a bottle of rubbing alcohol and called 911 and told them about being abused at CCI on schedules and how she was not treated well.

Big flap at that time.

All minor SO members were then put onto the TTC, because they were expecting an inspection. I dont remember what was the outcome of that, unfortunately.

But that was the last info I had on mommy. I think she was pulled back from Germany at that time, but I dont know where she went after that.

now that's weird.

I was thinking of Edith because my one day spell as "CO OSA Int" she was my D/CO (just so you don't think I have you being bugged!)

Any news on Klaus?

And the reaction about the kids - ain't it typical? No intention to fix the damned problem, just try and make it look OK for the "wogs".

[Dulloldfart]

Any news on Klaus?


He was working at David Morse & Associates in LA when I was there in 2003. Last I heard he was still there.

Paul

[Crusty Old Bastard]

Well, sorry to interject here....


Mike Rinder has not been the CO OSA for years. I don't remember the CO OSA's name, but he is a German guy.

I remember after 9/11 attacks he gave the whole base a briefing. It was not Mike Rinder.

I knew the difference between Australian and German accent.

Snicker . . . yes, those damn subtle nuances between Aussies and Krauts. Bloody near identical. And so similar in mannerism too.

LMAO - not.

Too funny Bea . . .

(Put the knife down Emma . . :no: I was just joking)


I think he was WDC OSA, which is a CMO Int post.

He had been uplines for years and years when I was at the HGB.

CO OSA post is in the HGB, on Hollywood Blvd.

But this does mean the WDC OSA post is up for grabs....

That is all pretty interesting Bea. Thanks for clarifying that. The last I knew (this was definitely pre 9/11) Rinder was CO OSA, this would have been around 2000 - but it seems like it was just one of the times he was "back on" the post.

I had also forgotten in general about the WDC OSA presence - I tend to rather forget the WDC members as (IMHO) they never seemed more than DM, Yager, Rinder and the lot anyway - so it seemed rather silly even having a "Watch Dog Committee" comprised of the same members of the heads of the groups they were "watching" . . . riiiiiight. Very effective, and it seems to have worked out quite well! LOL. . .

It is interesting though that Kurt Weiland was / is / might again be CO OSA.

I do think it will be intriguing to see how it plays out. Just another interesting chapter to the story.

Thanks for the data Bea!

COB

[Crusty Old Bastard]

Great post!

But Miscavidge type III? Or do you jest?

He is a very intelligent and thus very dangerous SP.

What other type could wreak such destruction of our former church?

Good point Terril - I was in fact using that in jest. I don't truly believe he is type III. That statement was based on the traits of keeping others subservient and what appears to be near God like self-importance, but these things alone a type III doth not make of course.

I have never personally met the man, though I of course know several who have. Their opinions are naturally filtered through the glasses they were wearing at the time.

It is quite ironic for me to be honest. I used the think the man was amazing. That I say he is filled with self-importance now is an absolute 180 degree swing from my opinion in the past. I honestly and sincerely believed that he was extremely humble, and true example of selfless dedication. Always directing the applause to LRH, never mentioning himself, never saying "I was behind this project" or "It was me who pushed to have this done."

Granted I was "on board" at the time, but it truly seemed he was a pretty amazing character. Saved the Church from the teetering brink and all.

I of course over time came to see how fantastically skilled in PR he is. I have no doubt whatsoever he has a razor sharp wit.

But then you slowly learn that all the re-writes, the "arbitraries removed", all the new programs like this "Ideal Org" insanity and of course the GAT perfectionism bent, etc. are in fact ALL him. And he allows no one else to contribute. And casts all the management terminals I used to respect into some hellish pergaroty of existance with some Nazi totalitarianistic tactics, etc.

A different character emerges.

It used to be event speaches were shared between the Int Execs. Remember those days? I used to actually like seeing them. It seemed we had a real team. Hey, I never expected them to be perfect - hardly. But at least they seemed sincere and you could have some faith in them.

For years now its pretty much only been DM at the podium. As I recall it was the IAS "Victory" event where, for the first time, DM MC'ed the entire event. It was a big deal. Nowadays its that way all the bloody time and people think nothing of it. And he is the last on the RTC website. Fascinating.

For what its worth, I never really cared that he took over in the last real power push. Hey, so he won. Honestly, that's pretty much the way life works in Organizations the majority of the time. Its all fine as long as the guys who win are the "good guys". Though this may be hotly disputed, I even think he and the rest of "the gang" were in the beginning trying to do some good, preserve the tech and get the show on the road. But a lot can change in twenty years. I just don't think he ever stopped "overthrowing" the enemy - he failed to recognize he had actually succeeded and should have made a new game rather than worry about who would get him.

Seems to me his Grade V and VA were just wildly out. Or never run. And hay, dramatizes = R6 unflat. But this could be said of many in positions of power in the Church, not just him. (And how this is justified by members is worth a study by itself!)

Perhaps when the current regime falls it will prompt Scn's to adopt a more workable system then nominate a singular grand poomba to lead them off into winter campaigns. But I think that may be a bit optimistic.

People like to have heroes. An avatar who embodies those traits you see as most noble. It gives us hope, makes us say "see - it is possible to gave good guys." It is nice to have people you respect and admire.

It is just unfortunate when they turn out to have settled with the IRS for 12 Million, hired an ex assistant director of the IRS and secretly formed a hidden corporation with this him and some non-Scientology attorneys to act as the guardian corporation of all the sacred scriptures of the religion you have dedicated your life to, fought for, defended and supported.

The knife of a betrayal of that magnitude leaves a deep wound. It tends to cut the ARC rather neatly.

Any comments I have made regarding DM should be taken in light of the above. The ARC X depends on the prior amount of ARC.

I bare him no actual ill will and wish he would simply step down and let Scientologists have their Church and Religion back. It was never "his" to begin with. The tech came first, the Church next, him last.

I correct my statement. I do not think him type III.

"Betrayer of trust" is more accurate.

But such is life. I only wish Scn's could see what is pounding them on the snout every day.

COB

[Bea Kiddo]

Thanks for the data Bea!

COB


I am humbled....:wink2:

[Crusty Old Bastard]

Bea . . . Silly girl. :wink2:

[Alanzo]

I hope that the next person to take over the post of CO OSA makes sure that Alanzo gets his SP Declare.

[Bea Kiddo]

I hope that the next person to take over the post of CO OSA makes sure that Alanzo gets his SP Declare.

What makes you so special that you deserve one? Only super special people like me get those!!!

Joking aside, its really WTF?!?!?! On who gets declared and who doesnt.

Where is the consistency, people?

C'Mon!!!