Epic Nose Guy, the C word and the Guardian

[asagai]

Epic Nose Guy's story has made the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/20/1

[Free to shine]

Here's the quote from above link
----------------------
Teenager faces prosecution for calling Scientology 'cult
A teenager is facing prosecution for using the word "cult" to describe the Church of Scientology.

The unnamed youth was served the summons by City of London police when he took part in a peaceful demonstration opposite the London headquarters of the controversial religion.

Officers confiscated a placard with the word "cult" on it from the youth, who is under 18, and a case file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service.

A date has not yet been set for him to appear in court.

The decision to issue the summons has angered human rights activists and support groups for the victims of cults.

The incident happened during a protest against the Church of Scientology on May 10. Demonstrators from the anti-Scientology group, Anonymous, who were outside the church's £23m headquarters near St Paul's cathedral, were banned by police from describing Scientology as a cult by police because it was "abusive and insulting".

Writing on an anti-Scientology website, the teenager facing court said: "I brought a sign to the May 10th protest that said: 'Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult.'

"'Within five minutes of arriving I was told by a member of the police that I was not allowed to use that word, and that the final decision would be made by the inspector."

A policewoman later read him section five of the Public Order Act and "strongly advised" him to remove the sign. The section prohibits signs which have representations or words which are threatening, abusive or insulting.

The teenager refused to back down, quoting a 1984 high court ruling from Mr Justice Latey, in which he described the Church of Scientology as a "cult" which was "corrupt, sinister and dangerous".

After the exchange, a policewoman handed him a court summons and removed his sign.

On the website he asks for advice on how to fight the charge: "What's the likelihood I'll need a lawyer? If I do have to get one, it'll have to come out of my pocket money."

Writing on the same website, another anonymous demonstrator said: "We also protested outside another Scientology building in Tottenham Court Road which is policed by a separate force, the Metropolitan police, who have never tried to stop us using the word cult.

"We're completely peaceful protesters expressing a perfectly valid opinion. This whole thing stinks."

Liberty director, Shami Chakrabarti, said: "This barmy prosecution makes a mockery of Britain's free speech traditions.

"After criminalising the use of the word 'cult', perhaps the next step is to ban the words 'war' and 'tax' from peaceful demonstrations?"

Ian Haworth, from the Cult Information Centre which provides advice for victims of cults and their families, said: "This is an extraordinary situation. If it wasn't so serious it would be farcical. The police's job is to protect and serve. Who is being served and who is being protected in this situation? I find it very worrying.

"Scientology is well known to my organisation, and has been of great concern to me for 22 years. I get many calls from families with loved ones involved and ex-members who are in need of one form of help."

The City of London police came under fire two years ago when it emerged that more than 20 officers, ranging from constable to chief superintendent, had accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology.

The City of London Chief Superintendent, Kevin Hurley, praised Scientology for "raising the spiritual wealth of society" during the opening
of its headquarters in 2006.

Last year a video praising Scientology emerged featuring Ken Stewart, another of the City of London's chief superintendents, although he is not a member of the group.

The group was foundeded by the science-fiction writer L Ron Hubbard in 1952 and espouses the idea that humans are descended from an exiled race of aliens called Thetans.

The church continues to attract controversy over claims that it separates members from their families and indoctrinates followers.

A spokeswoman for the force said today: "City of London police had received complaints about demonstrators using the words 'cult' and 'Scientology kills' during protests against the Church of Scientology.

"Following advice from the Crown Prosecution Service some demonstrators were warned verbally and in writing that their signs breached section five of the Public Order Act.

"One demonstrator continued to display a placard despite police warnings and was reported for an offence under section five. A file on the case will go to the CPS."

[Sharone Stainforth]

A spokeswoman for the force said today: "City of London police had received complaints about demonstrators using the words 'cult' and 'Scientology kills' during protests against the Church of Scientology.

The complaints were made by the "Cult of Scientology".

They really don't like that word,do they?

The words i don't like are the "Church of Scientology" because it isn't.

We should support Epic Nose Guy in any way we can.

[DartSmohen]

A spokeswoman for the force said today: "City of London police had received complaints about demonstrators using the words 'cult' and 'Scientology kills' during protests against the Church of Scientology.

The complaints were made by the "Cult of Scientology".

They really don't like that word,do they?

The words i don't like are the "Church of Scientology" because it isn't.

We should support Epic Nose Guy in any way we can.

I wonder if this bogus prosecution stems from the fact that at the opening of the new building, a senior City of London Police Officer was being schmoosed by the scilons. Is he a member of the cult? Is he connected to the cult? Did he, or his force receive any sort of "donation" ?

It would make sense. :whistling: :eyeroll:

[Div6]

I wonder if this bogus prosecution stems from the fact that at the opening of the new building, a senior City of London Police Officer was being schmoosed by the scilons. Is he a member of the cult? Is he connected to the cult? Did he, or his force receive any sort of "donation" ?

It would make sense. :whistling: :eyeroll:

FTA: "The City of London police came under fire two years ago when it emerged that more than 20 officers, ranging from constable to chief superintendent, had accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology."

[DartSmohen]

FTA: "The City of London police came under fire two years ago when it emerged that more than 20 officers, ranging from constable to chief superintendent, had accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology."


Well, there you go.

Maybe we can name and shame the cops.

[Sharone Stainforth]

FTA: "The City of London police came under fire two years ago when it emerged that more than 20 officers, ranging from constable to chief superintendent, had accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology."
__________________
"Someday, someone, will say this is illegal.. let's make sure that by that time we are the ones who say what is legal or not."

Sure does make sense.Infiltration anyone?

[Axiom142]

Liberty director, Shami Chakrabarti, said: "This barmy prosecution makes a mockery of Britain's free speech traditions.



Now they've got Liberty involved! :duh:

Is the CoS intent on getting the whole world against them?

If the case is dismissed, could that be taken as proof that the CoS is a cult?

I can feel a footbullet alert coming on!

[Axiom142]

How about a sign that says:

Scientology is very nice and is not
a cult ?

Hmmm, better not - might get prosecuted under the Trades Description Act!

[asagai]

It's simple really.

A sign with equal sized letters
"Scientology is a cult" - Judge Latey 1984

The Superintendent at QVS confirmed that would be ok. So long as we make it clear that we are quoting a judge, it will be allowed.

Presumably we can chant "You're a cult - a judge says you are"

The Police Superintendent will be contacted again before June 14th.

[DartSmohen]

FTA: "The City of London police came under fire two years ago when it emerged that more than 20 officers, ranging from constable to chief superintendent, had accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology."

The story hit the DAILY TELEGRAPH today.

What sources do you have for the gifts to the City of London Police.

The paper invites comment on the story. This could be a good opportunity to give the cult a good slap.

DS

[Alan]

The story hit the DAILY TELEGRAPH today.

What sources do you have for the gifts to the City of London Police.

The paper invites comment on the story. This could be a good opportunity to give the cult a good slap.

DS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/6171948.stm

Police Scientology gifts inquiry

The City of London Police is carrying out an inquiry amid claims officers accepted gifts worth thousands of pounds from the Church of Scientology.

Some received free invitations to a charity dinner, with Tom Cruise as the guest of honour, details from a Freedom of Information Act request showed.

More than 20 officers were allegedly targeted over a 15-month period.

A City of London Police spokesman said it was ensuring all members of staff were aware of its hospitality policy.

He said: "We are conducting a review to ensure that all members of staff are aware of the force policy on accepting hospitality and to assess whether clarification of amendment... is necessary".

There is more at:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-07,GGLG:en&q=City+of+London+police+Scientology

[Thrak]

That's got a nice ring to it. The Church of Scientology vs. Epic Nose Guy.
I like it

[Free to shine]

BBC News on EpicNoseGuy's court summons

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QqgojaACv5Y

[Spork]

The story hit the DAILY TELEGRAPH today.

What sources do you have for the gifts to the City of London Police.

The paper invites comment on the story. This could be a good opportunity to give the cult a good slap.

DS

Query, did this appear in the print edition of the Torygraph? I hope so (biggest UK broadsheet, circulation > 1M daily). I read the story online, excellent coverage.

[Alanzo]

Epic Nose Guy, the insightful and intrepid member of Anonymous who quoted Justice Latey to a cop and refused to take his sign down which said "Scientology is a dangerous cult" is being prosecuted under the "Public Order Act" in England.

Check out this BBC news spot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7413869.stm), and especially the interview with the legal expert who says that the activities of Scientology will need to be inspected in a court of law in order to decide whether calling Scientology a cult can be considered insulting.

HA!!!

Epic Win, Epic Nose Guy!

Way to go!!!!

[Kathy (ImOut)]

Since I'm not English, is there some law in England that doesn't allow you to "insult" another or a group? What happens if a police-person catches you calling someone a "wanker" (? sp.)? Can you get a "summons" for that? That is very insulting, as I understand it.:confused2:

[Alanzo]

Since I'm not English, is there some law in England that doesn't allow you to "insult" another or a group? What happens if a police-person catches you calling someone a "wanker" (? sp.)? Can you get a "summons" for that? That is very insulting, as I understand it.:confused2:

Not for unisexuals.

[OHTEEATE]

I don't really understand the word, I just like the way it rolls off the lips.
Wanker. as in, "you're all a bunch of Wankers, you lot there." sounds exotic and British, sort of unwashed British, Back alley, rats scurrying over garbage heaps kind of British. I am closing in on understanding this word.

[Alanzo]

I don't really understand the word, I just like the way it rolls off the lips.
Wanker. as in, "you're all a bunch of Wankers, you lot there." sounds exotic and British, sort of unwashed British, Back alley, rats scurrying over garbage heaps kind of British. I am closing in on understanding this word.

Actually, in the world of Unisexuality, it's like saying that you are an OT 7 Completion.

[asagai]

Since I'm not English, is there some law in England that doesn't allow you to "insult" another or a group? What happens if a police-person catches you calling someone a "wanker" (? sp.)? Can you get a "summons" for that? That is very insulting, as I understand it.:confused2:

This was gone over with Superindentent Bastable at the start of the demo. There is a Racial and Religious Hatred Act, but according to section 29J, the act is "not intended to limit or restrict discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule or insult or abuse of particular religions".

ENG was charged under the Public Order Act not the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.

It was pointed out to Superindentent Bastable per the above 29J that we could ridicule the CofS and we could call it a cult as per Judge Latey's definition. Superindentent Bastable said the police's solicitors (presumably the CPS although he didn't say that) had decided signs saying Scn was a "cult" were chargeable under the Public Order Act. He said we were allowed to say that Judge Latey said it was a cult. We could even say "Down with cults" so long as we weren't saying Scn was a cult. A guy got his sign ok'ed - it said "Keep Britain Cult Free"

ENG's poster said "Scientology is a dangerous cult" so he was charged under the Public order Act, despite Judge Latey describing it in the same words in the High Court.

[Alanzo]

This court case, against this 15 year old boy, could decide specifically whether Scientology is actually a cult.

I don't think that's what the Church of Scientology intended by getting the police to enforce this ban on the content of Anonymous' signs.

I have to laugh.... :hysterical::hysterical:

[Free to shine]

This court case, against this 15 year old boy, could decide whether Scientology is actually a cult or not.

I don't think that's what the Church of Scientology intended by getting the police to enforce this ban on the content of Anonymous' signs.

I have to laugh.... :hysterical::hysterical:

It's been grabbed by mainstream media, which is interesting. Almost like they were waiting... :D

[Voltaire's Child]

Did you ever hear of Bob Hope's routine about a hotel he stayed in? The story goes like this. Bob Hope was in a hotel, it was really nasty. So he decided to say something about the room in his comedy routine. He said that the room was so small, even the rats were stoop shouldered.

So he got in trouble with the hotel. Probably threatened to sue him. Demanded a retraction.

So he came back, did his routine the next day. Said "I'm sorry I said the rats were stoop shouldered. They were not."

[Zinjifar]

I'm sorry that I said that the 'Church' of Scientology brainwashed me into complete compliance with their anti-democratic megalomanic goals.

They did not.

(addendum: Scientology *doesn't* work, but, it wants to)

Zinj

[Emma]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7416425.stm


No charges over Scientology demo



Legal action has been dropped against a 15-year-old who faced prosecution for branding Scientology a "cult".

The teenager held up a sign which read, "Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult", in May outside its headquarters in the City of London.
City of London Police said they had received complaints and warned the teenager to get rid of the sign as it breached the Public Order Act.
The teenager's mother said the move was "a victory for free speech".

Free speech

She said: "We're all incredibly proud of him.

"We advised him to take the placard down when we realised what was happening but he said 'No, it's my opinion and I have a right to express it'."

A Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) spokesman said: "In consultation with the City of London Police, we were asked whether the sign was abusive or insulting.

"Our advice is that it is not abusive or insulting and there is no offensiveness (as opposed to criticism), neither in the idea expressed nor in the mode of expression."

A spokeswoman for the City of London Police said: "The CPS review of the case includes advice on what action or behaviour at a demonstration might be considered to be 'threatening, abusive or insulting. "The force's policing of future demonstrations will reflect this advice."

[Emma]

More media:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/23/religion

http://www.ryeandbattleobserver.co.uk/latest-london-news/No-prosecution-for-scientology-cult.4115574.jp

[asagai]

Epic win! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Well done EpicNoseGuy!

[asagai]

We should all turn up at the next London Picket with banners saying "Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult"

:happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

[Daedle]

"Scientology is not a religion - it is a CULT" - EpicNoseGuy, May 10th 2008

Would work even better methinks :)

[Alanzo]

It's official then!

Scientology is a dangerous cult!

[Sharone Stainforth]

"Scientology is not a religion - it is a CULT" - EpicNoseGuy, May 10th 2008

Methinks you are correct.:)

This is a brilliant news,look forward to seeing moody osa ladys face next time around.Foiled again Scientology.

[Alanzo]

We of the Church believe:
...

That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;


Once again, Scientology violates its own Creed and ends up losing and losing and losing...

Maybe one day, enough Scientologists will wake up and see the reason they keep losing: They have lost their own integrity, they do not practice Scientology any more. Their Creed is a hollow lie, hanging on the wall of every empty org and mission.

Maybe someday there will be a chink in the armor, and those with sense, and a courageous understanding of what Scientology was always supposed to be, will break through the castle walls and tear down the hypocrisies that make their Creed a lie.

And erect a Church they can be proud of - one that follows their Creed

Until then, they will continue to lose and lose.

And lose.

[asagai]

....They have lost their own integrity, they do not practice Scientology any more. Their Creed is a hollow lie, hanging on the wall of every empty org and mission.

....

They never did practice the version of Scn that is the Creed. It was a PR exercise by Hubbard.

They have always practiced Scientology - real scientology. And yes, it's official that real Scientology is a dangerous cult invented by old Hubbo and we all contributed.

[Alanzo]

Nah.

The REAL Scientology is the one I joined.

Otherwise, I would have never joined.

[asagai]

Nah.

The REAL Scientology is the one I joined.

Otherwise, I would have never joined.

The one you joined was the Scientology you wanted it to be. Then you gradually ignored all the bits that didn't fit your image of the Scn you wanted it to be.

I did too. I was conned. I allowed it. I am LRH. I am the dangerous cult. I can end it.

If I blame Ron or blame dirty Davy, I can't end the dangerous cult.

Poor pink-faced PTS OSA lady outside HSOL is me. Smiling, stalking, photo-taking OSA lady outside HSOL is me. And I weep. :bigcry:

[Free to shine]

Nah.

The REAL Scientology is the one I joined.

Otherwise, I would have never joined.

I hate to say it but I think that is what we all thought.

[byte301]

I hate to say it but I think that is what we all thought.

I was certainly leaning towards it being a cult.


:hysterical:


$cientology you lose...again...to a teenager...from the internet!

[Emma]

"No wonder Scientology hates the internet" - Dave Touretzky

[Alanzo]

If the REAL Scientology was the evil one, and not the one it pretended to be, then it can just as easily be the good Scientology, the one we all thought it was.

I keep thinking of Mormons. Joesph Smith was arrested and jailed for fraud in New York State, before he founded the Mormon Church. He had been selling his services to farmers, saying that he could find buried Indian treasure on their land through divination and charging them per day to camp out and look for it.

After he is arrested and released, he "finds" these gold plates, written in Hebrew, which told the story of how Jesus was in North America. He translates these gold plates and it's the Book of Mormon.

Today, 10 million Mormons find deep and satisfying meaning in their lives from their faith. It is a powerful force for good to them. And it's good for a lot of others who deal with the most inspired Mormons, applying the highest ideals from the Book of Mormon.

And even though Leviticus commands that homosexuals be murdered, I haven;t heard of any Christians carrying that out in hundreds of years. Certainly the official churches haven't in at least 500 years.

So religions can change, no matter how depraved some of their beliefs and writings can be. And all it takes is adherents who make it change.

I know many very good Scientologists who are acting out of the highest ideals of Scientology. I know many very constructive and healing things within Scientology.

It's just a choice. You either choose to believe and apply the dark side, or you choose to believe and apply the light.

If there was management in Scientology which confronted the dark side of Scientology, decided that was for a past time that no longer exists, and moved forward with the Creed and other ideals in Scientology, they could transform Scientology from a destructive cult to an inspiring religion.

Kind of like the difference between Davey and Tom as Scientologists, and John Travolta.

Personally, I think this is Scientology's only chance of survival. If they don't do this, their losses will destroy them.

[Free to shine]

If there was management in Scientology which confronted the dark side of Scientology, decided that was for a past time that no longer exists, and moved forward with the Creed and other ideals in Scientology, they could transform Scientology from a destructive cult to an inspiring religion.



Sorry but to me there is nothing in Scientology that could be ever an inspiring religion. Nothing. The Creed is good, but it is a hollow statement of ideals with nothing within the organisation, now or then, that could ever fulfill those ideals.

[Snuffy]

Sorry but to me there is nothing in Scientology that could be ever an inspiring religion. Nothing. The Creed is good, but it is a hollow statement of ideals with nothing within the organisation, now or then, that could ever fulfill those ideals.

ARC?

[Free to shine]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7416425.stm

No charges over Scientology demo
Legal action has been dropped against a 15-year-old who faced prosecution for branding Scientology a "cult".

The teenager held up a sign which read, "Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult", in May outside its headquarters in the City of London.

City of London Police said they had received complaints and warned the teenager to get rid of the sign as it breached the Public Order Act.

The teenager's mother said the move was "a victory for free speech".

Free speech

She said: "We're all incredibly proud of him.

"We advised him to take the placard down when we realised what was happening but he said 'No, it's my opinion and I have a right to express it'."

A Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) spokesman said: "In consultation with the City of London Police, we were asked whether the sign was abusive or insulting.

"Our advice is that it is not abusive or insulting and there is no offensiveness (as opposed to criticism), neither in the idea expressed nor in the mode of expression."

A spokeswoman for the City of London Police said: "The CPS review of the case includes advice on what action or behaviour at a demonstration might be considered to be 'threatening, abusive or insulting.

"The force's policing of future demonstrations will reflect this advice."

[asagai]

Yes, FTS we lost our way somehow on this thread didn't we!

I love the simplicity and integrity of the anons! I spoke to ENG, at the picket, about his banner and made sure he was armed with Judge Latey's words. The police were also warned of the weak ground that they were on when they announced that they were going to follow their "solicitors" advice.

Boy did ENG run a good campaign! And now he's a hero for free speech! Epic, epic, super epic Nose Guy!

Let there be cake and hugs! :happydance: Here's to Operation Sea Arrrg! ....

[Free to shine]

Yes, FTS we lost our way somehow on this thread didn't we!

I love the simplicity and integrity of the anons! I spoke to ENG, at the picket, about his banner and made sure he was armed with Judge Latey's words. The police were also warned of the weak ground that they were on when they announced that they were going to follow their "solicitors" advice.

Boy did ENG run a good campaign! And now he's a hero for free speech! Epic, epic, super epic Nose Guy!

Let there be cake and hugs! :happydance: Here's to Operation Sea Arrrg! ....

You are a hero too. :D

[Sharone Stainforth]

If the REAL Scientology was the evil one, and not the one it pretended to be, then it can just as easily be the good Scientology, the one we all thought it was.


There was never anything remotely good about L. Ron Hubbard and he created the Scientology as we know it.I agree with FTS. There is nothing worth saving in Scientology except for the people.

[asagai]

You are a hero too. :D

No I'm not, I'm just a very naughty boy! (Monty P - Life of Brian)

Hey idea for picket signs...

"LRH was not the Messiah he was just a very naughty boy!" :hysterical:

[asagai]

Just had to post this image from off enturbulation.org of PM Gordon Brown supporting anon!

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/b/bf/Prime_minister_breaks_law_1.jpg


Thanks to the CofS for making the complaint and making this epic win possible!

[byte301]

If the REAL Scientology was the evil one, and not the one it pretended to be, then it can just as easily be the good Scientology, the one we all thought it was.

I keep thinking of Mormons. Joesph Smith was arrested and jailed for fraud in New York State, before he founded the Mormon Church. He had been selling his services to farmers, saying that he could find buried Indian treasure on their land through divination and charging them per day to camp out and look for it.

After he is arrested and released, he "finds" these gold plates, written in Hebrew, which told the story of how Jesus was in North America. He translates these gold plates and it's the Book of Mormon.

Today, 10 million Mormons find deep and satisfying meaning in their lives from their faith. It is a powerful force for good to them. And it's good for a lot of others who deal with the most inspired Mormons, applying the highest ideals from the Book of Mormon.

And even though Leviticus commands that homosexuals be murdered, I haven;t heard of any Christians carrying that out in hundreds of years. Certainly the official churches haven't in at least 500 years.

So religions can change, no matter how depraved some of their beliefs and writings can be. And all it takes is adherents who make it change.

I know many very good Scientologists who are acting out of the highest ideals of Scientology. I know many very constructive and healing things within Scientology.

It's just a choice. You either choose to believe and apply the dark side, or you choose to believe and apply the light.

If there was management in Scientology which confronted the dark side of Scientology, decided that was for a past time that no longer exists, and moved forward with the Creed and other ideals in Scientology, they could transform Scientology from a destructive cult to an inspiring religion.

Kind of like the difference between Davey and Tom as Scientologists, and John Travolta.

Personally, I think this is Scientology's only chance of survival. If they don't do this, their losses will destroy them.

Alanzo

You gave me something I really need to think about with this post. I have to mull it over a little. I'll let you know what I decide. But for right now I think it's a cult in it's present form. I gotta think about whether it has a right to survive or not and whether it can evolve into a legitimate religion or not. Interesting. About an hour ago I would have said no. Damn you Alanzo!!! lol

[slimjim]

I just read the following:
"Liberty anger after scientology protest case dropped", from Worthing Herald (whereever that is) Looks like Liberty wants to press charges and take City of London police to court. That could be interesting.

[Free to shine]

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/latest-london-news/Liberty-anger-after-scientology-protest.4116665.jp

Liberty anger after scientology protest case dropped


GalleryHuman rights group Liberty has pledged to take action against City of London Police after the force tried to prosecute a teenager for branding Scientology a "cult".
The 16-year-old had faced prosecution after refusing to get rid of a placard that said "Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult" at a protest outside the church's headquarters in the City of London on May 10.

He was told his sign brADVERTISEMENTeached the Public Order Act, which makes it an offence to display a sign that is "threatening, insulting or abusive".

But the Crown Prosecution Service later said no action will be taken against the teenager.

Liberty, whose lawyers have been advising the 16-year-old, is now considering action against the force.

The boy's mother said the case being dropped was "a victory for free speech. We're all incredibly proud of him.

"We advised him to take the placard down when we realised what was happening but he said 'No, it's my opinion and I have a right to express it'."

Her views were echoed by Liberty's legal director James Welch, who said: "At last an outbreak of common sense; but pretty worrying for free speech that the police even threatened this young man with prosecution.

"They may have ended their inquiries into this tawdry incident but rest assured that Liberty's inquiry will continue. Democracy is all about clashing ideas and the police should protect peaceful protest, not stifle it."

Scientology was previously described as "a cult" and "corrupt, sinister and dangerous" by Mr Justice Latey in a court ruling in 1984.



Copyright (c) Press Association Ltd. 2008, All Rights Reserved.

[Free to shine]

More media here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=95526#post95526

[holdemm]

Indirectly the Church really shot itself in the foot with that one.

But I haven't seen anything really in the US Media on this.

[Lee_from_phx]

This is a victory, but it is a small one.

Scientology isn't the only evil in the world.

The notion that "offensiveness" is a valid basis for censorship, let alone criminal prosecution, is a greater threat to the free world than Scientology could ever dream of being.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." (If you can tell me who I'm quoting, I'll give you a cookie.)

To forbid speech that others take offense to is to forbid speech period. There is no objective measurement of how "offensive" something is, or objective criteria for what constitutes an "offensive" statement.

I could choose, with a perfectly straight face, to pretend to be 'offended' by just about anything anyone anywhere might choose to say at any time. Because what is 'offensive' to me is completely subjective, those targeted by me for causing offense would be unable to defend against the charge.

This scenario is in fact precisely what those who demand freedom from being offended intend to create. They want a world in which ideas and facts with which they disagree can be made illegal to express, and they've made a great deal of progress in that direction.

Genuinely valid restrictions upon freedom of expression are few in number and adhere to a stringent objective standard. Inciting someone to commit a crime ("Go kill that bastard!") is not protected. Neither is speech that would cause a reasonable person to endanger themselves or others, such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater when no fire was present.

Restricting speech because it hurts someone's feelings is not only foolish, it is wrong. The truth is more important than how anyone feels, and without near-absolute freedom of expression, the truth can and will be obscured by the powerful and the zealous. This is nothing more than tyranny through manners, a new spin on a very old game.

To create a world where people can demand freedom from the things they don't want to hear is to create a world where everyone will be free...from the light of truth.

[Lee_from_phx]

Nah.

The REAL Scientology is the one I joined.

Otherwise, I would have never joined.

What you thought you joined was a figment of your imagination.

But don't feel too bad, most people here fell for the very same scam.

[Zinjifar]

What you thought you joined was a figment of your imagination.

But don't feel too bad, most people here fell for the very same scam.

The 'real Scientology' wasn't even a figment of Ron's imagination; it was the bait in His trap.

Zinj

[Lee_from_phx]

This is what happens when liberty is sacrificed on the altar of "political correctness."

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to." -- Thedore Dalrymple

[Dulloldfart]

This is what happens when liberty is sacrificed on the altar of "political correctness."

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to." -- Thedore Dalrymple

That is an interesting--even plausible--view I had not considered before. Thank you.

Paul

[Pixie]

This is what happens when liberty is sacrificed on the altar of "political correctness."

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to." -- Thedore Dalrymple

Excellent post, nail on the head for sure. :thumbsup:

[Pixie]

TE=Axiom142;94479]How about a sign that says:

Scientology is very nice and is not
a cult ?

Hmmm, better not - might get prosecuted under the Trades Description Act![/QUOTE]

:laugh: Good one!! :thumbsup: