Scientology Settles with Debbie Cook

[Pooks]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/scientology_settles_debbie_cook.php

It's turning into quite a day of revelations for Scientology Watchers.

Earlier this morning we reported that charges had been dropped against Scientology executive Jan Eastgate in Australia.

And now, another stunning development: Marty Rathbun just reported at his blog that the Church of Scientology has settled its lawsuit against former church executive Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne Baumgarten.

I just confirmed this with Debbie's attorney, Ray Jeffrey, who tells me he really can't say anything else about the terms of the settlement

"The matter is settled. That's the full extent of it," he says.

[Claire Swazey]

Wow. If they settled, that probably means they gave up something.

That's interesting.

[FreeBeing]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/scientology_settles_debbie_cook.php

It's turning into quite a day of revelations for Scientology Watchers.

Earlier this morning we reported that charges had been dropped against Scientology executive Jan Eastgate in Australia.

And now, another stunning development: Marty Rathbun just reported at his blog that the Church of Scientology has settled its lawsuit against former church executive Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne Baumgarten.

I just confirmed this with Debbie's attorney, Ray Jeffrey, who tells me he really can't say anything else about the terms of the settlement

"The matter is settled. That's the full extent of it," he says.

I'm disappointed regarding both cases. Was the Jan Eastgate case dropped due to a statute of limitations? I'm not familiar with Aussie law. If Debbie Cook settled then I'm fairly sure $cientology had some form of confidentiality clause stipulated with the settlement ... sigh.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I'm sure at the cult's next Nuremberg Rally Miscavige will be telling them these cases went away because of the OT powers unleashed by releasing The L. Ron Hubbard 16-volume biographical encyclopedia of comedy and not because of the hush money they had to pay out.

... as he hits them up for more hush money to pay out and forces them to buy several copies of Hubbard's encyclopedia of comedy .

[R2-45]

$cn is one of the few organizations that has perfected the art of the strategy of winning by losing.

Could the Jan Eastgate outcome be related to the Debbie Cook outcome?

[Lulu Belle]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/scientology_settles_debbie_cook.php

It's turning into quite a day of revelations for Scientology Watchers.

Earlier this morning we reported that charges had been dropped against Scientology executive Jan Eastgate in Australia.

And now, another stunning development: Marty Rathbun just reported at his blog that the Church of Scientology has settled its lawsuit against former church executive Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne Baumgarten.

I just confirmed this with Debbie's attorney, Ray Jeffrey, who tells me he really can't say anything else about the terms of the settlement

"The matter is settled. That's the full extent of it," he says.


Well, no surprise there.

One thing that sucks about this is that a lot of people contributed to Debbie Cook's Legal Defense Fund.

If past history is any indication, everyone involved will go on lockdown and the people who helped fund this whole thing won't even get any information about the outcome, no less get any of their money back.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Not surprising that Debbie settled just to make it stop.

But, kind of interesting is the covenant of that agreement (per Rathbun's blog of today) that she agreed to not have any part of the Indie Scientology movement.
WHAT COULD THAT MEAN?!

So, (if true) it either means that:

1) She doesn't ever plan to get any auditing/training ever again in Scientology.


Or....

2) She plans to do her bridge in the Church of Scientology.


If it means she is off the Bridge, permanently, good for her. Good move.

If it means that she will return to the CoS to do her Bridge, OMG.

If this were a normal situation in life (not involving Scientology) #1 would be the only possible explanation.

But this is Scientology, where things do not need to make any sense.

So, it is quite conceivable (although wacky) that she might well be considering going back to the Mecca of Technical Perfection to get her case handled.

Wouldn't that be something?

Hoping she walks away from the Bridge and tries to get some enjoyment from the rest of her life.

[uniquemand]

She never said she wasn't a Scientologist anymore. In fact, she expressly stated that she IS a lifelong scientologist, and that her objections to the Church were based more in the abuses that the Church conducts in the name of Scientology than in the Scientology doctrines, themselves.

I doubt, from that, that she's never going to do scientology anymore, or that she'll never have anything to do with the Church again, but she'll probably be doing what she can to disable or destroy the cabal she feels has dominated the Church she said she loves.

Meanwhile, we all wait for Davie to have his final asthma attack.

[Mark A. Baker]

... And now, another stunning development: Marty Rathbun just reported at his blog that the Church of Scientology has settled its lawsuit against former church executive Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne Baumgarten. ...

So when will we be hearing from Rathbun that she took her "... payoff and slid off into the sunset" as he has stated of others who reached a court settlement?

Or are such deliberately insulting remarks reserved only for those whom Rathbun knows himself to have been criminally abused by LRH & the church and who were unwilling to pretend otherwise? :eyeroll:

As an interesting side note, it's an interesting feature of Rathbun's blog on the item that he has sought to soften the impact on his audience of any potential discrediting remarks subsequently emerging about either himself or Rinder.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/

Nothing surprising in any of this. Just the same old dance. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker

[Idle Morgue]

The DAMAGE is already DONE! Debbie Cook's e-mail has devastated the Church of Scientology and there will be more to come! :yes:

The Co$ put on the internet Debbie Cook signing a GAG order w/o an attorney. THAT WAS REALLY STUPID!:duh:

Now they pay her off to shut her up...does not look good. If the Church of Scientology had NOTHING to HIDE...they would have proceeded and not given her a dime!:ohmy: But the Church of Scientology has PLENTY TO HIDE!! CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!:angry:

This put a dent into Miss Cabbage's bank account, for sure! :happydance: More bad PR to the Co$ by now shutting her up. One thing about criminals...they ALWAYS get caught and they do really, really STUPID things!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

The truth is setting people free and KARMA is coming right back to the CULT of SCAMONOLOGY! :happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:

[Jquepublic]

Well, fuck.

Really hoped she'd take this thing all the way. :(

[Mick Wenlock]

Well, no surprise there.

One thing that sucks about this is that a lot of people contributed to Debbie Cook's Legal Defense Fund.

If past history is any indication, everyone involved will go on lockdown and the people who helped fund this whole thing won't even get any information about the outcome, no less get any of their money back.

well some of them would need to be concerned about the details of their privacy and their accounts.

and on lines scientologists who helped her need to be concerned about the kr that is going to come

[Mick Wenlock]

Well, fuck.

Really hoped she'd take this thing all the way. :(

I feel for you and a lot of others who hope it would happen.

I'm annoyed - and I never expected anything else other than this!

[Lone Star]

Well that's it! Goodnight everyone! Thanks for playing Scieno Court Watch! :clap: The game that always ends with a let down. :duh:

Next up...what will Lisa Marie do? ( Hint: Probably nothing)

[randomx]

Hello Debbie,

Congratulations on re establishing A.R.C. with The Church of Scientology, without compromising your reality.

You have declared to the world that the price of freedom is slavery.

You have declared to the world that human rights is actually abuse.

You have declared to the world that freedom of speech is all about not saying certain things about certain people.

You have declared to the world that free association means not associating with certain people.

You have declared to the world that freedom of thought means not thinking certain thoughts.

You have shown the world that justice is a contest to see who is the richest.

You are a true Scientologist.

Ron would be proud.


MY STORY

http://kiwianon.com/forums/index.php?topic=503.0

[NonScio]

Well, I would imagine she walked away with far more $$ than the original
$50 K they paid her...my guess it was in the millions... enough to
pay the lawyers 30% with lots left for her.

So, it can be done...those still "in" and "in the know" should think it
over...at least when they "route out" they should hold out for far
more than the 50k chickenfeed "hush money" that Cook got
when she checked out. If they have some inside dirt that is really "hot"
take the lawsuit/publicity route. Miscaviage will pay big when his bluff
is called...surely he is worried about personal consequences if the
full force of law is ever focused on him and his crimes.

[scooter]

I'd been hoping this wouldn't happen but sadly expecting it.

Cult got bitch-slapped big-time in the courtroom on this and had to make it go away - money's no object when DM's safety (ie His continuing time out of jail) is at risk.

Debbie and Wayne have invested a lot of their lives into the cult and now have to start again. Both have helped the cult big-time in getting money and new blood in. And have no real skills in anything else. And they never really stopped being in the cult mentally and emotionally - expecting a pay-out for good and faithful service.

For the cult, it's yet another Phyrric victory - they stop the courtroom battle (not win it, just stop it) yet lose the PR battle yet again.

And lose more former True Believers and get no new ones.

Which leaves the Baumgartens in an interesting position - they may now have money but they've lost their cult and their families still in, and have probably lost most of the new friends who flocked to help them once they left the cult.

I'd rather be in my position - slowly recovering sanity and finances and not having to stay in denial for the rest of my days.

[BunnySkull]

This is exactly what I predicted would happen, I only thought they might drag out the behind doors negotiating and legal filings to try and starve Debbie out a bit longer. Didn't have to she folded right quick as soon as the price was right.

I'm at least glad to see her noble dedication to saving Ron's tech was as authentic as CoS stats. Maybe she not as brainwashed as we thought, a true believer may have really tried to hang in their to save the tech from DM. She tossed Ron aside and grabbed the money, just like Ron would have done. She also got to milk the indies, who she wanted nothing to do with until she needed some cash.

I do find it hysterical that Marty and Mike just piss and shit talk any critics who have taken settlements in the past, but in Debbies case taking the money and stfu is a WIN and noble victory for the indies. Oh the irony.

[ILove2Lurk]

Does anybody remember how much hush money Mike Rinder was supposedly offered (and turned down) when DM's legal eagles cornered him in Denver in 2009?

Just wonderin'. :confused2:

That would give us a clue as to how much Debbie's deal would potentially be worth.

ILove2Lurk

[LA SCN]

Well, fuck.

Really hoped she'd take this thing all the way. :(

Me too. Absolutely. This is fucked up.

What is it gonna take to bring these muther fuckers down?

[Mick Wenlock]

Does anybody remember how much hush money Mike Rinder was supposedly offered (and turned down) when DM's legal eagles cornered him in Denver in 2009?

Just wonderin'. :confused2:

That would give us a clue as to how much Debbie's deal would potentially be worth.

ILove2Lurk

Debbie's deal was worth however much she had the guts to hold out from - so it could be anything from $50K to $5 million

I would guess it would closer to the lower figure than the higher. It all depends on the leverage the cofs could have had. And I am guessing they had a lot.

Scientologists are cowards, thats what Hubbard's crap creates.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Me too. Absolutely. This is fucked up.

What is it gonna take to bring these muther fuckers down?

Scientology will not suddenly come crashing down, it will slowly fade away and this process has been taking place for quite some time.


With every passing year they are smaller and less relevant,

so it's not a question of what's it going to take to bring them down,

since they are already down,

it's a question of how long will it be before the last one out turns off the lights.

make no mistake about it their condition is terminal, there will be no recovery for Hubbard's Cult.

[I told you I was trouble]

No business can flourish and prosper (lol) with any of the following factors in play and the cofs has the whole lot.

1. It has no tangible product whatsoever.
2. It has a lot of very disgruntled past customers, worldwide.
3. It has possibly the worst PR/press/past legal drama's known to man, it's reputation is in tatters.
4. It has a lot of current very disgruntled customers, worldwide.
5. It has the potential every single day for something else to come out and they won't know what or from where until it's too late.
6. They have ESMB which is full of people with very long memories (and docs) that have people they care about still trapped in the mind fuck.
7. They have the Indies that are prone to hissy fits and want the world to know that 'they have the technology' ... and that they have it cheaper!
8. They have Anonymous and the various other critics that don't like losing (even if it's 'just a game' to them).
9. Ordinary people (the potential fresh meat) find the whole thing very funny and very creepy (Hello Xenu!).


The cofs is just a pile of real estate (with some unfortunates trapped within it) pretending to be a church that has a philosophy that will 'save the planet'.

:melodramatic:

I wonder where will the next Debbie Cook surface from?

Yawn.

[Jump]

No business can flourish and prosper (lol) with any of the following factors in play and the cofs has the whole lot.

1. It has no tangible product whatsoever.
2. It has a lot of very disgruntled past customers, worldwide.
3. It has possibly the worst PR/press/past legal drama's known to man, it's reputation is in tatters.
4. It has a lot of current very disgruntled customers, worldwide.
5. It has the potential every single day for something else to come out and they won't know what or from where until it's too late.
6. They have ESMB which is full of people with very long memories (and docs) that have people they care about still trapped in the mind fuck.
7. They have the Indies that are prone to hissy fits and want the world to know that 'they have the technology' ... and that they have it cheaper!
8. They have Anonymous and the various other critics that don't like losing (even if it's 'just a game' to them).
9. Ordinary people (the potential fresh meat) find the whole thing very funny and very creepy (Hello Xenu!).


The cofs is just a real estate company pretending to be a church that has a philosophy that will 'save the planet'.

:melodramatic:

I wonder where will the next Debbie Cook surface from?

Yawn.




Which real estate company makes you



pay for your own house,
pay to restore it to pristine condition
or do all that work yourself for $1 per hour,
then takes the deeds from you
and then makes you have to pay rent thereafter
(along with every utility expense and upkeep)
?




That company wouldn't last too long either :duh:

[KissMyStats]

This really sucks. And as many of you said in this thread, it's going to be a slow death, dying out gradually, not a big crashing down. The only thing keeping it alive, or keeping it APPEARING to be alive, is their massive cash reserves and the few people left who keep on giving all their money to it. They could have this Truman Show propped up for quite awhile I suppose. Wow, this is depressing. Think I'll have some vodka and look at a protest video to cheer me up !

[Man de la Mancha]

well some... on lines scientologists who helped her need to be concerned about the kr that is going to come

If she rolls on her supporters, then the whole thing looks like a mission to put a few "heads on a pike" and show the devotees what will happen if they support dissenters.

[The_Fixer]

My guess is the clue for this whole deal is in how it started out.

Debbie is a dyed in the wool Scientologist. Her only beef was with Miscavige and his management of the church.

She intended no harm whatsoever to the CoS at all. However, her actions did turn out to become opposite to her intention.

Everyone has lost here. The CoS has lost money and even more face yet again.

I think for Debbie, it was never about the money. It was the ideals. She has lost here because DM is still running it and she is now out of the church in disgrace. I don't think she wanted this outcome at all. The money and the legal action finishing would be a relief, but that's about it, really.

She has now lost what was dear to her. She may become (sigh) a Marty or equivalent devotee now, if she decides to become a desperately seeking Susan. After all, technically, she is still a Scientologist.

Perhaps in time she will come to her senses about the cult and break out into some kind of sweat about how lucky she was to get away with this so lightly in the end.

I'm not sure that I would like to hold my breath over this one..

[Free to shine]

Village Voice...


UPDATE 2: For those who seem to think Debbie Cook walked away with a large cash payment, you might review the facts in this case first. I just had a lengthy talk with Scott Pilutik, our resident legal resident on Scientology matters. He reminds me what Cook was facing in this case: she had put out a single e-mail, expressing her religious feelings, and for that she had been sued by a church that was demanding $300,000 in damages and probably a lot more than that as the case went forward.

Cook had to be concerned about the draconian nature of the agreement she had signed in 2007, which was simply astounding in some of its terms. As Jeffrey had pointed out to me, if they strictly followed the terms of that agreement, the church was entitled to ask for millions in damages from Cook and Baumgarten.

At any time, however, the Church of Scientology could simply drop this case and walk away from it if they wanted to. So why, no matter how well Cook had been doing in this case so far -- and she had been doing very well -- would the church pay her to get out of the lawsuit?
More - http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/scientology_settles_debbie_cook.php



JustCallMeMary 2 hours ago in reply to Jgg

I think in the long run many will see that this case worked out OK, considering all factors involved.

One needs to keep in mind the NDA was violated by Debbie and her husband in order to get that email out. Brave as that was, it was done at a cost. That the court allowed Debbie to speak up further on the horrors of her experience and about "the hole' is to our advantage in our efforts to see this cult exposed but it was a limited 'win' because in the end, was there enough money to support a lawsuit against the church and an assured lengthy contested one against the Baumgarten's when such a NDA existed in the first place? I don't think so. If push came to shove, I doubt Mark and Mike would have gotten on the stand - being subject themselves to having signed some non disclosure type of agreements along the way through their history in the church - as is the church's standard operating proceedure with confidential matters. If they got up there at all, it might not have worked out to debbie's advantage. I think her lawyer was smart to settle this. Debbie is off facebook, she and her husband have probably gotten out of having to pay many thousands of dollars, as Tony updated us about above. But it is doubtful they walked away with any money beyond maybe having the balance of what must be enormous legal fees covered. I think it is important for people to see where their money went. The Hole is on record. The abuses are on record.

Will Debbie do an A-E and get back into the church? I doubt it. We shall see....


There is some really good discussion in the Comments section.

[Dave B.]

The cult really knows how to get MAX PR value out of these things. Eastgate charges dropped same day as the Cook case going away. Of course will be spun as massive victories. :melodramatic:

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Originally Posted by Jquepublic

Well, fuck.

Really hoped she'd take this thing all the way. :(
I think it boils down to one of two scenarios - they had dirt on her and pressured her into settling -or - they paid her to shut up. I don't know how much I believe Marty's comment, she settled to make them go away.

It is interesting, her e-mail was about putting in ethics on the church, but did that happen? No, not really. She did what all Sios did - put out a bunch of false PR to cover her real motives. Why am I not surprised?

Why did I believe it? Because I assumed she wanted what I wanted. Played again. Sigh.

Mimsey

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The cult really knows how to get MAX PR value out of these things. Eastgate charges dropped same day as the Cook case going away. Of course will be spun as massive victories. :melodramatic:

L Ron Hubbard being hauled away in handcuffs would have been spun as a massive victory, when reality is not part of the equation everything is a massive victory.

[freethinker]

Yes:yes:
$cn is one of the few organizations that has perfected the art of the strategy of winning by losing.

Could the Jan Eastgate outcome be related to the Debbie Cook outcome?

[LA SCN]

The cult really knows how to get MAX PR value out of these things. Eastgate charges dropped same day as the Cook case going away. Of course will be spun as massive victories. :melodramatic:

As far as the True Believers will ever know, it IS a massive victory. :angry:

[BunnySkull]

My guess is the clue for this whole deal is in how it started out.

Debbie is a dyed in the wool Scientologist. Her only beef was with Miscavige and his management of the church.

She intended no harm whatsoever to the CoS at all. However, her actions did turn out to become opposite to her intention.
Everyone has lost here. The CoS has lost money and even more face yet again.

I think for Debbie, it was never about the money. It was the ideals. She has lost here because DM is still running it and she is now out of the church in disgrace. I don't think she wanted this outcome at all. The money and the legal action finishing would be a relief, but that's about it, really.

She has now lost what was dear to her. She may become (sigh) a Marty or equivalent devotee now, if she decides to become a desperately seeking Susan. After all, technically, she is ..e..

Wait, what? If it was all about ideals and taking down DM and not about money then why the hell would she take the settlement and stfu? It's the polar opposite actions of a martyr or true believer. If it was really all about the delusional mission of "saving the tech from DM" then she'd still be fighting, no amount of money would deter her.

Also, she won't be doing anything with Marty. He's already hinting as part of her settlement she will have no contact with the indies and may be turning over info about Marty and others as part of her settlement.

I do wonder if some of the "under the radar" Scientologist who donated directly to Debbie will have their names turned over to the cult - Marty implies it is a likely condition of any settlement. Pretty fucked up if so, but then I don't think any one thought Debbie was a paragon of virtue and integrity.

Debbie basically went against the entire PR image she created to get cash from the indies - as someone who was fighting to save the most valuable technology on the planet from an SP! Maybe she just did what every Scientologist is suppose to do - ask herself "What would Ron do." All of us here know Ron would have fucked over everyone, taken the money and ran like hell - so Debbie was just following Ron.

I do wonder how much her husband may have had to do with this. One thing I can reveal now, that I heard directly from a involved party, was that Wayne had openly expressed a desire to return to the SO - no shit. This was after the court testimony and everything. I guess it makes some sense, where as Debbie had to work her ass off Wayne was probably a bit of a prince in the SO. He had no heavy exec work load, but was married to the queen bee. So he prolly got most of the perks, with none of the bullshit most SO members endure.

I just hope they weren't stupid enough to actually believe they could return to the CoS fold in any capacity if they cooperated and settled. I could see the cult making all kinds of promises but I hope the couple isn't deluded enough to believe they could ever have any type of cordial relationship with the cult or any of it's members. If they are insanely deludedly though I wonder if the cult would trot them out as repentant and make them testify to the evil influence of the indies and their attack on the church. Hoo boy, it's far fetched, but not impossible to think about when you have people as deluded and mixed up as those two. See a whole Freedumb magazine about Debbies trip to the dark side , lol.

Ah, well, it will be interesting to see if we ever hear from Debbie and Wayne again or if they will go off into the sunset like so many other former execs. I hope some insiders keep an eye out for any sightings of her having any type of involvement with the cult over the next few years.

[Mick Wenlock]

I think it boils down to one of two scenarios - they had dirt on her and pressured her into settling -or - they paid her to shut up. I don't know how much I believe Marty's comment, she settled to make them go away.

It is interesting, her e-mail was about putting in ethics on the church, but did that happen? No, not really. She did what all Sios did - put out a bunch of false PR to cover her real motives. Why am I not surprised?

Why did I believe it? Because I assumed she wanted what I wanted. Played again. Sigh.

Mimsey

and you know what Mimsey? We'll get played again, and again but you know what that shows? We are far better people than we were when we were in and we are far better people than they are now.

I would much rather be us than them.

[Mick Wenlock]

Wait, what? If it was all about ideals and taking down DM and not about money then why the hell would she take the settlement and stfu? It's the polar opposite actions of a martyr or true believer. If it was really all about the delusional mission of "saving the tech from DM" then she'd still be fighting, no amount of money would deter her.

Also, she won't be doing anything with Marty. He's already hinting as part of her settlement she will have no contact with the indies and may be turning over info about Marty and others as part of her settlement.

I do wonder if some of the "under the radar" Scientologist who donated directly to Debbie will have their names turned over to the cult - Marty implies it is a likely condition of any settlement. Pretty fucked up if so, but then I don't think any one thought Debbie was a paragon of virtue and integrity.

Debbie basically went against the entire PR image she created to get cash from the indies - as someone who was fighting to save the most valuable technology on the planet from an SP! Maybe she just did what every Scientologist is suppose to do - ask herself "What would Ron do." All of us here know Ron would have fucked over everyone, taken the money and ran like hell - so Debbie was just following Ron.

I do wonder how much her husband may have had to do with this. One thing I can reveal now, that I heard directly from a involved party, was that Wayne had openly expressed a desire to return to the SO - no shit. This was after the court testimony and everything. I guess it makes some sense, where as Debbie had to work her ass off Wayne was probably a bit of a prince in the SO. He had no heavy exec work load, but was married to the queen bee. So he prolly got most of the perks, with none of the bullshit most SO members endure.

I just hope they weren't stupid enough to actually believe they could return to the CoS fold in any capacity if they cooperated and settled. I could see the cult making all kinds of promises but I hope the couple isn't deluded enough to believe they could ever have any type of cordial relationship with the cult or any of it's members. If they are insanely deludedly though I wonder if the cult would trot them out as repentant and make them testify to the evil influence of the indies and their attack on the church. Hoo boy, it's far fetched, but not impossible to think about when you have people as deluded and mixed up as those two. See a whole Freedumb magazine about Debbies trip to the dark side , lol.

Ah, well, it will be interesting to see if we ever hear from Debbie and Wayne again or if they will go off into the sunset like so many other former execs. I hope some insiders keep an eye out for any sightings of her having any type of involvement with the cult over the next few years.

I have no more proof than Marty does but, like him, I know how the CofS operates and it will have gone for getting the maximum information for its buck. There is no doubt about that.

There would be no chance that the cofs would miss out on getting names, and I am thinking that Cook will throw everyone who reached out to her under the bus.

Anyone who thinks this person has any courage, any willingness to protect others should probably re-join the cofs. You would be gullible enough for the SO.

[Mick Wenlock]

I think it boils down to one of two scenarios - they had dirt on her and pressured her into settling -or - they paid her to shut up. I don't know how much I believe Marty's comment, she settled to make them go away.


the cofs had 35 years of dirt on her, a lot of it in her own handwriting.

[LA SCN]

Has there been any opinion from a legal who is familiar with the case, the original non-disclosure agreement and Debbie Cooks position, as to what the settlement agreement might be?

[freethinker]

I think it should be heavily promoted that, coincidentaly, the CO$ ended two potentialy devastating court cases in the same day. I think that should be writeen about in every newspaper in two countries with lots of questions as to how such a coincidence should occur.

That they should have such victory simultaneosly is just astoundingly against all odds. Hell, wouldn't winning the lottery have been easier? I don't ever recall any Corporation knocking off two major victories in one day.

What are the odds? This should be examined closely by the media.:biggrin:

[LA SCN]

the cofs had 35 years of dirt on her, a lot of it in her own handwriting.

Not only O/W writeups but the infinitely tedious Life History writeup.

God I / we were so naive.

And still are, I guess, hoping for some justice.

[Idle Morgue]

Debbie Cook did deliver an EFFECTIVE BLOW to the Cult that is Scientology. Now, she has probably received more GAG MONEY to shut up and not reveal any more truth about Miss Cabbage and his cabbage patch called the HOLE and the fact that there is no one monitoring his EVIL PURPOSE! :angry:

Now, Debbie Cook needs to pay back all the Indies that donated to her attorney fees. Then she needs to MAKE UP THE DAMAGE she did whilst CAPTAIN at FRAUD LAND BASE.:yes:

I, personally, would like for her to meet Maria Pia Gardini and APOLOGIZE to Maria for the extortion and evil behavior Debbie Cook exhibited by forcing her to donate her entire inheritance. That was really, really EVIL!

Then pay her all of the money she extorted from this poor woman, who was so very dedicated to this VICIOUS, EVIL GROUP!
:yes:
COME ON DEBBIE COOK - Pay Maria Pia Gardini back!
MAKE UP THE DAMAGE!!!

[freethinker]

What if Debbie was a plant in the field and Marty was the target and this was just a big show to get as much on Marty as possible to put an end to him?
Wait, what? If it was all about ideals and taking down DM and not about money then why the hell would she take the settlement and stfu? It's the polar opposite actions of a martyr or true believer. If it was really all about the delusional mission of "saving the tech from DM" then she'd still be fighting, no amount of money would deter her.

Also, she won't be doing anything with Marty. He's already hinting as part of her settlement she will have no contact with the indies and may be turning over info about Marty and others as part of her settlement.

I do wonder if some of the "under the radar" Scientologist who donated directly to Debbie will have their names turned over to the cult - Marty implies it is a likely condition of any settlement. Pretty fucked up if so, but then I don't think any one thought Debbie was a paragon of virtue and integrity.

Debbie basically went against the entire PR image she created to get cash from the indies - as someone who was fighting to save the most valuable technology on the planet from an SP! Maybe she just did what every Scientologist is suppose to do - ask herself "What would Ron do." All of us here know Ron would have fucked over everyone, taken the money and ran like hell - so Debbie was just following Ron.

I do wonder how much her husband may have had to do with this. One thing I can reveal now, that I heard directly from a involved party, was that Wayne had openly expressed a desire to return to the SO - no shit. This was after the court testimony and everything. I guess it makes some sense, where as Debbie had to work her ass off Wayne was probably a bit of a prince in the SO. He had no heavy exec work load, but was married to the queen bee. So he prolly got most of the perks, with none of the bullshit most SO members endure.

I just hope they weren't stupid enough to actually believe they could return to the CoS fold in any capacity if they cooperated and settled. I could see the cult making all kinds of promises but I hope the couple isn't deluded enough to believe they could ever have any type of cordial relationship with the cult or any of it's members. If they are insanely deludedly though I wonder if the cult would trot them out as repentant and make them testify to the evil influence of the indies and their attack on the church. Hoo boy, it's far fetched, but not impossible to think about when you have people as deluded and mixed up as those two. See a whole Freedumb magazine about Debbies trip to the dark side , lol.

Ah, well, it will be interesting to see if we ever hear from Debbie and Wayne again or if they will go off into the sunset like so many other former execs. I hope some insiders keep an eye out for any sightings of her having any type of involvement with the cult over the next few years.

[Mick Wenlock]

The cult really knows how to get MAX PR value out of these things. Eastgate charges dropped same day as the Cook case going away. Of course will be spun as massive victories. :melodramatic:

Actually they will be 'sold" as evidence that the IAS is both needed and doing what it is supposed to be doing - funding the defense of Scientology. It will be used both to stroke the believers and to dun them for more.

The believers will be happy that mere money was used to shut Cook up - it will prove to them that a) she was only ever about greed and b) that it was better to end it quickly than fight it out on the enemy's field.

The Eastgate one will be used to show the faithful that they need only stay within the fold and they will be protected.

The message will be very clear - stay faithful and be protected, turn traitor and you will be cast out and shut up.

[Dave B.]

L Ron Hubbard being hauled away in handcuffs would have been spun as a massive victory, when reality is not part of the equation everything is a massive victory.

The words Reality Challenged spring to mind. The cult is all PR, all sizzle no beef. Just like their "tech". Delusional.

One thing I see out of all this, is that they're playing defence on these. So the cult managed to knock a couple guys off the castle walls but good luck on stemming the flow that's coming their way.

Bring up the catapults and battering ram!!

[Free to shine]

Tampa Bay (SP Times) article now up:



Former Clearwater Scientology leader settles lawsuit with church

By Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writers
Posted: Apr 24, 2012 07:13 PM

Cook said her testimony represented only a small part of what she wanted to say, "the tip of the iceberg." But it appeared Tuesday that the settlement will prevent her from ever speaking again about her experience in the church.

Her Texas lawyer, Ray Jeffrey, said the church's case has been dismissed and that neither he nor Cook could say anything about it. Jeffrey declined to answer even the most fundamental questions about the case.

Cook's personal web site, which was operating Monday, was shut down by Tuesday afternoon. Her Facebook page was dark as well.

Pouw declined to comment Tuesday, saying the settlement, called a stipulated injunction, speaks for itself. The Bexar County court system in San Antonio did not immediately make a copy of the document available.

Whole article - http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

[Mick Wenlock]

What if Debbie was a plant in the field and Marty was the target and this was just a big show to get as much on Marty as possible to put an end to him?

You are kidding. The CofS already HAS all the data on Rathbun (and Rinder) from all their willing times of writing OWs and abasing themselves.

But since they have been out what could the cofs nail them for?

They have not done anything!

[Arthur Dent]

Did you ever ask yourself "what would Ron do?"...no just kidding....did you ever ask yourself what you would do if you were in a legal situation with the cult and got offered a sizable settlement? Hard question to answer without a check being put in front of you. When this happens I am always disappointed but glad to see the church's (wait is it really theirs??) money going to people who put up with so much shit. In this case I am aware Debbie was the victim in the end of her career but also victimized others. It's what's done in scientology. It's really a very rough crowd to hang with.

Nonetheless, I'm glad she's got some money. Crap pay for so long finally paid off.
And if she did get a bundle, I do hope she does some soul searching and makes it up to some people. Debbie, ya reading this? Congratulations on the dough! Now, do some good! Fair is fair!

[Dave B.]

Did you ever ask yourself "what would Ron do?"...no just kidding....did you ever ask yourself what you would do if you were in a legal situation with the cult and got offered a sizable settlement? Hard question to answer without a check being put in front of you. When this happens I am always disappointed but glad to see the church's (wait is it really theirs??) money going to people who put up with so much shit. In this case I am aware Debbie was the victim in the end of her career but also victimized others. It's what's done in scientology. It's really a very rough crowd to hang with.

Nonetheless, I'm glad she's got some money. Crap pay for so long finally paid off.
And if she did get a bundle, I do hope she does some soul searching and makes it up to some people. Debbie, ya reading this? Congratulations on the dough! Now, do some good! Fair is fair!

Well, it's my fucking money! 57k of it is mine, and I want it. Fucking cult scammers.

[Free to shine]

Has there been any opinion from a legal who is familiar with the case, the original non-disclosure agreement and Debbie Cooks position, as to what the settlement agreement might be?

There are some legal opinions in the Comments section at Village Voice, look for John P and T1kk
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/scientology_settles_debbie_cook.php

Just found John P also commented on Marty's blog:

John P. | April 24, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Reply

I think an important legacy of this case will be the court transcript, with testimony under oath from Debbie Cook about her treatment, which will be far more readily visible than damning testimony from prior court cases, thanks to the magic of the Internet.

But I think an equally important legacy of the case will be the trail of documents, particularly the correspondence between Mr. Jeffery, Debbie’s attorney, and the Scientology-retained law firm. Those letters, particularly Mr. Jeffery’s requests for production and of topics to be covered in depositions, hinted strongly at a strategy that probably played a significant factor in the Church’s decision to settle — he laid bare the Church’s tactics of intimidation of people involved in the litigation.

To do that, Mr. Jeffery had to have had advance knowledge of what they were likely to do. In other words, when Mr. Jeffery asked the Church to produce all surveillance video of him and his staff, he would have had to have already developed clear evidence that he was under surveillance, enough evidence to find out who was ultimately behind the surveillance. And with that evidence in hand, had the church not admitted to further misbehavior, he could have nailed them for criminal perjury, which would have dug the hole even deeper for Miscavige and Co.

So with the permanent record of your blog and the Village Voice on the case, this settlement will mark a turning point for those who are chafing under the unconscionable non-disclosure agreements, because their counsel, if they’re sued, will have a very effective strategy pre-developed, and they’ll have an even greater chance of winning. From here on out, the more people that break the non-disclosure agreements, the less the Church will be able to do to prevent it. They’ll be overwhelmed.

[GreyLensman]

Not surprising that Debbie settled just to make it stop.

But, kind of interesting is the covenant of that agreement (per Rathbun's blog of today) that she agreed to not have any part of the Indie Scientology movement.
WHAT COULD THAT MEAN?!

So, (if true) it either means that:

1) She doesn't ever plan to get any auditing/training ever again in Scientology.


Or....

2) She plans to do her bridge in the Church of Scientology.


If it means she is off the Bridge, permanently, good for her. Good move.

If it means that she will return to the CoS to do her Bridge, OMG.

If this were a normal situation in life (not involving Scientology) #1 would be the only possible explanation.

But this is Scientology, where things do not need to make any sense.

So, it is quite conceivable (although wacky) that she might well be considering going back to the Mecca of Technical Perfection to get her case handled.

Wouldn't that be something?

Hoping she walks away from the Bridge and tries to get some enjoyment from the rest of her life.

I can't imagine her trusting any auditor within the church enough to say, well, anything to him or her of substance. I wouldn't.

I doubt she agreed not to have anything to do with an unofficial sect of the Church that the Church can't admit even really could exist viably. And how do you enforce that? How do you define independent without making it pretty much anything outside of official corporate Scio?

I hope she has a life, sure - but I also hope she finds it in herself to undo some of the damage she was part of. To repair some of the lives she destroyed, to an extent that she can. To expose actual crimes would bring some of that to rest, but that's likely dreaming.

That damage done doesn't go away because her life and condition becomes sympathetic.

[freethinker]

They spent a lot of time and money on the Squirrel Buster thing, they must want something and what they have on them for what they did in the CO$ involves the CO$. They may want separation to show that it was just him not following orders and to disrupt the Indy field.

They may just be looking for something he is doing now. It's merely a possibilty, not an actuality.
You are kidding. The CofS already HAS all the data on Rathbun (and Rinder) from all their willing times of writing OWs and abasing themselves.

But since they have been out what could the cofs nail them for?

They have not done anything!

[Mick Wenlock]

Did you ever ask yourself "what would Ron do?"...no just kidding....did you ever ask yourself what you would do if you were in a legal situation with the cult and got offered a sizable settlement? Hard question to answer without a check being put in front of you. When this happens I am always disappointed but glad to see the church's (wait is it really theirs??) money going to people who put up with so much shit. In this case I am aware Debbie was the victim in the end of her career but also victimized others. It's what's done in scientology. It's really a very rough crowd to hang with.

Nonetheless, I'm glad she's got some money. Crap pay for so long finally paid off.
And if she did get a bundle, I do hope she does some soul searching and makes it up to some people. Debbie, ya reading this? Congratulations on the dough! Now, do some good! Fair is fair!


forgetting something Arthur?

How much money did she make in bonuses? enough to buy, what, a BMW?, one year...

Cook spent more on a car than I made in total in 13 years in the SO.

For 15 years she was ripping cold hard cash from the faithful - and you think she should get MORE money from them for all the suffering she did ripping them off?

Seriously dude you need to take off your rose colored glasses. Whatever money she got came from those same poor saps she exploited for over a decade.

Damn. You expect her to DO GOOD? Puleeeezzze.

[Mick Wenlock]

They spent a lot of time and money on the Squirrel Buster thing, they must want something and what they have on them for what they did in the CO$ involves the CO$. They may want separation to show that it was just him not following orders and to disrupt the Indy field.

They may just be looking for something he is doing now. It's merely a possibilty, not an actuality.

Hi free, didn't mean to look like I was jumpin' on ya.

But rathbun is a sideshow, if he was really a threat do you think they would send a clown troupe? They already have people inside and if the evidence they would "need" is small time.

the biggest threat to the CofS is obvious - it's ESMB.

[LA SCN]

the biggest threat to the CofS is obvious - it's ESMB.

HELL FUCKIN' YEAH !!

We still have Free Speech and this outcome is a great example of why it is important.

[BardoThodol]

I don't mind contributing money to good causes.

Glad, glad, glad that I didn't give a dime to this--even though I was sometimes tempted.

Just figured it wouldn't end with anything but the whisper of cockroaches scurrying back where they hide.

Would watch Debbie's interviews and think, "uhn-uhn, something shifty going on with this woman." She just didn't strike me as someone who took care of herself.

[Lure Rob & Hyde]

Well, no surprise there.

One thing that sucks about this is that a lot of people contributed to Debbie Cook's Legal Defense Fund.

If past history is any indication, everyone involved will go on lockdown and the people who helped fund this whole thing won't even get any information about the outcome, no less get any of their money back.


I concur with you on the treachery perpetrated by "Dizzy" Cook on those whom she appealed to for funding then spat in their faces.
Her lust for power, attention and assertion of self importance with no empathy for others has been her digusting life story.
She professed to be a lover of the blubbard and was a former enforcer of his garbage-ology .
All hubbardites are not to be trusted period .
They will lie, cheat, misrepresent ,steal and harm others while emulating the conman hubbard in their hypnotic quest to strive for superiority .
Scientology is really evil barbarism cloaked in a religious costume.
I joyfully did not contribute one penny to the deluded bitch!
Further I will never contribute to any one taking on the cult without them first denouncing hubbard the charlatan publicly along with the mention of his hideous crimes. .

[Free to shine]

Re discussion of donations, just saw this on Marty's blog:


martyrathbun09 | April 24, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Reply

Email me your address and I’ll have the refund in the mail tomorrow.


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/

[LA SCN]

Before the unfounded speculation gets wilder than in the Zimmerman case, this excerpt from here:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

gives some actual data on the settlement:

"The next hearing in the lawsuit was scheduled for May 7. Now Cook, the church and their respective attorneys have laid down their arms. The agreement dated Monday allows both sides to essentially call it even and go their separate ways. Neither pays the other side money, and Cook and her husband are legally prohibited from ever again speaking ill of the church.

Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone, be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

So where is the money some of you are talking about?

[freethinker]

What you say is true about ESMB. But they did spend time and money on them. It may have been all a waste of time. It may have been just to annoy Marty but the CO$ does all these things that are crazy and bizarre that most sane individuals wouldn't do because they are not protecting deep dark lies and crimes.

I just wouldn't put any crazy scheme beyond them no matter how ludicrous it may seem. The way they tried to frame Paulette Cooper was bizarre. LSD in toothpaste, what sort of mind thinks of that? Marty may very well be insignificant but they do spend money on him.

I just wouldn't put any bizarre quirky idea past them to get a result. The only thing you can predict is that they will do something fucked up, so I put myself in a devious fucked up mind frame when I think of what they might do.:yes:
Hi free, didn't mean to look like I was jumpin' on ya.

But rathbun is a sideshow, if he was really a threat do you think they would send a clown troupe? They already have people inside and if the evidence they would "need" is small time.

the biggest threat to the CofS is obvious - it's ESMB.

[Free to shine]

Before the unfounded speculation gets wilder than in the Zimmerman case, this excerpt from here:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

gives some actual data on the settlement:

"The next hearing in the lawsuit was scheduled for May 7. Now Cook, the church and their respective attorneys have laid down their arms. The agreement dated Monday allows both sides to essentially call it even and go their separate ways. Neither pays the other side money, and Cook and her husband are legally prohibited from ever again speaking ill of the church.

Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone, be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

So where is the money some of you are talking about?

Thanks, I totally missed that! :duh:
Reading too much too fast...

[freethinker]

I don't fucking buy that, the church is getting what they wanted all along and no money is given up on either side. And how is she paying for that lawyer and getting her business going again?

Good fight, we'll call it a draw. WTF?
Before the unfounded speculation gets wilder than in the Zimmerman case, this excerpt from here:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

gives some actual data on the settlement:

"The next hearing in the lawsuit was scheduled for May 7. Now Cook, the church and their respective attorneys have laid down their arms. The agreement dated Monday allows both sides to essentially call it even and go their separate ways. Neither pays the other side money, and Cook and her husband are legally prohibited from ever again speaking ill of the church.

Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone, be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

So where is the money some of you are talking about?

[Sindy]

Before the unfounded speculation gets wilder than in the Zimmerman case, this excerpt from here:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

gives some actual data on the settlement:

"The next hearing in the lawsuit was scheduled for May 7. Now Cook, the church and their respective attorneys have laid down their arms. The agreement dated Monday allows both sides to essentially call it even and go their separate ways. Neither pays the other side money, and Cook and her husband are legally prohibited from ever again speaking ill of the church.

Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone, be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

So where is the money some of you are talking about?

Hi everyone :wave:

and it continues...

"The church walks away having suffered through a day of brutal testimony that remains in the public record. Cook and her husband are back where they started before Cook sent out a New Year's Eve email to thousands of Scientologists that criticized the church's money raising tactics, questioned church management and called on parishioners to push for reforms. The church filed its lawsuit Jan. 27, alleging she violated a confidentiality agreement she signed when she left the church staff in 2007."

No, they are not back where they started. They are a lot less free.

[Ho Tai]

Wow. If they settled, that probably means they gave up something.

That's interesting.
Not sure who you mean by "they", but if it's Cook and Baumgartner, they gave up the right to speak out in exchange for a shot at their eternal freedom. If "they" is CoS, it frustrates me to say that they gave up squat. They had the standard tech hold on Cook and played that card. If you are a true believer, you are screwed.

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I still maintain the church as real dirt on them and they used it to shut them up - their usual MO. mimsey

[LA SCN]

Hi everyone :wave:

and it continues...

"The church walks away having suffered through a day of brutal testimony that remains in the public record. Cook and her husband are back where they started before Cook sent out a New Year's Eve email to thousands of Scientologists that criticized the church's money raising tactics, questioned church management and called on parishioners to push for reforms. The church filed its lawsuit Jan. 27, alleging she violated a confidentiality agreement she signed when she left the church staff in 2007."

No, they are not back where they started. They are a lot less free.

Exactly.

As of Monday they've had their one and only Free Pass.

Should she go public again, she is legal toast.

[Anonycat]

Hoping and praying she has someone in her posse ready to come to bat next.

[LA SCN]

I still maintain the church as real dirt on them and they used it to shut them up - their usual MO. mimsey

That may well be.

But they also had: a) a signed non-disclosure agreement which she violated;

(she never claimed she didn't violate it, she claimed it was signed under duress which claim the church gave her no chance to prove.)

and b) the advice of a good lawyer, who I believe told her to take the deal and stfu or be prepared to pay HUGE dollars and years to either her lawyers or the CofS or possibly both.

[GoNuclear]

Not surprising that Debbie settled just to make it stop.

But, kind of interesting is the covenant of that agreement (per Rathbun's blog of today) that she agreed to not have any part of the Indie Scientology movement.
WHAT COULD THAT MEAN?!

So, (if true) it either means that:

1) She doesn't ever plan to get any auditing/training ever again in Scientology.


Or....

2) She plans to do her bridge in the Church of Scientology.


If it means she is off the Bridge, permanently, good for her. Good move.

If it means that she will return to the CoS to do her Bridge, OMG.

If this were a normal situation in life (not involving Scientology) #1 would be the only possible explanation.

But this is Scientology, where things do not need to make any sense.

So, it is quite conceivable (although wacky) that she might well be considering going back to the Mecca of Technical Perfection to get her case handled.

Wouldn't that be something?

Hoping she walks away from the Bridge and tries to get some enjoyment from the rest of her life.

I don't blame her or judge her. She has a debilitating physical condition, the fibro myalgia, is in her 50's, and needs the headaches of ongoing litigation with the Cof$ about as much as a hole in the head. The Cof$ probably paid her some money and purchased some silence, as well as knocking out a heavy hitting team member off the Marty crew. The only question is what was the cash price. The alternative? Look what they did to Jerry Armstrong. If there was ever a posterboy for Scientological harrassment, it is Jerry, with that rediculous 50k per utterance clause that they actually have been trying to enforce. But with the Cof$, it doesn't stop with lawyers. As Stacy Young (later Stacy Minton) of the LMT said, they come at you like the terminator, and will use all manner of dirty tricks to influence the outcome of a trial/sabotage your case.

As I see it, the most effective counter if you were fighting a case against them on the defense would be to go the Freeman on the Land route. If you google that, you will come up with all manner of interesting info. There are all manner of changes and complications that go along with that, but, once done properly, there is absolutely nothing for the Cof$ to go after with all of their high powered legal help, since they can only proceed against your legal fiction "person" which is a type of trust, and, once collapsed, they are left raging in their cage with nothing to proceed against. It may ALSO be a possible offense strategy, going after them not via court action but rather by filing UCC liens against them, haven't studied enough on that yet.

Pete

[freethinker]

Welcome back Sindy.:)
Hi everyone :wave:

and it continues...

"The church walks away having suffered through a day of brutal testimony that remains in the public record. Cook and her husband are back where they started before Cook sent out a New Year's Eve email to thousands of Scientologists that criticized the church's money raising tactics, questioned church management and called on parishioners to push for reforms. The church filed its lawsuit Jan. 27, alleging she violated a confidentiality agreement she signed when she left the church staff in 2007."

No, they are not back where they started. They are a lot less free.

[The_Fixer]

Wait, what? If it was all about ideals and taking down DM and not about money then why the hell would she take the settlement and stfu? It's the polar opposite actions of a martyr or true believer. If it was really all about the delusional mission of "saving the tech from DM" then she'd still be fighting, no amount of money would deter her.

Also, she won't be doing anything with Marty. He's already hinting as part of her settlement she will have no contact with the indies and may be turning over info about Marty and others as part of her settlement.

I do wonder if some of the "under the radar" Scientologist who donated directly to Debbie will have their names turned over to the cult - Marty implies it is a likely condition of any settlement. Pretty fucked up if so, but then I don't think any one thought Debbie was a paragon of virtue and integrity.

Debbie basically went against the entire PR image she created to get cash from the indies - as someone who was fighting to save the most valuable technology on the planet from an SP! Maybe she just did what every Scientologist is suppose to do - ask herself "What would Ron do." All of us here know Ron would have fucked over everyone, taken the money and ran like hell - so Debbie was just following Ron.

I do wonder how much her husband may have had to do with this. One thing I can reveal now, that I heard directly from a involved party, was that Wayne had openly expressed a desire to return to the SO - no shit. This was after the court testimony and everything. I guess it makes some sense, where as Debbie had to work her ass off Wayne was probably a bit of a prince in the SO. He had no heavy exec work load, but was married to the queen bee. So he prolly got most of the perks, with none of the bullshit most SO members endure.

I just hope they weren't stupid enough to actually believe they could return to the CoS fold in any capacity if they cooperated and settled. I could see the cult making all kinds of promises but I hope the couple isn't deluded enough to believe they could ever have any type of cordial relationship with the cult or any of it's members. If they are insanely deludedly though I wonder if the cult would trot them out as repentant and make them testify to the evil influence of the indies and their attack on the church. Hoo boy, it's far fetched, but not impossible to think about when you have people as deluded and mixed up as those two. See a whole Freedumb magazine about Debbies trip to the dark side , lol.

Ah, well, it will be interesting to see if we ever hear from Debbie and Wayne again or if they will go off into the sunset like so many other former execs. I hope some insiders keep an eye out for any sightings of her having any type of involvement with the cult over the next few years.

A few other things to consider here.

She has been a scio for many years and is probably unable to think like we do any more. She has probably written the original email hoping upon a groundswell of support from her fellow scios, which probably didn't materialise as well as she hoped for. I'll bet all those who did are running for cover right now.

She now faces a life ahead without scientology and its network. Scary prospect for a scio that still wants to be in.

Has she dished a lot of nasty stuff out herself over the years? It's quite a bit different being on the receiving end of it.

Add to that, no job (?), money prospects fading fast, cut off from the only world she knows and facing a huge legal threat. Her only supporters are her sworn enemies. A terrifying situation to be in. She would be quite aware of what the CoS is capable of.

It may have been too scary for her. Fear can override altruism.

Just looking at the latest posts, it looks like she was offered a way back in. Only she doesn't realise what she is now giving up. She isn't just dealing with OSA, but everything that is above that as well.

I wonder if we'll be hearing from her again?

[LA SCN]

I wonder if we'll be hearing from her again?

Not according to the terms of her settlement.

[GoNuclear]

I'd been hoping this wouldn't happen but sadly expecting it.

Cult got bitch-slapped big-time in the courtroom on this and had to make it go away - money's no object when DM's safety (ie His continuing time out of jail) is at risk.

Debbie and Wayne have invested a lot of their lives into the cult and now have to start again. Both have helped the cult big-time in getting money and new blood in. And have no real skills in anything else. And they never really stopped being in the cult mentally and emotionally - expecting a pay-out for good and faithful service.

For the cult, it's yet another Phyrric victory - they stop the courtroom battle (not win it, just stop it) yet lose the PR battle yet again.

And lose more former True Believers and get no new ones.

Which leaves the Baumgartens in an interesting position - they may now have money but they've lost their cult and their families still in, and have probably lost most of the new friends who flocked to help them once they left the cult.

I'd rather be in my position - slowly recovering sanity and finances and not having to stay in denial for the rest of my days.

Personally, I'd take the money and run if it was substantial enough. She already scored one heck of a shot on those b'tards anyways, time to move on. Meanwhile, if there is one guy out there who has caught more of their crap than any other single individual, it is Jerry Armstrong, who will be haunted by Cof$ hired PI's either for the rest of his life or until the Cof$ is dismantled. It is a carrot vs. stick situation. I hope she received at least into the 7 figures, which would be fair considering not only the years of service but also the damage that Cof$ did to her as far as disconnecting her from her clientelle in her business.

Pete

[The_Fixer]

Not according to the terms of her settlement.

I was meaning will she go "MIA" like shelly?

[LA SCN]

I was meaning will she go "MIA" like shelly?

I got'cha - time will tell...

[Mark A. Baker]

I still maintain the church as real dirt on them and they used it to shut them up - their usual MO. mimsey

What is overlooked is that legally the church has a reasonable case to make concerning contract violation as well as the resources to drag this thing out for a very great time to come. That would be a world of potential hurt for Cook with a reasonable prospect of an eventual loss and little likelihood of a timely payout in the case of a 'win', at least not in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe. The Co$ are experts at delaying action. So even a 'win' could wind up bankrupting Cook, a 'loss' would just be a quicker death. In such circumstances taking the 'easy way out' is a sensible alternative, especially in light of the present health & financial difficulties being faced by Cook. Both sides drop present litigation and Cook can get on with her life.

Litigation is not a fun nor especially profitable activity on the whole, which is why cases overwhelmingly settle rather than get taken to court. That is the biggest ace in the hole that the church has: intimidation through the threat of extended litigation. It's an excellent reason to beat a tactical retreat and attorneys commonly advise minimizing risk and seeking a graceful way out.


Mark A. Baker

[Smurf]

I was meaning will she go "MIA" like shelly?

She's taken down her Facebook page (Wayne's page is still up). Her personal site has been down for "maintenance" for nearly a month.

http://www.debbiecookbaumgarten.com/

[LA SCN]

What is overlooked is that legally the church has a reasonable case to make concerning contract violation as well as the resources to drag this thing out for a very great time to come. That would be a world of potential hurt for Cook with a reasonable prospect of an eventual loss and little likelihood of a timely payout in the case of a 'win', at least not in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe. The Co$ are experts at delaying action. So even a 'win' could wind up bankrupting Cook, a 'loss' would just be a quicker death. In such circumstances taking the 'easy way out' is a sensible alternative, especially in light of the present health & financial difficulties being faced by Cook. Both sides drop present litigation and Cook can get on with her life.

Litigation is not a fun nor especially profitable activity on the whole, which is why cases overwhelmingly settle rather than get taken to court. That is the biggest ace in the hole that the church has: intimidation through the threat of extended litigation. It's an excellent reason to beat a tactical retreat and attorneys commonly advise minimizing risk and seeking a graceful way out.


Mark A. Baker

Oh Good! You read my post! :thumbsup::biggrin:


That may well be.

But they also had: a) a signed non-disclosure agreement which she violated;

(she never claimed she didn't violate it, she claimed it was signed under duress which claim the church gave her no chance to prove.)

and b) the advice of a good lawyer, who I believe told her to take the deal and stfu or be prepared to pay HUGE dollars and years to either her lawyers or the CofS or possibly both.

:hysterical:

[Hatshepsut]

Originally posted by The_Fixer

Just looking at the latest posts, it looks like she was offered a way back in. Only she doesn't realise what she is now giving up. She isn't just dealing with OSA, but everything that is above that as well.

I wonder if we'll be hearing from her again?



NAW, she can't go back in. She has to shy away from Independents but you can bet she knows how to get what she wants from private individuals .....who would NOT talk. That's if she is still a true believer. If life's taught her anything, it's that she needs her allies. She won't be a lone wolf, she just won't make herself obvious. As her mentor LRH said, "Being right is the strongest intention in the universe." I read that yesterday when I was throwing out Class VIII course materials.

She SHOULD look up that Freeman on the Land thing. Threatening to reveal the rest of the iceberg and tell what Davy did with all that money makes her a leper to churchies IMHO. There is NOT going to be any forgiveness on that count.

[Stat]

Threatening to reveal the rest of the iceberg and tell what Davy did with all that money makes her a leper to churchies IMHO.

Exactly. Debbie should demand some mils from DM (unless the new bank account is already created unofficially),
move to Canada or some place, take some lessons from Gerry Armstrong and reveal the fuck out of the rest of the iceberg already.

[Stat]

What is this shit, seriously? Is this 2012 or 1984?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1226702.ece

"Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone,
be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

[idrizomare]

Caveat: I have no inside information. This is pure speculation and observation.

If the newspaper is correct and (almost) no money changed hands, then not a bad outcome for CofS. They now (presumably) have an agreement that Debbie says nothing about CofS and does not associate with anyone who says bad things about CofS. This agreement I'm sure they can say was not signed under duress.

Yeah, they had Debbie's testimony about the Hole, but none of that was new news.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but it's been a while since Scientology sued someone for saying bad things about them. Rather than the church turning tail to run due to this case, maybe they're returning to an old strategy. And not a bad one, really. By suing, Scientology creates a new problem in an enemy's life that becomes a bargaining chip. Since Scientology filed the lawsuit, Scientology can walk away from the litigation whenever its wants. Maybe with a nice agreement in their pocket.

Wasn't this incident over in a hurry? We went from Debbie's letter to the settlement in less than 4 months.

The case must be a huge blow to Marty, despite his spin. He'd been telling his flock for months that the threat of litigation was gone, but now it looks like it's back and with the familiar old pattern. The defendant's alternatives are to sign a confidentiality agreement or face years of litigation.

Marty repeats his usual threat: certain bad things better not happen or the gloves come off. I always assumed he was blowing smoke, but maybe there's something there. If they were willing to sue Debbie Cook, why not Marty? Are Marty and Scientology in some sort of uneasy stand-off? Assuming Marty knows anything sufficiently damaging (yeah, it's a stretch), he can't use it lightly if it's the only thing keeping him out of civil court. It has to be saved for doomsday.

In return for bowing out of the case, Marty says that he demanded that nothing damage the "win" of Feb 9 and 10. Such a nice guy to make demands about a settlement to which he's not a party.

Oh well. Isn't this always the way litigation with CofS goes?

[Mark A. Baker]

What is this shit, seriously? Is this 2012 or 1984? ...

No. It's called 'contract law'.


Mark A. Baker

[Stat]

No. It's called 'contract law'.


Mark A. Baker

I know. But it's the Internet Age. We will see.

[Freeminds]

I know. But it's the Internet Age. We will see.

Scientology's usual Achilles' Heel, the Internet, represents the unknown quantity in that settlement. It's just too easy for a person to conceal their identity, on-line. It makes a gagging order simultaneously worthless, and powerful.

If Debbie Cook could suppress her ego and avoid talking about how she was a high-ranking exec, she could become just another unknown critic on the Internet, and (with a little technical know-how, and some precautions) I don't see how she could be stopped from posting things that are critical of Miscavige and the mainstream Scientology cult. All that is required is that she operates anonymously. (Will Debbie Cook be able to become a new Scamizdat? No: I don't think so. She's still suffering the Hubbardite mindfuck, at least for now.)

On the other hand, if somebody who doesn't like CofS and Miscavige also feels that Debbie Cook "has it coming", they could use the Internet to post critical messages in her name... getting extra attention for whatever they might say, with the added bonus of getting Debbie Cook hauled back into court. A person who contributed to Cook's legal costs and feels that she let them down, for instance.

So this is weird, but the best defense against being accused of violating the terms of the settlement... is that there are lots of Debbie Cooks on the Internet, all saying mean things about the asthmatic dwarf and his gang.

Jet-age UFO cult legal tech meets Information-age anarchy tech, in the information medium. This is going to be messy.

[degraded being]

So the story according to Otega (hope I am paraphrasing accurately)....is that the COS could have walked away at anytime because they were sueing her. And if they had persisted Debbie may have been up for $300 000 or more. So it's good for Dangeous Debbie that COS dropped it and not too bad that she had to promise to shut up about antything bad about the cult, to anyone, forever!

That doesn't look right to me. They HAD TO!!!!! get her to STFU!!!! She had already put them right in the poo bin and was likely to bring out all sorts of other terrible things. It would be worth paying a LOT for stopping that. If they just walked away, where would that leave them? With a totally useless gag order, and that could start floodgates of others.

They did not walk away because they HAD to negotiate with her. I do not believe that she was not paid somehow. If it wasn't a payment, she must have been given something to keep her trap shut....and it has to be forever, remember.

If they didn't, they could NOT just walk away. Am I missing something....?

[Mick Wenlock]

What is overlooked is that legally the church has a reasonable case to make concerning contract violation as well as the resources to drag this thing out for a very great time to come. That would be a world of potential hurt for Cook with a reasonable prospect of an eventual loss and little likelihood of a timely payout in the case of a 'win', at least not in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe. The Co$ are experts at delaying action. So even a 'win' could wind up bankrupting Cook, a 'loss' would just be a quicker death. In such circumstances taking the 'easy way out' is a sensible alternative, especially in light of the present health & financial difficulties being faced by Cook. Both sides drop present litigation and Cook can get on with her life.

Litigation is not a fun nor especially profitable activity on the whole, which is why cases overwhelmingly settle rather than get taken to court. That is the biggest ace in the hole that the church has: intimidation through the threat of extended litigation. It's an excellent reason to beat a tactical retreat and attorneys commonly advise minimizing risk and seeking a graceful way out.


Mark A. Baker


Well Mark you and I have been saying exactly that since this thing started (being a kind of milestone thing cos we actually agree on something LOL)

But here is the question - Cook KNEW all that before she sent the e-mail, she knew what DM is like, she knew what the CofS would do.

So why did she send it? Or did she think that writing it would "get some TA"? And when it all came crashing down on her head and the CofS started telling her she had been led astray by SPs did she go "running home to Momma begging for forgiveness"?

[degraded being]

delete double post.

[degraded being]

Marty quoted in Mick Wenlock's post above.

"... Litigation is not a fun nor especially profitable activity on the whole, which is why cases overwhelmingly settle rather than get taken to court. That is the biggest ace in the hole that the church has: intimidation through the threat of extended litigation. It's an excellent reason to beat a tactical retreat and attorneys commonly advise minimizing risk and seeking a graceful way out....."

And such a relief for Marty!

[RogerB]

Ummmm, I think some folks have got the boot on the wrong foot, judging by comments above.

Reading the traffic on this, it says the CofS settled its case against Debbie . . . . not the other way around!

It wasn't Debbie who sought or initiated the "settlement" . . . she will have won on this whole parade . . . though the terms agreed unfortunately are again "in camera." For all we know, she might have even been paid big $$$ to go away and not reveal any more bad shit.

The history of this thing is that Debbie counter-sued . . . and it was there that the CofS had its balls in a wringer.

In actuality, Debbie has better things to do with her life than spend it in litigation with the Cof$, and the outcome that has been achieved in open court in actuality has been a win for her and us who want the Cof$ crimes exposed.

So I wouldn't gazette it as any sort of win by the cult or a triumph of its intimidation of former members.

R

[larfalot]

Me too. Absolutely. This is fucked up.

What is it gonna take to bring these muther fuckers down?

Sure is a bummer.......no matter what people like these observe within scientology they just cant resist MONEY. She was no hero to anyone in or out of scientology.

[Terril park]

Ummmm, I think some folks have got the boot on the wrong foot, judging by comments above.

Reading the traffic on this, it says the CofS settled its case against Debbie . . . . not the other way around!

It wasn't Debbie who sought or initiated the "settlement" . . . she will have won on this whole parade . . . though the terms agreed unfortunately are again "in camera." For all we know, she might have even been paid big $$$ to go away and not reveal any more bad shit.

The history of this thing is that Debbie counter-sued . . . and it was there that the CofS had its balls in a wringer.

In actuality, Debbie has better things to do with her life than spend it in litigation with the Cof$, and the outcome that has been achieved in open court in actuality has been a win for her and us who want the Cof$ crimes exposed.

So I wouldn't gazette it as any sort of win by the cult or a triumph of its intimidation of former members.

R

I agree

[larfalot]

Debbie Cook did deliver an EFFECTIVE BLOW to the Cult that is Scientology. Now, she has probably received more GAG MONEY to shut up and not reveal any more truth about Miss Cabbage and his cabbage patch called the HOLE and the fact that there is no one monitoring his EVIL PURPOSE! :angry:

Now, Debbie Cook needs to pay back all the Indies that donated to her attorney fees. Then she needs to MAKE UP THE DAMAGE she did whilst CAPTAIN at FRAUD LAND BASE.:yes:

I, personally, would like for her to meet Maria Pia Gardini and APOLOGIZE to Maria for the extortion and evil behavior Debbie Cook exhibited by forcing her to donate her entire inheritance. That was really, really EVIL!

Then pay her all of the money she extorted from this poor woman, who was so very dedicated to this VICIOUS, EVIL GROUP!
:yes:
COME ON DEBBIE COOK - Pay Maria Pia Gardini back!
MAKE UP THE DAMAGE!!!

yes.....that Debbie Cook had it both ways now.

[Lulu Belle]

I have no more proof than Marty does but, like him, I know how the CofS operates and it will have gone for getting the maximum information for its buck. There is no doubt about that.

There would be no chance that the cofs would miss out on getting names, and I am thinking that Cook will throw everyone who reached out to her under the bus.

Anyone who thinks this person has any courage, any willingness to protect others should probably re-join the cofs. You would be gullible enough for the SO.


Funny. When I said that about Minton's settlement - that the names of those who had contacted the LMT would be given to the church - I was CRUCIFIED for even suggesting such a thing.

[Mick Wenlock]

Funny. When I said that about Minton's settlement - that the names of those who had contacted the LMT would be given to the church - I was CRUCIFIED for even suggesting such a thing.

ah, but not by me....

I believe in the Lulu!!

[Mick Wenlock]

Ummmm, I think some folks have got the boot on the wrong foot, judging by comments above.

Reading the traffic on this, it says the CofS settled its case against Debbie . . . . not the other way around!

It wasn't Debbie who sought or initiated the "settlement" . . . she will have won on this whole parade . . . though the terms agreed unfortunately are again "in camera." For all we know, she might have even been paid big $$$ to go away and not reveal any more bad shit.


and your proof for that is... what?

from reading everything there does not seem to be any indication of who initiated what. Merely that the CofS settled it.

And - at least according to the Judge's statement that was quoted earlier - nobody has paid anything.

kind of blows a hole in the "win" theory.



The history of this thing is that Debbie counter-sued . . . and it was there that the CofS had its balls in a wringer.

In actuality, Debbie has better things to do with her life than spend it in litigation with the Cof$, and the outcome that has been achieved in open court in actuality has been a win for her and us who want the Cof$ crimes exposed.


Well most people have better things to do than to spend their time in litigation (except for lawyers) but the only "outcome" has been some testimony that was already in the public domain thanks to others and the tampa press.



So I wouldn't gazette it as any sort of win by the cult or a triumph of its intimidation of former members.

R

good to know, you have it comfortably filed

[Mick Wenlock]

I agree

wow color me surprised. not.

[TG1]

Uncharacteristic, perhaps, but I'm going to hold off on opining about the settlement yet. There may be more actual facts about it that will be revealed.

TG1

[Mimsey Borogrove]

After sleeping on it I think what happened is this - in the past DM has taken out any contenders to the throne. They have been declared, bought off, or tossed in the hole. He sees her as a valid threat, especially after the big reaction in the field to her email. His field not esmb's or M&M's. So he tried to slap a suit on her. When it backfired he told her on no uncertain terms he would spare no expense making her life a living hell. Perhaps he had some dirt on her he waved in her face. Who knows, but he got the point across. She does not have the deep pockets it takes to mount a sustained defense. Nor will the indi's back her unless she embraces their cause.

If any money changed hands it was maybe only enough to pay off her legal bills and a token for the damage to her business. But I doubt it.

Just part of his scorched earth policy concerning contenders.

Mimsey

[tikk]

Ummmm, I think some folks have got the boot on the wrong foot, judging by comments above.

Reading the traffic on this, it says the CofS settled its case against Debbie . . . . not the other way around!

It wasn't Debbie who sought or initiated the "settlement" . . . she will have won on this whole parade . . . though the terms agreed unfortunately are again "in camera." For all we know, she might have even been paid big $$$ to go away and not reveal any more bad shit.

The history of this thing is that Debbie counter-sued . . . and it was there that the CofS had its balls in a wringer.

In actuality, Debbie has better things to do with her life than spend it in litigation with the Cof$, and the outcome that has been achieved in open court in actuality has been a win for her and us who want the Cof$ crimes exposed.

So I wouldn't gazette it as any sort of win by the cult or a triumph of its intimidation of former members.

R

Cook/Baumgarten didn't have Scientology's "balls in a wringer" by merely filing a counterclaim. I explained why on the Voice site, so I'll quote myself here:


Cook/Baumgarten had a countersuit, but it was a countersuit merely seeking declaratory relief; that is, the only relief it sought was to have the court rule on the validity of the NDA. So if Scientology 'walked away,' the burden and cost would've been on Cook's attorney to essentially litigate the same case Scientology brought, and Cook still would've risked an adverse outcome--if the Court ruled in Scientology's favor, Cook would've owed whatever a referee determined the NDA said she owed. In other words, as leverage goes, it wasn't much to hang your hat on. The counterclaim was basically an option to play a game of chicken with Scientology, but that option would cost money and its outcome would be uncertain

And further to that, because the counterclaim didn't seek any damages, following the counterclaim through to the end, at great expense to the defense, would only return Cook/Baumgarten to their status quo.

Also, there's really no reason to think Scientology had to pay off Cook/Baumgarten other than to perhaps allow them to keep what they'd already been paid. The idea that Cook was sitting on so much more ammo to use against DM ignores the fact that Scientology was already aware of what Cook knew when they paid her off the first time. Why would that calculus change between the time she first signed and yesterday? Because she had a good day in court?

Realize that the validity of the NDAs had and still has not been ruled on, and neither party knew what a court would do when presented with the underlying legal question. Cook's good day in court has to be viewed in the context of what the court was there to determine at that time--the scope of the injunction Scientology sought against Cook. And the court didn't even rule on that--Scientology withdrew its injunction request after the first day of testimony. I think many people are conflating Cook's day of testimony with a "legal victory," but not a single legal issue pertaining to the validity of the agreement had been determined by any court, and despite that I think Cook had a good defense on a few fronts, I'd not have been shocked if the agreement were upheld. Scientology was not without good legal arguments to go on.

And it is this uncertainty as to the agreement's validity, more than anything, that most likely dictated the settlement terms. Scientology obviously didn't like where things were going, otherwise there was no reason for them to settle at this point in time (or at all even); if their fear was Cook's further testimony, then Scientology would want to settle on the eve of trial or deposition. But as I've stated, Scientology already knew what Cook could testify to before filing suit and seeking an injunction; the past hasn't changed. And there's also little reason to think Cook had a whole lot more up her sleeve because any testimony as to duress she'd likely have already brought at the injunction hearing; I mean, I don't see why her attorney would possibly advise she save the strongest stuff for last.

As for Cook/Baumgarten, even if they could reasonably conclude that they stood a 90% chance of success at trial, if the court nevertheless found against them and upheld the agreements, they'd have owed perhaps millions. So whatever the strength of their argument, any sliver of uncertainty has to be weighed with the downside of the worst case scenario, which was potentially very bad. That's not a lot of leverage to go asking for under the table money.

But in the end, Cook still won big. She (1) took Scientology's money; (2) disparaged, facially at least, the NDA with the Dec 31 e-mail; (3) testified in court as to matters which very likely would have violated the NDA had they not been privileged court testimony; (4) was returned to the immediate-post-NDA status quo without having suffered any of the repercussions as stated in the NDA, and (5) got to keep the money they'd originally been given.

But there's not a single plausible reason to speculate that they were given money beyond the settlement agreement.

[Man de la Mancha]

Wait, what? If it was all about ideals and taking down DM and not about money then why the hell would she take the settlement and stfu?

Who says she got any money? I realize noone wants to believe this, but Scn Inc may very well have won the case had it proceeded to its conclusion. Cook breached her contract - period. It is unlikely the court would be sympathetic to her claims of signing under duress (however real) when: 1) they had video showing a very different scenario, and 2) Cook perpetrated the same crap on others for 20 years. In my estimation it is just as likely Cook settled to avoid a $300,000 judgment, which I believe was the liquidated damages amount stated in the non-disclosure agreement.

[koki]

There are 2 mosquitoes flying around,and they saw a elephant... And one says to another "would you want ME to F..K this elephant in the ass ,so hard,that she will enjoy it...?"
Other one says "yeah" and "I will go there with you to see it myself..."
They come to elephants ass ,and one of mosquitoes take his d..k out and put in elephants ass... Once,twice,third time...
But then - tiger attack elephant and bite him on one of his front legs...
The elephant screams and start to cry ...
Mosquito ,that was doing in and out , is so happy that he starts to tell his friend :
"Look at her now!!! She is crying!! That elephant bitch!!!"

Debbie is - mosquito ... or Marty is ???

[Dulloldfart]

But in the end, Cook still won big. She (1) took Scientology's money; (2) disparaged, facially at least, the NDA with the Dec 31 e-mail; (3) testified in court as to matters which very likely would have violated the NDA had they not been privileged court testimony; (4) was returned to the immediate-post-NDA status quo without having suffered any of the repercussions as stated in the NDA, and (5) got to keep the money they'd originally been given.


Well, not too big.

"Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone,
be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

If taken literally, that means not saying one single thing about the CofS to anyone apart from each other.

Churchies will avoid them like the plague, since they are now publicly known as declared. And Debbie and Wayne must avoid Scios who are not churchies because they are very likely to have disparaged the CoS (publicly? privately?), or at least may be intending to disparage the CofS. How would you know?

So they basically have to cut other Scios out of their lives forever. Not a problem for a non-Scio, but for someone who still worships Hubbard?

Paul

[tikk]

Well, not too big.

"Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone,
be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

If taken literally, that means not saying one single thing about the CofS to anyone apart from each other.

Churchies will avoid them like the plague, since they are now publicly known as declared. And Debbie and Wayne must avoid Scios who are not churchies because they are very likely to have disparaged the CoS (publicly? privately?), or at least may be intending to disparage the CofS. How would you know?

So they basically have to cut other Scios out of their lives forever. Not a problem for a non-Scio, but for someone who still worships Hubbard?

Paul

Obviously it was something they thought they were able to live with once before, so I'm not sure why it's such a huge problem now, especially after Cook had her moment in the sun there for a time. So what if this new agreement effectively prevents her from becoming a Scientology critic? And who really knows how genuine their adherence to Scientology as a religion/doctrine/whatever is at this point in time. A lot has happened in the past few months for them, I'd not be surprised if they grew as disaffected with Marty and the Martyites as they did DM's brand. But who can say? If they could live with it once, I don't see why they can't live with it again.

[Ogsonofgroo]

Tikk, thank you for your knowledgable and level-headed take on all this, its always nice to hear from ya! :cheers: & :cake:

[A.K. Myers]

I am just sitting here this morning laughing my ass off.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/abuse-of-process-david-miscavige/

It is starting to dawn on Marty and crew that Debbie screwed
them. All their "donations" to her legal defense team are for
naught. Any PR bonus that M&M shared over "helping her" is
lost.

Debbie does Dallas (or any other small Texas town) was well
played.

:coolwink:

[Veda]

Well, not too big.

"Under a judge's order it requires Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, to refrain from disclosing anything they know about the church to anyone,
be it in conversation, an Internet posting or any other communication. Nor can they have any contact with anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the church."

If taken literally, that means not saying one single thing about the CofS to anyone apart from each other.

Churchies will avoid them like the plague, since they are now publicly known as declared. And Debbie and Wayne must avoid Scios who are not churchies because they are very likely to have disparaged the CoS (publicly? privately?), or at least may be intending to disparage the CofS. How would you know?

So they basically have to cut other Scios out of their lives forever. Not a problem for a non-Scio, but for someone who still worships Hubbard?

Paul

Doesn't she have a business? How does she determine which clients to still remain in contact with, and which to break off contact with? Is she still on face book?

Neither she nor her husband can have contact with $cientologists in good standing, and they, also, cannot have contact with "anyone who has disparaged or intends to disparage the Church."

[Ogsonofgroo]

I am just sitting here this morning laughing my ass off.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/abuse-of-process-david-miscavige/

It is starting to dawn on Marty and crew that Debbie screwed
them. All their "donations" to her legal defense team are for
naught. Any PR bonus that M&M shared over "helping her" is
lost.

Debbie does Dallas (or any other small Texas town) was well
played.

:coolwink:

I read Marteh's blabber (ya he would bet everything lol, sure) and continued on to the sychophantic ass-kissing which he thrives on. Such a kind and considerate, loving and caring bunch of bananas... only took a page before my brain rebelled.... yikes!

[Commander Birdsong]

There are 2 mosquitoes flying around,and they saw a elephant... And one says to another "would you want ME to F..K this elephant in the ass ,so hard,that she will enjoy it...?"
Other one says "yeah" and "I will go there with you to see it myself..."
They come to elephants ass ,and one of mosquitoes take his d..k out and put in elephants ass... Once,twice,third time...
But then - tiger attack elephant and bite him on one of his front legs...
The elephant screams and start to cry ...
Mosquito ,that was doing in and out , is so happy that he starts to tell his friend :
"Look at her now!!! She is crying!! That elephant bitch!!!"

Debbie is - mosquito ... or Marty is ???

that reminds me of how the old definition of conceit - a flea lying on his back on a leaf in a river floating down stream with a hard-on shouting "raise the drawbridge!" - is so descriptive of scientology

[Claire Swazey]

Not sure who you mean by "they", but if it's Cook and Baumgartner, they gave up the right to speak out in exchange for a shot at their eternal freedom. If "they" is CoS, it frustrates me to say that they gave up squat. They had the standard tech hold on Cook and played that card. If you are a true believer, you are screwed.

No, I mean the cult gave up something. Money or something. That's what happens with settlements.

[I told you I was trouble]

I feel that Debbie Cook was probably threatened with the dirt file that COB would undoubtedly have on her (and her husband) and that he has paid her off (despite what it said in the media).

She isn't getting any younger and her business must be devastated ... money would have been waved in her direction to ease her 'pain' ...

Her dirt file would be nasty, she was involved in some icky stuff in the cofs (any cofs exec would have been and that may include Lisa McPherson's death and the subsequent cover up).

Also she probably has finally grown up this last few years while out in the real world and admitted (to herself) that scientology is just a con job, so she had nothing to lose (and much to gain) by not being allowed near those in good standing.

It doesn't make sense that they just agreed to call it quits and no money changed hands.

The damage is done to the cofs though and can't be undone.

:coolwink:

[Man de la Mancha]

No, I mean the cult gave up something. Money or something. That's what happens with settlements.

My guess is that dismissal of the suit against Cook was Scn Inc's only concession, which is entirely valid consideration for a settlement agreement. If so, Cook got the short end of the stick because in addition to dropping her counterclaim it sounds like she essentially agreed to disassociate from just about everyone she has met during the past 20+ years. She agreed to that because she doesn't want to give Scn Inc 25% of every penny she earns for possibly the rest of her life.

[BunnySkull]

New post by Marty has the injunction up in full.

He's now calling calling the settlement "treachery" - pretty big 180 from his first post that tried to put a happy face on it.

[Freeminds]

The real loser here is Marty Rathbun.

But then... what's new?

[Mick Wenlock]

I feel that Debbie Cook was probably threatened with the dirt file that COB would undoubtedly have on her (and her husband) and that he has paid her off (despite what it said in the media).

She isn't getting any younger and her business must be devastated ... money would have been waved in her direction to ease her 'pain' ...

Her dirt file would be nasty, she was involved in some icky stuff in the cofs (any cofs exec would have been and that may include Lisa McPherson's death and the subsequent cover up).

Also she probably has finally grown up this last few years while out in the real world and admitted (to herself) that scientology is just a con job, so she had nothing to lose (and much to gain) by not being allowed near those in good standing.

It doesn't make sense that they just agreed to call it quits and no money changed hands.

The damage is done to the cofs though and can't be undone.

:coolwink:



Well I have no doubt that she was threatened with whatever they thought would cause her to move her position that they could legally get away with.

But the 'damage'? It will be like footprints in water. There was nothing she said that was not already known - perhaps the only damage that was real and lasting would be to the few people who were on lines who got real excited about it who will now, almost certainly be getting a "handling".

[uniquemand]

Which of you has had the courage of your convictions with regard to what should be done about the Church?

We're all compromised.

[Lulu Belle]

I do wonder how much her husband may have had to do with this. One thing I can reveal now, that I heard directly from a involved party, was that Wayne had openly expressed a desire to return to the SO - no shit. This was after the court testimony and everything.

Yeah. He's the invisible part of this that no one is looking at.

His whole family is in Scientology, right? And now, since they are both declared, he can't communicate with any of them.

I wonder if he ever agreed with her sending out that email to begin with. He may be looking at her as someone who ruined his life.

My personal prediction is that they will split up. It wouldn't surprise me if he tries to get back into Scn's good graces.

JMO.

[Jquepublic]

So the story according to Otega (hope I am paraphrasing accurately)....is that the COS could have walked away at anytime because they were sueing her. And if they had persisted Debbie may have been up for $300 000 or more. So it's good for Dangeous Debbie that COS dropped it and not too bad that she had to promise to shut up about antything bad about the cult, to anyone, forever!

That doesn't look right to me. They HAD TO!!!!! get her to STFU!!!! She had already put them right in the poo bin and was likely to bring out all sorts of other terrible things. It would be worth paying a LOT for stopping that. If they just walked away, where would that leave them? With a totally useless gag order, and that could start floodgates of others.

They did not walk away because they HAD to negotiate with her. I do not believe that she was not paid somehow. If it wasn't a payment, she must have been given something to keep her trap shut....and it has to be forever, remember.

If they didn't, they could NOT just walk away. Am I missing something....?

Maybe the thing she and Wayne got was the right to see their family. Can't really put a price on that. I don't think staying away from the Indies is any kind of problem for her because I got the distinct impression that she thinks of them as squirrel anyway.

I'm disappointed because she had a real shot at DM IMO and threw it away. I guess she decided her personal integrity was not as important as she thought. It's her right to walk away... Just wish she hadn't.

[Lulu Belle]

Maybe the thing she and Wayne got was the right to see their family.

I seriously doubt they got that. They are declared SPs. Scientologists "in good standing" would be forbidden to communicate with them.

That's one major reason why I think Wayne might not be happy with any of this.

[MostlyLurker]

The injunction has a funny definition of "non-public information" which is anything the church hasn't approved to be public.

The criminal activity of David Miscavige are therefore "non-public", the beatings, Debbies's letter content is "non public". Anything Debbie said in earlier deposition are "non public".

Does any one who donated to Debbie's cause, forwarded her letter to others, supported her in any way is bound by that same agreement as "acting in concert"?

What "acting in concert" legally mean?

And how an injunction can bound third people who are not the two parties in the dispute?

[Mick Wenlock]

I seriously doubt they got that. They are declared SPs. Scientologists "in good standing" would be forbidden to communicate with them.

That's one major reason why I think Wayne might not be happy with any of this.

true - but that assumes that miscavige et al actually believe that crap which of course, they don't.

An accommodation would be worked out.

[LA SCN]

Tikk, thank you for your knowledgable and level-headed take on all this, its always nice to hear from ya! :cheers: & :cake:

I'll drink to that! :yes:

[Mick Wenlock]

Which of you has had the courage of your convictions with regard to what should be done about the Church?

We're all compromised.

well I got declared for following mine - and I wrote the report that got me declared and I knew it would.

So please don't fucking talk about things you don't fucking know.

[LA SCN]

No, I mean the cult gave up something. Money or something. That's what happens with settlements.

They gave up pursuing Debbie for minimum $300,000 penalty for breaking the NDA.

[Jquepublic]

The injunction has a funny definition of "non-public information" which is anything the church hasn't approved to be public.

The criminal activity of David Miscavige are therefore "non-public", the beatings, Debbies's letter content is "non public". Anything Debbie said in earlier deposition are "non public".

Does any one who donated to Debbie's cause, forwarded her letter to others, supported her in any way is bound by that same agreement as "acting in concert"?

What "acting in concert" legally mean?

And how an injunction can bound third people who are not the two parties in the dispute?

I donated - not much, but some. And the church can piss off for all I care. I will continue to help expose their crimes no matter what anyone signs.

Kim Loss. Saving OSA some fucking time.

[Mick Wenlock]

New post by Marty has the injunction up in full.

He's now calling calling the settlement "treachery" - pretty big 180 from his first post that tried to put a happy face on it.


wow, I just read it.

she got pwned

[SpecialFrog]

Does any one who donated to Debbie's cause, forwarded her letter to others, supported her in any way is bound by that same agreement as "acting in concert"?

What "acting in concert" legally mean?

And how an injunction can bound third people who are not the two parties in the dispute?

This jumped out at me as well. As I recall, Clearwater Scientology has tried to claim people are "acting in concert" with the now-defunct Lisa McPherson Trust and therefore bound by the injunction they had against them.

And yes, the "non-public" information is kind of crazy, although I suppose it doesn't matter since they aren't allowed to talk to anyone about Scientology. :)

I was surprised by the prohibition against aiding people / groups who are known to "attack" Scientology. What does that legally mean?

[Gadfly]

well I got declared for following mine - and I wrote the report that got me declared and I knew it would.

So please don't fucking talk about things you don't fucking know.

:thumbsup:

The same with me. I wrote up the outpoints and alterations in no uncertain terms, and was found guilty of suppressive acts for it. I also knew that the Comm Ev would be a joke, and that everything would be twisted to "ensure the guilty outcome".

Some of us HAVE followed our own personal integrity, only to discover or confirm that it is not valued at all when one travels "outside the tight little box of organized Scientology". Once I realized how the Scientology game was played, I decided that I didn't want any part of it. :no:

[uniquemand]

well I got declared for following mine - and I wrote the report that got me declared and I knew it would.

So please don't fucking talk about things you don't fucking know.

:) I knew I would be declared, as well. I'm not saying anyone here hasn't done anything, I'm just saying none of us have brought them down, yet. It's easy to get on a high horse about what other people should do. My point is that Debbie may not have been able to bring the Church down, and might want to retain her own life. However, she struck a major blow.

I'll accept her back into the group of people trying to extinguish the existence of the cult, but somehow, I don't think she wants to be a part of that group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X9UZhr5Lwc

[Lulu Belle]

true - but that assumes that miscavige et al actually believe that crap which of course, they don't.

An accommodation would be worked out.

You could be right. But, as vindictive as he is, I would tend to think he would ensure they couldn't communicate with their families out of sheer spite.

God knows that's his usual MO.

[Claire Swazey]

well I got declared for following mine - and I wrote the report that got me declared and I knew it would.

So please don't fucking talk about things you don't fucking know.

EXACTLY. There are a number of people here who got declared for standing up to the cult about various things. There are a number of people who sent resignation letters to CofS.

It depends on the person, really, Uniquemand. Some did, some didn't. But this board is chock full of people who stood up for themselves and who stood up for others.

[uniquemand]

EXACTLY. There are a number of people here who got declared for standing up to the cult about various things. There are a number of people who sent resignation letters to CofS.

It depends on the person, really, Uniquemand. Some did, some didn't. But this board is chock full of people who stood up for themselves and who stood up for others.

This misses my point, but I completely agree with yours. :) Debbie has every right to settle and make it go away. I think she'll find that surveillance will still continue, though. Making a deal with the Devil... isn't usually honored by either party.

My point isn't that everyone here didn't do something, but that none of the rest really have any moral authority to tell me, or Mick, or you, or Debbie to do more, when they've done what they're willing to do.

[WildKat]

Marty and followers seem convinced that Debbie accepted a huge pay-off to shut up. I don't think that's clear at all.

As a True Believer, she only needed to be convinced that "it was the greatest good for Scientology" and that they settle, shake hands, and stop talking about it, get it out of the public arena.

True Kool-Aid drinkers cave pretty easily when their "eternity" is threatened, or LRH's image in the public is threatened. They will lie, steal or kill if they think it's "the greatest good".

Forget about truth and integrity.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Marty and followers seem convinced that Debbie accepted a huge pay-off to shut up. I don't think that's clear at all.

As a True Believer, she only needed to be convinced that "it was the greatest good for Scientology" and that they settle, shake hands, and stop talking about it, get it out of the public arena.

True Kool-Aid drinkers cave pretty easily when their "eternity" is threatened, or LRH's image in the public is threatened. They will lie, steal or kill if they think it's "the greatest good".

Forget about truth and integrity.

Now the battle begins for who can convince their followers that this PR disaster was a win for them.

I might have to call my broker to move my money into Kool-Aid futures for the short term, since demand is going to be high ... real high

[Claire Swazey]

If she took a payoff, she'd not be the first one.

[Jquepublic]

If she took a payoff, she'd not be the first one.

You are right. I don't know what I'm upset about when you get right down to it: the fact that Debbie settled or the fact that I believed in her in the first place. Either way, my mistake was hoping for a hero. I should know by now that the one thing you'll never find in Scientology is a hero.

[HelluvaHoax!]

I feel that Debbie Cook was probably threatened with the dirt file that COB would undoubtedly have on her (and her husband) and that he has paid her off (despite what it said in the media).

She isn't getting any younger and her business must be devastated ... money would have been waved in her direction to ease her 'pain' ...

Her dirt file would be nasty, she was involved in some icky stuff in the cofs (any cofs exec would have been and that may include Lisa McPherson's death and the subsequent cover up).

--snipped--



That is my take on it as well. Threat of having her "crimes" made public--the ones she painstakingly scribbled in those darkest moments of abject contrition while in the hole and threatened with "losing her eternity". That's where Scientologists dig deep, deep, deep to find or "manufacture" crimes in order to shatter themselves. That's right, Scientologists, ultimately, are indoctrinated to Fair Game themselves!

It was probably a fairly well-thought out conclusion that Debbie made, with the help of her attorney, to limit the damage of prolonged litigation (financially and the toll it would take on her health and ability to make a living) that got her to decide to "settle" and resume the status quo that existed before Scientology sued her.

After all, that is exactly what she wanted in her correspondence with the CoS after she released that infamous New Year's Eve letter. She threatened to blow the whistle on COB and CoS crimes if they didn't leave her alone.

Now, there is another kind of surreal aspect to all this seriously-stupid-scientology-scenario...

In a quizzically ironic way, if Debbie is effectively prohibited from being in contact with both Scientologists-in-good-standing and Independent-Scientologists-in-bad-standing, she has in fact inadvertently MADE IT GO RIGHT. How so? Because, through the multiple-miscaluations of Hubbard-inspired "tech" being "standardly applied" the results were what they always are--a jaw-dropping crescendo of successive footbullets.

And without intending it at all, Debbie would have disconnected from that which she most dearly loves and devoted her life to--L. Ron Hubbard and the Bridge to Total Freedom. She didn't mean to commit culticide any more than she and her fellow sea org members meant to kill Lisa McPherson, but it happened anyways. These scientologists are fully lacking in common sense, but they are, nonetheless, a very industrious in wrecking things around them, including their own lives.

By applying Ron's tech to COB/COS and having COB/COS apply the tech to her (in this litigation) Debbie killed her connection to Scientology and the Road to Total Freedom. Again, I have to commend her for making it go right, even though she was intending to achieve the opposite of what happened.

Sick, dying, disconnected and broke. Isn't that the opposite of what "OTs" are going for? And, isn't that the consistent, standard "End Phenomena" for all good Scientologists?

End of rant. :hattip:

[The_Fixer]

Yeah. He's the invisible part of this that no one is looking at.

His whole family is in Scientology, right? And now, since they are both declared, he can't communicate with any of them.

I wonder if he ever agreed with her sending out that email to begin with. He may be looking at her as someone who ruined his life.

My personal prediction is that they will split up. It wouldn't surprise me if he tries to get back into Scn's good graces.

JMO.

Yeah Lulu, I was thinking about that too.

[Claire Swazey]

Well, she was still a koolaid drinker. I don't just mean that she still liked Scn ideology- but that she thought the CHURCH was AOK except for some stuff DM did. That means that the stuff she put people through in the past was, evidently, ok, in her view.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I feel that Debbie Cook was probably threatened with the dirt file that COB would undoubtedly have on her (and her husband) and that he has paid her off (despite what it said in the media).

She isn't getting any younger and her business must be devastated ... money would have been waved in her direction to ease her 'pain' ...

Her dirt file would be nasty, she was involved in some icky stuff in the cofs (any cofs exec would have been and that may include Lisa McPherson's death and the subsequent cover up).

Also she probably has finally grown up this last few years while out in the real world and admitted (to herself) that scientology is just a con job, so she had nothing to lose (and much to gain) by not being allowed near those in good standing.

It doesn't make sense that they just agreed to call it quits and no money changed hands.

The damage is done to the cofs though and can't be undone.

:coolwink:



It probably went a little like this

Remember how we used to have you cull through PC folders to get sensitive information that could be used to shake down the suckers for more money

... well your replacement has been going through your PC folders, not to gain information which would help shake you down for money, but to let your know what we will make public if you don't STFU.

You think your life sucks now? I'm getting the morons to donate a few million dollars for some bullshit saving the planet non-sense that is going to be specifically used to make your life a living hell.

You remember how that works, don't you?

Well what's it going to be, are you going to take the cash and STFU, or are you going to be on the other end of what you used to help us do so well?

[frhidden]

I did not know that one can contract away one's Constitutional Rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, ....

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I did not know that one can contract away one's Constitutional Rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, ....

The Constitutional Rights of an individual and the rights of an employee relative to the company they are employed by are two entirely different set of circumstances.

A company has a right to protect it's intellectual property and trade secrets, and the cult uses and abuses this tactic to protect it's con game

Which brings up an entirely different set of circumstances

if these Sea Orgers are indeed employees and fall under the above mentioned set of circumstances then they are not volunteers as the cult claims they are,

Which means they are subject to the same wage and benefit laws as all normal employees are.

[Man de la Mancha]

Does any one who donated to Debbie's cause, forwarded her letter to others, supported her in any way is bound by that same agreement as "acting in concert"?

What "acting in concert" legally mean?

And how an injunction can bound third people who are not the two parties in the dispute?

"Acting in Concert" is a principle that makes someone liable for harm caused by another person. Example: Two cars are drag racing. One of the cars hits grandma and grandma dies. In a subsequent lawsuit, both drivers could be sued because they were acting in concert to create the result of grandma's death.

Donating money won't make you liable for anything (unless knowingly donated for wrongful purpose).

Forwarding the letter won't make you liable as third party because you didn't sign a non-disclosure agreement. Theoretically, it could make you liable for defamation if it contained any disparaging false statements, but Scn Inc will never sue for defamation because it would put their character in issue and open the floodgates of discovery.

[elwood]

I'm disappointed, but not surprised. It's virtually impossible in any legal system to prevail against any entity with financial resources on the scale of CoS. The settlement Debbie and Wayne got was probably the best they could hope for.

[Smurf]

Marty and followers seem convinced that Debbie accepted a huge pay-off to shut up. I don't think that's clear at all.

Tony O. from the Village Voice said that if the legal case was tried in Florida, Debbie would have been on the hook for several hundred thousand dollars as it would have been a no-win situation in the Florida court.

I agree with Tony. Debbie was probably offered a new NDA to sign, and a small sum of settlement money, in return for the cult dropping the lawsuit against her.

Debbie reported that most of her & Wayne's clients at Cook Profitability Services were fellow Scilons, who quit her, after the cult denounced her.

I seriously doubt they paid her major bucks. They didn't need to.

[Mick Wenlock]

I did not know that one can contract away one's Constitutional Rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, ....

well as the constitution is a document that restricts and restrains the GOVERNMENT it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

The constitution does not restrict a company from forbidding you to speak about it when you sign a contract, same for an individual. The essential point is the word "contract"

Its not a freedom of speech its a freedom of will and action.

[Man de la Mancha]

"Acting in Concert" is a principle that makes someone liable for harm caused by another person. Example: Two cars are drag racing. One of the cars hits grandma and grandma dies. In a subsequent lawsuit, both drivers could be sued because they were acting in concert to create the result of grandma's death.

Donating money won't make you liable for anything (unless knowingly donated for wrongful purpose).

Forwarding the letter won't make you liable as third party because you didn't sign a non-disclosure agreement. Theoretically, it could make you liable for defamation if it contained any disparaging false statements, but Scn Inc will never sue for defamation because it would put their character in issue and open the floodgates of discovery.

One more thing Mostly.... you won't be subject to the injunction unless you are named as such or fall into some specifically defined category. I haven't read the injunction, but it may prohibit Cook from using 3rd parties to communicate her inside knowledge of Scn Inc (or maybe from "acting in concert" with 3rd parties to do so). If Cook were to do so anyway, she would be liable for the acts of the 3rd party, but it is unlikely the court would hold the 3rd Party liable because, presuming all the info forwarded was correct, they have no legal duty to refrain from doing so. And as stated previously, even if the information were false, Scn Inc wants nothing to do with a defamation suit.

[BunnySkull]

Yeah. He's the invisible part of this that no one is looking at.

His whole family is in Scientology, right? And now, since they are both declared, he can't communicate with any of them.

I wonder if he ever agreed with her sending out that email to begin with. He may be looking at her as someone who ruined his life.

My personal prediction is that they will split up. It wouldn't surprise me if he tries to get back into Scn's good graces.

JMO.

A huge part, and sad to say I also think they will probably be divorced within a year or so.

I think given their relative ranks and positions in the SO Debbie was always the power, the driving/decision maker in the relationship. I would think things got very mixed up once they were both out in the real world together trying to make it. But how much would she have consulted or taken into account's Wayne's thoughts on sending out the letter, and this fight with the cult? I dunno. I thought it was strange when it was mentioned that Wayne had never heard some of the stories of abuse at INT Debbie told on the stand during her public testimony. WTF? Doesn't sound like you have the best communication going there.

It's wishful thinking that maybe Wayne could see his family as part of the settlement, and hey maybe they even through them a bone and said we have no problem with you having a relationship with your family - but it doesn't matter. They cult would make sure every family member knew to give them the cold shoulder and to make the right "personal" decision to disconnect or maintain fair roads and good weather BS. If they were allowed to talk to one or two family members, it would only be so tabs could be kept on them.

As for Debbie, I'm not familiar with her family's situation. I know her brother was an active CoS member, but he also joined up with her. So she's at least got some family supporting her, sadly it seems like Wayne might be totally disconnected from all family.

The injunction doesn't say boo about any involvement they may or may not have with the official cult - and I really hope they weren't stupid enough to believe they would be allowed back into the fold and on the bridge if they signed on the dotted line. I know they are brainwashed and deluded, but I hope they aren't that stupid.

I don't think this will turn out to be a happy ending for either Debbie or Wayne, no matter how much money they may or may not have gotten.

[TG1]

This thread is starting to sound like an episode of 'Jersey Shore'?

But please don't stop -- it's very entertaining.

:hysterical:

[Smurf]

What is interesting about the settlement is how the cult will use the "Agreed Final Judgement" against Mike Rinder & Marty Rathbun.

The terms specify.. "Debbie Cool & Wayne Baumgarten, and any of their agents, servants, employees, and those persons acting in concert with them who receive actual notice of the Agreed Final Judgement by personal service are permanently enjoined..."

http://markrathbun.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/injunction.pdf

If the cult serves a copy of the Judgement on Rinder & Rathbun, they could be held legally bound by the judgement, unless they went to court and received a Declaratory Judgement separating themselves from Debbie & Wayne's legal obligations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratory_relief

I was stopped by a Sheriff's deputy several years ago, and threatened with arrest, if I protested at Int Base, due to a loose (mis)interpretation of a Permanent Injunction filed against critic Keith Henson which, forever, enjoins him from protesting at Int. Base.

In Henson's injunction, it also bans his "agents, servants, employees, and those persons acting in concert with.." The Riverside County Sheriffs Department, acting on a DA pack on me, provided by Rick Moxon & Elliot Abelson, concluded I was an agent of Henson's because I was photographed at the same rally in 1998 where Henson protested Scientology. (I was actually working for OSA at the time keeping tabs on the critics).

After my attorney had a chat with the Sheriff, and threatened legal action, the Sheriff's department backed off. But, it took alot of effort to expose the cult's deliberate abuse of legal process.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the cult will try to tie Mike & Marty's hands, according to the terms of this Final Judgement.

[TG1]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the cult will try to tie Mike & Marty's hands, according to the terms of this Final Judgement.

:drama:

[Mark A. Baker]

You are right. I don't know what I'm upset about when you get right down to it: the fact that Debbie settled or the fact that I believed in her in the first place. Either way, my mistake was hoping for a hero. I should know by now that the one thing you'll never find in Scientology is a hero.

:no:

I disagree emphatically. David Mayo is a hero. John McMaster was a hero. Nor are they by any count the only ones.


Mark A. Baker

[WildKat]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the cult will try to tie Mike & Marty's hands, according to the terms of this Final Judgement.

This is huge. Probably why Marty is shitting bricks right now.

[Lulu Belle]

A huge part, and sad to say I also think they will probably be divorced within a year or so.

I think given their relative ranks and positions in the SO Debbie was always the power, the driving/decision maker in the relationship. I would think things got very mixed up once they were both out in the real world together trying to make it. But how much would she have consulted or taken into account's Wayne's thoughts on sending out the letter, and this fight with the cult? I dunno. I thought it was strange when it was mentioned that Wayne had never heard some of the stories of abuse at INT Debbie told on the stand during her public testimony. WTF? Doesn't sound like you have the best communication going there.

Yup. And, too, it was Debbie that went uplines. Presumably, Wayne stayed at Flag the whole time. His reality is at the service org level. And, as bad as that is these days, it still isn't quite as much in the belly of the beast as Int is. Especially the viewpoint Debbie got, with how closely she was working with DM.

And you're right about the real world thing. I think that happens with a lot of couples who marry in the Sea Org and leave the Sea Org together, actually. One thing about the SO: it tends to level the playing field to a certain degree. You could come in as rich or poor or black or white. You get put in a uniform and everyone looks and dresses the same and the rules and the game changes.

And out of it come some very...odd couples. People who in a million years would never hook up "outside" wind up getting married.

Then they leave together, and their actual differences really start to show. Who is actually better at living in the world. Who is better at making money. Differences in social statuses. Differences in families. Things that didn't count when you were working 18 hour days 7 days a week in your little bubble and almost never saw each other ... they start to count a lot.


It's wishful thinking that maybe Wayne could see his family as part of the settlement, and hey maybe they even through them a bone and said we have no problem with you having a relationship with your family - but it doesn't matter. They cult would make sure every family member knew to give them the cold shoulder and to make the right "personal" decision to disconnect or maintain fair roads and good weather BS. If they were allowed to talk to one or two family members, it would only be so tabs could be kept on them.

I agree. I don't believe for a minute they are going to be allowed to connect, or reconnect, with their families.


As for Debbie, I'm not familiar with her family's situation. I know her brother was an active CoS member, but he also joined up with her. So she's at least got some family supporting her, sadly it seems like Wayne might be totally disconnected from all family.

The injunction doesn't say boo about any involvement they may or may not have with the official cult - and I really hope they weren't stupid enough to believe they would be allowed back into the fold and on the bridge if they signed on the dotted line. I know they are brainwashed and deluded, but I hope they aren't that stupid.

I don't think this will turn out to be a happy ending for either Debbie or Wayne, no matter how much money they may or may not have gotten.

Totally agree with this post.

[degraded being]

I feel that Debbie Cook was probably threatened with the dirt file that COB would undoubtedly have on her (and her husband) and that he has paid her off (despite what it said in the media).

She isn't getting any younger and her business must be devastated ... money would have been waved in her direction to ease her 'pain' ...

Her dirt file would be nasty, she was involved in some icky stuff in the cofs (any cofs exec would have been and that may include Lisa McPherson's death and the subsequent cover up).

Also she probably has finally grown up this last few years while out in the real world and admitted (to herself) that scientology is just a con job, so she had nothing to lose (and much to gain) by not being allowed near those in good standing.

It doesn't make sense that they just agreed to call it quits and no money changed hands.

The damage is done to the cofs though and can't be undone.

:coolwink:



Bingo. The dirt on her.

[Jquepublic]

:no:

I disagree emphatically. David Mayo is a hero. John McMaster was a hero. Nor are they by any count the only ones.


Mark A. Baker

I didn't say there are no heroes in the critics camp, Mark. I said there are no heroes in Scientology. Every time I think otherwise I wind up regretting it. But disagree to your heart's content.

[degraded being]

Mr Baumgarten to Debbie: "Excuse me dear, could you pass the.."
Mrs Baumgarten.. " Stop right there! You're not suppoded to talk to me about that!"


Mrs Baumgarten to random neighbour: "Good morning Mrs..."
OSA spai from behind the bush: "Stop it right there! You're not suppose to talk to her about that".

She should just get her mouth stitched shut and leave a little hole to put liquid and a little bit of food in.

[Mark A. Baker]

I didn't say there are no heroes in the critics camp, Mark. I said there are no heroes in Scientology. ...

The individuals cited were heroes before they left off involvement with the church. I see no reason to conclude that there are none among current members in 'good standing'. The fact that the church leadership actively persecutes those who won't go along with their unethical dictates makes their heroism stand out, as with Mayo & McMaster and many of the other founders of independence.

It's largely an easy ride for most who have chosen to be critical of the church from an exterior position. Those who the church have targeted for long term harassment are often precisely those who showed heroic leadership while still members of the church.

The real litmus test of heroism are those individuals who actively support and promote the open discussion of the whole truth, and not some bowdlerized version deemed publicly 'acceptable' and largely consistent with established shore stories.

Neither Cook, Rathbun, or Rinder have shown any evidence of making that grade as of yet.


Mark A. Baker

[TG1]

OK, Mark. Pistols at dawn. Bring a second.

But don't be disappointed if no one else shows up.

TG1

[Lone Star]

I think one can say with certainty that DM and the CoS will never be effectively brought down in or by the legal system. They just play the legal game too effectively, even if by blackmailing officials, which I suspect occurred with the Eastgate case.

The cult will only die by a death of a thousand cuts. Hemorrhaging with the continued loss of members and the failure to replace the loss with newer raw meat. Debbie Cook did contribute to this with her infamous email and Feb. testimony in the San Antonio court room. Whether she intended to or not, she more or less sacrificed herself to give the cult a black eye because her situation now is no better than it was in Dec. In fact it may even be worse with the new and very binding NDA.

I'm not feeling sorry for her though. She made the bed that she's lying in.

[Claire Swazey]

I did not know that one can contract away one's Constitutional Rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, ....

Churches are notorious for that. Yes, "Churches". CofS is a cult but all throughout history, people have had such rights as were given to them by their constitutions taken away from them by churches. So, yes, one can do that. I know you said "contract" and you're probably making a point about entering into a contract that is clearly contra to the laws of the land. But, even continuing my historical analogy, it's been happening throughout history with that, too.

Sucks, though. It's not right. I mean, I do understand that recognizing historical precedent does not confer substantiation and that it should not imply approval on my part. It does not.

[Sindy]

This misses my point, but I completely agree with yours. :) Debbie has every right to settle and make it go away. I think she'll find that surveillance will still continue, though. Making a deal with the Devil... isn't usually honored by either party.

My point isn't that everyone here didn't do something, but that none of the rest really have any moral authority to tell me, or Mick, or you, or Debbie to do more, when they've done what they're willing to do.

No, they don't because it's a (relatively) free country. That doesn't mean that people can't have very strong opinions about the matter and, of course, anyone has the right to comment about anything they wish. I trust no one went over to Debbie and Wayne's house today and demanded they do more. I know I didn't. :)

[Mark A. Baker]

OK, Mark. Pistols at dawn. Bring a second.

But don't be disappointed if no one else shows up.

TG1

I'm not a gun nut. I prefer rapiers.

:fencing:


Mark A. Baker

[dianaclass8]

Sure is a bummer.......no matter what people like these observe within scientology they just cant resist MONEY. She was no hero to anyone in or out of scientology.


Yes, I agree with you that she was no hero, but it is not a surprise, too many things to really rise above and become a hero.

I posted all about it here on my blog.

http://aidathomas.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/debbie-cook-makes-a-deal-with-david-miscavige/#comment-1347

[smartone]

Well that's it! Goodnight everyone! Thanks for playing Scieno Court Watch! :clap: The game that always ends with a let down. :duh:

Next up...what will Lisa Marie do? ( Hint: Probably nothing)

Yes, what will Lisa Marie do? She has loads of dosh and so I reckon she won't need to go for the hush money.

[Man de la Mancha]

The terms specify.. "Debbie Cool & Wayne Baumgarten, and any of their agents, servants, employees, and those persons acting in concert with them who receive actual notice of the Agreed Final Judgement by personal service are permanently enjoined..."

Since she won't be communicating with them in the future, I doubt there will be any "acting in concert". Besides, they can both verify most of what Cook said based on their own actual first hand knowledge, independent of any concerted effort with Cook. They didn't sign non-disclosure agreements and they can say whatever they want as long as it is true and they are not doing it at as a part of some plan involving Cook or her agents.




I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the cult will try to tie Mike & Marty's hands, according to the terms of this Final Judgement.The terms of the injunction only tie their hands under very limited circumstances. They simply don't need to act in concert with Cook to say what they know. No acting in concert = no liability under the terms of the injunction.

[Smurf]

Since she won't be communicating with them in the future, I doubt there will be any "acting in concert". Besides, they can both verify most of what Cook said based on their own actual first hand knowledge, independent of any concerted effort with Cook. They didn't sign non-disclosure agreements and they can say whatever they want as long as it is true and they are not doing it at as a part of some plan involving Cook or her agents.

You miss the point, entirely. I said the cult may abuse legal process, as they have done many times in the past, to infer that Mike & Marty is "enjoined" in the Final Judgement.

Several Independent Scientologists, including Karen de la Carriere, are listed as Facebook friends of Wayne Baumgarten. It would not be a stretch for the cult to make the case that these friends are "associates" of Wayne. It's bullshit, but the cult is infamous for making bullshit claims.

It is known that Mike & Marty collected donations on behalf of Debbie. The cult could infer, and make a legal case for it, that they are agents of Debbie.

It would all come down to what the cult would infer in legal motions, and how the court would address it.

[Lulu Belle]

I just looked at Wayne's FB page.

Seems he has two sons who live in LA (they were visiting him a couple of years ago). I assume they are in good standing Scientologists. (Don't know if Debbie is the mom; I'm kind of assuming not.) Lots of Baumgarten family photos; looks like brothers and sisters.

He lists the "Church of Scientology" as his religion. I'm not sure what to make of that. Does that mean he still considers himself to actually be part of the Church?

I just really, really get the feeling...that none of this was his idea. And that he personally has a lot to lose by being disconnected from the Mothership.

And if he really didn't know what went on at Int, and they talked so little about their realities and experience on staff, is it possible Debbie went ahead and sent that email without telling him first? Sounds crazy, but stranger things have happened. I really get that she had no idea, for whatever reason, the effect it was going to create.

It may very well be that they settled because he just did not want to do this. Period.

[Man de la Mancha]

You miss the point, entirely. I said the cult may abuse legal process, as they have done many times in the past, to infer that Mike & Marty is "enjoined" in the Final Judgement.

Several Independent Scientologists, including Karen de la Carriere, are listed as Facebook friends of Wayne Baumgarten. It would not be a stretch for the cult to make the case that these friends are "associates" of Wayne. It's bullshit, but the cult is infamous for making bullshit claims.

It is known that Mike & Marty collected donations on behalf of Debbie. The cult could infer, and make a legal case for it, that they are agents of Debbie.


It would all come down to what the cult would infer in legal motions, and how the court would address it.

Sorry if I misunderstood your primary point. As you know, it's church policy to use the system as a weapon, so I'm sure they're researching every possible angle of attack. However, they would be wise to refrain from any hasty attacks on Rinder/Rathbun without solid evidence of a Cook/M&M conspiracy as to the words uttered in violation of the injunction. Some previous association is highly inconclusive on that point, but I could see them using it as a way of bringing it into court under the guise of good faith and maintaining plausible deniability of some ulterior motive. I believe that would likely result in a very embarrassing loss and a subsequent abuse of process claim courtesy of their intended targets.

[Jquepublic]

Yes, what will Lisa Marie do? She has loads of dosh and so I reckon she won't need to go for the hush money.

Best case scenario is she states publicly that she left. She's a celeb, was handled delicately for that reason, so I feel confident she never slept on the floor of ant infested buildings or ate slop while enduring group "confessions".

In other words, I don't expect her to do anything at all. But I'd be happy to be wrong.

[Mick Wenlock]

I just looked at Wayne's FB page.

Seems he has two sons who live in LA (they were visiting him a couple of years ago). I assume they are in good standing Scientologists. (Don't know if Debbie is the mom; I'm kind of assuming not.) Lots of Baumgarten family photos; looks like brothers and sisters.

He lists the "Church of Scientology" as his religion. I'm not sure what to make of that. Does that mean he still considers himself to actually be part of the Church?

I just really, really get the feeling...that none of this was his idea. And that he personally has a lot to lose by being disconnected from the Mothership.

And if he really didn't know what went on at Int, and they talked so little about their realities and experience on staff, is it possible Debbie went ahead and sent that email without telling him first? Sounds crazy, but stranger things have happened. I really get that she had no idea, for whatever reason, the effect it was going to create.

It may very well be that they settled because he just did not want to do this. Period.

a very insightful post Lulu.

I think that Debbie really thought she was writing a "KR" and that it might make her unpopular but she was doing it for the good of the team.

You may well be right - she might have ended up far deeper in the shit than she ever thought possible.

[paradox]

Abuse of Process is a civil violation of law. An Abuse of Process is accomplished when the court’s processes are used for an improper purpose – a purpose other than that which a party purports to use that process for.

In my professional opinion David Miscavige has used the Bexar County District Court for purposes that are improper and fraudlent. That is assuming that the Tampa Bay Times has reported straight facts this evening.

<snip>

Since David Miscavige has instructed his lawyers to fraudulently use the court’s processes to lie in order to cover up his serial criminal acts committed against a woman, I will weigh in with my professional opinion.

<snip>

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/abuse-of-process-david-miscavige/



:giggle: and :lol:

What profession might that be? :hysterical:

[Ogsonofgroo]

a very insightful post Lulu.

I think that Debbie really thought she was writing a "KR" and that it might make her unpopular but she was doing it for the good of the team.

You may well be right - she might have ended up far deeper in the shit than she ever thought possible.

Sortta my take too Mick & LuLu. Must be challenging for her brain-pan realising that the bus she's tossed so many under has a set of wheels just for her...
:nervous:

:yes:

[Smurf]

I just looked at Wayne's FB page.

Seems he has two sons who live in LA (they were visiting him a couple of years ago). I assume they are in good standing Scientologists. (Don't know if Debbie is the mom; I'm kind of assuming not.) Lots of Baumgarten family photos; looks like brothers and sisters.

Wayne's sons, David & Jonathan are twins. Jonathan is a commercial photographer in Texas, and up to the time Debbie was sued by the church. David was in the Sea Org and a PAC guard in Los Angeles. He has not been seen in months and has alot of people concerned for his welfare.

I have been to LRH Way several times & confronted Sec Chf Jason True (who became Sec Chf after after Ryan Boswell was RPF'd for beating his wife) and Jason refuses to address David's whereabouts.

The women you see with Wayne's sons in his FB album are there girlfriends. Debbie is their step-mother.

Wayne's first wife was Barbara Magnolfi, an apparently well-known actress in Italian films. She is the mother of David & Jonathan.

Initially, the Scio Completion Lists reflected their mother's maiden name, then it was changed to their father's last name.

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/d/david-magnolfi-baumgarten.html

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/j/jonathan-magnolfi.html

Changed: http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/d/david-baumgarten.html

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/j/jonathan-baumgarten.html

Mother: https://www.facebook.com/BarbaraMagnolfi

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/b/barbara-magnolfi.html

[Infinite]

:giggle: and :lol:

What profession might that be? :hysterical:

Oh, I dunno. When there's a plot hatched in Hell, no witness is an angel. Perhaps when it comes to the abuse of silly old wog judicial process to advance Scientology, Marty has had years of practical experience; wouldn't surprise me at at all.

[I told you I was trouble]

Well I have no doubt that she was threatened with whatever they thought would cause her to move her position that they could legally get away with.

But the 'damage'? It will be like footprints in water. There was nothing she said that was not already known - perhaps the only damage that was real and lasting would be to the few people who were on lines who got real excited about it who will now, almost certainly be getting a "handling".



I meant the damage to the field worldwide ... it has to have some impact when a past top exec that was 'in good standing' dishes the dirt so publicly on the COB, especially when the things she said verified the things many previous dissenters (Indies etc) have said.

:coolwink:

[Lulu Belle]

Wayne's sons, David & Jonathan are twins. Jonathan is a commercial photographer in Texas, and up to the time Debbie was sued by the church. David was in the Sea Org and a PAC guard in Los Angeles. He has not been seen in months and has a lot of people concerned for his welfare.

Wow. I don't know if anyone has to look any farther than this for a reason that they settled. Holding your kid hostage is quite powerful as far as getting someone to do what you want them to do.

Unfortunately, if you look at DM's history in this department, that kid is probably in some foreign country now, or hidden at Int. He himself might be in The Hole.

This could very well be what Wayne is afraid of.

And with good reason.

[Gottabrain]

So when will we be hearing from Rathbun that she took her "... payoff and slid off into the sunset" as he has stated of others who reached a court settlement?

Or are such deliberately insulting remarks reserved only for those whom Rathbun knows himself to have been criminally abused by LRH & the church and who were unwilling to pretend otherwise? :eyeroll:

As an interesting side note, it's an interesting feature of Rathbun's blog on the item that he has sought to soften the impact on his audience of any potential discrediting remarks subsequently emerging about either himself or Rinder.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/

Nothing surprising in any of this. Just the same old dance. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker

Sometimes your bluntness is incredibly refreshing, Mark.

http://jillsbooks.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/children-playing-in-fire-hydrant-spray-at-corbis-images.jpg

[Gottabrain]

]
Debbie's deal was worth however much she had the guts to hold out from - so it could be anything from $50K to $5 million

I would guess it would closer to the lower figure than the higher. It all depends on the leverage the cofs could have had. And I am guessing they had a lot.

Scientologists are cowards, thats what Hubbard's crap creates.

She was worn out, Mick, it took a lot out of her fighting those punks. I didn't expect any differently, but I am still disappointed - the longer she held out, the more people left.

Debbie and I had a Facebook conversation just a couple of weeks ago (some of my personal details deleted):

February 11

Hi Debbie,
Congratulations on your bravery and honesty in court, and for winning. No small thing.
Just wanted to write to invite you to Australia if you want a break and some time to recover. You are welcome here any time - we will look after you so you have rest, peace, freedom and can recover from this trauma. SO sorry this happened to you and others. Love you, -------


February 16
Debbie Jean Cook

Thank you, ---------.

Fortunately, we are not presently being harassed and are enjoying surprising peace. I'm sorry it has had to happen to anyone. We will put an end to it.

ml, Debbie

..

March 29
--------------


Hi Debbie,
It's great to hear back from you. I'm glad to hear things are peaceful for you.

It will take all of us to put an end to this - Anons, exes, Independent Scientologists, Freezoners, general public who were never in Scn but simply have integrity, and the numerous Scientologists who are still "in" (I have good reason to believe the majority of veteran public are against COS mgmt, Debbie). We also need our families, our friends, our acquaintances, our allies, our media, legal and government contacts... everyone.

Don't make the mistake of believing that it is your personal mission to unite us all. It will probably never happen. We hit the abuses from different angles. We disagree on many things.

Don't make the mistake of believing Marty Rathbun's statements of his personal power or influence, either. He isn't behind all of this and never was, though his website has been instrumental in helping some get out. Others whose names you may never even know have done amazing things and the big push against the abuses began with people who had never been in Scn - concerned activists that saw the abuses of staff in Scn. Don't look up to Marty as a guru or for advice. Use your own judgement. Think for yourself. Contact whomever you feel you can trust in whatever way you feel is most beneficial, but do NOT do anything based on believing someone else knows better than you, is more experienced, etc. Don't let others decide for you who your friends or enemies are. And don't let anyone tie you into loyalties or obligations in such a way that you don't feel you can pull out of them.

I know you know all of this, but I want to remind you how vitally important it is that you use your own judgement and don't look up to any person other than yourself as the authority on what actions you take. Don't believe all you hear or read. That includes Marty's blog. You have far, far more friends in diverse places than he would ever have you believe - and far less enemies, too - even if we don't all agree on everything.

I wish all the love and luck to you in every way, Debbie. X X X X X O O O O O

=========

April 8
Debbie Jean Cook

Hi ====,
Thanks for some VERY good advice that I agree with wholeheartedly!
I will.
XOXO
Debbie

[degraded being]

She was worn out, Mick, it took a lot out of her fighting those punks. I didn't expect any differently, but I am still disappointed - the longer she held out, the more people left.

Yeah she was already worn down right at the beginning and no doubt before the beginning of the legal skirmish, going by her own accounts of her physical problems.
It could have even impaired her assessment of what trouble she would get into by starting it in the first place.

[Gottabrain]

Yeah she was already worn down right at the beginning and no doubt before the beginning of the legal skirmish, going by her own accounts of her physical problems.
It could have even impaired her assessment of what trouble she would get into by starting it in the first place.

In her FB comment to me she intended to end the abuses. She said "we will put an end to it."

Crikey, I know quite a few good people who aged years trying to shoulder that burden. Sometimes enough is enough, and she knows when she hit that point. She did good though. Real good. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Feral]

Debbie Cook was the the CO of Flag, "The friendliest place in the world", for the duration of my wife and my 15 years there on OTVII.

Once you are on OTVII and you have fatally accepted that you are on one of the last big stages of your journey to Total freedom (tm), well you might as well be tied to a tree, you're now in deliverance country. The way out is so tortured and degraded that you dare not consider it. You were now Flag's bitch.

Debbie Cook ran Flag, she vetted all of the completion speeches for graduation, not for truth, but so they would enhance GI lines. God forbid, what if someone said something that even if true, slowed the GI and bridge progress of others?

She product officered the GI lines which meant "get them in and paying, no matter what".

Debbie pressured Maria Pia Gardini until she had cleaned out the vast majority of her inheritance. I believe the commission she earned from that bought her a car.

When our daughter was brain injured and we were scrambling to find help, Flag called us in for our six month sec check; it was the "Golden Age of Tech" after all and you couldn't be late! So we came with our girl and while our business needed us and we were meant to be doing full time therapy, we instead waited for eleven days to begin our six monthly FPRD sec checks, why? Because 'nothing was more important than getting to Flag!'

To add insult to injury, we went to graduation around that time or at another time and it was when the Congresses were being released, Debbie was pushing them and talking about Hubbard's golden days in the '50s, where the crippled threw away their crutches and the blind saw, miracles! Where were these fucking miracles? There were no miracles now, did that seem odd to Debbie? Not if it got in the way of the sales target!

Then there was the 'bridge blocking' of ex SO enforced by Debbie, a friend of mine was at Flag to do a CCRD, they demanded he get fully trained before being eligible for Flag auditing. The reason for this was some SO members were leaving to go up the bridge, the solution? Block them.

When Debbie got out of court with Jefferys back in Feb, she said in her press conference; "I wish Flag had glass walls so people could see how we ran it, it was incredible".

I nearly bloody gagged.

So now she's sent an e-mail and been dragged through the wringer for it. Wow. The bloody irony.

But she worked at Flag in the SO for over 20 years, on very little pay, considering her position. So what should she be paid? What is she entitled to for helping to perpetrate Hubbard's and then Miscavige's fraud upon her flock? Anything?

Something.

What did she get?

Well according to Marty it's in the seven figures. I have no reason to doubt that. But let's say she's got $3 mill. Sounds great, doesn't it?

Read points one and two of the injunction (markrathbun.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/injunction.pdf) carefully if you believe she got nothing. Heh, what your donations buy!

Well 30% would go to legal, and that's not tax deductible so 30% would go to tax.

Now they have $1 mill and the settlement could be less.

So here's the cruel part; The cult now pays these as a stipend, over ten to thirty years. Debbie is beholding to David Miscavige via OSA for the duration. OSA would be carefully checking through Debbie and Wayne's communications and maybe even Facebook friends before making each installment.

They bought her life. Debbie Cook, once the prison warden is now imprisoned, perhaps by as little as $50,000 per year, maybe less.

Of course all of this is pure speculation on my part, as my desperate friend, Micheal Gordon in OSA ANZO keeps trying to tell me; "Kevin, you know nothing about us!"

Scientology, "the only game where everybody wins".

[Gottabrain]

^^

Kevin, I wish she would have said more and really blown the lid off things. She only came to a partial realization so far.

But she suffered and she'll still be suffering from cognitive dissonance. Money won't cure that. She has undoubtedly lost what she built for 30 years - in mind, religion, life. I'm sure she feels guilt and as she realizes more and more of the truth of what she was selling all these years and the lives she destroyed (rather than "saved"), it will only get harder for her.

I feel sorry for her, as well as for all the people she ignorantly hurt with Scn. It's a game where just about everyone loses, isn't it?

In her short period of time coming forward even in the limited way she did, she managed to get hundreds out and hundreds more seriously questioning things. She did something effective. I wish her some peace, and you, and everyone.

WHEN the wave of bad PR against Scn peaks, it's probably going to go overboard, you know. I see a change in karma happening on a big basis where things are just coming to some sort of finality - complete or not, truth or not. WHEN that wave hits, the majority in the public eye will be aware of Scns crimes and those who do not have the full perspective will react with simply hate. It will be very ugly for Scns. I don't want to see Scns hunted down. I don't want to reverse the abuse. I don't think that's what justice is about and I'm sure you don't, either.

But it's going to happen anyway, this flood of bad views of Scn and Scnists by the general public is going to get out of control soon and people will be people, and some will always look for a new witch to hunt and hurt.

I would hate to be a Scientologist right now. I feel sorry for her just for being one. Does that make sense (?) :confused2:

[SpecialFrog]

When Debbie got out of court with Jefferys back in Feb, she said in her press conference; "I wish Flag had glass walls so people could see how we ran it, it was incredible".

I nearly bloody gagged.


"Incredible" can mean different things. I think most of the general public would find it hard to believe how it is run and what goes on there.

[Feral]

My personal prediction is that they will split up. It wouldn't surprise me if he tries to get back into Scn's good graces.

JMO.

Should Wayne or Debbie ever attempt to re-enter the CofS their presence would only be used to put them in a position to punish and damage them as much as possible.

The vindictive nature of the injunction should be proof enough of that.

[Smilla]

Money money money.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Money money money.




"MAKE MONEY.
MAKE MORE MONEY.
MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE
SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."



There is a much better translation of Ron's Command Intention for all Scientologists. . .



"MAKE MORONS.
MAKE MORE MORONS.
MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE
SO AS TO MAKE MORE MORONS."

[Mick Wenlock]

Money money money.

it's a rich man's world

if I had a little money...

[Mick Wenlock]

Debbie Cook was the the CO of Flag, "The friendliest place in the world", for the duration of my wife and my 15 years there on OTVII.

Once you are on OTVII and you have fatally accepted that you are on one of the last big stages of your journey to Total freedom (tm), well you might as well be tied to a tree, you're now in deliverance country. The way out is so tortured and degraded that you dare not consider it. You were now Flag's bitch.

Debbie Cook ran Flag, she vetted all of the completion speeches for graduation, not for truth, but so they would enhance GI lines. God forbid, what if someone said something that even if true, slowed the GI and bridge progress of others?

She product officered the GI lines which meant "get them in and paying, no matter what".

Debbie pressured Maria Pia Gardini until she had cleaned out the vast majority of her inheritance. I believe the commission she earned from that bought her a car.

When our daughter was brain injured and we were scrambling to find help, Flag called us in for our six month sec check; it was the "Golden Age of Tech" after all and you couldn't be late! So we came with our girl and while our business needed us and we were meant to be doing full time therapy, we instead waited for eleven days to begin our six monthly FPRD sec checks, why? Because 'nothing was more important than getting to Flag!'

To add insult to injury, we went to graduation around that time or at another time and it was when the Congresses were being released, Debbie was pushing them and talking about Hubbard's golden days in the '50s, where the crippled threw away their crutches and the blind saw, miracles! Where were these fucking miracles? There were no miracles now, did that seem odd to Debbie? Not if it got in the way of the sales target!

Then there was the 'bridge blocking' of ex SO enforced by Debbie, a friend of mine was at Flag to do a CCRD, they demanded he get fully trained before being eligible for Flag auditing. The reason for this was some SO members were leaving to go up the bridge, the solution? Block them.

When Debbie got out of court with Jefferys back in Feb, she said in her press conference; "I wish Flag had glass walls so people could see how we ran it, it was incredible".

I nearly bloody gagged.

So now she's sent an e-mail and been dragged through the wringer for it. Wow. The bloody irony.

But she worked at Flag in the SO for over 20 years, on very little pay, considering her position. So what should she be paid? What is she entitled to for helping to perpetrate Hubbard's and then Miscavige's fraud upon her flock? Anything?

Something.

What did she get?

Well according to Marty it's in the seven figures. I have no reason to doubt that. But let's say she's got $3 mill. Sounds great, doesn't it?

Read points one and two of the injunction (markrathbun.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/injunction.pdf) carefully if you believe she got nothing. Heh, what your donations buy!

Well 30% would go to legal, and that's not tax deductible so 30% would go to tax.

Now they have $1 mill and the settlement could be less.

So here's the cruel part; The cult now pays these as a stipend, over ten to thirty years. Debbie is beholding to David Miscavige via OSA for the duration. OSA would be carefully checking through Debbie and Wayne's communications and maybe even Facebook friends before making each installment.

They bought her life. Debbie Cook, once the prison warden is now imprisoned, perhaps by as little as $50,000 per year, maybe less.

Of course all of this is pure speculation on my part, as my desperate friend, Micheal Gordon in OSA ANZO keeps trying to tell me; "Kevin, you know nothing about us!"

Scientology, "the only game where everybody wins".

So Marty says it's seven figures ? Hmm

OK - how would he know? That would mean that someone - either the cofs or Debbie Cook broke the injunction.

If it was Debbie or her team then would that not put her at risk from the cofs or the court?

If the cofs is his "source" doesn't that kind of blow his cover?

[Gadfly]

So Marty says it's seven figures ? Hmm

OK - how would he know? That would mean that someone - either the cofs or Debbie Cook broke the injunction.

If it was Debbie or her team then would that not put her at risk from the cofs or the court?

If the cofs is his "source" doesn't that kind of blow his cover?

Maybe Marty has a "hidden data line"! :duh:

Maybe Marty is using his "OT Abilities" to "remote view" the details of the settlement. :hysterical:

Note: Just a thought, but if there really were Scientologists with REAL OT abilities, shouldn't they be able to "win" without constant use of the courts and OSA overwhelm tactics? :confused2:

As long as they resort to "conventional wog methods" to fight and win their battles, it sort of seems to me that clearly indicates that Scientology DOES NOT WORK (NO OTs, and there never will be any OTs). The only thing that sort of really "works" in Scientology is their OSA intelligence operations (granted the "collateral damage" from their tactics creates more and more negative PR for them).

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Kevin, I wish she would have said more and really blown the lid off things. She only came to a partial realization so far.I don't think that what she said was any attempt to blow the lid off things. I think it was orchestrated by her lawyer to get COS to come to the table. All of the documents that were given to the VV? Same thing - we were never the public for them. There was only one person they were aimed at. The same with the comment that she could tell a lot more. It was to get the attention of the elephant in the room.

I always wondered about why Ray went public with all that stuff. It is because Scientology is trying to position itself as a squeaky clean religion, and it threatens that position quite nicely. The red flag in front of the bull.

If they succeeded in getting cash out of the church, it worked. If the church waved a bunch of dirt on Ray and Debbie in their faces and forced them to settle, perhaps it backfired.

I think since Debbie is a true believer, DM could easily play the "look how you are harming Scientology" card as well. Being a true believer she was easily manipulated by them. Also being a true believer, her goals were different than ours or Martyland's.

Her NYE goal was allegedly to put ethics in on the church. Perhaps it was. And perhaps it morphed into something else when the COS started to take off the gloves. IMO when she talked to her lawyer and he set her straight with a realistic goal. Like get some cash and save your skin, you don't have the wherewithal to fix the church.

What is also interesting is when David Mayo posts here, it is similar to the agreement the judge signed - he says there are certain things he is not allowed too discuss. Like the OT levels. That is also in hers. Humm. Why would that be?

Mimsey

[SpecialFrog]

So Marty says it's seven figures ? Hmm

OK - how would he know?

Marty "knows" many things that are demonstrably untrue. This seems kind of par for the course.

[degraded being]

^^

Kevin, I wish she would have said more and really blown the lid off things. She only came to a partial realization so far.

But she suffered and she'll still be suffering from cognitive dissonance. Money won't cure that. She has undoubtedly lost what she built for 30 years - in mind, religion, life. I'm sure she feels guilt and as she realizes more and more of the truth of what she was selling all these years and the lives she destroyed (rather than "saved"), it will only get harder for her.

I feel sorry for her, as well as for all the people she ignorantly hurt with Scn. It's a game where just about everyone loses, isn't it?

In her short period of time coming forward even in the limited way she did, she managed to get hundreds out and hundreds more seriously questioning things. She did something effective. I wish her some peace, and you, and everyone.

WHEN the wave of bad PR against Scn peaks, it's probably going to go overboard, you know. I see a change in karma happening on a big basis where things are just coming to some sort of finality - complete or not, truth or not. WHEN that wave hits, the majority in the public eye will be aware of Scns crimes and those who do not have the full perspective will react with simply hate. It will be very ugly for Scns. I don't want to see Scns hunted down. I don't want to reverse the abuse. I don't think that's what justice is about and I'm sure you don't, either.

But it's going to happen anyway, this flood of bad views of Scn and Scnists by the general public is going to get out of control soon and people will be people, and some will always look for a new witch to hunt and hurt.

I would hate to be a Scientologist right now. I feel sorry for her just for being one. Does that make sense (?) :confused2:

Makes sense to me, but a time for every purpose under heaven...a time to vent a time to say FUCK YOU!! to someone, without having to try to be the perfect human?

[Arthur Dent]

Should Wayne or Debbie ever attempt to re-enter the CofS their presence would only be used to put them in a position to punish and damage them as much as possible.

The vindictive nature of the injunction should be proof enough of that.

And to make back whatever monies they paid Debbie and Wayne in settlement.
The church will sell them a bridge. :duh: Possibly from the bottom up, and, of course, replete with endless tailor made sec checks.

[LoneWolf]

I believe Debbie had Slappy by the thetan nuts. Debbie probably got big bucks so Slappy wouldn’t be subpoenaed into court and exposed. Looks like to me this was a church back-off.

[Lermanet_com]

In her FB comment to me she intended to end the abuses. She said "we will put an end to it."

Crikey, I know quite a few good people who aged years trying to shoulder that burden. Sometimes enough is enough, and she knows when she hit that point. She did good though. Real good. :clap: :clap: :clap:

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Scientology lost all their trade secret claims that day. (which theoretically, if they had won that day in court, would have been several million in statutory fines, I would "owe" the Fraud (http://www.lermanet.com/reference/graphicindex.htm)of $cientology". And The Washington Post and Richard Leiby (http://www.lermanet.com/leiby.htm)were awarded a half million to cover their attorney costs for being sued for publishing a few words from OT7...
(http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lermaraid091995.html)
My case continued on their copyright claims..

arnie

and re last paragraph, RTC vs Lerma (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/amjurist1195.html) turned my hair from black to grey

[degraded being]

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Scientology lost all their trade secret claims that day. (which theoretically, if they had won that day in court, would have been several million in statutory fines, I would "owe" the Fraud (http://www.lermanet.com/reference/graphicindex.htm)of $cientology". And The Washington Post and Richard Leiby (http://www.lermanet.com/leiby.htm)were awarded a half million to cover their attorney costs for being sued for publishing a few words from OT7...
(http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lermaraid091995.html)
My case continued on their copyright claims..

arnie

and re last paragraph, RTC vs Lerma (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/amjurist1195.html) turned my hair from black to grey

Grey looks nice.

[Rene Descartes]

:no:

I disagree emphatically. David Mayo is a hero. John McMaster was a hero. Nor are they by any count the only ones.


Mark A. Baker

Did you intentionally leave out Jerry Armstrong or was that an oversight?

Any others that you left out?

Were they left out due to shortage of space and time?

End of Amiable Sec Check.

Rd00

[Mick Wenlock]

I believe Debbie had Slappy by the thetan nuts. Debbie probably got big bucks so Slappy wouldn’t be subpoenaed into court and exposed. Looks like to me this was a church back-off.

Well I doubt that she had him "by the nuts" for several reasons.

1) I don't think she knows enough about it all. You are assuming that she has this store of "info" - she does not. The Captain FSO is not privy to most of the incriminating information. She will have a lot of stories of how FSO public were abused, ripped off etc but there agin she was the one doing it , not Miscavige.

2) She has some nasty details about the hole or how she personally was abused or manipulated and while that's annoying for miscavige it really is not anything that is not already out there - so; nuisance - yes, nuts - no.

3) She, like most XSO when we get out, has on overinflated idea of what she "knows". But court cases are not won and settlements are not made on stories especially when you don't have much in the way of evidence. It is one thing to "know" that Miscavige runs Scientology and can order almost anything - it's quite another to actually prove that.

4) She is - as Lulu has pointed out - extremely vulnerable in her own life - with her husbands situation - the fact that she just managed to lose her ability to make any more money sucking blood out of scientologists with her "business" and the fact that she is battling illness. UNless she has video of DM buggering some sort of rodent on the roof of the FH or the names and accounts that he controls then there was no nut clutching going on

[Lulu Belle]

When Debbie got out of court with Jefferys back in Feb, she said in her press conference; "I wish Flag had glass walls so people could see how we ran it, it was incredible".

I nearly bloody gagged.


I had the same reaction.

It was hard for me to imagine that she could possibly be that delusional.

[Lulu Belle]

4) She is - as Lulu has pointed out - extremely vulnerable in her own life - with her husbands situation - the fact that she just managed to lose her ability to make any more money sucking blood out of scientologists with her "business" and the fact that she is battling illness. UNless she has video of DM buggering some sort of rodent on the roof of the FH or the names and accounts that he controls then there was no nut clutching going on

Form the bits and pieces i've picked up here and there, this is kind of what I sense about Debbbie:

She is trying very hard to "obey the rules" in spite of everything. I think the major reason that her husband didn't know what went on at Int was because, when you go uplines, you sign waivers and confidentiality agreements that you never disclose anything about the base. This included the person you were married to, if that person wasn't cleared to go uplines. Even though they were both out, I think that they both were attempting to follow the rules so that they would be in good standing.

I have known other couples where one was posted uplines and the other one wasn't, and this is how it is. The one who isn't cleared for Int doesn't know anything and isn't told anything. And it's all way more locked down then it was 20 years ago.

I suspect that might be whiy she didn't disclose anything about any of this in her January email, either. She was trying to bring attention to some of the "outpoints" without actually disclosing anything that would be deemed confidential.

It seems like she thought that if she followed some kind of what was in her head as "the rules" that she wouldn't get hit.

When this blew up and she was facing an attorney apparently she was convinced to change her mind. I think Mimsey is dead on right.


I don't think that what she said was any attempt to blow the lid off things. I think it was orchestrated by her lawyer to get COS to come to the table.

I don't think she was planning to spill her guts about the hole or any of the rest. I think that her lawyer convinced her to do it. The guy already knew a lot about Scientology. Didn't he say that he read Reitman's book a year ago? He probably already knew about the stuff at Int and assured her that she wasn't giving away anything that wasn't already out there.

I bet that when she was on the witness stand that was the first time she had told anyone about this stuff.

[LA SCN]

... UNless she has video of DM buggering some sort of rodent on the roof of the FH ...

Unfortunately it all happened so FAST nobody was able to get a video of it.

:hysterical:

don't make me explain it...

[LA SCN]

I had to get a professional opinion. Feral is right. Debbie got bucks to STFU.

A friend of mine is a practicing attorney, I asked him to look over the settlement doc and explain to me how it worked that she got money to settle.

He explained that on the face of it, it looks like no money changed hands and Debbie and hubby are forever legally prevented from talking about the Church in the enumerated ways. No more NDA with cash penalties, its now a Permanent Injunction:

Permanent Injunctions
A permanent or perpetual injunction is one that is granted by the judgment that ultimately disposes of the injunction suit, ordered at the time of final judgment. This type of injunction must be final relief. Permanent injunctions are perpetual, provided that the conditions that produced them remain permanent.

What if Debbie violates the injunction?

An individual who violates an injunction may be punished for Contempt of court. A person is not guilty of contempt, however, unless he or she can be charged with knowledge of the injunction. Generally, an individual who is charged with contempt is entitled to a trial or a hearing. The penalty imposed is within the discretion of the court. Ordinarily, punishment is by fine, imprisonment, or both.

(thanks to: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/injunction )

However, and what Feral referred to, is the language in point 2 only excludes the transfer of any money by virtue of the written settlement, the injunction. It says nothing about what was transferred beforehand to get the parties to the point of signing the injunction agreement. That's what I was missing. My friend explained to me that that's typically how 'cash settlements' are agreed upon between the municipality he works for and plaintiffs. The signed agreement says nothing about the money that got the agreement done and binds the recipient to non-disclosure.

So on the face of it, Scn and can claim another 'war is over, we kicked her ass' win. But behind the scenes its known she got the money to STFU.

The only question is how much?

[Lone Star]

According to the settlement agreement Debbie received NO money from the cult. Zero...Zilch...Nada. It even said that each side is responsible for it's own legal fees.

Debbie is not any better off now than she was 4 months ago. She's worse off. Lost her business...all of her CoS friends and relatives...she can't join any Independent movement or group...her marriage is probably under a lot of strain, etc...

Four months ago she thought she'd "go to a rodeo". She just didn't figure on riding a bull herself. She's fortunate that her head didn't get stomped on, figuratively speaking. Her lawyer prevented that from happening. But he couldn't prevent the other "injuries", nor could he help her to win the purse. His idea to counter-sue saved her from losing totally. It led DM to the table. But Debbie didn't get shiite.

( I just read what LASCN wrote above. I see it is possible that she got money before the final agreement. As they say, Dox or ..
Ah who knows anything. This fuckin cult!)

[P Salerno]

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Says quite a bit about the character of the man.

[Lermanet_com]

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Says quite a bit about the character of the man.

yes...and the psychological condition (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25502-The-Essence-of-Scientology&p=634949#post634949) of the man

a Hypothetical perspective... If I had, say, directed the murder of a dozen men, I might likely have a 'feeling' of good conscience if I only had a hand in only one murder recently...as by this time the murder of men would not be such a big deal...after all, they are just 'meat bodies' per Hubbard and especially if I were flat on that expanded OT7 command "Mock up a machine for destroying bodies" while those who have had no contact with scientology are called "Raw meat"?

[Caliwog]

Still have lots of replies to read, but my initial reaction is "Good for Debbie." More thoughts on my blog if anyone cares.

I do NOT think it is plainly obvious that Debbie took money. Scientology sued HER. She knows the true nature of the beast, and now she's seen what its like when the teeth are turned on her. I would think she'd be glad to shut up in exchange for getting them off her back.

That said, the only thing that puzzles me is why Scn would think *this* agreement to keep her mouth shut will stick when the last one didn't.

Still, I think Marty and others just can't accept that someone can just be *done* with something.

Now it's time to read all the replies and see why I'm wrong. :)

[Smurf]

Wow. I don't know if anyone has to look any farther than this for a reason that they settled. Holding your kid hostage is quite powerful as far as getting someone to do what you want them to do.

Unfortunately, if you look at DM's history in this department, that kid is probably in some foreign country now, or hidden at Int. He himself might be in The Hole.

This could very well be what Wayne is afraid of. And with good reason.

The cult has gone a long way of holding people hostage.. Karen de la Carriere has been disconnected from her son Alexander Jentzsch, but Karen refused to bend to OSA's blackmail scheme.

Amy (Harrison) Allen joined Jenna Miscavige & Kendra Wiseman in speaking out against Miscavige & the cult to the media, but she later gave in to OSA'S blackmail so she could reconnect with her parents. In doing so, she was willing to throw Marc & Claire Headley under the bus and disconnect from all her friends & allies outside the cult..

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?7260-Amy-ex-scientology-kids&p=588678&viewfull=1#post588678

[Lermanet_com]

That said, the only thing that puzzles me is why Scn would think *this* agreement to keep her mouth shut will stick when the last one didn't.

because she has now gained 'total certainty' about where the edge of abyss is

[Gadfly]

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -



And THAT is the heart and soul of "standard Scientology"! :yes:

[Ogsonofgroo]

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"
Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

And THAT is the heart and soul of "standard Scientology"! << (Gady)

And this sort of quote should be up and front of what people look at when they are curious about CoS, it is a cruel and greedy scam and should always be displayed in its true light IMHO.
Beyond me why even the light-weight apologists (you know who you are) cannot see the clear-cut for the forest :shrug:


:duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh: :duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh:

[Mark A. Baker]

Did you intentionally leave out Jerry Armstrong or was that an oversight?

Any others that you left out?

Were they left out due to shortage of space and time?

End of Amiable Sec Check.

Rd00

No. I used ellipsis to avoid a listing process.


See the following, especially item 3.


Ellipsis El*lip"sis ([e^]l*l[i^]p"s[i^]s), n.; pl. Ellipses
([e^]l*l[i^]p"s[=e]z). [L., fr. Gr. 'e`lleipsis a leaving,
defect, fr. 'ellei`pein to leave in, fall short; 'en in +
lei`pein to leave. See In, and Loan, and cf. Ellipse.]

1. (Gram.) Omission; a figure of syntax, by which one or more
words, which are obviously understood, are omitted; as,
the virtues I admire, for, the virtues which I admire.
[1913 Webster]

2. (Geom.) An ellipse. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

3. (Printing) a printing symbol, usually three periods in a
row (. . .), indicating the omission of some part of a
text; -- used commonly in quotations, so as to suppress
words not essential to the meaning. A long dash (---) and
three asterisks (* * *) are sometimes used with the same
meaning.
[PJC]

Feel free to provide your own list. :biggrin:


Mark A. Baker

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Scientology lost all their trade secret claims that day. (which theoretically, if they had won that day in court, would have been several million in statutory fines, I would "owe" the Fraud (http://www.lermanet.com/reference/graphicindex.htm)of $cientology". And The Washington Post and Richard Leiby (http://www.lermanet.com/leiby.htm)were awarded a half million to cover their attorney costs for being sued for publishing a few words from OT7...
(http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lermaraid091995.html)
My case continued on their copyright claims..

arnie

and re last paragraph, RTC vs Lerma (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/amjurist1195.html) turned my hair from black to grey

Arnie, that was a nice article you linked to in this post. I had not read it before. Thanks for linking to it!

[BunnySkull]

Marty is now offering refunds to any of his Debbie donors, awaiting the wall of people begging Marty to keep any money and then rally to donate more because he is pure and unsoiled by CoS bribes.

I really don't care either way and maybe it's nice that Marty makes a token gesture of refunds BUT what I hate is his supposed posting of accounting for these funds. All he does is type a bunch of numbers, offer NO proof they have any validity - no bank or pay pal statements, no accountants, no invoices, nada and expect people to praise him for his transparency and honesty.

His stats and accounting have as much proof behind them as CoS stats. But, of course, that's where he learned his creative accounting and stat creation..

[Jquepublic]

No. I used ellipsis to avoid a listing process.


See the following, especially item 3.



Feel free to provide your own list. :biggrin:


Mark A. Baker

In the future, if you just allow me my moment of petulance, you won't get dragged into these strange listing questions. :eyeroll:

Now that I'm over it, I'm not as unhappy over what has taken place. It's not the ending I hoped for, but the testimony was damaging and cannot be undone no matter how much money may or may not change hands. So it's all good.

[degraded being]

yes...and the psychological condition (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25502-The-Essence-of-Scientology&p=634949#post634949) of the man

a Hypothetical perspective... If I had, say, directed the murder of a dozen men, I might likely have a 'feeling' of good conscience if I only had a hand in only one murder recently...as by this time the murder of men would not be such a big deal...after all, they are just 'meat bodies' per Hubbard and especially if I were flat on that expanded OT7 command "Mock up a machine for destroying bodies" while those who have had no contact with scientology are called "Raw meat"?

And the fact that a lot of the crimes and abuse inside the cult became so "normalised", accounts for the way exes often plead that so-and-so needs time to "decompress", or to emerge from their cultic conditioning with a new non-cult perspective. These things (abuses and crimes) now seem "normal" to exes, even as they yell about how terrible they were, and are, and so exes beg for mercy for the ciminals even as they condemn. M&M are the classic examples of crims have their victims trying to give them an easy ride. Criminals outside the ex cult nest, do not get this, they just go to court and if convicted, go to jail.

[Lulu Belle]

Marty is now offering refunds to any of his Debbie donors, awaiting the wall of people begging Marty to keep any money and then rally to donate more because he is pure and unsoiled by CoS bribes.

I really don't care either way and maybe it's nice that Marty makes a token gesture of refunds BUT what I hate is his supposed posting of accounting for these funds. All he does is type a bunch of numbers, offer NO proof they have any validity - no bank or pay pal statements, no accountants, no invoices, nada and expect people to praise him for his transparency and honesty.

His stats and accounting have as much proof behind them as CoS stats. But, of course, that's where he learned his creative accounting and stat creation..

seemed a little...ser-fac-y... :p

[Lermanet_com]

And the fact that a lot of the crimes and abuse inside the cult became so "normalised", accounts for the way exes often plead that so-and-so needs time to "decompress", or to emerge from their cultic conditioning with a new non-cult perspective. These things (abuses and crimes) now seem "normal" to exes, even as they yell about how terrible they were, and are, and so exes beg for mercy for the ciminals even as they condemn. M&M are the classic examples of crims have their victims trying to give them an easy ride. Criminals outside the ex cult nest, do not get this, they just go to court and if convicted, go to jail.

Not the WHY in every case.

My reason for wanting to give M&M some time was due to my own experience of not wanting to even try to sort out my scientology expereince, which did not include any crimes or knowlege of such, just incompetence and psychosis, for ten years after I left, but it took the net to wake me up (http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lerma.html) and get me motivated to get in at least a few good licks for satisfaction for having been tricked (http://www,lermanet.com/LRonHubbard.htm) by artifice to waste ten years of my youth upon Ron's lies.

This and Flo Conway's epic book SNAPPING

http://bks2.books.google.com/books?id=jrkq7s2i12EC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE700Ay63qz0kT-FWfsdlmzM2i9OWZAIlg34UwAcBlfBWVCS0ed8golrrrnD8wFY6 t3Z0RwPt7qzT6qrMHOm9LKsmFMF8YWp0Ll3pfYQpHbovWNdjvj zt9Mg_aUcQ-JaWChp8nO8_ (http://books.google.com/books/about/Snapping.html?id=jrkq7s2i12EC)

which states that scientology has the longest recovery time of any cult....

[Caliwog]

Marty is now offering refunds to any of his Debbie donors...

Oh, for fuck's sake.

See, this is how Scientologists are. They can't just give for the sake of giving... they give and they expect something in return. (And that, to me, is not what giving is all about.)

It's all down to Hubtard's policy on "Exchange," another brilliant part of the Scientology scam. Planning to write a blog entry about that lovely little policy next week.

[Lermanet_com]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

See, this is how Scientologists are. They can't just give for the sake of giving... they give and they expect something in return. (And that, to me, is not what giving is all about.)

It's all down to Hubtard's policy on "Exchange," another brilliant part of the Scientology scam. Planning to write a blog entry about that lovely little policy next week.

If the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi) were assimilated by the Borg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29) you'd get scientology

[Jquepublic]

If the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi) were assimilated by the Borg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29) you'd get scientology

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

That's friggin hilarious because it's TRUE!! I love that analogy, totally stealing it. ;) Don't worry, I'll give you credit! :biglove:

[Jquepublic]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

See, this is how Scientologists are. They can't just give for the sake of giving... they give and they expect something in return. (And that, to me, is not what giving is all about.)

It's all down to Hubtard's policy on "Exchange," another brilliant part of the Scientology scam. Planning to write a blog entry about that lovely little policy next week.

Some can. I thought I detected an undertone of 'fuck Debbie" in the post he made about getting that money back. He didn't HAVE to say anything at all. Or he could have just as easily and far more gallantly pointed out that the funds were spent to get Debbie's testimony on record and encouraged people not to ask for their money back. Instead he reminded his readers of some promise or other and started the ball rolling to get people to request that she return their legal fund donations.

I think Marty took her settlement personally.

[Caliwog]

If the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi) were assimilated by the Borg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29) you'd get scientology

No way. If the Ferengi were assimilated by the Borg and then transmorphed into a hamster running on a gold-plated wheel, <i>then</i> you would have Scientology.

[Caliwog]

I thought I detected an undertone of 'fuck Debbie" in the post he made about getting that money back...I think Marty took her settlement personally.

Ya think?

Check out my blog entry tomorrow afternoon, in which I compare the reaction of ESMBers to Emma's departure with the reaction of Marty's sheep to Debbie's settlement. Most of them don't give a crap about the fact that Debbie is moving on with their life; all they seem to care about is that she won't be around to help fulful Marty's revenge policy.

Compare how Scn ran Bob Minton to the ground with the way they gave up on Debbie. What are the differences? 1) Debbie has more damaging information and 2) Marty and Mike no longer work there. Knowing how Scns view enemies, I put more stock in the latter than the former.

Say what you will about DM, but the Church's most ruthless days since LRH's death were when M&M were running things. They can be, if you'll excuse the British phrase, ruthless little cunts when they need to be. (No way would I poke Marty with a stick the way I do if he had the Church's financial muscle behind him.)

The Squirrel Busters are chickenshit compared to what they did when Marty was around. (Right, Arnie?) And even that stuff is child's play compared to what they did when LRH was alive. (Right, Paulette?)

[DoneDeal]

This and Flo Conway's epic book SNAPPING

http://bks2.books.google.com/books?id=jrkq7s2i12EC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE700Ay63qz0kT-FWfsdlmzM2i9OWZAIlg34UwAcBlfBWVCS0ed8golrrrnD8wFY6 t3Z0RwPt7qzT6qrMHOm9LKsmFMF8YWp0Ll3pfYQpHbovWNdjvj zt9Mg_aUcQ-JaWChp8nO8_ (http://books.google.com/books/about/Snapping.html?id=jrkq7s2i12EC)

which states that scientology has the longest recovery time of any cult....

Thank you for the book link
Interesting, Chapter 13 page 172 and up talks about scn rehab.
At your link we can read the whole book.

[degraded being]

Not the WHY in every case.

My reason for wanting to give M&M some time was due to my own experience of not wanting to even try to sort out my scientology expereince, which did not include any crimes or knowlege of such, just incompetence and psychosis, for ten years after I left, but it took the net to wake me up (http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lerma.html) and get me motivated to get in at least a few good licks for satisfaction for having been tricked (http://www,lermanet.com/LRonHubbard.htm) by artifice to waste ten years of my youth upon Ron's lies.

This and Flo Conway's epic book SNAPPING

http://bks2.books.google.com/books?id=jrkq7s2i12EC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&edge=curl&imgtk=AFLRE700Ay63qz0kT-FWfsdlmzM2i9OWZAIlg34UwAcBlfBWVCS0ed8golrrrnD8wFY6 t3Z0RwPt7qzT6qrMHOm9LKsmFMF8YWp0Ll3pfYQpHbovWNdjvj zt9Mg_aUcQ-JaWChp8nO8_ (http://books.google.com/books/about/Snapping.html?id=jrkq7s2i12EC)

which states that scientology has the longest recovery time of any cult....

Well, yeah, but I assume in your case you were not actively setting up your own cool aid stall. My post was not meant to be too prescriptive...not meant to say that anyone who wants to try to see it from the perpertrator's point of view is wrong, but it is an issue IMO and in some cases, seeing it from the perpertrators' point of view crosses the line into continuing the victim role.

That book cover looks interesting.
I really like: :"America's epidemic of sudden personality change".

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings - it was her saying she didn't realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm... What could that mean?

This is my take on it - Debbie goes to the lawyer about the NDA violation. After Ray reads it and then talks to her, he finds out about the way she as coecerced into signing it. Then he finds out about her time in the hole. That is a clear and obvious criminal act. A major violation of her rights. The question becomes how to get the church to pay, and pay dearly.

So he sets a trap - in the hearing he has her recount her imprisonment in the hole. The NDA is instantly toast, the church bails from the courtroom. Next they try to mess with him, so he lets the VV and others post some stuff. She does the TV interview. It gets splashed all over the media. They get the message: pay up or this will get dragged into open court and the church will be really embarassed.

Thus, the Church pays her big time, the injunction is approved by the court. Justice has been done.

Good for her.

Mimsey

[degraded being]

Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings - it was her saying she didn't realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm... What could that mean?

This is my take on it - Debbie goes to the lawyer about the NDA violation. After Ray reads it and then talks to her, he finds out about the way she as coecerced into signing it. Then he finds out about her time in the hole. That is a clear and obvious criminal act. A major violation of her rights. The question becomes how to get the church to pay, and pay dearly.

So he sets a trap - in the hearing he has her recount her imprisonment in the hole. The NDA is instantly toast, the church bails from the courtroom. Next they try to mess with him, so he lets the VV and others post some stuff. She does the TV interview. They get the message: pay up or this will get dragged into open court and the church will be really embarassed.

Thus, the Church pays her big time, the injunction is approved by the court. Justice has been done.

Good for her.

Mimsey


From my possibly limited understanding of things...that looks like just as good a stab at it as any other I've seen....and very satisfying for the audience.

[Lulu Belle]

Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings - it was her saying she didn't realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm... What could that mean?

This is my take on it - Debbie goes to the lawyer about the NDA violation. After Ray reads it and then talks to her, he finds out about the way she as coecerced into signing it. Then he finds out about her time in the hole. That is a clear and obvious criminal act. A major violation of her rights. The question becomes how to get the church to pay, and pay dearly.

So he sets a trap - in the hearing he has her recount her imprisonment in the hole. The NDA is instantly toast, the church bails from the courtroom. Next they try to mess with him, so he lets the VV and others post some stuff. She does the TV interview. It gets splashed all over the media. They get the message: pay up or this will get dragged into open court and the church will be really embarassed.

Thus, the Church pays her big time, the injunction is approved by the court. Justice has been done.

Good for her.

Mimsey


works for me. :)

[Ogsonofgroo]

works for me. :)

Yupperz, hell, we don't really know but this possibilty sortta makes it all warm and fuzzy :)

[LA SCN]

In the future, if you just allow me my moment of petulance, you won't get dragged into these strange listing questions. :eyeroll:
...

Ooohh...petulance...:biglove: :pixiedust:

:yes:

[degraded being]

Mimsey's theory makes sense.
Deb was all so "on policy" about the way she sent the email, she didn't hang out with Sp's etc etc etc. She was doing it the ON POLICY way.....then, before her arse had warmed up that witness box seat, she'd broadcast to the whole wide world about all the shit going on in inside. How "on policy" was that?
And THAT was not due to naivety, even if some of her other moves were. She knows you dont pour shit over the org in public.

So.....a trap....?

[LA SCN]

If the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi) were assimilated by the Borg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29) you'd get scientology

THAT IS scientology...Hubbard is Ferengi and The Dwarf is Borg...C'mon shoopers, let's roll!

:thumbsup: :yes:

[HelluvaHoax!]

There was a hearing Nov 30th 1995, +- a few days, Mike rinder buttonholed me in the hallway, asking, "What will it take to make this all go away?" at the same time my Internet provider was also being approached... i later learned Their insurance company agreed to settle their case then there... at a loss.

I told Mr Rinder, something like, "I'd settle when scientology stopped abusing people"

Mr Rinder, without a pause or a blink,, said "We will never do that" -

I said.. Let's go to court! or 'then, see you in court"

Scientology lost all their trade secret claims that day. (which theoretically, if they had won that day in court, would have been several million in statutory fines, I would "owe" the Fraud (http://www.lermanet.com/reference/graphicindex.htm)of $cientology". And The Washington Post and Richard Leiby (http://www.lermanet.com/leiby.htm)were awarded a half million to cover their attorney costs for being sued for publishing a few words from OT7...
(http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lermaraid091995.html)
My case continued on their copyright claims..

arnie

and re last paragraph, RTC vs Lerma (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/amjurist1195.html) turned my hair from black to grey



Cool post!

Hey, on the subject of being "buttonholed" by a cult member. . .


"BUTTONHOLE. 'Barricade your door against the button-holding world!' a British magazine warned its readers over a century ago. 'Button-holding,' grabbing a man by the top button of his coat and holding on with all the strength of the boring until you sell him one thing or another,' was so common in the early 19th century that button-holder was defined in many dictionaries as 'one who takes hold of a man's coat by the button so as to detain him in conversation.' People must have been button-holding and wearying people in France, too, at the time, for the French had a similar phrase. In those days men's coats had buttons all the way up to the neck, including one on the lapel that could be buttoned in cold weather. When fashion decreed that upper buttons be eliminated, button-holders didn't suddenly reform. Instead they began grabbing people by the buttonholes (that) designers, for no good reason, left on the lapels and the phrase became to buttonhole." From "The Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson).

Whether the original "buttonhold" or the later derivative "buttonhole", that term has a peculiarly befitting resonance when it comes to Scientology and Debbie Cook; thus, one may wish to consider:


* Debbie Cook (and Mike Rinder and other raw meat recruits) were likewise forcefully held by the cult's oppressively aggressive salesman (like their early 19th century counterparts) until they agreed to buy Scientology.

* The term captures yet another aspect of Scientology's mind-control techniques in the literal sense that it uses the Scientologists own "buttons" (i.e. weaknesses) to hold them on the (toll) Bridge, paying vast sums at regular intervals to travel the (toll) Road to Total Freedom.

* Extrapolating further, Ron's ultra-humanitarian Sea Org also practices the dark "buttonhole" arts by literally throwing Debbie Cook in the "hole" at Int headquarters, where she was held prisoner and stood in a garbage can while vicious cult devotees took turns hurling cold water and epithets while taunting, slapping and terrorizing her.

These things were all done for Debbie's good, mind you, and so that Debbie could become a more productive member of the team that was ridding the world of criminality and insanity.

CONCLUSION: The cult and its member are quite mentally ill, driven so by the "modern science of mental health". Debbie Cook's, the Indie's and the CoS's behavior can neither be predicted, trusted nor understood, because they are Scientologists. To even attempt to comprehend Debbie Cook's settlement with the Church of Scientology on this litigation, one must realize that Debbie Cook is still "in the hole" being controlled by her "buttons" because she has long since forfeited her own common sense to a ruthless con man named L. Ron Hubbard and his assigns.

[Caliwog]

Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings - it was her saying she didn't realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm... What could that mean?

It indicates how much Scientologists become isolated from the real world. They are told lies and they believe them, because a) they are conditioned to respect and submit to authority and b) they believe that all the knowledge they need to live has been provided by L. Ron Hubbard.

This is not an exaggeration. LRH talks all kinds of crazy shit about what people do in the wog world, like gardeners who are so "abberated" that they try to dig holes with their lawnmowers. Shit like that - and Scientologists actually take that at face value, because they've been conditioned to think LRH has all the answers.

In truth, LRH had none of the answers, except the answer to "How do I get the money and power that I feel is my due, but was denied to me because most of the world understands that I'm a useless, lazy, demanding, self-deluded crackpot?"

[Caliwog]

Whether the original "buttonhold" or the later derivative "buttonhole", that term has a peculiarly befitting resonance when it comes to Scientology and Debbie Cook...

...and when it comes to L. Ron Hubbard, the term "butthole" is also appropriate. :)

[LA SCN]

Mike, Marty, How does it seem to you now?

(repetitive process to EP)

:hysterical:

[Caliwog]

Debbie Cook's, the Indie's and the CoS's behavior can neither be predicted, trusted nor understood, because they are Scientologists.

For once, HH, I disagree with you. If you know the Condition Formulas, any Scientologist's behavior is fairy easy to predict. If you can figure out what condition they think they are in, you have some idea of which direction they will go. And if you know enough LRH policy, you can guess pretty reliably exactly what they will do.

I've been able to successfully predict the direction Marty's posts would go in the past... like when he started attacking David Mayo and everyone got pissed off. You could see the "We all hate David Miscavige" posts coming a mile away.

[paradox]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

See, this is how Scientologists are. They can't just give for the sake of giving... they give and they expect something in return. (And that, to me, is not what giving is all about.)

It's all down to Hubtard's policy on "Exchange," another brilliant part of the Scientology scam. Planning to write a blog entry about that lovely little policy next week.

<tsk, tsk> Being a Caliwog, of course you don't quite get it. Marty explains it, in his usual self-deprecating style thus-and-so [emphasis added],




I was asked by a donor to Debbie’s page whether receiving such money would be to receive blood money. My answer was that I do not think that at all given the representations under which it was collected, other public representations on this blog by Debbie, and given my well educated estimation of what the defendants received. I think not to get it back would be to saddle Debbie and Wayne with an overt that would plague them further on down the road.


I think that the energy of independents should be returned to them.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/final-reckoning-cook-v-miscavige/


So there you have it, and straight from the Mount; the simple equanimity inherent in Exchange policy. It's a completely selfless, altruistic act performed out of deep and abiding concern about the future welfare of the other person(s).

[HelluvaHoax!]

For once, HH, I disagree with you. If you know the Condition Formulas, any Scientologist's behavior is fairly easy to predict. If you can figure out what condition they think they are in, you have some idea of which direction they will go. And if you know enough LRH policy, you can guess pretty reliably exactly what they will do.

I've been able to successfully predict the direction Marty's posts would go in the past... like when he started attacking David Mayo and everyone got pissed off. You could see the "We all hate David Miscavige" posts coming a mile away.


I quite agree with you that Scientologists are "fairly easy to predict".

It's kind of like predicting the weather.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_leveXFexMeE/STWfFpw9nOI/AAAAAAAAAKE/7ulG2RUO5Pk/s320/weatherman.jpg

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology
is partly cloudy with a chance of crazy.

[Gadfly]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_leveXFexMeE/STWfFpw9nOI/AAAAAAAAAKE/7ulG2RUO5Pk/s320/weatherman.jpg

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology
is partly cloudy with a chance of crazy.

:hysterical: :thumbsup:

Though I might rephrase it as:

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology is heavy delusion and craziness with a moderate chance of viciously abusive.

[FreeBeing]

I quite agree with you that Scientologists are "fairly easy to predict".

It's kind of like predicting the weather.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_leveXFexMeE/STWfFpw9nOI/AAAAAAAAAKE/7ulG2RUO5Pk/s320/weatherman.jpg

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology
is partly cloudy with a chance of crazy.


:hysterical: :thumbsup:

Though I might rephrase it as:

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology is heavy delusion and craziness with a moderate chance of viciously abusive.


HUBBARD COMMUNICATION OFFICE
TARGET TWO
HCO POLICY LETTER 24 OF April 2012
ISSUE 1

CANCELLING SCIENTOLOGY

This is LRH communicating from Target Two. I didn't think that scientology would last beyond my body death.

It was all a big hoot taking all your money, good times, good times. Seeing all this discord happening over lil ole me has become pure enturbulation. Law suites, deaths, broken dreams, financial ruin, it can't continue.

The last straw are the crazy scientologist/weather cracks. That hurts. I've seen some joking and degrading on my time track but that's it. Scientology is cancelled, effective immediately.

L RON HUBBARD,
FOUNDER

[Mark A. Baker]

:hysterical: :thumbsup:

Though I might rephrase it as:

Today, the fact-forecast with Scientology is heavy delusion and craziness with a moderate chance of viciously abusive.

Sounds like some critics I know.


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:

[HelluvaHoax!]

Sounds like some critics I know.


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:


More vague innuendo?

Why can't you ever say who these mysterious critics are that you are criticizing?

Something to do with Ron's successful action of remaining Fabian?

[Stat]

HUBBARD COMMUNICATION OFFICE
TARGET TWO
HCO POLICY LETTER 24 OF April 2012
ISSUE 1

CANCELLING SCIENTOLOGY

This is LRH communicating from Target Two. I didn't think that scientology would last beyond my body death.

It was all a big hoot taking all your money, good times, good times. Seeing all this discord happening over lil ole me has become pure enturbulation. Law suites, deaths, broken dreams, financial ruin, it can't continue.

The last straw are the crazy scientologist/weather cracks. That hurts. I've seen some joking and degrading on my time track but that's it. Scientology is cancelled, effective immediately.

L RON HUBBARD,
FOUNDER

Dear FreeBeing, can you please post this HCO PL on Marty's blog, Tony's VV,
WWP, OCMB and any other web place you can think of, because if you won't
I will. Also, because it's really fucking brilliant! :thumbsup: :yes:

[I told you I was trouble]

Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings - it was her saying she didn't realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm... What could that mean?

This is my take on it - Debbie goes to the lawyer about the NDA violation. After Ray reads it and then talks to her, he finds out about the way she as coecerced into signing it. Then he finds out about her time in the hole. That is a clear and obvious criminal act. A major violation of her rights. The question becomes how to get the church to pay, and pay dearly.

So he sets a trap - in the hearing he has her recount her imprisonment in the hole. The NDA is instantly toast, the church bails from the courtroom. Next they try to mess with him, so he lets the VV and others post some stuff. She does the TV interview. It gets splashed all over the media. They get the message: pay up or this will get dragged into open court and the church will be really embarassed.

Thus, the Church pays her big time, the injunction is approved by the court. Justice has been done.

Good for her.

Mimsey



I'd been half believing that Debbie Cook (like most people) could see that Miscavige was a mini (but vicious) monster and that this was her effort (while safely off staff) to be a hero and to try and get rid of him for the sake of planetary clearing (lol) and because she believed that tubs hubbard would have been smiling down upon her (lol again).

Your theory makes far more sense.

As Smilla said "money, money money" ... apparently Debbie Cook has 'regged' quite a lot of that in her time in the cofs and has now finally worked out how to 'reg' some for herself, and I don't buy that she was in any way naïve at all, she knew where she was going and it looks as if she got there.

[Caliwog]

apparently Debbie Cook has 'regged' quite a lot of that in her time in the cofs and has now finally worked out how to 'reg' some for herself, and I don't buy that she was in any way naïve at all, she knew where she was going and it looks as if she got there.

Scientology and Scientologists often give the illusion of intelligence far beyond what they actually posses.

I'm pretty sure Debbie Cook is a total Kool-Aid(tm) drinker. She believes with all her heart and soul. I don't think this was a money grab... I think this was a heartfelt action by someone who genuinely thinks DM is the problem with Scientology, and doesn't see that the scam began with LRH.

[Smurf]

I'm pretty sure Debbie Cook is a total Kool-Aid(tm) drinker. She believes with all her heart and soul. I don't think this was a money grab... I think this was a heartfelt action by someone who genuinely thinks DM is the problem with Scientology, and doesn't see that the scam began with LRH.

You're correct, but Debbie is one of those that believe the tech works regardless of whether LRH was a nutcase or not.

Alot of medical advances occurred post-1945 that were the basis of Nazi research in Germany, despite the fact that the Nazis used slave labor as human guinea pigs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/naziexp.html

[I told you I was trouble]

Scientology and Scientologists often give the illusion of intelligence far beyond what they actually posses.



True, but I was thinking more of 'cunning and manipulative' TBH.

:yes:


I'm pretty sure Debbie Cook is a total Kool-Aid(tm) drinker. She believes with all her heart and soul. I don't think this was a money grab... I think this was a heartfelt action by someone who genuinely thinks DM is the problem with Scientology, and doesn't see that the scam began with LRH.




Ah well, she's out now whether she truly wanted to be or not, so maybe the money will assist to soothe her heart and soul and perhaps buy a nice house and whatever other "MEST" she wants.

Many of us have, by working hard, effectively contributed to her slush fund ... we just didn't know it at the time!

Still, mustn't grumble ...

:coolwink:

[degraded being]

I think she went after the money and DM> ...she just had plan A and plan B brilliantly coordinated, with the help of her lawyer.

[Gadfly]

More vague innuendo?

Why can't you ever say who these mysterious critics are that you are criticizing?

Something to do with Ron's successful action of remaining Fabian?

Or, maybe provide an example or two to support the general claim? :duh:

Remaining Fabian goes hand-in-hand with "never relaying detailed specifics and always remaining vague" (generalizing). Or, as with Hubbard and Scientology, when specifics are needed to justify the general claim, MAKE THEM UP! :ohmy: