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Petey C
24th December 2011, 03:04 AM
I've been thinking about Scientology "celebrities" -- basically how few there are, and how narrow their celebrity. As far as I can see they are mainly film people and mainly American, and apart from Cruise and Travolta, JLo and the voice of Bart Simpson, only known to small audiences or only known in a small way. Second stringers, you might say. The B list.

There are no serious actors among them such as Streep, Hoffman, De Niro, Blanchett. There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone? (And I'm not talking about pop stars but about musicians.) No Elvis Costello, Yo Yo Ma, Murray Parahia or Yvonne Kenny. No conductors. No serious visual or performance artists. Any well-known authors? Nope. Maybe the odd potboiler writer or two, but certainly no-one who writes serious literature.

My theory is that Scientology is only for the shallow and the wannabes (until they realise they're heading for a never-was unless they get out). It's all about the look of things, talking the talk, the superficial gloss hiding the rot.

Are there any counter examples to make me change my mind?

Smilla
24th December 2011, 03:13 AM
My sig line gives my opinion on this topic.

To be, or to appear to be. That is the question.

Designer delusion for the purveyors of illusion.

Mick Wenlock
24th December 2011, 03:29 AM
Well,Paul Haggis had some serious game in the creativity department but Scientology has never - that I have seen, truly brought forth the best of the creative people. And of course - how would it? Every artist pales in comparison to the mighty Hubbard. The writer of such masterpieces as battlefield earth..

freethinker
24th December 2011, 04:17 AM
Admission of being a Scio these days is detrimental to the career.:biggrin:
I've been thinking about Scientology "celebrities" -- basically how few there are, and how narrow their celebrity. As far as I can see they are mainly film people and mainly American, and apart from Cruise and Travolta, JLo and the voice of Bart Simpson, only known to small audiences or only known in a small way. Second stringers, you might say. The B list.

There are no serious actors among them such as Streep, Hoffman, De Niro, Blanchett. There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone? (And I'm not talking about pop stars but about musicians.) No Elvis Costello, Yo Yo Ma, Murray Parahia or Yvonne Kenny. No conductors. No serious visual or performance artists. Any well-known authors? Nope. Maybe the odd potboiler writer or two, but certainly no-one who writes serious literature.

My theory is that Scientology is only for the shallow and the wannabes (until they realise they're heading for a never-was unless they get out). It's all about the look of things, talking the talk, the superficial gloss hiding the rot.

Are there any counter examples to make me change my mind?

Petey C
24th December 2011, 07:20 AM
My sig line gives my opinion on this topic.

To be, or to appear to be. That is the question.

Designer delusion for the purveyors of illusion.

Good one, Smilla.

Petey C
24th December 2011, 07:21 AM
Well,Paul Haggis had some serious game in the creativity department but Scientology has never - that I have seen, truly brought forth the best of the creative people. And of course - how would it? Every artist pales in comparison to the mighty Hubbard. The writer of such masterpieces as battlefield earth..

He might be the exception that proves the rule.

PTSPal
24th December 2011, 07:47 AM
:duh: I saw a video last year...Mitt Romney says that "Battlefield Earth" is his favorite book and that Hubbard is one of his favorite authors:duh::confused2::confused2:

anonomog
24th December 2011, 07:54 AM
Admission of being a Scio these days is detrimental to the career.:biggrin:

Exactly. JLo would chew razorblades before admitting she is a Sci. Same with Will Smith.

:duh: Doesn't that tell them anything?

Helena Handbasket
24th December 2011, 08:04 AM
It seems many prominent people who are into Scientology say they are Buddists instead (Buddism is the one mainstream religion that Scientology is the most like).

I believe Steve Jobs was one of these.

Helena

Stat
24th December 2011, 09:37 AM
It seems many prominent people who are into Scientology say they are Buddists instead (Buddism is the one mainstream religion that Scientology is the most like).

I believe Steve Jobs was one of these.

Helena

Very true, Helena!

I know nothing about Steve Jobs and his believes, but your comment made me think of some writer with close Scientology connections,
who mentioned about being "rather a Buddhist" and that it's so "nazi-like" to attack any "religion".

But, hey, these are just my speculations. :coolwink:

Stat
24th December 2011, 09:40 AM
I've been thinking about Scientology "celebrities" -- basically how few there are, and how narrow their celebrity. As far as I can see they are mainly film people and mainly American, and apart from Cruise and Travolta, JLo and the voice of Bart Simpson, only known to small audiences or only known in a small way. Second stringers, you might say. The B list.

There are no serious actors among them such as Streep, Hoffman, De Niro, Blanchett. There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone? (And I'm not talking about pop stars but about musicians.) No Elvis Costello, Yo Yo Ma, Murray Parahia or Yvonne Kenny. No conductors. No serious visual or performance artists. Any well-known authors? Nope. Maybe the odd potboiler writer or two, but certainly no-one who writes serious literature.

My theory is that Scientology is only for the shallow and the wannabes (until they realise they're heading for a never-was unless they get out). It's all about the look of things, talking the talk, the superficial gloss hiding the rot.

Are there any counter examples to make me change my mind?

And yes, Petey C, you brought up a very good point! :thumbsup:

degraded being
24th December 2011, 09:43 AM
It seems many prominent people who are into Scientology say they are Buddists instead (Buddism is the one mainstream religion that Scientology is the most like).

I believe Steve Jobs was one of these.

Helena

I think it's like the mormans and nothing like Buddhism at all.

Stat
24th December 2011, 09:52 AM
I think it's like the mormans and nothing like Buddhism at all.

Or like a Hollywood star wannabe, who had a threesome with Mormon and Buddhist wannabe at a jacuzzi party and is extremely hangover, but got a hold of coke.
Go figure what happened there. :biggrin:

Petey C
24th December 2011, 12:53 PM
It seems many prominent people who are into Scientology say they are Buddists instead (Buddism is the one mainstream religion that Scientology is the most like).

I believe Steve Jobs was one of these.

Helena

It's nothing like Buddhism. Hubbard positioned himself deliberately as the Maitreya in the Hymn of Asia for cynical reasons -- it was part of what was called the Messianic Project which was aimed at equating Hubbard with Gautama Buddha and then the Messiah. You don't need to know much about Buddhism to know that Scientology is about as different from it as you can get and still be on the same planet.

Student of Trinity
24th December 2011, 01:32 PM
To an actor, the old line about the real world being a stage, too, is probably painfully true. Actors are constantly having scenes cut from their real lives, or written in at the last minute, and they have to make the show go on, with no say over how the script reads. Who's in, who's out? Will you get the part? Will the film bomb, or will it be a hit? Nobody knows these things, but millions of dollars ride on the outcome. Actors are even more pressingly aware than most people that their lives are shaped by unseen forces beyond their own control.

I think Scientology offers actors the prize of control over their lives, and actors are even more attracted to this prize than most people. Moreover, the means that Scientology provides to this end are familiar and congenial to actors. Isn't a lot of Scientology practice quite a lot like the sort of exercises you'd do in acting school?

Hubbard himself was clearly a kind of performer. But it's maybe a surprise that there aren't more writers in Scientology.

Or maybe not. Actors deliver lines written by other people, but writers are supposed to create their own stories. For someone who's a writer themselves, the appeal of going through a lot of another person's writing is much less. Plus, of course, Hubbard wasn't really a very good writer, and any good writer will see this pretty quickly.

KissMyStats
24th December 2011, 02:34 PM
These B list celebs would probably end up becoming A list if they blew the coop AND did it publicly in a big way.

Panda Termint
24th December 2011, 02:37 PM
I'd suggest that scientology has effectively derailed more careers than any other religion... ever!

Lermanet_com
24th December 2011, 04:00 PM
(snip)
There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone?

I liked Corea's 1st album, from when he was on heroin.

after he got off "drugs" his music had a metallic, fingernails on a blackboard quality, as if the pain was again manifesting. His later work reminded me of of the Power of source... (gag)

I believe some humans, for whatever reason (not referring to engrams or BTs), and perhaps genetically, require a bit of opium poppy extract.. Thomas Jefferson cultivated opium poppies at his garden in Monticello. I believe that God created the opium poppy so that old folks could bounce their grandchildren upon their knee without wincing.

arnie lerma

Good twin
24th December 2011, 04:14 PM
I think if Travolta were to blow the cult and come out of the closet his career would skyrocket. It would also allow him to talk openly about losing his son. He will never have closure or be at peace with Scientology "handling".

(and even if he's not gay - it would be a good career move to say he is) :coolwink:

Smilla
24th December 2011, 04:16 PM
I liked Corea's 1st album, from when he was on heroin.

after he got off "drugs" his music had a metallic, fingernails on a blackboard quality, as if the pain was again manifesting. He later work s reminded me of of the Power of source... (gag)

I believe some humans, for whatever reason (not referring to engrams or BTs), and perhaps genetically, require a bit of opium poppy extract.. Thomas Jefferson cultivated opium poppies at his garden in Monticello. I believe that God created the opium poppy so that old folks could bounce their grandchildren upon their knee without wincing.

arnie lerma

I've always found Chick Corea's music very cold and lacking in feeling. He's very good technically, but that's not enough if the feeling isn't there.

Semper Phi
24th December 2011, 04:33 PM
I've been thinking about Scientology "celebrities" -- basically how few there are, and how narrow their celebrity. As far as I can see they are mainly film people and mainly American, and apart from Cruise and Travolta, JLo and the voice of Bart Simpson, only known to small audiences or only known in a small way. Second stringers, you might say. The B list.

There are no serious actors among them such as Streep, Hoffman, De Niro, Blanchett. There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone? (And I'm not talking about pop stars but about musicians.) No Elvis Costello, Yo Yo Ma, Murray Parahia or Yvonne Kenny. No conductors. No serious visual or performance artists. Any well-known authors? Nope. Maybe the odd potboiler writer or two, but certainly no-one who writes serious literature.

My theory is that Scientology is only for the shallow and the wannabes (until they realise they're heading for a never-was unless they get out). It's all about the look of things, talking the talk, the superficial gloss hiding the rot.

Are there any counter examples to make me change my mind?

The only counter-example I can think of is a (now retired) opera singer named Julia Migenes-Johnson. She was not a superstar but was very highly regarded back in the '70s and '80s.

I have a background in classical music and have always loved painting, sculpture, ballet, etc. I remember thinking at my very first Scn event that with the tacky, faux-temple sets, the exploding stat graphs and generally over-the-top production values, Scn would be a tough sell to "serious" artists.

But, of course, they got me in spite of that... :duh:

Smilla
24th December 2011, 04:39 PM
The only counter-example I can think of is a (now retired) opera singer named Julia Migenes-Johnson. She was not a superstar but was very highly regarded back in the '70s and '80s.

I have a background in classical music and have always loved painting, sculpture, ballet, etc. I remember thinking at my very first Scn event that with the tacky, faux-temple sets, the exploding stat graphs and generally over-the-top production values, Scn would be a tough sell to "serious" artists.

But, of course, they got me in spite of that... :duh:

Me too!

Welcome :-)

Mick Wenlock
24th December 2011, 04:50 PM
Well hmm I really don't think there has been one "artist" in scientology that I have found to be worth any interest. Helnwein is one of the most unoriginal "artists" I have ever seen - I saw his work and the first thing that crossed my mind was a) he copies Munch, badly and b) his rip off of night hawks was pretty neat but utterly unoriginal.

I have liked many of Travolta's films - but that's just an actor and the writing and the direction is the really creative part. I have not seen or heard of any actor in Scientology actually making their living on the stage and becoming a stunning success.

Writers? None that spring to mind.

Musicians? Well I cordially detest Chick Corea and I detest jazz and fusion et alia so I am not really able to judge his creativity - I did like The String Band but they were skilled entertainers (and kudos for that) but I don;t know how much originality was in their work.

I guess, as I think about it, that Scientology producers a certain level of "performer" rather than truly creative artists.

Winston Smith
24th December 2011, 04:53 PM
I was introduced to Scn via classical musicians, but they (and I) abandoned it all in short order. Deon Satterfield, a Curtis Institute harpist, ran the local mission but she was decidedly "not an org person." To my knowledge she has nothing to do with it any longer.

As far as I am concerned real well trained musicians are already inspired enough by their involvement with great music. No need for "enlightenment" by a dummy like Blubbard. I remember much hoopla about Mario Fenninger, the pianist. To my mind he was the exception to the overwhelming number of great musicians who had no need of the scam of Scn.

As a cellist I can say that my association with great players has been thrilling and I have no need to look elsewhere for happiness. The demands of music however are daunting and making a detour into the twilight zone of scientology is professional suicide for classical musicians.

Welcome Semper Phi! Any significance to that nic?

Semper Phi
24th December 2011, 05:56 PM
I was introduced to Scn via classical musicians, but they (and I) abandoned it all in short order. Deon Satterfield, a Curtis Institute harpist, ran the local mission but she was decidedly "not an org person." To my knowledge she has nothing to do with it any longer.

As far as I am concerned real well trained musicians are already inspired enough by their involvement with great music. No need for "enlightenment" by a dummy like Blubbard. I remember much hoopla about Mario Fenninger, the pianist. To my mind he was the exception to the overwhelming number of great musicians who had no need of the scam of Scn.

As a cellist I can say that my association with great players has been thrilling and I have no need to look elsewhere for happiness. The demands of music however are daunting and making a detour into the twilight zone of scientology is professional suicide for classical musicians.

I was introduced by a classical singer who had himself gotten involved a few months earlier. He did have some big wins that he felt improved his performing, mostly from the TRs, and felt PTS tech helped too. He was on CC lines, and they were all excited that he was going to help penetrate the classical music world, where they weren't having much success. He did introduce some performers to Scn staff who attended his performances, but apparently most of those who got in are now out, as is he. I think he would definitely agree with what you said above. Inspired artists attract other inspired artists and gain inspiration from the art itself and the collaboration.

Welcome Semper Phi! Any significance to that nic?

Yes, there is. I'll explain more later, but I will say that I didn't misspell the US Marines motto ("Semper fidelis" for non-Yanks). It's Phi as in Phi Beta Kappa, the American academic honors society. I'm a member, but my training ordeal at Flag left me feeling like one of the "slow" kids. My nic is one of the ways I'm trying to reclaim my intellect.

It's good to be here. :yes:

Good twin
24th December 2011, 05:58 PM
Yes, there is. I'll explain more later, but I will say that I didn't misspell the US Marines motto ("Semper fidelis" for non-Yanks). It's Phi as in Phi Beta Kappa, the American academic honors society. I'm a member, but my training ordeal at Flag left me feeling like one of the "slow" kids. My nic is one of the ways I'm trying to reclaim my intellect.

It's good to be here. :yes:

:welcome: Kid.

Type4_PTS
24th December 2011, 06:15 PM
It's good to be here. :yes:

Welcome SP! :happydance:

I took the liberty of abbreviating your nic. :coolwink::biggrin:

Semper Phi
24th December 2011, 07:15 PM
Welcome SP! :happydance:

I took the liberty of abbreviating your nic. :coolwink::biggrin:

Ha! I honestly hadn't spotted that, was all wrapped up in my significance.

I'll do my best to live up to it! :wink2:

Winston Smith
24th December 2011, 08:33 PM
Yes, there is. I'll explain more later, but I will say that I didn't misspell the US Marines motto ("Semper fidelis" for non-Yanks). It's Phi as in Phi Beta Kappa, the American academic honors society. I'm a member, but my training ordeal at Flag left me feeling like one of the "slow" kids. My nic is one of the ways I'm trying to reclaim my intellect.

It's good to be here. :yes:

The musicians I knew also credited TRs in helping their performance. The concept of "being in present time" definitely has a prominent place in performance, but I loathe to credit Scientology for that concept. Hubbard and company have no monopoly on observation, on using intellect to figure problems out. In fact, once the scienoweenies delved further into it, they negated "being in present time" big time. They trample on it with great abandon. So we have one tiny helpful thing and untold volumes making trash of it.

Semper Phi, you will get all your ability back; it just takes a bit of time. Just walking out that door is 99% of the answer.

BunnySkull
24th December 2011, 10:10 PM
I would just like to correct a false statement made in this thread - Steve Jobs was never a scientologist - not even close. Jobs definitely tilted toward Eastern philosophies and some new age ideas, but it didn't not include Scientology. His belief in Buddishm was real, not a cover for being a Scio. Believe, a guy like Jobs would never tolerate the totalitarian, authoritarian nature of Scientology.

However I'm sure DM has a wet spot in his panties even thinking about Jobs as a Scibot and would love to give currency to the idea that a innovator, tech genius like Jobs would be into Scientology's head-fabulist, LRH.

The only tech person of any note, that I'm aware of, that's a real scientologist is that Sky Davis of earthlink. Unfortunately, he's a brainwashed 2nd generation Scio so I don't think there was a lot free choice there. Scientists and tech people are usually immediately put off by Scientology's inability of offer any actual proof to their wild claims. Hard data and scientifically tested proof is a daily requirement in their lives, they aren't prone to make an exception for some fat Ginger who wants you to take his word on solving the mysteries of the universe. Besides LRH's book on radiation would send any scientist in to hysterical fits of laughter.

paradox
24th December 2011, 11:30 PM
The musicians I knew also credited TRs in helping their performance. The concept of "being in present time" definitely has a prominent place in performance, but I loathe to credit Scientology for that concept. Hubbard and company have no monopoly on observation, on using intellect to figure problems out. In fact, once the scienoweenies delved further into it, they negated "being in present time" big time. They trample on it with great abandon. So we have one tiny helpful thing and untold volumes making trash of it.

Semper Phi, you will get all your ability back; it just takes a bit of time. Just walking out that door is 99% of the answer.

Boy, did they (he) ever. He perverted it into being in present time with a point, tacking on a purpose, and instilling a mission intent of controlling another and others, under the pretext of help and "spiritually engineered" enlightenment <puke> (refer to his defunct '53 creation of the pretentiously-named "Church of Spiritual Engineering" :hysterical: http://lisatrust.freewinds.be/scientology/spirit-engineering1.htm).

Opter
24th December 2011, 11:53 PM
Ha! I honestly hadn't spotted that, was all wrapped up in my significance.

I'll do my best to live up to it! :wink2:




Welcome Semper Phi:happydance::happydance:


And I hope you live up to your initials.:yes::omg:


Opter

Petey C
25th December 2011, 06:14 AM
The actors who seem to be in the thrall of Scn also seem to be very narrow in their roles -- they represent drama lite to me. There is no great actor in the ranks -- someone who is adventurous, who takes risks, who plays against type, who plies their craft.

As someone who was a struggling musician/songwriter when I first got in to Scientology, I was pretty productive before Scn and a bit productive in the first few months after my first course. Then I went into the SO and came unstuck. (I also had to sell my musical instruments to make ends meet.) It would have been 15 years later when I had my second musical blossoming.


As far as I am concerned real well trained musicians are already inspired enough by their involvement with great music. No need for "enlightenment" by a dummy like Blubbard.

I agree, Winst. I'm struggling to put into words what it is about the truly great artists as opposed to the merely mediocre that gives them immunity against Scn. I think it's that their primary engagement is with the music (or the art form) and they don't need any mediation from other sources. Somehow, whatever they're feeling, they don't appear to be interested in having their confidence boosted or their talent filtered through some strange self-help philosophy.


Scientists and tech people are usually immediately put off by Scientology's inability of offer any actual proof to their wild claims. Hard data and scientifically tested proof is a daily requirement in their lives ...

True. But it has also amazed me how many serious scientists of the 50-60+ age group -- physicists of all stripes, chemists, mathematicians, life scientists -- manage to concurrently hold a belief in Jesus and God while also being fine scientists.


I'll explain more later, but I will say that I didn't misspell the US Marines motto ("Semper fidelis" for non-Yanks). It's Phi as in Phi Beta Kappa, the American academic honors society. I'm a member, but my training ordeal at Flag left me feeling like one of the "slow" kids. My nic is one of the ways I'm trying to reclaim my intellect.

Welcome SP. You're in good company here. Some of our best friends are SPs! And don't worry about reclaiming your intellect; it's still there and you'll find it again soon enough once you've sloughed off the layers of Scieno crap. Just think of it as insulation!

koki
25th December 2011, 11:01 AM
[QUOTE=BunnySkull;641722]I would just like to correct a false statement made in this thread - Steve Jobs was never a scientologist - not even close. Jobs definitely tilted toward Eastern philosophies and some new age ideas, but it didn't not include Scientology. His belief in Buddishm was real, not a cover for being a Scio. Believe, a guy like Jobs would never tolerate the totalitarian, authoritarian nature of Scientology.


100% true...

Mest Lover
25th December 2011, 11:23 AM
There are no world-calibre musicians other than Chick Corea and hasn't his day come and gone? (And I'm not talking about pop stars but about musicians.) No Elvis Costello, Yo Yo Ma, Murray Parahia or Yvonne Kenny.


While doing a BMO cycle at CLO EUS I saw Carly Simon on their list. Doesn't mean she is a Scientologist though I guess. It was her Park avenue address in NYC.

Mest Lover
25th December 2011, 11:30 AM
Ha! I honestly hadn't spotted that, was all wrapped up in my significance.

I'll do my best to live up to it! :wink2:

I truly believe you find your nick on here through great subconscious and profound needs to shed the veil of SCN found therein.

Infinite
25th December 2011, 12:05 PM
Where is Scientology's "Art" ? For all its pretensions to creativity, where is its Sistene Chapel, which composers/writers/artists/architects etc., etc., have been either contracted or suitably moved within themselves to provide a piece of their works specifically to model Scientology? Absent, as far as I can see. I'm reminded of a poignant comment (http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1408&Itemid=150&limit=1&limitstart=1) by Caroline Letkeman regarding some sculpture in place at the Super Power building:


http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/source/source194-39-a.jpg


Notice the faceless, depersonalized statues in the lobby.

. . . life imitating Art?

Winston Smith
26th December 2011, 02:31 PM
Where is Scientology's "Art" ? For all its pretensions to creativity, where is its Sistene Chapel, which composers/writers/artists/architects etc., etc., have been either contracted or suitably moved within themselves to provide a piece of their works specifically to model Scientology? Absent, as far as I can see. I'm reminded of a poignant comment (http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1408&Itemid=150&limit=1&limitstart=1) by Caroline Letkeman regarding some sculpture in place at the Super Power building:


http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/source/source194-39-a.jpg



. . . life imitating Art?

OMG this pic gives me the creeps. It screams "Nineteen Eighty-four," and "Brave New World."

HelluvaHoax!
26th December 2011, 03:59 PM
Where is Scientology's "Art" ? For all its pretensions to creativity, where is its Sistene Chapel, which composers/writers/artists/architects etc., etc., have been either contracted or suitably moved within themselves to provide a piece of their works specifically to model Scientology? Absent, as far as I can see. I'm reminded of a poignant comment (http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1408&Itemid=150&limit=1&limitstart=1) by Caroline Letkeman regarding some sculpture in place at the Super Power building:


http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/source/source194-39-a.jpg



. . . life imitating Art?


One of the truly notable things about this pathetic and discordantly feeble attempt to re-create the celestial splendor of Baroque master architect/artist/designer/sculptor Bernini is that it fails to reach transcendence because it merely hurls tasteless new age cliches at the viewer--exactly as the cult of Scientology does with rabid marketing efforts to sell a "bridge to eternity".

I was tempted for a moment to include a photograph of Bernini's work, but it is so vast and marvelous, it was impossible to pick only one example without feeling that i did a disservice to one of the greatest artists to ever walk the earth. So, I will leave it to interested readers to dig as deeply into the internet as they find satisfying.

If I had to name the style of architecture that best described the abominable SuperPower interior, it would be "RTC meets KSW" (Reich Technologie Cult meets Kitschy Startrek Werks).

Petey C
26th December 2011, 11:01 PM
If I had to name the style of architecture that best described the abominable SuperPower interior, it would be "RTC meets KSW" (Reich Technologie Cult meets Kitschy Startrek Werks).

:lol:

Semper Phi
27th December 2011, 03:11 AM
One of the truly notable things about this pathetic and discordantly feeble attempt to re-create the celestial splendor of Baroque master architect/artist/designer/sculptor Bernini is that it fails to reach transcendence because it merely hurls tasteless new age cliches at the viewer--exactly as the cult of Scientology does with rabid marketing efforts to sell a "bridge to eternity".

I was tempted for a moment to include a photograph of Bernini's work, but it is so vast and marvelous, it was impossible to pick only one example without feeling that i did a disservice to one of the greatest artists to ever walk the earth. So, I will leave it to interested readers to dig as deeply into the internet as they find satisfying.

If I had to name the style of architecture that best described the abominable SuperPower interior, it would be "RTC meets KSW" (Reich Technologie Cult meets Kitschy Startrek Werks).

OMG, I agree with everything you said. And thank you for not demeaning Bernini by putting his work on the same page as this horrifying cow pie of grandiosity.

Every design done for Scn has nothing to do with art or even good taste, and everything to do with showing how massive and powerful and impressive Scn is. It's pathethic how proud they are that they commissioned original sculpture for the Mecca lobby. And when the renderings went up on the screen during Flag graduation everyone oohed and ahhed and felt so proud. Ugghhh.

xseaorguk
27th December 2011, 08:57 AM
that photo is defininately creepy and reminds me of one of the Alien films but with more lighting.
Maybe the figures are meant to represent the captured souls then solidified in MEST for eternity:omg:

Mest Lover
27th December 2011, 01:46 PM
that photo is defininately creepy and reminds me of one of the Alien films but with more lighting.
Maybe the figures are meant to represent the captured souls then solidified in MEST for eternity:omg:

Tis far better to be solidified in MEST then imprisoned in the Sea Org.

Rococo light

Gus
28th December 2011, 08:32 AM
It seems many prominent people who are into Scientology say they are Buddists instead (Buddism is the one mainstream religion that Scientology is the most like).

I believe Steve Jobs was one of these.

Helena


I would just like to correct a false statement made in this thread - Steve Jobs was never a scientologist - not even close. Jobs definitely tilted toward Eastern philosophies and some new age ideas, but it didn't not include Scientology. His belief in Buddishm was real, not a cover for being a Scio.


True, Jobs was never a Scielo. He never even took a course.

But to clarify further, he didn't just tilt toward Eastern philosophy, he was a real, practicing, Buddhist.





The only tech person of any note, that I'm aware of, that's a real scientologist is that Sky Davis of earthlink.

Sky Dayton. And I have to wonder if he's getting sick of the shit, too. His father-in-law is Alan Larson (Founder of Delphi), and I have a feeling Dr. Larson is a bit fed up with the "Church" these days.


Gus.

Gus
28th December 2011, 08:48 AM
Where is Scientology's "Art" ? For all its pretensions to creativity, where is its Sistene Chapel, which composers/writers/artists/architects etc., etc., have been either contracted or suitably moved within themselves to provide a piece of their works specifically to model Scientology?...

But, but, but, whattabout this??? Behold the inspired magnificence, the Grand Tribute to the Little Dick who would rule them all, oh, my eyes well up with tears at the very sight of this wonder:


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1562/davidmiscavige3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/davidmiscavige3.jpg/)


Actually, this horror perfectly sums up the aesthetic sense of Scientology. Especially because it is all made of styrofoam.

Gus.

Commander Birdsong
28th December 2011, 05:03 PM
that photo is defininately creepy and reminds me of one of the Alien films but with more lighting.
Maybe the figures are meant to represent the captured souls then solidified in MEST for eternity:omg:

albert speer on lsd

Div6
28th December 2011, 06:53 PM
Where is Scientology's "Art" ? For all its pretensions to creativity, where is its Sistene Chapel, which composers/writers/artists/architects etc., etc., have been either contracted or suitably moved within themselves to provide a piece of their works specifically to model Scientology? Absent, as far as I can see. I'm reminded of a poignant comment (http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1408&Itemid=150&limit=1&limitstart=1) by Caroline Letkeman regarding some sculpture in place at the Super Power building:


http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/source/source194-39-a.jpg



. . . life imitating Art?



Looks like the purrrfect place for the 1% ers to be re-educated, er re-programmed, no wait.....attain spiritual freedom! Yeh, that's the ticket!

Petey C
28th December 2011, 11:48 PM
True, Jobs was never a Scielo. He never even took a course.

But to clarify further, he didn't just tilt toward Eastern philosophy, he was a real, practicing, Buddhist.

Gus.

I've just finished reading his biography. Not much mention of Buddhism there, though he was certainly interested in eastern philosophy. As a young man he was a follower of the Maharaj-ji, and thereafter became very interested in Zen -- well, I suppose that's Buddhism of a sort, but neither he nor his biographer ever referred to Buddhism much in the (very long) book.

What he *was* a devotee of was various diets including fasting, fruit-only, apple-only, carrot-only, veganism, vegetarianism, etc.

He was also someone who lived without a "civility" filter and he could be exceptionally mean and unkind to people around him, including his family. That doesn't sound very Buddhist to me.

What *is* interesting, though, he apparently had an amazingly piercing blinkless stare that he used to use on people.

Commander Birdsong
29th December 2011, 12:18 AM
But, but, but, whattabout this??? Behold the inspired magnificence, the Grand Tribute to the Little Dick who would rule them all, oh, my eyes well up with tears at the very sight of this wonder:


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1562/davidmiscavige3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/davidmiscavige3.jpg/)


Actually, this horror perfectly sums up the aesthetic sense of Scientology. Especially because it is all made of styrofoam.

Gus.

nice looking jukebox

if it's got "thunder road" i'll toss in two bits

Miss Pert
2nd January 2012, 08:43 AM
Yes, there is. I'll explain more later, but I will say that I didn't misspell the US Marines motto ("Semper fidelis" for non-Yanks). It's Phi as in Phi Beta Kappa, the American academic honors society. I'm a member, but my training ordeal at Flag left me feeling like one of the "slow" kids. My nic is one of the ways I'm trying to reclaim my intellect.

It's good to be here. :yes:

A HUUUGE WELCOME to you SP!!!!!!!! I am so glad you're out :happydance::happydance::happydance: and send you equally huge :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Java
2nd January 2012, 09:17 AM
I liked Corea's 1st album, from when he was on heroin.

after he got off "drugs" his music had a metallic, fingernails on a blackboard quality, as if the pain was again manifesting. His later work reminded me of of the Power of source... (gag)

I believe some humans, for whatever reason (not referring to engrams or BTs), and perhaps genetically, require a bit of opium poppy extract.. Thomas Jefferson cultivated opium poppies at his garden in Monticello. I believe that God created the opium poppy so that old folks could bounce their grandchildren upon their knee without wincing.


arnie lerma

People like the Music of others who are on the same drug... As a matter of fact all music can be related to some mental or drug state.. I can spot what music reflect what drug state often.., and that is why I do not like the music of some junkies whose drugs I have never used..




.

Gottabrain
2nd January 2012, 09:25 AM
People like the Music of others who are on the same drug... As a matter of fact all music can be related to some mental or drug state.. I can spot what music reflect what drug state often.., and that is why I do not like the music of some junkies whose drugs I have never used...

so what drug are you on now?

TheRealNoUser
9th January 2012, 08:41 AM
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1562/davidmiscavige3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/davidmiscavige3.jpg/)


Actually, this horror perfectly sums up the aesthetic sense of Scientology. Especially because it is all made of styrofoam.

Even though it's styrofoam, that giant Ron logo could seriously dent a dwarf.

Smurf
9th January 2012, 08:53 AM
I was asked if Laura Prepon had left the cult.. I was informed she stopped hanging at the Celebrity Centre in 2007 after she & Chris Masterson broke up.. and it was very acrimonious.

http://www.bergproperties.com/blog/actress-laura-prepon-and-her-ex-actor-christopher-masterson-sell-their-4801-square-foot-house-in-los-angeles-los-feliz-area-for-2-28m/

Laura, Chris & actor Gerard Butler were investors in a restaurant.. they are now being sued..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/16/idUS21523490720110816

Man de la Mancha
7th February 2012, 06:30 AM
Does anyone know if the Scn celebrities worry about their pc folders? By the time one goes OT, hasn't she already given up all her deepest darkest secrets? I've noticed an almost unnaturally exuberant support of their religion amongst the celebs. I don't think Scn would ever release pc folders because it would be a PR nightmare, but what about the homeless guy working in 'archives"?

I actually think most those "Scientology celebrities" seem like pretty decent people, and there's certainly some talent amongst them.

GreyLensman
7th February 2012, 09:44 PM
Or like a Hollywood star wannabe, who had a threesome with Mormon and Buddhist wannabe at a jacuzzi party and is extremely hangover, but got a hold of coke.
Go figure what happened there. :biggrin:

He woke up and realized this Dianetics stuff wasn't going to last - what he really needed was a religion...

GreyLensman
7th February 2012, 09:48 PM
I think if Travolta were to blow the cult and come out of the closet his career would skyrocket. It would also allow him to talk openly about losing his son. He will never have closure or be at peace with Scientology "handling".

(and even if he's not gay - it would be a good career move to say he is) :coolwink:

He's not gay - that was just a BT...

GreyLensman
7th February 2012, 09:55 PM
I've always found Chick Corea's music very cold and lacking in feeling. He's very good technically, but that's not enough if the feeling isn't there.

I think that's partially selection of material and musical direction. I love "Light as a Feather" but the things I like about it are not just Chick's playing - you have Joe Ferrell on flute and sax, you have Airto Moreira on drums, Stanley Clarke on acoustic bass and you have the incomparable Flora Purim on vocals. And at that time Chick was playing a very non-acoustic sounding electric piano and Fender Rhodes.

The feeling comes from all of the players.

Man de la Mancha
9th February 2012, 12:30 AM
He's not gay - that was just a BT...

Or, more specifically, a PT.

Gus
9th May 2012, 09:48 AM
I've just finished reading his biography. Not much mention of Buddhism there, though he was certainly interested in eastern philosophy. As a young man he was a follower of the Maharaj-ji, and thereafter became very interested in Zen -- well, I suppose that's Buddhism of a sort, but neither he nor his biographer ever referred to Buddhism much in the (very long) book.

What he *was* a devotee of was various diets including fasting, fruit-only, apple-only, carrot-only, veganism, vegetarianism, etc.

He was also someone who lived without a "civility" filter and he could be exceptionally mean and unkind to people around him, including his family. That doesn't sound very Buddhist to me.

What *is* interesting, though, he apparently had an amazingly piercing blinkless stare that he used to use on people.

I read the biography too, and I noted that its timeline stopped some years ago, and did not include any accounts by any of his recent cohorts - Tim Cook, Jony Ive, Scott Forstall, etc. - people with whom he worked closely in the last decade. By some other accounts I have read, he matured quite a bit in his later decade or so.

Whatever his personality traits, he studied Buddhism and I suppose he practiced it the best he could. He went through his numerous fads with dieting, but he was consistent with Buddhism. Nevertheless, he was not a Scientologist.

I think the bio presented more detail of his earlier years while his contemporaries were still around to talk about them. I believe there will be more to come about his later years, perhaps when the people he worked with most recently start retiring. I think Jony Ive in particular would reveal a much different Steve Jobs. v2.0, if you will :)

Gus

Moosejewels
10th May 2012, 12:41 AM
It's nothing like Buddhism. Hubbard positioned himself deliberately as the Maitreya in the Hymn of Asia for cynical reasons -- it was part of what was called the Messianic Project which was aimed at equating Hubbard with Gautama Buddha and then the Messiah. You don't need to know much about Buddhism to know that Scientology is about as different from it as you can get and still be on the same planet.

I so agree. Loving kindness and compassion have nothing to do with becoming a mega-wealthy psycho pervo recluse.