What was the last straw for you?

[Lovesnightsky]

I recently met with a couple of exes and one of the questions that came up was, what was it that made you to finally leave the CofS?

Personally speaking I was aware that the CofS was a cult from very early on, but it didn't seem to matter to me. I was still curious and I loved the tech. The moment I realised I had to leave (although I thought it could be done standardly) was when I was at the airport reading a novel by Terry Prattchet and when my flight was called, I started counting the pages on my novel as I would do every single day in study while on staff. At that moment I thought, "oops, I think I have overdone this game. There's no way they are having my mind."

Things went downhill after that as when I told the ED I was leaving staff I became persona non grata overnight. :omg: :omg: :omg:

[DartSmohen]

The B1 guys had asked me for some support in resolving an issue. I gave it, being a Flag Legionnaire and World Tour speaker. As usual. the Scilons made a complete dogs bollocks of the matter and looking for a scapegoat decided to expel me with a ludicrous and libellous expulsion order.

I looked at it and decided that in order to resolve the matter, the Scilon management needed to do a full liability formula. The policy was never to spologise (Hubbard ser fac - one of them). So, we parted company.

Life moves on. Of course, these drones (mostly untrained) had no concept of what happens to a person when you give them a wrong item.

Newton's Law of Motion applies, over and over and over.:yes: :yes: :whistling:

[Thrak]

There were certain comments made to me by reges that made it clear that I would be put under continuous pressure to destroy myself financially in order to have the privilege of showing up for course and auditing. The guys who talk about not punishing an up stat are the masters of punishing up stats.

[Mark A. Baker]

"De-dinging" came in ('82) and I was "expected" to conform my personal sense of ethics to the practices of local mission management (SOC -J.Woodruff, et al).

In particular an unethical reg cycle involving a friend of mine occurred and I did a KR on the reg/executive involved. That got me sent to ethics, which amused me as I was one of only two then posted to HCO. I was assigned a condition of "doubt" which was ironic as I had no doubt at all about what was occurring. I did my "formula" like a good scientologist and then told them I was routing off of staff since clearly the management's view of "ethical practices" weren't in alignment with mine. :)

This was not the "correct" answer as far as the Ethics Officer (ex-GO, brought in to "toughen" the "ethics presence" at the mission) was concerned but nonetheless I routed off of staff with little real trouble.

The most amusing thing about the cycle is within the year the SO came down HARD on the mission (ultimately assimilating it into an org) and required the Ethics Officer to ask me in so she could apologize PERSONALLY to me. It was clear she HATED having to do this but it had been ordered as it was a precursor to attempting to recover me to staff.

I accepted the apology but declined the opportunity for further employment.




I was at the airport reading a novel by Terry Prattchet ...

Which one?

"Small Gods","The Truth", & "Jingo" are my faves so far, but they are all enjoyable.



Mark A. Baker

[gomorrhan]

My moment of truth came when I was sitting in Treasury at Boston Day one day, doing my job as D/Dir Disbursements, when I realized I had become frantic. My then-wife had told me she was pregnant about a month earlier, and we were making about 120 a week between us at the Church. I was working in a convenience store on weekends and late at night, and I was burning the candle at both ends. I have a pretty strong constitution for such treatment, but after about a month getting up at about six in the morning, commuting to the Church, working a full day, doing a full 2.5 hours of staff study, and then commuting back, working a six hour shift from 11:00 to 5:00 in the morning, and sleeping an hour or so here or there every day, I finally admitted to myself that I simply couldn't do this. It was beyond my capacity, and when the baby was born, there was no way I could be there to care for the child, or possibly afford to feed another human being. As it was, I was eating on a 2 dollar a day budget for me. Seriously. 23 hours on the go, and 2 bucks to power it. And I still couldn't pay my rent, and so I was always in "lowers" at home, doing extra chores when I came in at 5:00 in the morning and needed (desperately) my sleep.

I was sitting in Treasury, freaking out about being missing an invoice for a transaction, and I just started to sob uncontrollably. I just couldn't do it. I went down to HCO, argued with Janice Plumb and Mitra Ghobadi (Hall) for about three hours, and finally just walked out, flipping a bird, and just QUAT. No more LOA forms, no more forms to route off, no more sec checks on no sleep, I was fucking gone.

Ultimately, when I was hungry and tired, stressed and in a box, I realized I was losing who I really am. Which was the opposite of why I was there.

I did try to get back in after they declared me, about three years later, but not so I could be on staff. I was just still considering myself a scientologist, but I thought there was something wrong. I considered it could be me, but I thought there was a lot wrong with the way the orgs functioned, and the bottom line was, every time I got a paycheck (ha, it was small bills, paid in cash, per the units I had as D/Dir Disbursments), I felt like someone kicked me while I was out of breath.

I used to literally pan-handle to eat. I saw it as a game, but it was a game that I played to the tune of a loss of dignity.

Scientology makes a lot of money (or they did). They could afford to pay their staff a working wage. I simply couldn't escape that "out-point". It was threatening my independence and my survival, and the future of my child and wife.

That was it.

[Kathy (ImOut)]

The last straw for me was seeing my "program" after completing Grade IV, which I never needed in the first place. I figured it would be another $100K before I actually would be allowed onto the OT Levels and I was already Clear. I'm sure if I'd stuck around I would have been told I wasn't Clear. And at that point, had I been there and been given that R-factor I would have gone "postal".

[Amadeus Einstein]

It was simply a case of one KR too many.

I was working my socks off trying to do a good job, but certain colleagues obviously had mocked up that they had a monster in their midst.

I'd been minding my own business in a meeting, patiently listening to the presentation when another staff member interrupted the meeting and started snarling something about me looking miserable. Obviously too many late nights were starting to show on my face.

I wrote a KR on her HE&R and instead of following policy on what to do with a report the staff member doesn't agree with, she wrote a nasty KR back. This was ignored by Ethics, as was the cram I wrote.

There was a cabal of about 4-5 staff plus a frequent visitor from the CLO who were always HE&Ry and nattering about me. The sour looks on two people's faces in particular told me everything I needed to know.

A favourite trick seemed to be to sandbag things to write up, so that reports on some alleged event might be written weeks or months later, rather than write it at the time it supposedly happened, when my stats were up.

The final, final straw was a P.S. addended to some report, something about my production being in a low range. Well, what about all the years that particular stat was a big, fat ZERO before I took on the post, plus the fact I wasn't being flowed the particles I needed to do my job by other staff. Couldn't be to do with the fact my colleagues had already been soured against me by that little coterie of opinion leaders, could it?

[asagai]

For me it was when I was told I would be declared if I continued what I was doing on post and that I would be declared if I stopped! My stats were in Affluence at the time. :duh:

A SO exec said he didn't want to see me declared. I wrote up a workable solution to the situation and it was rejected.

So guess what? I got declared! No CommEv, no other ethics gradient. :melodramatic:

It took me about ten more years to realise that Scn was a mad cult! How dim could I be to take that long to work that out! :duh: :duh: :duh:

[Wisened One]

One of the last straws for me was: I was EXHAUSTED, working nearly 80 hrs a week, NO TIME OFF...(except a day or two here and there and then it was to do laundry, try to sleep, feeling guilty that you HAD the day off if your stats weren't up, and even if they were, you mind is stuck on that person ya didn't Reg, etc..etc..).

And it was the 'never-ending' job of 'Clearing The Planet'. I could see, that if I continued working at the 80 hrs a week, with very little to no money, very little food,etc.etc...that I would be working that way this entire lifetime!

Also it was seeing all these Pre-OTs and OT VIII's still having problems of all kinds....gee, WHAT exactly did the three hundred grand get ya? :wacko:

OUTTA HERE! :yes:

[anon_kat]

the last straw for me was when I was working nearly 90 hours a week, no pay (because I was down-stat), no days off (EVER) again because I was down-stat. I was also exhausted all the time, I was skint, and depressed.
I lost the strength to wake up in the mornings to report for post and ended up barricading myself at home, in bed. I remember marvelling at what my flat looked like in daylight, I had only ever been there at night!

[FinallyMe]

I was largely off-lines after I attested to natural clear because I refused to leave my family (2 small kids) every night and weekend to do the Solo Course. And THEN we were ordered to appear at, I think, some hotel's basement in LA, LOCKED IN and told we would be declared if we tried to leave (Excuuuuuuuse me????) and then we were introduced to the finance police. The atmosphere and threats were JUST too much to believe, so I clamped my mouth shut and left when we were permitted to leave, and that was it. Church tried an Int/Ext rundown which did nothing, and then everybody gave up.

[Wisened One]

And THEN we were ordered to appear at, I think, some hotel's basement in LA, LOCKED IN and told we would be declared if we tried to leave (Excuuuuuuuse me????)

They did this to you as a Public?! :omg:

Were you in a large group? (Did they do that to the entire Org's Public or something?). :wow: :no:

[sandygirl]

Quote from FinallyMe:


was largely off-lines after I attested to natural clear because I refused to leave my family (2 small kids) every night and weekend to do the Solo Course. And THEN we were ordered to appear at, I think, some hotel's basement in LA, LOCKED IN and told we would be declared if we tried to leave (Excuuuuuuuse me????) and then we were introduced to the finance police. The atmosphere and threats were JUST too much to believe, so I clamped my mouth shut and left when we were permitted to leave, and that was it. Church tried an Int/Ext rundown which did nothing, and then everybody gave up.

Yup!!! Been there!! Scary isn't it. You find yourself saying whatever you have to to get out of the room. I wasn't brave enough to test if the SO missionaire and her goons would put their hands on me to physically stop me. I promised to w/c KSW! AGAIN:omg: :omg: and get right back to them. Then I got the hell out!!!!

Quote from Wisend Ones"


They did this to you as a Public?!

Were you in a large group? (Did they do that to the entire Org's Public or something?).

Oh yeah... this is the way public(who are paying $$$ for the "privilige" of being there!) are treated now.

And if they can't coerce you in the org. they will come and do it in your home!!! I KID YOU NOT!!!!

My kids are terrified of these SO thugs now!!!!!

[Wisened One]

:omg: !!!

Man, one of those Public should get that on their video phones or something....:yes:

That's really crazy to do that to Public, always thought they were treated as Level three of the Onion. *see The Scientological Onion thread on here*

[byte301]

Mine was when a reg tried to get me to call an uncle I hadn't spoken to in years to try to get a loan. I would have died first. I just realized that this cult didn't care how much they degraded you as staff or as public as long as they got your money. I was upset and went to the EO and told him I thought I was probably a no case gain. (I was actually feeling guilty about refusing to call my uncle! But not guilty enough to actually call him! lol) I had been thinking I was a no case gain for a while anyway. He totally ignored my origination and patted me on the back with some "make it go right" crap as usual. I was on course at the time and just walked out never to return. :angry:

[sandygirl]

Byte 301

They just let you go???

I'm shocked (and jealous)

It took 2 years:omg: :omg: for the "church" to finally realize I mean business!!! Home invasions, endless phone calls, etc.

They actually coached family members on how to try to get us back!!! That of course started more trouble!!!
(and those "handling" scripts were always so phony!!! who would fall for them?)

[gomorrhan]

:)

[gomorrhan]

the last straw for me was when I was working nearly 90 hours a week, no pay (because I was down-stat), no days off (EVER) again because I was down-stat. I was also exhausted all the time, I was skint, and depressed.
I lost the strength to wake up in the mornings to report for post and ended up barricading myself at home, in bed. I remember marvelling at what my flat looked like in daylight, I had only ever been there at night!
It is wierd when you are at home "doing nothing" when you are so used to working yourself to the bone. I had a similar experience while I was becoming ready to leave, and took a day off. It was wierd being at home. I got in severe "ethics trouble" for that.

[diablo]

I believe for me was:
1. I was SO TIRED, working my ass out and no payroll.
2. Not having money, not having family, not having space, not having a house, not having a dog, NOT HAVING AT ALL.
3. Not eating sometimes...
4. Not moving up on my own bridge since I was a SOM.
5. Thee need for unusuall solutions due the Orgs were so fucked up...
6. No sex.
7. No regular normal life.
anything else? Oh yes, no more than half day to wash my things and see my family.

But now I am okay, I have my business, expanding and having family, even I will fiish my career.

[Andrew]

I can't believe people actually got any staff pay. I think I got got paid twice for a grand total of approx $100 over the course of 3 years. That's a good contributor as to why I left. I really don't like living in poverty.

Here's some GAT questions for any prospective OOT:

You have zero money. You need to wash and dry your clothes but the machines are all coin operated. What do you do?

You have zero money. Your room mates have zero money. You'd like to go to the toilet but have no toilet paper as you have to buy it. What do you do?

You have zero money. You decide that the most sensible thing would be to go and get a proper job so you can pay your board and have some semblance of personal hygiene and human dignity as an alternative to work/study. Your told "No, just get your org to pay". Your org can't even pay their own rent or bills let alone give money to some schmuck half way around the world. What do you do?

You finally make it back home with the trusty "My visa expired over a year ago" argument. Your org wants to send you back. What do you do?

You're a guy sharing a house with two girls. You've just spent the best part of 2 years without sex, hugs or kisses. :omg: You've just managed to hook up with one of your house-mates. :smoochy: Your org wants you to go back to Flag. What do you do?

Correct Answer:
Run god dam it, run. :runaround:

[sallydannce]

One of my last straws would have to be assigned to the completely batty, entirely off the wall, "findings" that a sea org unit dished out to me on a board of review. I'd requested a B of R to standardly investigate why I had had some out-tech run on me (which I believe contributed to spinning me in, an illness & subsequent freeloaders bill due to being a pile of sick shit). Loooong story but the finale was spectacularly nutty.

The board of review was requested by me. I NEVER heard ONE word from the CLO on it. I gave up trying to communicate to them. About a year later an old mate from the SO was in town - we talked - she went back to the CLO and checked into my request. She phoned me to say I'd had the B of R - months ago - and the findings were odd.

The findings included but were not limited to "discovering" I had withheld vital info about myself the entire time I had been in scientology (related to drugs I had taken) and this was why things had f***ed up with my auditing/my health, etc. The problem was this LIE about me had been addressed by various C/Ses over the years and I'd even had several related auditing actions on it. On the second DAY I was in scientology my full drug history had been documented! No secrets ever about my drug history. So much for looking in the folders and getting to the truth. No one spoke to me from the board team - might have been a good idea but hey when the elite get elite, they get elite.

This CLO B of R took incompetence, arrogance, stupidity & incompetence (hell did I say that already) to a new level. Their "findings" categorised me as a person to ignore - a type of PTS who should be ignored - big trouble source person.

Like a puppet in a cult, I then attempted to get this sea org issued ethics order reversed which eventually involved me travelling to the nearest AO. I did get the ethics order revoked. Then.. shit can't be bothered with the rest of the story. Much too convoluted to convey in less than eight pages.

I knew then that things were horribly off-the-wall in scientology from the top to the bottom. I had international persons in the loop on this cycle - a protective back-up, or so I thought. They were no help either. I knew there was no caring - the casual insincerity, the hard focus on money - it all started to paint a very dark picture. There were too many out-points to count. After this I started pulling back and well, here I am.

[Neo]

Working two full time jobs so I could pay the bills (Org staff, and non-staff job), leaving not enough money to eat properly, spend time with friends and family. Left constantly feeling like I just wasn't doing enough.

And then having a heart attack (in part, certainly because of the stress). And then when asking to be allowed to leave staff to sort my health out, being told 'no, you should have thought about that before you signed a contract.'

So I left.

[Free Will]

You're a guy sharing a house with two girls. You've just spent the best part of 2 years without sex, hugs or kisses. :omg: You've just managed to hook up with one of your house-mates. :smoochy: Your org wants you to go back to Flag. What do you do?

Correct Answer:
Run god dam it, run. :runaround:

With the house-mate?
Yep. Correct answer!
:handinhand: :thumbsup:

[sallydannce]

Working two full time jobs so I could pay the bills (Org staff, and non-staff job), leaving not enough money to eat properly, spend time with friends and family. Left constantly feeling like I just wasn't doing enough.

And then having a heart attack (in part, certainly because of the stress). And then when asking to be allowed to leave staff to sort my health out, being told 'no, you should have thought about that before you signed a contract.'

So I left.

A damn fine example of the ridiculous insanities. Sorry you had to go through this & though you write it so succinctly, it was obviously no small event in your life. :)

[gomorrhan]

Glad you're here, Sallydance. Glad you had the fortitude to fight, and the wisdom to learn. Reading your story reminded me of Beghe's comment "I'm having a moment". The realization that what you thought you were a part of wasn't what you thought it was. Takes a while to completely sort out what it actually was. It boils down to the simple words scam and cult, in terms of the effects it causes on people, and it preys on the idealistic. I'm very glad we have the internet, these days, because the Church of Scientology cannot stand the scrutiny it has brought upon them.

And with Anonymous on the scene, I think it's safe to say that the chickens have come home to roost.

[sallydannce]

Glad you're here, Sallydance. Glad you had the fortitude to fight, and the wisdom to learn. Reading your story reminded me of Beghe's comment "I'm having a moment". The realization that what you thought you were a part of wasn't what you thought it was. Takes a while to completely sort out what it actually was. It boils down to the simple words scam and cult, in terms of the effects it causes on people, and it preys on the idealistic. I'm very glad we have the internet, these days, because the Church of Scientology cannot stand the scrutiny it has brought upon them.

And with Anonymous on the scene, I think it's safe to say that the chickens have come home to roost.

:flowers: Gomorrhan! So true! Cult & scam, cult & scam, cult & scam...

The internet is the sunlight. And Anonymous is without a doubt the sweetest chickens I ever did see. :)

[Lee_from_phx]

In my case I was kicked off staff.

I was the treasury secretary at the time. It was my job to "handle" the vendors and utility companies. Well the right way to handle them is to pay them what you owe, but Hubbard's insane money laundering scheme didn't leave enough cash to do that, so the bills didn't get paid.

Through some sort of twisted logic this made it my fault that the bills weren't being paid.

My response to this was that we weren't bringing in money because we were charging too much for what we were trying to sell. Economic demand consists of both the desire and the ABILITY to pay for a good or service. It doesn't matter how much someone wants something, if they can't afford it then you can't sell it to them. This is econ-101 kindergarten stuff, but not to the clamdroids, oh no! To them what I was talking about was "wog tech" and therefore wrong, evil, subversive, suppressive, etc, etc, etc.

I also didn't act like a cultie. This point is difficult to explain exactly, but I didn't don the blinders that the rest of them wore and were so fearful to remove. I kept looking for ways to bring the outside world into the org and to promote the org to the outside world WITHOUT targeting people who were predisposed to falling into a cult.

I was only 20 at the time and in my naivete I actually believed that I could change scientology so that it was not a cult anymore. I was interested in scientology as a subject, but I hated the brain-damaged way that most scientologists behaved. I wanted to integrate scientology into society and open the doors of the org to the outside world. One of my catch phrases at the time, which I still use today was: "No one has a monopoly on the truth." In other words, scientology doesn't have all the answers and never could. If you want the whole truth you have to look beyond your own back yard.

Now of course I know that scientology is what Orwell was talking about when he said "Propaganda lies, even when it tells the truth." Unlike many false and flawed ideologies, Scientology isn't even an honest attempt at finding the truth. It consists of lies deliberately told in order to enslave and destroy people. I'm not a religious man, but Hubbard has my vote for Anti-Christ. I don't know of anyone else who fits the bill more closely.

Needless to say, I didn't fit in very well.

When I first got involved in Scientology, a big deal had been made about the fact that I'd been given ritalin when I was a young child for a short time. Well the senior C/S int had said I was ok.

I still had some questions about exactly what it was that I'd been given and so forth. It was suggested that I have a particular scientology chiropractor obtain my medical records for me, which I did. When those records arrived, instead of passing them on to me like she was supposed to, she violated the law by giving them to the org's C/S without my permission.

The C/S looked at the records and took the opportunity to throw a fit and fall in it. She had no medical training but still felt herself qualified to comment on the dangers of another drug they'd also put me on at the same time I'd been on ritalin called adderal. Looking back on all of the nonsense and histrionics today, it strikes me as a textbook case of what happens when crazy meets stupid.

The C/S determined that I was an illegal PC and therefore not qualled for staff. I have no doubt that this judgment was heavily influenced by the ED who didn't like me much.

So I got kicked off staff. At first I came in to volunteer, but was told that I wasn't wanted, so I stopped coming around. This was in late 1994. The Senior C/S Int later declared once again that I was not an Illegal PC. But by then I was long gone from staff and would not ever want to return.

In the spring of '96 I started college, something I'd never have done had I continued to waste time with the cult. It was in the university library that I found most of the books that are now available on Dave Touretzky's site. Those books knocked my socks off. I couldn't believe half of what they were saying, but I also couldn't deny how much of it fit in with my own experiences and the things I'd seen.

At that point I didn't want anything more to do with the cult in any way whatsoever. But I did still think that Scientology as a subject was something of value, just as I always had. I didn't yet realize that the subject is just as worthless and corrupt as the organization created to exploit it.

As time went by I realized that any correlation that scientology has with the truth is spurious. It is complete horseshit and was intended to be from the start. Its purpose is to enslave and destroy. As such it contains just enough truth to mask its lies. It was at that point that I became not just an ex-scientologist, but a NON scientologist.

Today I come to sites such as this one to find out what sorts of things are going on with the ongoing effort to destroy this cancer upon the world. But Scientology isn't something that is a part of me anymore. I don't apply "tech" or "policy" in my daily life, and the culture and prejudices of scientology don't influence my thought processes or how I deal with the world. It has become something that I look back upon and think "What the hell was I thinking?"

It is hard to say what the last straw was really. When they kick YOU out the question doesn't mean as much. I guess the real change came from learning the truth about the cult in the university library. If there was a last straw, it was that, because that is when I began turning away from scientology.

[gomorrhan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

Adderall came out in 1996.

I started turning away from scientology when I realized that the effective bits were enhancements (in my opinion) of older techniques, and I didn't have to have a connection to the Church or that subject in order to use the parts I found useful.

I had been in the FreeZone for about five years when this occurred. I think the subject is not worthless and corrupt, but I do think it was created to keep people in, and only give them "wins" when they were conforming to Rondroidishness. Corrupt is definitely the word for the Church. However, I don't credit them with just being worthless. I consider them to be an active liability within any community that they function. Their stated aim is in the "Special Zone Plan". They will do whatever they can think of to put their people in positions of power. They also distract people from finding real help or care or growth, and destroy families in the pursuit of isolating the members and extorting money out of them to see each other.

The only solution I've been able to think of is to make people aware of the danger the Church represents to them and their family. The internet is a real beauty for that.

[Emma]

The final straw for me was when my then husband finished his contract and was trying to route out standardly.

This man had done two contracts amounting to probably 10 - 12 years on staff. He had kept the HGC alive as the only auditor for years, got fabulous results on PCs, worked 50 - 70 hours a week every week and was never in ethics trouble.

His contract expired, we were destitute (both on staff), had a toddler and beyond exhausted. He tried to do the right thing and route off standardly.

I've never seen someone be treated worse in my life. He was yelled and screamed at, belittled, mocked, taunted, harrassed and in the end he just had to leave. The result was that I was still there and I copped the fallout. I was sec checked, KRd, screamed at, blamed etc until I had enough too. I was the only GAT auditor at the time and you'd think they'd have tried a little kindness to keep me.

The day I was given a non enturb order was the last straw for me. That in itself is a whole other story.

I went home. Turned on my puter knowing that what I was about to do would change everything (although I had no idea just how much) and yahoo'd "Scientology - opposing views".

Game over.

[johnAnchovie]

aside from seeing this material: http://www.enturbulation.org/

Well, the real beginning of the end was during the Afro-Carribean/Muslim race riots in the Lozells, Birmingham back in 2005, I was in the org, listening to this unfold on the news, I jumped up, grabbed my VM jacket, a VM backpack, a bunch of TWTH and then told the EC that we needed to get up there right now, this being our city, our people, our responsibility. I was stonewalled, shocked at some of the racist comments I was getting about these 'DBs' up there. I said fuck you, and spent three days and three nights or so up there on the streets, it was mad, burning cars, riot police and TV crews. Me like a twat in the yellow VM gear, talking to shop keepers, gang members and police.

I eventually volunteered in various capacities in the community, I was blown away by just how dedicated, honest, kind and deeply compassionate and human some of these Muslin and Afro-Carribean 'DBs' were. It was then that my eyes began to open and the material posted on the interwebs began to get through to me, 'my church' did not give a hoot about the real tragedy and suffering going on just a mile down the road, no, they had to get their stats up.

Then HAWKIE posted a statement to Alanzo on the belief.net and announced that he was out.

[AnonymousID-V42B]

The day I was given a non enturb order was the last straw for me. That in itself is a whole other story.

I went home. Turned on my puter knowing that what I was about to do would change everything (although I had no idea just how much) and yahoo'd "Scientology - opposing views".

Game over.

Not really a thread for me, but...

For some reason, Emma, and not to make light of it, but I imagine you sitting in an easychair, and talking to someone who has the voice like James Earl Jones, and is sitting in the shadows.

[opens hand, unveiling blue SO hat] You take the blue hat, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. [opens hand, unveiling red GF mask] You take the red mask, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: All I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

(I don't think the OG had much in the way of logos, else I'd use it as the red pill.)

:mudkip:

[Emma]

Not really a thread for me, but...

For some reason, Emma, and not to make light of it, but I imagine you sitting in an easychair, and talking to someone who has the voice like James Earl Jones, and is sitting in the shadows.

[opens hand, unveiling blue SO hat] You take the blue hat, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. [opens hand, unveiling red GF mask] You take the red mask, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: All I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

(I don't think the OG had much in the way of logos, else I'd use it as the red pill.)

:mudkip:

Very cute :)

The OG didn't have much in the way of visual logos etc. This is probably the one & only:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/atack/images/arscc.gif

[Lee_from_phx]

I've never seen someone be treated worse in my life. He was yelled and screamed at, belittled, mocked, taunted, harrassed and in the end he just had to leave. The result was that I was still there and I copped the fallout. I was sec checked, KRd, screamed at, blamed etc until I had enough too. I was the only GAT auditor at the time and you'd think they'd have tried a little kindness to keep me.

Slave owners don't like it when their property decides it prefers to be free.

Another example of what happens when crazy meets stupid.

Actually though that isn't the best description. Scientology is crazy, but the aspect of its nature that is most important is that it is evil.

Scientology is also stupid, but in this case it is the short sighted nature of the cult that mattered most.

So this is a case of what happens when evil meets short-sightedness.

Scientology is just vile evil bullshit, and I'm very glad that you two are free of it.

Every scientologist who leaves is a nail in its coffin.

[FinallyMe]

"Mine was when a reg tried to get me to call an uncle I hadn't spoken to in years to try to get a loan. I would have died first. "


When I first started the Comm Course, I missed a couple of days because my {then} husband beat me up and I didn't want to go to the Org with black eyes -- so of course they told me I was PTS (whatever THAT was - knew zip about Scientology at the time) and told me to disconnect. HOWEVER, when they wanted money for another course, the reg stood right there and made me call my then-ex husband to try to get some money from him. (Of course he didn't give me any!) I guess that is "disconnect from SPs unless they have money."

[Alanzo]

John Anchovie wrote:

....Then HAWKIE posted a statement to Alanzo on the belief.net and announced that he was out.

Ha!! I think I remember that!

[johnAnchovie]

John Anchovie wrote:


Ha!! I think I remember that!


Vinnie bitterly complemented you on succeeding to get another one out. I say you deserve a medal. Or a promotion, Chief Exit Officer or something. :eyeroll:

[byte301]

"Mine was when a reg tried to get me to call an uncle I hadn't spoken to in years to try to get a loan. I would have died first. "


When I first started the Comm Course, I missed a couple of days because my {then} husband beat me up and I didn't want to go to the Org with black eyes -- so of course they told me I was PTS (whatever THAT was - knew zip about Scientology at the time) and told me to disconnect. HOWEVER, when they wanted money for another course, the reg stood right there and made me call my then-ex husband to try to get some money from him. (Of course he didn't give me any!) I guess that is "disconnect from SPs unless they have money."


I'm surprised they didn't immediatly send you to ethics for talking to an sp!
Especially since you didn't get the money. :yes:

And they call US degraded. :D

[byte301]

Byte 301

They just let you go???

I'm shocked (and jealous)

It took 2 years:omg: :omg: for the "church" to finally realize I mean business!!! Home invasions, endless phone calls, etc.

They actually coached family members on how to try to get us back!!! That of course started more trouble!!!
(and those "handling" scripts were always so phony!!! who would fall for them?)

LOL No, it wasn't quite that easy. They didn't have my current address and my phone was unlisted. hehe I had told them I didn't have a phone yet since I had just moved. So I think that I had subconciously planned on blowing for quite awhile. Someone did show up at my job. It was after hours and my boss was the only one there. I had left my car there because I had gone out with some co-workers to have a drink!:ohmy: So my boss told the Scilon I was gone and the stupid asshole stood there and argued with my boss. lol

So I told my boss that it was a crazy relative of mine who just got out of the nut house (no shit, I really told him that!) and if this person ever came around again to call the police. So the person comes back and my boss tells them he is calling the police and the $cilon split...fast. :p

They called my mother once. She was one tough lady and their ears are probably still ringing. They never called again.

[Reasonable Lady]

LOL No, it wasn't quite that easy. They didn't have my current address and my phone was unlisted. hehe I had told them I didn't have a phone yet since I had just moved. So I think that I had subconciously planned on blowing for quite awhile. Someone did show up at my job. It was after hours and my boss was the only one there. I had left my car there because I had gone out with some co-workers to have a drink!:ohmy: So my boss told the Scilon I was gone and the stupid asshole stood there and argued with my boss. lol

So I told my boss that it was a crazy relative of mine who just got out of the nut house (no shit, I really told him that!) and if this person ever came around again to call the police. So the person comes back and my boss tells them he is calling the police and the $cilon split...fast. :p

They called my mother once. She was one tough lady and their ears are probably still ringing. They never called again.

This was brillant. The scilon was "just out of a nut house" (his local org).:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

RL

[free1996]

1) mom and sister went to INT for years, no family.
2) sent to the adult RPF when I was 13 (no orders, CO CMO didn't like me)my mom never saved me or used her power to help me. I had been working at AOLA and was in affluence, being upstat. She had two people pick me up and force me out of the building.I was on suicide watch for 2 days. I wasn't allowed to call anyone.
3) went to Flordia for officer training-CO CMO sent a messeger to tear me down even though I was upstat messeger in training-doing my studies and cleaning messegers rooms and uniforms. She found out I was going to be a messeger in Flordia or go up to INT and she couldn't have that. I never really got to find out why she hated me so much.
4) started working at CC, the same CO and her messeger (Jeri Tiveron) again tried to have me removed from post . Later OSA INT wanted me to work for them, I was so excited..the CO CMO and her messeger found out, somehow got me busted down to PBC without orders. This crazy circle went on for 5 years!!!! The CO went to the RPF later and Jeri went to the RPF about 3 times and finally got off loaded. She was a very suppressive person and I truly feel she was the one feeding all kinds of shit to the CO. But the CO should have been wise to see all angles-but she just ended up being another stupid broad that was given power and abused it.
Then to make matters worse, I was dated one of her messegers!! HA HA
5) My mom wanted me to get married when I was 14 and then again at 16 so I wouldn't go out 2-D. She was willing to sign the papers.
6) My mom thought I had lost my virginity and had Dr.Denk check me.
7) No pay, no rewards, no education, screwed up childhood (about 16 years in), loss of family,sexual-physical-verbal abuse.
8) All the lies and cover ups
9) Being scared all the time. Walking on egg shells.
10) Knowing you will never be good enough and never ever qualify to be at INT.
11) Knowing the laws and rules and tech did not apply to those in PAC. You never went up the bridge. No one ever cared about the truth or how to do things properly. I use to complain to my mom that everything was correct and ethical at INT but very wrong in PAC. She told me I was nattering and being suppressive!
12) knowing my life was never going to change in the Sea Org. I knew the mother I knew before had changed along time ago and the person before me was a stranger.
13) My mind was always telling me to get out. I knew things were bad and wrong. I was willing to kill myself just to be free. I was standing at a open window frame on the 10th floor of the HGB building (when it was under construction) and thinking just a couple more steps towards the window and it would be over, I would be free, the stress was melting away at this answer. But as I stepped closer, I thought what if I only break my back or something and I'm still alive..but now unable to run away. I turned away from the window. Later I turned away from Scientology and my family.

[Terril park]

FREE
10) Knowing you will never be good enough and never ever qualify to be at INT.

BB
You done way better. :)

You are here!

[Alanzo]

Vinnie bitterly complemented you on succeeding to get another one out. I say you deserve a medal. Or a promotion, Chief Exit Officer or something. :eyeroll:

I am humbled.

But I'll take the medal.... :)

[Escalus]

It being so long ago i have to admit the details are fuzzy enough that i can rightfully say i don't really think there was "a" moment.

I had been happy public, then the first week i went on staff I knew something real big had changed for the worse but I soldiered on because i drank the koolaid. I didn't see anything great in OTs - they were mostly big-mouthed, self-aggrandizing jerks who hid their sniffles and weren't really at cause over anything. I was tired of being tired, sick of being hungry and - even though I was usually a very upstat person in every position I held, everytime I'd say something like 'gimmee more money" I was told if i wanted more money i should clear the planet. My upstats meant shit.

I started saying stuff like "I think the navy uniforms are stupid. Who came up with that crap?" and really hadn't made any lasting relationships. I was dealing with an infected foot that was stinking to high heaven and i just one day up and said "oh fuck this, this is total bullshit."

And I gone. The full story is somewhere around here. Life After section i think.

[diablo]

1) mom and sister went to INT for years, no family.
2) sent to the adult RPF when I was 13 (no orders, CO CMO didn't like me)my mom never saved me or used her power to help me. I had been working at AOLA and was in affluence, being upstat. She had two people pick me up and force me out of the building.I was on suicide watch for 2 days. I wasn't allowed to call anyone.
3) went to Flordia for officer training-CO CMO sent a messeger to tear me down even though I was upstat messeger in training-doing my studies and cleaning messegers rooms and uniforms. She found out I was going to be a messeger in Flordia or go up to INT and she couldn't have that. I never really got to find out why she hated me so much.
4) started working at CC, the same CO and her messeger (Jeri Tiveron) again tried to have me removed from post . Later OSA INT wanted me to work for them, I was so excited..the CO CMO and her messeger found out, somehow got me busted down to PBC without orders. This crazy circle went on for 5 years!!!! The CO went to the RPF later and Jeri went to the RPF about 3 times and finally got off loaded. She was a very suppressive person and I truly feel she was the one feeding all kinds of shit to the CO. But the CO should have been wise to see all angles-but she just ended up being another stupid broad that was given power and abused it.
Then to make matters worse, I was dated one of her messegers!! HA HA
5) My mom wanted me to get married when I was 14 and then again at 16 so I wouldn't go out 2-D. She was willing to sign the papers.
6) My mom thought I had lost my virginity and had Dr.Denk check me.
7) No pay, no rewards, no education, screwed up childhood (about 16 years in), loss of family,sexual-physical-verbal abuse.
8) All the lies and cover ups
9) Being scared all the time. Walking on egg shells.
10) Knowing you will never be good enough and never ever qualify to be at INT.
11) Knowing the laws and rules and tech did not apply to those in PAC. You never went up the bridge. No one ever cared about the truth or how to do things properly. I use to complain to my mom that everything was correct and ethical at INT but very wrong in PAC. She told me I was nattering and being suppressive!
12) knowing my life was never going to change in the Sea Org. I knew the mother I knew before had changed along time ago and the person before me was a stranger.
13) My mind was always telling me to get out. I knew things were bad and wrong. I was willing to kill myself just to be free. I was standing at a open window frame on the 10th floor of the HGB building (when it was under construction) and thinking just a couple more steps towards the window and it would be over, I would be free, the stress was melting away at this answer. But as I stepped closer, I thought what if I only break my back or something and I'm still alive..but now unable to run away. I turned away from the window. Later I turned away from Scientology and my family.

Very warming the life in the Sea Org right? :eyeroll: (kidding). That was awful, no blame wanting to leave, actually you are pretty cool after resisting all that and not wanting to bomb it :P But yes I know was a sh*t hole. So good you are out, how are you doing today?

[free1996]

Thanks for the concern. I'm fine, I had decided to join the Army when I was 18 as it was the same as the S.O but with pay and benefits and paid education. I was getting ready to go to boot camp when a friend of mine who was also Army told me not to leave as throughout our friendship he feel in love with me. I still went to the hotel that night to leave for basic training. I realized I liked him too and told the officer I was leaving to go back home. I called him to tell him I didn't leave and we dated for 4 years and then got married and had two kids. After 10 years of marriage, I divorced him. I remarried about 3 years later, had a baby. As for education, back when I got out I had to gain credits to finish High School as the GED I did in Scientology was bogus. I went to Summer school to earn extra credits. I never thought I would go to college, but I did 3 times. I still need to go back to finish. As for work, I've done everything from banking, manager, retail, resturant, clerical.
I just bought my first house as before I was always renting. I have my friends cat who had babies!!! And then I let my other friend move in with me and she brought a giant pit bull who is a puppy!!! She tried to convience me to have him in her room. No way.
As for my family that is still in, I will always have my memories and my love for them and I've forgiven not forgotten my mom. One day soon, I plan on writing a book of my life in Scientology as I have nothing to fear and I know my truth.The only reason, I have not come out is not my fear from the church but I feel they will put alot of stress on my family. I don't want to be the reason they lost thier dream even though it is really a nightmare. After some times, the church will know that I'm totally disconnected from them that they wont try to make them "handle" me or themselves.

[beyond_horizons]

The last straw for me was after reading about the breath and scope of the information released in the Fishman documents back in the early 90's. I concluded that Hubbard’s hard core scientologist mindset are a far more danger to society!

The continual revelations coming out of that closet are a continual reminder of that notion!

:yes:

[GreyLensman]

Working two full time jobs so I could pay the bills (Org staff, and non-staff job), leaving not enough money to eat properly, spend time with friends and family. Left constantly feeling like I just wasn't doing enough.

And then having a heart attack (in part, certainly because of the stress). And then when asking to be allowed to leave staff to sort my health out, being told 'no, you should have thought about that before you signed a contract.'

So I left.

Sorry you had the heart attack, that is very scary.

I did that two jobs thing for 8 years. And was left on my own to get up the bridge despite contributing as staff because full time staff had priority. Yet there was no way I could live on that income.

I did an auditing action that went badly and four separate reviews which didn't touch on fixing it. The last straw was when the D of P indicated I was being billed for the last hours of review, despite having routed in as OT recovery, because of a mistake.

I was home four months or so later. I had determined to start working out, and had discovered exercise - I am naturally thin, and I worked physically plus the org staff late nights plus no time to eat except on the run. I started working out to gain weight. I discovered weight training. I discovered removing stress through exercise. I ate properly. I realized that after four months of just basic exchange with having a body, enough sleep, exercise and diet - I felt better than at any time in the last 30 hours of review. I realized I felt great. I looked good, healthier than ever while on staff or on lines. I was moderately happy. Never went back.

Never paid the bullshit bill either.

[RolandRB]

The B1 guys had asked me for some support in resolving an issue. I gave it, being a Flag Legionnaire and World Tour speaker. As usual. the Scilons made a complete dogs bollocks of the matter and looking for a scapegoat decided to expel me with a ludicrous and libellous expulsion order.

I looked at it and decided that in order to resolve the matter, the Scilon management needed to do a full liability formula. The policy was never to spologise (Hubbard ser fac - one of them). So, we parted company.

Life moves on. Of course, these drones (mostly untrained) had no concept of what happens to a person when you give them a wrong item.

Newton's Law of Motion applies, over and over and over.:yes: :yes: :whistling:

Hate to be a pedant but.........

"dogs bollocks" is normally used to signify "the best".

[Lee_from_phx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

Adderall came out in 1996.

I guess it wasn't Adderall then since the time frame was 1976 or so.

The fact that I can't remember the name of the medication they had me on should give you a good idea of just how irrelevant I consider the entire issue to be.

Pediatricians don't set out to give children "bad" drugs. There is no psychiatric conspiracy to destroy the world. Hubbard was a fool and a sociopathic liar.

[Dulloldfart]

Hate to be a pedant but.........

"dogs bollocks" is normally used to signify "the best".

Maybe the man eats testicles for breakfast and got confused.

Paul

[Bikerchick]

My last straw(s) were

1) having married an OT who was not only a liar but also unable to produce to make any $$ and ended up ripping me off for over $15,000.

2) I had beacome very sick, when married to him and being at Flag, and no one there knew what to do (I didn't have any $ so there was no handling)

3) finally waking up to the fact that with LRH dead this ship had no rudder, sane or otherwise.

4) i wanted my freedom to be who i am and when i was getting ready to leave Flag I was terrified that i wouldn't F/N at the end of a class and would not get a ride to the airport.

WHEW, am i glad i finally grabbed hold of my life and got away from all that bull shit. A couple years ago i threw away every book, all tech volumes, all admin volumes. It felt GREAT.

I could make a broom out of all the straws.

[DartSmohen]

My last straw(s) were

1) having married an OT who was not only a liar but also unable to produce to make any $$ and ended up ripping me off for over $15,000.

2) I had beacome very sick, when married to him and being at Flag, and no one there knew what to do (I didn't have any $ so there was no handling)

3) finally waking up to the fact that with LRH dead this ship had no rudder, sane or otherwise.

4) i wanted my freedom to be who i am and when i was getting ready to leave Flag I was terrified that i wouldn't F/N at the end of a class and would not get a ride to the airport.

WHEW, am i glad i finally grabbed hold of my life and got away from all that bull shit. A couple years ago i threw away every book, all tech volumes, all admin volumes. It felt GREAT.

I could make a broom out of all the straws.

Glad to hear you broke away.

But, have you let go of the emotions and residual charge?

DS

[Bikerchick]

DS,
no i haven't. and thanks so much for even asking. I haven't had anywhere else to turn about all of this for a lot of years.

I didn't realize that until i started writing on these posts. I have alot of pent up charge and upset about this stuff. I think, little by little, i can let it go. Scn took up about 10 or so years of my life, all dynamics. I put alot into it. I trusted LRH and the tech and thought it would make life better. I almost died because i had such a horrible medical condition which was untreated because i trusted the tech and a couple of OTs to help me.

[Emma]

Welcome bikerchick, I'm so glad you found us.

Take your time, put your feet up and get comfy.

We are all here for each other.

[Pixie]

DS,
no i haven't. and thanks so much for even asking. I haven't had anywhere else to turn about all of this for a lot of years.

I didn't realize that until i started writing on these posts. I have alot of pent up charge and upset about this stuff. I think, little by little, i can let it go. Scn took up about 10 or so years of my life, all dynamics. I put alot into it. I trusted LRH and the tech and thought it would make life better. I almost died because i had such a horrible medical condition which was untreated because i trusted the tech and a couple of OTs to help me.

Welcome Bikerchick! I too was in for ten years, and like you, gave my heart and soul. I've only been posting a few months here and wow what a difference! I used to shake and cry every time I posted for about the first month, then I began to relax, it does get easier, however, the thing I wanted to say is this, what helped me a lot was reading some of the stories of what others went through. Some were in thirty years or more, so just imagine that, we got away lightly - relatively speaking, so it helped me to thank my lucky stars. :yes:

The sense of betrayel is the hard part, but keep posting, like Emma says, we are all here for each other and I can honestly say, that this forum has saved my sanity, and possibly my life.

:thumbsup:

[Voltaire's Child]

I recently met with a couple of exes and one of the questions that came up was, what was it that made you to finally leave the CofS?

Personally speaking I was aware that the CofS was a cult from very early on, but it didn't seem to matter to me. I was still curious and I loved the tech. The moment I realised I had to leave (although I thought it could be done standardly) was when I was at the airport reading a novel by Terry Prattchet and when my flight was called, I started counting the pages on my novel as I would do every single day in study while on staff. At that moment I thought, "oops, I think I have overdone this game. There's no way they are having my mind."

Things went downhill after that as when I told the ED I was leaving staff I became persona non grata overnight. :omg: :omg: :omg:

I'd already figure out that it was abusive and problematic but I'd hoped, then, to stay and work within CofS to bring about change. This was not a realistic hope but it's the one I had.

The reason I left was because, at my penultimate handling, I was being shown contempt while they were ordering me around and trying to get me to do things that would ultimately have cause CofS to receive more of MY money and MY time. That was it. The contempt.

[Lee_from_phx]

I also got rid of all my clam books, with one notable exception. I still have a complete set of the "old" tech vols.

Had I known that Der Dwarfenfuhrer was executing the Orwellian game plan of rewriting history in the basic books, I would have held on to everything. Not because I believe it has any value, but in order to preserve the historical record, which is why I held on to the tech vols.

[Cat's Squirrel]

Der Dwarfenfuhrer LOL

There wasn't a "last straw" for me. I only joined for a couple of courses and never intended to stay permanently (or even long). In any case I never took it seriously as the "only way".

I finished my Comm Course and immediately the ED and his partner (very nice actually) tried to get me to sign up to going Clear. I declined; they wanted £12,000 for the privilege. I could have afforded it back then but I thought the price was excessive.

I returned a month later to buy a tape for my stepdad (which he already had as it turned out so I kept it for myself). Complained at the price, but was told "it's what's in 'em." Cobblers.

Haven't set foot in the place since, though I had a brief conversation with the ED on a coach trip.

That was it.

[Boojuum]

Let's see. I routed out because I couldn't raise my family on $10 a week. It was a very messy cycle, somehow I didn't get declared. The years went by with me paying on a large "freeloader debt" (what a term! Why didn't they call it a "Weasly Backslider Scumbag Traitor Debt") I finally got up the courage to read "Madman or Messiah". I took it out of the library, couldn't put it down and the pieces started to fall into place. Then a close friend attended a Cult Awareness Network meeting and told me it (SCN) was all BS and people from a variety of different cults experienced the same stuff--ScioTech used similar techniques to produce the same results--extremely devoted people who experienced euphoric practices with a secret source. After quizzing the friend for days, I felt as though my mind deconstructed tons of weird Scio ideas that I'd held in place for years and years. Wow, did that ever feel great. So I read more and more and more, threw out the books, stopped using the language and it was pretty much over. The key thing is that I could see the personality of LRH coming through in all the anti-Scio literature. I felt I could understand the type of person he was. The testimonies of those around him repeated the same types of stories over and over. He wasn't the type of guy that I should trust with my life.

There was no single incident. I was very much a true believer for many years after being off staff even with no decent reason to believe that ScioWorld would ever help me.

One of the biggest issues for me was this: it never made sense that LRH wouldn't take the time to visit orgs. I felt certain that he knew what was going on in most organizations, tech-wise and admin-wise. With a few simple PL's or HCOB's he could have resolved large areas of confusion. Why was the time of staff members so dispensable? Every few years, some bulletin or policy would pop up and tell us what idiots we were for failing to apply some other policy or bulletin and SP's were behind it. I noticed a repeated pattern of simple issues turning into huge problems. I couldn't let LRH off the hook. Other problems that never seemed to go away were the trickle, at best, of new people coming in. Nobody wanted the most valuable tech on the planet? I'd been in struggling wog organizations but the Scio orgs seemed absolutely desparate.

The heavy ethics seemed simply destructive. It was obvious that the orgs were hurting themselves by disciplining the most valuable execs and staff.

It's great to be out and most of the time, I couldn't really tell you why--the free time is nice, having money is nice, not having to repeat the same phrase for multiple hours at a time is pretty cool--I think the best thing is being able to resolve a problem without wheeling out some pre-programmed auto-solution exercise, "Hmmm. Am I confronting this? What condition is it in? False Data? Is the communication formula being applied? What tone level? Any out ruds? What are the outpoints? What is the Why? Suppressive connections?"

Ichkkkk! The pre-programmed, auto-solution machine is gone, in the past and I am very, very happy about that.

[sallydannce]

Let's see. I routed out because I couldn't raise my family on $10 a week. It was a very messy cycle, somehow I didn't get declared. The years went by with me paying on a large "freeloader debt" (what a term! Why didn't they call it a "Weasly Backslider Scumbag Traitor Debt") I finally got up the courage to read "Madman or Messiah". I took it out of the library, couldn't put it down and the pieces started to fall into place. Then a close friend attended a Cult Awareness Network meeting and told me it (SCN) was all BS and people from a variety of different cults experienced the same stuff--ScioTech used similar techniques to produce the same results--extremely devoted people who experienced euphoric practices with a secret source. After quizzing the friend for days, I felt as though my mind deconstructed tons of weird Scio ideas that I'd held in place for years and years. Wow, did that ever feel great. So I read more and more and more, threw out the books, stopped using the language and it was pretty much over. The key thing is that I could see the personality of LRH coming through in all the anti-Scio literature. I felt I could understand the type of person he was. The testimonies of those around him repeated the same types of stories over and over. He wasn't the type of guy that I should trust with my life.

There was no single incident. I was very much a true believer for many years after being off staff even with no decent reason to believe that ScioWorld would ever help me.

One of the biggest issues for me was this: it never made sense that LRH wouldn't take the time to visit orgs. I felt certain that he knew what was going on in most organizations, tech-wise and admin-wise. With a few simple PL's or HCOB's he could have resolved large areas of confusion. Why was the time of staff members so dispensable? Every few years, some bulletin or policy would pop up and tell us what idiots we were for failing to apply some other policy or bulletin and SP's were behind it. I noticed a repeated pattern of simple issues turning into huge problems. I couldn't let LRH off the hook. Other problems that never seemed to go away were the trickle, at best, of new people coming in. Nobody wanted the most valuable tech on the planet? I'd been in struggling wog organizations but the Scio orgs seemed absolutely desparate.

The heavy ethics seemed simply destructive. It was obvious that the orgs were hurting themselves by disciplining the most valuable execs and staff.

It's great to be out and most of the time, I couldn't really tell you why--the free time is nice, having money is nice, not having to repeat the same phrase for multiple hours at a time is pretty cool--I think the best thing is being able to resolve a problem without wheeling out some pre-programmed auto-solution exercise, "Hmmm. Am I confronting this? What condition is it in? False Data? Is the communication formula being applied? What tone level? Any out ruds? What are the outpoints? What is the Why? Suppressive connections?"

Ichkkkk! The pre-programmed, auto-solution machine is gone, in the past and I am very, very happy about that.

Now this I totally relate to! Well put Boojuum!

I too could never reconcile why the masses did not want the "most valuable tech on the planet". And why were the orgs only a bit busier on Thursday mornings? So many questions I had which I just kept tightly suppressed.

[Free to shine]

Ichkkkk! The pre-programmed, auto-solution machine is gone, in the past and I am very, very happy about that.

Yes, yes, YES!! :happydance:

[Boojuum]

I haven't said this for a while but it's GREAT to be out. I mean I LOVE being out of ScioWorld. It's great to be out. It's great to be out. It's great to be out! There!

[sallydannce]

I haven't said this for a while but it's GREAT to be out. I mean I LOVE being out of ScioWorld. It's great to be out. It's great to be out. It's great to be out! There!

:yes: :yes: :yes: :woohoo: :iagree: :iagree:

[Zander]

I haven't said this for a while but it's GREAT to be out. I mean I LOVE being out of ScioWorld. It's great to be out. It's great to be out. It's great to be out! There!


Yeah it's great to be out, it IS! :happydance:

Here's to life! :thumbsup:

Zander

[byte301]

Sorry, sort of off topic! :omg: I am putting my whole elron flubbard library on ebay in the next 2 weeks or so. hahaha The whole kit and kaboodle from DMSMH to a complete set of the red and green vols. Oh and a tech dictionary hahaha AND The Hymn of Asia, all the crappy sci fi...EVERYTHING! I'd sell my e-meter too but I just left it at the org when I walked out, plus I hear they pull those off ebay anyway. :angry:

I am gonna be rich, rich I tell ya! :hysterical: Ok, maybe just well-to-do. :neener: But I am sure freeing up a lot of space I can now use for something GOOD. And yes, it is great to be out. TOTALLY OUT!




:byefly:

[happynow]

hey byte301, I sold a bunch of books on ebay about 12 years ago and some people got in a bit of a bidding war on it and I ended up with quite a bit of money. I don't know how it is now though.

Also, I just had to say- real feedom is fantastic:happydance: A nice bed with high thread count sheets is fantastic:yes: Real friends are fantastic:dance3: My husband is hysterically funny and that's fantastic:hifive: My freakin dog is fantastic:p Having a job that you do well and get paid well for and nobody ever yells at you is fantastic:thumbsup: Volunteering to actually help people who actually need help is fantastic:handinhand: Giving money to good causes that actually help people and animals and the planet is fantastic:buzzin: Knowing that I won't be thrown away when I'm old is fantastic:yes: OK enough of my fantastic kick.:tobed:

[byte301]

hey byte301, I sold a bunch of books on ebay about 12 years ago and some people got in a bit of a bidding war on it and I ended up with quite a bit of money. I don't know how it is now though.

Also, I just had to say- real feedom is fantastic:happydance: A nice bed with high thread count sheets is fantastic:yes: Real friends are fantastic:dance3: My husband is hysterically funny and that's fantastic:hifive: My freakin dog is fantastic:p Having a job that you do well and get paid well for and nobody ever yells at you is fantastic:thumbsup: Volunteering to actually help people who actually need help is fantastic:handinhand: Giving money to good causes that actually help people and animals and the planet is fantastic:buzzin: Knowing that I won't be thrown away when I'm old is fantastic:yes: OK enough of my fantastic kick.:tobed:

happynow, can there ever be too much fantastic? NO! lol I have 2 cats, one is a big yellow and white striped mellow male and the other is a little 3 legged, crooked tailed tri-color female. They are both fantastic. lol Oh my husband isn't fantastic he's just nuts. hahaha Yeah, it's nice not to have to hear "Make it go right", blah blah blah. NO U make it go right for a change $cientology! And I agree about the sheets!:D And having decent meals and not having to rush to the org after you eat. Knowing that you don't have to be on course all day Saturday. Oh, a million things. Being able to go to a REAL doctor and actually take medicine. Yeah, volunteering for a real cause. That is really fantastic. Being able to buy Christmas presents for your friends and family cause you didn't give all your money to the org! Knowing that your friends are really friends and won't dump you for a cult.
Yeah, isn't sp'ism fantastic?!

p.s. I hope I do make some money on these stupid books. God knows I paid enough for them and I didn't see any complete set of the red and green volumes, so we'll see. Anyway, I just want em out of my universe! :p

[Dulloldfart]

Sorry, sort of off topic! :omg: I am putting my whole elron flubbard library on ebay in the next 2 weeks or so. hahaha The whole kit and kaboodle from DMSMH to a complete set of the red and green vols. Oh and a tech dictionary hahaha AND The Hymn of Asia, all the crappy sci fi...EVERYTHING! I'd sell my e-meter too but I just left it at the org when I walked out, plus I hear they pull those off ebay anyway. :angry:

I am gonna be rich, rich I tell ya! :hysterical: Ok, maybe just well-to-do. :neener: But I am sure freeing up a lot of space I can now use for something GOOD. And yes, it is great to be out. TOTALLY OUT!

:byefly:

Suggestion: look at the completed listings on eBay for Scientology and plan accordingly. New copies of the books, the Basics, 18 books in shrinkwrap, are going for between $20 and $56 for the SET, i.e. a buck or so each. I would suggest selling the whole set of red vols as one item; the set of green vols as one item; the tech dictionary as one item; Hymn of Asia as one item, at least. I don't know about the old books.

I'd suggest at least trying to get the meter back, as it should be worth a few hundred bucks if a Mark V up to $1500 maybe if a VII, and in working order. "Worth" as in what you could get for it. Ebay is currently allowing meter sales, it seems. The completed listings show several June auctions that ran their course: a VI sold for $625; a VI for $450; a Quantum for $1,425; plus a couple that ended with the item unsold.

Paul

[feline]

When you put your stuff up for auction, post a link here and I will post it on Enturbulation. There are people there looking for the original books.

My fantastic cats say "Meow" to your fantastic cats.

[Zander]

I can't believe that I actually had a complete set of the 'old' tech volumes - never used - and when they were replaced with 'new' versions in the 90's I paid for those and simply tossed the old ones away because they were 'out-tech'. Shoulda got my money back.

The 'new' versions have also never been used.

A lot of trees must have been used up that way.

Zander

[byte301]

Suggestion: look at the completed listings on eBay for Scientology and plan accordingly. New copies of the books, the Basics, 18 books in shrinkwrap, are going for between $20 and $56 for the SET, i.e. a buck or so each. I would suggest selling the whole set of red vols as one item; the set of green vols as one item; the tech dictionary as one item; Hymn of Asia as one item, at least. I don't know about the old books.

I'd suggest at least trying to get the meter back, as it should be worth a few hundred bucks if a Mark V up to $1500 maybe if a VII, and in working order. "Worth" as in what you could get for it. Ebay is currently allowing meter sales, it seems. The completed listings show several June auctions that ran their course: a VI sold for $625; a VI for $450; a Quantum for $1,425; plus a couple that ended with the item unsold.

Paul

Thanks for the advice, Paul. Yeah, I am going to do some research before I list them. They were all bought around 1975 and are in excellent condition. I did plan on selling the red and green vols. by themselves and thanks for the tip on the Tech Dict. and Hymn of Asia. I left the cult 20 years ago so I think the e-meter is a goner. :no: Plus the current org doesn't know me and I don't want them to so I wouldn't even bother trying to get it back. Oh well.

I have been thinking of doing this for a couple of years...time is ripe! :happydance:

[byte301]

Feline, I will be sure and do that. All my books are the old ones! LOL my 3 legged cat is turning out to be quite the little hunter. Yuck ,3 poor birds in one week! She is 3 yrs. old and I adopted her in Jan. She had never been outside before we got her. She is a wholly terror! :D My cats meowed back at your's Feline. lol


Zander, Wow, too bad you tossed them! Stupid cult and their money making schemes. :angry:

[quietheart]

I agree, everyone on enturb would be salivating at the chance to get hold of some of the old volumes. I am myself, but I'm also broke. I hope you have a great sell byte.
Angl

[Dulloldfart]

I agree, everyone on enturb would be salivating at the chance to get hold of some of the old volumes.

Haven't Wikileaks got hold of a soft copy? It's the sort of thing that floats around Russian servers every now and then. I just checked on a BitTorrent tracker site and there seem to be copies available there too. I didn't download to check.

Paul

[quietheart]

I probably have a downloaded copy, I really need to clean my computer and organize it, lol. What I meant was everyone would love to have a printing of it so nobody could say it was a doctored copy or such as we know they would without actual book in hand. I guess I should have explained that better in the first post :) .
Angl

[Dulloldfart]

What I meant was everyone would love to have a printing of it so nobody could say it was a doctored copy or such as we know they would without actual book in hand.

Oh, I see. I doubt it would be a problem. It's not like the OT3 pack that was never officially published. There have been thousands of sets of tech volumes sold, and I don't think the CofS would deny that such-and-such a bulletin was ever issued when it was printed as such and is in so many hands.

Paul

[quietheart]

I still consider myself new, only been involved since late Jan. or early Feb., so I wasn't sure what is considered general knowledge and what isn't :blush: . Truthfully I've never stepped foot in an Org, so I don't know what all their bookstore sells to the general public. I'm glad these board are around, as I tell my children "Knowledge is power.":yes: I also try to teach them to be open-minded, something I've heard the "church" frowns upon :confused2: . I never really understood that :no: .
Angl
PS I'm learning to use the smilies, hopefully it'll help prevent confusion :) .

[Dulloldfart]

OK, Angl. The CofS "open-minded" means, to quote Google Groups:



(From "Modern Management Technology Defined" which is a religious
book ("This is part of the religious literature and works of the
Founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard".))

"OPEN MIND, persons who "have an open mind" but no personal hopes
or desires for auditing or knowingness should be ignored, as they
really don't have an open mind at all, but a lack of ability to
decide about things and are seldom found to be very responsible
and waste anyone's efforts "to convince them." (HCO PL 27 Oct 64)"

In practice, it equates to "doesn't agree with Hubbard" if one needs a bad label for someone and no more obvious one is available.

Paul

[quietheart]

That's a lot different from the definition i was raised with. Here's the one I've always used:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/open-minded
open-minded - willing to consider new ideas; unprejudiced

Thesaurus
open-minded - ready to entertain new ideas; "an open-minded curiosity"; "open-minded impartiality"
broad-minded - inclined to respect views and beliefs that differ from your own; "a judge who is broad-minded but even-handed"

[Cat's Squirrel]

I've got some duplicate books (mine and my stepdad's) that I'd be willing to part with for a small price. Need the room, so if anyone's in the UK (because postage would make any international address prohibitively expensive) and is interested in some of the basic books, feel free to pm me.

They include a Tech dictionary, a minister's handbook and a book of basics (0-8).

[paradox]

That's a lot different from the definition i was raised with. Here's the one I've always used:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/open-minded
open-minded - willing to consider new ideas; unprejudiced

Thesaurus
open-minded - ready to entertain new ideas; "an open-minded curiosity"; "open-minded impartiality"
broad-minded - inclined to respect views and beliefs that differ from your own; "a judge who is broad-minded but even-handed"

Perhaps this fair use quote might give even a more enlightening clue to as to how it's interpreted by a REAL :whistling: scientologist (bold emphasis added):



When somebody enrols, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe -- never permit an "open-minded" approach. If they're going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they're aboard, and if they're aboard, they're here on the same terms as the rest of us -- win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist dilettantes have ever made anything. It's a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive -- and even they have a hard time. We'll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don't make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she'll win and we'll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is, "You're here so you're a Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than incapable."

http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=9


best,
pattycake ... :banghead: er ... paradox

[byte301]

I agree, everyone on enturb would be salivating at the chance to get hold of some of the old volumes. I am myself, but I'm also broke. I hope you have a great sell byte.
Angl

Thanks anonangl, I bet we will be seeing more and more of these books going up on ebay. :coolwink:

[byte301]

Perhaps this fair use quote might give even a more enlightening clue to as to how it's interpreted by a REAL :whistling: scientologist (bold emphasis added):



best,
pattycake ... :banghead: er ... paradox

Yeah, they pretty much got that dedicated glare down. But the letting em out fast remark? Uhh... not so much. Rather dead then incapable? Well, they are really doing their best on the dead part.

[quietheart]

Yeah, "We'd rather have you dead than incapable." is truly scary to me :omg: . I hope I don't offend anyone, but I've experienced the same attitude in various churches I've been to regarding their beliefs being the only way :ohmy: , but not to such a degree as CoS :no: . That's part of why I left that faith behind when I became an adult. I think I need to go back to my lurking corner though, I don't wanna derail y'alls thread :blush: . Thanks for all the info. though, it helps when you know what the thinking is behind the behaviors :yes: .
Angl

[paradox]

Yeah, they pretty much got that dedicated glare down. But the letting em out fast remark? Uhh... not so much. Rather dead then incapable? Well, they are really doing their best on the dead part.

Yeah, what a crock. That giving the tiger a bad-rap part really gets me. Gimme a break. Tiggers and other self-noble creatures made over into perverted symbols people such as hubbard like to abscond with and use in their "dog-eat-dog" macho perception of the world, "eye of the tiger" and all that crap; but not unlike my canine pal, they actually spend ... what? ... 80-90%? ... of their time sleepin', layin', and lazin' about. Playin' with and watchin' over the kiddos, or havin' a good roll in the dust. How much of their total day is spent in the raw nitty-gritty, violent survival mode? They certainly don't have some perceived "tough and dedicated" glare (ala a rabid DMiscarriage) shared as a species. The majority of the time they are just quiety absorped in self-repose, just purely being what they are. And when they do go into "survival" mode, it ... unlike our own species ... is done with no malicious intent. Well, except perhaps the increasing neurotic instances of aggression against people; contagion of aberration may have some validity to it, not to mention the sheer fact of the territorial encroachment that's going down, poaching etc etc. [/rant]

[thetanic]

Strangely, there wasn't a last straw for me, no single incident that could be repaired.

Throughout most of my staff days, I worked closely with one person. My big withhold (and I don't believe I ever gave it up) was that I was in love with this person. Leaving my post or leaving Scn meant losing that everyday contact.

Eventually, the outpoints of the org exceeded the amount I cared, and I left. And so did the other person, after a while.

No, I never did anything about that.

Sad story, isn't it?

[byte301]

Yeah, what a crock. That giving the tiger a bad-rap part really gets me. Gimme a break. Tiggers and other self-noble creatures made over into perverted symbols people such as hubbard like to abscond with and use in their "dog-eat-dog" macho perception of the world, "eye of the tiger" and all that crap; but not unlike my canine pal, they actually spend ... what? ... 80-90%? ... of their time sleepin', layin', and lazin' about. Playin' with and watchin' over the kiddos, or havin' a good roll in the dust. How much of their total day is spent in the raw nitty-gritty, violent survival mode? They certainly don't have some perceived "tough and dedicated" glare (ala a rabid DMiscarriage) shared as a species. The majority of the time they are just quiety absorped in self-repose, just purely being what they are. And when they do go into "survival" mode, it ... unlike our own species ... is done with no malicious intent. Well, except perhaps the increasing neurotic instances of aggression against people; contagion of aberration may have some validity to it, not to mention the sheer fact of the territorial encroachment that's going down, poaching etc etc. [/rant]

How did I miss this post??? It was great!

[byte301]

Strangely, there wasn't a last straw for me, no single incident that could be repaired.

Throughout most of my staff days, I worked closely with one person. My big withhold (and I don't believe I ever gave it up) was that I was in love with this person. Leaving my post or leaving Scn meant losing that everyday contact.

Eventually, the outpoints of the org exceeded the amount I cared, and I left. And so did the other person, after a while.

No, I never did anything about that.

Sad story, isn't it?

It is a sad story but most of our stories are sad. Sorry about the other person thetanic. Those things that could have been are some of the saddest.:no:

[Pascal]

I got in ethics trouble with idiots in some backwater Org while training to be a mission ED. I asked RTC for help as they had done in the past for me. I was ignored. I asked again, same thing. Yet again.

I decided RTC was incompetent and decided to investigate DM and the Church. It was like opening Pandora's Box.

My only recourse was to leave the Church and vow to reform it once my horsepower was rehabbed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7zhA5ADQnA

[Boldgirl]

I asked RTC for help as they had done in the past for me. I was ignored. I asked again, same thing. Yet again.

I decided RTC was incompetent and decided to investigate DM and the Church. It was like opening Pandora's Box.



Although I didnt investigate :duh: , I went to RTC several times...nothing. i though this is strange...why no action, why no communication, why no change? I tried several times on several issues....nothing. I thought it was because 'they were handling it behind the scenes' and that it was policy not to hear back. Again, how 'reasonable' we get when our gut tells us otherwise. :confused2:

[Pascal]

Although I didnt investigate :duh: , I went to RTC several times...nothing. i though this is strange...why no action, why no communication, why no change? I tried several times on several issues....nothing. I thought it was because 'they were handling it behind the scenes' and that it was policy not to hear back. Again, how 'reasonable' we get when our gut tells us otherwise. :confused2:

I had gotten help once from RTC in the past. Probably when there WAS an RTC. Now everyone is in the SP hall. Later when confronting OSA on my posts here I was told that "Sometimes it's better not to communicate". :duh:

[Iknowtoomuch]

I had gotten help once from RTC in the past. Probably when there WAS an RTC. Now everyone is in the SP hall. Later when confronting OSA on my posts here I was told that "Sometimes it's better not to communicate". :duh:

I'd say it was because they were constantly getting these letters for help and didn't know what to do about it.:whistling:

[Pascal]

I'd say it was because they were constantly getting these letters for help and didn't know what to do about it.:whistling:

Yep, DM in his kick to run the CoS has forgotten his own post.

[Boldgirl]

One day....when the big raid comes of DM's quarters and home....they will find them....the stacks of KR's written and stuck in a corner.

[Pascal]

One day....when the big raid comes of DM's quarters and home....they will find them....the stacks of KR's written and stuck in a corner.

Along his stack of Juggz magazines.

[Boldgirl]

One day....when the big raid comes of DM's quarters and home....they will find them....the stacks of KR's written and stuck in a corner.


Along his stack of Juggz magazines.

and 'Teenage Ninja Turtle' as well as superhero comic books he has cut and pasted his face on to. :coolwink:

[Giuseppe]

and 'Teenage Ninja Turtle' :coolwink:

Rule 34. google it.

[duddins]

I never got to post my Last Straw.

Well it is time I do, although some of you have already heard it.

1985......after the Cont won the Bday game, DM sent his little WDC Mission down to Mexico to recruit for his Int Base.

They took off with the EDs of the two most productive orgs in the Cont.
One being Pablo Lobato, whom I hear was later sent to the SP Hole, and is now 'who knows where.'

Cont crashes, naturally. I, being CO over those orgs complain that they were not properly replaced.

Mission arrives and I am then ripped from post for a Comm Ev. that stated I was Out 2D. Such bullshit.

I was found to be not guilty and told I was being posted at WUS.

My mind was tormented. I felt so betrayed. My life was established in Latam and I was not given a choice. I could not take it. I felt alone in the vast universe. Even my best friend would not listen to my story.

I arranged an escape and blew back to Mexico City where I lived as an Ex for two more years.

According to the affidavit of Jessie Prince, DM ordered his thugs to inflict violence upon the Exes in Mexico City. Two were hospitalized and I got off with merely a death threat. :furious:

In a nut shell the last straw was:

Watching that raving fool rip apart the orgs in Mexico City while they were in a win, and instead of taking it like a man, he makes someone else his scapegoat.

I wanted nothing to do with it.

On top of that, he sends thugs to beat us into submission?????:angry:

As I now know, DM must use violence or bribe money to get what he wants so none of this should come as a surprise.

[Wirestripper]

Rule 34. google it.

Ahahahah...Rule 34!

example:http://c.imagehost.org/t/0480/DMRule_34_AT-ATs.jpg (http://c.imagehost.org/view/0480/DMRule_34_AT-ATs.jpg)

[cinamingrl]

My 'last straw' was when the moron ED issued an interrogatory on me. I was refusing to do a job on a post in Treasury that I wasn't trained on. She was bullying me and had an axe to grind as her husband had a thing for me that was very well known to all staff. (and her).:eyeroll:

[thetanic]

My 'last straw' was when the moron ED issued an interrogatory on me. I was refusing to do a job on a post in Treasury that I wasn't trained on. She was bullying me and had an axe to grind as her husband had a thing for me that was very well known to all staff. (and her).:eyeroll:

Treas has the least interchangeable posts with any other division, too. Ugh.

[cinamingrl]

Treas has the least interchangeable posts with any other division, too. Ugh.

YEs, I didn't know that though. I really think that she just thought I was so smart, like smarter than she was (the EDD, and I was). Even if I could have done that post, I had it by that time. I just wanted my life back and to get a real job. And that I did.

I think interrogatories are really cruel. They aren't the government. But they have what a think psychologists call 'delusions of grandeur' and lots of management are 'megalomaniacs'. These are words that I learned about after I left, when I was free to get a real education. :whistling:

[grundy]

I keep trying to have a last straw .. but the Cof$ keeps breaking it.

[Iknowtoomuch]

I keep trying to have a last straw .. but the Cof$ keeps breaking it.

OMG, funny,sad and so true all at the same time.:hysterical: :no: :thumbsup:

[Lovesnightsky]

I keep trying to have a last straw .. but the Cof$ keeps breaking it.

LOL
yeah, spot on.

[programmer_guy]

The last straw for me was when I could finally see (admit to myself) that I would continue to get very little pay for long hours.

I looked out the little restroom window at the world outside and knew that I could do better with my life.

[scooter]

The last straw for me was finding out the Co$ was still regging donos for Basics books editions for libraries when they knew most were being trashed when they arrived at the libraries.

And then continuing to find out how many SO members actually do know about the scam but try to justify it.

I could cop the injustices on me, the stupidities etc. but overt criminality was more than my brainwashed former self could stick with.

[uniquemand]

BUMP* I want more last straws!

[ULRC/S]

I was on my NOTs at AOLA and one morning my auditor looked like he'd been on an allnight binge. I didn't let him start session but questioned him until he told me the whole org had been up all night doing mest work - and he hadn't gotten any sleep at all. I felt this was total insanity as I was paying for him some $500/hour, and they pulled this stunt on all their deleivery staff. I signed myself out on a "win break" to give him some respite, and didn't renew my contract when it came up at the end of that year.

Regards, Allen

[I told you I was trouble]

Being introduced to xenu and having to stay and pretend to take it seriously and spend weeks 'auditing BT's' was the last straw for me, I was seriously annoyed and spent most of my time in quiet shock trying to work out what was actually going on ... I kept thinking it was a joke or some kind of test of my commitment (prior to being given the real OT 3 pack) or something!

What a waste of time and energy and money, or as Panda would say ... "how embarrassment" ...


:ohmy:

[MAX YOUR CREDIT]

One morning I woke up from a sweaty nightmare and asked myself... Is it going to be like this for the rest of my life???.... All I wanted to BE-DO-and-HAVE was a working actor and didn't want to disseminate Scientology through the arts or be the next Tom Cruise... as I was told by my KTL Sup... "we're trying to make more Tom Cruises", she says. I said, "FUCK THAT, how can you possibly make more Tom Crusies if you have actors chained to the chair 25 to 40 hours a week?? Give me a break!" :duh:

There were so many last straws for me, I kept on giving myself an excuse not to blow but eventually I did. Thanks to all the ex-scientologist who have shared their stories on message boards and Jason Beghe. By the way, I learned about Jason's departure when I was getting a pedicure and catching up to the latest gossip. That's the only time I have time to read tabloid magazines during my pedicure sessions! :p I remember reading he had left the church and next thing I knew I'm watching his YOUTUBE video. :D

Last straws:
1. My FSM's of 17 years were delusional- Old School OT's
2. Told by my course sups to put my bridge first and career second
3. Asked by my FSM's if I had given fellatio (blow job) to whom I was dating at the time. I KID YOU NOT. I thought that was weird especially coming from a 50 something year old woman.
4. When I was told by my course-sup that I owe her time for missed course periods.... "I don't owe you shit! And I control my time", I said.
5. Apparently I was out/int one time, a few weeks later I'm not... who decides that, by the way?
6. When I was R-factored that I had to do the int rundown and did not have the funds to do it, it was suggested to me by a course sup to sell my car and buy a cheaper car. :duh:
7. Every time I would share an acting career win with my FSM's they would reply with, "How much money are you getting paid" and "Don't forget to put money on your lifetime membership".
8. Celebrity Center staff would call my FSM's and tell them that they heard I had booked some big acting jobs and so that would mean I have money....Ring, ring, ring... Hi it's your FSM's we heard you booked an acting job? :melodramatic:
9. Young vulnerable actresses who come from trust funds put it all on their "auditors package" just so the money sits there for eternity and never gets touched, with the purchase of two FUCKEN e-meters... in case on brakes during session. :duh:
10. Artists new to Scientology and regging them right away for the Sea Org. :duh:
11. Or aspiring actors just off the Greyhound bus responding to an ad on "BACKSTAGE WEST"-- local entertainment industry trade for acting jobs- to attend a seminar at Celebrity Center.... on how to get started in the business and book acting work.... Later leading to joining the cult and no career. I've seen this happen a lot.
12. Asking non-celebrity actors- the nobodies- to volunteer their time for something celebrity center has going on... "It's for the greatest good" and making you feel guilty or like an asshole for not doing it.
13. Observing your friends being manipulated to giving up all the money you have to do the bridge when knowing they do not have the money and then putting it all on credit cards and unable to make credit card payments; One because you do not have a job or two you have a job but don't make enough money to pay the minimum monthly payments and three you can't do the bridge (auditing or course) because you have to get a 2nd job to pay the credit cards and survive. And there's no time for career because you have been convinced that the bridge is first. I know actors who call themselves actors and are now in there 40's and have never really gotten out of non-e because they believe they need more bridge :omg:
14. Having the regges encourage you to BORROW money from your boyfriend, friends and family.
15. Sea Org members ganging up on actors/musicians/photographers and using force communication and reality to join the Sea Org.
16. Being regged by Greg Leclaire to join the Sea Org. I remember him saying to me, "if you haven't made it now as a well known actor you're never going to make it, so why not join the Sea Org."
17. Being accused of looking at confidential material on the internet.... when I didn't.
18. Getting taken off of course when I was doing well and winning for an interview with the cramming officer to see if I was lying about looking at stuff on the internet... and having him dope off while behind the e-meter. You can tell he was sleep deprived.
19. Finally-Finally-Finally.... I was under a lot of mental and psychological stress from so much shit that was going on with me and CCI that I got very ill... their solution was to be on course! :duh: And when I went to the examiner to "its it" to him of what was been happening to my body and manifestations... in the middle of me speaking, the examiner cuts my communication and shows me to the door and I said, "uhm, I'm not done yet" he says, "oh, ok... continue". So I continue, but by that time I'm a little pist off already, I loose my train of thought. I put the cans down and I said, "I thought I was supposed to communicate all that is happening and give details of everything thats going on in my life so that I can get the correct program from the C/S, is there a time limit of how long I'm suppose to be on the e-meter with you?"... The Examiner says, "yeah, the thing is its Thursday almost 2:00PM and I have stats to get in and completions to get through in and out". I said, fuck you and your stats! :angry:

I never stepped foot in the org after that. :)

[Zinjifar]

Thank you for your Success Story! :)

Zinj

[Ho Tai]

My last straw was being told to handle or disconnect from a family member who never expressed any negativity toward Scn. My regret is that I did not act on earlier incidents that should have been last straws - endless Idle Org regging; endless regging by MAAs, auditors, Ds of P etc. at Flag; seeing people being coached on how to go way farther into debt than they could possible handle so they could make more and bigger donations. :no:

[Tiger Lily]

For me it was the Basics. I had believed the "Orgs will boom" line too many times already, and there was an obvious lie there, because all materials had been certified to have been verified "on source" at a previous event. Not to mention the fact that if it was true, and management had known that the basics where "wrong" for years, why did they keep selling them ,and selling courses based on them?

Obviously it was not about salvaging beings, but making money.

Watching the event made me ill -- all of a sudden the proverbial scales fell from my eyes and I saw what was going on. Such ridiculous posturing and pageantry. . . such lies and deception. I was already "disaffected" at that time, but the Basics release (and subsequent barrage of phone calls) was when I knew that I would never go back there.

-TL

[Gottabrain]

::Bump::

[Dilettante]

The ED yelled at me. For two years he was rude, pushy, critical of my life choices, demanding more time and money and 3rd partying my 2D. I was not really offended for so long because I thought, "He's probably trying to help me" and if I were more trained I would get it. One day he was doing his rant and I snapped. I don't mean I flipped out but I just realised a grown man is adressing me in a very hostile way and I let it get to this point! :blush: If this were happening to someone else I would be appauled. :angry: I let him finish and told him I was done. Then I went home and told my hubby I would prefer to just read the books at my leisure. :eyeroll:.

Thanks again GottaBrain!
:wave:
Dil

[Stat]

I've had a few last straws, it was intense like that.
The first straw though, was LRH's smile and "a sparkle in his eyes".
I thought it was my reactive mind telling me to perceive
it as worthy of no trust. So I "handled it" in my universe.
What a ride.

[clamicide]

I've had a few last straws, it was intense like that.
The first straw though, was LRH's smile and "a sparkle in his eyes".
I thought it was my reactive mind telling me to perceive
it as worthy of no trust. So I "handled it" in my universe.
What a ride.

OMG. I can so relate to that. There were so many times I felt Hubbard seemed quite creepy. Then I heard everyone gush about him, and thought something had to be wrong with ME. I went with my 'overts' instead of my reactive mind as the reason I was seeing something wrong with our mighty leader :notworthy:

but, yeah, I "handled it" in "my universe" too. :faceslap:

[SirRalliart]

OMG. I can so relate to that. There were so many times I felt Hubbard seemed quite creepy. Then I heard everyone gush about him, and thought something had to be wrong with ME. I went with my 'overts' instead of my reactive mind as the reason I was seeing something wrong with our mighty leader :notworthy:

but, yeah, I "handled it" in "my universe" too. :faceslap:

Exactly! I well remember things unsaid about LRH's teeth in the VHS Intro to Scn, then the relief from Kool-Aid drinkers when they "fixed" his lower teeth on the DVD. Now I find that the VHS version was indeed correct, his teeth truly were messed up. What is true in the church, anyway? Is it all BS PR?

[Auditor's Toad]

Major was with my own eyes watching an act of violence against a protestor and hearing an OSA person explain it away as " There is no such thing as an overt against an SP".

That set off all the bells and whistles of the kind of things I had heard and not seen so I couldn't believe it was REALLY happening.

Call it what one wants to call it but I realized I was in a group that had was entirely comfortable in using violence to get its way. I saw it.

I created my exit plan and put it in motion.

If I had it to do over? I'd just walk out - no routing forms, no HCO sec checks, no nothing but me gone.

Why? The end results in their eyes and therefore eyes of those whose remain in... will in the long run be the same. You are an SP and will be regarded as an SP.

Remember, they do believe you are for 'em or agin 'em.

And if you are agin 'em there is no such thing as an overt against you.

[FreeBeing]

As a staff member, I didn't see $ci expanding, I didn't see people yearning for $ci or even willing to talk about the subject (late 90's) at least positively. I was working full time and staff at night. I was getting burned out physically. Really looking at the grade chart and costs, going up the bridge seemed like a wealthy vanity. I think the last straw was realizing that Hub wanted the entire world to be an on policy $ci world, KSW with ethics and justice as Hub's dream of an ideal society. I began wondering what kind of world this would be like. I blew my post and was declared.

[Ulf K. Maier]

the CMO IXU folder cull project at ITO, "readying" executive trainees to their trip to and final briefing at Gold Base.

At first, I thought it was all hunky dory, and " this is what is takes to go over the rainbow", etc. Gradually, it dawned on me, after seeing the checklists, the sec checking, the physical folder culls, life histories, blah blah blah, that RTC just had way too much to keep secret. I understood about the need for security for the upper level materials, but for the SO execs themselves? "What could they be hiding?" I asked myself.

Well, I had to leave ITO after this, as there was no way I could get asked about thinking that thought in a sec check and continue in Scientology, much less go up to Int. I went back to my Cl V org after that, and it was never the same. They tried to give me an HCO sec check, and I told the auditor where he could stick the cans.

I left altogether some months later and never once looked back.

[SirRalliart]

As a staff member, I didn't see $ci expanding, I didn't see people yearning for $ci or even willing to talk about the subject (late 90's) at least positively. I was working full time and staff at night. I was getting burned out physically. Really looking at the grade chart and costs, going up the bridge seemed like a wealthy vanity. I think the last straw was realizing that Hub wanted the entire world to be an on policy $ci world, KSW with ethics and justice as Hub's dream of an ideal society. I began wondering what kind of world this would be like. I blew my post and was declared.

I was in the same boat, but I went the opposite way. I blew my 11-year career with a Fortune 100 company and went on staff full-full time. I consider that the biggest mistake of my life! I was $90K in Credit Card debt and quit a $65K job to make far less than the poverty level. I must've checked my intelligence at the door.

Within 2 years I blew right through my 401K, filed bankruptcy and got married and divorced. Why I stuck with it for an additional 10 years beyond that is beyond me. Hell, I was even on Food Stamps for a while. A SNR C/S on Food Stamps???? C'mon, man!

[Tiger Lily]

:bump2:

[anonkatie]

Thanks Tiger Lily.

[crm1978]

Anyone wanting to sell books might want to hurry because if scn goes belly up they might not get much for them.One thing I would bet on is that sadly the price will be much less then you paid and that you and me and many others will have that we been had feeling for some time:angry:

[Auditor's Toad]

Our local library refused all scn books as they already had way too many coming in and were having to put them in the dumpster.

Our local Goodwill flat out said " NO ! Not those ! You can NOT unload those here! "

My guess is the cult is picking up a bad smellto their name at an increasing fast pace.

:thumbsup::clap::happydance::dance2::fly::itstrue: :bravo::mindblow::headspin::winner::wiggle::alien2 ::alien2::alien2::alien2::alien2:

[dianaclass8]

Our local library refused all scn books as they already had way too many coming in and were having to put them in the dumpster.

Our local Goodwill flat out said " NO ! Not those ! You can NOT unload those here! "

My guess is the cult is picking up a bad smellto their name at an increasing fast pace.

:thumbsup::clap::happydance::dance2::fly::itstrue: :bravo::mindblow::headspin::winner::wiggle::alien2 ::alien2::alien2::alien2::alien2:

Many years ago I bought a whole set of the blue vols for only $4 at my local library...

[Voltaire's Child]

Many years ago I bought a whole set of the blue vols for only $4 at my local library...

2 thoughts;

1) That's quite a deal, considering what Scn'ists usually charge on EBay for that.

2) I actually really like the Blue volumes.

[dianaclass8]

2 thoughts;

1) That's quite a deal, considering what Scn'ists usually charge on EBay for that.

2) I actually really like the Blue volumes.

Yes, I got a lot of books at the library for real cheap...I also bought a bunch of Fundamentals of Thought for only .75 Cents at one of those .99 cents and up stores...and to think that I never donated for the library project...he he he :biggrin:

I like those vols too...

[Jachs]

Yes, I got a lot of books at the library for real cheap...I also bought a bunch of Fundamentals of Thought for only .75 Cents at one of those .99 cents and up stores...and to think that I never donated for the library project...he he he

I like those vols too... [/QUOTE]



Youll have to let Scio know, so they can enforce the Price engram policy (think there is Pain and unconsciousness in that engram- whats the command i wonder?) and declare the libraries as suppressive.

Price engram , whenever you have a contra command dictating to get a discount, its not you its your Reactive mind, Ron said so, must be true, he was the sanest OT.Laid in by the pychs just after OT3 and pain and sex.

Those devil sychs.

[purpleheather69]

My final straw was not having any communication from my parents except "have you gone down to the org??". This was after being in the SO as a 15 year old kid (horrible time) being in the RPF, labeled as a PTS type C for over two years and not being able to talk to my family at all!!, having org members come to my home over and over and over again reg'ing me for $$$, and trying to handle my dad not being a dad through the church and nothing being done, especially after they told me they are aware of the situation, and had been for years. Plus several other sits too.

[Moosejewels]

OMG. I can so relate to that. There were so many times I felt Hubbard seemed quite creepy. Then I heard everyone gush about him, and thought something had to be wrong with ME. I went with my 'overts' instead of my reactive mind as the reason I was seeing something wrong with our mighty leader :notworthy:

but, yeah, I "handled it" in "my universe" too. :faceslap:

I can recall an incident where I was lookng at that standard LRH photo that was hung on any and every org wall. The one with his chin resting in his hand and that creepy sneer peering at all of us un-knowing marks in the academy. I had just, perchance, seen some photos of he and his "handmaidens and other messenger corp members". I was thinking, what is this great man doing hanging around with all these very young cuties. He's the head of my "church." But at that moment I thought the photos and article I had seen were projecting an image of a pervert. :nervous:
Of course I immediately quashed that thought and was seriously concerned for my own welfare. How I could have such an evil SP kind of thought. What the hell's wrong with me. All these years later I look back on those thoughts. Hey. I might be an SP, but is it possible my insights back then may have been quite correct ? One of many straws that I experienced.
:confused2:

[smartone]

A friend of mine was going through a terrible time and the org kept contacting her. I remembered thinking that it was strange that the org never offered to help her for free. There was no common kindness from the group at all. All they wanted was her money.

[TN1972]

For me it was a trip home to visit my father on my birthday. Being away from it for a weekend let me see it for the insanity that it was. When I came back I took steps to move back home with my dad.

I was a senior in high school and moved away for Scientology. My father didn't come with us, so it was 'easy' to go back to him.

I say 'easy' because that decision to come back home to graduate from High School is when the real insanity started.

[LoneWolf]

The Last Straw

I needed to take a LOA from the BC, so I got on the LOA routing form. I thought this would be simple since I was on a routing form. I don’t remember the exact sequence of terminals but I went thru the Crs sup, D of T, Qual, Ethics and back to the D of T. Below each terminal listed on the routing form were the exact steps that were to be done. Everything was going great until I got back to the D of T. I was waiting in the office when this young SO chick came out and asked me what I needed. I showed her the routing form. She looked at it and said, “Come with me.” So, like a good boy, I followed. By the way, this was not the D of T. I had never seen her before. She went to the BC and talked to the crs sup. Next thing I knew, my twin and I were in the film room watching the Orientation Film. Ok, so big deal –although this was not on the routing form. After the film, my twin returned to course and I went back to the D of T per the routing form. The same SO babe was in the office talking to the D of T excitedly about how she was going to be heading up “sector 15 of the planet” and in charge of this and in charge of that. When she saw me, she asked why I was not on course. I showed her the routing form. She asked what my cognition was from the Orientation Film. I said I didn’t have one. Long story short: I had to watch the film 4 more times trying to keep my twin awake and wondering WTF! She asked me for any realizations. I said I needed to get back on course. I finished the day and the next morning I got on a Routing Out of the Org RF. This was an amazingly short form. The last terminal was the captain of ASHO. He asked me why I had to route out and to see my success story (which was required on the routing form). I had written a big VGI lie and told him I was going to Flag. Amazingly he bought it and I was OUT!

[freethinker]

I got a reply letter from ED Int (unsigned) that said the reason I had to join WISE was in the Ethics Book. It had not been there before the Basics edition, so I googled WISE.

Three months later, after reading all that I could, it was clear that Scientology was rediculous.

[Outethicsofficer]

Outside of the abuse against my daughter when she was in the SO, the jaw dropping moment for me was after I plucked up the nerve to go online and find Hubbards death cert and then a picture of Hubbard in a state of degradation and that he had physical conditions ailing him...just the same as anyone else. And here he, the OT of all OT's, had all this going on...fuck me that was it. I was out of there! And you could not pay me enough to touch it again!


http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/l-ron-hubbard-coroners-report-complete.pdf

[Idle Morgue]

Debbie Cook's e-mail. :happydance:It landed in my lap and I was not even looking. Of course, there had been a string of outpoints I had already experienced over the past 5 years, however, it was my fault and I was responsible and perhaps when I was OT8, I would figure out what I was doing to create all the gross Organizational errors. :ohmy:

Well, after I read that e-mail, my suspicions were validated. I got on the internet and read everything I could get my hands on. I realized I had been totally duped. The Church of Scientology is a complete and utter failure, it is a destructive group specializing in doing people in. :yes:

I am very grateful for all of you out there to help us heal from this horrible experience. I read about Aleister Crowley and Lafatty Hubbturd's friend Mr. Pastor, the whole biography Scientology does not let anyone know about. I looked at all of the documented facts on the internet. I realized that my sanity and real spiritual freedom lays a head of me OUTSIDE the doors of Scientology.

I looked and looked and looked at the facts. I looked at the statistics of the Group of Scientologist's. I witnessed criminal behavior from the very top of the Organization. I see this group is very unethical overall. I see that the only thing they are really clearing is their buildings and people's wallets.

I read 'Inside Scientology' by Janet Reitman. :wow::wow:

This took a short period of time. I burned all of the materials - everything with Hubbtoad's name on it. I feel it is far too dangerous to allow anyone innocent victim to get this stuff and get tempted to get roped in like I did.

I felt it was an effective blow to destroy everything I owned written by RON the nut! It feels good to be completely away from the crazy cult and back into the real world. It is a beautiful world. I love life and am looking forward to my very bright future! :happydance::cloud9::cheerleader::party::love11::l ove8::love2::dance2:I get to be whoever I decide to be, have whatever I want and do whatever I deem to be in my best interests!

[Outethicsofficer]

Debbie Cook's e-mail. :happydance:It landed in my lap and I was not even looking. Of course, there had been a string of outpoints I had already experienced over the past 5 years, however, it was my fault and I was responsible and perhaps when I was OT8, I would figure out what I was doing to create all the gross Organizational errors. :ohmy:

Well, after I read that e-mail, my suspicions were validated. I got on the internet and read everything I could get my hands on. I realized I had been totally duped. The Church of Scientology is a complete and utter failure, it is a destructive group specializing in doing people in. :yes:

I am very grateful for all of you out there to help us heal from this horrible experience. I read about Aleister Crowley and Lafatty Hubbturd's friend Mr. Pastor, the whole biography Scientology does not let anyone know about. I looked at all of the documented facts on the internet. I realized that my sanity and real spiritual freedom lays a head of me OUTSIDE the doors of Scientology.

I looked and looked and looked at the facts. I looked at the statistics of the Group of Scientologist's. I witnessed criminal behavior from the very top of the Organization. I see this group is very unethical overall. I see that the only thing they are really clearing is their buildings and people's wallets.

I read 'Inside Scientology' by Janet Reitman. :wow::wow:

This took a short period of time. I burned all of the materials - everything with Hubbtoad's name on it. I feel it is far too dangerous to allow anyone innocent victim to get this stuff and get tempted to get roped in like I did.

I felt it was an effective blow to destroy everything I owned written by RON the nut! It feels good to be completely away from the crazy cult and back into the real world. It is a beautiful world. I love life and am looking forward to my very bright future! :happydance::cloud9::cheerleader::party::love11::l ove8::love2::dance2:I get to be whoever I decide to be, have whatever I want and do whatever I deem to be in my best interests!

What a great post, no mucking around for on your part well done. We too got rid of everything. The whole place felt better for it too!

James

[Adam7986]

When my dad threw my diabetic aunt out of the house because she was having sex and pursuing online relationships after he had used scientology to convince her to divorce her husband. He thought her having sex was out.2D for some completely illogical reason and that she shouldn't be living with us because she is not an active scientologist (even though i'm not either).

He thought she would be better off dead and voiced that opinion frequently. She needed someone to take care of her and without that she did die.

When I saw how little my dad valued human life and his own flesh and blood and I looked around and realized that other scientologists are the same way, I knew this was a cult I was involved in. I have not been in a church since.

[SweetnessandLight]

I thought I had posted on this thread, or maybe it was one similar to it.

I've never been "in", fortunately, so there was no getting out for me, but I did have someone close to me who was trying hard to get me into it. I read lots of books, listened to lots of lectures...trying to figure out if there was something useful or good there (wish I could get all that time back for more productive pursuits!:thumbsup:)

I can pinpoint the exact moment when I knew without a doubt that Scientology was evil, a Cult, and something that I would NEVER get into or support in any way...

...it was the moment that I found out that the RPF exists. I got onto the internet, started doing research, and haven't stopped to this day. I will remain an active Critic of Scientology for the rest of my life. :yes:

[phénix]

as there was no way I could get asked about thinking that thought in a sec check




that's exactly one of the ways that scn started fucking with my mind!
Looking at your own thoughts, and feeling guilty having had thoughts, and self-restraining your thoughts and even feeling guilty about thoughts you might have had.....
Drives you fucking nuts!!