Mark Janicello - "Naked in the Spotlight" Swiss TV Interview with subtitles.

[petervh]

From Janicello's Blog:

Hello Everyone,

This is an interview that I did for Swiss Television with Patric Kees about my experiences with the Scientology Organization, my life, career and my new book : "Nackt im Rampenlicht" . The interview is in German with english subtitles.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76F0qVuq94

[Nicole]

:hmm:

I never heard about Mark Janicello, but may be it isn't my Music.

He provides $cientologies Human Right Campaign in the public and because of singing "Ave Maria" he got arrested. Can't believe this. There must have happened more.


During I heard this Interview I had lots of :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: !


My opinion when a person makes advertising for $cientology and stands in the public, there should be lots of protests.... It was right how the people react.

...and BTW this is the (I guess) 6th Mark Janicello Thread, why not putting alltogether?

[Infinite]

How reassuring to see that protesting Scientology celebrities helps to wake them up as well countering whatever positive press they generate for the cult. Perhaps one day the irony of a Scientologist speaking up for human rights will give Mark a chuckle or two. In the meantime, it would appear he's still got the wrong WHO and the wrong WHY. Then again, perhaps he's being careful with his public statements. Either way, I'm pleased to see him out and hope he stays off the cans.

[Nicole]

How reassuring to see that protesting Scientology celebrities helps to wake them up as well countering whatever positive press they generate for the cult.Perhaps one day the irony of a Scientologist speaking up for human rights will give Mark a chuckle or two. In the meantime, it would appear he's still got the wrong WHO and the wrong WHY. Then again, perhaps he's being careful with his public statements. Either way, I'm pleased to see him out and hope he stays off the cans.


Way to go! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


But he left in 2003, this wasn't Anonymous. Again a :hmm:

[degraded being]

I don't think he's being too honest. He says he dealt with int management not ordinary Scientologists and then claims that he did not know he was being used as a poster boy. He must have at least known that he was some sort of publicity tool.
I suppose he has to sell the idea that he was naive, to get some damage control over the disaster it caused being a scientologist in Europe. Lovely to know that over there they refuse to play along with the cults publicity stunts. :thumbsup:
I suspect he was pushing the cult far more than he admits and the freedom of religion thing is just his revisionist history of his real previous purposes.
It sounds like he may have been fairgamed by the cult too, and that possibly he may be BSing about being let go so easily. He took a long time to give non-answers on couple of the questions. Great to hear how cult promotion is such a non starter over there.

[Infinite]

Way to go! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


But he left in 2003, this wasn't Anonymous. Again a :hmm:

Anonymous is the Johnny-Come-Lately to the anti-Scientology movement.


http://www.abendblatt.de/multimedia/archive/00483/Ursula_Caberta_HA_B_483974c.jpg


L E G E N D


Ursula Caberta y Diaz (born 22 March 1950 in Hamburg) is a German politician, State of Hamburg government official and was the Commissioner for the Scientology Task Force of the Hamburg Interior Authority. She graduated in political economy. According to Deutsche Welle she was considered an expert on the subject of Scientology, and has observing the organization since 1992[1] to 2010.[2] Her book Schwarzbuch Scientology (The Black Book of Scientology) was published in 2007.[1] Caberta is also an official in Hamburg's authority for interior affairs.[3][4]

The Hamburg Scientology Task Force (AGS) was founded in 1992, to monitor the activities of Scientology, and educate the public on the activities and objectives of Scientology. Furthermore, the AGS provided advice to people wishing to leave the organization.[5] The Task Force was closed down in 2010 as a result of budget cuts. [6]

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Caberta

[MrNobody]

Hmmm... This interview didn't really convince me - for example he mentioned several times that he felt (personally, financially, career-wise etc) threatened in several ways by the criticisms, but he never mentioned that he had ever tried to ask ... ugh... for example the people wearing the "Scientology kills" t-shirts, why they were wearing these shirts. I'm certain that the majority of the critics would have gladly told him what their beef with this cult was.

OK, he left the Cof$, because they didn't support him anymore when he had no more money, but if that is all, it's kinda disappointing. He still seems to have a loooong way to go.

EDIT
Also: He said the criticism came up in the nineties, which just shows his deliberate blindness. I've read the 1st critical book about that cult somewhen in the mid-70's.

[Jachs]

Great hes out, saw behind scientologys mask.

Our reputation in europe affecting you is not our problem,

who would have guessed that?

Never support a friend in need or danger.

[marjan]

Hello, this is Mark Janicello. I heard about this Forum from one of my fans.
I see there have been a few posts about me here.

Regarding my video -- of COURSE I am being VERY careful about what I am saying.
I know how SCN works. I already spent 4,5 years in court dealing with the outfall of my years with SCN. I certainly don't want to be taken back into court by Mr. Miscavage and Co...

For those who don't believe that I could be arrested for singing the Ave maria,
you are very wrong. Take a look here:
http://www.markjanicello.net/nackt%20im%20rampenlicht%20FOTOS.htm

Although I am not speaking about the tech publicly, I have a very, VERY strong opinion about it - -but I am keeping that for myself. Like I say, me and my book are being VERY CAREFULLY watched.

I am walking a fine line... and will continue to do.

As to the rest of the comments, when the book comes out in English, you will get the full story.

Regards,
Mark

[Nicole]

<snip>for example the people wearing the "Scientology kills" t-shirts, why they were wearing these shirts. I'm certain that the majority of the critics would have gladly told him what their beef with this cult was.

OK, he left the Cof$, because they didn't support him anymore when he had no more money, but if that is all, it's kinda disappointing. He still seems to have a loooong way to go.

EDIT
Also: He said the criticism came up in the nineties, which just shows his deliberate blindness. I've read the 1st critical book about that cult somewhen in the mid-70's.


The first time I saw protesters with the "Scientology kills" T-Shirts where Anonymous... I wondered about this. Critcs did exists earlier, but I can't remember protests on the streets or in front of theaters etc. Imo Anonymous started with that.



In the 90's started the discussion about observing $cientology with the secret service. ...and in the 90's they started with the observing. OSA made big publicity work against this and the critics with eg Ursula Caberta did a great job against OSAs manipulations. Even some Exs eg Jeanette Schweitzer and Norbert Potthoff spoke out.... But they didn't protest on the streets with "Scientology kills" shirts.



Something is there wrong. ... or may be I lived really behind a curtain or something like that.

[marjan]

Hello to all of you, this is Mark Janicello. One of my fans told me about this website. I see that there have been quite a few postings about my book.

I read some of the comments here, and would like to answer some of you, if you are interested.

Number One, I am being extremely cautious about what I say publicly about SCN in my interviews. I spent more than 4 years in court cleaning up the mess that SCN brought into my life. I know how this organization works, as I was intimately involved with OSA, IAS, and a number of other Int. Level divisions.

Just because I do not criticize the philosophy publicly, does not mean that I do not have a very, very strong opinion. I do, but my opinion, I will keep to myself. I am being cautions. I don't want any more lawsuits. I have to walk a fine line.. and I am going to do that.

The Scientology Kills T-Shirts were being worn to my theatrical performances as early as 1998. Anonymous was NOT the first to use them.

Some of you don't "believe" my interview. That is of course your right to do so. However, if you'd like proof of my being arrested, check out the photos here:
http://www.markjanicello.net/nackt%20im%20rampenlicht%20FOTOS.htm

Some of you think that I had to "know" about my being used by PR.
I knew that there was "internal" PR, yes. But I never saw any "external" PR. That was brought to my attention by a reporter, as I said in this interview.

One thing that most of you don't realize is that German-speaking Europe is not the USA. When I started to have major problems, I was literally fighting to survive. In the middle of a storm, you do not always see the shore.

However, most importantly, the press is concentrating only on certain aspects of my story. The whole story is in my book. The book will be coming out in english in the US and the UK. I am working on that.

For those of you who don't "buy it," "believe it" or "doubt my intentions" in writing this book and giving these interviews, I can only say "Walk a mile in my shoes"

I do not lie. I don't have to. The truth was terrible enough.

Regards,
Mark Janicello

[MrNobody]

The first time I saw protesters with the "Scientology kills" T-Shirts where Anonymous... I wondered about this. Critcs did exists earlier, but I can't remember protests on the streets or in front of theaters etc. Imo Anonymous started with that. <snip>

No, it was the old guard critics who came up with the shirts. Ask one of them when exactly that was, but as far as I can say, early or mid '90s is probably correct.

EDIT
You can see those shirts in some of Mark Bunker's old videos.

Also: Look for some old LMT- (Lisa McPherson Trust) stuff, I believe that's where these shirts stem from.

[Free to shine]

Mark - welcome to ESMB! :welcome:

[Nicole]

Hello to all of you, this is Mark Janicello. One of my fans told me about this website. I see that there have been quite a few postings about my book.

I read some of the comments here, and would like to answer some of you, if you are interested.

Number One, I am being extremely cautious about what I say publicly about SCN in my interviews. I spent more than 4 years in court cleaning up the mess that SCN brought into my life. I know how this organization works, as I was intimately involved with OSA, IAS, and a number of other Int. Level divisions.

Just because I do not criticize the philosophy publicly, does not mean that I do not have a very, very strong opinion. I do, but my opinion, I will keep to myself. I am being cautions. I don't want any more lawsuits. I have to walk a fine line.. and I am going to do that.

The Scientology Kills T-Shirts were being worn to my theatrical performances as early as 1998. Anonymous was NOT the first to use them.

Some of you don't "believe" my interview. That is of course your right to do so. However, if you'd like proof of my being arrested, check out the photos here:
http://www.markjanicello.net/nackt%20im%20rampenlicht%20FOTOS.htm

Some of you think that I had to "know" about my being used by PR.
I knew that there was "internal" PR, yes. But I never saw any "external" PR. That was brought to my attention by a reporter, as I said in this interview.

One thing that most of you don't realize is that German-speaking Europe is not the USA. When I started to have major problems, I was literally fighting to survive. In the middle of a storm, you do not always see the shore.

However, most importantly, the press is concentrating only on certain aspects of my story. The whole story is in my book. The book will be coming out in english in the US and the UK. I am working on that.

For those of you who don't "buy it," "believe it" or "doubt my intentions" in writing this book and giving these interviews, I can only say "Walk a mile in my shoes"

I do not lie. I don't have to. The truth was terrible enough.

Regards,
Mark Janicello

Hello and Welcome Marc,

I have doubts and I have them against lots of things and persons. Don't take it personal. :) It's a "gift" from Scientology.

A moment ago I read your "Stellungnahme" about Scientology and you wrote you are on a Black List from the "Verfasungsschutz" ("secret service"). Is it the Verfassungsschutz Bayern? I was in contact with the secret service (not Bayern), it were very nice persons and I never heard about this black list. They are lucky about every information. Don't understand this. Could I view this list? Can I call the Secret Service, and ask who is blacklisted? They were very carefull in giving me informations and things they know.

You wrote you sing "Ave Maria" and you got arrested. Imo you didn't get arrested because of singing "Ave Maria" and you didn't get arrested because of beeing a Scientologist. I can't believe this part. Something more must happened... May be you don't listen at the policeman advices or the demonstration was not allowed. It exists rules about demonstrations.

Anyway nice that you found your way on this board. :yes:

I would love to hear more...
:drama:

Nicole

[Nicole]

No, it was the old guard critics who came up with the shirts. Ask one of them when exactly that was, but as far as I can say, early or mid '90s is probably correct.

EDIT
You can see those shirts in some of Mark Bunker's old videos.

Also: Look for some old LMT- (Lisa McPherson Trust) stuff, I believe that's where these shirts stem from.

:ohmy:

I lived behind a curtain or wall or .... :nervous:

[MrNobody]

Mark,

You can pump out a gazillion of "PR & Cult damage control" threads, and spread them all over the internet and/or any media. That will not not change my skeptic point of view.

What might change my view, would be a few clear answers to these questions:

What do you know about Paulette Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulette_Cooper) and operation freakout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout)?
What do you know about Lisa McPhearson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson)?
What do you know about operation snowwhite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_SnowWhite)?

(Please reply with a recent point of view, not one you might have had in the past)

If you have anything to answer to the above questions, then here's my last one for now: Did that change your personal opinion about the criticism that you had to deal with over the years in any way?

[Outethicsofficer]

Hello, this is Mark Janicello. I heard about this Forum from one of my fans.
I see there have been a few posts about me here.

Regarding my video -- of COURSE I am being VERY careful about what I am saying.
I know how SCN works. I already spent 4,5 years in court dealing with the outfall of my years with SCN. I certainly don't want to be taken back into court by Mr. Miscavage and Co...

For those who don't believe that I could be arrested for singing the Ave maria,
you are very wrong. Take a look here:
http://www.markjanicello.net/nackt%20im%20rampenlicht%20FOTOS.htm

Although I am not speaking about the tech publicly, I have a very, VERY strong opinion about it - -but I am keeping that for myself. Like I say, me and my book are being VERY CAREFULLY watched.

I am walking a fine line... and will continue to do.

As to the rest of the comments, when the book comes out in English, you will get the full story.

Regards,
Mark

Welcome Mark,
I enjoyed the interview. When going from being in a cult to somewhere else we can be wobbly on our feet...making it hard to walk that fine line. I wish you the very best for the future.
Cheers
James

[marjan]

Hello Mr. Nobody and Nicole,

I am not here to change your points of view. That's your job, not mine.

I don't know who you are, or what your relationship with SCN is, or was.
Obviously, you are still quite angry about a lot of things, which I can understand.

The chapter about my being arrested in Munich is what opens my book.
I sang "Ave maria" a capella, in a legal demonstration for religious freedom and was taken into police custody. You can choose to believe that or not, but that is what happened.

As to the Verfassungschutz etc... Direct information was given to me from numerous record company executives, Concert Promoters and Theater Owners, who I know very well and trust. Whether the Verfassungschutz will admit to it or not, I know it existed. I saw it.

The facts are the facts. Just to give you one example, In June 1998, I had appeared 4 hours on different National TV stations in Germany in just that one month. I have NEVER appeared on national tv in Germany since then.

Tomorrow, I will be on "MDR um 12". That is my first national TV appearance since 1998.

Whatever you think you know, you don't have all the information.
I know MY story. I was there. I lived it, and I have the battle scars, the lawsuits and lived through the libel, slander and humiliation that went along with it.

I am not defending SCN in any way. I am just telling MY story, not yours, MINE.
However, you may continue to be as skeptical as you choose.

I have an opinion on ALL the legal issues you brought up, but that is not something I will comment on on a public forum. As I said, I have a very fine line to walk, and that is what I shall continue to do.

One last thing, I have no problem with criticism. I DO have a problem with death threats, slander, and public humiliation.
You CANNOT uphold the law by breaking it, or taking it into your own hands.

None of the Anti-Scientology protesters ever tried to contact me.
None of the press ever checked the veracity of the stories (mostly complete fabrications) they were writing.

If you want to criticize me, criticize me for something that I DID, not something imaginary.

While I can understand that many people want to destroy SCN, I had never broken any law.
Yet, I was treated as the worst criminal.
I had never enforced my opinion or beliefs on anyone.
I had NEVER mis-used one of my audiences to make PR or Advertising for SCN.
What happened to me was simply not OK. You can say whatever you want.
It was neither legal nor moral.


Regards, Mark

[MrNobody]

Hello Mr. Nobody and Nicole,

I am not here to change your points of view. That's your job, not mine.

I don't know who you are, or what your relationship with SCN is, or was.
Obviously, you are still quite angry about a lot of things, which I can understand.

The chapter about my being arrested in Munich is what opens my book.
I sang "Ave maria" a capella, in a legal demonstration for religious freedom and was taken into police custody. You can choose to believe that or not, but that is what happened.

As to the Verfassungschutz etc... Direct information was given to me from numerous record company executives, Concert Promoters and Theater Owners, who I know very well and trust. Whether the Verfassungschutz will admit to it or not, I know it existed. I saw it.


The facts are the facts, Mr. Nobody. Just to give you one example, In June 1998, I had appeared 4 hours on different National TV stations in Germany in just that one month. I have NEVER appeared on national tv in Germany since then.

Tomorrow, I will be on "MDR um 12". That is my first national TV appearance since 1998.

Whatever you think you know, you don't have all the information.
I know MY story. I was there. I lived it, and I have the battle scars, the lawsuits and lived through the libel, slander and humiliation that went along with it.

I am not defending SCN in any way. I am just telling MY story, not yours, MINE.
However, you may continue to be as skeptical as you choose.

I have an opinion on ALL the legal issues you brought up, but that is not something I will comment on on a public forum. As I said, I have a very fine line to walk, and that is what I shall continue to do.

Regards, Mark

I notice that none of my questions has been addressed in any way, shape or form, let alone been answered. I think that settles it for me ATM.

[marjan]

I notice that none of my questions has been addressed in any way, shape or form, let alone been answered. I think that settles it for me ATM.

I re-edited my answer, as I hit the send button too early.
Read it again.

Regards, Mark

[Outethicsofficer]

Mark,

You can pump out a gazillion of "PR & Cult damage control" threads, and spread them all over the internet and/or any media. That will not not change my skeptic point of view.

What might change my view, would be a few clear answers to these questions:

What do you know about Paulette Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulette_Cooper) and operation freakout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout)?
What do you know about Lisa McPhearson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson)?
What do you know about operation snowwhite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_SnowWhite)?

(Please reply with a recent point of view, not one you might have had in the past)

If you have anything to answer to the above questions, then here's my last one for now: Did that change your personal opinion about the criticism that you had to deal with over the years in any way?

Mark is new here and you are being confrontational toward him, let's cut him some slack and find his feet here, that is the least we can do.
James

[MrNobody]

I re-edited my answer, as I hit the send button too early.
Read it again.

Regards, Mark

OK, I still see none of my points addressed, But now I have an additional question.


One last thing, I have no problem with criticism. I DO have a problem with death threats, slander, and public humiliation.
You CANNOT uphold the law by breaking it, or taking it into your own hands.

What about the threats the cult manufactured against itself to frame Paulette Cooper? Do you think it could be that the death threats etc. against you was just the cult's friendly way to help you gain some publicity?

[MrNobody]

Mark is new here and you are being confrontational toward him, let's cut him some slack and find his feet here, that is the least we can do.
James

But Mom, he did it 1st!

Watch the video if you haven't already, from about 00:11:30 he's trying to pull unfounded bullshit on critics, and again somewhere around the 00:20:00 mark.


If you want to criticize me, criticize me for something that I DID, not something imaginary.

Well, that's what I did, no? I criticized his deliberate ignorance regarding the topics mentioned in my questions.

Yes, I am confrontational, because this dishonest kind of PR bullshit just pisses me off.

[marjan]

OK, I still see none of my points addressed, But now I have an additional question.



What about the threats the cult manufactured against itself to frame Paulette Cooper? Do you think it could be that the death threats etc. against you was just the cult's friendly way to help you gain some publicity?

Of course, it could be possible that SCN was behind it. Anything is possible.
There was a reporter from Baden-Wuttenburg (near Stuttgart) who was HUNTING me for years. He had no affiliation with SCN. That I know for a fact.

This man was the source of a HUGE amount of BS about me. He was egging on a great deal of the protests, and was personally responsible for my blacklisting on TV. I saw the faxes from that man with my own eyes. I called him up and confronted him.

[MrNobody]

Of course, it could be possible that SCN was behind it. Anything is possible.

<snip>

Again, you're deliberately ignorant. Read the links I gave.

[marjan]

Again, you're deliberately ignorant. Read the links I gave.

Mr. Nobody,
You are certainly welcome to your own opinion.
I won't trouble you further with my responses,
since you find me "deliberately ignorant."
Sir, I have NOTHING to prove to you.

[MrNobody]

Mr. Nobody,
You are certainly welcome to your own opinion.
I won't trouble you further with my responses,
since you find me "deliberately ignorant."
Sir, I have NOTHING to prove to you.

That's right, you have nothing to prove to me, but you should be a bit more honest to yourselves. Showing Pictures from old-guard critics wearing a shirts they made to make the many cult-related deaths known, while you're yammering about how alleged critics have been threatening you, is dishonest, ignorant and it's highly manipulative. That's what pisses me off.

[Emma]

Errr.. would I be rattling too many chains if I said "Be nice to newbies".

I really don't want ESMB WWII out of it, but can we cut these new guys some slack, please?

Welcome to ESMB Mark :wink2:

[marjan]

Errr.. would I be rattling too many chains if I said "Be nice to newbies".

I really don't want ESMB WWII out of it, but can we cut these new guys some slack, please?

Welcome to ESMB Mark :wink2:

Hello Emma, Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate a free and honest discussion. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respect that. I realized pretty quickly this morning that it's better not to respond to certain types of posts, where only ONE person's point of view counts. Had enough of that kind of "conversation" in my life already. I realize that whatever I say will be taken the wrong way by some folks here.
That is simply "part of the game."

I've been a performer my entire life.
One develops a very thick skin, otherwise you can't survive in my business.

Despite everything that happened in SCN and in Europe, I am still here.
That's the ONLY acknowledgement I need.
I am still here.
I can still sing.
Most importantly, I can still laugh!

I think a forum like this is very important.
We all shared a common experience.
It is nice to know that one is not alone.

Regards to you and the rest of this forum from Amsterdam!
Mark

[Jachs]

Hi Mark,

id like to say your not alone, i personally believe that you stood up for what you believed (at the time) was a righteous cause, ive read many stories on this board of people who did exactly the same thing only to discover they were deceived, although most werent in the spotlight like you, many of us paid a price.

Glad to hear your getting your life back on track.

[xseaorguk]

Although I sort of feel for the guy after being dropped like that by the cult.(told you so:point:
The general impression I get from him is that his main concern is his career and reputation, which is of course understandable in his situation.

The whole thing about standing up for "freedom of religion" is fine in the USA but in Germany and many other countries $cn is not recognised as a religion, so it looks silly to protest for "religous freedom".
In $cn this kind of thing are just front goups to promote $cientology without actually mentioning it.
$cientology is very toxic and you, my dear friend, had to learn the hard way.:yes:

[Nicole]

Errr.. would I be rattling too many chains if I said "Be nice to newbies".

I really don't want ESMB WWII out of it, but can we cut these new guys some slack, please?

Welcome to ESMB Mark :wink2:

Emma, usually I am very nice to Newbies.... More I don't say here in this thread anymore. Will send you a PM!

[Outethicsofficer]

But Mom, he did it 1st!

Watch the video if you haven't already, from about 00:11:30 he's trying to pull unfounded bullshit on critics, and again somewhere around the 00:20:00 mark.



Well, that's what I did, no? I criticized his deliberate ignorance regarding the topics mentioned in my questions.

Yes, I am confrontational, because this dishonest kind of PR bullshit just pisses me off.

Yes I know son but he is a newbie here for now and we don't eat the newbies, I know, I know 'bout how pissed you get at some things but like I tell your dad, 'can you please keep it in your pants...just for now:coolwink:

James

[MrNobody]

Yes I know son but he is a newbie here for now and we don't eat the newbies, I know, I know 'bout how pissed you get at some things but like I tell your dad, 'can you please keep it in your pants...just for now:coolwink:

James

Sorry, but no. Not in this case. Not when honorable and innocent (until proven otherwise) old guard critics are being connected to alleged wrong-doings against Mark's personal, vocational, financial, etc well-being. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not an old-guard critic myself, but I've been following (not constantly, but every once in a while) this cult's story and the stories of some of it's victims and/or critics for roughly 35 years.

So either Mark makes his position clear regarding this point, or he's just another agent of evil.

I understand he's a newbie and he's fighting for his future, his career and his reputation, but what his reputation suffers greatly from right now, is this blatant misrepresentation of the many people who were presenting valid and legal criticism against this cult for so many decades.

BTW: I highly doubt that any of the aforementioned critics had anything to do with what happened to him.

'nuff said

[Emma]

Sorry, but no. Not in this case. Not when honorable and innocent (until proven otherwise) old guard critics are being connected to alleged wrong-doings against Mark's personal, vocational, financial, etc well-being. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not an old-guard critic myself, but I've been following (not constantly, but every once in a while) this cult's story and the stories of some of it's victims and/or critics for roughly 35 years.

So either Mark makes his position clear regarding this point, or he's just another agent of evil.

I understand he's a newbie and he's fighting for his future, his career and his reputation, but what his reputation suffers greatly from right now, is this blatant misrepresentation of the many people who were presenting valid and legal criticism against this cult.

BTW: I highly doubt that any of the aforementioned critics had anything to with what happened to him.

'nuff said

Ok I must be missing something (or a lot).

I admit I haven't listened to any interviews or read anything about Mark.

What OG critics has Mark slimed? Lings please :) (Yes I'm lazy, but I'm also short on time)

[MrNobody]

Ok I must be missing something (or a lot).

I admit I haven't listened to any interviews or read anything about Mark.

What OG critics has Mark slimed? Lings please :) (Yes I'm lazy, but I'm also short on time)

You can fast forward the Video from the OP to 11:00 and to 18:00. After you've seen that and still disagree with me, so be it. I'll shut up now.

CORRECTION:
Sorry, my timestamps were off.
One timestamp was at 00:22:20 I can't find the other one right now. That happens when I work from the top of my head. I'll post the other one tomorrow, after I watched the vid again.

[Dilettante]

Mr. Nobody, I am fascinated and maybe a little niave about this but is the distinction here that he alludes to "attacks" by protesters that may be unfounded? This is what I am grappling with at the moment with respect to opposing the movement not an individual. I wonder about the ANON scribble on travolta's mission being created as a ruse. It is very easy to say so&so did this but what proof? It seems scio would stand to gain from negative publicity on the opposition and touting that to mr. Janicello makes perfect sense. Not good enough he denounces scio but has yet to eliminate all the "false data"? Or worse still he furthering the lies by mentioning it in interviews. It does seem to be "his" version of what he beleived. He did get a steamy pile of poop ala scio.
Dil

[Mick Wenlock]

The first time I saw protesters with the "Scientology kills" T-Shirts where Anonymous... I wondered about this. Critcs did exists earlier, but I can't remember protests on the streets or in front of theaters etc. Imo Anonymous started with that.


There were public protests against Scientology outside of AOSH EU in 1984.

Not to be funny but you should do some more reading up - people were protesting scientology when it was definitely not safe to do it and they were not anonymous.




In the 90's started the discussion about observing $cientology with the secret service. ...and in the 90's they started with the observing. OSA made big publicity work against this and the critics with eg Ursula Caberta did a great job against OSAs manipulations. Even some Exs eg Jeanette Schweitzer and Norbert Potthoff spoke out.... But they didn't protest on the streets with "Scientology kills" shirts.



ironically in the eighties scientology was observing the secret service!

[MrNobody]

Mr. Nobody, I am fascinated and maybe a little niave about this but is the distinction here that he alludes to "attacks" by protesters that may be unfounded? This is what I am grappling with at the moment with respect to opposing the movement not an individual. I wonder about the ANON scribble on travolta's mission being created as a ruse. It is very easy to say so&so did this but what proof? It seems scio would stand to gain from negative publicity on the opposition and touting that to mr. Janicello makes perfect sense. Not good enough he denounces scio but has yet to eliminate all the "false data"? Or worse still he furthering the lies by mentioning it in interviews. It does seem to be "his" version of what he beleived. He did get a steamy pile of poop ala scio.
Dil

Well, Dil, this post is not just a reply to you. Your post gives me the opportunity to try and make myself more understandable, so thanks for that. :)

It's a bit of a "that was then and this is now" issue (actually I have a lot of issues with this video, more than I'd be willing to type). I have no doubt that Mark has been fed the usual cult bullshit at that time, and he didn't have a reason to doubt that. That's just standard modus operandi for the cult, nothing unusual. That was then. But now he's had more than 10 years of time to find out what was really going on, plus he has access to the internet and all the valuable resources that are available today.

That's 10+ years for him to find out that the people wearing the "Scientology kills" t-shirts did not mean him personally, nor his ongoing projects (as far as I can say). These people were just using an opportunity he gave them, to point out the many questionable deaths that had happened and are still happening in that cult. In the ealier days it were Lisa McPherson, Josephus Havenith etc, in recent years there are Shawn Lonsdale, Kaja Bordevich Ballo etc. For a (possibly incomplete) list look here: http://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com/

It would have taken Mark only a few seconds to find this list or a similar one. He didn't do it then, which is understandable somehow, but not having done it now, when all this information is so easily available, and not using this information to find out what these protests really were about, is... well, what can I say? Ignorance is not a crime, but it isn't helpful either.

So what these protesters did was not a personal attack against Mark. In the interview he did not point that out.

His "Elvis" project (and a few others) failed, according to what he says in the video, and he presented is as if it was due to protests and personal attacks against him, which I doubt it was. Let's get real here, for a moment, shall we? Who in their right mind would openly collaborate with a poster boy for that cult? The fact that his contracts had been canceled etc was again not an attack against Mark, it was not done to hurt Mark personally. It was an understandable and kinda predictable act of self-defense by the people involved. He's had 10+ years of time to find that out, but look what he says in the video.

Another word about his "Elvis" project: Mark said he would have appreciated Lisa Marie and Priscilla to come to his aid and give him some support. Again, that was then, and it was an understandable expectation at that time. I would probably have expected something similar from my fellow cultists, had I ever been "IN". But now, in the interview, he could have quoted Elvis himself: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lisamarie.html but again, he didn't do that. Did the (Ex-?)Scientologist and allegedly best interpret of Elvis-songs not know about this statement? Again, this probably was true for Mark back then, but nowadays Google is just a mouseclick away.

BTW, citing an Elvis quote from a newspaper article wouldn't even have been "Walking a thin line," so he'd have been pretty safe to do that.

The interview was a promo-piece, and a good one at that. I don't have a problem with that - "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk" (roughly translates to "Drumming is part of the profession") as the old German saying goes, but some acknowledgement of valid criticism would not have hurt. Interpreting all criticism as personal attacks against himself did hurt. It hurt his credibility, and it was painful to watch. For me, that is.

Had he ever said something like "Yes, nowadays I know that some protesters had/have a valid point, and it wasn't all about me," which would have taken less than three seconds to say, I wouldn't have said anything. Even if such a sentence hadn't made into the final cut of the interview, I would have taken his word for it right here on this board. If he said something like that, can someone please link me to that statement? I must have missed it.

My conclusion: All in all the interview was a pretty good promo piece, but if the book reads like the interview, i.e. "The attacks were all against ME, ME, ME," and "The cult abandoned ME, ME, ME," then it's not a book I'd want to read. So in that regard, it was a huge fail, at least in my opinion - which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily mean much for the rest of the world.

If the book is not what I expect it to be after seeing this interview, then maybe Mark can learn something from my posts in this thread, so that he can "come up to present time" (apologies for using that phrase), and give better (that'd be more objective) interviews in the future. If he'd be able to throw some more honest self-criticism into the mix, all the better, but that doesn't mean I'd want to see a "Mea Culpa" interview, just a more honest and more realistic acount of what was then and what is now.

Some thoughts about the video:
Time stamp: 00:14:05

Even if Scientology is seen as a sect, it is still a belief system. When you are in court, the only thing that counts is proof. Rumor, innuendo and ideas are not proof. If anyone had been able to tell me They've done this, and this and this -- all of which is illegal. Then Scientology would have been found guilty and would have been banned for a long time already. But, it hasn't been banned.

Whatever one may feel about the philosophy itself, is a strictly personal opinion. It was my personal business.

I can understand both viewpoints, now. Of course I do. However, religious freedom is a guaranteed right -- Freedom of opinion, not only religion.

One can argue this position under the banner of freedom of opinion. Do I have a right to make my own opinion? Obviously, not is the answer.


Well, this displays a nice package of naivity and ignorance still in action. Yes, the court should have banned, shredded, and ripped to unrecognizable tiny little pieces anything Scientology, long before Mark ever joined, but fact is: They didn't. Even after Operation SnowWhite, they didn't. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, because it's everyone's own personal responsibility to make informed decisions. Whoever failed in that regard, has only him/herself to blame.

By the time Mark joined the cult, or soon thereafter, ARS was in existence and there were a few good critical publications that came many years before that. Not having heard of them at that time is an acceptable and understandable explanation, but it's not an excuse. Not back then, and much less today. Mark can worship Xenu (may be spelled X E M U) and fondle his E-meter as much as he wants, that's indeed his personal right and his personal freedom; and that's what it's always been for the past 70 something years, in (West-)Europe as well as in the USA. But having ever been a supporter of a dangerous cult that has done stuff like OP SnowWhite, OP Freakout, and all that other disgusting shit, is something he still needs to take the personal responsibility for, which comes with all these personal rights.

However, I have nothing against Mark Janicello (the person), I don't even object to the ~7 or so advertisement threads on this board, because as I said: "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk," and as long as Emma is OK with that, I'll leave it at that. I wish him all the best for his future endeavors, and I wish he'd wake up a bit more in the future.

MrN, over and out.

Ps:
@ Emma: The other snippet I mentioned was probably in another video or soundfile, and I CBA (can't be assed) to wade through all of that, so ignore that statement, rip it to pieces, whatever.

[SweetnessandLight]

Welcome, Mark! Glad you could join us here. :)

Congratulations on writing your autobiography. I'm glad it's going to be published in English as well as German.

Good luck with your career. :thumbsup:

(Pssst! I have always LOVED Ave Maria!) :happydance:

[Atalantan]

I notice that none of my questions has been addressed in any way, shape or form, let alone been answered. I think that settles it for me ATM.

You are the optimum judge of a kangaroo court, Mr. Nobody.

A person either answers your questions the way you deem correct, or they are guilty in your eyes.

[Nicole]

http://www.ingo-heinemann.de/Prominente.htm


Auch andere Scientology-Künstler beklagen sich über Diskriminierungen, darunter der mit Corea aufgetretene Mark Janicello und der in München lebende selbsternannte „Vizeweltmeister des Akkordeons“, Enrique Ugarte. Beide behaupten, ihnen seien Schallplattenverträge über hohe Summen storniert worden, nachdem ihre Weltanschauung bekannt geworden sei. Dagegen protestierten die Musiker in einem Schreiben an den Bundeskanzler. Von seiten des Musikkonzerns BMG ist freilich zu hören, es handele sich um einen Einzelvertrag mit Janicello, der wegen ausbleibenden Erfolges nicht verlängert wurde. Keineswegs versuche man bei BMG, einen „Sektenfilter“ zu installieren, wie dies von Scientologen behauptet wird. You are still promoting the same OSA Propaganda. Thats it. Look behind the mirror. :yes:

[MrNobody]

You are the optimum judge of a kangaroo court, Mr. Nobody.

A person either answers your questions the way you deem correct, or they are guilty in your eyes.

This has nothing to do with judges, courts or kangaroos. I ask a question, I get no answer, I make up my own opinion from what I've got. That's all there is to it and it's as simple as that.

[Dilettante]

Well, Dil, this post is not just a reply to you. Your post gives me the opportunity to try and make myself more understandable, so thanks for that. :)

It's a bit of a "that was then and this is now" issue (actually I have a lot of issues with this video, more than I'd be willing to type). I have no doubt that Mark has been fed the usual cult bullshit at that time, and he didn't have a reason to doubt that. That's just standard modus operandi for the cult, nothing unusual. That was then. But now he's had more than 10 years of time to find out what was really going on, plus he has access to the internet and all the valuable resources that are available today.

That's 10+ years for him to find out that the people wearing the "Scientology kills" t-shirts did not mean him personally, nor his ongoing projects (as far as I can say). These people were just using an opportunity he gave them, to point out the many questionable deaths that had happened and are still happening in that cult. In the ealier days it were Lisa McPherson, Josephus Havenith etc, in recent years there are Shawn Lonsdale, Kaja Bordevich Ballo etc. For a (possibly incomplete) list look here: http://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com/

It would have taken Mark only a few seconds to find this list or a similar one. He didn't do it then, which is understandable somehow, but not having done it now, when all this information is so easily available, and not using this information to find out what these protests really were about, is... well, what can I say? Ignorance is not a crime, but it isn't helpful either.

So what these protesters did was not a personal attack against Mark. In the interview he did not point that out.

His "Elvis" project (and a few others) failed, according to what he says in the video, and he presented is as if it was due to protests and personal attacks against him, which I doubt it was. Let's get real here, for a moment, shall we? Who in their right mind would openly collaborate with a poster boy for that cult? The fact that his contracts had been canceled etc was again not an attack against Mark, it was not done to hurt Mark personally. It was an understandable and kinda predictable act of self-defense by the people involved. He's had 10+ years of time to find that out, but look what he says in the video.

Another word about his "Elvis" project: Mark said he would have appreciated Lisa Marie and Priscilla to come to his aid and give him some support. Again, that was then, and it was an understandable expectation at that time. I would probably have expected something similar from my fellow cultists, had I ever been "IN". But now, in the interview, he could have quoted Elvis himself: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lisamarie.html but again, he didn't do that. Did the (Ex-?)Scientologist and allegedly best interpret of Elvis-songs not know about this statement? Again, this probably was true for Mark back then, but nowadays Google is just a mouseclick away.

BTW, citing an Elvis quote from a newspaper article wouldn't even have been "Walking a thin line," so he'd have been pretty safe to do that.

The interview was a promo-piece, and a good one at that. I don't have a problem with that - "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk" (roughly translates to "Drumming is part of the profession") as the old German saying goes, but some acknowledgement of valid criticism would not have hurt. Interpreting all criticism as personal attacks against himself did hurt. It hurt his credibility, and it was painful to watch. For me, that is.

Had he ever said something like "Yes, nowadays I know that some protesters had/have a valid point, and it wasn't all about me," which would have taken less than three seconds to say, I wouldn't have said anything. Even if such a sentence hadn't made into the final cut of the interview, I would have taken his word for it right here on this board. If he said something like that, can someone please link me to that statement? I must have missed it.

My conclusion: All in all the interview was a pretty good promo piece, but if the book reads like the interview, i.e. "The attacks were all against ME, ME, ME," and "The cult abandoned ME, ME, ME," then it's not a book I'd want to read. So in that regard, it was a huge fail, at least in my opinion - which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily mean much for the rest of the world.

If the book is not what I expect it to be after seeing this interview, then maybe Mark can learn something from my posts in this thread, so that he can "come up to present time" (apologies for using that phrase), and give better (that'd be more objective) interviews in the future. If he'd be able to throw some more honest self-criticism into the mix, all the better, but that doesn't mean I'd want to see a "Mea Culpa" interview, just a more honest and more realistic acount of what was then and what is now.

Some thoughts about the video:
Time stamp: 00:14:05


Well, this displays a nice package of naivity and ignorance still in action. Yes, the court should have banned, shredded, and ripped to unrecognizable tiny little pieces anything Scientology, long before Mark ever joined, but fact is: They didn't. Even after Operation SnowWhite, they didn't. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, because it's everyone's own personal responsibility to make informed decisions. Whoever failed in that regard, has only him/herself to blame.

By the time Mark joined the cult, or soon thereafter, ARS was in existence and there were a few good critical publications that came many years before that. Not having heard of them at that time is an acceptable and understandable explanation, but it's not an excuse. Not back then, and much less today. Mark can worship Xenu (may be spelled X E M U) and fondle his E-meter as much as he wants, that's indeed his personal right and his personal freedom; and that's what it's always been for the past 70 something years, in (West-)Europe as well as in the USA. But having ever been a supporter of a dangerous cult that has done stuff like OP SnowWhite, OP Freakout, and all that other disgusting shit, is something he still needs to take the personal responsibility for, which comes with all these personal rights.

However, I have nothing against Mark Janicello (the person), I don't even object to the ~7 or so advertisement threads on this board, because as I said: "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk," and as long as Emma is OK with that, I'll leave it at that. I wish him all the best for his future endeavors, and I wish he'd wake up a bit more in the future.

MrN, over and out.

Ps:
@ Emma: The other snippet I mentioned was probably in another video or soundfile, and I CBA (can't be assed) to wade through all of that, so ignore that statement, rip it to pieces, whatever.


Indeed! You make your point very clear, thanks for clarification. I respect your point of view as you present it here and other posts. I'm afraid I may fall under the same category in some respects as Mr. Janicello- I want to understand this about myself to better come to terms with the whole pile of poop. If I were interviewed and answering questions about my objections to scio my only point of reference would be my experience, no forced abortions, no slave labor, no RPF etc. I would not be able to fairly depict the circumstances involving deaths or criminal behavior on behalf of scio other than what I read and hear by others. I can directly correlate real suffering I witnessed due to the stupid tech. Truth is I will likely be in the company of die hard scios this weekend, I adore my family and will keep my objections to myself. :unsure: When I am outed as an SP I hope I that I can still maintain some decorum of tolerance for others beliefs and not be as vindictive as the tech would dictate to scio's. My position would be different if only my experience were something other than what it was. I know the atrocities are real and the potential for more suffering infuriates me :angry:. I owe a lot of thanks to Emma, Ursula, Mark Bunker, Tory, David Love and Anonsparrow among many others. I kindof wish I had the balls to speak up. For now anyway, I'll listen. Seems I am about the only one they can talk to without being turned in. I'm a good listener! Mr. Janicello may have his own agenda :eyeroll: OK, he does. Let's hope he can spread the disinfectant and help others.
Dil

[morizo]

crosspost wwp (http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/scientology-aussteiger-mark-janicello-im-interview.89944/):


Das beste Zitat: «Ich war der Idiot, der für Scientology eingetreten ist. Mark Janicello hat keine Feinde, die gegen ihn protestieren. Scientology hat sie. Die Demonstranten trugen ‹Scientology kills›-T-Thirts, nicht ‹Mark Janicello ist ein Arschloch›-T-Shirts.»

best quote from the interview: I was the idiot standing up for Scientology. Mark Janicello has no enemies who protest against him. Scientology does have. The protesters wore "Scientology kills" t-shirts, they didn't wear "Mark Janicello is an asshole" t-shirts."
:thumbsup:

[Smilla]

He's bummed out about collapse of his career, and the damage to his reputation. He made some bad decisions and ended up where he is. Life isn't always simple or easy. So it goes. Business as usual. Ho hum.

[marjan]

I just had a wonderful conversation with Amy Scobee, author of "Scientology: Abuse at the top." She contacted me after seeing my Interview with Patrick Kees. She tried to post on my blog. However, she couldn't figure out how. I asked her if I may re-print her post using her name, and she said yes.

Amy is reacting to the following post on my blog: http://nakedinthespotlight.blogspot....-exchange.html (http://nakedinthespotlight.blogspot.com/2011/07/another-very-heated-exchange.html)



Amy Scobee:
I just tried to comment on your blog regarding "heated conversation" but it wouldn't work because I couldn't translate the instructions of how to post my reply. So here it is for you...

Mark - I fully agree with you. I have just read that section of your book. While I support people standing up to protest human rights violations and abuse, there is a time and place for it. It should not be generalized into hate and directed at the wrong target. From my former position within Scientology management over the Celebrity Centre network, I know how Scientology "uses" celebrities to gain popularity and acceptance. That's a key part of their "expansion strategy" to gain more members and therefore make more money. I feel so sorry for what you were put through -- on both sides of the Scientology feud.


I sent Amy an advance copy of my book. Here is what she had to say about it:


“Just finished reading the book, NAKED IN THE SPOTLIGHT by Mark Janicello. Awesome book! Incredible man. Should be officially released in the US soon. All I can say is WOW! I thoroughly enjoyed your book. You're such a good writer. I felt like I was standing next to you throughout your experiences.”


Thought I would share the opinion of a very vocal Scientolgy Critic about my book.