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Wisened One
7th February 2008, 02:43 AM
Hi all:

Haven't visited here for a long time, glad to be back!:)

Looking for any Miami Org ex-public/Staff?

WO

ThisFenceHurts
23rd February 2008, 09:45 AM
Don\'t know much about the Miami Org but I do know that there are a few families living Clw for quite some time that had ties to Miami.

One of them was the Calkins family...David was regging for Mace-Kingsley Field Group, Nancy was regging for Delphi Academy of Florida, daughter Rhea was in Alaska, Gina was a student at Delphi as was Sandra. Although they would be older now.

Another is the Kirtley family. James passed away within the past few years. Carol is still active and the children Kelly and Matthew are as well.

I believe Judy Blum was also in Clw for some services recently.

-TFH

Wisened One
23rd February 2008, 04:59 PM
Hey, TFH:

Thanks! I knew Caulinks family, nice people..and Blum family too....don't know Kirtley tho. Anyone else from there you know anything about?

Appreciate the updates!

Wisened One

XenuEtrawls
29th July 2009, 09:38 PM
James Kirtley, who I also found out died a few short yrs ago, had wavy/curly dark hair and spoke Spanish fluently since -as he always said- went to college and had mostly Cuban friends. He started out in the Public courseroom & then became one of three Ethics Officers at the time with John Bravo & Rick, forget his last name. James & John were over 6 fr tall & Rick towered over them at 6'3"-6'4" James's wife worked as either ED or a top exec at the Delphi Acad in CW and James himself became VERY successful working with his long time friend, and also ex-MM staff member, Mike Kaplan who brought James into the company, I believe HE founded. Kaplan & fmly can also be found on the "contributors" list of the other message I sent you.

As for John Bravo, I met him at the "Carreta" restaurant on Bird Rd & 87th ave. and he was trying to get me to join what I considered back then a "squirrel" group he'd joined. He actually looked good but he also was always smiling and had a good sense of humor. Oh and before I forget, James Kirtley was one of the sweetest most genuine & sincere straightforward kind of person I've ever met. It's too bad he passed away. He was perhaps a yr or two older than me, maybe even younger but definitely around MY age and I'm not quite ready to "drop my body" just yet. lol

After James, I liked Fred best but obviously there were -as you yourself know- many VERY GOOD people in Miami at around the same time. Dave Tropf, the ED when I joined was the Qual Sec for many yrs before becoming ED and taking MM Org to new heights. We were back then St Hill size, before there was even a Birthday game. The ED before him was John Sexmith, whose name also appears on the *new mag leak*

I didn't know Judi Blum & fmly were in CW. Her pic can be seen in the MM mag leak & last I know she was still MM staff or at least FSM. Dave & Nancy Caulkins were in CW but Nancy had finished her contract with Delphi as her kids had finished school & she was no longer working for them when I met them at Wayne Eisenman's home. Also there as I said were Fred & Kate Fig., Shaun & Vicki Carrol (Remember Fred was also married to Vicki, right? That boy got around:) Scott (there were two Scotts I rem) but the one who was acad admin was there too. He was studying to become a lawyer. The other Scott had long blond hair, kinda wavy and hung around with Alexis Rodriguez, don't know if you know him.

Then the last time I went to Flag and Tampa org, I met Denise, who worked with Leona as letter reges way back. Denise was married to Ray who was one time the MM Org intern sup. I forget their last name. I also met Darrell Kirkland -remember him and his brother Duane or Dwayne?, who was married to (but divorced) Martha Kirkland [She was also in CW and kept the name] How about commercial realtor Jorge Correa & his wife, Maria? They lived in Coral Gables near the org but they divorced and Jorge re-married a Venezuelan girl & moved also to CW. I know he got pretty high on the Bridge, doing all 3 Ls before I lost touch with them. Jorge & Maria are of Cuban heritage. How about George Bravo, who was LOC & KTL sup? And David & Mary DeMoss? I met up with David in CW also, or Tampa (same diff) CW & Tampa Org are 15-20 mins apart driving dist. I also saw Mary at Delphi but I never liked her much, to be honest. Dave I liked. They were already divorced & I hear Mary remarried and, of course, she's now blown too. She's disappeared. Maybe Mark Bunker is hiding her out >:) I know he seemed to like her from what things he wrote about her.

Let's see who else? Kat & Gary Bottorf? I didn't like either as well. Gary was my senior at one time in HCO & well, not many liked him in those days. He was HCO Cope Officer. :-) What of Celia Alvarez, then Madigan? She was married to two auditors, George Alvarez (who got SP declared - I just ran across his name on the latest SP list from 1992) and Tom Madigan (who died about 10 yrs ago) I think she's remarried but she was Treas Sec for the longest, then became ESTO or HES, I'm not sure. She's STILL MM staff as are Leah & Leona. And Mark & Lisa Witt? Both good people. Lisa was also my auditor once & she had a very natural affinity, in or out of an auditing session.

Okay, I'll stop here. I enjopy writing, as you can probably tell, plus I, too, have been meaning to find other Miami Org people on this forum.

If you have any specific questions, ask away. Thanks for reading.

Until the next one. :-)

Wisened One
29th July 2009, 10:37 PM
Hey again, I replied to your post in my other Thread, btw! :) And can't wait for your PM!

Yep, remember most of the people you name...

Gary Bottorff! Not too bad of a human being, I don't guess, but HE'S the one who held me in a freezing room for 2 hrs (or longer) lecturing me and Black Postulating for me about how I was gonna die, my marriage was gonna die, I was gonna get Cancer, or commit suicide, etc, etc, etc! :angry:

His wife audited me once out of a strange break I had after receiving auditing from a student, good auditor, but didn't know her or anything....

And yep, always liked Lisa! Mark Witt was nice too...

Mary DeMoss: I got along with her ok while we were Staff together but she always had sort of an.....attitude.......I DID like her husband at the time David DeMoss though! VERY nice guy! He helped me become more fluent in Spanish (since he spoke it fluently) and was also my last Auditor and a good one at that! (I say, even tho I blew..and it was NOT due to my Auditing! I repeat!).

Celia Madigan! Sweet lady! She was Treas sec when we were there! Always liked her! Heard she's still there as another post, tho.

Leona Grimm: she was married to Helmuth Grimm. They divorced when I was there. I never dealt with her too much, but she seemed nice. So she's still there, too, huh?

Boy this is really awesome chatting about all these people with another MM Ex! :happydance:

Michelle

XenuEtrawls
31st August 2009, 08:36 AM
Yes, and btw, Celia's husband or ex, now - Tom Madigan (also my auditor) - passed away a number of yrs ago. She's remarried, again: Third time's a charm. I know the guy but can't remember the name. He's in the Miami mag leak pic kneeling next to Celia -FLASH ANSWER! "SNAP!" C'mon u frickin lazy out work File Clerk: Scott Fitzgerald! - Thank you for telling me that. It's Scott Fitzgerald. LOL

And Helmuth remarried, as well. I forget his wife's name but she used to do services at the MM Org and then I met up with her at the Orlando Org and I went to visit him once. Had a picnic with him & his wife & kids.

Btw, personally, you're the 1st person who's had anything nice to say about Gary. :) But hey, I don't want to be guilty of alloying anyone's affinity. I guess we're all good people deep down. I never had the proper equipment to dig THAT deep with Gary. He had his moments, let's just say. In my better moments, I love everyone; including assholes. ROFL That was a french word "ahsoles" is pronounced. It means "lonely people" :oX

And I go way back with all of them; since 1978. Leona used to be a letter reg in what was called "the annex" which was the bldg next door, with Denise Sieger. She was nice (both Leona & Denise) Celia is nice, too but she's "burnt out" and has been in the cult ALL her life. Her mother who died in the very early 80s was LRH's secretary at one time & ran estates. Her dad was an auditor at the Miami Org. I forget who passed away first. Janet was her name.

David DeMoss is a sweet guy. Oh and you don't mention it here but you're right, Bob Addis is never anywhere to be found. Maybe he blew! ;-)

Btw, I spoke on the phone with Telepathetic for like 4-5 hrs straight, with a couple of short breaks. :)))

Good twin
31st August 2009, 11:47 AM
Celia is married to Bill Petro. She had another husband in between Tom and Bill. He died too. His name was Gary. She met him through a Scientology dating service.

Wisened One
1st September 2009, 05:25 PM
Yes, and btw, Celia's husband or ex, now - Tom Madigan (also my auditor) - passed away a number of yrs ago. She's remarried, again: Third time's a charm. I know the guy but can't remember the name. He's in the Miami mag leak pic kneeling next to Celia -FLASH ANSWER! "SNAP!" C'mon u frickin lazy out work File Clerk: Scott Fitzgerald! - Thank you for telling me that. It's Scott Fitzgerald. LOL

And Helmuth remarried, as well. I forget his wife's name but she used to do services at the MM Org and then I met up with her at the Orlando Org and I went to visit him once. Had a picnic with him & his wife & kids.

Btw, personally, you're the 1st person who's had anything nice to say about Gary. :) But hey, I don't want to be guilty of alloying anyone's affinity. I guess we're all good people deep down. I never had the proper equipment to dig THAT deep with Gary. He had his moments, let's just say. In my better moments, I love everyone; including assholes. ROFL That was a french word "ahsoles" is pronounced. It means "lonely people" :oX

And I go way back with all of them; since 1978. Leona used to be a letter reg in what was called "the annex" which was the bldg next door, with Denise Sieger. She was nice (both Leona & Denise) Celia is nice, too but she's "burnt out" and has been in the cult ALL her life. Her mother who died in the very early 80s was LRH's secretary at one time & ran estates. Her dad was an auditor at the Miami Org. I forget who passed away first. Janet was her name.

David DeMoss is a sweet guy. Oh and you don't mention it here but you're right, Bob Addis is never anywhere to be found. Maybe he blew! ;-)

Btw, I spoke on the phone with Telepathetic for like 4-5 hrs straight, with a couple of short breaks. :)))

Hey again, glad you are posting with us more! :yes:

Gary: No, I did NOT have affinity for the guy! Nor his wife, particularly. Like I said: Gary's the one that didn't give a shit that I was seizing with cold (and no, I'm actually not exaggerating). He just kept right on with his intense, little black brainwashing..making sure another bites the dust for having routed out of Staff....:eyeroll:). I remember them as being quite arrogant of a couple, really. They refused to let 'wogs' into their house when they had their roofing company! :eyeroll:

Anyways:

Celia's mom, I believe, died in the early 90's, while still working in Treas with Kitty and Celia.

I remember how hard it was for Celia (and KB) to get over her death.

Anyway: Helmuth Grimm divorced Leona Grimm while we were there and then married Susan Mastandrea. Helmuth then routed off Staff when we were still there. They had two kids toegether. Last I heard, he was working for NASA or something like that...on the Shuttle. But now they are divorced and Helmuth is re-married to a non-scn. I think he's still a scn tho, not sure. Susan I think is still a scn, too, don't know. As far as I know, she didn't re-marry.

So is Kitty and Randy still there? (Really got along with Randy, NICE GUY!).

And really? Bob Addis is no longer there? I saw his pictures in the recent newsletters tho! Maybe he's just not on Staff anymore. Is he still married?

Please...MOAR updates, anyone! :drama:

Papabear
9th December 2009, 04:43 AM
I saw Kitty and Randy in CW. They have an autistic child but were shooting to get back in the SO. This was somewhere around 04-05.

I laid shingles with Gary. Wanted to push him off the roof a couple of times...

Helmuth was great. He worked on my car a couple of times and last I talked to him he was working on a car engine that was fueled in water. A past life design he said. That was many moons ago.

I remember the MM org having huge parties when I was 10 or 11 years old. Hundreds of people dancing and getting drunk ( I think). Then they got small quick...I was too young to know why but the dwarf was in full action from what I understand.

My dad ran a Dianetics group a few blocks from MM org and got tons of people in. Got a lot of training paid for that way.

Used to work with Bill Petro as a tear down mechanic around '95-'96. Really nice guy, was pissed off at the IRS agreement but I guess he got over it. I miss him. I took over his ex-wife Martha's position when she worked for Peter Letterese.

Wow...

Always liked David Demoss too. Mary was ok until she really went fanatic. I hope she's sorting herself out now.

Thanks for the memories!

Wisened One
9th December 2009, 04:46 AM
Thanks for the updates on some of the people, Chris! :yes:

Wow..wonder if Kitty and Randy went back into the SO? Randy was THE nicest guy, had many long conversatons with him :)

Re: the parties. Yep, we had some fun parties when I was there in the 90's, too. A few beer and pizza nights, (for being upstat) they were interesting, lol! They were too few, tho.

skollie
9th December 2009, 05:34 AM
Did Mary DeMoss blow? There were rumors swirling a few months ago, but nothing confirmed.


I saw Kitty and Randy in CW. They have an autistic child but were shooting to get back in the SO. This was somewhere around 04-05.

I laid shingles with Gary. Wanted to push him off the roof a couple of times...

Helmuth was great. He worked on my car a couple of times and last I talked to him he was working on a car engine that was fueled in water. A past life design he said. That was many moons ago.

I remember the MM org having huge parties when I was 10 or 11 years old. Hundreds of people dancing and getting drunk ( I think). Then they got small quick...I was too young to know why but the dwarf was in full action from what I understand.

My dad ran a Dianetics group a few blocks from MM org and got tons of people in. Got a lot of training paid for that way.

Used to work with Bill Petro as a tear down mechanic around '95-'96. Really nice guy, was pissed off at the IRS agreement but I guess he got over it. I miss him. I took over his ex-wife Martha's position when she worked for Peter Letterese.

Wow...

Always liked David Demoss too. Mary was ok until she really went fanatic. I hope she's sorting herself out now.

Thanks for the memories!

Wisened One
11th December 2009, 05:49 PM
I saw Kitty and Randy in CW. They have an autistic child but were shooting to get back in the SO. This was somewhere around 04-05.

I really enjoyed our many conversations with Randy. Really great and sweet guy! I remember it being kinda weird, cuz he was SO and most SO were sooo stiff, militaristic, stilting, cold in their conversations with you. Randy I don't think EVER was to any of us, he was soft, caring, sincere, friendly guy who knew his stuff on certain subjects! (Natural Health, etc.). Wonder how they're gonna rejoin the SO with a child, especially a special-needs one? :unsure:




I laid shingles with Gary. Wanted to push him off the roof a couple of times...

LOL! HE was the one that held me in a freezing room and lectured at me (and hubby, separately). Yep, hubby worked roofing with him, too. Until Gary was forced to fire all Staff working for him due to some policy about having Staff working for your company....Dean was making good money with him, too! We ate pretty good meals during those times..




Helmuth was great. He worked on my car a couple of times and last I talked to him he was working on a car engine that was fueled in water. A past life design he said. That was many moons ago.

Helmuth was also a really sweet (and handsome!) guy. He was also an excellent Auditor! Yeah, he had some cool ideas and I remember him working on that engine idea. Don't know if he's still doing that or not. I'm pretty sure he's now remarried to a non-scn.




I remember the MM org having huge parties when I was 10 or 11 years old. Hundreds of people dancing and getting drunk ( I think). Then they got small quick...I was too young to know why but the dwarf was in full action from what I understand.

My dad ran a Dianetics group a few blocks from MM org and got tons of people in. Got a lot of training paid for that way.

Used to work with Bill Petro as a tear down mechanic around '95-'96. Really nice guy, was pissed off at the IRS agreement but I guess he got over it. I miss him. I took over his ex-wife Martha's position when she worked for Peter Letterese.

Wow...

Always liked David Demoss too. Mary was ok until she really went fanatic. I hope she's sorting herself out now.

Thanks for the memories!

Bill Petro! He was the guy who worked in the CF and was an OT VIII, lol. He used to go on rants, lemme tell ya, lol. Nice guy.

I hope Mary's safe and happy wherever she is, too.

Wisened One
11th December 2009, 05:50 PM
Did Mary DeMoss blow? There were rumors swirling a few months ago, but nothing confirmed.

I really don't know...there's rumors about it, tho. I think someone mentioned it here or on Youtube or somewhere...:shrug:

PaulLuzerne
28th March 2011, 06:19 PM
I was at Miami org when it was situated close to the water - was that Brickell Ave? I've recognized many names in this thread but I still have seen no mention of Janet and Bob Guilford - they were both big time in the guardian office with Fred Ulan. I would love to connect with Leah Abady but I've seen no information on her.

Wisened One
28th March 2011, 07:27 PM
Hi Paul:

You were involved at an earlier time, than me. I was involved after it moved to Giralda Ave. (I was there in early to mid-90's).

I recognize the name Fred Ulan, and may have even seen him around there as an FSM at the time, no info on him since, though.

Leah Abady, I think, is STILL there as a Reg.

Good twin
28th March 2011, 07:54 PM
I was at Miami org when it was situated close to the water - was that Brickell Ave? I've recognized many names in this thread but I still have seen no mention of Janet and Bob Guilford - they were both big time in the guardian office with Fred Ulan. I would love to connect with Leah Abady but I've seen no information on her.

Yes I remeber the Org from when it was on Brickell. "Head south on I-95 and exit when you smell the bread".

Janet and Bob were in Miami when the Org moved to Giralda and ran the estates Div which was huge. Really good people as I recall.

GT

MissJones
19th April 2011, 02:57 AM
Gary did the same thing to me, Michelle. Held me in a room for 2 hours until I "cognited" that I was a D.B. The execs called it "sicking Spike"...I was in the exec office one day and Betsy-the DDED- was all smiles & asked Tropf if he wanted her to "Sic Spike on him"....this meant they were unleashing Bottoroff on some poor, unsuspecting soul. I had stumbled into the room before she saw me as I wasn't high enough on the org bd to know about Spike. Soon after that they turned him loose on me.....and that's when I decided to leave.

AnonKat
19th April 2011, 03:00 AM
Gary did the same thing to me, Michelle. Held me in a room for 2 hours until I "cognited" that I was a D.B. The execs called it "sicking Spike"...I was in the exec office one day and Betsy-the DDED- was all smiles & asked Tropf if he wanted her to "Sic Spike on him"....this meant they were unleashing Bottoroff on some poor, unsuspecting soul. I had stumbled into the room before she saw me as I wasn't high enough on the org bd to know about Spike. Soon after that they turned him loose on me.....and that's when I decided to leave.

:hug

MissJones
19th April 2011, 03:40 AM
I was on staff about the same time as you (wisened one)...Celia's Mom was a staff auditor named Margaret Reynolds..Janet LRHC/ Estates Sec was Janet Guilford..no relation to the Reynolds clan....I wasn't there when Margaret died...but can imagine what it did to poor Celia.I noticed on facebook that her sis, Kathy Bottorff, lists her present home as Phoenix. THAT knocked me over. I never thought she'd leave the Org. Another awful blow for Celia. Is the post about Celia having 4 husbands true???? She's been Lucky in Love ! (except for the dead ones)

Wisened One
19th April 2011, 04:24 AM
Well Hi and :welcome2: to ESMB, MissJones! :) Soooo HAPPY to finally hear from some more Miami people, here! :yes:

And thank you for reading my story and confirming how Gary was and for some strange reason, it gave me some relief to hear he didn't only treat me that way! GLAD YOU LEFT, as well! I'd love to hear more from you and share stories with you :)

I got on Staff just a few months before she died. And yes, it did devastate Celia and KB. I remember. :sad:

And WOW...KB is OFF STAFF, now?! Probably means Gary is too, then? Huh! Wonder how many are left there? I know Celia is STILL THERE and still sweet as ever. Yep, she has had at least 3 or 4 husbands, and I think she's had to deal with some tough times when they died on her, like that. I really like Tom Madigan. :sadsigh:

So bet you and I know many of the same people. Tropf was not the ED when I was there, Mark and I think Celia were 'acting ED's' or something until :violent:Cat Fox:violent: came back from OEC/FEBC Training to take over as tyrannical ED until she got busted (THAT'S how bad she was!)

Anyways: Enough about me. When did you leave? :) :drama:

asteroid
25th June 2011, 07:23 PM
It seems as though most of you were in the Miami Org in the 90s? I was there (sort of) for six months in 1978-79, when I worked for Op Z and was "temporarily" assigned to help out. Among the people I remember fondly: John Gaffney, Leslie Gaffney, Debi Cameron (nee Debi Johnson). I'm blanking on the name of the guy from the Miami Org Div 6 but he was a wonderful, funny person; he later spent about 20 minutes as CS 6 at Flag after Kim Holt left.

Anyone know the whereabouts of these folks?

MissJones
25th June 2011, 09:09 PM
[
Anyone know the whereabouts of these folks?[/QUOTE]

I don't know about the Gafneys or D. Cameron...but the Div 6 guy may have been Mike Fine. He is still on staff at Flag. He was slender, short, black hair & always smiling & energetic. If not him, I could give a better guess if you could describe him a bit more...also, do you remember his post? :)

Wisened One
25th June 2011, 10:44 PM
Hi and Welcome to ESMB, Asteroid! :)

I can't help you on the people you mention, since my time was in the early till mid 90's.

But glad to see you here, YAY another Miami person!! :clap:

Clarence Rockaway
26th June 2011, 04:13 AM
Hi all:

Haven't visited here for a long time, glad to be back!:)

Looking for any Miami Org ex-public/Staff?

WO
I was there in 1977 or therabouts. A lovely reg named Molly. But the CO, a guy named Sexsmith, had the personality of a locked bathroom door at a beer party.

Wisened One
28th June 2011, 07:55 PM
I was there in 1977 or therabouts. A lovely reg named Molly. But the CO, a guy named Sexsmith, had the personality of a locked bathroom door at a beer party.

ANOTHER one, Hi Clarence, nice to meet you :) Don't think I met any of the people you mentioned. But the way you describe Sexsmtih's personality...:lol: Never heard THAT one, before :P

MissJones
28th June 2011, 10:48 PM
I was there in 1977 or therabouts. A lovely reg named Molly. But the CO, a guy named Sexsmith, had the personality of a locked bathroom door at a beer party.

HAHAHA! What a perfect description of our illustrious leader! If you stayed there till we moved to Giralda Ave, you'd have seen him goose-stepping about the org with his shiny black kung-fu stick! There are photos of him all over the internet. His name is John Sexsmith & he is a bigwig for nuskin.

TR'SIN
10th July 2011, 05:01 PM
I could not resist checking in on this thread. My time there was from 1978 until I gave up pretending mid the '90's. Have had some nice talks with Xenutrawls, telepathetic, Papa Bear, Good Twin and Wisened One from those days. And glad to know the before and after guys who have come to this forum.

I had about 15 different post titles and worked all over the Org Board, so many names of public and staff and their stories were part of my daily routine. What's happened to them is most curious to me. Many people I've talked to never thought that I would leave the Org. They have told me that until they heard I was Declared an SP - they had no idea I had left. So hearing about others who got out is good news to me.

But, like most people no one has seen my declare except HCO MM - but that's good enough for me. I quite like the idea that they don't want me there. :eyeroll:

I'd love to hear from anyone who was there, feel free to PM me and we can share news.

For the thread: I had a good/bad expierence with Gary Botoroff. He was super smart and didn't fit well in social situations so he relied on the strict "rule of law". I worked with him in and out of the Org (yes I got up on the damn roofs). He didn't push people around who "in his eyes" he thought understood him. Sometimes that meant laughing at his dry humor or agreeing with his literal take on life. He never got the joy of being casual or having fun.

I too have big love for Helmuth, Fred, Tom Madigan from the 80's-90's and James K, Don Pfendler (not mentioned) Maria McCord (not mentioned) Wayne Eisenman (mentioned once) and Sharon Madigan (Tom's 1st wife) from the 70's - 80's.

Some warriors I slugged it out with on the all nighters etc. Debbie Morris(Anderson), Shaun Carroll, Mark Witt, Barbie Brown(Perez-etc.), John Gludovatz, Willie & Dianna, Ray Jourdain, Frank Thompson (RIP), Laz Mesa and of course Gui. There are a whole slew of others of course. Some in and some out but not as like-minded perhaps. There are those who are still on staff who I won't mention but care for as people and many who vilify me in any mention of my name these 16 years later.

It was a 17 year ordeal and I reflect from time to time on the whole expierence. But, its not much of what I put my attention on these days.

Love and good health to any and all of you who were there, we made it out.:clap:

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 11:09 AM
Hi I was sr c/s there in the late 70s. :)

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 11:11 AM
I could not resist checking in on this thread. My time there was from 1978 until I gave up pretending mid the '90's. Have had some nice talks with Xenutrawls, telepathetic, Papa Bear, Good Twin and Wisened One from those days. And glad to know the before and after guys who have come to this forum.

I had about 15 different post titles and worked all over the Org Board, so many names of public and staff and their stories were part of my daily routine. What's happened to them is most curious to me. Many people I've talked to never thought that I would leave the Org. They have told me that until they heard I was Declared an SP - they had no idea I had left. So hearing about others who got out is good news to me.

But, like most people no one has seen my declare except HCO MM - but that's good enough for me. I quite like the idea that they don't want me there. :eyeroll:

I'd love to hear from anyone who was there, feel free to PM me and we can share news.

For the thread: I had a good/bad expierence with Gary Botoroff. He was super smart and didn't fit well in social situations so he relied on the strict "rule of law". I worked with him in and out of the Org (yes I got up on the damn roofs). He didn't push people around who "in his eyes" he thought understood him. Sometimes that meant laughing at his dry humor or agreeing with his literal take on life. He never got the joy of being casual or having fun.

I too have big love for Helmuth, Fred, Tom Madigan from the 80's-90's and James K, Don Pfendler (not mentioned) Maria McCord (not mentioned) Wayne Eisenman (mentioned once) and Sharon Madigan (Tom's 1st wife) from the 70's - 80's.

Some warriors I slugged it out with on the all nighters etc. Debbie Morris(Anderson), Shaun Carroll, Mark Witt, Barbie Brown(Perez-etc.), John Gludovatz, Willie & Dianna, Ray Jourdain, Frank Thompson (RIP), Laz Mesa and of course Gui. There are a whole slew of others of course. Some in and some out but not as like-minded perhaps. There are those who are still on staff who I won't mention but care for as people and many who vilify me in any mention of my name these 16 years later.

It was a 17 year ordeal and I reflect from time to time on the whole expierence. But, its not much of what I put my attention on these days.

Love and good health to any and all of you who were there, we made it out.:clap:

i never 'got' botoroff

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 11:13 AM
I was there in 1977 or therabouts. A lovely reg named Molly. But the CO, a guy named Sexsmith, had the personality of a locked bathroom door at a beer party.
Sexsmith was very different....always looking over his shoulder as if some alien were prompting what he had to say.

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 11:16 AM
James Kirtley, who I also found out died a few short yrs ago, had wavy/curly dark hair and spoke Spanish fluently since -as he always said- went to college and had mostly Cuban friends. He started out in the Public courseroom & then became one of three Ethics Officers at the time with John Bravo & Rick, forget his last name. James & John were over 6 fr tall & Rick towered over them at 6'3"-6'4" James's wife worked as either ED or a top exec at the Delphi Acad in CW and James himself became VERY successful working with his long time friend, and also ex-MM staff member, Mike Kaplan who brought James into the company, I believe HE founded. Kaplan & fmly can also be found on the "contributors" list of the other message I sent you.

As for John Bravo, I met him at the "Carreta" restaurant on Bird Rd & 87th ave. and he was trying to get me to join what I considered back then a "squirrel" group he'd joined. He actually looked good but he also was always smiling and had a good sense of humor. Oh and before I forget, James Kirtley was one of the sweetest most genuine & sincere straightforward kind of person I've ever met. It's too bad he passed away. He was perhaps a yr or two older than me, maybe even younger but definitely around MY age and I'm not quite ready to "drop my body" just yet. lol

After James, I liked Fred best but obviously there were -as you yourself know- many VERY GOOD people in Miami at around the same time. Dave Tropf, the ED when I joined was the Qual Sec for many yrs before becoming ED and taking MM Org to new heights. We were back then St Hill size, before there was even a Birthday game. The ED before him was John Sexmith, whose name also appears on the *new mag leak*

I didn't know Judi Blum & fmly were in CW. Her pic can be seen in the MM mag leak & last I know she was still MM staff or at least FSM. Dave & Nancy Caulkins were in CW but Nancy had finished her contract with Delphi as her kids had finished school & she was no longer working for them when I met them at Wayne Eisenman's home. Also there as I said were Fred & Kate Fig., Shaun & Vicki Carrol (Remember Fred was also married to Vicki, right? That boy got around:) Scott (there were two Scotts I rem) but the one who was acad admin was there too. He was studying to become a lawyer. The other Scott had long blond hair, kinda wavy and hung around with Alexis Rodriguez, don't know if you know him.

Then the last time I went to Flag and Tampa org, I met Denise, who worked with Leona as letter reges way back. Denise was married to Ray who was one time the MM Org intern sup. I forget their last name. I also met Darrell Kirkland -remember him and his brother Duane or Dwayne?, who was married to (but divorced) Martha Kirkland [She was also in CW and kept the name] How about commercial realtor Jorge Correa & his wife, Maria? They lived in Coral Gables near the org but they divorced and Jorge re-married a Venezuelan girl & moved also to CW. I know he got pretty high on the Bridge, doing all 3 Ls before I lost touch with them. Jorge & Maria are of Cuban heritage. How about George Bravo, who was LOC & KTL sup? And David & Mary DeMoss? I met up with David in CW also, or Tampa (same diff) CW & Tampa Org are 15-20 mins apart driving dist. I also saw Mary at Delphi but I never liked her much, to be honest. Dave I liked. They were already divorced & I hear Mary remarried and, of course, she's now blown too. She's disappeared. Maybe Mark Bunker is hiding her out >:) I know he seemed to like her from what things he wrote about her.

Let's see who else? Kat & Gary Bottorf? I didn't like either as well. Gary was my senior at one time in HCO & well, not many liked him in those days. He was HCO Cope Officer. :-) What of Celia Alvarez, then Madigan? She was married to two auditors, George Alvarez (who got SP declared - I just ran across his name on the latest SP list from 1992) and Tom Madigan (who died about 10 yrs ago) I think she's remarried but she was Treas Sec for the longest, then became ESTO or HES, I'm not sure. She's STILL MM staff as are Leah & Leona. And Mark & Lisa Witt? Both good people. Lisa was also my auditor once & she had a very natural affinity, in or out of an auditing session.

Okay, I'll stop here. I enjopy writing, as you can probably tell, plus I, too, have been meaning to find other Miami Org people on this forum.

If you have any specific questions, ask away. Thanks for reading.

Until the next one. :-)

fred was a great human being. Lisa Witt was the Pitts. Pure petty jealous and way not good enough for Fred.

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 11:21 AM
Well Hi and :welcome2: to ESMB, MissJones! :) Soooo HAPPY to finally hear from some more Miami people, here! :yes:

And thank you for reading my story and confirming how Gary was and for some strange reason, it gave me some relief to hear he didn't only treat me that way! GLAD YOU LEFT, as well! I'd love to hear more from you and share stories with you :)

I got on Staff just a few months before she died. And yes, it did devastate Celia and KB. I remember. :sad:

And WOW...KB is OFF STAFF, now?! Probably means Gary is too, then? Huh! Wonder how many are left there? I know Celia is STILL THERE and still sweet as ever. Yep, she has had at least 3 or 4 husbands, and I think she's had to deal with some tough times when they died on her, like that. I really like Tom Madigan. :sadsigh:

So bet you and I know many of the same people. Tropf was not the ED when I was there, Mark and I think Celia were 'acting ED's' or something until :violent:Cat Fox:violent: came back from OEC/FEBC Training to take over as tyrannical ED until she got busted (THAT'S how bad she was!)

Anyways: Enough about me. When did you leave? :) :drama:

i really liked Rose and Dave Tropf

Maria Cuervo
26th February 2015, 05:22 PM
I could not resist checking in on this thread. My time there was from 1978 until I gave up pretending mid the '90's. Have had some nice talks with Xenutrawls, telepathetic, Papa Bear, Good Twin and Wisened One from those days. And glad to know the before and after guys who have come to this forum.

I had about 15 different post titles and worked all over the Org Board, so many names of public and staff and their stories were part of my daily routine. What's happened to them is most curious to me. Many people I've talked to never thought that I would leave the Org. They have told me that until they heard I was Declared an SP - they had no idea I had left. So hearing about others who got out is good news to me.

But, like most people no one has seen my declare except HCO MM - but that's good enough for me. I quite like the idea that they don't want me there. :eyeroll:

I'd love to hear from anyone who was there, feel free to PM me and we can share news.

For the thread: I had a good/bad expierence with Gary Botoroff. He was super smart and didn't fit well in social situations so he relied on the strict "rule of law". I worked with him in and out of the Org (yes I got up on the damn roofs). He didn't push people around who "in his eyes" he thought understood him. Sometimes that meant laughing at his dry humor or agreeing with his literal take on life. He never got the joy of being casual or having fun.

I too have big love for Helmuth, Fred, Tom Madigan from the 80's-90's and James K, Don Pfendler (not mentioned) Maria McCord (not mentioned) Wayne Eisenman (mentioned once) and Sharon Madigan (Tom's 1st wife) from the 70's - 80's.

Some warriors I slugged it out with on the all nighters etc. Debbie Morris(Anderson), Shaun Carroll, Mark Witt, Barbie Brown(Perez-etc.), John Gludovatz, Willie & Dianna, Ray Jourdain, Frank Thompson (RIP), Laz Mesa and of course Gui. There are a whole slew of others of course. Some in and some out but not as like-minded perhaps. There are those who are still on staff who I won't mention but care for as people and many who vilify me in any mention of my name these 16 years later.

It was a 17 year ordeal and I reflect from time to time on the whole expierence. But, its not much of what I put my attention on these days.

Love and good health to any and all of you who were there, we made it out.:clap:

Hi, this is Maria again, mentioned above. :) Sorry for overposting. Rather than repeat things, here is a link to where i have been posting starting on page 5. I didn't realize these were separate threads. I just found this site in the last day or two and still not completely sure where I am going.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?15880-1974-82-Miami-Org-Brickell-Ave-early-Giralda-Ave-OP-Z-anyone/page5

Good twin
26th February 2015, 06:27 PM
Welcome Maria.

Patti Thompson, here. I didn't spend much time at MM until you were gone, but I remember you.
ESMB is more fun than the cult of Scientology.

WildKat
26th February 2015, 06:39 PM
I am curious about a bunch of people that ended up in Clearwater that came from Miami either the org or nearby mission. (Coral Gables?) A number of them ended up at singer consultants. Where are they now?

One was Pat Hilliard .. Later married Tony Fantilli. Also James Kirtley...he got ALS or something like that and suicided. I think that was after or during OT V or VII? Also Duane or Darrell Kirkland and Marta. Didn't Kobrins come out of Miami also? And I think David Singer himself and also Jerry Dyas also came from Miami originally? Then there was Mike Kaplan and others as well.

As I recall, there was quite a crew of Miami people who filtered thru Singer's group.

Maybe I should start a Clearwater people from the 80's thread? Lol

Maria Cuervo
27th February 2015, 08:07 PM
Hi all:

Haven't visited here for a long time, glad to be back!:)

Looking for any Miami Org ex-public/Staff?

WO

What was your post. Since I have outed myself with my name (what it was then) just wondered if I know you?

Maria Cuervo
27th February 2015, 08:08 PM
Welcome Maria.

Patti Thompson, here. I didn't spend much time at MM until you were gone, but I remember you.
ESMB is more fun than the cult of Scientology.


WAY more fun! I remember your name but can't put a face to it yet. Glad to re make your acquaintance.

Leland
27th February 2015, 08:32 PM
Mer, I can't remember any names....but the Thompson name above jogged some memories.

Perhaps you can fill in a few blanks.

There was a Company out of Miami, called "Studio of Sculpture," that was involved with refinishing mannequins for the clothing store display industry.

(most modern mannequins are made out of fiberglass...and can be repaired...or updated makeup can be airbrushed on the face...or updated wig....Fingers and hands are the first to break, and those can be replaced....) ( a top quality mannequin can be expensive....)

Quite a few cult members worked for this company. As far as I know, it was not owned by a Cult member.....but the son of the owner....was a Cult member...and ran the company....and I believe was an OT 5 at the time. (around 1979.)

I had the impression that the son was "siphoning off" money from the company to pay for Cult services....... but don't know if this was true.

Can you tell me anything about it....?

Maria Cuervo
27th February 2015, 11:54 PM
Mer, I can't remember any names....but the Thompson name above jogged some memories.

Perhaps you can fill in a few blanks.

There was a Company out of Miami, called "Studio of Sculpture," that was involved with refinishing mannequins for the clothing store display industry.

(most modern mannequins are made out of fiberglass...and can be repaired...or updated makeup can be airbrushed on the face...or updated wig....Fingers and hands are the first to break, and those can be replaced....) ( a top quality mannequin can be expensive....)

Quite a few cult members worked for this company. As far as I know, it was not owned by a Cult member.....but the son of the owner....was a Cult member...and ran the company....and I believe was an OT 5 at the time. (around 1979.)

I had the impression that the son was "siphoning off" money from the company to pay for Cult services....... but don't know if this was true.

Can you tell me anything about it....?

I remember that company existed although I never worked for them or knew the details. So I can't be much help.

Not exactly on topic of your question but there were three companies that hired a number of Scientologists. There was a food catering company. I worked for them once on a New Year's Eve. There was a jewelry company, owned by a woman named Helga whose jewelry was made of sea shells. I modeled for her and still have many of the slides. It was fun and the pictures were used on the large signs at Helga's booth at some big NY jewelry show. The year was 1979? (I'd have to check the slides and don't feel like it right this second.) The photographer was from Vogue and they tried to recruit me to move to NY. I guess she showed the pictures to editors at the magazine. I was not tall enough for runway, she told me, but I could do all the rest. I never did go to NY since I was a true believer. LOL. I had just come back from one of my trips to Venezuela where I had helped set up the org there along with another person. The third company was the mannequins. I have a weird thought that the mannequin company and Helga were connected somehow. Now I am not sure how or if. Maybe. If you could check into the Helga angle with someone who remembers her that might help. Helga was definitely a scientologist. I don't know if she left, or if she is alive. I never really met her directly. She saw me around the tech div and thought I was photogenic and sent Vicki, her friend from Vogue, off to fetch me for a day of photo shoots. I think I was paid in jewelry. It was not my type of jewelry. I got an abalone necklace and a coral necklace that I long since gave away or lost. Cheaper than hiring a model at the hourly rate!

Edit: there was also Singers but I draw a blank when trying to remember what they were about. A lot of Div 6 folks went to work there so I am sure they were selling something....

Maria Cuervo
27th February 2015, 11:58 PM
Mer, I can't remember any names....but the Thompson name above jogged some memories.

Perhaps you can fill in a few blanks.

There was a Company out of Miami, called "Studio of Sculpture," that was involved with refinishing mannequins for the clothing store display industry.

(most modern mannequins are made out of fiberglass...and can be repaired...or updated makeup can be airbrushed on the face...or updated wig....Fingers and hands are the first to break, and those can be replaced....) ( a top quality mannequin can be expensive....)

Quite a few cult members worked for this company. As far as I know, it was not owned by a Cult member.....but the son of the owner....was a Cult member...and ran the company....and I believe was an OT 5 at the time. (around 1979.)

I had the impression that the son was "siphoning off" money from the company to pay for Cult services....... but don't know if this was true.

Can you tell me anything about it....?

Leland, you were there in Miami...and obviously knew Felix too. Try to help me remember you. Did we ever meet?

Leland
28th February 2015, 12:32 AM
Leland, you were there in Miami...and obviously knew Felix too. Try to help me remember you. Did we ever meet?

Thanks for the above replies. I now recall hearing about that sea shell jewelry company...but don't know anything about it.

WOW....NYC model. I know what you mean about passing up some great opportunities that came along in life....due to being a "true believer...." some I regret.

Well....I could post a pic of myself, I suppose.

I had actually been living in Palo Alto...then San Fran....and briefly on lines at the San Fran Org....and got regged for the SO. I signed the contract....and came across country to Miami....with the idea of then going to Flag....to activate and go into the Sea Org.

Once I got to Miami.....(with one dime in my pocket) I got a letter from a woman at the Stevens Creek Mission....(who had been my recruiter) that I "was not qualified" to join the SO.

Whew....Wow....I really dodged a bullet there.

So, I ended up staying in Miami. I had just turned 21. It was 1976.

My father, who had basically abandoned his family many years before and moved to South America, with his new wife.....had just come back to the States from 4 years or so....first in Bolivia...and then Colombia.

So, I lucked out and had a place to stay.

Eventually I got on lines at the Miami Org.....and did some services.

I believe I did some sort of new release pertaining to the Grades....perhaps Ser Fac handling on Grade 4? Or it might have been some sort of "expanded grades"..

Then I did the CCRD....as I had gone clear many years earlier in 1972. (CCRD had not actually been released yet....but I did something related to it....)

Then I did the Hard TRs course.

I think that is all I did there.

Oh....I had "reverted" and had to do a big Ethics handling to "be allowed" to get back on lines.... :bong:

I am tall, Brown/light blond hair.....WASP....type of guy.

I could post a pic of myself....but don't have any handy for back then....

I don't recall you....at the present.....sorry. I don't remember if we met.

Perhaps from my above stuff.....you could tell me if our paths ever crossed.

I moved up North to New Jersey....around 1979.

I had been doing some sculpture even then, in Miami....and when I left....(for some reason I'm not totally remembering...) I took my best sculpture to the Miami Org....and left it with Leah Abidy. (perhaps, I thought it would be safe there???) Don't recall.

Anyway...It was a beautiful black marble fish on a carved plexiglass base. If I recall.....her nose turned up at the sight of it....(Looking back....I suppose the Fish aspect might have been construed as a Christian symbol....but it wasn't intended that way....) I don't know what happened to it. I would very much like to have it back...

Leland
28th February 2015, 12:40 AM
:) Where you said you spent most of your time on Key Biscayne....getting a tan...

I spent most of my time at South Beach....doing the same.:p

It was great to be able to swim in the Ocean, year round.

WildKat
28th February 2015, 01:32 AM
Edit: there was also Singers but I draw a blank when trying to remember what they were about. A lot of Div 6 folks went to work there so I am sure they were selling something....

There was David Singer, a chiropractor, who sold "practice management" seminars. Huge WISE company, moved up to Clearwater later. Tons of locals came in and out of those doors, quite a few who were kicked out of the S.O. and landed there.

I remember the crazy time when he was gung-ho to "get in LRH policy". OMG what a disaster that was!

Long story short, that meant hire anyone and everyone, put everyone on "units pay" and go broke! What a nightmare.

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 02:12 AM
There was David Singer, a chiropractor, who sold "practice management" seminars. Huge WISE company, moved up to Clearwater later. Tons of locals came in and out of those doors, quite a few who were kicked out of the S.O. and landed there.

I remember the crazy time when he was gung-ho to "get in LRH policy". OMG what a disaster that was!

Long story short, that meant hire anyone and everyone, put everyone on "units pay" and go broke! What a nightmare.

Right! I remember now. That was a chiropractor thing. I had no idea about the rest. Crazy.

Good twin
28th February 2015, 04:16 PM
Helga Wagner. Lives in Palm Beach, completed OT 8 and still designs and sells Jewelry. Very politically connected (rumored to have been intimate with the Kennedy brothers) she was commended by Heber for getting him out of Jail in Germany. Helga is married to Helmut Koller. He is an artist that used to be the photographer for the Austrian ballet (I think) painted American Indians and now does paintings and sculptures of animals.

Nice people.

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 05:52 PM
Hi Leland, I suppose you would have to go into the org to ask for it back. Gulp.

Well I could post a picture of me then too. In the albums. Why don't you friend request me and we can exchange. I think I have a picture of myself on my profile right now actually, but not of me then, it's of me now.


I don't remember you at the moment. I arrived at Miami org in 76 too but I was staff and often hidden away in the back somewhere. LOL.
:biggrin:


Thanks for the above replies. I now recall hearing about that sea shell jewelry company...but don't know anything about it.

WOW....NYC model. I know what you mean about passing up some great opportunities that came along in life....due to being a "true believer...." some I regret.

Well....I could post a pic of myself, I suppose.

I had actually been living in Palo Alto...then San Fran....and briefly on lines at the San Fran Org....and got regged for the SO. I signed the contract....and came across country to Miami....with the idea of then going to Flag....to activate and go into the Sea Org.

Once I got to Miami.....(with one dime in my pocket) I got a letter from a woman at the Stevens Creek Mission....(who had been my recruiter) that I "was not qualified" to join the SO.

Whew....Wow....I really dodged a bullet there.

So, I ended up staying in Miami. I had just turned 21. It was 1976.

My father, who had basically abandoned his family many years before and moved to South America, with his new wife.....had just come back to the States from 4 years or so....first in Bolivia...and then Colombia.

So, I lucked out and had a place to stay.

Eventually I got on lines at the Miami Org.....and did some services.

I believe I did some sort of new release pertaining to the Grades....perhaps Ser Fac handling on Grade 4? Or it might have been some sort of "expanded grades"..

Then I did the CCRD....as I had gone clear many years earlier in 1972. (CCRD had not actually been released yet....but I did something related to it....)

Then I did the Hard TRs course.

I think that is all I did there.

Oh....I had "reverted" and had to do a big Ethics handling to "be allowed" to get back on lines.... :bong:

I am tall, Brown/light blond hair.....WASP....type of guy.

I could post a pic of myself....but don't have any handy for back then....

I don't recall you....at the present.....sorry. I don't remember if we met.

Perhaps from my above stuff.....you could tell me if our paths ever crossed.

I moved up North to New Jersey....around 1979.

I had been doing some sculpture even then, in Miami....and when I left....(for some reason I'm not totally remembering...) I took my best sculpture to the Miami Org....and left it with Leah Abidy. (perhaps, I thought it would be safe there???) Don't recall.

Anyway...It was a beautiful black marble fish on a carved plexiglass base. If I recall.....her nose turned up at the sight of it....(Looking back....I suppose the Fish aspect might have been construed as a Christian symbol....but it wasn't intended that way....) I don't know what happened to it. I would very much like to have it back...

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 06:03 PM
:) Where you said you spent most of your time on Key Biscayne....getting a tan...

I spent most of my time at South Beach....doing the same.:p

It was great to be able to swim in the Ocean, year round.

Actually I was on South Beach too. When I wasn't at KB. KB was closer to where my parent's lived so on weekdays it was KB and on weekends it was SB.

Once I got into Scientology I didn't get to go to the beach much.....only sometimes....

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 06:05 PM
Helga Wagner. Lives in Palm Beach, completed OT 8 and still designs and sells Jewelry. Very politically connected (rumored to have been intimate with the Kennedy brothers) she was commended by Heber for getting him out of Jail in Germany. Helga is married to Helmut Koller. He is an artist that used to be the photographer for the Austrian ballet (I think) painted American Indians and now does paintings and sculptures of animals.

Nice people.

So is she still in Scientology?

I can see how for those who are not actively being oppressed and aren't staff it could seem like an option to just sit it out. But then again, the wealthier celebrity scientologists are just squeezed in different ways that probably hurt just as bad.....

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 06:15 PM
I wonder if I should just use an old pic of me for the avatar. But maybe not. could seem too narcissist. Maybe my art work would be better. Some painting...I tried two others but they were too small to see.

eldritch cuckoo
28th February 2015, 07:18 PM
I wonder if I should just use an old pic of me for the avatar. But maybe not. could seem too narcissist. Maybe my art work would be better. Some painting...I tried two others but they were too small to see.

Why not? I think it's a fun idea. Some people here have decades old photos of them as avatars. Karen#1, for example, or Paul ("Dulloldfart"), who recently has even made a little GIF slide show. (I remember a few more "60s"/"70s" photos but not the nicknames behind them.) From hairstyle or beards or the colors (from aged film) it often is obvious anyways that the photo is old. I doubt anybody would think you would use a cool "68s" photo out of vanity, and if so, whocares. Not all faces age gracefully. (I can already tell that mine won't and with slightly over 30 I'm already beginning to get that ugly wrinkle between mouth and nose, so much to that. Fuck this, really. With 24, sometimes I still got asked whether I'm over 18 when buying wine. And now I look exactly as old as I am - though not as old as I feel. :p ) Point is: I bet the old photos sometimes help people here to make contact with old friends from their time in Scientology. I suppose that's why they're doing it. Or for the lulz of it. :hmm:
At the same time, it wouldn't necessarily mean that one is reconizable for their current friends and boss on such a photo. Not referring to OSA as a problem here, but as things are, generally not everybody needs to know what one does online (and at which time of day, LOL).

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 07:21 PM
Why not? I think it's a fun idea. Some people here have decades old photos of them as avatars. Karen#1, for example, or Paul ("Dulloldfart"), who recently has even made a little GIF slide show. (I remember a few more "60s"/"70s" photos but not the nicknames behind them.) From hairstyle or beards or the colors (from aged film) it often is obvious anyways that the photo is old. I doubt anybody would think you would use a cool "68s" photo out of vanity, and if so, whocares. Not all faces age gracefully. (I can already tell that mine won't and with slightly over 30 I'm already beginning to get that ugly wrinkle between mouth and nose, so much to that. Fuck this, really. With 24, sometimes I still got asked whether I'm over 18 when buying wine. And now I look exactly as old as I am - though not as old as I feel. :p ) Point is: I bet the old photos sometimes help people here to make contact with old friends from their time in Scientology. I suppose that's why they're doing it. Or for the lulz of it. :hmm:
At the same time, it wouldn't necessarily mean that one is reconizable for their current friends and boss on such a photo. Not referring to OSA as a problem here, but as things are, generally not everybody needs to know what one does online (and at which time of day, LOL).

Lucky for you all that black fur hides the wrinkle above your upper lip.
:biggrin:

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 07:36 PM
Leland, something weird just clicked. I could swear now that I remember seeing a sculpture on Leah Abady's desk!!!

I wish you had taken a picture of it!

Leland
28th February 2015, 08:03 PM
Yea...I don't think I did....

Your new avatar....sorry, don't recall seeing you. (wish I had....:))

As a public....you know, in and out of the Org....as fast as possible.....per a schedule.....

Dally around and .....one might become a particle that attracts undo attention...:eyeroll:

Here is a photo of me from around 2002. I let my hair grow longer, back in my Miami days........

9558

Leland
28th February 2015, 08:21 PM
Felix Lopez was about the only friend/buddy I had there...at that time. We use to go to some restaurant....late nights...a big bright place...don't recall the name. But it was in Coral Gables. I recall I even roomed in a cult group house with him for awhile.....

I liked the Medio Noche.....(Cuban sandwich....) flan....and of course, cuban coffee.....:p

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 08:28 PM
Yea...I don't think I did....

Your new avatar....sorry, don't recall seeing you. (wish I had....:))

As a public....you know, in and out of the Org....as fast as possible.....per a schedule.....

Dally around and .....one might become a particle that attracts undo attention...:eyeroll:

Here is a photo of me from around 2002. I let my hair grow longer, back in my Miami days........

9558

Thank you. You look great! Kind and generous I can see that.
Yeah, the staff had that too. Everything we did was on a schedule and we were shuttled about from one cycle or action to another or we were handling the public according to the same.

It was nice in the tech div since between pcs the auditors would lounge a bit in each other's offices and relax. Even close the doors to do it. I remember every time I did this since being slightly obsessive (probably mild aspergers without even knowing it!) I generally focused on work and did not indulge in lounging as much as some others. As I have gotten older I have refocused my focus and tried to make lounging more of the obsession. It's more productive I find.
:biggrin:

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 08:41 PM
Felix Lopez was about the only friend/buddy I had there...at that time. We use to go to some restaurant....late nights...a big bright place...don't recall the name. But it was in Coral Gables. I recall I even roomed in a cult group house with him for awhile.....

I liked the Medio Noche.....(Cuban sandwich....) flan....and of course, cuban coffee.....:p


There was a famous Cuban restaurant, not La Carreta. I forget now. Neat about the fun times huh? I feel down that my Miami org time pulled me away from my Cuban-ness. Oh well. I could have been hanging out with yous guys.

Leland
28th February 2015, 08:46 PM
What do you think about the recent lifting of some US restrictions on Cuba, Mer?

I think it is interesting that exporting Medical Doctors and technicians has become one of Cuba's major exports and income earners........if not their largest.

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 08:58 PM
Oh my. I just found this which I wrote and Arnie posted on Lermanet a few years ago!
http://www.lermanet.com/maria-cuervo/index.htm

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 11:08 PM
I thought that when I came to this and another Miami thread that there would be lots of us here. I have only reconnected with a couple of people. It could be that most just left scientology, got on with their lives, never looked back. I prefer that option to the version where most of them are still in CoS slogging away. I know a bunch of them are, even if they are not on staff. Cuz I defriended one on FB a month or so ago. I have no idea if he definitely knew I was a declared squirrel and SP but he certainly must know. I was the Sr C/S at the org and people did talk and gossip as to my 'fall' from grace. As to why he was on my FB, well, he is a cousin to a very close friend of mine in his family who is not a scientologist and never was. And in those days he was Jeff's best friend, plus also from the same hometown. I knew her because she was Jeff's ex, LOLOL, those exes who contact us and appear out of nowhere to tell us they now too are an "ex".

Maria Cuervo
28th February 2015, 11:38 PM
What do you think about the recent lifting of some US restrictions on Cuba, Mer?

I think it is interesting that exporting Medical Doctors and technicians has become one of Cuba's major exports and income earners........if not their largest.

I try not to be political because it feels pointless to me...but i am against the lifting for a weird reason. I like that Cuba is frozen in the fifties with old cars and so on. As soon as the restrictions are gone, Cuba will be flooded with money and be modernized so the tourists can see Old Cuba from the fifties. But that Cuba will disappear thanks to the modernizations.

So really just stay in the time capsule.

There is a town there named after a branch of my family and they idolize the family there. You see, my family funded the DuPonts, dumped the DuPonts, went to Cuba, helped fund the American Revolution, had sugar plantations where all slaves were freed on the day of purchase etc.

So I can go to Cuba and probably would not be allowed to stay at a hotel as long as I found my way to correct location. And now that I have written this I have lost my getaway hideout should interpol ever need to find me. LOLOL. But don't worry. There is at least one other getaway place although probably not usable for other reasons.

Leland
28th February 2015, 11:43 PM
I thought that when I came to this and another Miami thread that there would be lots of us here. I have only reconnected with a couple of people. It could be that most just left scientology, got on with their lives, never looked back. I prefer that option to the version where most of them are still in CoS slogging away. I know a bunch of them are, even if they are not on staff. Cuz I defriended one on FB a month or so ago. I have no idea if he definitely knew I was a declared squirrel and SP but he certainly must know. I was the Sr C/S at the org and people did talk and gossip as to my 'fall' from grace. As to why he was on my FB, well, he is a cousin to a very close friend of mine in his family who is not a scientologist and never was. And in those days he was Jeff's best friend, plus also from the same hometown. I knew her because she was Jeff's ex, LOLOL, those exes who contact us and appear out of nowhere to tell us they now too are an "ex".

I don't know if you looked at the dates on this thread....when it was started ...and the dates on the posts.

Some of those people might have moved on?

You can always PM those posters....they might come back and chat.

Maria Cuervo
1st March 2015, 12:18 AM
I don't know if you looked at the dates on this thread....when it was started ...and the dates on the posts.

Some of those people might have moved on?

You can always PM those posters....they might come back and chat.

:) not sure I will for now but maybe little by little a few will show up again....

Smurf
1st March 2015, 12:33 AM
So I can go to Cuba and probably would not be allowed to stay at a hotel as long as I found my way to correct location. And now that I have written this I have lost my getaway hideout should interpol ever need to find me. LOLOL. But don't worry. There is at least one other getaway place although probably not usable for other reasons.

The tool shed behind Guantanamo? :biggrin:

http://www.designsponge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/unnamed3-500x375.jpg

Maria Cuervo
1st March 2015, 02:21 AM
The tool shed behind Guantanamo? :biggrin:

http://www.designsponge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/unnamed3-500x375.jpg


:p