Seeking Advice On A "Hypothetical" Situation

[Beef Terminal]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

[Veda]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

What you are describing is not "disconnection," in the sense that it's practiced, imposed, and enforced, by the deceptive and abusive personality cult of Scientology.

[Beef Terminal]

What you are describing is not "disconnection," in the sense that it's practiced, imposed, and enforced, by the deceptive and abusive personality cult of Scientology.

Based on what I have read, that is exactly what disconnection is, mate.

Any tool can be misused.

If you don't believe it I can hit you in the head with a wrench, Jettero Heller style.

[Veda]

Based on what I have read, that is exactly what disconnection is, mate.

Any tool can be misused.

If you don't believe it I can hit you in the head with a wrench, Jettero Heller style.

No, you are mistaken. Read more.

Deceptive and abusive cultism is not a "tool."

[Beef Terminal]

No, you are mistaken. Read more.

Deceptive and abusive cultism is not a "tool."

Well, then disconnect!

But since you are so self-professedly wise, let's get back to some Dr. Phil-esque advice you can offer on my situation.

[Veda]

Well, then disconnect!

But since you are so self-professedly wise, let's get back to some Dr. Phil-esque advice you can offer on my situation.

First, you find out what Disconnection is - in the cult of Scientology.

You have some reading to do.

[Alanzo]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

What would Ron say to do?

What would you do before you had yourself invalidated and then began to seek advice from others on how to live your life?

[Beef Terminal]

What would Ron say to do?

What would you do before you had yourself invalidated and then began to seek advice from others on how to live your life?

Advice on handling a situation such as this is not seeking advice on how to live one's life, my dear VedalanzO.

Invalidated oneself? You sound like the Scientologist here, mate!

And I am unsure what Ron would say to do, maybe you could look it up for me in your Scientology library? Would you be so kind?

[Veda]

Advice on handling a situation such as this is not seeking advice on how to live one's life, my dear VedalanzO.

Invalidated oneself? You sound like the Scientologist here, mate!

And I am unsure what Ron would say to do, maybe you could look it up for me in your Scientology library? Would you be so kind?

Oh, you're in no such situation. It's just something contrived in an attempt to make some bogus point about "disconnection."

[Beef Terminal]

Oh, you're in no such situation. It's just something contrived in an attempt to make some bogus point about "disconnection."

And you came to this conclusion how?

Interestingly, the "husband" just arrived home with just this to say, "Sup? Almost wrecked the car."

[Veda]

And you came to this conclusion how?

Interestingly, the "husband" just arrived home with just this to say, "Sup? Almost wrecked the car."

Just now? Wow.

[Beef Terminal]

Ya, within the last 10 or so minutes.

So answer the question, Dr. Phil.

[Veda]

Ya, within the last 10 or so minutes.

So answer the question, Dr. Phil.

Nope. Not buying your story.

In any event, the "situation" that you're describing isn't Scientology cult enforced and imposed Disconnection.

You find out what "Disconnection" is, in the cult of Scientology.

Then, once you've done that, spend some time reviewing the first half of L. Ron Hubbard's Fair Game Law, specifically, the "Trick and lie to" part.

[Beef Terminal]

Nope. Not buying your story.

In any event, the "situation" that you're describing isn't Scientology cult enforced and imposed Disconnection.

You find out what "Disconnection" is, in the cult of Scientology.

Then, once you've done that, spend some time reviewing the first half of L. Ron Hubbard's Fair Game Law, specifically, the "Trick and lie to" part.

I did say it was "hypothetical"....or did you conveniently miss that part, mate?

[Veda]

I did say it was "hypothetical"....or did you conveniently miss that part, mate?

"Hypothetical" in quotes. Implying it really isn't, or is it, or isn't it, or is it?

Once again, the "situation" that you describe is not Scientology cult imposed enforced Disconnection.

Now, go read up on what Disconnection is, in the Cult of Scientology, then, once you've done that, review the first half of L. Ron Hubbard's Fair Game Law.

[Beef Terminal]

"Hypothetical" in quotes. Implying it really isn't, or is it, or isn't it, or is it?

Once again, the "situation" that you describe is not Scientology cult imposed enforced Disconnection.

Now, go read up on what Disconnection is, in the Cult of Scientology, then, once you've done that, review the first half of L. Ron Hubbard's Fair Game Law.

Hypothetical is in quotes as I was quoting myself...

But seriously, mate, it's a legit situation. And I'd be interested in your legit wisdom, should you actually have any...

[Veda]

Hypothetical is in quotes as I was quoting myself...

But seriously, mate, it's a legit situation. And I'd be interested in your legit wisdom, should you actually have any...

Seriously "mate," I've already given you my "legit wisdom."

See above.

[Free to shine]

BT - what exactly are you trying to achieve with your bizarre 'hypothetical' post? See who comes out swinging? Clog up the board?

[Beef Terminal]

Seriously "mate," I've already given you my "legit wisdom."

See above.

No really, you haven't.

You've just said the same things you have said in just about all the posts I have been able to read by you since you showed that nearly empty noggin of yours on my thread.

Don't you get bored repeating the same agenda, ad infinitum?

I guess with that other account you can let your "real self" out.

Destroyer of Worlds.

[programmer_guy]

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?


I don't think that there is any other solution other than what you stated. I think that you already know the answer as you stated above. It may not be feasible just now BUT it seems to me that this is what you are going to have to do. Start making plans on how you are going to do it - this may take some time to accomplish.

[Beef Terminal]

BT - what exactly are you trying to achieve with your bizarre 'hypothetical' post? See who comes out swinging? Clog up the board?

I was seriously seeking some advice...which is still quite absent.

If this thread clogs up the board, then damn, the Mods needs to get better software and some extra BW.

[Free to shine]

I was seriously seeking some advice...which is still quite absent.



Well if the situation isn't hypothetical after all - PG has answered your post with the only common sense advice you need.

[Beef Terminal]

I don't think that there is any other solution other than what you stated. I think that you already know the answer as you stated above. It may not be feasible just now BUT it seems to me that this is what you are going to have to do. Start making plans on how you are going to do it - this may take some time to accomplish.

Thanks for the response, PG. It is a work in progress. But the sooner the better.

[programmer_guy]

Thanks for the response, PG. It is a work in progress. But the sooner the better.

Just don't tell anyone or they will screw you over in order to prevent your plan.

[MarkWI]

[...]
Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

Beef,
the one you talk about is not "Disconnection" as used by the cult of Scientology.

It's just freedom to choice ones friends or ones neighborhood.

If you don't like someone then, why you hang around whit him?

(And I keep thinking… If you don't like this board or its members, why do you post here?)

Disconnection as enforced by the cult is telling somebody he will lose his eternity and be expelled by the cult if he ever talks again with somebody that the Church doesn't like (often a family member of him).

Disconnection is breaking up families; it is forbidding a child to talk whit his parent or he will loose his job. Or forbidding a parent to talk with his child.
I have seen to many instances of that happening.

But you know that, because you are a Scientologist. And your purpose here does not seem to look for advices, but to create noises on the board and insult its members. :catfight:

Mark

[programmer_guy]

And your purpose here does not seem to look for advices, but to create noises on the board and insult its members.


I tend to presume innocent until proven guilty.
Do you know something that I don't know?

[Little Bear Victor]

A "hypothetical" situation:

1. Have a David Miscavige married to a Shelly Miscavige with one child.

2. DM is consistently beating other people up while gathering to himself endless powers and falsely vilifying well-intentioned people by black PRing them by publicizing their priest-penintent confidential confessions asking what crime they have against him until the question is given a satisfactory answer.

3. The wife recently had a baby, although this is strictly forbidden in the entire Sea Org. DM could not get her to change her mind (DM also has been working for years on getting a celebrity friend and fellow accomplice to find a new wife, running around to one women after another until finally finding a suitable, young girlfriend he managed to get pregnant despite being famously incapable of doing so in the past)

4. Since she "revolted" DM has closed her off from the rest of the world in a undisclosed location under 24-hour security watch. (Isolation, restraint, "ethics" program and security checking to force out invented crimes until enough to make it look like it is the wife who is at fault)

5. Both are "accident prone". DM way more so than the wife. (Broad-ranging general wreckage of people (and things) in the environment)

6. DM denies having a child.

7. DM expresses (wanting (and definitely not caring) that eveyone on the Int Base can hear him) almost every single Int Base staff member's inability to "expand Scientology" and counter-intention to it. (i.e. "the world would be so fucked up if I ever let anybody off this Base to go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct rephrasal and a specific])

8. DM graphically discusses various things (such as individual's sexual perversions, imaginary sexual preferences, fantasies and "what do they do and think at night", etc., etc.) around anyone he meets with at the Base as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where I would never allow my child nor anyone else for that matter to be around this individual unsupervised)

Handling: Leave the Int Base immediately. This type of disconnection is not only acceptable, it is highly recommended.

The type of disconnection described in LRH policy is a different matter entirely.

Any further suggestions as to better handling of this situation?

If you want to, I can connect you up with BFG to discuss further what DM has been up to; this is just the hypothetical top of the iceberg.

[Div6]

It appears that JSwift has an RRX5, who is promising a post on the details surrounding DM's "sexuality".

Does he dress up as a super hero in leotards?

[Little Bear Victor]

It appears that JSwift has an RRX5, who is promising a post on the details surrounding DM's "sexuality".

Does he dress up as a super hero in leotards?

I'd be rather surprised if someone can actually find out anything about it. I got the distinct impression that he keeps his own PC folders (unless he has destroyed them) in safekeeping and avoids going in session at all cost.

So unless someone like BFG has installed supercircuits (microscopic cameras) into his bedroom, it is not a likely thing for anyone but his (ex-)wife to know much about.

Hmm. The great secrecy about the identity of RRX5 does make one's imagination fly...

[Alan]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.



Some none-scio advice: "Birds of a feather flock together! - They also tend to nest together! :)"

Get a new nest - become a new bird!

You got nowhere to go but up! :melodramatic:

Alan

[Mick Wenlock]

Based on what I have read, that is exactly what disconnection is, mate.



No it's not, "mate". Though the fact tht you think it is , is kind of bizarre.

Were you planning an non-enturbuation order to go along with thi little program as well?



Any tool can be misused.


any piece of mumbo jumbo dreck can be described as a "tool".




If you don't believe it I can hit you in the head with a wrench, Jettero Heller style.

pack a lunch, thats an all day job you are taking on.

[Mick Wenlock]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.



I presume that you are a scientologist?



2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)


Have you considered the option of calling the police?



3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)


Not sure what your point is with the 'motivator' rubbish. But the fact that they both seem happy to cheat on each other is germane



4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)


Hmm - again, why no police calls? Spousal abuse is taken pretty seriously in most states.



5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)


well maybe you could buy him a very fast motorcycle?



6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

given your description of the husband I would have though this would be a plus.



7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])


and what did you do about it?



8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)


Understandable.



Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?


How about phoning social services or the police? You have someone, according to you, who takes drugs, brandishes a gun and beats his wife.



Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?


THIS is what you propose to do? Jesus Christ, you describe sharing a house with a drug addled, wife beating psychotic waving firearms, your wife and child constantly exposed to the possibility that this person will go over the edge and your solution is to huddle in your room and practice some Hubbardian voodoo? Gimme a break.



Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.


ah, the point of the posting I reckon.



And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

well if disconnection 'works' then why not just have the cofs issue a disconnection order? Why not have them declare the guy?


Here's my suggestions:

a) Go to your local org and ask one of the OTs there to just force them to leave!

b) Or failing that - grow some hair and be a real person and report the guy to the police.

c) However if you don't believe that "OT"s can do something that simple and easy (not much to look forward to up there on the OT levels eh?) and you seem afraid of the guy, you can just practice your little "mwh" phenomena and pretend like you are doing something.

[olska]

<snip> well maybe you could buy him a very fast motorcycle?

:lol: :lol: (Good thing the coffee wasn't brewed yet!)


Here's my suggestions:
a) Go to your local org and ask one of the OTs there to just force them to leave!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
and report back to us on what happened, ok?

(this has to be one of the most entertaining threads we've had in awhile...)

[Little Bear Victor]

To properly disconnect from you neighbor, Scientology-style, there is much more work to be done:

You will have to start by introducing your neighbor to Dianetics and how it can help him resolve the problem of that is his wife and child (find the ruin, which is obvious in this case; but don't evaluate for him, it'll ruin the impression he had a cognition). Explain to him that iot is his reactive mind that is causing all this trouble, not him.

Then you get him in a Dianetics session and give him wins (run the incident when the wife hit him with a frying pan trying to escape the apartment or something really real).

Then you will have to get him to agree, gradiently to some Scientology principles that are real to him (like he will be all-powerful and can do anything he wants once OT).

Okay, bit by bit get him into the stage that he will have to take some responsibility for the situation and BANG! you got him!

Then sec check on the 2nd dynamic. Pull out every single discreditable act you can get your hands on, real or imaginary. Make sure he understands this is all totally confidential, between himself and the auditor and nobody else.

Once you got enough data to wipe him out of your life, declare the motherfucker! (You should have, by this time "evidence" that he is one) Force him to disconnect from the rest of the family, never to communicate to them again. Force him out of the house, his job, town, country or preferably the planet or the universe.

Then issue to the neighbors, to his friends and relatives, to his employer, and potential employees detailed descriptions of his sexual deviations. PROVE that he is a sexual pervert to end all sexual perverts.

If he disagrees with this treatment, SUE him, not to win the suit but to destroy him personally and financially, to drive him into apathy and ruin.

Put up a website to ensure NO ONE will ever listen to him or help him again.

Send out fliers, leaflets, poster and even magazines dealing with his personal life and secrets.

Then you will have applied some part of the standard disconnection procedure.

Don't skimp on it.

Handle the hell out of it.

[Beef Terminal]

Some none-scio advice: "Birds of a feather flock together! - They also tend to nest together! :)"

Get a new nest - become a new bird!

You got nowhere to go but up! :melodramatic:

Alan

Oh, we are just here due to a familial connection and a mis-representation of the "scene", not because we "have so much in common".

But, yes, it is true that there is nowhere to go but up re: our living quarters.

[Beef Terminal]

Veda, after a further perusing of your posts, it seems you feel very betrayed and hurt by Scientology, the Church of Scientology, OSA, RTC, the SO, the CMO and L. Ron Hubbard. (and probably some others)

Scientology can help you with that, mate!

And if I hit you in the head with that wrench, be sure you blame the wrench.

[RamsBlue]

I think Mick squared it away nicely.

There are pretty good social "saftey nets" established in this country. Avail yourself of them and live happily ever after.

Also, as pointed out througout the thread, your comment on disconnection is quite different then disconnection as practiced in scn. Sure, there are cases where there is an actual raving lunatic connected to a person and it makes sense to disconnect from them. Just like in the "wog world". However, the reality in scn is that most disconnections are either a) forced by the policy of sp/pts tech, or b) encouraged strongly by the organization when there is a troublesome family member/friend on the paying customers lines.

The latter is the most common and I'm a recent victim of it myself. A very close friend of 30+ years was told to disconnect from me because of my opinions on church management. This, despite the fact that I have helped this friend through some pretty rough times in his life and been extremely supportive of him. Sadly, he caved and we haven't spoken in a couple months now. It's one of the reasons that I have gotten vocal again after 10 years of keeping quiet.

[Beef Terminal]

I think Mick squared it away nicely.

There are pretty good social "saftey nets" established in this country. Avail yourself of them and live happily ever after.

Also, as pointed out througout the thread, your comment on disconnection is quite different then disconnection as practiced in scn. Sure, there are cases where there is an actual raving lunatic connected to a person and it makes sense to disconnect from them. Just like in the "wog world". However, the reality in scn is that most disconnections are either a) forced by the policy of sp/pts tech, or b) encouraged strongly by the organization when there is a troublesome family member/friend on the paying customers lines.

The latter is the most common and I'm a recent victim of it myself. A very close friend of 30+ years was told to disconnect from me because of my opinions on church management. This, despite the fact that I have helped this friend through some pretty rough times in his life and been extremely supportive of him. Sadly, he caved and we haven't spoken in a couple months now. It's one of the reasons that I have gotten vocal again after 10 years of keeping quiet.


I agree and understand. Anything can be mis-used by unethical people who have undue influence on a person.

[Veda]

Veda, after a further perusing of your posts, it seems you feel very betrayed and hurt by Scientology, the Church of Scientology, OSA, RTC, the SO, the CMO and L. Ron Hubbard. (and probably some others)

Scientology can help you with that, mate!

And if I hit you in the head with that wrench, be sure you blame the wrench.

I was lucky, and wasn't harmed by Scientology; however, many others have been harmed, and in various ways violated and abused.

Is it really such an alien notion to you that someone might care about others or have a social conscience?

If you're so interested in my posts, or what I think, suggest that you read the posts in the 'Web Sites and Links section." The "Scientology Onion" post, in that section, contains links to some of my posts, and to some informative threads; and the 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels' link contains much documented information, plus reflects my views on the topic of Scientology. Frankly, I doubt if you could even make it through the Table of Contents of 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'. I really don't think that you're here to learn.

A bit of advice - cool it on the statements about hitting people over the head with a wrench. Such statements make you appear emotionally disturbed.

[Voltaire's Child]

The term "disconnection" in any Scn context calls to mind paranoia about SPs and having CofS intervene and wipe your butt for you.

I wouldn't use that term if I were in a situation where I decided that association with another person was not a good idea because of that.

I know someone who disconnected from a parent (and, no, it's nobody on the internet with whom I've had dealings- this is someone I've known IRL for many years) while a Scn'ist but all the other non Scn'ist siblings also had done. The parent was quite toxic. One child (now an adult and a grandmother herself) gave him more chances than any other sibling had done.

So she and two other family members drove all the way across the continent to see this asshole, at his invitation. They got there, he bade them welcome, showed them where they could sleep, freshen up, etc.

Then that night-while they were sleeping- he called the cops on them.

She told me this and I said "are you really surprised?".

Others in the family including the Scn'ist had figured out this guy was poison (well, in all fairness, so had this lady but she is a sweet soft hearted loyal woman) and dumped him. But not one of them- not the Scn'ist-not any of them- uses the term "disconnected". CofS was never involved.

Mick's commentary seems quite spot on and intelligent as usual, I am not trying to take away from any of the points he made.

I would just add that "disconnection" is more a church thing. It's more a totalitarian somebody told you what to do thing, then what you're talking about or what my friend experienced.

"Disconnection" is an innately problematic and abusive church policy that is used to maneuver and destroy people by a very mean cult. It should never be encouraged. Even if someone were to dig up "disconnections" in CofS where someone really was a shithead...still, the idea that this group can tell people who to talk to is just plain wrong. I don't care who's involved.

Dealing with a bad situation and some fucked up people is nothing like that.

And if criminal behavior is going on, people should consider contacting law enforcement, filing charges, etc.

[Voltaire's Child]

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

I don't think anybody would frown on dumping toxic roommates.

They would frown, however, on it being attributed to CofS or something of the sort.

[Alanzo]

Yo, BT -

Moving out from roomates is nothing like having OSA call and threaten your family, or being disconnected from your parents since you were 8.

If you are trying to compare the two, in order to hide the actions of your Church and your leader Davey from scrutiny, for prosecution for kidnapping, then you can rot in jail with the rest of your cronies - for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Make sense to you yet?

Or are you still having trouble with this?

[Beef Terminal]

Yo, BT -

Moving out from roomates is nothing like having OSA call and threaten your family, or being disconnected from your parents since you were 8.

If you are trying to compare the two, in order to hide the actions of your Church and your leader Davey from scrutiny, for prosecution for kidnapping, then you can rot in jail with the rest of your cronies - for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Make sense to you yet?

Or are you still having trouble with this?


I think a couple of ye are having problems...hence the BT bashing which has ensued.

"Disconnect: To sever or interrupt the connection of or between."

Nothing wrong with it, if it be self-determined and with a fortnight's consideration.

[Alanzo]

I think a couple of ye are having problems...hence the BT bashing which has ensued.

"Disconnect: To sever or interrupt the connection of or between."

Nothing wrong with it, if it be self-determined and with a fortnight's consideration.

I don't think you read what I said.

Because your reasoning powers don't seem to let you make the distinction between what you are saying and what everyone else has been saying.

Sanity is the ability to distinguish differences, similarities and identities.

And pushing altered importance, such as comparing moving out from roommates to being forcibly disconnected from your parents since you were 8, is usually the attempt to hide something, as L Ron Hubbard taught in the Data Series.

Why do you alter your own beliefs in order to operate on an Internet message board?

Think about it...

[Beef Terminal]

I don't think you read what I said.

Because your reasoning powers don't seem to let you make the distinction between what you are saying and what everyone else has been saying.

Come on, VedAlanzO you are self-admittedly smarter than this pitiful display you are giving. Open a copy of FoT and turn on the lights, man!


Sanity is the ability to distinguish differences, similarities and identities.

Is it? Or are you just quoting L. Ron Hubbard? Or is it possibly, just maybe workable or true...even though L. Ron Hubbard said it?


And pushing altered importance, such as comparing moving out from roommates to being forcibly disconnected from your parents since you were 8, is usually the attempt to hide something, as L Ron Hubbard taught in the Data Series.

Did I make that comparison?

If you read back carefully, someone else made the comparison if the first couple of posts. That person I have the strange "feeling" is you operating under dual accounts. But that's just the "feeling" I get.

In looking over posting history, you "two" sure seem to "pop up" at strikingly similar times, with strikingly similar messages (different delivery, of course).

I simply said it was disconnection. Any tool may be mis-used, mate. From now on, criminals don't go to jail...only the weapons they used to break in, rob, murder with will be incarcerated to the full extent of the law. Maybe even executed.

Disconnection is disconnection, mate. A spanner is a spanner. All can be used in numerous ways in which they were not originally intended.


Why do you alter your own beliefs in order to operate on an Internet message board?

Why do you assume that I am engaging in the alteration of my beliefs to operate on an internet message board. This presumes that you know me (which you Clear-ly do not)...and, while expected, I find it patently hilarious.


Think about it...

You think about it. I didn't.

[Alanzo]

You think about it. I didn't.

I know.

Because you can't.

If you did - you would not be doing what you are doing.

I did what you are doing now. I defended Scientology, much more overtly than you are. I realized, after a while, that it was untenable. Just like you feel it is too, from time to time.

I felt that, too.

But I had a need to still belong. I had invested so much, as you have done, too.

I understand.

See, I have thought about it.

I really have.

A lot.

But I think you know that.

[Beef Terminal]

I know.

Because you can't.

If you did - you would not be doing what you are doing.

I did what you are doing now. I defended Scientology, much more overtly than you are. I realized, after a while, that it was untenable. Just like you feel it is too, from time to time.

I felt that, too.

But I had a need to still belong. I had invested so much, as you have done, too.

I understand.

See, I have thought about it.

I really have.

A lot.

But I think you know that.


QUICK, BEFORE ANYONE ELSE NOTICES!!! IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAID AND DIVERT TO SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS TOTALLY OFF TOPIC!!!

[Krysti]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

This is an unbelievable post. If you are really in a situation like this, YOU could and SHOULD be put away for child endangerment.

Comparing this situation to a CofS enforced disconnection, that is based on someone disagreeing with the church, is just plain ignorant. If you can't see that for yourself, then you need more help than just getting out of the situation you are (?) currently in.

Krysti

[programmer_guy]

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?


Your problem is not "missed withholds". It's much bigger than that.

It sounds like you are dealing with one or more criminal personalities in your household. Therefore, get out as soon as possible. And take any children with you. If you don't do this then people may think that YOU are also part of the problem.

[Vinaire]

I agree and understand. Anything can be mis-used by unethical people who have undue influence on a person.

Then there seems to be a lot of unethical people in COS starting from the very top.

.

[Emma]

Vinny,

Why have you been so quiet recently?

[Vinaire]

Vinny,

Why have you been so quiet recently?

I am busy with my math stuff. I am finishing off the Chapter 8 on FRACTIONS.

.

[Beef Terminal]

This is an unbelievable post. If you are really in a situation like this, YOU could and SHOULD be put away for child endangerment.

Krysti

That's hilarious. Because I live in a house with my crazy sister-in law, her crazy drug riddled husband and neglected son, I should be "put away"? What about my wife and our child? Should they be "put away" too for living in a place that was grossly mis-represented before we moved in?

Krysti, please explain how another family's failing dynamics have anything to do with tearing apart my beautiful and theta family.

What planet do you live on? Clearly one with an insane individual who calls herself "Krysti."

[Voltaire's Child]

Beef Terminal,

I'm sorry you're getting flak on all this.

But,flak aside,I think everyone's agreed that you should get out of there. You said it yourself.

[Zinjifar]

Beef Terminal,

I'm sorry you're getting flak on all this.

But,flak aside,I think everyone's agreed that you should get out of there. You said it yourself.

Oh, for christ sake. Beef's here to *cause* flak, whether against 'him' or others. His quandry is, as he puts it *himself*, 'hypothetical'.

Even if it were real, where would the Scientology flavor 'responsibility for his own condition' be? According to him, he *can't* move and he *can't* do anything to solve his problem.

All he really wants to do is distract from and obscure the very *real* (not hypothetical) evil of enforced Scientology Disconnection and create an equivalence with his own ludicrous Jerry Springer fantasies.

Zinj

[Beef Terminal]

Oh, for christ sake. Beef's here to *cause* flak, whether against 'him' or others. His quandry is, as he puts it *himself*, 'hypothetical'.

Even if it were real, where would the Scientology flavor 'responsibility for his own condition' be? According to him, he *can't* move and he *can't* do anything to solve his problem.

All he really wants to do is distract from and obscure the very *real* (not hypothetical) evil of enforced Scientology Disconnection and create an equivalence with his own ludicrous Jerry Springer fantasies.

Zinj

Zinjifar,

If you really read what was stated, you would see that "at the moment" we are unable to move out.

Causative and responsible are gradients and we are doing so as much as we can on the gradient we can.

But then, the above post is just another way for Zinjifar to attempt to invalidate Scientology and people who he thinks are Scientologists (but then, Zinjifar has proven conclusively that he doesn't know his asshole from his elbow in several, if not all, of his posts).

You also give my post more credit and power than it has, mate.

Disconnecting is an OK thing to do if the situation warrants it. Being forced to disconnect is probably not an OK thing to do.

Not really very "masterful" now are you?

And thanks Fluffy, we are out at the earliest opportunity. There is a delicate balance currently ongoing where I don't leave my family alone with that individual and some of the people he brings over to the house...whom Zinjifar and VedAlanzO would probably be proud to call friends.

[Div6]

BT,

What can I say? We like to play with our food. I hear you...if there is anything we can do to accelerate your relocation, let us know. Sometimes we take "having a safe environment" for granted.

[The Oracle]

Data:

1. Have married non-Scientologist housemates with one child.

2. The husband is consistently on various types of drugs. (coke, weed, and others I'm not sure of + psychiatric drug background as pre-teen/teen lasting for several years)

3. The wife recently cheated on the husband (after less than 2 months of official marriage) with the husband's "best friend." (the husband also flip-flopped for a couple of years with a drug-crazed stripper, who he now hangs out with again after receiving his recent motivator of a cheating wife)

4. Since she "came clean" husband beats her occasionally. (loud slaps, gun brandishing, threats, verbal insults, and other demeaning/insulting treatments which we occasionally hear)

5. Both are "accident prone". The husband more so than the wife. (general wreckage of things (and people) in the environment)

6. Husband all but ignores his 2 year old child.

7. Husband expresses (not knowing (or maybe not caring) that we can hear him) my family's inability to "raise a child". (i.e. "their kid is going to be so fucked up because they don't let her go anywhere or talk to anyone" see next entry [and yes, that was a direct quote and generalization])

8. Husband graphically discusses various things (such as women killed in "donkey shows", murders, beating up "niggers", etc., etc.) around his child as well as anyone else in the area...(hence #7 where we never allow our child to be around this individual unsupervised)

Aside from them moving out, or ourselves moving out, which is, sadly, not feasible at the present time, what advice do you have?

Based on the premise that an individual in such a state is really "trying to die" and take others with him/her, would it be acceptable to utilize "missed withhold phenomena" (and "missed missed withhold") to get the person to blow themselves off?

Any other advice would be quite welcome. We are moving out at the earliest opportunity and "disconnecting" from this particular "family" even though disconnection is frowned upon by certain people.

And to those of you who think disconnection is a bad thing, if you want to chat with this family after we move out, I can set up a meeting so you guys can talk.

Trust me, nothing could be worse than the in law situation I found myself in.
Family madness can be overwhelming.
You are confronted by chaos, and you have to start putting in order anyway you can. It will just make you feel better.
I wouldn't get into critisizing the people or making them wrong.
I would start with the child.
Just decide where you can help.
Take the child out of the house when you can for walks, or any pleasure moment you can afford the child.
Run a bath for the child, read the child a book, take it in the kitchen and let it help with some cooking chore but make it fun.
Basically you will be bypassing the people in the charge with the one hat they will hold dearest or most important to them.
Do a junior danger formula.
This will start to make a difference.
If you don't have the formula I will post it for you.
Remember small gradients lead to big changes.

Best,

T.I.

[The Oracle]

By the way, disconnection is not a bad thing.
There are many books written on toxic people and they are generally avoided.

I don't know that I would disconnect from the child though. That would be an injustice if the child hasn't harmed you, and maybe you will be the one beam of hope and pleasure in that child's life.

After ten years of slimy 1.1 sabatoge, injustice, and suppression I finally tossed my mother in law out on the street on her ass. Not that she was living with us, she was just visiting. It saved my sanity, and my marriage, and because I did, my children have a father living in the house and the father is getting auditing now by a class 9 and is recovering well from an early lifetime of trauma.

But if you are guests in someone elses home and they are contributing to your survival they have rights.

The most key thing I ever read by Hubbard that really made a huge difference in my life was: "Anything you depend on, you become the effect of".

So it is best if you do have a plan to sever your dependence on these people.

You may find that once you move out, they don't even bother you any more.

Anyway, anything you can do to be cause over them is better than being effect of them.

And since it sounds like they are in danger the best thing you can do is to start bypassing them and handleing the situation and any danger in it.

And right now it sounds like the child could use a helping hand.

The parents will notice they are being bypassed and this will make them aware that they are in a danger situation.

Best,

T.I.

[duddins]

I think that there are many good things to be said about disconnections, under some circumstances. While dealing with an alcoholism, AA calls it detachment.

In other words, don't contribute to the insanity. Don't get drawn in, be an enabler. Walk away.

But, there is an obligation that is being overlooked. Wife beating and child abuse are not casual subjects, but serious crimes.

How could one be witness to a crime and not be in some way an accessory.
Albeit an unwilling one.

The only true obligation you have is to protect the child.

If there is violence in the home, there must be someone willing to step up on behalf of the child. You as a loving parent in a 'theta' relationship should be well aware of this.

I just dont get all of the 'what would Scientologist would do?' talk.

What would a human being do if they saw a wife being beat and a child neglected by a drug addict?

Call the cops!

[Veda]

BT,

What can I say? We like to play with our food. I hear you...if there is anything we can do to accelerate your relocation, let us know. Sometimes we take "having a safe environment" for granted.

This is a footnote:

"Having a safe environment" is a good idea, but the wording is used, by Scientology, in a sneaky way.

"Having a safe environment" is only part of the sentence. The complete sentence is, "Having a safe environment for Scientology to expand into." And that means, per L. Ron Hubbard, removing (or nullifying) "anti-Scientology counter-Intention" and "other intention."

Those who wish to examine this aspect of Scientology further may consult Hubbard's "battle tactics" tech, and "dirty tricks" tech, on how to make such a "safe environment" when dealing with "anti-Scientologists," "squirrels," Ex-Scientologists who speak out publicly, etc.

End of footnote.

This thread may now return to the regularly scheduled silliness.

[The Oracle]

I think that there are many good things to be said about disconnections, under some circumstances. While dealing with an alcoholism, AA calls it detachment.

In other words, don't contribute to the insanity. Don't get drawn in, be an enabler. Walk away.

But, there is an obligation that is being overlooked. Wife beating and child abuse are not casual subjects, but serious crimes.

How could one be witness to a crime and not be in some way an accessory.
Albeit an unwilling one.

The only true obligation you have is to protect the child.

If there is violence in the home, there must be someone willing to step up on behalf of the child. You as a loving parent in a 'theta' relationship should be well aware of this.

I just dont get all of the 'what would Scientologist would do?' talk.

What would a human being do if they saw a wife being beat and a child neglected by a drug addict?

Call the cops!

Call the cops?

Why not handle it yourself?

Why call in someone else?

What happens if the child ends up in a foster home?

You think the child wants to live with that?

You think the child wants to think with the fact that cops were called in because of him?

You have a solution here, but I don't know if it is the optimum one.

The least optimum would be the child removed from his family and parents, unless he was getting hurt, which isn't implied here.

A child loosing his mother is not the best solution, if the mother is not harming the child.

If she is allowing herself to get hit she has some agreement with it, but there are worse things.

The child will get sick in an enturbulative environment with parents fighting though.

But there are better solutions than bringing in the government.

Why should the poster here be the one to have that obligation put on her / him?

It's an "others to others" flow and if this is the family/marriage those people mocked up, they have a right to create it even if it isn't what is acceptable in your book.

He / she has every right to allow them to get on with their invention and not interfere or have the burden on them to call the police in and have that child put in a foster home.

Besides that, people need to learn to confront and handle their envornment and the dangers in it on their own two feet and leave the 911 calls to actual events beyond their control.

I think the presence of police and government makes people think they can pass the buck with ease.

A person who can care about the people in front of them will be the best influence on this family, not a local cop.

T.I.

[Beef Terminal]

Trust me, nothing could be worse than the in law situation I found myself in.
Family madness can be overwhelming.
You are confronted by chaos, and you have to start putting in order anyway you can. It will just make you feel better.
I wouldn't get into critisizing the people or making them wrong.
I would start with the child.
Just decide where you can help.
Take the child out of the house when you can for walks, or any pleasure moment you can afford the child.
Run a bath for the child, read the child a book, take it in the kitchen and let it help with some cooking chore but make it fun.
Basically you will be bypassing the people in the charge with the one hat they will hold dearest or most important to them.
Do a junior danger formula.
This will start to make a difference.
If you don't have the formula I will post it for you.
Remember small gradients lead to big changes.

Best,

T.I.

T.I.

Thanks for the thoughtful posts.

My wife's "job", in exchange for rent, is to take care of their little one, which she does 7 days a week and in a superlative manner. They have even asked us to adopt him since the mother (my sister-in-law) even said "we don't want him." Although we can ascertain that fact from the parent's actions.

The kid is constantly and continually ignored, unless he is being yelled at (I have some audio recordings (the donkey show, invalidating my family, yelling), or when the dad puts on a feigned affection show for my wife and I, which last about 20 seconds out of each day and consists of "I love you, son." before he runs out to snort some coke, smoke some weed, and hang out with his "friends" mentioned in the first post.

I appreciate the posts which didn't instantly try to attack me for expressing my viewpoint and it does help to talk about this stuff and get some other views on it from people who aren't as immersed in it as I am.

As soon as I start work again, we will be out and as far away from this entheta mad-house as possible.

My main goal is getting out of here, but while we are here, the goal is keeping my family safe in this dangerous environment.

Peace.

[The Oracle]

The typical danger handleing in the USA of A these days is: "notify the authorities".

That's the extent of a danger handleing.

When did we, the citizens, stop being "the authorities"?

We get the idea since we pay taxes we ought to call in other people to handle danger situations for us.

It's self demeaning.

T.I.

[The Oracle]

T.I.

Thanks for the thoughtful posts.

My wife's "job", in exchange for rent, is to take care of their little one, which she does 7 days a week and in a superlative manner. They have even asked us to adopt him since the mother (my sister-in-law) even said "we don't want him." Although we can ascertain that fact from the parent's actions.

The kid is constantly and continually ignored, unless he is being yelled at (I have some audio recordings (the donkey show, invalidating my family, yelling), or when the dad puts on a feigned affection show for my wife and I, which last about 20 seconds out of each day and consists of "I love you, son." before he runs out to snort some coke, smoke some weed, and hang out with his "friends" mentioned in the first post.

I appreciate the posts which didn't instantly try to attack me for expressing my viewpoint and it does help to talk about this stuff and get some other views on it from people who aren't as immersed in it as I am.

As soon as I start work again, we will be out and as far away from this entheta mad-house as possible.

My main goal is getting out of here, but while we are here, the goal is keeping my family safe in this dangerous environment.

Peace.

I was raised with achoholics and drug addicts, in foster homes too, saw it all including wife beatings and one murder.

It's just randomity.

Drama goes on everywhere.

Sometimes it is healthy to be wholly ignored, it was in my case.

If the kid sees the result of the actions around him he will be better for knowing it.

His dad could be worse.

Sounds like the kid has a lot of freedom, and after all he pulled in you and your wife.

Look at plus points. There are many I see already.

People on drugs or upset say things they don't mean all the time too.

Sounds like your wife has already been bypassing for a long time.

I actually loved the way I grew up. I got to spend a lot of time in bars starting at around 6.

Taught me how to be a real social animal.

It will all be O.K..

Try to find things you can admire about your housemates.

T.I.

[duddins]

Call the cops?

Why not handle it yourself?

Why call in someone else?

What happens if the child ends up in a foster home?

You think the child wants to live with that?

You think the child wants to think with the fact that cops were called in because of him?

You have a solution here, but I don't know if it is the optimum one.

The least optimum would be the child removed from his family and parents, unless he was getting hurt, which isn't implied here.

A child loosing his mother is not the best solution, if the mother is not harming the child.

If she is allowing herself to get hit she has some agreement with it, but there are worse things.

The child will get sick in an enturbulative environment with parents fighting though.

But there are better solutions than bringing in the government.

Why should the poster here be the one to have that obligation put on her / him?

It's an "others to others" flow and if this is the family/marriage those people mocked up, they have a right to create it even if it isn't what is acceptable in your book.

He / she has every right to allow them to get on with their invention and not interfere or have the burden on them to call the police in and have that child put in a foster home.

Besides that, people need to learn to confront and handle their envornment and the dangers in it on their own two feet and leave the 911 calls to actual events beyond their control.

I think the presence of police and government makes people think they can pass the buck with ease.

A person who can care about the people in front of them will be the best influence on this family, not a local cop.

T.I.

I am so sorry to differ TI....I usually don't get into out and out opposition...but get real. Beef is not going to be able to "handle" that guys drug addiction. If he is dealing with semi rational people he may be able to help them see the face of reason, but and that is a big but......

When dealing with drug addiction. that is a fairy tale.

It would be nice to be able to "handle" things in this way.

Reality with substance abuse is different. I am speaking from the voice of experience. The drugs and the addict rule that household.

In my own home, I had to just break it off and get the kids away from it. Far away. That was the only way to break the chain.

Had I dumped the "I'm the Scientologist! I can handle this" bullshit, my kids would have had one less year of the exposure to abuse.

The mother has a choice...she calls the shots for herself. She has no right to drag the child down with her. She has options within the system, to do the right thing for her child. If she were a responsible parent......she would take the child to a caring facility designed to help abused women get on their own two feet, or she would walk.

Beef could work on her for years.....to convince her. But she wont leave him for the benefit of her child, until she is ready to do so. Sometimes that takes some ugly shit....

Have you been watching too much Lifetime television????? Foster homes are not all bad and they are not perminent. Beef has the choice of being a foster parent to the child as well. It is not all us against them.......

Yes, the "establishment" is far from perfect. But in a life threatening situation LRH tech is not going to save the day. A paramedic may.

[The Oracle]

I am so sorry to differ TI....I usually don't get into out and out opposition...but get real. Beef is not going to be able to "handle" that guys drug addiction. If he is dealing with semi rational people he may be able to help them see the face of reason, but and that is a big but......

When dealing with drug addiction. that is a fairy tale.

It would be nice to be able to "handle" things in this way.

Reality with substance abuse is different. I am speaking from the voice of experience. The drugs and the addict rule that household.

In my own home, I had to just break it off and get the kids away from it. Far away. That was the only way to break the chain.

Had I dumped the "I'm the Scientologist! I can handle this" bullshit, my kids would have had one less year of the exposure to abuse.

The mother has a choice...she calls the shots for herself. She has no right to drag the child down with her. She has options within the system, to do the right thing for her child. If she were a responsible parent......she would take the child to a caring facility designed to help abused women get on their own two feet, or she would walk.

Beef could work on her for years.....to convince her. But she wont leave him for the benefit of her child, until she is ready to do so. Sometimes that takes some ugly shit....

Have you been watching too much Lifetime television????? Foster homes are not all bad and they are not perminent. Beef has the choice of being a foster parent to the child as well. It is not all us against them.......

Yes, the "establishment" is far from perfect. But in a life threatening situation LRH tech is not going to save the day. A paramedic may.

Hey, the Dad is there right?

He hasn't abandonded the child.

He is obviously providing for the child and even the child's relatives until they get on their feet.

I grew up in foster homes I know all about them.

I also grew up in circumstances where people took care of their own problems without involving the police. And trust me they were not Scientologists. This has nothing to do with Scientology. Plenty of people can handle the environment without calling in the police.

What has destroyed the Church is all the police hats.

The truth is if you have called the police you have asked someone already to bypass you because you couldn't confront or handle something.

Not that you shouldn't call the police if you can't yourself.

But for crying out loud this guy is a guest in someone's home because he is being bypassed himself and he's supposed to call the police on his host?

Let's get real here.

T.I.

[The Oracle]

Hey, the Dad is there right?

He hasn't abandonded the child.

He is obviously providing for the child and even the child's relatives until they get on their feet.

I grew up in foster homes I know all about them.

I also grew up in circumstances where people took care of their own problems without involving the police. And trust me they were not Scientologists. This has nothing to do with Scientology. Plenty of people can handle the environment without calling in the police.

What has destroyed the Church is all the police hats.

The truth is if you have called the police you have asked someone already to bypass you because you couldn't confront or handle something.

Not that you shouldn't call the police if you can't yourself.

But for crying out loud this guy is a guest in someone's home because he is being bypassed himself and he's supposed to call the police on his host?

Let's get real here.

T.I.

Furthermore I have handled drug addicts without the police or rehab.

I had a drunken druggy cousin who tore through my family for 15 years causing all sorts of damage, almost drove her parents into bankrupcy with legal biils, hospital bills, rehab, new cars, raising the children she abandonded. One week I went to visit and she took me to a bar. On the way home she drunkenly stopped the car in a busy intersection and I almost got hit by a Mack truck sideways. I went to the drivers side of the car and pulled her out and beat the shit out of her. She looked like the Mack truck had actually hit her. She checked into AA the next day and hasn't had a drink in fifteen years. I'm her last daughter's godmother.

I had a heroin addict do the doubt formula and decide he didn't want to be a heroin addict and he's been clean for 14 years.

T.I.

T.I.

[Div6]

This is a footnote:

"Having a safe environment" is a good idea, but the wording is used, by Scientology, in a sneaky way.

"Having a safe environment" is only part of the sentence. The complete sentence is, "Having a safe environment for Scientology to expand into." And that means, per L. Ron Hubbard, removing (or nullifying) "anti-Scientology counter-Intention" and "other intention."

Those who wish to examine this aspect of Scientology further may consult Hubbard's "battle tactics" tech, and "dirty tricks" tech, on how to make such a "safe environment" when dealing with "anti-Scientologists," "squirrels," Ex-Scientologists who speak out publicly, etc.

End of footnote.

This thread may now return to the regularly scheduled silliness.

See? Even I get words put into my mouth that "I" did not intend. Treated like some kind of damn billboard or something, so some juvenile can spraypaint their graffitti. :angry: :angry:

Hey Veda...start your own damn threads. I dont like playing "host" to your parasitical views. :grouch: :grouch: :grouch:

Thanks.

I'm sure you inderstand.

[Beef Terminal]

See? Even I get words put into my mouth that "I" did not intend. Treated like some kind of damn billboard or something, so some juvenile can spraypaint their graffitti. :angry: :angry:

Hey Veda...start your own damn threads. I dont like playing "host" to your parasitical views. :grouch: :grouch: :grouch:

Thanks.

I'm sure you inderstand.

He probably cries himself to sleep at night about "how Scientology betrayed him."

Then wakes up to a fresh new day of trying to invalidate and denigrate (have you noticed that is ALL he does?).

He just needs to get off some O/W (mainly those missed ones) and move on with his life.

[Div6]

He probably cries himself to sleep at night about "how Scientology betrayed him."

Then wakes up to a fresh new day of trying to invalidate and denigrate (have you noticed that is ALL he does?).

He just needs to get off some O/W (mainly those missed ones) and move on with his life.

You can't audit a ser fac in the "usual" ways. It is an art unto itself.

[Veda]

See? Even I get words put into my mouth that "I" did not intend. Treated like some kind of damn billboard or something, so some juvenile can spraypaint their graffitti. :angry: :angry:

Hey Veda...start your own damn threads. I dont like playing "host" to your parasitical views. :grouch: :grouch: :grouch:

Thanks.

I'm sure you inderstand.

I was concerned that you'd take it the wrong way.

I was describing Scientology, not you.

I don't think you're being sneaky (or for that matter, silly). However, when using the phrase, "a safe environment" to a $cientologist - such as Beef Terminal - it's worth providing information that allows him to fully understand the original and full meaning of the (complete) sentence, in $cientology.

That's all.

And it was only a footnote.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Dulloldfart]

Then wakes up to a fresh new day of trying to invalidate and denigrate (have you noticed that is ALL he does?).


Not so. Read some more.

Paul

[Div6]

I was concerned that you'd take it the wrong way.

I was describing Scientology, not you.

I don't think you're being sneaky (or for that matter, silly). However, when using the phrase, "a safe environment" to a $cientologist - such as Beef Terminal - it's worth providing information that allows him to fully understand the original and full meaning of the (complete) sentence, in $cientology.

That's all.

And it was only a footnote.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I was upset because it appeared to me you were curving what I thought was a helpful communication into something else entirely....per your own agenda.
I have no idea where BT stands as regards "scn". He came here and started discussing his PT problem, and was immediately attacked, prodded, poked etc.
We had an earlier thread with "Concerned Wife" where it was sufficiently derailed (and she was personally attacked) that she has not posted again.

I want to "help" people. If the acceptance level of the person recieving the help is facilitated by using Scn words, concepts or procedures then that is what I will use. My real concern is to not drive people away with "noise".

You savvy?

In the future, if you want to inject your ongoing "propaganda by redfinition of words" campaign into a thread, please do not ride on my coattails. Just inject it. Or don't.

Thanks.

(And I am not attacking you or your message. In this one case, just the method.)

Peace.

[olska]

He probably cries himself to sleep at night about "how Scientology betrayed him."

Then wakes up to a fresh new day of trying to invalidate and denigrate (have you noticed that is ALL he does?).

He just needs to get off some O/W (mainly those missed ones) and move on with his life.

For someone who is out of work, dependent on relatives for a place to live, and apparently unable to provide a "safe space" for his own wife and child, you seem awfully concerned about a stranger's "O/Ws" and that stranger's need to "move on with his life."

After reading most of your posts, my questions are:

Why are you spending your time posting derogatory remarks about ex-scientologists on an internet message board instead of taking care of business and your family in real life? Are there no jobs or business opportunities, no hotels, motels, or apartments for rent in the area where you live?

[Veda]

I was upset because it appeared to me you were curving what I thought was a helpful communication into something else entirely....per your own agenda.
I have no idea where BT stands as regards "scn". He came here and started discussing his PT problem, and was immediately attacked, prodded, poked etc.
We had an earlier thread with "Concerned Wife" where it was sufficiently derailed (and she was personally attacked) that she has not posted again.

I want to "help" people. If the acceptance level of the person recieving the help is facilitated by using Scn words, concepts or procedures then that is what I will use. My real concern is to not drive people away with "noise".

You savvy?

In the future, if you want to inject your ongoing "propaganda by redfinition of words" campaign into a thread, please do not ride on my coattails. Just inject it. Or don't.

Thanks.

(And I am not attacking you or your message. In this one case, just the method.)

Peace.

Oh, it was only a footnote with a clarification, following.

"Concerned wife" appeared to have been sincere. Beef Terminal is just game-playing.

And he's receiving plenty of advice for his "hypothetical" situation.

Look at his earlier posts. Notice the slimy attacks on people such as Pooks.

His initial attempt (on this thread) to equate Cult imposed and enforced Disconnection, with the ordinary common-sense freedom to choose ones associates, and his tale about his "situation," do not make those earlier posts irrelevant.

I would like to help Beef Terminal with *real* issues, and have already provided some recommended reading.

But, at this stage of his participation in ESMB, I don't think BT is here to learn, but to create effects similar to the ones witnessed in his other posts, and to propagandize and, if possible, create confusion and waste people's time.

[Beef Terminal]

For someone who is out of work, dependent on relatives for a place to live, and apparently unable to provide a "safe space" for his own wife and child, you seem awfully concerned about a stranger's "O/Ws" and that stranger's need to "move on with his life."

After reading most of your posts, my questions are:

Why are you spending your time posting derogatory remarks about ex-scientologists on an internet message board instead of taking care of business and your family in real life? Are there no jobs or business opportunities, no hotels, motels, or apartments for rent in the area where you live?


I'm only concerned about it when the individual starts making false accusations about me and only to the extent of showing them up for the falsities that they are.

Currently Unemployed: Yes.

Dependant on Relatives: No. As I said, this living situation was grossly mis-represented to us. Now, here we are in a new state, looking for new employment. We exchange a service for rent. Not freeloaders who are "dependant" in the meaning you are derogatorily using it, mate.

Apparently Unable To Provide a Safe Space For My Wife And Child. Well, I do a pretty good job of keeping them safe regardless of the current circumstances, and once I find suitable employment that isn't a "throw away" job, you can be we will be out of here. And this is the first time in over 30 years on this planet that I have been in this situation, so what does that tell you?

Olska, have you ever been in a non-optimum situation that took a little time to sort out?

I thought so.

Also, did you know that more than 1 window can be opened on most internet browsers. I think it's usually referred to as multi-tasking. I take advantage of that amazing technological breakthrough and have more than one window open when I am online doing various things...one of which is job searching. Also, today is Sunday, and while I'm not sure about where you live, not many HR departments leave their offices open and manned up at this time.

And VedAlanzO, why are you worried about my, as you call it, "slimy attack" (please explain?) on Pooks/Patty. I was only playing along with the game that she initiated in post #47, mate.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=45461&postcount=47

[Zinjifar]

Why did you start this thread by calling it 'hypothetical'?

What does it have to do with enforced ('Church') scientology Disconnection?

Zinj

[Zinjifar]

And VedAlanzO, why are you worried about my, as you call it, "slimy attack"(?) on Pooks/Patty. I was just playing along with the game that she initiated.

If I bought into your story, I might find it strange that you seem so obsessed with your 'theory' that Veda and Alanzo are the same person, but, since I don't, I merely find it ironic that you sound so much like a revamped 'TruthSeeker' ;)

Zinj

[Free to shine]

Oh, it was only a footnote with a clarification, following.

"Concerned wife" appeared to have been sincere. Beef Terminal is just game-playing.

And he's receiving plenty of advice for his "hypothetical" situation.

Look at his earlier posts. Notice the slimy attacks on people such as Pooks.

His initial attempt (on this thread) to equate Cult imposed and enforced Disconnection, with the ordinary common-sense freedom to choose ones associates, and his tale about his "situation," do not make those earlier posts irrelevant.

I would like to help Beef Terminal with *real* issues, and have already provided some recommended reading.

But, at this at this stage of his participation in ESMB, I don't think BT is here to learn, but to create effects similar to the ones witnessed in his other posts, and to propagandize and, if possible. create confusion and waste people's time.

I tend to agree with you.

The hypothetical situation has now become real?

There are a lot of caring people here, especially when it comes to children, and posts concerning them get a response. It's a good way to see who reacts to what and how. :coolwink:

The absolute nastiness of some of the responses BT slides in should not be overlooked when the desire to help kicks in. Watch which posts he responds to....and how.

[Div6]

Oh, it was only a footnote with a clarification, following.

"Concerned wife" appeared to have been sincere. Beef Terminal is just game-playing.

And he's receiving plenty of advice for his "hypothetical" situation.

Look at his earlier posts. Notice the slimy attacks on people such as Pooks.

His initial attempt (on this thread) to equate Cult imposed and enforced Disconnection, with the ordinary common-sense freedom to choose ones associates, and his tale about his "situation," do not make those earlier posts irrelevant.

I would like to help Beef Terminal with *real* issues, and have already provided some recommended reading.

But, at this stage of his participation in ESMB, I don't think BT is here to learn, but to create effects similar to the ones witnessed in his other posts, and to propagandize and, if possible, create confusion and waste people's time.

I'm not asking for your justifications.
Or your rationalizations.

I am just asking you to, in the future, not use my posts to inject your viewpoint.

Can you do that?

Thanks.

[Beef Terminal]

If I bought into your story, I might find it strange that you seem so obsessed with your 'theory' that Veda and Alanzo are the same person, but, since I don't, I merely find it ironic that you sound so much like a revamped 'TruthSeeker' ;)

Zinj

I'm not sure who or what TruthSeeker is, but I am honored that you would compare me to someone/something with such a noble name...

And when you quote me, be sure to utilize all of it so you don't miss the important bits...like the fact that Patty/Pooks initiated something and I simply played along...

Don't try to do what you do with Scientology and make it look like something that it isn't.

So, here is the full quote: And VedAlanzO, why are you worried about my, as you call it, "slimy attack" (please explain?) on Pooks/Patty. I was only playing along with the game that she initiated in post #47, mate.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?...1&postcount=47

[Veda]

I'm not asking for your justifications.
Or your rationalizations.

I am just asking you to, in the future, not use my posts to inject your viewpoint.

Can you do that?

Thanks.

No.

I'll inject my viewpoint and so should you.

This is a forum.

Please don't inhibit yourself, and I won't either.

There was some brief confusion, that's all.

Suggest you read BT's earlier posts. It'll help you understand the situation better.

[Beef Terminal]

No.

I'll inject my viewpoint and so should you.

Please don't inhibit yourself, and I won't either.



That's the first good advice I've heard from VedAlanzO. Seems it only applies occasionally though.

Yeah, do read my other posts, but be sure you check to see what they are "follow-ups" to. Don't act like Zinjifar and Veda and skew/distort something to suit your own ends.

Like my first post on ESMB was an honest and sincere question to Bea Kiddo. Nothing derogatory and was, she claims, from there on ignored (no answer either...which spake quite loudly, in itself).

Her ignoring me is fine, although a little bit puzzling, since in another thread, she claimed to "love new members." Like I said, puzzling.

But always be sure you inject your viewpoint and don't inhibit yourself.

[Div6]

No.

I'll inject my viewpoint and so should you.

This is a forum.

Please don't inhibit yourself, and I won't either.

There was some brief confusion, that's all.

Suggest you read BT's earlier posts. It'll help you understand the situation better.

The "situation" is quite clear, thank you very much.

So, when are you going to tell us "your" story?

It seems there is a lot you inhibit yourself from saying....about yourself.

[Dulloldfart]

I'll toss in my opinion for what it's worth. I believe BT's general story, even if I don't like all the noise along with it.

Paul

[Veda]

That's the first good advice I've heard from VedAlanzO. Seems it only applies occasionally though.

Yeah, do read my other posts, but be sure you check to see what they are "follow-ups" to. Don't act like Zinjifar and Veda and skew/distort something to suit your own ends.

Like my first post to Bea Kiddo. Nothing derogatory and was, she claims, from there on ignored. And that's fine, although a little bit puzzling, since in another thread, she claimed to "love new members." Like I said, puzzling.

But always be sure you inject your viewpoint and don't inhibit yourself.

Firstly, you snipped my post in a misleading way.

Neither myself nor Div6 practice sadism in our postings. You do.

We can enjoy freedom. You tend to abuse it.

And your post to Bea Kiddo was insensitive and out of line.

Now get out of that chair, turn off the computer, and begin to take care of your hypothetical family.

[Beef Terminal]

Firstly, you snipped my post in a misleading way.

Neither myself nor Div6 practice sadism in our postings. You do.

We can enjoy freedom. You tend to abuse it.

And your post to Bea Kiddo was insensitive and out of line.

Now get out of that chair, turn off the computer, and begin to take care of your hypothetical family.

The heat is ON!!!! Listen to that frantic-ness.

Post #77 clears up what I am doing to "take care of my family", but in case you missed it...or are just ignoring it for your convenience of giving yourself something to say...here it is...

"Also, did you know that more than 1 window can be opened on most internet browsers. I think it's usually referred to as multi-tasking. I take advantage of that amazing technological breakthrough and have more than one window open when I am online doing various things...one of which is job searching. Also, today is Sunday, and while I'm not sure about where you live, not many HR departments leave their offices open and manned up at this time."


And you still haven't explained how my comment to Pooks/Patty, in response to a comment of hers, was a "slimy attack". I'd really be interested in hearing why you think it was such.

[Beef Terminal]

If I bought into your story, I might find it strange that you seem so obsessed with your 'theory' that Veda and Alanzo are the same person, but, since I don't, I merely find it ironic that you sound so much like a revamped 'TruthSeeker' ;)

Zinj

How do I seem obsessed with my 'theory' that Veda and Alanzo are the same poster? They share EXTREMELY similar viewpoints and one is a social animal with an avatar & picture, hamming it up, while the other simply robotically redundates the same stuff in utter anonymity. Join dates are somewhat close together as well.

And as somewhat prominent posters on this board, they rarely seem to cross paths...

But then it could simply be the diseased imaginings of a $cientologist.

[Div6]

How do I seem obsessed with my 'theory' that Veda and Alanzo are the same poster? They share EXTREMELY similar viewpoints and one is a social animal with an avatar & picture, hamming it up, while the other simply robotically redundates the same stuff in utter anonymity. Join dates are somewhat close together as well.

And as somewhat prominent posters on this board, they rarely seem to cross paths...

But then it could simply be the diseased imaginings of a $cientologist.

As theories go, its a good as another....the proof of course, is yet to be seen.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
So we will see if it moves beyond the theory stage.


My "opinion" is that they are distinct individuals, with 2 very distinct and different experiences with "the onion". Alanzo laments the loss of the object which he found closest to the projection of his ideals. Veda tends more to the "all that glitters is not gold" camp. Both very valid viewpoints...

[duddins]

Not that you shouldn't call the police if you can't yourself.



The point is to recognize what one can and can't do and to act accordingly. I have no trouble calling the police if a child is at risk or a woman is being beat by her husband. I did this more than once for my sister who was a victim of spousal abuse yet kept going back for more.

If I were a guest, I would have to find a way out and quick. I would not want my children bearing witness to domestic violence. But then again, my point of view is based on my own life experience.

I respect your point of view.

Our experiences are very different.

Meanwhile this thread has taken a left hand turn..........

Peace.

[Terril park]

Furthermore I have handled drug addicts without the police or rehab.

I had a drunken druggy cousin who tore through my family for 15 years causing all sorts of damage, almost drove her parents into bankrupcy with legal biils, hospital bills, rehab, new cars, raising the children she abandonded. One week I went to visit and she took me to a bar. On the way home she drunkenly stopped the car in a busy intersection and I almost got hit by a Mack truck sideways. I went to the drivers side of the car and pulled her out and beat the shit out of her. She looked like the Mack truck had actually hit her. She checked into AA the next day and hasn't had a drink in fifteen years. I'm her last daughter's godmother.

I had a heroin addict do the doubt formula and decide he didn't want to be a heroin addict and he's been clean for 14 years.

T.I.

T.I.

Way to go TI. :)

[Terril park]

I'll toss in my opinion for what it's worth. I believe BT's general story, even if I don't like all the noise along with it.

Paul

Seconded.

[Terril park]

As theories go, its a good as another....the proof of course, is yet to be seen.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
So we will see if it moves beyond the theory stage.


My "opinion" is that they are distinct individuals, with 2 very distinct and different experiences with "the onion". Alanzo laments the loss of the object which he found closest to the projection of his ideals. Veda tends more to the "all that glitters is not gold" camp. Both very valid viewpoints...


It would never ocurr to me to think Veda and Alanso are the same person.
I've been reading their posts since both came to the net I believe. Knew
Alanzo for years on beliefnet.

The writing styles are way different. Alanzo is mostly having fun and strong on humour, with actually little antgonistic comment on scn. Though it appears from time to time. Veda is quite serious and monotoned on his agenda.

[Free to shine]

It would never ocurr to me to think Veda and Alanso are the same person.


I think it's a compliment to both Alanzo and Veda in a way. I think they are both terrific! And such an attempt to degrade them both is very interesting. :coolwink:

[Beef Terminal]

I think it's a compliment to both Alanzo and Veda in a way. I think they are both terrific! And such an attempt to degrade them both is very interesting. :coolwink:

Mis-interpretation (probably not your first). No attempt to degrade. Just spouting off. Ever done that before?

[Div6]

It would never ocurr to me to think Veda and Alanso are the same person.
I've been reading their posts since both came to the net I believe. Knew
Alanzo for years on beliefnet.

The writing styles are way different. Alanzo is mostly having fun and strong on humour, with actually little antgonistic comment on scn. Though it appears from time to time. Veda is quite serious and monotoned on his agenda.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare

Grade 0 - "Listen" I highly recommend trying it some time...

[The Oracle]

For someone who is out of work, dependent on relatives for a place to live, and apparently unable to provide a "safe space" for his own wife and child, you seem awfully concerned about a stranger's "O/Ws" and that stranger's need to "move on with his life."

After reading most of your posts, my questions are:

Why are you spending your time posting derogatory remarks about ex-scientologists on an internet message board instead of taking care of business and your family in real life? Are there no jobs or business opportunities, no hotels, motels, or apartments for rent in the area where you live?

Just because he's down on his luck for a moment doesn't mean he has forfeited a right to view and consider.

I know the biggest crime to many people is "being broke".

Just because he is today rearranging his life doesn't mean he's a weak spot to be prodded.

How 'bout a little kindness when your fellow man is down on his luck?

He still has a right to defend himself.

At LEAST can notice outpoints.

At LEAST he is demanding improvment.

He came here asking for help and got a good kick in the teeth.

What's up with that?

It's simple.

"Help me?"

Yes.

or No.

But you don't have to hear someone in distress and assume you can get a good kick in their teeth while they are down.

Haven't you ever heard, "Don't kick a man when he's down". ?

It's only common decency.

T.I.

[Free to shine]

Mis-interpretation (probably not your first). No attempt to degrade. Just spouting off. Ever done that before?

"Spouting off" is a disguise for targetting "Opinion Leaders". In my opinion. Old, old game. :D

[The Oracle]

I can assure you that Veda and Alanzo are not one and the same.

Alanzo is very flexible and very very funny at times. He is not really stuck in anything, he just seems to visit different points of view.

Alanzo has the ability to change his point of view in an instant.

He also grants others a platform and is not on a set mission here.

He also has good things to say to people.

He also lends encouragement.

He can be hysterically funny too.

He has a broad sense of humor.

Mainly, he is very approachable to communicate with.

So, whatever differences you have with him are easily resolved.

Although he may be challenging at times with ideas he does not go out of his way seeking prey to attack.

You don't get sudden lunges from him from left field either.

His humor is offbeat sometimes but he doesn't go for anyone's throat.

He is usually a gentleman with the ladies.

He also grows on you on the forum after you get used to his dimension.

He makes friends here with people on all sides of the fence.

He is approachable, not reproachful.

He does happen to be honest so if you invite him to comment about something by posting here you have invited his input.

I can assure you, Alanzo is Alanzo and nobody else.

Besides, I know who Veda is and Alanzo is not Veda.

Did your walk on this thread just become a little more comfortable?

T.I.
T.I.

[Alanzo]

I can assure you that Veda and Alanzo are not one and the same.

Alanzo is very flexible and very very funny at times. He is not really stuck in anything, he just seems to visit different points of view.

Alanzo has the ability to change his point of view in an instant.

He also grants others a platform and is not on a set mission here.

He also has good things to say to people.

He also lends encouragement.

He can be hysterically funny too.

He has a broad sense of humor.

Mainly, he is very approachable to communicate with.

So, whatever differences you have with him are easily resolved.

Although he may be challenging at times with ideas he does not go out of his way seeking prey to attack.

You don't get sudden lunges from him from left field either.

His humor is offbeat sometimes but he doesn't go for anyone's throat.

He is usually a gentleman with the ladies.

He also grows on you on the forum after you get used to his dimension.

He makes friends here with people on all sides of the fence.

He is approachable, not reproachful.

He does happen to be honest so if you invite him to comment about something by posting here you have invited his input.

I can assure you, Alanzo is Alanzo and nobody else.

Besides, I know who Veda is and Alanzo is not Veda.

Did your walk on this thread just become a little more comfortable?

T.I.

I feel like Burt Reynolds did in the 1970's.

In other words, I'm a total stud.

Veda, however, is probably feeling a bit like Dom Delouise right now.

Se La Vie, Veda.

Se La Vie....

[Div6]

I feel like Burt Reynolds did in the 1970's.

In other words, I'm a total stud.

Veda, however, is probably feeling a bit like Dom Delouise.

Se La Vie, Veda.

Se La Vie....

You should change your av to reflect your new hormonal dimension...

and it's C'est La Vie

As in "C'est La Vie, C'est La Guerre".

Thoses French can be very erotic...

[Alanzo]

You should change your av to reflect your new hormonal dimension...

and it's C'est La Vie

As in "C'est La Vie, C'est La Guerre".

Thoses French can be very erotic...

Sorry.

I was guillotined in the late 1700's and have refused to spell French correctly ever since. (That really pisses them off)

[Zinjifar]

Sorry.

I was guillotined in the late 1700's and have refused to spell French correctly ever since. (That really pisses them off)

They ended up in the c'est pool instead of the whole track.

Zinj

[Div6]

Sorry.

I was guillotined in the late 1700's and have refused to spell French correctly ever since. (That really pisses them off)

Well, as long as that ser fac doesn't allow you to look at the French ladies, you can keep it then. Just means more for me.....:biglove:

[Beef Terminal]

"Spouting off" is a disguise for targetting "Opinion Leaders". In my opinion. Old, old game. :D


What is an "Opinion Leader?"

Have you already decided that, no matter what, I am wrong?

-

T.I.

Thanks again for your posts, I appreciate your insight into the matter. It's just how it seems to me...and as I said, I am willing and able to be wrong...and probably am quite a bit more than I would like to be...

But that's life sometimes isn't it?

[The Oracle]

They ended up in the c'est pool instead of the whole track.

Zinj

That was hysterical! :roflmao:

T.I.

[The Oracle]

What is an "Opinion Leader?"

Have you already decided that, no matter what, I am wrong?

-

T.I.

Thanks again for your posts, I appreciate your insight into the matter. It's just how it seems to me...and as I said, I am willing and able to be wrong...and probably am quite a bit more than I would like to be...

But that's life sometimes isn't it?

It's a plus point that you are uncomfortable in that environment.

I just sent a spell your way, 700 lucky quanta units to enhance good fortune.

Spend them wisely, good news is on the way.

T.I.

[Alan]

It's a plus point that you are uncomfortable in that environment.

I just sent a spell your way, 700 lucky quanta units to enhance good fortune.

Spend them wisely, good news in on the way.

T.I.

Beautiful T.I. :D

[Pascal]

Leave those nuts. Call social services on their asses. Move to a more theta place, like the bible belt. Why stand for this entheta?

[Beef Terminal]

It's a plus point that you are uncomfortable in that environment.

I just sent a spell your way, 700 lucky quanta units to enhance good fortune.

Spend them wisely, good news is on the way.

T.I.

T.I.

Awesome. There is a "change in the air" this morning, no doubt.

And Alanzo, if you are not Veda, you have my apologies.

I just realized what an utter insult that is.

Will you be Jesus and forgive me?

[Tanstaafl]

Awesome. There is a "change in the air" this morning, no doubt.

Good news. :thumbsup:
I hope things continue to improve.

[Alanzo]

T.I.

Awesome. There is a "change in the air" this morning, no doubt.

And Alanzo, if you are not Veda, you have my apologies.

I just realized what an utter insult that is.

Will you be Jesus and forgive me?

I can easily be Jesus.

I understand what it is to walk into the House of Wolves. They are coming at you so fast, one looks just like the other.

You are forgiven, BT.

I admire your courage.

[Krysti]

That's hilarious. Because I live in a house with my crazy sister-in law, her crazy drug riddled husband and neglected son, I should be "put away"? What about my wife and our child? Should they be "put away" too for living in a place that was grossly mis-represented before we moved in?

Krysti, please explain how another family's failing dynamics have anything to do with tearing apart my beautiful and theta family.

What planet do you live on? Clearly one with an insane individual who calls herself "Krysti."


You are speaking of a situation where you are living, with your son, with a gun brandishing, wife beating guy on drugs who talks of murdering women. Do you not think you are putting your child in danger? You AND your wife are responsible for the safety of your son. Should you be put away for living in a place that was grossly mis-represented? No. The problem is you are CONTINUING to live, with your son, in a place you clearly know now is dangerous.

Again, I really hope this scenario *is* hypothetical.

Krysti

[RamsBlue]

LESS POSTING, MORE JOB SEARCHING!

Oh, and it's Monday, HR is open :wink2:

[The Oracle]

T.I.

Awesome. There is a "change in the air" this morning, no doubt.

And Alanzo, if you are not Veda, you have my apologies.

I just realized what an utter insult that is.

Will you be Jesus and forgive me?

Well, just remember, whatever happens, do not go the effect of the magic.

You have to be cause over it all times.

The moment you start to wonder, or go into awe, or become fascinated, or anything like that, you are going effect of the magic instead of being cause over it. Don't ever go the effect of it. Because once you go effect of it, you are not being cause over it anymore, and it can slip away.

Stay at cause over the good fortune.

T.I.

[The Oracle]

I don't know where you are living right now, in the U.S. or not, out in the country or near a city.

But you can always apply for a property managment job at an apartment building.

You will get a free apartment plus pay if it is a large complex.

If you go with a smaller building, you will still get a free apartment.

You may want to relocate if you are in a depressed area such as West Virginia or mid state Florida if you are in the U.S..

But once you get into your apartment your wife can get grooved in on managing the building and that would free you up to look for other part time work. Your wife meanwhile could too, take on part time work as a Nanny in the apartment.

Basically, you could be working as much as you are now and getting an apartment in exchange plus pay.

When I left the Sea Org this is how I got on my feet.

I also earned extra money cleaning vacant apartments.

It's a great way to get situated and apartment managers, really good ones, are very hard to find.

If you are on the West Coast the fact that you can speak English will get you any job you ask for.

There are many areas of the U.S. where it is basically impossible to find work.

There are other areas where you have to hide in a closet not to find work.

If you could tell me what general area you are in (you can PM me) I might be more helpful with suggestions.

T.I.

[The Oracle]

The point is to recognize what one can and can't do and to act accordingly. I have no trouble calling the police if a child is at risk or a woman is being beat by her husband. I did this more than once for my sister who was a victim of spousal abuse yet kept going back for more.

If I were a guest, I would have to find a way out and quick. I would not want my children bearing witness to domestic violence. But then again, my point of view is based on my own life experience.

I respect your point of view.

Our experiences are very different.

Meanwhile this thread has taken a left hand turn..........

Peace.

I am glad you reached out to take responsibility for your sister.

Good for you.

Peace back at you.........

T.I.

[Beef Terminal]

T.I.,

Based on your posts on this thread and a brief reading of some of your others, you are an asset to this board and to humanity in general.

I am in an area with quite a few apartments. I have no prior property management experience but I will definitely give it a shot by dropping my resumé this week.

Thank you again for your positivity and suggestions.

BT

[Div6]

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

And thanks TI.

Help is a beautiful thing....

[duddins]

You are speaking of a situation where you are living, with your son, with a gun brandishing, wife beating guy on drugs who talks of murdering women. Do you not think you are putting your child in danger? You AND your wife are responsible for the safety of your son. Should you be put away for living in a place that was grossly mis-represented? No. The problem is you are CONTINUING to live, with your son, in a place you clearly know now is dangerous.

Again, I really hope this scenario *is* hypothetical.

Krysti

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

[ozzie]

what you said Dudds!

:thumbsup:

[duddins]

what you said Dudds!

:thumbsup:

I am glad I am not the only one who sees massive holes in this scenario and who hopes it is merely hypothetical.

My question is this:

If it is a true scenario, and BT is truly asking for advice......

where are the intrinsic responses that would come from a parent stuck in a situation like this?

There have been no comments referring to action.....just words.

Defensive at times...attacking others on the board at times....that is why it is hard to take this cat seriously.

If one were in such a situation, would one not respond first...in one way or another? For the sake of survival and one's family? Then ask for advice from a message board?

BT: What do you do when these horrid things are taking place?

What does your wife do as these bad things are happening in the home?

Does she have a message board to go to for advice too?

What has been done so far abut this violence in the home?

What do you usually do when he is beating his wife?

(Instead of insulting me, like you did with the others that questioned your thread, let us know. These are real questions...really)

[Krysti]

and once I find suitable employment that isn't a "throw away" job, you can be we will be out of here.

This is the part that really gets me. Maybe, BT, you should find any job you can get right now, whether it's a "throw away" job or not. Get out. And then look for a better job. Drastic times are cause for drastic measures.

[duddins]

This is the part that really gets me. Maybe, BT, you should find any job you can get right now, whether it's a "throw away" job or not. Get out. And then look for a better job. Drastic times are cause for drastic measures.


Boy do I hear you......Krysti

IMO "Throw away job" is just an excuse or a tossed out statement to cover the fact that none of this is really happening...............

except at INT as Little Bear Victor pointed out earlier in the thread.

[Beef Terminal]

I am glad I am not the only one who sees massive holes in this scenario and who hopes it is merely hypothetical.

My question is this:

If it is a true scenario, and BT is truly asking for advice......

where are the intrinsic responses that would come from a parent stuck in a situation like this?

There have been no comments referring to action.....just words.

I don't know what "actions" you expect to "see" on a message board...


Defensive at times...attacking others on the board at times....that is why it is hard to take this cat seriously.

Because I defend myself against unfounded attacks, and give someone back what they dished out, you can't take me seriously? That's hard to take seriously.


If one were in such a situation, would one not respond first...in one way or another? For the sake of survival and one's family? Then ask for advice from a message board?

You are missing a vital point here, mate. Action is occurring...even though you can't see it and even though I don't give you up to the minute, play-by-play details to you. I covered this in a previous post where I discussed multi-tasking...

Am I limited to only performing one cycle of action at a time? Well yeah, that's what I thought.


BT: What do you do when these horrid things are taking place?

We mind our own, although we did let the "sister-in-law" know that we heard some of what was going on and that if she needs anything (we have baseball bats and mace whcih she knows about), all she has to do is say the word...She is totally under this guy's control, however. Check PAB 13 on "The Aberrative Personality".


What does your wife do as these bad things are happening in the home?

My wife runs downstairs and gets right in the face of a coked up, gun wielding, wife-beating loser and starts yelling at him...what the hell do you think she does?


Does she have a message board to go to for advice too?

Not sure, I will ask her and let you now, or have her come on here herself to answer your thoughtful question.


What has been done so far abut this violence in the home?

Not sure, it's seemed to have died down a bit (or become hidden better) since it first began.


What do you usually do when he is beating his wife?

The same thing my wife does.


(Instead of insulting me, like you did with the others that questioned your thread, let us know. These are real questions...really)

Really? What insults have I "unprovokenly" dished out??


Boy do I hear you......Krysti

IMO "Throw away job" is just an excuse or a tossed out statement to cover the fact that none of this is really happening...............

Excuses and facts, oh my!! Have you been over here?

What a bold statement!!! "...the fact that none of this is really happening." Would some audio or video be proof enough for you? I have audio of the guy forcing the conversation of donkey shows on his wife and in front of his child and the insults to my family...I also have other audio of the types of conversations this guy engages in but most of those were before the infidelity of his wife.


except at INT as Little Bear Victor pointed out earlier in the thread.

Yeah it's definitely happening there...but not here...

[The Oracle]

T.I.,

Based on your posts on this thread and a brief reading of some of your others, you are an asset to this board and to humanity in general.

I am in an area with quite a few apartments. I have no prior property management experience but I will definitely give it a shot by dropping my resumé this week.

Thank you again for your positivity and suggestions.

BT

You can look in the classifieds under: "Apartment Manager", "Property Manager" or "free Rent". Don't think it is a dead end job. I kept moving up and landed in Beverly Hills in a company that managed celebrities and overseas investors estates and made a LOT of money. Once you do well at a building you can move into the property managment company. Once you do well there you can go to just about any state and move your way up to president in any property management company (you'll most likely be recruited). All you have to be able to REALLY do is care about the people in front of you. It is a service oriented work. Then you can start your own company,.. and the sky is the limit. It's best to work up from the bottom, and the work is soooo fun! You get to meet different people all the time. You get to rent out the apartments and be the chaplain of the building. If you are kind all the tenants will come to you for advice, or at least a beer and a chat. You get invited to all the parties in the building. If you start your own company eventually, you will know so much more than other people in the business that didn't start at the bottom and work their way up, you will have an edge. If you do get into a position of power, don't EVER EVER EVER take a kickback (and companies, contactors, and even the union will offer it you). You will find as a person with a sense of ethics you will become very well loved and respected if people can really trust you. And the people you hire will stay with you forever and follow you anywhere. It is such a FUN FUN FUN line of work and you learn so much everyday and the main thing is, you can keep moving up forever. And eventually, at Christmastime, you won't be able to walk in your office because of all the Christmas baskets you got!

Thank you for your generous acknowledgment.


T.I.

[duddins]

Would some audio or video be proof enough for you? I have audio of the guy forcing the conversation of donkey shows on his wife and in front of his child and the insults to my family...I also have other audio of the types of conversations this guy engages in but most of those were before the infidelity of his wife.



Best of luck with your real situation.

[The Oracle]

P.S. I see a comm ev has been convened on you.

When that happens to me I blow right away and leave a note that says: "T.I. has checked out of the comm ev."

You'de be amazed at how often comm evs get convened on the internet forums, and the finding and recs get distributed on an hourly basis.

It's best to blow from them right away.

Forget what you have been told about blowing.

Blowing is good for the soul.

A thetan has a right to leave a game.

T.I.

[Krysti]

My suggestion...

Next time you start a thread asking for advice and want people to know the situation is real, you might not want to put the word "hypothetical" in the subject line.

Sincerely,

Krysti

[Beef Terminal]

My suggestion...

Next time you start a thread asking for advice and want people to know the situation is real, you might not want to put the word "hypothetical" in the subject line.

Sincerely,

Krysti

Dear Krysti,

"Hypothetical" was placed in quotation marks as a slight excercise in humor despite the vile situation in which I find myself. I was relying on the intelligence of the readers here to be able to discern the truth of the matter. I am sorry that you (and a couple of others) were unable to "get it".

Scientology can help you with that.

Cordially,

Beef Terminal

[Terril park]

You can look in the classifieds under: "Apartment Manager", "Property Manager" or "free Rent". Don't think it is a dead end job. I kept moving up and landed in Beverly Hills in a company that managed celebrities and overseas investors estates and made a LOT of money. Once you do well at a building you can move into the property managment company. Once you do well there you can go to just about any state and move your way up to president in any property management company (you'll most likely be recruited). All you have to be able to REALLY do is care about the people in front of you. It is a service oriented work. Then you can start your own company,.. and the sky is the limit. It's best to work up from the bottom, and the work is soooo fun! You get to meet different people all the time. You get to rent out the apartments and be the chaplain of the building. If you are kind all the tenants will come to you for advice, or at least a beer and a chat. You get invited to all the parties in the building. If you start your own company eventually, you will know so much more than other people in the business that didn't start at the bottom and work their way up, you will have an edge. If you do get into a position of power, don't EVER EVER EVER take a kickback (and companies, contactors, and even the union will offer it you). You will find as a person with a sense of ethics you will become very well loved and respected if people can really trust you. And the people you hire will stay with you forever and follow you anywhere. It is such a FUN FUN FUN line of work and you learn so much everyday and the main thing is, you can keep moving up forever. And eventually, at Christmastime, you won't be able to walk in your office because of all the Christmas baskets you got!

Thank you for your generous acknowledgment.


T.I.

Hey BT, this chick is way cool on surviving.

Who else here has told you about fun. :)

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi, Beef Terminal,

I know you feel like you've been put on trial here. And I know some people have challenged you. And I know that's a pain in the ass.

But in general there've been some really good friendly advice giving posts on this thread.

Could you dial it back a notch? Believe me, I know how it is to be defensive. I know how it feels.

But thing is, when you present a personal problem and ask people for advice- it opens the door to personal or evaluative comments. Ok, it was presented as an hypothetical but then later you said it was your situation.

So once you invite people to comment on a personal thing- it gets, well- personal!

This forum's nowhere near as wild and wooly as some other ones where people will give you advice even if you didn't even ask for it, believe me.

But it's got a mix of personalities.

Now, as to Krysti, I personally think you are being rough on her. She's not rude and she's always civil, that I could see. If she's getting personal with you, it's because she was invited to do so by your creation of this thread. If she's offering assessments that you don't think are correct or that she doesn't "get it", well, these situations are always different for the person who's involved than the person who's hearing about it. So give her a break.

[Terril park]

Hi, Beef Terminal,

I know you feel like you've been put on trial here. And I know some people have challenged you. And I know that's a pain in the ass.

But in general there've been some really good friendly advice giving posts on this thread.

Could you dial it back a notch? Believe me, I know how it is to be defensive. I know how it feels.

But thing is, when you present a personal problem and ask people for advice- it opens the door to personal or evaluative comments. Ok, it was presented as an hypothetical but then later you said it was your situation.

So once you invite people to comment on a personal thing- it gets, well- personal!

This forum's nowhere near as wild and wooly as some other ones where people will give you advice even if you didn't even ask for it, believe me.

But it's got a mix of personalities.

Now, as to Krysti, I personally think you are being rough on her. She's not rude and she's always civil, that I could see. If she's getting personal with you, it's because she was invited to do so by your creation of this thread. If she's offering assessments that you don't think are correct or that she doesn't "get it", well, these situations are always different for the person who's involved than the person who's hearing about it. So give her a break.

Yeah. Go Krysrti. :)

[The Oracle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Gn0e7kvTA

[Krysti]

Dear Krysti,

"Hypothetical" was placed in quotation marks as a slight excercise in humor despite the vile situation in which I find myself. I was relying on the intelligence of the readers here to be able to discern the truth of the matter. I am sorry that you (and a couple of others) were unable to "get it".

Scientology can help you with that.

Cordially,

Beef Terminal

Dear Beef Terminal,

Sorry I'm not intelligent enough for you to find any humor in this situation.

I would have hoped you would have asked for advice, with this situation that I take very seriously, without adding in a comment about disconnection that I believe was insincere. I believe it was insincere as I believe you have the intelligence to discern CofS enforced disconnection versus disconnection from the situation you are in. And, as I believe you could have foreseen, instead of sincere advice, you got a lot of flak for it.

As for what I said, I stand by it, especially after your comment about not wanting to just take any "throw away" job. As a parent, your #1 job is keeping your son safe. Do what you need to do, NOW, to make sure your son is safe. Worry about finding a job you like that is not "throw away" later.

You asked for advice. This may not be the advice you wanted to hear, but it is *my* advice.

Sincerely,

Krysti

[Krysti]

Now, as to Krysti, I personally think you are being rough on her. She's not rude and she's always civil, that I could see. If she's getting personal with you, it's because she was invited to do so by your creation of this thread. If she's offering assessments that you don't think are correct or that she doesn't "get it", well, these situations are always different for the person who's involved than the person who's hearing about it. So give her a break.

Thank you, Fluffy and Terril.

It's always easier to say than to do. Just like advice is always easier to hear than to take.

[Zinjifar]

I still doubt that Beefy is anything but a 'hypothetical' creature at all, and that his entire purpose in showing up here was merely to spread dissention and especially confusion as to the actual meaning of 'Disconnection'.

Admittedly, there are people who feel that one must bend over backwards to 'grant beingness' to people wearing absurd costumes and selling absurd 'cover stories', but, there comes a time when 'backwards' becomes 'head up your own butt'.

If Beefy really *is* what he claims to be... well, my sneering at him is the *least* of his problems.

Zinj

[Terril park]

I still doubt that Beefy is anything but a 'hypothetical' creature at all, and that his entire purpose in showing up here was merely to spread dissention and especially confusion as to the actual meaning of 'Disconnection'.

Admittedly, there are people who feel that one must bend over backwards to 'grant beingness' to people wearing absurd costumes and selling absurd 'cover stories', but, there comes a time when 'backwards' becomes 'head up your own butt'.

If Beefy really *is* what he claims to be... well, my sneering at him is the *least* of his problems.

Zinj

Occams Razor?

Your comments above are way more complex than Beefys.

[Zinjifar]

Occams Razor?

Your comments above are way more complex than Beefys.

?? Since I've seen them come and go for 10 years, I find the idea of preposterous 'Church' constructs far less preposterous than the Jerry Springerism Beefy was selling; especially given that he came *here* to talk about it and attempting to suggest that it had something to do with Scientology 'Disconnection'.

Zinj

[Alanzo]

If Beef Terminal is or was an "Op", he didn't succeed very well.

I don't think "Ops" are succeeding very well here on ESMB, do you?

[Bea Kiddo]

If Beef Terminal is or was an "Op", he didn't succeed very well.

I don't think "Ops" are succeeding very well here on ESMB, do you?

They are welcome to come here and spam and mess around with us. It helps to show the type of people they are.

I just don't like when they make nasty comments or ask snide questions, which is why he was put on my ignore list.

But even when they do that type of thing, it still shows what kind of people they are. Or that they have been made into. PMD is another example of it.

Those who want to come here to discuss and treat the other members of the board with respect are certainly welcome. The more the merrier.

Trolls don't do that, I know.

And neither do the "KSW #1 Scientologists" that pass through this sight. (notice how I categorized it, because we have members here who call themselves Scientolgists and I love them and enjoy discussions with them, but they are also involved in other forms of Scn, not CofS, and that makes them cool people in my book).

I will probably end up having to clarify this post. Ah well. Barely awake.

[Beef Terminal]

If Beef Terminal is or was an "Op", he didn't succeed very well.

I don't think "Ops" are succeeding very well here on ESMB, do you?

I think it's more paranoia (mild or extreme) on certain individuals parts which lends to the "he's an Op, she's an Op" finger pointing.

Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of paranoia now and then, though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw

It's amazing what a small comment in one post re: disconnection would lead someone to conclude.

[Alanzo]

I think it's more paranoia (mild or extreme) on certain individuals parts which lends to the "he's an Op, she's an Op" finger pointing.

Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of paranoia now and then, though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw

It's amazing what a small comment in one post re: disconnection would lead someone to conclude.

I didn't say you were an Op.

I just said that if you were an Op, you weren't succeeding very well.

[Beef Terminal]

I didn't say you were an Op.

I just said that if you were an Op, you weren't succeeding very well.

Oh, I know, I wasn't mis-interpreting you.

And yeah, posting a few times, giving back what someone dished out and then asking advice is hardly successful Op activity (as I imagine it)...

I would have been demoted at the very least.

[Zinjifar]

I would have been demoted at the very least.

I don't see why. You're not doing any worse than the rest of them.

Zinj

[Div6]

Oh, I know, I wasn't mis-interpreting you.

And yeah, posting a few times, giving back what someone dished out and then asking advice is hardly successful Op activity (as I imagine it)...

I would have been demoted at the very least.

So....(assuming Product Officer Hat)

Dones come from effective doingnesss.

What have you DONE to change your situation for the better?
Where is the PRODUCT of you and your family being in a safe space?

[Tanstaafl]

I got egg on my face over Eamonn Gosney, it appears.

Nevertheless, I see no clear indicators that BT is an OSA stooge.

Is someone gonna give me "How to Spot an OSA Stooge 101"?

[Beef Terminal]

I don't see why. You're not doing any worse than the rest of them.

Zinj

Since you are the self-proclaimed Master of Inval and Eval...why don't you Evaluate and Invalidate them, oh Divine Master, by posting the list of names as well as what the goals are (which some are better and worse at) of your imagined Ops.

Yeah, I didn't think so, mate.

[Alanzo]

I got egg on my face over Eamonn Gosney, it appears.

Nevertheless, I see no clear indicators that BT is an OSA stooge.

Is someone gonna give me "How to Spot an OSA Stooge 101"?

Watch it, Taansy.

That's just the kind of question an OSA Stooge would ask.

[Alanzo]

Since you have a Master list...being the self-proclaimed Master of Inval and Eval...

Why don't you Evaluate and Invalidate them, oh Master, by posting the list as well as what the goals are (which some are better and worse at) of your imagined Ops.

Yeah, I didn't think so...

I have a suggestion.

Instead of antagonizing the individuals in the forum, turn the conversation over to things that have to do with Scientology. Either pro or con, it does not matter.

How about that?

[Tanstaafl]

Watch it, Taansy.

That's just the kind of question an OSA Stooge would ask.

And that's exactly the kind of reply an OSA stooge would make.

[Alanzo]

And that's exactly the kind of reply an OSA stooge would make.

Very good!

Lesson 1: Deflecting attention onto others.

Very well done, Taansy.

And now for Lesson 2:

Which poster is the biggest SP on this board?

[Beef Terminal]

This could just be me flapping my gums, but it seems that a "successful" Op would mock up the beingness, doingness and havingness of a critic (mild or extreme) thus approximating the wavelength of "actual critics", get to know other "like-minded" individuals and well, you know what happens after that...

Slowly and insidiously lowering the wavelength of actual critics through various communications...

That would be one example of a successful Op, in my humble opinion.

[Tanstaafl]

Very good!

Lesson 1: Deflecting attention onto others.

Very well done, Taansy.

And now for Lesson 2:

Which poster is the biggest SP on this board?

Ooh - that's much harder.

Er.........."There are no SPs. It's just an invention of Hubbard's to isolate his enemies and prevent them from communicating with loyal cult members whilst reinforcing the idea in those loyal cult members that they are the good guys, thereby reinforcing their beingnesses as Scns"?

I think that might be a flunk. :nervous:

[Tanstaafl]

Call me Mr Naivete - what are their products?
What might their stats be?

[Div6]

Very good!

Lesson 1: Deflecting attention onto others.

Very well done, Taansy.

And now for Lesson 2:

Which poster is the biggest SP on this board?

Physically?

Or in terms of "lightyear kilotons per second"?

[Alanzo]

Well I can see that I've caused some confusion among the students here.

First of all, as an OP, you are a Churchie Scientologist, through and through.

Secondly, as an Op, your purpose is to defuse the criticism of the Church by making it intolerable to outsiders. Like on ARS - spam the shit out of the whole newsgroup so no one can stand reading the thing. Then, make everything so entheta that no one would ever sit still long enough to read it.

That is done by antagonizing the terminals there to get in firefights with each other constantly.

So, back to our lesson.

Who is the biggest SP on ESMB?

In other words, who do we.. er I mean THEY, not want listened to the most?

[Tanstaafl]

Well I can see that I've caused some confusion among the students here.

First of all, as an OP, you are a Churchie Scientologist, through and through.

Secondly, as an Op, your purpose is to defuse the criticism of the Church by making it intolerable to outsiders. Like on ARS - spam the shit out of the whole newsgroup so no one can stand reading the thing. Then, make everything so entheta that no one would ever sit still long enough to read it.

That is done by antagonizing the terminals there to get in firefights with each other constantly.

So, back to our lesson.

Who is the biggest SP on ESMB?

In other words, who do we.. er I mean THEY, not want listened to the most?

Alan?

[Alanzo]

Alan?

Very good.

I would think Alan is probably the biggest SP on ESMB.

And why is that, Taansy?

[Tanstaafl]

Very good.

I would think Alan is probably the biggest SP on ESMB.

And why is that, Taansy?

1. He has credibility - years in the SO, well trained on tech, has worked directly with LRH, etc.

2. Seems to have a viable "alternative" to Scn tech.

3. Has demonstrated one can get declared and still be successful in life and handle case.

4. He's English!

[Div6]

Very good.

I would think Alan is probably the biggest SP on ESMB.

And why is that, Taansy?

A source is a source, of course of course,
and no one can talk to a source of course,
that is of course, unless the source,
Is the famous Mister AL!

Go right to the source and ask the source.
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mister Al.

People yak-it-ti-yak a streak
and waste your time of day,
but Mister Al will never speak,
unless he has something to say...

A source is a source, of course of course,
And this one will talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking source?
Well, listen to this...

I am Mister Al

[Alanzo]

1. He has credibility - years in the SO, well trained on tech, has worked directly with LRH, etc.

2. Seems to have a viable "alternative" to Scn tech.

3. Has demonstrated one can get declared and still be successful in life and handle case.

4. He's English!

Excellent reasons, Taansy!

Now, as an Op, what do we need to do with him? How can we make it so no one else will listen to him?

[Tanstaafl]

A source is a source, of course of course,
and no one can talk to a source of course,
that is of course, unless the source,
Is the famous Mister AL!

Go right to the source and ask the source.
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mister Al.

People yak-it-ti-yak a streak
and waste your time of day,
but Mister Al will never speak,
unless he has something to say...

A source is a source, of course of course,
And this one will talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking source?
Well, listen to this...

I am Mister Al

Nice one! He should record that and use it to promote Knowledgism.
Can anyone hit those real low notes on the final line? Bea? :D

[Alan]

1. He has credibility - years in the SO, well trained on tech, has worked directly with LRH, etc.

2. Seems to have a viable "alternative" to Scn tech.

3. Has demonstrated one can get declared and still be successful in life and handle case.

4. He's English!



:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

:lol:

Oh! Your so mean! :grouch: :grouch: :grouch:

[Tanstaafl]

Excellent reasons, Taansy!

Now, as an Op, what do we need to do with him? How can we make it so no one else will listen to him?

1. False report against accounts of his experiences in CoS and with Hubbard to DA him.

2. Make false reports about all those who have been "harmed" using "Knowledgism".

3. Provide reports/"evidence" that he has recently received psychiatric care and is bankrupt.

4. Mock-up of a phoney birth certificate to prove he is in fact French! :omg:
No-one would stoop that low, would they?

5. Use any means whatsoever to link him to the term Nazi, e.g. he "audited" Von Braun's grand-daughter and is thought to be a close family friend.

[Alan]

Excellent reasons, Taansy!

Now, as an Op, what do we need to do with him? How can we make it so no one else will listen to him?



How about using the most devastating crime of all - He's a friend of Tansy!

That'll get you dead agented everywhere by everyone for all time!

[Tanstaafl]

How about using the most devastating crime of all - He's a friend of Tansy!

So, er, what have you done to Tansy, Alan? :yes:

[Alanzo]

1. False report against accounts of his experiences in CoS and with Hubbard to DA him.

2. Make false reports about all those who have been "harmed" using "Knowledgism".

3. Provide reports/"evidence" that he has recently received psychiatric care and is bankrupt.

4. Mock-up of a phoney birth certificate to prove he is in fact French! :omg:
No-one would stoop that low, would they?

5. Use any means whatsoever to link him to the term Nazi, e.g. he "audited" Von Braun's grand-daughter and is thought to be a close family friend.

Very good, Taansy!

But you left out one thing: sex.

We need to get something on Alan's sexual habits.

Do you have anything we can use, Taansy?

[Veda]

Call me Mr Naivete - what are their products?
What might their stats be?

Maybe you wouldn't be so naive if you looked over the writings of Hubbard on the topic. He called this stuff "Scientology Intelligence tech." It sound very fancy, but it's mainly his description of how to covertly mess with people. This was Hubbard's #1 passion and, nowadays, the Scientology cult is left with that preoccupation. For example you won't find the word, "Intelligence" in the "Admin Dictionary," or the HCOPL "Battle Tactics" in the 'Green Volumes'. And even though writings, by Hubbard, such as "Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection," and "Intelligence, Its Role," are part of not only (confidential) Intel Check-sheets, but also senior PR Check-sheets, they - officially - don't exist.

So don't worry about "Beef Terminal" for now. Instead take some time (probably weeks or months, it took me longer than that) and begin to read and ponder - and decipher - as much of Scientology's "Intelligence tech" as you can find.

Not everyone who jumps through hoops for the Scientology cult is in "OSA" or an "OP." There are many varieties of situations where individuals can be used by the Scientology cult. There are "volunteers" and "Field Staff members" and there are "A to E's" and all sorts of things - including people who just like to play at being these things, such as whatshisname from Peru.

[Alan]

Very good, Taansy!

But you left out one thing: sex.

We need to get something on Alan's sexual habits.

Do you have anything we can use, Taansy?



There was a "sex questionaire" put out by one of the FZOrgs asking for any details of my illicit sex life.

I'm sorry to say no one had anything to report :no:

But I am still a virgin!

[Tanstaafl]

Very good, Taansy!

But you left out one thing: sex.

We need to get something on Alan's sexual habits.

Do you have anything we can use, Taansy?

Only that thing he told me about his Mexican gardener and the egg whisk.

I guess you're looking for kids or animals! :ohmy:

Now, I think about it he did mention something about getting his illegal immigrant under-age housekeeper to play Panzer Commander and the Milk Maid with him!

So, we've got: pervert (under-age), kinky (outfits), Nazis (Panzer Commanders), law-breaker (employing illegal immigrants). We just need to work in an animal angle and it's perfect!

I take it that it's not important if there isn't even a shred of proof? :eyeroll:

[Zinjifar]

Only that thing he told me about his Mexican gardener and the egg whisk.

I guess you're looking for kids or animals! :ohmy:

Now, I think about it he did mention something about getting his illegal immigrant under-age housekeeper to play Panzer Commander and the Milk Maid with him!

So, we've got: pervert (under-age), kinky (outfits), Nazis (Panzer Commanders), law-breaker (employing illegal immigrants). We just need to work in an animal angle and it's perfect!

I take it that it's not important if there isn't even a shred of proof? :eyeroll:

Throw in a St. Bernhard with a cask of 180 proof stroh rum. But, Alan's proposed 'virginity' is less than impressive when you consider that his available animals are armadillos.

Zinj

[Tanstaafl]

Maybe you wouldn't be so naive if you looked over the writings of Hubbard on the topic. He called this stuff "Scientology Intelligence tech." It sound very fancy, but it's mainly his description of how to covertly mess with people. This was Hubbard's #1 passion and, nowadays, the Scientology cult is left with that preoccupation. For example you won't find the word, "Intelligence" in the "Admin Dictionary," or the HCOPL "Battle Tactics" in the 'Green Volumes'. And even though writings, by Hubbard, such as "Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection," and "Intelligence, Its Role," are part of not only (confidential) Intel Check-sheets, but also senior PR Check-sheets, they - officially - don't exist.

So don't worry about "Beef Terminal" for now. Instead take some time (probably weeks or months, it took me longer than that) and begin to read and ponder - and decipher - as much of Scientology's "Intelligence tech" as you can find.

Not everyone who jumps through hoops for the Scientology cult is in "OSA" or an "OP." There are many varieties of situations where individuals can be used by the Scientology cult. There are "volunteers" and "Field Staff members" and there are "A to E's" and all sorts of things - including people who just like to play at being these things, such as whatshisname from Peru.

Thanks for that Veda.

I'm not naive. I call it as I see it. Sometimes I'm wrong.
It just seems to me that those who have been swiftly labelled OSA stooges on their arrival here wrote stupid posts. There are a lot of people both in and out of Scn who display stupidity. It takes a little more for me to reach such a conclusion with confidence.

I shall put the study of this area of tech on my list, but don't hold your breath, I've got the mother of all study backlogs. :melodramatic:

[Alanzo]

Throw in a St. Bernhard with a cask of 180 proof stroh rum. But, Alan's proposed 'virginity' is less than impressive when you consider that his available animals are armadillos.

Zinj

All right then.

It seems that Lesson 2, on How to Be An Op, has been passed.

Find the biggest SP and talk about their sexual habits.

Very good, one and all. You guys seem to be real pros at this!!!

Now, on to Lesson 3:

How do you stay an Op for years, and years, without anyone ever finding out??

[Tanstaafl]

But I am still a virgin!

:dieslaughing: :dieslaughing: :dieslaughing:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

[Tanstaafl]

All right then.

It seems that Lesson 2, on How to Be An Op, has been passed.

Find the biggest SP and talk about their sexual habits.

Very good, one and all. You guys seem to be real pros at this!!!

Now, on to Lesson 3:

How do you stay an Op for years, and years, without anyone ever finding out??

Make over thousands of posts.
Criticise LRH and the CoS at every turn.
Set up an alternative Bridge, say like The Bridge to Total Status.
................ hang on a minute! :ohmy:

[Alanzo]

Make over thousands of posts.
Criticise LRH and the CoS at every turn.
Set up an alternative Bridge, say like The Bridge to Total Status.
................ hang on a minute! :ohmy:

END OF LESSON!!!

Taansy has sex with chickens!!!!

[Alan]

Throw in a St. Bernhard with a cask of 180 proof stroh rum. But, Alan's proposed 'virginity' is less than impressive when you consider that his available animals are armadillos.

Zinj



Ouch! That really hurts - you armadillo bigot! :bigcry:

[Beef Terminal]

Now, on to Lesson 3:

How do you stay an Op for years, and years, without anyone ever finding out??

I think I (maybe partially) answered that on page 16, post #154.

[Tanstaafl]

Ouch! That really hurts - you armadillo bigot! :bigcry:

Alan - try Aardvaarks.
Aardvaark never hurt anyone! :D

[Div6]

Alan - try Aardvaarks.
Aardvaark never hurt anyone! :D

As Tans is an authority on those sorts of things....:omg:

[Tanstaafl]

As Tans is an authority on those sorts of things....:omg:

That's rich from someone using a picture of their girlfriend for their avatar! :p

[Alan]

As Tans is an authority on those sorts of things....:omg:



Tansy - so I am told by a high up OSA agent; is an authority on all things sexual connected to animals......if you notice the covert attempt to get me to start with an Aadvark........hoping I will go alphabetically down the list! :nervous:

[Div6]

[QUOTE=Alan;47546]Tansy - so I am told by a high up OSA agent; is an authority on all things sexual connected to animals......if you notice the covert attempt to get me to start with an Aadvark........hoping I will go alphabetically down the list! :nervous:[/QUOTE}


Didn't "corrupting a virgin" come under the list of items the Inquisitors were interested in?

[Tanstaafl]

Tansy - so I am told by a high up OSA agent; is an authority on all things sexual connected to animals......if you notice the covert attempt to get me to start with an Aadvark........hoping I will go alphabetically down the list! :nervous:

Well, when you get to Zebra you can be an authority too. :)

[Alanzo]

That's rich from someone using a picture of their girlfriend for their avatar! :p

She's hot!

[Tanstaafl]

Actually, I'm not indulging anymore. After seeing the flak Heather Mills got for sleeping with a Beatle, well it's just not worth it.

[Alan]

Actually, I'm not indulging anymore. After seeing the flak Heather Mills got for sleeping with a Beatle, well it's just not worth it.



:roflmao:

[Beef Terminal]

Hey mates,

Here's a short video I just uploaded of the child that my wife takes care of for her crazy sister and her crazy husband. He's a cute kid and really smart, too. Just over 2 years old.

Love,

BT (Your favorite [I hope] Osa Op)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bq_iupBsEI

http://www.youtube.com/BeefTerminal

[Tanstaafl]

Hey mates,

Here's a short video I just uploaded of the child that my wife takes care of for her crazy sister and her crazy husband. He's a cute kid and really smart, too. Just over 2 years old.

Love,

BT (Your favorite [I hope] Osa Op)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bq_iupBsEI

http://www.youtube.com/BeefTerminal

Cute kid. :)

[Beef Terminal]

Cute kid. :)

Yeah he is cute, cool and smart. He learns words after just hearing them once. It's really unfortunate, imo, that he landed the parents he did.

The other day he learned "piece of shit."

[Tanstaafl]

Yeah he is cute, cool and smart. He learns words after just hearing them once. It's really unfortunate, imo, that he landed the parents he did.

The other day he learned "piece of shit."

If he's got a good ear he may be a budding musician.
He might like a Les Paul and 100watt Marshall stack for xmas?
Short of that - how about a mini keyboard?

[Beef Terminal]

Good idea, mate.

My wife said the same thing...

Wait a sec, are you sure you're not really my wife!!??

OMG PARANOIA!!!!

Seriously, we are getting him a keyboard for X-mas.

[Tanstaafl]

Good idea, mate.

My wife said the same thing...

Wait a sec, are you sure you're not really my wife!!??

OMG PARANOIA!!!!

Seriously, we are getting him a keyboard for X-mas.


I can't be your wife because according to my legion of devoted fans on ESMB I only have sexual relations with farmyard animals. :yes:

Hope he likes the keyboard.
Just pray he doesn't take to it like a mini Keith Emerson and demand a huge bank of expensive synths for his birthday. :melodramatic:

[Div6]

If he's got a good ear he may be a budding musician.
He might like a Les Paul and 100watt Marshall stack for xmas?
Short of that - how about a mini keyboard?

I'll take a 50 watt Plexi......got the Les Paul last year for Christmas. (Now I just have to learn to play the dang thing...)

[Tanstaafl]

I'll take a 50 watt Plexi......got the Les Paul last year for Christmas. (Now I just have to learn to play the dang thing...)

If you've got neighbours that will put up with you cranking it up enough to get a good tone then I'm sincerely happy for you! :)

[Div6]

If you've got neighbours that will put up with you cranking it up enough to get a good tone then I'm sincerely happy for you! :)

You got it backwards mate, I need it to GET RID of the neighbors...:coolwink: