OTII

[RolandRB]

I am looking at the contents of OT II on this page.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Declaration/ot2-summary.html

...and I see the same in Margery Wakefield's book "Understanding Scientology".

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-07.html

...and to me it is a mystery that a sane and rational human being could sit down and spend the time and actually inflict this upon themselves.

[RolandRB]

I am looking at the contents of OT II on this page.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Declaration/ot2-summary.html

...and I see the same in Margery Wakefield's book "Understanding Scientology".

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-07.html

...and to me it is a mystery that a sane and rational human being could sit down and spend the time and actually inflict this upon themselves.

It has been said "Stupid is as stupid does" (Forrest Gump's mother). So where does that put people who did OT II to completion?

[OHTEEATE]

Roland, there are many people in here who did OT 2 and 3. You don't understand it, fine. I did it in the process of going up the Bridge, and found it interesting, and a lot of charge, that I could actually feel, blew off duing the experience. I think you should be a gentleman, and be polite, and discuss your disbelief in a more civilized way. I resent being invalidated for describing wins with tech, at any level. I have my reality, and you are not at liberty to invalidate it. If you continue to act in a way that is rude, I will ask the moderator to excuse you until you can comport yourself without being abusive.

[Zinjifar]

Roland, there are many people in here who did OT 2 and 3. You don't understand it, fine. I did it in the process of going up the Bridge, and found it interesting, and a lot of charge, that I could actually feel, blew off duing the experience. I think you should be a gentleman, and be polite, and discuss your disbelief in a more civilized way. I resent being invalidated for describing wins with tech, at any level. I have my reality, and you are not at liberty to invalidate it. If you continue to act in a way that is rude, I will ask the moderator to excuse you until you can comport yourself without being abusive.

I'm not in the business of making excuses for Roland; it's not even a hobby, but, 'invalidation' isn't a crime, or even particularly rude in any *public* forum except within Scientology.

And, it seems to me that if a 'win' is 'valid' at all, it should be immune to dispute or even 'mocking'.

Yes, 'invalidation' can be done rudely, and, there are times and places where it would be rude, such as a private home or gathering, but, this *is* a public forum, however 'moderated' it might be.

Zinj

[Dulloldfart]

I'm not in the business of making excuses for Roland; it's not even a hobby, but, 'invalidation' isn't a crime, or even particularly rude in any *public* forum except within Scientology.

And, it seems to me that if a 'win' is 'valid' at all, it should be immune to dispute or even 'mocking'.

Yes, 'invalidation' can be done rudely, and, there are times and places where it would be rude, such as a private home or gathering, but, this *is* a public forum, however 'moderated' it might be.

Zinj

I consider invalidating someone's untenable argument to be fair game, but invalidating the author, a petty ad hominem attack, reflects badly on the attacker.

One can be civil even while disagreeing violently with the other person. You usually are, Zinj. As many have expressed, I too share a fondness for this board. The general air of friendliness is a big part of that.

Paul

[svonhatten]

It has been said "Stupid is as stupid does" (Forrest Gump's mother). So where does that put people who did OT II to completion?

You obviously aren't a Sociologist. If you are, you aren't a very smart one. :)

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Xenu/scs.html

SUPRISE!

-Steve

[OHTEEATE]

Svonhatten, Thanks for the reference. I will enjoy reading it. Mike

[RolandRB]

Roland, there are many people in here who did OT 2 and 3. You don't understand it, fine. I did it in the process of going up the Bridge, and found it interesting, and a lot of charge, that I could actually feel, blew off duing the experience. I think you should be a gentleman, and be polite, and discuss your disbelief in a more civilized way. I resent being invalidated for describing wins with tech, at any level. I have my reality, and you are not at liberty to invalidate it. If you continue to act in a way that is rude, I will ask the moderator to excuse you until you can comport yourself without being abusive.

"you are not at liberty to invalidate it". What a defining quote. That is sig material. What happened to free thought?

Doing this OT II nonsense is as smart as a Christian getting themselves nailed to a Cross for Easter. I am sure both get huge wins and "blow a lot of charge" but both are plain silly and dangerous. On OT II the damage done is to your integrity and ability to think critically. Getting crucified, the obvious damage is to the body. Both are on a par, with maybe doing OT II worse as having displayed a lack of critical thought you are open for further exploitation by those watching you and taking notes. That is in my opinion (if I am allowed to have one).

[RolandRB]

You obviously aren't a Sociologist. If you are, you aren't a very smart one. :)

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Xenu/scs.html

SUPRISE!

-Steve

No, not a surprise and not a good example at all. This comes from the book "Social Control in Scientology". It is an attempt to make sense of the Scientology experience. It is not a work on sociology that is independent and has been peer-reviewed and through it received broad majority acceptance.

Try another one. I might even read it.

[svonhatten]

No, not a surprise and not a good example at all. This comes from the book "Social Control in Scientology". It is an attempt to make sense of the Scientology experience. It is not a work on sociology that is independent and has been peer-reviewed and through it received broad majority acceptance.

Try another one. I might even read it.

Ok... I've come to a couple of conclusions:

1. You either already read it and don't want to read it again.
2. You don't know what the CoS is (in a social control sense).
3. You are a Scientologist and "filtering" information.
4. You aren't interested in reading "biased" works.
5. You are troll.

Have I missed one?

1. You are entitled. The "social control" makes sense to me, though. It goes on a praise mentality. Perhaps you could make better sense of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

2. You obviously read the paper if you don't understand still.

3. That is your liberty. Ignorance is bliss, but refunds pay for vacations. :D

4. If this is true, you aren't living in the real world, and you probably need to define "biased." I say this because you specified "independent."

5. Nice try. Too bad, so sad. :cool:

-Steve

[RolandRB]

Ok... I've come to a couple of conclusions:

1. You either already read it and don't want to read it again.
2. You don't know what the CoS is (in a social control sense).
3. You are a Scientologist and "filtering" information.
4. You aren't interested in reading "biased" works.
5. You are troll.

Have I missed one?

1. You are entitled. The "social control" makes sense to me, though. It goes on a praise mentality. Perhaps you could make better sense of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

2. You obviously read the paper if you don't understand still.

3. That is your liberty. Ignorance is bliss, but refunds pay for vacations. :D

4. If this is true, you aren't living in the real world, and you probably need to define "biased." I say this because you specified "independent."

5. Nice try. Too bad, so sad. :cool:

-Steve

I have read it and it is obviously biased. It is an attempt to make sense of what people do while in the Scientology movement. The author is free to pick what suits him and package it together. As such, it is not an explanation of what happens to people in Scientology - it is a retrospective attempt to make some sense of it. Because of this, it has little value for predicting future cult behaviour and has zero value for understanding what happens to people in Scientology.

Now to take it back on topic and to illustrate where it fails in this one instance, in the case of OT II / III, with people having left the cult and having no more peer pressure put on them, then they still can not see that they were stupid. So you see that what is written there does not apply. And yet it is obviously stupid. Tell a bunch of schoolchildren that this is what Scientologists do and pay big money for and it would make them bray with laughter. The best cure in this case would be for the person to face a few hundred pointing and laughing schoolchildren and then it might sink in that they did indeed do something stupid.

I think a combination of self-delusion and self-deceit is at work as well as vanity. A person gets so used to be lied to that they become good at lying to themselves and they would never allow themseves to think they made a mistake and were capable of being stupid.

I see OT II and OT III as stupidity tests. If you pass both tests then they have got you for good and they know it. The contents of these two OT levels do not matter, so long as they are sufficient tests of stupidity. The measure of stupidity is the intensity of the Success Story on completion.

[OHTEEATE]

OK, Roland. You seem to be defending your assertion that we are all deluded, stupid, fools, just go on digging yourself in deeper and deeper. Here it is for you in a nutshell: a man came and found human beings had fleas that they were unaware of. These fleas made them itch, but since the fleas were so tiny, they did not know the fleas were there. They thought the itching was caused by GOD who was punishing them. The man taught the people, some of them, to bathe in the ocean and there the fleas were washed away, and the itching stopped. Many people stood on the shore and laughed at them, but the people who bathed in the ocean had no more itching. They told the laughing people 'hey, we no longer itch" and the laughing people said, "that's impossible, everyone itches, it is GODs will". You are stupid to think you no longer itch.
I know your native language is not English. Maybe swinehundt is more like stupid. Pig dog means nothing to an American, it means something to a German or Swiss German. When you say to a person with a tested IQ over 140, that they are stupid, you might offend that person.
The fact that you do not understand OT levels, is not proof that they are nonsense. It is part of the reason they are confidential. They are not at all real to someone not set up with Grades, Clear, and Solo course.

[Alanzo]

Oh I think Roland can call any OT Level or anything written by L Ron Hubbard "stupid".

OTEEATE - You became offended at someone questioning your Scientology wins and beliefs. That's fine. (Maybe there's a button there you should flatten?)

But you can not then say, just because you were offended by someone questioning or even ridiculing Scientology (and not you personally), that they had no right to do that.

It is you who has no right to restrict the free inquiry of the beliefs of Scientology.

This isn't the Church.

And I thank Fucking God for that!

[RolandRB]

OK, Roland. You seem to be defending your assertion that we are all deluded, stupid, fools, just go on digging yourself in deeper and deeper. Here it is for you in a nutshell: a man came and found human beings had fleas that they were unaware of. These fleas made them itch, but since the fleas were so tiny, they did not know the fleas were there. They thought the itching was caused by GOD who was punishing them. The man taught the people, some of them, to bathe in the ocean and there the fleas were washed away, and the itching stopped. Many people stood on the shore and laughed at them, but the people who bathed in the ocean had no more itching. They told the laughing people 'hey, we no longer itch" and the laughing people said, "that's impossible, everyone itches, it is GODs will". You are stupid to think you no longer itch.
I know your native language is not English. Maybe swinehundt is more like stupid. Pig dog means nothing to an American, it means something to a German or Swiss German. When you say to a person with a tested IQ over 140, that they are stupid, you might offend that person.
The fact that you do not understand OT levels, is not proof that they are nonsense. It is part of the reason they are confidential. They are not at all real to someone not set up with Grades, Clear, and Solo course.

I have a tested IQ that is very high (I used to be a paying Mensa member) but I can do stupid things and I can be stupid at times. Other people with high IQs can be stupid at times. But truly stupid people are those who do stupid things and are too stupid to know they have done stupid things or too conceited to face them and because of that, they will likely continue doing stupid things. They might be truly stupid people with very high IQs as well. "Stupid is as stupid does", as the saying goes.

Show these OT level materials to schoolchildren between the ages 11 to 14 and tell them that many adults have spent tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars doing them and they will laugh their heads off and quite rightly so. It might even be a relief to them that adults can be so stupid and is not confined to young minds.

There is another saying I like. I don't know who to attribute the saying to but it goes -- "the truth shouldn't hurt unless it ought to".

[Alanzo]

I don't think that Roland can be contained.

Nor should he be.

[Emma]

Roland, I think we all get your point.

I'll ask you to knock off the "stupid" label. There are some posters who will take offense at being called "stupid". It's one thing to call the OT levels lame, but to continually label anyone who did them as "stupid" is not in the spirit of this board.

Thanks.

[RolandRB]

Roland, I think we all get your point.

I'll ask you to knock off the "stupid" label. There are some posters who will take offense at being called "stupid". It's one thing to call the OT levels lame, but to continually label anyone who did them as "stupid" is not in the spirit of this board.

Thanks.

OK, fair point. I'll desist.

[svonhatten]

I have read it and it is obviously biased. It is an attempt to make sense of what people do while in the Scientology movement. The author is free to pick what suits him and package it together. As such, it is not an explanation of what happens to people in Scientology - it is a retrospective attempt to make some sense of it. Because of this, it has little value for predicting future cult behaviour and has zero value for understanding what happens to people in Scientology.

Now to take it back on topic and to illustrate where it fails in this one instance, in the case of OT II / III, with people having left the cult and having no more peer pressure put on them, then they still can not see that they were stupid. So you see that what is written there does not apply. And yet it is obviously stupid. Tell a bunch of schoolchildren that this is what Scientologists do and pay big money for and it would make them bray with laughter. The best cure in this case would be for the person to face a few hundred pointing and laughing schoolchildren and then it might sink in that they did indeed do something stupid.

I think a combination of self-delusion and self-deceit is at work as well as vanity. A person gets so used to be lied to that they become good at lying to themselves and they would never allow themseves to think they made a mistake and were capable of being stupid.

I see OT II and OT III as stupidity tests. If you pass both tests then they have got you for good and they know it. The contents of these two OT levels do not matter, so long as they are sufficient tests of stupidity. The measure of stupidity is the intensity of the Success Story on completion.

I assume that if you think that was biased, then a lot of other things are biased too. You remind me of a friend of mine. He also had a high IQ... not like that really plays any part in what I'm saying, though.

Unfortunately, he was not living in the real world.

If you don't trust something because it's biased, then you can't live in the real world.

Prove me wrong, and I'll prove I'm right.

-Steve

[RolandRB]

I assume that if you think that was biased, then a lot of other things are biased too. You remind me of a friend of mine. He also had a high IQ... not like that really plays any part in what I'm saying, though.

Unfortunately, he was not living in the real world.

If you don't trust something because it's biased, then you can't live in the real world.

Prove me wrong, and I'll prove I'm right.

-Steve

OK so show me the accreditations of Bob Penny as a leading sociologist. Either that or go did an even deeper pit for yourself.

[lionheart]

Well Roland I think you have misunderstood the crucifixion, but we'll leave that to one side.

I don't think the reactions of children is a good test of the validity of anything. I expect 11 to 14 year olds would probably laugh themselves silly at the idea that we all read and post here about this wierd cult! Oh, actually, they may be right about that! :duh:

I agree with you that it can appear odd to those who never did the OT levels that some would willingly continue to do them even outside the mind-control of the CofS.

I made it my business to find out about them, when I got declared, as part of my decision about whether to "handle" my declare or not and from my perspective the OT levels seemed to be running Ron's dub-in of what he supposed his own case was because he was C/sing himself. That's how I reconciled it from my then tech-trained viewpoint and of course the OT levels are an auditor's code violation.

Now a qaurter of a century later I believe I have a more balanced, mature and, dare I say, more logical opinion. Since the CofS left me I've looked at many belief systems, practices and theories and I understand the excitement they can produce.

I now understand that some people love the feeling of secrecy that the mystery schools give them, some people like the feeling of power that Crowley's magick gives them and some people like the feeling of control that Scn gives them.

It is a big world and there is plenty of room for different opinions without me feeling I have to ridicule anyone who holds different beliefs to mine.

Why are you so moved to belittle those who have a different opinion to yours? This is a serious question and I'd love to know the answer. For months now I've watched your posts slap down and ridicule so many beliefs and opinions and have sometimes been entertained by you. But why do you come over as being so compelled to do this?

[RolandRB]

Well Roland I think you have misunderstood the crucifixion, but we'll leave that to one side.

I don't think the reactions of children is a good test of the validity of anything. I expect 11 to 14 year olds would probably laugh themselves silly at the idea that we all read and post here about this wierd cult! Oh, actually, they may be right about that! :duh:

I agree with you that it can appear odd to those who never did the OT levels that some would willingly continue to do them even outside the mind-control of the CofS.

I made it my business to find out about them, when I got declared, as part of my decision about whether to "handle" my declare or not and from my perspective the OT levels seemed to be running Ron's dub-in of what he supposed his own case was because he was C/sing himself. That's how I reconciled it from my then tech-trained viewpoint and of course the OT levels are an auditor's code violation.

Now a qaurter of a century later I believe I have a more balanced, mature and, dare I say, more logical opinion. Since the CofS left me I've looked at many belief systems, practices and theories and I understand the excitement they can produce.

I now understand that some people love the feeling of secrecy that the mystery schools give them, some people like the feeling of power that Crowley's magick gives them and some people like the feeling of control that Scn gives them.

It is a big world and there is plenty of room for different opinions without me feeling I have to ridicule anyone who holds different beliefs to mine.

Why are you so moved to belittle those who have a different opinion to yours? This is a serious question and I'd love to know the answer. For months now I've watched your posts slap down and ridicule so many beliefs and opinions and have sometimes been entertained by you. But why do you come over as being so compelled to do this?

"Of the few innocent pleasures left....
the jamming of commonsense down the throats
of fools is perhaps the keenest."
Thomas Huxley

[tarbaby]

".... the jamming of commonsense down the throats of fools is perhaps the keenest."

Gee, this sounds kinda like the description of my job in the cult: force-feeding data.

Dennis

[lionheart]

"Of the few innocent pleasures left....
the jamming of commonsense down the throats
of fools is perhaps the keenest."
Thomas Huxley

Yes, but why are you compelled to so jam rolandsense? Are you so addicted to this "pleasure".

You seem to have a terribly cruel, superior, mocking attitude or am I misunderstanding you?

Is it not rather egotistical to assume rolandsense is "commonsense" and those who have a different opinion are "fools"?

I just saw another post by you where you were bragging about how different from the crowd were were and still are, therefore rolandsense is not "common" at all, in your view of yourself.

So I ask again why are you compelled to amuse yourself in this way?

I ask this as someone who feels no need to run, validate or defend the "OT levels" but I defend people's right to run them if they wish.

I repeat this is a big, big world and everyone is unique, not just you Roland.

I spent over ten years of my life having a big ego ram his opinions and prejudices down my throat and I have developed pretty acute ego-dar. :eyeroll:

[RolandRB]

Gee, this sounds kinda like the description of my job in the cult: force-feeding data.

Dennis


You were force-feeding them something, Dennis, but I wouldn't call it "data" much less "commonsense".

[OHTEEATE]

Crowley wasn't stupid. He did a survey and found out naked women are needed and wanted and it became part of the "goodies" you got from attending the temple. Very old come on for religion. Temple prostitutes. In 1971, 2Ds in Scientology were very easy to have. I think it's still true. Very little was done to discourage promiscuity.

[KMomma]

I thought sex outside of marriage in the CofS was frowned upon.

[Alan]

I thought sex outside of marriage in the CofS was frowned upon.



Only if you are married and are jealous of the happy single people. DM is married.

Alan

[tarbaby]

You were force-feeding them something, Dennis, but I wouldn't call it "data" much less "commonsense".

I guess Roland hasn't grasped the fact that force-feeding people anything, true or not, would tend to make them gag. (perhaps that explains the reaction to his posts)

Dennis

[svonhatten]

Crowley wasn't stupid. He did a survey and found out naked women are needed and wanted and it became part of the "goodies" you got from attending the temple. Very old come on for religion. Temple prostitutes. In 1971, 2Ds in Scientology were very easy to have. I think it's still true. Very little was done to discourage promiscuity.

This reminded me of something.

http://www.raelsgirls.com/

hahahahaha!

-Steve

[ron's hat]

I thought sex outside of marriage in the CofS was frowned upon.


Well...according to the 'Pain and Sex' bulletin, sex is simply a control mechanism used by...who else....those damned psychs.....WAAAAAY back on the track, of course. So...it thereby follows that if someone is a true scientologist and a true believer in the genius of Ron, then he or she should obviously abstain from any and all sex so as not to restimulate all those damnable implants.

[Alanzo]

Yeah.

I used to think sex was a restimulation of the reactive mind, too.

It's astounding how screwed up Hubbard was on sex. And to think his sexual problems became the tech for me and other Scientologists to follow.

Whenever I had a problem with sex, I would always be told that the answer was to be found in Scientology. Just keep studying and the answer is there. I was told it would be on the BC.

It wasn't there.

There are many more answers to sex in the self-help section of any bookstore than anywhere in Scientology.

I wish it hadn't taken me 16 years to figure that out. But that's how Scientology is designed. You can't know what's above you, and so you are told to just keep going - you'll find it.

What a fraud.

[Div6]

Roland,

For another perspective on this, check out http://www.freezone-america.org/excal/excal04c.html

Filbert fully "drank the koolaid" and has some dark ominous riffs about the realities of OT's, meat body societies, and the death of the gods.
It might suggest you were a god once, but now find it safer to "just be meat".
To each his own, my friend.

"The human race has good reason to feel hostility for gods.

The human meat bodies, with the genetic entities that build them, have had enough of being interfered with and hassled by gods and operating thetans. They do not like their houses being blown apart, the oxygen cover being pulled off the planet, the axis changing on the planet, sudden ice ages, sudden supernova, or any of the four horseman of the Apocalypse. Meat bodies, understandably, don't like these events, so they (due to these engrams) feel that anyone manifesting spiritually powers should either be heavily entrapped or religiously sacrificed "for the good of all". As a group meat bodies have been very clever. This particular galaxy has gone from having 100,000s to less than 10,000 fully capable Operating Thetans. Fully capable means that one can appear and disappear without question from one end of the galaxy to the other in less than a second, thus these are messengers. I trust you recall there was a fellow named Mercury (Hermes, if you prefer), who had this ability of instantaneous appearance and disappearance. As all of these messengers started disappearing (got trapped into meat bodies themselves, somewhat due to sexual sensation addictions), the fact that the gods were dying due to entrapment by meat, meant that the communications systems that ran the galaxy started breaking down. As that broke down, central control went by the boards. As central control went by the boards, the defence of its borders against infiltration diminished. With infiltration came contamination, diversity, and degradation. Survival required regional government so at least there would be some kind. And that is how great two galactic societies no longer are. A lot of the extraterrestrial flying saucers are completely unoccupied. They just contain mechanical computer machinery. No one is alive in them anymore. The wars cost too much in personnel. As a prison planet, earth is being very sloppily maintained, due to the high cost of Government and Travel. It is about a 4 year trip from Markab to here. They are just barely maintaining territorial sovereignty, and there is an enormous tax load on its citizenry. It should be noted that all flying saucers are not from outer space, and most are from the powers that be on this planet, which is outlined in the "novel" entitled "Genesis by" W. A. Harbinson, Corgi books in Great Britain and Dell in the U.S. The book defines the manifestation of ecological and eclectic men gone mad with the idea of the super race, and defines low grade saucers as being from the US and USSR, with the sophisticated ones being from under Antarctica as the remnant of Third Reich super science restrains the rest of the world from progressing up to the military and scientific hardware and software it holds.

As the gods disappear out of social area, the culture decreases, and the people just keep around symbols that they were once here. The way that gods get trapped into mest and human games is detailed adequately in the writings of the Greeks, where you will find an essentially accurate account of the continual intermixing of operating thetans and humans. It was an interesting occurrence that between 8 and 20 gods got heavily involved with humans to produce 30,000 semi-god, semi-human people before that hierarchy collapsed. The magical power started disappearing from the gods due to excessive dilution. There was a most procreative dissipation of spiritual power in The Golden Age. We have not seen anything like it since. That is how such things are done, through slow contamination."

[Veda]

Roland,

For another perspective on this, check out http://www.freezone-america.org/excal/excal04c.html

Filbert fully "drank the koolaid" and has some dark ominous riffs about the realities of OT's, meat body societies, and the death of the gods.
It might suggest you were a god once, but now find it safer to "just be meat".
To each his own, my friend.

"The human race has good reason to feel hostility for gods.

The human meat bodies, with the genetic entities that build them, have had enough of being interfered with and hassled by gods and operating thetans. They do not like their houses being blown apart, the oxygen cover being pulled off the planet, the axis changing on the planet, sudden ice ages, sudden supernova, or any of the four horseman of the Apocalypse. Meat bodies, understandably, don't like these events, so they (due to these engrams) feel that anyone manifesting spiritually powers should either be heavily entrapped or religiously sacrificed "for the good of all". As a group meat bodies have been very clever. This particular galaxy has gone from having 100,000s to less than 10,000 fully capable Operating Thetans. Fully capable means that one can appear and disappear without question from one end of the galaxy to the other in less than a second, thus these are messengers. I trust you recall there was a fellow named Mercury (Hermes, if you prefer), who had this ability of instantaneous appearance and disappearance. As all of these messengers started disappearing (got trapped into meat bodies themselves, somewhat due to sexual sensation addictions), the fact that the gods were dying due to entrapment by meat, meant that the communications systems that ran the galaxy started breaking down. As that broke down, central control went by the boards. As central control went by the boards, the defence of its borders against infiltration diminished. With infiltration came contamination, diversity, and degradation. Survival required regional government so at least there would be some kind. And that is how great two galactic societies no longer are. A lot of the extraterrestrial flying saucers are completely unoccupied. They just contain mechanical computer machinery. No one is alive in them anymore. The wars cost too much in personnel. As a prison planet, earth is being very sloppily maintained, due to the high cost of Government and Travel. It is about a 4 year trip from Markab to here. They are just barely maintaining territorial sovereignty, and there is an enormous tax load on its citizenry. It should be noted that all flying saucers are not from outer space, and most are from the powers that be on this planet, which is outlined in the "novel" entitled "Genesis by" W. A. Harbinson, Corgi books in Great Britain and Dell in the U.S. The book defines the manifestation of ecological and eclectic men gone mad with the idea of the super race, and defines low grade saucers as being from the US and USSR, with the sophisticated ones being from under Antarctica as the remnant of Third Reich super science restrains the rest of the world from progressing up to the military and scientific hardware and software it holds.

As the gods disappear out of social area, the culture decreases, and the people just keep around symbols that they were once here. The way that gods get trapped into mest and human games is detailed adequately in the writings of the Greeks, where you will find an essentially accurate account of the continual intermixing of operating thetans and humans. It was an interesting occurrence that between 8 and 20 gods got heavily involved with humans to produce 30,000 semi-god, semi-human people before that hierarchy collapsed. The magical power started disappearing from the gods due to excessive dilution. There was a most procreative dissipation of spiritual power in The Golden Age. We have not seen anything like it since. That is how such things are done, through slow contamination."

This was written a long time ago. Does Filbert still believe that the Third Reich, with flying saucers, has a base under Antartica?

Geeez. I hope not.