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La La Lou Lou
30th November 2011, 03:44 PM
Hello chaps I saw this today thought someone might like to sign this. It's a petition to stop UK orgs from not paying local taxes as some like Birmingham do.

Just like the White House one, but British. Hope it's not a duplicate.

Looks like it could do with some help.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/12501


Happy signing,
LLLL

La La Lou Lou
30th November 2011, 03:57 PM
It does need 100000 signitures and has a very long way to go, On the plus side though it's a dream to sign compared to the White house one, really it's simple and your name is not on the site to be viewed. You are just a number.

La La Lou Lou
30th November 2011, 10:31 PM
BUMP!!

GoNuclear
1st December 2011, 01:36 AM
Taxing authorities are always worse than the Cof$. Being a tattle tale is never good in the long run. The way taxes are structured in the so-called "free" world, in order to pass muster with various Constitutions, are written in such fashion as that they legitimately have a very narrow application, whereas they are simply not enforced as written because very few actually read. If taxing authorities were forced to make full plain language disclosures as to how liability for whatever tax they are collecting is incurred, they wouldn't collect much in the way of taxes, which would be a good thing.

Bottom line ... I cringe anytime I hear about people clamoring to sick some tax body on the Cof$ or anyone else for that matter. Here in the US, the income tax was ushered in with the slogan "Soak the rich!" which meant it was working class folk attempting to get the rich to pay their "fair share." But they should have been a bit more aware, seeing that it was the very rich behind the tax in the first place. In years to come, a funny thing happened to the income tax ... it was turned around, as if by some act of political jujitsu, on the very same people that were clamoring for it in the first place. Don't think for one minute that going after the Cof$ via some tax authority won't get a similar result. Governments everywhere are just looking for an excuse, some way, of taxing churches.

Pete

La La Lou Lou
1st December 2011, 03:47 PM
Pete, we're talking local taxes here, paying their fair share towards the police, fire service and bin collection. They have humongous idle orgs sitting empty when there are about a million homeless citizens. Very few Brits have a problem with paying taxes. Local councils are responsible for housing and they could use the money to give better service to their people.

Also since when is scientology a church? Genuine charitable organisations can be made exempt but scn failed the test, it should pay it's way, it benefits from cleaned roads, police, fire, bins, schools for its staff's kids, and all the other benefits of being in the community. Some councils collect the taxes and some don't the government wants them all to and so do I.

I know the UK is not America, we have very different values and opinions about things like churches and taxes. I won't bother discussing those things we'd get nowhere. But just as I pay towards living in this community so should the cult. Charitable organisations that actually make a difference in the UK or abroad are exempt from local taxes and I can agree with that. Scn though takes from everyone and gives nothing back. It should be made to pay!

GoNuclear
1st December 2011, 04:14 PM
Pete, we're talking local taxes here, paying their fair share towards the police, fire service and bin collection. They have humongous idle orgs sitting empty when there are about a million homeless citizens. Very few Brits have a problem with paying taxes. Local councils are responsible for housing and they could use the money to give better service to their people.

Also since when is scientology a church? Genuine charitable organisations can be made exempt but scn failed the test, it should pay it's way, it benefits from cleaned roads, police, fire, bins, schools for its staff's kids, and all the other benefits of being in the community. Some councils collect the taxes and some don't the government wants them all to and so do I.

I know the UK is not America, we have very different values and opinions about things like churches and taxes. I won't bother discussing those things we'd get nowhere. But just as I pay towards living in this community so should the cult. Charitable organisations that actually make a difference in the UK or abroad are exempt from local taxes and I can agree with that. Scn though takes from everyone and gives nothing back. It should be made to pay!

There are plenty of folk in Oz, Canada, and the UK who are onboard with the freeman movement and share the same values with those of us in the US that realize that our govt. has been hijacked, has been for quite some time, and, it is pretty much the same gang of criminals that have hijacked govt. entities around the planet. They are OK with the Cof$ because they are birds of a feather, and, quite likely they have co-opted the Cof$ as an intel resource ... for folder content, brainwashing experiments, and as a pool of intel operators motivated by religious zeal. This is the Wollersheim hypothesis, I have no direct proof ... but it makes sense to me in that Cof$ would have gotten on their radar bigtime with operation Snow White here in the US.

Anon/the old guard critics/exes/the web have put a hurting on the Cof$ to the point where it may find itself of no use to the gang of criminals that run govt. entities, at which point another Jonestown event may be staged via Cof$ for the purpose of running an attack on religious freedom planet wide. There is always the tax angle tho ... if they use the tax angle to kill the Cof$, regardless of how deserving they may be of such a killing, that same tool, now made ready and sharp, will be used on other churches. This is a pattern ... always go after the least popular groups first to aclimate the public.

Pete

La La Lou Lou
1st December 2011, 04:34 PM
Pete, anarchy's fine, there's something in all that freeman stuff, but in the end of the day I benefit from the services I get from my community, so paying for them makes sense. The same goes for the cults of this world, let them pay their way, if they really are there to give to he community then make them exempt. Really that's as simple as it is.

I can see no evidence of any anti religious conspiracy in the UK, Brits just don't really care about religions too much. Religions don't care about the people much either. But Brits do care about their councils, because that's community. Churches are almost empty of all but the last few old people, or a few born again over zealous socially inept young ones. Sorry if you don't want it that way, but that's how it is.

To use it's own terminology it's out exchange.

La La Lou Lou
1st December 2011, 06:11 PM
Just found this, nothing to with the thread, but you might like it....

http://thevelvetonion.com/2011/08/15/scientology-the-truth/

GoNuclear
1st December 2011, 11:54 PM
L4,


Pete, anarchy's fine, there's something in all that freeman stuff, but in the end of the day I benefit from the services I get from my community, so paying for them makes sense. The same goes for the cults of this world, let them pay their way, if they really are there to give to he community then make them exempt. Really that's as simple as it is.

I can see no evidence of any anti religious conspiracy in the UK, Brits just don't really care about religions too much. Religions don't care about the people much either. But Brits do care about their councils, because that's community. Churches are almost empty of all but the last few old people, or a few born again over zealous socially inept young ones. Sorry if you don't want it that way, but that's how it is.

To use it's own terminology it's out exchange.

Freedom and anarchy are two different things. I am not an anarchist. There is most certainly a legitmate place for govt. That function is spelled out in Romans chapter 13, which those that favor unlimited govt. like to preach as requiring unlimited submission to govt. The way I read that chapter, it states, in so many words, that the rightful place of govt, its God ordained function, is to ride shotgun on the criminal element that will always be with us. It boils down to protection of rights and property. There are other functions that go along with that, such as a bureau of standards, such that there are agreed upon weights and measures ... that and a handful of other similar functions for the general good, such as keeping an eye on the weather as well as monitoring solar weather, i.e., sunspots, that affect communications, etc.

Nowhere in Romans 13 does it say that the rightful place of govt. is to be everybody's nanny, and yet it has developed these functions over the years, not just in the UK, but also Canada, Oz, and the US, etc. The Nanny functions are NOT ordained of God. For these functions, govt. requires
the consent of the governed. Considering the nature of man, govt. at all levels, run by fallen, imperfect men and women, is subject to a form of corruption known as "function creep" which is to say it is simply the natural order of things on this planet for govt. to expand. Govt. tends to expand at the expense not only of money but also that of personal liberty. The mechanism or at least one of the major mechanisms for this expansion is to obtain the consent of the governed COVERTLY. There is an old saying/folk belief that once you INVITE a vampire into your home, you are powerless over it ... no manner of garlic wreaths, prayers, or crosses will work. The govt. is a master at getting us to invite it in, via such things as driver's licenses, car registration, birth registration, Social Security Numbers and the equivalent thereof in Canada, and I presume Oz and the UK as well, etc.

If people want various social services from the govt., fine. I don't. All I ask is that just like there are health warnings on cigarette packs here in the US, the govt. should be made to give a full disclosure anytime it offers one of these deals that "invite the vampire in" ... such as an SSN or its equivalent elsewhere, driver's licenses, birth registration, vehicle registration, etc. Such disclosure should be in plain language, disclosing all rights waived, powers of attorney signed over, benefits guaranteed, and all liabilities incurred, including tax liabilities. If govt. gave a full dlsclosure as to all of these things I would have no beef whatsoever, since they are all voluntary and I would simply choose not to volunteer.

One last point, back to the original topic, which was getting the govt. to go after the Cof$ for some tax beef ... to reiterate, I believe that any govt. anywhere, even the most benign, will tend to aquire more power as time goes on, and it uses such things as, say, going after a group like the Cof$, as an excuse. I believe in the long run, any additional power aquired by govt. in going after Cof$ will hurt the public worse than the Cof$ will, which is pretty much doomed at this point anyways. Again ... it is the MECHANISM for the aquisition of power by govt. by COVERTLY gaining the consent of the governed that bears close watching. Check out these videos, they spell it out plainly.

Pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-HnExGn69c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohiyO-IcqG8

La La Lou Lou
2nd December 2011, 12:31 AM
The Atlantic is a very wide expanse.

I think it's best that way.

I am perfectly happy to part with money so that I don't have to slip up on human crap on the streets, educate my kids myself and I can cross roads because someone has built a bridge.

You are not.

nessa76
2nd December 2011, 01:34 AM
I've just signed it now :thumbsup:

GoNuclear
2nd December 2011, 06:38 AM
The Atlantic is a very wide expanse.

I think it's best that way.

I am perfectly happy to part with money so that I don't have to slip up on human crap on the streets, educate my kids myself and I can cross roads because someone has built a bridge.

You are not.

Catatonic brainfart at work. This is what happens when I broach the subject ... catatonic brainfart. Again, the point is not weather or not govt. performs legitimate public services. The point is government dishonesty and usurpation of power. Maintaining roads, running a fire department, picking up trash, etc ... all legitimate functions of LOCAL government ... are no excuse for government dishonesty or usurpation of power. My point was/is the MECHANISM for garnering power/function creep is fundamentally dishonest, and full disclosure is in order. Of course, you may be one of those who think that the virtual complete disarming of the population over in the UK and spy cams all over London is a legitimate function of government. As I see it, that is straight out of a George Orwell novel.

Pete

La La Lou Lou
2nd December 2011, 05:16 PM
Local Governmental taxes are the point here.

National Government is dishonest, of course it is, always has been. They're only there to feather their nests and in the same time spend a lot of our money in Brussels. And yes you're right local government or council in English, have cameras everywhere. I never said that the system is perfect but that the cult should be paying it's local taxes.

There is no disarming in the UK there never was any arming. Well not legally, it's very recently that the police have been armed and the criminal classes have armed themselves to join in with the trend. The criminals that scare me the most though are the ones in the city of London making millions in bonuses and protected by the law.

1984, yes it's a bit like that in some respects. Actually far more like the film Brazil.

La La Lou Lou
2nd December 2011, 06:16 PM
UK and USA have different words for things, Pete I don't think we disagree as much as you think. I am quoting here from the petition that you obviously miss understand, or have not bothered to see, we have been talking at cross purposes...


Stop Scientology Tax Breaks

Responsible department: Department for Communities and Local Government

The High Court says "Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious". Eric Pickles, DCLG Secretary of State, says it should not receive tax relief on business rates. Yet local councils continue to give Scientology hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money each year, in rates relief. We ask the Government to amend the Local Government Finance Act to prevent large organisations from qualifying for rates relief unless they are UK registered charities, approved by the Charity Commissioners.

La La Lou Lou
2nd December 2011, 08:59 PM
This gives more info on what sort of tax breaks London Org gets.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11554738

I have heard a rumour that Birmingham now is having to pay what it should.

http://brumanon.co.uk/

There is also a scientology lead epetition asking for equal tax breaks throughout the UK. NB 2 people have signed the petition! it's useful as it gives stats.

In that the petioner says....The Church of Scientology enjoys non-domestic rates relief in the City of London (80% mandatory rates relief saving them 270K per year), Westminster (80% mandatory rates relief) and Sunderland (100% mandatory plus discretionary rates relief) but has been refused it in Camden, Manchester and Mid-Sussex where they have their headquarters. If all these local authorities allowed the Church to hold their religious ceremonies without financial penalty then they would save more than 500K a year and bring about a spiritual revival of the community. This petition is to demand from the government that Scientologists be allowed to practice their faith without the imposition of financial penalty.

GoNuclear
2nd December 2011, 10:26 PM
Local Governmental taxes are the point here.

National Government is dishonest, of course it is, always has been. They're only there to feather their nests and in the same time spend a lot of our money in Brussels. And yes you're right local government or council in English, have cameras everywhere. I never said that the system is perfect but that the cult should be paying it's local taxes.

There is no disarming in the UK there never was any arming. Well not legally, it's very recently that the police have been armed and the criminal classes have armed themselves to join in with the trend. The criminals that scare me the most though are the ones in the city of London making millions in bonuses and protected by the law.

1984, yes it's a bit like that in some respects. Actually far more like the film Brazil.

And now we are making progress. Yes, there WAS a time in the UK way back when when there were almost no restrictions on firearm ownership, but that was a LONG time ago. Regarding local taxes ... it's the same with taxes on ANY level ... a law is written one way, but, since "everybody knows" because nobody reads, it gets enforced another way. The issue is always right vs. privilege. Your rights are inherent, privileges are granted by government. Privileges are ALWAYS taxable, rights are generally the subject of tax only in the most dire of emergencies, such as war.

Tax laws are always written in to be deliberately confusing. If legal definitions are applied, they are very very narrow in application. If you apply dictionary definitions to what are actually specifically defined legal terms, you wind up with broad application which runs afoul of the Constitution and/or various governmental charters. Case in point ... sales tax. I take it you have them over in the UK. "Everybody knows" over here that you have to pay sales tax on whatever items the govt. says you have to, and the tax is on the item sold. No, not the way the law is written. The sales tax is a tax on privilege, not items. What privilege? The privilege of out of state corporate entities doing retail business in the "State of ..." That means that local operations are not the subject of the sales tax. But, the sales tax laws both allow and encourage businesses that do retail business to pass the tax on to the consumer as a separate item, and now "everybody knows" because nobody reads, and a local business that wants to follow the tax law AS WRITTEN will have difficulty with their wholesalers without a reseller's permit.

Here, in Missouri, I confronted some politicians who wanted to raise sales taxes to fund this or that pet project of theirs. All the little pet projects sound great, before they turn into absolute shit a few years down the road. Not a single politician pushing for a sales tax increase could even tell me what the sales tax was really on, and, when I explained it, they really didn't care that the entire process was based mainly on ignorance and fear. Instead, they went into catatonic brainfart, accused me of wanting to toss little old ladies out on the street, and touted how great their little tax and spend boondoggle was going to be. All I wanted was for them to understand the tax and for everyone else who may be the subject of the sales tax laws (retaliers) to be given a full disclosure, such that those who are not the legitimate subject of the tax to be not have the tax slapped on them.

Back to the UK and the Cof$ ... the type of tax scam that govt. here in Missouri runs regarding the sales tax IS PRETTY MUCH UNIVERSAL and it is run on virtually all taxes and licenses everywhere in the "free" world. No, I haven't read the specific code that you are refering to regarding the Cof$, probaby neither have you. But ALL of these laws/codes are quite similar, because they are patterned after the Uniform Commercial Code. The UCC is licensed to various national government entities planet wide by a private corporate entity, a not for profit corporation by the name of Unidroit. Their website is unidroit.org. Their stated purpose is the unification of private commerical law PLANET WIDE. They are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Vatican, and their HQ is in Rome.

The underlying philosophy of the UCC is that you need not be given a full disclosure ... if you "exercise a benefit" you are then subject to all the why's, wherefores, codes, by-laws, etc. I call it the "Big Bubba" principal, as in you wind up in prison for, say, spitting on the sidewalk or some other heinous crime like failing to recycle a plastic bottle. When you get there, some big friendly inmate that they all call Bubba offers some sympathy as to your being there and a cigarette, which you accept and smoke. It turns out that Bubba is your cell mate, and that night he demands that you wash his socks ... or worse. You ask "By what right?????????" He is loathe to answer, but finally it comes down to you accepted that cigarette he offered you. By the inmate code, it's not just that he is big and intimidating, it's that YOU accepted his little "gift" and you should have known that nothing in prison is free. In my way of looking at things, Big Bubba should have been, by the inmate code, made to fully disclose all conditions at the time of offer.

So back to the Cof$ ... as putrid as they may be ... they shouldn't be subjected to the usual governmental fraud any more than anyone else. And until govt. stops behaving fraudulently, and starts operating on the principal of full dlsclosure, they are far, far, worse than the Cof$ could ever be.

There are two videos that I posted links to in this thread, you should take the time to view them. If you have to go thru them 10x each to fully 100% understand the concepts it is time well spent.

Pete

La La Lou Lou
2nd December 2011, 11:24 PM
Pete those videos are very hard work. I used to get exited about the freeman idea, now I just want to make sure I don't have to work for the rest of my life, I want the pension I paid my state for. I am a citizen, I don't mind doing jury duty or paying taxes that pay for the services I am happy to receive. I love the national health service.

I will try again to watch the videos, it's not easy though, I don't really have a problem with Government but I have a huge problem with politicians.

CRANE
3rd December 2011, 09:59 PM
Hi this is my first entry on the site. I'm in UK and need help and advice.
rsvip

La La Lou Lou
3rd December 2011, 10:01 PM
Crane, welcome mate, I'm all ears...

Dulloldfart
3rd December 2011, 11:33 PM
Hi this is my first entry on the site. I'm in UK and need help and advice.
rsvip

Hi there,

What the problem?

Paul

freethinker
4th December 2011, 01:33 AM
They don't accept out of UK. Have to be a UK resident to sign petition.

greebly
4th December 2011, 03:08 AM
Hi this is my first entry on the site. I'm in UK and need help and advice.
rsvip

Hi Crane

The site won't allow me to PM you at this time but feel free to try to PM me if you need any help with UK matters.

La La Lou Lou
4th December 2011, 12:15 PM
Freethinker that's a bummer, plus the fact they want so many signatures. What I like though is looking at all the truly crazy petitions going.

La La Lou Lou
4th December 2011, 12:33 PM
You really should see some of the other ones, like this one...


Reduce the chances of a UK nationalist from spontaneously combusting.

Responsible department: Department of Health

The United Kingdom currently has the highest rate of spontaneous human combustions throughout Europe, and if my research proves correct; throughout the entire world. It would be ignorant to ignore it or pass it off as just sheer luck, as there has obviously got to be a reason as to why the UK has approximately triple the amount of spontaneous human combustions compared to the second highest rated country, Estonia. I wish to see the UK government funding money on the research of spontaneous combustion, so that once and for all we can finally get to the bottom of this conspiracy of which is currently being passed off as a natural occurring 'phenomenon'.