PDA

View Full Version : Robin Scott-great letter on Marty shared on Facebook



koki
6th September 2011, 09:07 AM
I just receive it on FB page.....Great,honest letter. Must say that I don't know Robin,but Mark Bunker shared it ..... Marty should read it.:biggrin:

Robin Scott (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000712929448)

THE MADNESS OF MARTY

There is a very fine line between religious faith and religious mania. By definition, religious faith is not subject to proof; it is something we believe, not something we can prove as a matter of fact. For example, I believe in Reincarnation; but I cannot prove it to you as an objective fact. There is nothing wrong with this, as long as we remember that our religious faiths are beliefs, and not proven matters of fact.

The problem sets in when people cross the line between faith and fact, when they assert articles of faith as matters of proven fact. We see an element of this in all religions, whenever we see fundamentalists expounding that their religion is the one true religion, that effectively they have a monopoly on truth, and that everyone else is wrong. It is this mindset of absolute conviction of one’s own rightness that leads to all the excesses and abuses that result from organised religion. Unfortunately, this appears to be a mechanism that operates within all religious groups.

When religious people cross over that line from faith to fact, then their religious beliefs become something else: they become a form of madness, a confusion between fiction and fact, a distortion of reality. In the days when I was a fully paid-up Scientologist, I used to believe that everything in Scientology was the gospel truth, and that all other viewpoints were wrong and misguided. For me, at that time, Scientology was the only true religion, and its founder, Ron Hubbard, was in effect infallible, almost a living god. We see people with similar misguided notions in all major religions, especially in both Christianity and Islam at this time, with fundamentalists on both sides whipping up violent hatred against each other.

For my family and myself, weaning ourselves away from the absolute certainties of Scientology has been a long and complex process, still incomplete, over thirty years now. Initially, back in 1985, I began to doubt the validity of the OT levels, especially in view of the many tragic casualties among so many supposed OTs. When Adrienne and I were involved in the early independent Scientology movement in the 1980s, we still believed that a reformed Scientology organization would continue to benefit mankind in clearing the planet. Unfortunately for us, Scientology management under David Miscavige – supported by the likes of Marty Rathbun – used the resources which we had helped to accumulate to harass and litigate us out of existence. So the early Independent Scientology movement was effectively throttled by their criminal activities against us.

In recent years, Marty Rathbun himself has joined the independent field, and become a leading practitioner. But regretably his influence once again has been entirely negative, for the following reasons:

Marty accepts no criticism of LRH, his actions, ethics, policies and technology – thereby removing any chance to reform the body of LRH’s work, which has produced such catastrophic results, in particular the policy of Disconnection and the auditing procedures of the Scientology OT levels.

Marty fails to give any credit to the recent progress against the Church to Anonymous, who have been directly responsible for the significant gains made against Miscavige in the last few years. In taking this arrogant and conceited view, Rathbun has alienated large numbers of important allies in the battle against the Church management.

Marty rails against David Miscavige as being the only problem with the Church. Covertly, this sends out the message that Marty is the one true successor to LRH. But the irony of this situation is that both Miscavige and Rathbun suffer from the same disease: they both believe that Scientology is the one true religion. What they share is the madness of religious mania. They are lost off in the vanity and insanity of Scientology’s bogus claims to be the only route to spiritual salvation and eternal life. Theirs is not a true religion; theirs is a destructive and egocentric view of the world, which causes incredible damage and suffering to all who come into contact with it.

The tragedy of this situation is that there was indeed much of value in Scientology – sophisticated counselling techniques, ethics procedures, administrative skills, evaluation formats and much more. All of these might have had tremendous value in the wider world, if they had been implemented in a humane and balanced way. If Scientology had been successfully reformed back in the 1980s, or even more recently, it might have gone on to become a respected and benign contribution to human thought. Instead, it has become a laughing stock – on South Park and many other shows – a currency debased and devalued beyond recognition.

For thirty years now, Adrienne and I have cherished a fond dream that Scientology would rise from the ashes and become a force for good in the world. But finally, like a well-loved automobile, there comes a point where one has to accept that it is damaged beyond further repair. It’s a wreck, a write-off. For us that point has now come. We no longer consider ourselves to be anything other than Ex-Scientologists. We no longer suffer from the delusion that Scientology is here to save the world!

And the man who is responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself.

What do Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun have in common? In the first place, they are all bullshitters and bullies, suffering from religious mania, narcissism, alcoholism, nicotine addiction, schizophrenic paranoia and dysfunctional dynamics. Beyond that, they are all people who believe that physical assaults, psychological abuse and financial crimes are justified in feeding their own ego-based ambitions. Like the Church of Scientology, no doubt Marty Rathbun and his coterie of groupies will struggle on a little longer; but they are all dead men walking, lost off in their own insanity and delusional vanity.

Luckily for us, with the loyal support of our family and friends, we look forward to a joyous and prosperous future, no longer shackled to the madness of religious bigots, cowards and traitors.

Robin & Adrienne Scott
4 Sept 2011

Robin and Adrienne Scott have been happily married for more than thirty years, and have raised three children, now adults themselves. They have a wide and supportive extended family, and numerous friends around the world. They are both fully occupied in high-powered jobs, and active in the fields of self-development, environmental issues, progressive politics and human rights, including the legalisation of cannabis. They have practiced yoga together as a family for more than twenty years. Robin studied religious philosophy at Oxford University, where he was awarded a BA(Hons) in 1970 and an MA in 1975; he comes from a long line of priests in the Church of England, going back to the 1700s. Adrienne trained as a primary school teacher, with a specialist certificate in religious education. Their actions both in the field of religious freedom and medicinal marijuana have frequently been described as heroic.



Big hello from Croatia-a small part of LRHs Bulgravia.:p

WildKat
6th September 2011, 03:12 PM
Awesome! Beautifully stated, couldn't agree more! Marty is doomed to the same fate as Miscavige, no wonder he hates him so much!

Smilla
6th September 2011, 03:50 PM
This Robin Scott right about many things. As I've said, in my opinion, the 'Church', Freezone and Independents, all add up to make the Greater Cult of Hubbard, and Marty is the self-appointed head of his own fundamentalist sub cult. By my definition he is a Fundamentalist Fanatic, because of his strict adherence to the Scientology Trinity:

1. Belief in the infallability or near- infallabilty of Hubbard.
2.The belief in a Scientology standard Tech.
3. KSW.

Marty has painted the Cof$ as a den of squirrels led by a violent maniac, offering his fundamentalist sub cult as the only real on-source fountain of orthodoxy. In essence, he's leading people from one trap to another. What he says about Miscavige and the Cof$ is true, but Marty is peddling the same rotten product, and telling the same lies about the bogus therapy that they both make their living from.

That, and his refusal to be honest about the criminality he saw in the Cof$, and his part in it, make him an
Unreformed Reformer.

Thrak
6th September 2011, 04:14 PM
Nice letter but I found this a bit of a stretch:


And the man who is responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself.

Tubbo will always be number one on that list.

Vittorio
6th September 2011, 05:00 PM
This is extremely well written and I agree with Robin Scott on MANY points. I disagree that Marty alone is responsible for the downfall of Scientology; many are responsible for that, starting at top and working it's way down.

I don't agree with the use of Marijuana for pleasureable purposes and have seen it cause great harm to MANY people, both mentally and eventually physically.

I have been writing for the past couple of weeks about the lack of reform in the Freezone, and have mostly put my argument towards Terril, though if Marty, Pierre, Mike and Micheal IFA were here, I would have socked it to them as well.

I am a disgruntled public and my experiences were, rather than get me in, find out whats wrong and fix it, FOR A LONG TIME I was told that I was wrong and had this that and the other. THANK GOODNESS for a close friend, also a Freezoner, took the time to sit and listen and explained that I was telling the truth.

So, thank you Robin Scott for speaking well and putting an argument that I would have liked to have made so well. I never had any problem with the tech, with giving or receiving auditing or using the basic stuff without getting results. On the few occasions things did go wrong it was because I gave data about Ron which did not align with Scientology history. I am not alone there. But there is definitely a hook in there which holds people in an unwavering love of Hubbard and who will believe anything that management does. Definitely a case of 'sacrifice to the cause', people are disposable if they don't toe the line.

Auditor's Toad
6th September 2011, 05:02 PM
Re: Robin Scott-great letter on Marty shared on Facebook

Nice letter but I found this a bit of a stretch:


"And the man who is responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself. "

" Tubbo will always be number one on that list. "


I keep seeing people post about this alleged the good in Scientology.
Here we have Marty responsible for destroying that. LOL !I guess spraying the squirrel buster clowns with a garden hose was a much bigger deal than I thought it was.

But, where is this alleged the good in Scientology
What is this alleged good in Scientology ?

There are posters here who make these vague unspecified claims of the alleged good in Scientology as if it really does exist.

OK, I'll bite : what exactly is the "good"?

Auditor's Toad
6th September 2011, 05:07 PM
<snip>
I don't agree with the use of Marijuana for pleasureable purposes ...
<snip>


I do. :happydance:

Try it.

It just might calm you down a tad :coolwink:

Thrak
6th September 2011, 05:19 PM
Re: Robin Scott-great letter on Marty shared on Facebook

Nice letter but I found this a bit of a stretch:


"And the man who is responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself. "

" Tubbo will always be number one on that list. "


I keep seeing people post about this alleged the good in Scientology.
Here we have Marty responsible for destroying that. LOL !I guess spraying the squirrel buster clowns with a garden hose was a much bigger deal than I thought it was.

But, where is this alleged the good in Scientology
What is this alleged good in Scientology ?

There are posters here who make these vague unspecified claims of the alleged good in Scientology as if it really does exist.

OK, I'll bite : what exactly is the "good"?

I'm not sure if you think I'm defending the "good in scientology". I'm not as I don't see any legitimate good in it. You seem to be making vague unspecified claims yourself. What do you think I mean?

Or to explain it for you I simply disagreed with Marty being "top of the list" as the "source" of scn's problems. There was only one true "source" for that.

Veda
6th September 2011, 05:20 PM
-snip-

There are posters here who make these vague unspecified claims of the alleged good in Scientology as if it really does exist.

-snip-



If there weren't some "good" in Scientology, it's unlikely that we'd be discussing it right now.

Scientology uses "goodness" and "good people." It wraps itself in "goodness" and "good people."

"Goodness" is the primary disguise used by Scientology.

If you can't see the disguise most often used by Scientology, then you become a Scientology PR person's dream come true. All the PR person need do is demonstrate ONE "good" thing in Scientology and you're toast.

Being blind to the "good" in Scientolgy is just plain bad strategy.

anonomog
6th September 2011, 05:24 PM
A fascinating read. Thanks Koki.

Hate to interrupt a good Marty bashing--

But how is Robin Scott's blame game any different to Marty's?

Perhaps the letter was meant for people who know him personally and not meant to be as snide as it reads, but it just came across as arrogant scieno speak to me, same as Marty.

This could have been a straight copy pasta from Marty's blog: "In the first place, they are all bullshitters and bullies, suffering from religious mania, narcissism, alcoholism, nicotine addiction, schizophrenic paranoia and dysfunctional dynamics."

Kind of surprised evil psych didn't sneak in there.


Glad he is out, truly I am, but I don't think the Scientology is totally out of him.

I cannot believe I am defending Marty. :duh:
I cannot believe I am defending Marty. :duh:
:ohmy:

Auditor's Toad
6th September 2011, 05:53 PM
If there weren't some "good" in Scientology, it's unlikely that we'd be discussing it right now.

Scientology uses "goodness" and "good people." It wraps itself in "goodness" and "good people."

"Goodness" is the primary disguise used by Scientology.

If you can't see the disguise most often used by Scientology, then you become a Scientology PR person's dream come true. All the PR person need do is demonstrate ONE "good" thing in Scientology and you're toast.

Being blind to the "good" in Scientolgy is just plain bad strategy.

There were - and are still - many good people in scientology. I'd go so far as to suggest their own goodness played a large part in getting to join it.

Of course, there are things like the aim & goals that make pretty reading.
But, are those aims & goals being pursued by the church organization?

I just contend that the overall aims & purposes of the church are to extract money out of members ( that I do not consider "good ").

And, that the very staff members who devote the best part ( if not all ) of their lives to the church working long ( sometimes 100 hours/week) for little pay ( way less than $!/hr ) little to no medical or dental care, no retirement, etc etc 0 that I do not consider "good".

Children, where allowed, not well carried for and regarded as adults is small bodies.
Sexual molestation of children in not reported to authorities but covered up ans that I do not see as "good".

Yeah, I know, somebody can say " I had a big win on latedah "!... and that is good!

But, say, " auditing wins " represent 5 % of what is going on, Does that 5 % really overshadow the other 95% of what is going on ?

Is the price of the good result really worth the overall price it cost?

So, in turn, I submit if scientology were good we'd pretty much all still be in there with almost all our lives and most every cent we could muster.... is that not true?

Or has it become more evil than good which pretty much forces good people to leave it?

Smilla
6th September 2011, 06:08 PM
Scientology is like a lovely piece of pink cotton candy with a poisoned needle in the middle. Such good as there is conceals the needle.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCGGzq_vKwWL8nyMkgLQI5nmUABgavj nHPdt0NVjo-zf_KSfu8

HelluvaHoax!
6th September 2011, 06:11 PM
I have to really admire the letter as an expression of free thought, even if I don't necessarily subscribe exactly with every weighted detail and shading. That's not important.

Essentially, it offers up some very simple yet powerful views on Scientology, Ron, Miscavige and Marty.

In particular the subject of FAITH.

Oddly, the past week I have been thinking about this and nearly started a thread on it. It all began about a week earlier when I was with a very delightful Asian woman that I am friends with. She donates a significant percentage of her time and modest earnings to charity and has one of the purest hearts of anyone that I have ever met.

In contrast to what you might think, she is of quite stunning appearance and young--so, it was fully unexpected when she invited me to come down to "cook and serve for the homeless" with her. There was nothing that I could possibly do to disagree with that.

During a conversation, I happened to ask her what she was doing the next day (Sunday) and she said she was going to church in the morning. We talked a bit about her faith and I kind of politely implied that I was not really the kind of person who can easily believe or have "faith" in something like that. Her reaction was priceless.....

She very humbly laughed and said in the sweetest way imaginable words to the effect that: "Oh no....I did not mean anything about you accepting my faith. I merely meant that it was something that I feel in my own life."

This was somewhat stunning to me. She had no slightest thought of any kind that her personal faith was to be promoted, sold, agreed or shared by anyone else in the world.

It was the purest expression of faith that I have ever seen.

And her acceptance of my own faith or lack of faith was absolute, even though she had no idea whatsoever that might be.

I probably could talk about this a long time, but if I had to say one thing only, it would be that perhaps real faith is an act of unqualified love that does not include sales, promotion, marketing, dissemination or saving others from themselves.

lotus
6th September 2011, 06:24 PM
Awesome! Beautifully stated!

To me it represents the reality - the situation .

Smilla
6th September 2011, 06:46 PM
Awesome! Beautifully stated!

To me it represents the reality - the situation .

I feel the same :)

TG1
6th September 2011, 06:46 PM
I could be wrong about this, but ... so many of the "old guard" (whether in, out, indie, fz, ex or whatever) who continue all these years later to rant and rave about each other seem IMHO to be simply rehashing their old rivalries and wounds and wars.

They remind me of old generals and politicos who, when writing their memoirs, take credit for the good and blame their career rivals for the bad.

Boring. Predictable. All of them.

TG1

Smilla
6th September 2011, 06:56 PM
I could be wrong about this, but ... so many of the "old guard" (whether in, out, indie, fz, ex or whatever) who continue all these years later to rant and rave about each other seem IMHO to be simply rehashing their old rivalries and wounds and wars.

They remind me of old generals and politicos who, when writing their memoirs, take credit for the good and blame their career rivals for the bad.

Boring. Predictable. All of them.

TG1

That's Standard Tech, right there.

degraded being
6th September 2011, 10:56 PM
Re: Robin Scott-great letter on Marty shared on Facebook

Nice letter but I found this a bit of a stretch:


"And the man who is responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself. "

" Tubbo will always be number one on that list. "


I keep seeing people post about this alleged the good in Scientology.
Here we have Marty responsible for destroying that. LOL !I guess spraying the squirrel buster clowns with a garden hose was a much bigger deal than I thought it was.

But, where is this alleged the good in Scientology
What is this alleged good in Scientology ?

There are posters here who make these vague unspecified claims of the alleged good in Scientology as if it really does exist.

OK, I'll bite : what exactly is the "good"?

Yeah, the bit about Marty destroying the good in Scientology is off.
There may have been good there (especially since many others than fatty came up with the "tech"...and I don't mean histrical precedents, I mean people like McMasters etc. Anyway Fatty was in there right from the beginning turning good to bad and working out ways to ensure that others would use scientlogy to achieve the bad that fatty wanted to achive. Marty is Marty, but Marty-as-a-Scientologist, is Marty made-by-fatty.


EDIT: Apart from that little bit I agree with what others say about what a great letter it was.

AnonKat
6th September 2011, 11:09 PM
Robin Scott still remembers how to Nullify

DartSmohen
6th September 2011, 11:34 PM
There is one aspect that I find interesting; Whilst Marty worked with Hubbard and carried out his "command intention", did Marty actually know the real Hubbard ? :unsure:

Dart

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
6th September 2011, 11:43 PM
I could be wrong about this, but ... so many of the "old guard" (whether in, out, indie, fz, ex or whatever) who continue all these years later to rant and rave about each other seem IMHO to be simply rehashing their old rivalries and wounds and wars.

They remind me of old generals and politicos who, when writing their memoirs, take credit for the good and blame their career rivals for the bad.

Boring. Predictable. All of them.

TG1I don't know about generals and politicos, to me it's more like the really drunk old guy at the end of the bar at the VFW, reliving the glory days of his youth by telling greatly embellished war stories, such as how peeling potatoes on a ship turned into fighting Nazi SS Soldiers in hand and to hand combat when his ammo ran out.

ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
6th September 2011, 11:45 PM
There is one aspect that I find interesting; Whilst Marty worked with Hubbard and carried out his "command intention", did Marty actually know the real Hubbard ? :unsure:

Dart

lol at Marty knowing Hubbard, he never even caught a glimpse of Hubbard, the closest Marty ever got to Hubbard was channeling him on Target 2 from a New Orleans jail cell in a drunken stupor

Smilla
7th September 2011, 12:24 AM
Scientologist from all branches of the Cult of Hubbard quarrel and squabble constantly because they've learned from Scientology that if anyone disagrees with them in even the smallest way, it's an emergency. This causes them to have a mini nervous breakdown called an ARC Break. They call your disagreement 'counter intention', which works on a Scientologist, the way Kryptonite works on Superman.

http://bookshelvesofdoom.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/25/kryptonite2.jpg

Auditor's Toad
7th September 2011, 12:31 AM
Scientologist from all branches of the Cult of Hubbard quarrel and squabble constantly because they've learned from Scientology that if anyone disagrees with them in even the smallest way, it's an emergency. This causes them to have a mini nervous breakdown called an ARC Break. They call your disagreement 'counter intention', which works on a Scientologist, the way Kryptonite works on Superman.



And they ran around hyperventilating all the while.......heck, around here some still can almost be heard hyperventolating between posts.

:lol:

Terril park
7th September 2011, 02:39 AM
I have to really admire the letter as an expression of free thought, even if I don't necessarily subscribe exactly with every weighted detail and shading. That's not important.

Essentially, it offers up some very simple yet powerful views on Scientology, Ron, Miscavige and Marty.

In particular the subject of FAITH.

Oddly, the past week I have been thinking about this and nearly started a thread on it. It all began about a week earlier when I was with a very delightful Asian woman that I am friends with. She donates a significant percentage of her time and modest earnings to charity and has one of the purest hearts of anyone that I have ever met.

In contrast to what you might think, she is of quite stunning appearance and young--so, it was fully unexpected when she invited me to come down to "cook and serve for the homeless" with her. There was nothing that I could possibly do to disagree with that.

During a conversation, I happened to ask her what she was doing the next day (Sunday) and she said she was going to church in the morning. We talked a bit about her faith and I kind of politely implied that I was not really the kind of person who can easily believe or have "faith" in something like that. Her reaction was priceless.....

She very humbly laughed and said in the sweetest way imaginable words to the effect that: "Oh no....I did not mean anything about you accepting my faith. I merely meant that it was something that I feel in my own life."

This was somewhat stunning to me. She had no slightest thought of any kind that her personal faith was to be promoted, sold, agreed or shared by anyone else in the world.

It was the purest expression of faith that I have ever seen.

And her acceptance of my own faith or lack of faith was absolute, even though she had no idea whatsoever that might be.

I probably could talk about this a long time, but if I had to say one thing only, it would be that perhaps real faith is an act of unqualified love that does not include sales, promotion, marketing, dissemination or saving others from themselves.

So cool!

Mark A. Baker
7th September 2011, 03:33 AM
I could be wrong about this, but ... so many of the "old guard" (whether in, out, indie, fz, ex or whatever) who continue all these years later to rant and rave about each other seem IMHO to be simply rehashing their old rivalries and wounds and wars.

They remind me of old generals and politicos who, when writing their memoirs, take credit for the good and blame their career rivals for the bad.

Boring. Predictable. All of them.

TG1

Oddly enough you seem to have overlooked the role played by those ex's who claim to have 'left it all behind' in promoting dissension, disorder, firefights, and personal vendettas among the larger community of former members of the church.

That must have been an unintended oversight on your part.


Mark A. Baker :angel:

Jachs
7th September 2011, 03:51 AM
Id expect Mark Rathbun to say most definitely he knows/knew the "real" Hubbard.

I doubt Mark could associate/link a negative to Hubbard, he might PR with "the man" wasn't perfect..

I told you I was trouble
7th September 2011, 03:57 AM
Oddly enough you seem to have overlooked the role of those ex's who claim to have 'left it all behind' in promoting dissension, disorder, firefights, and personal vendettas among the larger community of former members of the church.

That must have been an unintended oversight on your part.


Mark A. Baker :angel:






:giggle:

Bastards.


:smoochy:

koki
7th September 2011, 08:46 AM
I could be wrong about this, but ... so many of the "old guard" (whether in, out, indie, fz, ex or whatever) who continue all these years later to rant and rave about each other seem IMHO to be simply rehashing their old rivalries and wounds and wars.

They remind me of old generals and politicos who, when writing their memoirs, take credit for the good and blame their career rivals for the bad.

Boring. Predictable. All of them.

TG1

It is just one of many letters ,he put on his FB page. When one reads all of them then it is even better.
This one is after he was invited in FB group "Independent scios" or something like that. Of course there is Martys place-so, when he start to ask Marty some questions he find out next morning that all of THEM-unfriend him-and he realise that disconnection policy still works....
Anyway,I put this one cause M.B. shared it to all......If letter was just for FB friends,I would not put it here....
I like it. Also I am glad that many people here,like it also....
and I dont have problem if he smoke MaryJane. In Europe,we look little bit easy on that.... It is CURE.

tnx to all.
Big hello from Croatia-small part of LRHs Bulgravia.:)

Veda
7th September 2011, 09:11 AM
It is just one of many letters ,he put on his FB page. When one reads all of them then it is even better.
This one is after he was invited in FB group "Independent scios" or something like that. Of course there is Martys place-so, when he start to ask Marty some questions he find out next morning that all of THEM-unfriend him-and he realise that disconnection policy still works....
Anyway,I put this one cause M.B. shared it to all......If letter was just for FB friends,I would not put it here....
I like it. Also I am glad that many people here,like it also....
and I dont have problem if he smoke MaryJane. In Europe,we look little bit easy on that.... It is CURE.

tnx to all.
Big hello from Croatia-small part of LRHs Bulgravia.:)

Thanks for the clarification. :)

Peter Soderqvist
7th September 2011, 09:24 AM
If there weren't some "good" in Scientology, it's unlikely that we'd be discussing it right now.

Scientology uses "goodness" and "good people." It wraps itself in "goodness" and "good people."

"Goodness" is the primary disguise used by Scientology.

If you can't see the disguise most often used by Scientology, then you become a Scientology PR person's dream come true. All the PR person need do is demonstrate ONE "good" thing in Scientology and you're toast.

Being blind to the "good" in Scientolgy is just plain bad strategy.

Soderqvist1: I think you miss the point!
Robin Scott is talking about the “good part of tech”!



Marty accepts no criticism of LRH, his actions, ethics, policies and technology – thereby removing any chance to reform the body of LRH’ s work, which has produced such catastrophic results, in particular the policy of Disconnection and the auditing procedures of the Scientology OT levels.

The tragedy of this situation is that there was indeed much of value in Scientology – sophisticated counselling techniques, ethics procedures, administrative skills, evaluation formats and much more. All of these might have had tremendous value in the wider world, if they had been implemented in a humane and balanced way. If Scientology had been successfully reformed back in the 1980s, or even more recently, it might have gone on to become a respected and benign contribution to human thought. Instead, it has become a laughing stock – on South Park and many other shows – a currency debased and devalued beyond recognition.


Soderqvist1: there is no good part!
TR 0, and bull bating did me disconnected with the life here and now back in the eighties, because it is not natural to have your eyes fixated at some point, it neutralized my mind so I stopped to reacted to stimulus from the environment, and bull bating made it even worse, but that seems to be the hidden aim with it. Objectives made me fell like I am floating and empty of case, but it was really empty of emotions. And repetitive auditing questions wore down my mind. So I attested to the State of Clear, but I didn’t react to the fact that I couldn’t pay my bills in the end of the month, but I thought that at the time that my havigness was great, but in fact I was disconnected from reality, and that is the purpose with Scientology to depart the victim from his money, and turn him into a worker drone for the church, yet I didn’t work much for the church, but they succeed to depart me form my money anyway.

This part of the so called good part of the tech lived on deep down in me, and that was the reason I as a hard core critics could be influenced by Marty Rathbun, and showed some agreement with Scientology as you can remember when you saw me the first time here, but through the time I came to the conclusion that this part of the mind-virus has to go if I wan to fully recover, and as far to my knowledge it has done so. But I have seen the mind fuck over at Isene Forum that some have posted disgusting gay porn, and other Scientologists demonstrates their confronting abilities by being there comfortable and confront it. But I instead react to it, and want to erase these messages, but I can’t because I am not a moderator there, so I can only do what is natural for me to do when I don’t like something I simply leave that particular thread, just as I did with Scientology.

secretiveoldfag
7th September 2011, 09:42 AM
The tragedy of this situation is that there was indeed much of value in Scientology – sophisticated counselling techniques, ethics procedures, administrative skills, evaluation formats and much more. All of these might have had tremendous value in the wider world, if they had been implemented in a humane and balanced way. If Scientology had been successfully reformed back in the 1980s, or even more recently, it might have gone on to become a respected and benign contribution to human thought. Instead, it has become a laughing stock – on South Park and many other shows – a currency debased and devalued beyond recognition.

The sophisticated counselling techniques are a direct and vicious and deliberate form of permanent brain-washing which permit interference at a sub-conscious level.

Scientology's ethics procedures have much in common with those found valuable by totalitarian regimes.

Its evaluation formats likewise.

Its administrative skills are honed on practicing them 100 hours a week. No commercial or benevolent organisation existing 'in the wider world' would survive a month on the level of administrative efficiency achieved in real terms in Scientology.

In other words as I know has been said already in this thread, there is nothing of real value in Scientology. Except the people who believe there is something of value in Scientology and are blind to what is being done to them.

Veda
7th September 2011, 10:17 AM
Soderqvist1:

-snip-

Soderqvist1: there is no good part!

-snip-



Sure there is.

It's essential to accurately describe all of Scientology's component parts. It's mostly the "good" in Scientology that is the carrier, at least initially, for the mind virus. If you can't see the "good" - which sometimes is genuinely, in and of itself, good - then you can't adequately warn people about the mind virus.

Vittorio
7th September 2011, 11:58 AM
It is just one of many letters ,he put on his FB page. When one reads all of them then it is even better.
This one is after he was invited in FB group "Independent scios" or something like that. Of course there is Martys place-so, when he start to ask Marty some questions he find out next morning that all of THEM-unfriend him-and he realise that disconnection policy still works....
Anyway,I put this one cause M.B. shared it to all......If letter was just for FB friends,I would not put it here....
I like it. Also I am glad that many people here,like it also....
and I dont have problem if he smoke MaryJane. In Europe,we look little bit easy on that.... It is CURE.

tnx to all.
Big hello from Croatia-small part of LRHs Bulgravia.:)

Marty has disconnected a fair few people.

Krautfag
7th September 2011, 12:15 PM
Soderqvist1: I think you miss the point!
Robin Scott is talking about the “good part of tech”!



Soderqvist1: there is no good part!
TR 0, and bull bating did me disconnected with the life here and now back in the eighties, because it is not natural to have your eyes fixated at some point, it neutralized my mind so I stopped to reacted to stimulus from the environment, and bull bating made it even worse, but that seems to be the hidden aim with it. Objectives made me fell like I am floating and empty of case, but it was really empty of emotions. And repetitive auditing questions wore down my mind. So I attested to the State of Clear, but I didn’t react to the fact that I couldn’t pay my bills in the end of the month, but I thought that at the time that my havigness was great, but in fact I was disconnected from reality, and that is the purpose with Scientology to depart the victim from his money, and turn him into a worker drone for the church, yet I didn’t work much for the church, but they succeed to depart me form my money anyway.

This part of the so called good part of the tech lived on deep down in me, and that was the reason I as a hard core critics could be influenced by Marty Rathbun, and showed some agreement with Scientology as you can remember when you saw me the first time here, but through the time I came to the conclusion that this part of the mind-virus has to go if I wan to fully recover, and as far to my knowledge it has done so. But I have seen the mind fuck over at Isene Forum that some have posted disgusting gay porn, and other Scientologists demonstrates their confronting abilities by being there comfortable and confront it. But I instead react to it, and want to erase these messages, but I can’t because I am not a moderator there, so I can only do what is natural for me to do when I don’t like something I simply leave that particular thread, just as I did with Scientology.

Exactly what I am telling people again and again. TR 0 and and especially bullbaiting are NOT good and helpful. If you are conditioned not to react and just swallow the insult when somebody yells and throws insults at you, that's not how you make a more controlled mind, it is how you make obedient slaves who will accept any shit they are given by supieriors! If someone insults you and gets in your face, the human thing is...you become angry and rightly so.

Dulloldfart
7th September 2011, 02:07 PM
If someone insults you and gets in your face, the human thing is...you become angry and rightly so.

Do you honestly think that would be a good counselling technique, to get angry at your client in a session because he/she pushed one of your buttons?

Paul

Infinite
7th September 2011, 02:27 PM
Do you honestly think that would be a good counselling technique, to get angry at your client in a session because he/she pushed one of your buttons?

Paul

Its not counselling though, its religion, remember?

Smilla
7th September 2011, 03:06 PM
Oddly enough you seem to have overlooked the role played by those ex's who claim to have 'left it all behind' in promoting dissension, disorder, firefights, and personal vendettas among the larger community of former members of the church.

That must have been an unintended oversight on your part.


Mark A. Baker :angel:

Congratulation on adding 'ex's who claim to have 'left it all behind' to your bag of stock responses for people you are trying to 'handle' :angel:

Would you like to state who these 'promoters of dissension, disorder, firefights, and personal vendettas' are?

Not including Freezoners, of course :wink2:

Smilla
7th September 2011, 03:11 PM
Its not counselling though, its religion, remember?

If you criticise it as a religion, they say it's a therapy. If you criticise it as a therapy, they say it's a religion.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/6/7/saupload_shell_game.jpg

Mick Wenlock
7th September 2011, 03:24 PM
Exactly what I am telling people again and again. TR 0 and and especially bullbaiting are NOT good and helpful. If you are conditioned not to react and just swallow the insult when somebody yells and throws insults at you, that's not how you make a more controlled mind, it is how you make obedient slaves who will accept any shit they are given by supieriors! If someone insults you and gets in your face, the human thing is...you become angry and rightly so.

Can't believe I am about to say this - there are TWO separate things at issue here

1) Being an auditor - (or any counsellor) requires the ability or skill to not react to what the patient/pre clear is telling you. I think (now) that Scientology is utter bs but despite that - if one is going to counsel people then one must avoid, absolutely, the appearance of JUDGING.

2) Being just a person - and here is, IMHO, one of the many false steps Hubbard made. Because, as you point out, NOT reacting in normal conversation is insane.

TG1
7th September 2011, 05:25 PM
:derailalert:

Further to this TRs subtopic ... central to the various versions of "emotional intelligence," (called "EQ," a term meant to parallel "IQ"), which is having a good run among organizational development, corporate and pop psychology circles, is this definition:

"Emotional intelligence (EI) is an ability, skill or ... self-perceived ability to identify, assess, and control the emotions of oneself, of others, and of groups."

In life, or so goes the EQ theory, EQ is demonstrated by a person's ability to, e.g., negotiate their exit from arguments no one could win OR listen attentively and with respect to others who are voicing opinions, positions or values opposed to their own OR simply choose not to make choices that will lead to fewer options and even worse choices. Etc.

EQ has big supporters, although there's much debate about whether EQ is "intelligence" or part of "personality" or even reliably measurable or even predictive of anything else.

My main point is that society indeed finds value in human beings not impetuously expressing without filters their own self- or other-destructive emotions.

Although impetuousness and exuberance can be wonderfully enjoyable, some impetuousness and exuberance in some circumstances lead to bad outcomes.

tl;dr emotional intelligence = ability to delay gratification.

TG1

Auditor's Toad
7th September 2011, 05:45 PM
Can't believe I am about to say this - there are TWO separate things at issue here

1) Being an auditor - (or any counsellor) requires the ability or skill to not react to what the patient/pre clear is telling you. I think (now) that Scientology is utter bs but despite that - if one is going to counsel people then one must avoid, absolutely, the appearance of JUDGING.

2) Being just a person - and here is, IMHO, one of the many false steps Hubbard made. Because, as you point out, NOT reacting in normal conversation is insane.

Exactly ! I've long believed that using the "tech" I can find a policy to support awarding someone "KhaKhan" for a deed they did - or for the exact same deed by that very same person I can also find policy to show they deserve to be declared "SP".
( And, either way, the rank and file will buy it as " On Source ".)

And, that, my friends, is the way scn "works"!

Markus
7th September 2011, 06:22 PM
This Robin Scott right about many things. As I've said, in my opinion, the 'Church', Freezone and Independents, all add up to make the Greater Cult of Hubbard, and Marty is the self-appointed head of his own fundamentalist sub cult. By my definition he is a Fundamentalist Fanatic, because of his strict adherence to the Scientology Trinity:

1. Belief in the infallability or near- infallabilty of Hubbard.
2.The belief in a Scientology standard Tech.
3. KSW.

Marty has painted the Cof$ as a den of squirrels led by a violent maniac, offering his fundamentalist sub cult as the only real on-source fountain of orthodoxy. In essence, he's leading people from one trap to another. What he says about Miscavige and the Cof$ is true, but Marty is peddling the same rotten product, and telling the same lies about the bogus therapy that they both make their living from.

That, and his refusal to be honest about the criminality he saw in the Cof$, and his part in it, make him an
Unreformed Reformer.


:yes::thumbsup:

Lohan2008
7th September 2011, 10:23 PM
responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself.

:clap:

Auditor's Toad
7th September 2011, 10:39 PM
responsible for destroying the good in Scientology: Marty Rathbun. Even more than David Miscavige and even Ron Hubbard himself, Rathbun has effectively given the kiss of death to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology, first by his criminal harassment of the independent Scientologists over the last thirty years, and now by his self-promoting antics as a so-called independent himself.

:clap:

Marty had a big hand in brashly and overtly spreading far and wide the evil.