Tag end, of the catalyst for me & parts of a story

[Carmel]

If I ever wrote/write my story, the following would be at the tag end of it. Recently, some stuff has “shifted” for me, and for my hubby (who now has less concern re me maintaining my anonymity on this message board). ANZO has been so “sheltered” in so many respects. While there are many indicators that so much needs “rectifying” - on the surface for so many around these parts, it CAN seem that the “the Org” is more on track than not, in the pursuit of “Freedom”.

Well, not so I would think, and some time ago realised. It is not always at is seems. Why are the vast majority of the OL’s of the past (opinion leaders), and those who “stood up” in the name of “freedom”, now so long gone and nowhere to be seen? For those of you who have asked, and for those of you who know me, the following is what went down just before I left. It’s not been so noble of me, to withhold it to date – as I know it may impinge on folks who know me/knew me, who are still sitting on the fence. The atrocities going on within the CofS, aren’t just “make believe”, and few and far between in some remote place like the USA. They happen here to, and soon you’ll be hearing more from others, who have copped it hard in our own back yard.

We’ve all had our different experiences, but from my experience, any and all in ANZO who have tried to carry that Flag for “freedom”, who have fought for sanity within the ranks and who have refused to “give in” to the “mental compliance” required by the powers that be – have been persecuted to the point of submission, or have left. The following is part of the story as to why I left.

The last straw (97/98):

I had already been through 6 months of arbitrary ethics handlings, and six intensives of sec checking (at my expense), because I wasn’t complying and/or wouldn’t comply and change my “think”, in regard to whacko org management intervention on a dissem cycle I did, and because of where I was at on the “church” and its general operating basis. They found no “heinous crimes” during my sec check and had nothing on me, and supposedly exhausted all avenues in regard to “handling” me - but that’s another story (as a note, I was a “public” at this point, although prior in my Scn history, I held senior tech and admin posts in the org, as well as power fsm status in the field). I thought I was through and could finally “walk” without a “label” (slide out the back door so to speak).

It was Jan 98 and I had just gotten back from a trip back to NZ for a family reunion/holiday, with my husband and boys. I had thought I was “done” at the org, prior to leaving on holiday, but I was called in “urgently”. If it were not for the fear of my kids having to choose between me and Scientology – down the track, I would have said “get fucked, I’m out!”, but at that time, this was of major concern to me. I gained so much from Scientology, and I didn’t want my kids to be denied the gains that I had made (easy to see in hindsight, that this was foolish – especially now, given that I know the actual scene). Mistakenly, I had decided to play this out, and wanted to slip away quietly without an SP declare.

I went in as “ordered” and was confronted with a KR (knowledge report), from a Scientologist who we had a bit to do with, some years earlier. We’ll call this scn’ist Bob (I won’t name him, I care for his family and he was just a pawn in the game – if anything, I feel sorry for him).

The KR from Bob, stated that I supposedly had an affair with Bob, some 6 years before. It gave some specifics like; we didn’t actually have sex, we just “heavy petted”; he licked me out several times, but I didn’t return the favour; we had a very sensual shower one time; this “affair” reportedly went on for 3 months, at a time when I was running the Class V org; that one of my selectees knew we were having this affair; and I can’t recall what else it said. Nor can I recall every detail or sequence of events – but some things stick in my mind – and that’s what I will tell you about.

I went into shock! – Big time! I knew this guy was a huge “dub-in” case, as did most who knew him (he would make stuff up, then believe it, we reckoned). I was saddened, as I had affinity for the guy, his wife and family. I didn’t get where this had come from. My hubby had given him work, when he needed it. And I had done a marriage handling, on him and his wife (she was a doll). Things between Bob and I hadn’t been great, but nor had they been bad.

I objected to the KR being given any credibility, let alone being acted on – for several reasons. At the time, I thought, these reasons would/should have been clear and unquestionable to anyone who had a brain, or to any scn’ist who new ethics tech:
- It was written by a “psych case”, who had never finished a major course in Scn, and one who had no “stats” or “products” (while that may mean little to me, it would normally be highly relevant to an ethics officer)
- It was referring to a time when I was ED of an org, and doing very well with that org. Highest Ever Paid Comps for years (the org’s main stat), just recently uncrossed cash/bills (“solvent”), and $250,000 of previously not confronted refund requests handled or paid out. Staff were winning and so were public. The “affair” was reportedly to have taken place at this time (another point that should have/would have been very relevant to an ethics officer)
- Per “Second Dynamic Rules” policy letter, ethics orders, punishment or discipline for 2D activities should not be the business of orgs and not administered.
- I could get evidence, that the report was bullshit, and I gave specific examples.

...but alas, not so. My objections and data were negated/denied. And my question re "WTF relevance does this have anyway?" :angry: was continually ignored.

I had to hang around for a while. I was sitting and stewing. Then Shane Brockdorff - an old flat mate of mine, co TTC member (we “trained” together), once Snr C/S ANZO, and Class 9 auditor, turned up to “audit” me. He used to be my friend, but this night, he was as cool as a cucumber toward me. This is a guy, who knew who I was, and what I was, and what I had done/”achieved” within the Scn ranks.

“1st interview”

I saw the CO OSA (Vicky Hannah), the RTC mission I/C, and the RTC mission MAA go into an auditing room. Then Shane took me into the auditing room next door, and began an “INAY” (I’m not auditing you)”session” of course. He had an ear piece in his ear, and I could see that the live “camera” in the room (intended for auditor training), was on. I got quite fearful at this point. I knew those dudes next door were about to witness what was gonna go down. I had had months of punishment and insanity from those two fascist type missionaries (fired directly from and run by DM), and my adrenalin started pumping. I took the cans, and Shane started questioning me for withholds – straight up! I couldn’t believe it. The comm cycle (conversation) went something like this:

Me: WTF are you doing? You’re asking for my overts with Bob, and trying to pull withholds on me, without any standard sessioning, no sleep check, no food check, no metab, and no ruds?
Shane: What did you do with Bob?
Me: Excuse me!!!!!!!! WTF? What are you doing? What is this? That’s a listing question, and you aren’t even giving a fuck about a read on the question!
Shane: I know you had an out 2D with Bob, What did you do?
Me: I can’t believe this, what are you doing? We trained together? That’s not a confessional or sec check question. That’s a fucking listing question. You know as well as I do the meter reads on “yes”, so WTF are you doing, what tech are you applying with this random “steering” ?
Shane: I want you to tell me about your out 2D with Bob. What did you do?
Me: So you are willing to persist with this fiasco, and piss on all your training and the tech, cause you’d rather follow the orders of miscavige and his henchmen, than get toasted?

At this point, Shane went “red”, and said we’d be taking a break. (he obviously was told to stop there, and went into the room, where the spectators were watching and controlling the “session”). I heard the yelling.
Shane came back, put ear piece back in his ear, and continued. He was very surley with me. He proceeded with “your needle is dirty”. I responded with “well of course it’s fucking dirty – you are invalidating the fucking shit out of me! We did e-meter drills together REMEMBER!!! Why would it be fucking clean when you are being such a fascist c’nt!

Shane just kept on, and I kept bucking and rejecting. So lucky I was trained, and didn’t put my “case” or myself in his “hands”. I knew what he was doing was SO DAMN off the wall, that I was gonna remain cause at all cost. I was scared though, and I was shaking uncontrollably at one point. I could fight, and I kept fighting, but inside I felt terrified and trapped. I was very confused and felt my world was caving in me. It took me all the strength I could muster to hang in there.

I kept insisting to Shane that he wake the fuck up, and look at what he was doing, and get some balls for god’s sake and stand up to the nazi mongrels who were forcing him to do this, but the same line of questioning just went on and on. It took me everything to hold back the tears, but I did. I didn’t want to give the pricks who were watching, the gratification of seeing me “crack”/”fold”. I kept insisting that he get Bob in, that he get the two of us together, and that I would/could prove that Bob’s KR was full of dub-in (bullshit), on Bob’s part.

Finally, the session and the battle, came to an end (I thought). Vicki Hannah (CO OSA) came in, and said that Bob was there, and that she was wanting to talk with Bob and I. I stayed in the room. In walked Bob, out walked Shane, then Vicki started to talk.

Bob gave his story. I was furious! I wanted to fucking deck the bastard at that point. I was bursting with anger and frustration, my blood was boiling, but I had to sit and listen to his account of events. I kept staring at him. If looks could kill, yes – he would’ve been dead. I bit my tongue and copped it – til it was my turn.

Finally it was my turn for a response. I wanted to yell and scream and cry, but knew that I had to contain myself, if I wanted to make a point. The following is pretty roughly the conversation that went down, between Bob and myself, with Vicki there arbitrating. It may sound crude and/or rude, but the dialogue between us, shows that Bob was bullshitting. Please see it, in that light. It went something like this:
(Note: I was confronting him, looking at him while he either had his head down or was looking out the window into the dark)

Me: So, you say, we had an affair for 3 months, but never actually fucked?
Bob: That’s right!
Me: Why didn’t we fuck Bob? If we were so passionately in love with each other, and had the opportunity, why would we not? We were adults for chrissake, not bloody teenyboppers?
Bob: I don’t know, we didn’t need to.
Me: Oh come on! Why would we not fuck if we were so passionately in love?
Bob: That’s the point, we were in love, and we didn’t need to. (I gave up on that one!)
Me: So per your KR, you licked me out on several occasions, but I never sucked YOU off?
Bob: That’s right
Me: Did I ever offer, or was I just happy for a one way flow?
Bob: You offered but I refused!
Me: Excuse me???
Bob: I just wanted to satisfy you, wasn’t in it for myself
Me: You mean to say, that here was a woman who you were passionately in love with, wanting to suck you off, and you were refusing the offer?
Bob: Yep!
Me: Well that’d be a fucking first, especially in this bloody country! You’d be a rare one BOYO!!!
Bob: I am a rare one, and I pride myself on it. (bloody lovely! Gave up on that one too)
I had all sorts of comments at that point, and Vicki pulled me up on my obscenities, and put me back on track.
Me: What about the shower? (a whole crew of us were having a weekend away. Bob and I went there two hours earlier (with my kids) than the rest of the four families, because we were the ones who were free to get there and get everything working and warmed up in the daylight, before the rest of the crew arrived there in the dark. At this big old empty mansion in the Blue Mountains, the water was nearly frozen in the pipes, and it was cold and damp when we got there. We spent about an hour and a half, making it warm and welcoming for those who were to arrive shortly after).
Me: So you say we had a romantic shower when we got to there, before the others arrived?
Bob: Yep
Me: What about the fact that the water was all but freezing at the time, and that it took til the next morning to get hot water through the pipes? A romantic cold shower in the blue mountains in August – are you fucking kidding me?
Bob: Didn’t matter, we were in love.
Me: Come on! In that freezing water, your cock would have shrivelled up and disappeared – How romantic would that be? What did we do in the fucking shower?
Bob: We just loved each other, we didn’t notice the cold.
I turned to Vicki – “Don’t you see how absurd this is? He’s in a fucking dream world! Can’t you SEEEEE that? Vicki said to me “Do you have any other questions for Bob?”. I said “yes”.
Me: So, if we were having a shower when we first got there, where were my kids?
Bob: They were in bed asleep.
Me: Well there ya go! The others got there for dinner a couple of hours after us, and my kids were still up and played with the others when they arrived. Didn’t go to bed for two hours later.

I turned to Vicki – “Obviously this “story”/”fantasy, doesn’t wash. I would hardly leave my 3,4 and 6 year olds to their own devices in a strange environment, running around high balconies, stairs, ponds, pools and the like with no supervision, would I? He says they were in bed. Come on!!! – like I could say to my extremely active young men “come on boys, mummy’s just going to go and have some slap and tickle in the shower with Bob (and before Daddy gets here), so I just need you to have a little sleep for a while, OK?. Yeah right!!! I was furious and I was getting more than slightly sarcastic with the lack of any sane response from Vicki on the matter. What more did I have to say?

Vicki: We’ll leave it there then.
Me: So do ya get it now? Will ya drop it now?
Vicki: Thanks Bob.... then she looked at me.....I’ll be back soon.

STUPID me, felt relieved...of course I had proved that this guy was living in a fantasy land.....but not so apparently........the interrogation continued.

Shane: So what did you do with Bob?
ME: WTF??? Isn’t that cleared? It’s more than apparent that Bob is bullshitting/in a fantasy land, and you are still persisting with this crap line?
Shane: Tell me about the sex between you and Bob?
Me: WTF? C’mon Shane, ya can’t tell me that some guy is gonna turn away getting sucked off by a woman he is “passionately in love with”, or have a cold shower in the blue mountains in August. Surely you see the outpoints/ the discrepancies – he’s dubbing in for god’s sake – nothing happened
with him and me. It’s more than apparent that he’s bullshitting. Wake up. Don’t do this. How will you sleep tonight? Tell those fuckers next door to get fucked. This is INSANNNE!!!

Argued for some time, and then...

Shane: Have you ever had physical contact with Bob?
I’d had enough, thought “OK, will tell ‘m what he wants” Christ, I just wanted out – and all my reasoning wasn’t getting me there.
Stupid me: Yeah, while dancing one night.

One night, I put on a Pirates and Wenches party for my staff and public who we had come to know and love. It was at my home, we had put nets up all over the place and mocked it up as a ship. And yes, all the girls came as wenches, and the boys came as pirates. We had about 200 people there. Just like all the girls, I was dressed up as a “wench” – had some cleavage showing – oh my god! We all had a great night. During the evening I had danced with Bob, and just about every other bloke there. And yes, we all had fun with each other. The usual female/male attentions (that come so naturally and feel so good) were running high. But as usual, we all knew where the line was and didn’t cross it. I certainly didn’t even get near that line with Bob, let alone cross it. I danced with him to some slow supertramp track, and yes our hips were touching at one point and yes my tits were obviously touching his chest (whoopdy bloody do!!!). Big deal – aren’t they always when a man and woman have a slow dance?

You’d think that I had seduced him and taken him to the bedroom and fucked his brains out – given the questioning from Shane, the accusations and the amount of time spent on one bloody absolutely NOTHING dance! “weren’t you being sluttish and provocative showing your cleavage?” “wouldn’t having your hips touching, been turning him on?” Weren’t you getting turned on with your breasts against his chest?” etc, etc, etc, for about an hour and a half. I argued “no overt there baby!” he argued “how could that not be an overt?” I argued “not per my moral code”. It went on and on.

Finally, Shane said – we’ll leave it there. He was escorting me out, and told me to go and wait in a certain area. I said “no examiner hey?” (I knew there wouldn’t be). I said he should maybe give himself an instruct on “Illegal Auditing” HCOB (tech bulletin).

Vicki saw me. It was now say 3.30am (I had been in the org on this cycle for seven and a half hours). She said that I should go home and get some rest – lovely! Had to be up at 6.30am next morning to get kids to school, and me to work. I went home. Quite numb, and very “lossy”, very drained and spaced.

That was the first “interview”. Pushing the submit button on this will help me get the confront up, to tell you about the second - the following night. And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.

[SchwimmelPuckel]

So.. What was it that made Bob such an 'asset' at this time? - Did he inherit? - Were they recruiting him?

Outrageous as this story is.. I'm not surprized at all.

During my first sessions at Copenhagen org.. That was Book and Bottle, touching walls.. Someone, maybe the EO, was watching the sessions through the keyhole in the door. (This was before there was videocams). They were suspicious of my female auditor it would seem... I learned this years later from a woman who was there, and became my friend.

:yes:

[Supra]

FAR F######G OUT. Isn't it good to know that someday OSA will read this.

And I've had some run-ins with Shane too, but nothing like that.

[Mrs Pattycake]

OMG !!! ... RTC - but those are the "good folk" that are there to keep the tech pure and standard and make sure that the results are gotten from correct application - No ???

So their stated intention and actions don't match what are they really doing ??? Really ???

Seriously, I'm glad you were so well trained that you spotted what they were up to straight away and was able to hold your ground - I can only imagine that your story is going to get worse - since they didn't succeed in turning you into a blubbering mess with that ... I'll keep posted.

[Carmel]

So.. What was it that made Bob such an 'asset' at this time? - Did he inherit? - Were they recruiting him?


Not all, none of those things.

I rang "Bob's" wife the next day. I was trying to fugure out where all this was coming from. She apologized for her husband's behaviour. She said that she and Bob, were in the process of splitting. She said that she knew the whole thing was BS - just another one of Bob's fantasies. She thanked me profusely for all the help I had given them in the past, said how good their relationship was after the "marraige handling" I did for them, and was so sorry for the crap I was now going through at Bob's doing. She said that some years ago, he'd told a mutual mate, about what he would have liked to have happened. In recent times, with me in "trouble", the mate told his wife, who was good friends with the mother of an arch enemy of mine in OSA.

She said that the mate's wife and the mother of the OSA crew member, were at their place for two whole days, hounding Bob to write the KR. She said that he didn't want to, and that he refused to, but then finally gave in and did as they requested, after a couple of days.

Obviously, certain people wanted a "head on a pike", and wanted something on me. This is all they could get. And it worked - it sullied my reputation within the class V orgs, and within the AO, and some of the field. And, it got rid of me. About three later, it came out that Bob had been "lying" about the whole affair, but by then of course it was too late. People already "knew" that I had a "gross" out 2D sit, which was the cause of me "leaving", and sitting out in the field "motivating". My supposed "out 2D" was publicised widely - of course the fact that this was based on fabrication, and in actual fact just used in an effort to make me pull my head in, was never publicised or broadly issued.

[Jakadak]

:omg: Unbelievable!!! ......well after everything I've read here lately I guess it's not. Well done on sharing this with us Ceedia... (I'm interested in Part 2)
Cheers, Jakadak :coolwink:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

[...text deleted... And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.[/QUOTE]

But, dear Ceedia, there are many, myself included, who were "there" and who do understand all too well! :yes: Impossible to adequately express appreciation for your beautifully presented story. :clap: :happydance: with more to follow...:thumbsup:

Now! Did I MISS the GENDER change? :omg: :confused2: :yes: :coolwink: :D

Ol EP LIKE very much this new DATA! An offer, dear girl: If "hubby" go "ex-hubby" or sumphin - maybe I come help you with those boys of yours, and if any others should come along in due course...Well that would be an added bonus and a world of fun, wouldn't it? :coolwink: :whistling: :yes:

Hawks VERY powerful animal totem! Be careful now...:thumbsup:

Roy, the EP's EP

[Emma]

Roy, you can't run off with every single girl on ESMB!

It's not practical. :p

Ceedia, I know both Shane & Vicky very well. I know what a heavy handed asshole Shane can be. I don't envy you being in that situation. Kudos to you for holding your space. :thumbsup:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Roy, you can't run off with every single girl on ESMB!

It's not practical. :p

Ceedia, I know both Shane & Vicky very well. I know what a heavy handed asshole Shane can be. I don't envy you being in that situation. Kudos to you for holding your space. :thumbsup:

Emma, Sweetie! There PLENTY EP's to go round! :yes:


Love ya madly, :p

Roy

[Zander]

Hi Ceedia,

Wow, what an amazing story and how disgraceful of scientology to treat anyone like that. I just can’t imagine how awful it felt.

Firstly, even to be accused of a “crime” is intensely distressing, and I know this as it has happened twice in my life, one recent and one many years ago. Both times were as a result of someone’s overactive imagination, with a sprinkling of emotional manipulation thrown into the mix. The recent one was instigated by 2 scientologists,and appears to be borne out of my recent departure from scientology. But when they were challenged to provide specifics and back up the accusations they just backpedalled out of it. But it was distressing and time-consuming nevertheless.

I also want to make a wider point, which is that your experience is indicative of scientology “justice” in general. What about the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. What about your right to have representation? Scientology has no regard for the standards of justice laid down over centuries, standards which are there to protect the innocent.

You were able to stand up to this onslaught remarkably well and you did demonstrate the falsity of the accusation with logical argument, even though they still stupidly persisted with it for several years. However, imagine someone less capable than yourself, what protection would they have from this situation? Many people would have just given false confessions under this stress, as is well known in criminal law. Again this is something which is protected against in most democratic countries. But scientology pays no regard at all to the concept of protection of the innocent – honestly, what kind of justice is “heads on pikes”!

Ceedia, well done on getting this story out, it can't have been easy. And I really look forward to hearing what happened next.

Zander

[Pixie]

Oh Ceedia, I could have written this myself. They are so messed up on the whole '"2D" thing and have the knack of making women feel like whores. My god, it beggers belief. Well done for getting through it all and coming out the other side sane.

Warmest.. Pix... :hug:

[Axiom142]

Ceedia,

What a horrible thing to have happen to you. I am fuming just reading it. :angry: You must be more of a saint than me, I’m sure I would lost it and done my famous Incredible Hulk impression. Someone would have been seriously hurt. I am very glad to see that you have survived it intact.

Sadly, I am not at all surprised by this. On numerous occasions I have seen someone incur the displeasure of a ‘senior’ person and end up in the firing line. Once this happens, there is usually only one result. So much for Scientology ethics and justice!

Ultimately, this is bad for the CoS as they have made and no doubt continue to make enemies of so many people who should be their greatest friends.

OSA, if you are reading this – this is why you are losing. No organisation can make as many enemies as you have done and hope to survive. The ‘church’ of Scientology has harmed too many people and done too many wrongs. It’s payback time and you are in the firing line.

Ceedia, thank you for telling us this and making the truth known. I look forward to more of your story.

Axiom142

[Terril park]

The greatest overt there is, is making another guilt of an overt.
This is perhaps the most horrendous out tech occurring in the COS.
Its endemic for example on OT VII sec checks. It seems in fact to be institutionalized within COS. Seemingly the new " Senior Policy" !!

Its clear from what you wrote that you hadn't committed the overt in question, and had the training to defend yourself. Thus you were relatively unscathed re being introverted. Though not by injustice.

Those who did these terrible actions do not have that protection on their side. Karma will prevail.

I consider it as perhaps the biggest problem that many in COS have been
led to this path of making others guilty of an overt. I don't think there is anything more soul destroying.

They who have done this, more than anyone else, need help.

[Feral]

Dear Ceedia,

FWIW I do know there was several of us at that time that knew you had done no wrong with BOB the dub in king. We saw the injustice, but I had no idea on the "auditing" you were getting.

I am so sorry for your experience. I had an interview like that, the hysteria that it can turn on is frightening.

Feral

[Carmel]

Dear Ceedia,

FWIW I do know there was several of us at that time that knew you had done no wrong with BOB the dub in king.
Feral
Worth a lot Feral, thanks :) .

[Carmel]

Thanks for your comments guys – all real to me, and heartening to have that acknowleged. Yes, my training held me in good stead that first night. As it was, the next day/night, not so - I got pushed into a big black whole.

I had hardly slept the night before. CO OSA rang me, and “ordered” me in to wrap up the cycle. I said no way would I be getting on the cans again. She said that was fine, just needed to sort out a few things.

I got into the AO at around 8pm. I was left waiting for two hours – till around 10pm, when Shane had finished post. He had my folder I think, and said we were going to tidy up a couple of actions. I told him I’d only had two hours sleep, and that I wasn’t in any state to tidy up anything. He said that it wouldn’t be a problem, didn’t need to be “sessionable” for what we were going to do.

We went back to that same room. I was fearful at this point, but thought I’d take it one step at a time (thinking I would/could stop it, if it got too much) – big mistake.

I picked up the cans, and he asked me about a time period in my past, that I certainly wasn’t proud of.

Need to give background here - While many have had decent lives, and stayed on the straight and narrow, some of us have not. I was brought up by older siblings and we were tight, there was much love and support, but the “usual” parental guidance was missing. I started going off the track at an early age, was into mild street drugs and basically doing whatever I felt inclined to do, very early on. I was supporting myself and doing reasonably well. I had a partner, but often we were in different geographical locations. He was quite a bit older than me, and had work contracts in set locations. I wanted to “get out there’, “live life”, and was hitching around Aussie (lived out of a back pack for 3 years). My partner and I would be together for a month or two at a time (periodically and when we could be) and all was relatively good (I thought).

Then, late 78, it was over between my partner and I – and not on my choosing. I thought we would be together for life. I was heartbroken and went into a big slump. I had lost all direction, hopes and dreams, and nothing much mattered anymore. I was in Western Australia – a long way from friends and family on the east coast, and from NZ which was my “home”.

I ended up in a bad scene in 79. I got into heavy drugs and was addicted. Along with that, were the usual activities needed to support that. I am ashamed that I stooped so low, and am ashamed of this part of my track, but by the same token, I am proud of how I got out of that, stepped up from that and totally turned my life around in short order.

Here I was now, in 98 (this night at the AO, nearly 20 years later), successful in life and business, and in love and friendship. I had been with my husband 17 years by this time, and we had three beautiful boys 11, 9 and 8. I was a “successful” Scn’ist. Had trained early. Was the C/S for the local org for years and had received Kha Khan status. Just before the birth of my second child, I left staff, then was consulting in the field. I had FSM’d over 100 new people in, in a six month period (received power FSM “status”). Was recruited by USA mission, to be ED of the Org (my third son was about 2 at the time. Was ED for three years- and built that org while I was there. Was also working closely with AO. They sent me on interstate tours (in SO uniform-which I didn’t like). Along with a "partner in crime", I was active on the board for our Scn school here, active on the OT committee, and was highly awarded for contribution in “making” the AO St Hill Size.

Long gone, was my pre Scn history. I had let that go the day I arrived in Sydney (my 21st birthday), when I shut the door of the truck, and said goodbye to the truckie who I had hitched a ride with from Perth.

But now, on this night in 98, somehow this horrid part of my life (in 79) had relevance. Why would this be brought up? What did this have to do with anything?

Somehow, and I don’t remember why, all the degraded incidents of this time, were pushed in my face. It didn’t matter that there were no reads, or no charge and that the “happiness rundown” had “handled” any lingering shame blame and regret in my universe.

I had no fight in me this night. I complied. Wanted to keep the peace (have always felt bad about my short wick and causing trouble, cause I like harmony and do aspire to creating circumstances where that can be). While these guys were next door, I had to give accounts of every degraded dirty sexual encounter. At times, I had given the account, but then after instruction through the ear piece obviously, Shane would go back and pick up something supposedly finished with – and ask for the most GRAPHIC, SPECIFIC, MINUTE detail possible, on every little thing. I was getting more and more solid and more and more introverted. This wasn’t sec checking. There was no regard for what did or didn’t read. It was just like they had grabbed my hair at the back of my head , and were pushing my face into the mud, further and further. Having the mob next door watching/listening, made it all the more intimidating.

What was their intent? Did they just want to cave me in, force me into submission to being “a good little girl”, punish me for being a thorn in their side, or what? Were the evil pricks also out for some kind of weird, kinky, perverted sexual gratification, by pulling everything apart and insisting on such graphic detail? Why grind me down, and intimidate the fuck out of me, by requiring such an insignificant smutty account of everything to the nth degree?

To this day, I don’t really know why I complied. Some damage from that night still lingers. I can think about it analytically, but it doesn’t make sense. I can generally muster strength, especially when the chips are down, but I was “beaten”, and that night I was “theirs”.

Got out of their around 2.30am. Don’t know how I got home. Enough for now.

[Panda Termint]

Dear Ceedia,

FWIW I do know there was several of us at that time that knew you had done no wrong with BOB the dub in king. We saw the injustice, but I had no idea on the "auditing" you were getting.

I am so sorry for your experience. I had an interview like that, the hysteria that it can turn on is frightening.

Feral
Dear Ceedia,
Thank you so much for setting the record straight, you're a brave soul and I respect you enormously.
I echo Feral's statement here, anyone who knew you also knew it was a load of codswallop. I had a particular enemy of yours (E.A.) work me over for 45 minutes on reasons why I shouldn't trust you and all I kept thinking was, "Christ, they're gonna crucify her so they can have a head-on-a-pike!"
It has always struck me as a massive cover-up for momentous SO blunders.
I apologise unreservedly to you and your family for not being more diligent in supporting and defending you in those dark days.
Love, Panda :flowers:

[Feral]

The only consolation is they did not charge you.

It truly sounds horrible. I can see that they couldn't stand it that you were fighting and set out to drive you into apathy.

True "black scientology"

Well at least the 'reverse auditing' always works

[Div6]

Ceedia,

Shooting the upstats is always the first action of the truly degraded. In talking this over with some higher trained people who also left during the institution of the Inquisition in Scn, I found that this whole "I'm not auditing you" thing was created and sanctioned during John Eastments brief tenure as Snr C/S Int. His "think" (encouraged by DM) was that since it "wasn't auditing" then the auditors code need not apply! (Last I heard Eastment was stuffing CD's into envelopes at Gold.) Scn IS NOT Scn in the absence of the Auditors code, as LRH made quite clear....so any one that does not apply it does not think their fellow man is worthy of the respect enshrined in that code.

We have a similar fixation on torture at the higher levels here in the US...Abu Gharib, etc. Those pictures were circulated amongst the high level Defense Dept execs long before the story "broke". Its almost like they KNOW they can't fix people....they can only think up new ways to degrade them.

So Scn no longer "applies the correct technology". That's one reason why they pulled in "Anonymous".

[nexus100]

(snip)

"Shooting the upstats is always the first action of the truly degraded."

Div6, why do you think this happened? If people were aware of harmonics and how they affect daily life would they have practiced this sort of charade? Are harmonics true, and if so, why is it kept secret, in your opinion?

I believe there are no degraded beings. There are only those at a lower harmonic point. And without care YOU might be there, whenever. One doesn't decide one is above the fray, one releases from it. My opinion.

[Neo]

Thanks Ceedia for telling your story. To think so much sordid things took place in the name of Scientology right here in ANZO. Makes me even madder that I dedicated myself to a group that would do such a thing. Well, on behalf of those that do care and did think Scientology could make a difference I'm sorry you were put through that.

And it makes such a difference for you to be so honest about what happened to you. Thank you.

Neo

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip>... What was their intent? Did they just want to cave me in, force me into submission to being “a good little girl”, punish me for being a thorn in their side, or what? Were the evil pricks also out for some kind of weird, kinky, perverted sexual gratification, by pulling everything apart and insisting on such graphic detail? Why grind me down, and intimidate the fuck out of me, by requiring such an insignificant smutty account of everything to the nth degree?.. <snip>Voyeurism for sure! - I saw a lot of that 'restimulated' in scientologists.. My own 'life history' when joining the GO.. My first 'decent' version got rejected.. I felt like telling then to go fuck themselves.. I can't get into my head that I actually did eleborate on it.

I was close to a similar incident. I girl I was very fond of got a lot of ethics handling because of 'out 2D'.. Which she wasn't, and in any case it was her private life.

I got a taste of it myself. Sea Org missionaire accused me of beating up my wife. His interest was to get her to come to Portland, at the other side of the planet, and chant 'Not a single dime for Larry Wollersheim'e!', outside the courthouse. I didn't 'deny' my wife going. She was 8 months pregnant. But I did say I was against it and considered it a singularly bad idea...

Which caused the Sea Org missionaire to conclude I beat her up!

He was an OT.. He lived on a higher 'spiritual plane' than I did..

And I'm aware of several more of this kind of 2D 'flaps' happening in my short time on staff.

The stories abound on the internet. Looks to be quite common.

Hmmm.. It IS quite mysterious why this action was taken against you Ceedia.. Quite counterproductive any way you look at it. And unclear why anyone would take BOB seriously..

:yes:

[Carmel]

Dear Ceedia,
Thank you so much for setting the record straight, you're a brave soul and I respect you enormously.
I echo Feral's statement here, anyone who knew you also knew it was a load of codswallop. I had a particular enemy of yours (E.A.) work me over for 45 minutes on reasons why I shouldn't trust you and all I kept thinking was, "Christ, they're gonna crucify her so they can have a head-on-a-pike!"
It has always struck me as a massive cover-up for momentous SO blunders.
I apologise unreservedly to you and your family for not being more diligent in supporting and defending you in those dark days.
Love, Panda :flowers:
Thanks for data Panda. Penny dropped for hubby and I when we read this, and appreciate the info. Makes sense of lots of stuff, that occurred around that time. Didn't know (or think) that the likes of EA were part of the picture, but then, no doubt she would have been. She was everyone's best ole "long lost buddy" when ya saw her, but that's how she played the game.
I appreciate your apology, and know it was heart felt, but it is only those who knew but refuted the truth, who should be apologising :) .
Spot on, on the point re ""massive cover-up for momentous SO blunders". The blunders were horrendously momentous, and the frantic cover up WAS massive (seen it many times, to varying degrees).
Love,
Ceedia

[Carmel]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for your responses and additional data/info.

I decided to post this stuff, cause after FSMing so many "in", I have felt a degree of responsibility in regard to FSMing people "out". One on one is good, but also the more readily available communication about hard cold truths, the better.

As it turns out, posting this crap has been good for me personally (which is something I didn't anticipate). I felt shakey on pushing "submit" on my first post - cause my identity would then no doubt be revealed. And then I felt quite sick and anxious about submitting the data on the 2nd interview, because of its personal nature.

After your responses I am chilling out big time - not only about data I didn't have, about your understanding and acceptance - but also about the relief/freedom of having nothing left to hide. There's nothing they can hold over me now, so I am truly free to operate without reservation.

All good! (as is the account of the next night in the AO, which I'll probably write up and post tomorrow).

Hey OSA - Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :no:

Cheers and love folks :thumbsup: ,
Ceedia

[Div6]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for your responses and additional data/info.

I decided to post this stuff, cause after FSMing so many "in", I have felt a degree of responsibility in regard to FSMing people "out". One on one is good, but also the more readily available communication about hard cold truths, the better.

As it turns out, posting this crap has been good for me personally (which is something I didn't anticipate). I felt shakey on pushing "submit" on my first post - cause my identity would then no doubt be revealed. And then I felt quite sick and anxious about submitting the data on the 2nd interview, because of its personal nature.

After your responses I am chilling out big time - not only about data I didn't have, about your understanding and acceptance - but also about the relief/freedom of having nothing left to hide. There's nothing they can hold over me now, so I am truly free to operate without reservation.

All good! (as is the account of the next night in the AO, which I'll probably write up and post tomorrow).

Hey OSA - Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :no:

Cheers and love folks :thumbsup: ,
Ceedia

"People withhold overt acts because they conceive that telling them would be another overt act. It is as though Thetans are trying to absorb and hold out of sight all the evil of the world. This is wrong-headed, by withholding overt acts these are kept afloat in the universe and are themselves as withholds entirely the cause of continued evil." - HCOB Justification

Thank you for ridding the world of more evil.

[Emma]

You're a brave soul Ceedia. Telling your story can't have been easy. I hope you can physically feel the love and acceptance you have with us.

[Div6]

(snip)

"Shooting the upstats is always the first action of the truly degraded."

Div6, why do you think this happened? If people were aware of harmonics and how they affect daily life would they have practiced this sort of charade? Are harmonics true, and if so, why is it kept secret, in your opinion?

I believe there are no degraded beings. There are only those at a lower harmonic point. And without care YOU might be there, whenever. One doesn't decide one is above the fray, one releases from it. My opinion.

As-isness can only occur with the proper assignment of source or authorship. Since the ability to perceive source is the key to solving problems, such people have enormous numbers of problems, but never seem to describe the real problem; thus they seem quite baffling. And not being able to "As-Is", they resent any one who can, or who shows greater ability than they do.......this also ties in to the "No Source - Total Source - Awareness of Sources" scale. People in "total source" show innate resentment towards others as since they cannot be "source" they must be "bad influences".

The primary source of degradation is the inability to duplicate on any dynamic. Duplication being mechanically necessary to then be able to "as-is".

[Terril park]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for your responses and additional data/info.

I decided to post this stuff, cause after FSMing so many "in", I have felt a degree of responsibility in regard to FSMing people "out". One on one is good, but also the more readily available communication about hard cold truths, the better.

As it turns out, posting this crap has been good for me personally (which is something I didn't anticipate). I felt shakey on pushing "submit" on my first post - cause my identity would then no doubt be revealed. And then I felt quite sick and anxious about submitting the data on the 2nd interview, because of its personal nature.

After your responses I am chilling out big time - not only about data I didn't have, about your understanding and acceptance - but also about the relief/freedom of having nothing left to hide. There's nothing they can hold over me now, so I am truly free to operate without reservation.

All good! (as is the account of the next night in the AO, which I'll probably write up and post tomorrow).

Hey OSA - Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :no:

Cheers and love folks :thumbsup: ,
Ceedia

Well half the board here seems to know who you are. Being a Pom I have no clue. If you want to state your real name I nominate you for the first story on Blownforgood's new website.

I think you've just let the world know of a new type of crime, covert gang bang sec checking.

Go girl:)

[nexus100]

As-isness can only occur with the proper assignment of source or authorship. Since the ability to perceive source is the key to solving problems, such people have enormous numbers of problems, but never seem to describe the real problem; thus they seem quite baffling. And not being able to "As-Is", they resent any one who can, or who shows greater ability than they do.......this also ties in to the "No Source - Total Source - Awareness of Sources" scale. People in "total source" show innate resentment towards others as since they cannot be "source" they must be "bad influences".

The primary source of degradation is the inability to duplicate on any dynamic. Duplication being mechanically necessary to then be able to "as-is".

Boy, are we looking at it differently. But each to his own.

[Tanstaafl]

Isn't as-isness, by definition, an absolute?
Isn't the only absolute a static?
A static cannot have a location in space - even by consideration.
When incidents are "erased" they merely cease to be created - this is not unmocking.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for your responses and additional data/info.

I decided to post this stuff, cause after FSMing so many "in", I have felt a degree of responsibility in regard to FSMing people "out". One on one is good, but also the more readily available communication about hard cold truths, the better.

You:yes: said a mouthful there, kid!

As it turns out, posting this crap has been good for me personally (which is something I didn't anticipate). I felt shakey on pushing "submit" on my first post - cause my identity would then no doubt be revealed. And then I felt quite sick and anxious about submitting the data on the 2nd interview, because of its personal nature.

Yeah, the "right thing" is not only hard to know but also, often, hard to do.:thumbsup: Betcha ya feel even better later! :whistling:

After your responses I am chilling out big time - not only about data I didn't have, about your understanding and acceptance - but also about the relief/freedom of having nothing left to hide. There's nothing they can hold over me now, so I am truly free to operate without reservation.

Do we read this to mean that you are ready to kick some serious ass now? :confused2: :coolwink: :D

All good! (as is the account of the next night in the AO, which I'll probably write up and post tomorrow).

:buzzin: :woohoo: :blowkiss: :gimmesome: :drama: :waiting:

Hey OSA - Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :no: :omg: :giveup: :tiptoe:

Cheers and love folks :thumbsup: ,

And love to you right back! :yes: :kiss: :bighug: :console: :arose:
Ceedia

Get busy now an wrote moar!:whistling:

[Flag-2005]

"Then Shane Brockdorff - an old flat mate of mine, co TTC member (we “trained” together), once Snr C/S ANZO, and Class 9 auditor, turned up to “audit” me."

Very sad tale and credit to you for staying sane.

That is what they wanted.. to drive you nuts. They probably hoped you would kill 'Bob'.

Your history there must have been reputable and so if you were leaving they needed to 'make up' a reason for your leaving.

per the tech 'you have withholds' so they wanted to make some as you know.

Really a 'lose / lose' situation for everyone.

Shane was ment to come back from Flag and boom the place..
What a dick for not holding his space..

A similar thing happened at FSO to two OT VIIs in these videos.

http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/free-barnes.htm

Because they were questioning tech revisions the NAY checks were used to force a listing questions on them in attempt to drive him crazy.

ps I enjoy your posts and I'm glad you have a lot to say, especially your colorful language increases my havingness. I have not heard a chick talk like that in a long time. :)

But I nearly cry when I read this from your other post.

"....I can't speak for the others, but I was a broken person, with a broken life - without a friend or someone that I could turn to for help, for the two years it took me to find some kind of resolve (ANZO is small, and there was no ESMB then). If it wasn't for my kids, I don't know how I would have survived that period. Since that time, I have helped many broken people with broken lives. You have no idea what I know, and what I have been subjected to."

makes me mad :angry:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Posted by Flag 2005 re Ceedia:

ps I enjoy your posts and I'm glad you have a lot to say, especially your colorful language increases my havingness. I have not heard a chick talk like that in a long time. :)

Yeah boy! :yes:

But I nearly cry when I read this from your other post.

Me too (some tuff guy huh?) :bigcry:

"....I can't speak for the others, but I was a broken person, with a broken life - without a friend or someone that I could turn to for help, for the two years it took me to find some kind of resolve (ANZO is small, and there was no ESMB then). If it wasn't for my kids, I don't know how I would have survived that period. Since that time, I have helped many broken people with broken lives. You have no idea what I know, and what I have been subjected to."

Ceedia not so broken now IMHO...she HOT chick now! :eyeroll: :happydance: :thumbsup:

makes me mad :angry:[/QUOTE]

This (and so much else too) angers me as well, Flag! :grouch: One of these day the right target will come into view...and then - watch my smoke! :yes: :omg:

Roy, the EP's EP

[Flag-2005]

makes me mad :angry:

This (and so much else too) angers me as well, Flag! :grouch: One of these day the right target will come into view...and then - watch my smoke! :yes: :omg:

Roy, the EP's EP

Cool.. Well have roasted SP to throw on the Barbe.

I like mine 'burnt' :angry:

[Carmel]

Thanks for your post and your care.


[QUOTE=Flag-2005;142095]
Your history there must have been reputable and so if you were leaving they needed to 'make up' a reason for your leaving.

per the tech 'you have withholds' so they wanted to make some as you know.
Yeah spot on, they were somewhat "successful" in bringing me into disrepute, to lessen any influence that I might have.

Panda said in an earlier post that a senior SO Exec was working on him for 45 mins trying to do just that. While I was shocked to read that and while it upset me initially, penny dropped on what they were hell bent on doing. I had taken the whole thing too personally. There are always varying degrees between what "is" and what "isn't", but getting closer to the truth of their intent certainly blew something for hubby and I yesterday.


Shane was ment to come back from Flag and boom the place..
What a dick for not holding his space..
FYI, he joined the SO very young. After his first trip to Flag, when he arrived back in 83 as part of the first crew for the new AOSH ANZO, sadly he had already "changed". And, many years have passed since then. Hard to "hold your own" in the kind of environment that he has been so caught up in.


A similar thing happened at FSO to two OT VIIs in these videos.

http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/free-barnes.htm

Because they were questioning tech revisions the NAY checks were used to force a listing questions on them in attempt to drive him crazy.
Yes, great video (one of my favourite fsming "tools" these days. :giggle:)


But I nearly cry when I read this from your other post.

"....I can't speak for the others, but I was a broken person, with a broken life - without a friend or someone that I could turn to for help, for the two years it took me to find some kind of resolve (ANZO is small, and there was no ESMB then). If it wasn't for my kids, I don't know how I would have survived that period. Since that time, I have helped many broken people with broken lives. You have no idea what I know, and what I have been subjected to."
Hey, it all turned out good in the end :yes: . While the above was true, I was just cranky at ABJ's at the time when I wrote that post.

All good this end Flag -2005! Looking forward to when it's all good all round. Am pleased to be working on that now, after being "dormant" in regard to this scene for years.

Cheers,
Ceedia :thumbsup:

[Flag-2005]

Hey I was hoping for some colorful language. :)

Im glad too that it is over for us and ending for others..

This place is a definate place for healing, and it happens fast!

[Carmel]

[QUOTE=EP - Ethics Particle;142128]
Ceedia not so broken now IMHO...she HOT chick now! :eyeroll: :happydance: :thumbsup:
Sorry to disappoint EP - but Ceedia not hot chick! :no: .Ceedia nearly 50 now, and bit of an ole hag! (gravity aint kind to wimmin!). Besides that, Ceedia not a "looker" in first place.:bigcry: :D
Have ta go pick on someone else huh? :coolwink: Good luck matey! :p

[Carmel]

I had gotten to bed late after the second night at the AO. In the morning, I got my hubby to handle the logistics with the kids, and I went back to sleep. I had no concern for work or cycles needing my attention. I didn’t want to confront the world, I just wanted to hide from the world and go back to sleep – I did.

I woke up, surprisingly well rested. I was keyed in, but was looking at what went down. I had breaky outside with the birds and the trees. I was looking at things somewhat analytically/rationally. “Yes, I had put myself in their hands”. “How fucked were they, to take me back there in that fashion”. “How could anyone if not powered by “evil”/“the black side”, be so cruel”. “How could anyone put another, through such a gruelling, harrowing experience?”

I didn’t mention in my post about that horrid “interview/session”, that the “auditor” was evaluating and invalidating as we went along. He said stuff like “God, that’s gross!”. “Did you think that that was OK at the time?” “Do you think it’s OK or acceptable still?” – and such variations with inflections/emphasis on certain words , in order to invalidate/introvert me. It worked at the time, but now the next day as I was looking at it, I could see how evil it actually was (and rightly or wrongly, I thought about how anal, and sexually naive that no doubt he was – joining the SO as a kid. Somehow that helped). That detached me somewhat from what went down, and something “shifted” for me in regard to that “interview” (after which I felt like a rotting piece of shit).

However, I was still very “lossy” and very sad – about what I had “lost” and about the future. This was a group of people I had worked with and for, for many years. I had all ready been through the grinder I had thought, after months of sec checks and ethics handlings o/w write ups, face rips, and worst of all being ignored and not spoken to by any and all crew/staff/field (I could see people give me a side way glimpse, but then quickly look away – they wouldn’t dare be seen talking to me). And what about Scientology – the “thing” that helped me save my life and start a new life (and the thing that I had used, to help so many others do the same). OT levels (and what they promised) were never really a button for me. Living life with the tools for life to create better circumstances for myself, my family and friends and all – was! It had become my life. That was now all down the gurgler. I knew that my life in Scn was over, I couldn’t be part of that game and keep up the fight anymore. I was introverted and lonely about how and why things were always so difficult for me, and why I never seemed to “fit” or “belong” anywhere.

That aside, I was trying to work out how to slip away, without getting declared. For various reasons (that I now consider inane), this was of major concern to me. At this point, I could not accept the prospect of putting my boys into a position down the track, where they’d have to either forfeit me or Scn (stupid in hindsight). I kept going over and over in my mind, how I could play this out, without a label.

In the afternoon, I was driving the boys to some sport thing. We were all “talking” in the car. Then my eldest said to me “Mummy, you’re talking, but you’re not listening”. It stung! It was true! I hadn’t been listening to them, and I hadn’t been there for them for months. I handled all their logistics and all, got them to school, rugby training, etc, etc, etc – but I had dropped them in regard to any kind of emotional or spiritual support. For whatever reason, I keyed in on this big time. I could barely pull the car over, and I just bawled uncontrollably (not something I would do). I couldn’t stop it. I was aware of the boys, but not of much, and had lost control.

This bit is somewhat embarrassing, but is significant:
I figure now, that my little darlin’s must have been looking out the window, with their big brown eyes, reaching for help. This “stranger” (a man much older than me), opened my driver’s side door, escorted me to the footpath, and just held me in his arms while I sobbed and sobbed. He said nothing. I settled. The man kissed me on the forehead, and walked on off, up the footpath. It was like he was an angel from heaven (without getting too spiritually significant/airy fairy or nuthin’).

I “lifted” from that point. Straight up! By night time, I was feeling strong. Had a call from org again. And this time, in my mind, it was “Yep, I’ll go in this one last time to end cycle”. I went in with a very different viewpoint, and different headspace. Somehow, they didn’t have me by the “short and curlies” now. The threat, seemed to have disappeared, and I felt like I was prepared to go into battle (I knew that I wouldn’t win the war, but I was determined to leave and end off on a point with some restored self esteem – desecrated entirely (although temporarily), the previous night.

I went into the org, with a “what now ya c’nts?”, type of attitude, but I had a calm cool front. I was ready to end cycle. Then I was told that I was going to be given a correction cycle by my original auditor (who had done some of my NOTS and done my sec check in the previous months). Back into the room. Again I saw CO OSA and those RTC missionaries go into the one next door. I was curious about that, and prepared for a trap. Next thing Shane walked in and locked the door as usual, with a nasty smirk on his face. This just made me step up! This time Shane was asking me for my crimes. “We know you have crimes, what are they?” “What are your crimes?” “What have you done?”and all sorts of variations of. But I had my trs right in this night, and was not feeling fearful, so very calmly turned it around – “No, what are your crimes? I’ve already given mine. What are yours?” “What have you done?” “What are you doing?” “What are you trying to do?”. I directed these questions to the “auditor”, and sometimes to the camera lense (with specific intent to the RTC MAA missionaire who looked like a clone of DM, except that he was tubbier – and had a sour look on his face ALL the time). My trs and confront, were way above my “auditor’s” that night. I used the opportunity to communicate to the whole four of them, and say things that I couldn’t in the last months, due to being cut off or pushed up against a wall for back flash or whatever. As much as he persisted, then so did I, and more. I was feeling more hatred than I had ever felt in my life, and I was flowing it. Shane told me that I was rock-slamming – I probably was (or maybe, don’t know - was certainly of the mind that I was confronting evil that night, and I wasn’t having loving thoughts). He must have been “beckoned” out of the room 3 times that night, and face ripped. I heard the yelling. He certainly wasn’t making me “crack” this night, and I was taking a win on that.

Then I told him, that I was done, that I had had enough, that they could declare me or whatever, but that I was going. I got up to leave. Shane was in front of the door and shoved me on the chair. I got up again, and we struggled. He was way taller and stronger than me, and I didn’t have Ax’s “incredible hulk” thing to call on – but I had lungs, and I used them. I started screaming - “let me out”, “help” at the top of my voice. I caused a racket as intended, and there was a knock at the door. It was Vicki, CO OSA. I “settled” and told her that I was going. She tried to “handle” me, but I told her that it was over, and that if she didn’t let me go, “right fucking now” that eventually my husband would be there to rescue me, and that I’d be going straight to the police when he did. I was calm and determined on the exterior, but inside, I was shaky. My heart was pounding and I felt like I was “in” way over my head. I didn’t like or respect any of these people, and certainly didn’t hold them in any kind of high esteem, and I had all but won this last battle, but still for some reason, I still felt the fear running through my veins. I pretended to be calm, then Vicki said “It’s OK, it’s all over, just go home and get some rest”, we’ll see you tomorrow. I said very obligingly “alright then, I’ll do that”.

I left the AO at that point. I got home, tidied up some admin cycles that needed handling, packed up some gear for the kids and me, organised some meals for hubby who would be home alone, and was set to take off out of the city for a few days, when the boys woke up.

Will tell you how it all ended up, in another post.

[FinallyMe]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRCCCCCHHH! I CAN"T TAKE IT when they cut to a commercial right in the middle of me holding my breath!!!!!!!!!!! PLEEEZE come back and finish!!!!

[EP - Ethics Particle]

[QUOTE]
Sorry to disappoint EP - but Ceedia not hot chick! :no: .Ceedia nearly 50 now, and bit of an ole hag! (gravity aint kind to wimmin!). Besides that, Ceedia not a "looker" in first place.:bigcry: :D
Have ta go pick on someone else huh? :coolwink: Good luck matey! :p

Ya know girl, EP pushin' 70 an in not too shabby condition either! :eyeroll: Maybe you oughta reconsider yr position on this viewpoint. :yes: Jus sayin...:whistling: Good EP able to see what really is of value. :yes:

Love ya girl and your tale is well and truly told (cept for a couple more installments I think...):coolwink:

Roy

[Jakadak]

As usual I read your posts and I was gobsmacked.... again. :omg: How they could do this to anyone is in my opinion...."evil". So glad that you were able to stand up to them. I don't know what I would have done in your position without all the training etc. that you have had. I would have been "broken" for sure !!! :nervous: Well done Ceedia! :coolwink: Prouda Ya !!! :thumbsup:

[Free to shine]

To me it shows just how far they will go to try and destroy someone of integrity who doesn't toe the line. It is positively EVIL. That someone like Shane, who obviously started with the same wonderful goals as all of us, could end up doing that...I am lost for words. I saw the change in EA when she joined the SO, and her wonderful humanitarian instincts were turned into tools of destruction.

Thankyou so much for telling it like it is, and for your courage. :thumbsup: :clap: :happydance:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

To me it shows just how far they will go to try and destroy someone of integrity who doesn't toe the line. It is positively EVIL. That someone like Shane, who obviously started with the same wonderful goals as all of us, could end up doing that...I am lost for words. I saw the change in EA when she joined the SO, and her wonderful humanitarian instincts were turned into tools of destruction.

Thankyou so much for telling it like it is, and for your courage. :thumbsup: :clap: :happydance:

Dear FTS - I don't wanna take anything away from the impact of yr most excellent post. :no: But, I gotta tell ya - when I get a look at that kitteh on the dog's head...well, I simply cannot be serious...not a bit! :hey: :giggle: :dieslaughing: :laugh: :roflmao: :hysterical:

Does that make me a J&D? an SP? :nervous: :confused2:

WTF cares, anyway - we're havin fun, aren't we? :yes: :happydance:

Roy/EP

[Free to shine]

Dear FTS - I don't wanna take anything away from the impact of yr most excellent post. :no: But, I gotta tell ya - when I get a look at that kitteh on the dog's head...well, I simply cannot be serious...

Thanks for making me laugh! All these aussie stories are making me quite emotional - so I changed my avatar for today to something more appropriate. :D

[boonies]

OMG
I can't stand it. Where are you? What happened?

You did damned good...how perfect your questions were. :happydance:

I really do see the pattern, as others have pointed out, of trying to degrade you with your overts. It happened to me, too, but on a much lesser scale, thank God. Someone else said they wanted to make sure they disgraced you. What they did to you is a horror story and evil to the core.

As you said, you took it more personally than it actually was, you now realize. Me too. I thought surely they'd broadcasted my overts to everyone I'd ever audited or C/Sed. But I found out later that they did not do this, because all of my PCs and public loved me and would know something was seriously wrong if they said those things about me.

Turns out they made up an acceptable story about how my mother had gotten terribly sick and I had to move back home to take care of her...good samaritan that I am. LMFAO :hysterical: What a fluckin crock-o-shit! :hysterical:

[Panda Termint]

Just as a comment on the RTC Missionaire in your story, I think it was Ty Webb;
it was his behaviour with the crew of AOSH ANZO that allowed me to give full creedence to the reports of physical and verbal abuse coming out of Int. :omg:
I couldn't believe it the first time I saw him abusing the AO C/S, a very sick Peter Sparshott, about a particular completion on the runway. Webb seemed to be thoroughly enjoying himself as he screamed a raved at one of the most wonderful Tech terminals Scientology has ever had. Peter was struggling bravely with illness that turned out to be cancer. I blame Ty Webb for ascerbating that illness and making Pete's life a living hell. :bigcry:
He was very definitely a Tinpot Despot in the DM mold and a complete arsehole. The level of fear-and-loathing amongst AO staff was palpable and the whole of ANZO breathed a huge sigh of relief when he was finally "promoted" back uplines.

[Free to shine]

I couldn't believe it the first time I saw him abusing the AO C/S, a very sick Peter Sparshott, about a particular completion on the runway. Webb seemed to be thoroughly enjoying himself as he screamed a raved at one of the most wonderful Tech terminals Scientology has ever had. Peter was struggling bravely with illness that turned out to be cancer. I blame Ty Webb for ascerbating that illness and making Pete's life a living hell. :bigcry:


Oh...:bigcry: Peter was a beautiful bloke, I met him first in 1967. How could some fucking turd do that to him? :grouch:

[Feral]

Hells bloody bells!:omg:

You are a fighter girl!!!! I was breaking out in a cold sweat reading that. :boxing:

How wonderful of that old guy to come and rescue you! a complete stranger!! It really choked me up.:bigcry:

[Free to shine]

Hells bloody bells!:omg:

You are a fighter girl!!!! I was breaking out in a cold sweat reading that. :boxing:

How wonderful of that old guy to come and rescue you! a complete stranger!! It really choked me up.:bigcry:

I meant to mention that too. It's bloody amazing when it happens - I've had a few similar experiences, and it helped restore my faith in the good in the world. There are really some amazing people out here in the normal world!

[Carmel]

[QUOTE=Panda Termint;142227]Just as a comment on the RTC Missionaire in your story, I think it was Ty Webb;
it was his behaviour with the crew of AOSH ANZO that allowed me to give full creedence to the reports of physical and verbal abuse coming out of Int. :omg:
I couldn't believe it the first time I saw him abusing the AO C/S, a very sick Peter Sparshott, about a particular completion on the runway. Webb seemed to be thoroughly enjoying himself as he screamed a raved at one of the most wonderful Tech terminals Scientology has ever had. Peter was struggling bravely with illness that turned out to be cancer. I blame Ty Webb for ascerbating that illness and making Pete's life a living hell. :bigcry:
Yes, it was Ty Webb (well I knew his last name was "Webb" and the name "Ty" rings a bell). We were never introduced actually. The first words I got from him were "SIT DOWN"!
Peter was a real honey - a smart man and a good man, as were our other mentors of the same calibre who were so badly beaten and left hung out to dry.


He was very definitely a Tinpot Despot in the DM mold and a complete arsehole. The level of fear-and-loathing amongst AO staff was palpable and the whole of ANZO breathed a huge sigh of relief when he was finally "promoted" back uplines.
Yep, but "arsehole" too kind! So many talk about the Matt Henderson Mission. The Matt Henderson mission was nowhere as bad as this 97 one IMO. The Henderson one was "bad", cause we'd never seen anything like it, and were having a relatively easy ride til then. By 97, we'd seen and experienced much more, and the group had become more "tolerant" and "used to" to this kind of "off the wall" stuff. If that dude and his nasty, anal, robot, bitch "class 8", mission I/C (who was there with him), even attempted their heinous, insidious acts in ANZO, back in 83 - they both wouldv'e been decked I reckon. Angry just thinking about it :angry:

One time that dude was giving me a major face rip, for an honest opinion that I held. I wasn't being smart arse or back flashy or anything at this particular time. I was standing against a wall, and his face was about two inches from mine. He was screaming at me. I just slightly put my hand on his chest to back him off a bit, then he put his hand around my neck, and put me up against the wall. Then my fear turned to anger and I kneed him in the thigh, and did a block at his wrist to get his hand off my throat. He then called "HCO bring order". He said "restrain her". Then these two guys literally were on either side of me, with my arms locked in theirs (a 5'5", 38 year old female at the time). Then he had the audacity to charge me with striking an SO member. When I told my hubby later, he didn't/couldn't believe it. When I told another friend, he didn't/couldn't believe it either. They thought I must have tried to smash him first or something. Not being believed, was worse than the incident itself, but then - who would believe it.

I could see all the crew walking around in fear while that guy was there (when I wasn't hating him, I was in fear of him too). God help the many who are still trapped in a scenario like this.

Thanks for the data, but geez it makes me mad. Peter was such a good man. I didn't know he was subjected to that. Like a few of his good ole techie mates (Harry included of course), he would have died with a broken heart at what had transpired over the years, and that is just too sad and too hard to contemplate.

Ceedia

[Panda Termint]

[QUOTE]

Thanks for the data, but geez it makes me mad. Peter was such a good man. I didn't know he was subjected to that. Like a few of his good ole techie mates (Harry included of course), he would have died with a broken heart at what had transpired over the years, and that is just too sad and too hard to contemplate.

Ceedia

Just so you know, Pete actually wasn't too fazed by Webb's dramatisations. He saw it for what it was and was well aware of the direction that CofS was heading. He saw how upset I was for him after witnessing the incident and spoke to me in his usual pragmatic manner, "Don't ever let the bastards grind you down". I've never known anyone with less ego than Peter, he was an inspiration to me. According to Maureen, he was in good spirits in his last days and I'm sure he's happy to be free of the whole sorry lot now. :yes:

[Jimmymac]

Ceedia this is an amazing story. Sci works so hard blaming and fighting against so called Psycs and yet your story is a perfect example of abuse of both mental and spritual health.

I am gobsmacked that it did happen but not suprised.

I cant wait to hear the rest of your story :)

[Carmel]

Thanks for your feedback and care. And yes Emma, I can certainly feel the love and acceptance - truly warming :happydance:


[QUOTE=Feral;142231]You are a fighter girl!!!! I was breaking out in a cold sweat reading that. :boxing:
Yeah, thanks Feral. Truthfully, I had a bit of "fun" that night, while making a game of riling them up. I didn't give them anything. At times when he'd ask me for crimes, I had come backs like - "actually, me hubby aint been serving me so well these days, so last night after session I slipped over to Randwick, and found a stallion with the biggest donger, want to here about that?" "There were lots of sheep in NZ before I came over here, do you want all their names too?" The more it went on, the angrier he became, and of course, the better I felt (not so nice of me, but justified given the scenario). I certainly felt like I had the upper hand that night, but sadly, it was only one small battle.


How wonderful of that old guy to come and rescue you! a complete stranger!! It really choked me up.:bigcry:
Thanks for understanding on this. Three times in my life now, this sort of thing has happened to me, at most crucial points - hence me saying he was like an angel from heaven. Things for me would have undoubtedly taken a very different turn, had he not shown up at that very time, and had he not done what he did.

Love,
Ceedia

[Carmel]

[QUOTE=Ceedia;142241]

Just so you know, Pete actually wasn't too fazed by Webb's dramatisations. He saw it for what it was and was well aware of the direction that CofS was heading. He saw how upset I was for him after witnessing the incident and spoke to me in his usual pragmatic manner, "Don't ever let the bastards grind you down". I've never known anyone with less ego than Peter, he was an inspiration to me. According to Maureen, he was in good spirits in his last days and I'm sure he's happy to be free of the whole sorry lot now. :yes:
That's good to hear Panda. He was a stable man, so that makes sense. While he's free of the sorry lot, I am sad for what he would have undoubtedly gone through in the last years of his life.

Going through various trials and tribulations with the brass, both Pete and Harry gave their undying support. Just at the right moment there'd be a whisper in the ear "Don't let the bastards grind you down". I took it on board and held it close to my heart - just as I did them. I, like many, will be forever grateful to them, and miss them so.

[Carmel]

I hadn’t slept the night before, as I got home late from the AO, and I had work that I needed to have done, if I was going to be away. I woke the boys early and we left. I went up to stay with an old friend who I had trained with, holidayed with (our kids grew up together) and worked with.

I tried to explain to him what went down, but it was hard for him to understand what went down. It would have been hard for me too, if I was in his shoes, cause we’d never heard of this kind of thing happening in orgs before. In our naivety at the time, we were thinking that they must have thought that I was really “bad”. Neither of us had the picture at the time.

So what do do? I just wanted to "walk"/"get out". But he got me to “write it up”. He set me up on his dining room table, gave me the red and green vols, and I started writing it up. I found and used about 30 references in my reports, that directly and undisputably applied. They had been directly and undisputably violated. And for the hell of it, I wrote a cram on Shane (“auditor”) via Snr C/S Int (fat lot of use that would’a been). This took a couple of days, in between bush walks, some fun on a dirt bike, and play with the boys.

Meanwhile, the org had tracked me down. They were ringing him continuously. He was caught between a rock and a hard place. They were telling him that I’d be declared if he didn’t put me in the car right now and take me to the AO. They told him that I had blown a “Sec Check”, that they’d “missed” something on me, and they needed to clean it up for my sake. They told him that if he continued to give me shelter and continued to be in agreement with me, that he too would get declared. He was in a bit of a spin on this. I had put him in an awkward predicament, and I told him that I would go. He insisted that I finish the KR’s (write ups), which I did.

They were insisting that they talk to me, but he held his space, shielded me from that, and copped the wrath for not handing over the phone. I was doing OK. I could see that he was going into spin mode. Once the KR’s were done, he drove down to the AO to deliver the copies, and see the “powers that be”. He got back, and looked like a stunned mullet! He was sad and didn’t know what way to turn.

He gave me a copy of my comm- ev charges (hot off the press). I was being comm.-ev’d for all sorts of financial irregularities and stuff, putting org at risk etc, and several high crimes. The charges that stood out in the issue, were “out 2D”, and “blowing a sec check and refusing to return, despite numerous recovery efforts by many”. Lovely! While the issue was a shocker, it was just about laughable. It certainly is laughable as I think about it today.

After much deliberation, I decided to attend that comm–ev hearing, and I turned up with a “McKenzie friend”. Tell you about that fiasco in another post.

To my dear friend who "sheltered" me - ya know I love ya for that. The above is my perspective on what you were going through at the time. But, maybe yours is different. Feel free to share it here, then it'd be good to get together and have a laugh about it all, over a beer (but no doubt, I'll have a red :D )

Cheers,
Ceedia

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip>..comm- ev charges (hot off the press). I was being comm.-ev’d for all sorts of financial irregularities and stuff, putting org at risk etc, and several high crimes. The charges that stood out in the issue, were “out 2D”, and “blowing a sec check and refusing to return, despite numerous recovery efforts by many”. Lovely! While the issue was a shocker, it was just about laughable. It certainly is laughable as I think about it today.. <snip>Laughable.. Yes.. But this sort of shit was/is being taken seriously in the Sinister Cult of Scientology!

Remember that they've got "The only justice system in this sector of the universe that actually works!"

This is a great description of what that really is!

:yes:

[Supra]

Wow, what a fucking story.

My apologies Ceedia for not totally believing you then. But after reading about some of the shit that is happening in the U.S.A., I do now.:)

I'm glad when I was ordered back then to "Bring you in" that I refused.

And NOW!! I must seem to them to be 15 tons of concrete, coz I ain't budging one bit.

I hope the fuck OSA reads this. Come after me you gutless scum, but you wont get me, because you've got nothing on me.

You can try and squash my business, try and sick the Tax departments on me, drum up some crimes for the police, whatever, but none of it will work because I'm clean.:thumbsup:

quick story..

I remember once racing around back then making things go right as Thursday 2 O'clock approached knowing I needed to leave the Org as my wife was expecting our first baby. And I did make things go right including organising a replacement.

I R factored the temp ED Kerry E that I had to zip off due to the birth.
But get this,... she said I couldn't go. "WHAT ? ? ? well I'm going ! "
She said "if you go I will have you declared". I said "I dare you"

anyway...

I saw Ceedia do fantastic things in the Org. Got it humming, confronted the refunds and uncrossed the cash/bills, etc etc.

The seniors should have pampered her. They should have done ANYTHING to back her up. She was a zealot for operating on standard policy.
But did they back her up? NO!

Can you believe that?? THEY DIDN'T BACK HER UP. THEY CRUCIFIED.

Good on ya darl, I feel prouder now than ever before to be your friend.

And guess what scum bags Webb, VH and the lot.... Your day is coming.

Hate to tell you this but TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.

You better go and word clear, M9, whatever, the tone of "Can't hide" in the hope of trying to asis it. Coz that's where you are going to be at.

Gee... isn't it nice to take the suppress off those incidents that just should never have happened.

And isn't it great to have this web site. Love to all Supra.

PS: Maybe I should tell a few more of my friends still on lines that I'm out!

[MarkWI]

[...] You can try and squash my business, try and sick the Tax departments on me, drum up some crimes for the police, whatever, but none of it will work because I'm clean.:thumbsup: [...]

I actually witnessed OSA doing all that to someone. The sad part is that at the time it was totally fine with me because he was an SP. :duh:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

...deletions...

Gee... isn't it nice to take the suppress off those incidents that just should never have happened.

And isn't it great to have this web site. Love to all Supra.

PS: Maybe I should tell a few more of my friends still on lines that I'm out!

I highly recommend doing this - just with a light touch; like "Just thought you ought to know that I've chosen not to pursue scn any futher - but wiill always be your friend and here for you"

Had luck with this just recently - may will tell about in future.

Roy

[Feral]

Well, on OSAs suggestion I did two tonight, gee it went well. OSA didn't suggest it really, but they asked if that was what I was doing. I thought," geee, what a good idea"

I found out that in the last 8 years ACT org made about 25 scios. I am sure only a fifth are still "in", Well, I know over 30 that have gotten out in the last month!

LOL:happydance:

[Carmel]

Thanks for your post and validation :)


My apologies Ceedia for not totally believing you then. But after reading about some of the shit that is happening in the U.S.A., I do now.:)
No worries, they did a "number" on ya, as they did on others. Besides that, I didn't give you specifics at the time, cause I was feeling degraded. If I had then, as I have now, you probably would have gotten the full picture. Despite that you supported me, so all good :yes: .


She was a zealot for operating on standard policy.
Not how I would put it :nervous:, but I know what ya getting at, thanks :eyeroll: .


Gee... isn't it nice to take the suppress off those incidents that just should never have happened. And isn't it great to have this web site.
Yes, it certainly is!

Hey Supra, good to have ya on this side of the fence (after all these years). Harnessing some of that turbo charged power of yours, will certainly be an advantage. :D

Love,
Ceedia

[EP - Ethics Particle]

...deleted...

Hey Supra, good to have ya on this side of the fence (after all these years). Harnessing some of that turbo charged power of yours, will certainly be an advantage. :D

Love,
Ceedia

Hey guys! how 'bout turbo charged Dodge business coupe with big hemi-head engine circa 1955! Now there some serious iron! :nervous: :yes:

I know - you kids missed the realllly good times. :bigcry: :whistling: :D

Roy/EP

[Supra]

My new theme song by the WHO

DA DA DA DA DA DA


I'M FREE :coolwink:

[Good twin]

My new theme song by the WHO

DA DA DA DA DA DA


I'M FREE :coolwink:

.....And freedom tastes of reality.:coolwink:

[Carmel]

One of the “reasons” that I was in ethics trouble for months, prior to those last “interviews”, was because of a large dissemination cycle that I had orchestrated and run. On my comm-ev issue, there were many charges relating to this cycle, so, I’ll fill you in fairly briefly on what went down.

I had been off staff for about a year or so. My husband and I had set up and were running a Hubbard College of Admin in Sydney. I was also running a marketing business, and was a partner in a telecommunications business. We had scn’ists and non-scn’ists working for us.

I got a lead on an “opportunity” to use a potential advertising site in the centre of the city for dissemination. Stupid me took up the opportunity. The main benefactor for this project was a selectee of mine. To cut a very long story short (two years of much time and effort), we ended up with:
- an “exploding” fibreglass volcano (lights, smoke, etc)
- 30’wide x 20’ high, x 12’wide (from memory)
- With a 10’ x 10’ video screen on top (for advertising)
- on George St in Sydney (in the middle of the night life area in the CBD)
- with a 1.5 + 1.5 yr lease and option, including the right to sub-let.

We had initially been going for a 3 + 3 yr lease and option, but we changed this after our major benefactor was not able to secure funds that he thought he could, to fund the project. This was all understood and “agreed upon” by the then Marketing Exec Int Ronnie Miscavige, and the then ED ASI David Bloomberg.

There was a big outdoor opening planned, but we had a major storm that night. George St was flooding. We ended up having it inside. Nancy Cartright and an aussie singer/celeb Kate Ceberano, were there to do the opening. This night, a couple of senior ANZO Execs, and a couple of PR merchants from the field, were there taking all the kudos for the project being completed, and for the volcano being up and running. Dianetics was being advertised big time on the screen, and the volcano was drawing attention to it (we didn’t particularly like the look of the volcano btw, “not what the doctor ordered” actually, but we had no fall back on what was “delivered” :duh: ).

Months went by, our benefactor had major problems liquidating funds (those he had at hand, were "spent on" or "reg’ed for" the “usual”). We had to get creative, and organised to sell advertising minutes on the screen. That was just a big “no no” by the org, and they promised a benefactor. We tried to sell them on the concept that the sale of these advertising minutes, would not only handle the rent for the next however many years, but also leave us with plenty more funds, for further advertising. But, no go! We bought the line that they had another benefactor, and got it in writing from the then Captain of the AO.

The new benefactor was not forthcoming. I ended up with an overdraught that was getting bigger and bigger every month. We kept getting promises, and assurances etc. We were certainly strung along, for too long.

Given that I had it in writing from MEI (Ronnie Miscavige), that it was OUR project, and that whatever period of time we could maintain it would be a plus as far as management was concerned - we went ahead and organised a buyer for the lease. We wanted out, and selling the lease would have cleared the debts, and put us way in front – money that we had pledged to further dissem. Good solution all round ya would think.

We put it in writing to the ANZO Execs (or at least my hubby did in "good old aussie fashion"), to those we felt we needed to inform. The letter quite simply stated that we had a buyer for the lease, that the org had not been forthcoming with funds as promised, that no way were we going to take up the option and extend the lease – as we simply didn’t have the money to fund it. Also that, we were already in debt over it, that the “promises” for funds had been going on too long, and that we were going to exercise our right to sell the option (lease for 1.5 years). He stated that in doing this, not only will the volcano debts be cleared, but also there would be remaining funds that we were pledging to further dissem projects.

Went down like a ton of bricks. The three of us - my hubby, my long term scn comrade and I, were called into the org. All the top brass in ANZO (11 of them) were sitting in the AO conference room, around the big board room table, and they got us in there one at a time. I can’t remember how long they had each of the boys in there, but I was in there for about two hours. These execs all took turns at beating me down, beating me into submission, putting me down, accusing me of crimes I didn’t commit, invalidating the crap out of me, etc ,etc, etc. They were trying to find out what I had “done”, what my “real” intentions were, and what I was "hiding" and kept on hammering the point (eleven against one – it was gruelling). I was numb at the end of it, and literally couldn’t open my mouth. Was in such apathy, I think I was nearly dead. When the boys and I were allowed to get together, and got together after these interviews (about 3am in the morning), we could hardly look at each other and it was at least 15 mins before any of us could utter a word. We finally discussed what had gone down, and it was the same for all of us. We were all “beaten”. Hard to explain in words how it felt.

They had given us the reality factor that we were to buy four intensives of sec checking each, or that we would be declared. That’s where my “months of ethics” started, prior to those three nights of "interviews" just before I left the CofS.

I'll wrap this up now, and tell you about my comm ev in another post. It wasn't a "biggie" for me (I had already ended cycle), but given my circumstances and what went down, it is indicative of how corrupt the "justice" within the CofS is - so will get back to you.

[Axiom142]

Ceedia,

Thank you for telling us this and making your experiences public. I am hoping that this will inspire many more who are still in, to start questioning what they are doing and look at things for what they really are.

I am finding it difficult to find the words to express how I feel. Anger, sadness, disgust, empathy, outrage are some of the feelings that I get.

I was mostly offlines during this period, but I got involved again in a big way not long after. Although I was half a world away, at St Hill, I guess the same sort of things happened here as well. At the time, I didn’t really notice, although I should have. I suppose I didn’t really want to look, but the signs were all there if I had bothered to put it all together. The staff looking tired and miserable, stern looking missionaries and RTC reps stalking about, no appreciable ‘expansion’. On several occasions I heard various people screaming and shouting the most foul and abusive language at some unfortunate from behind some door in the castle.

The CoS likes to project a nice, warm, fuzzy, families smiling as they stroll through the countryside image. But the truth is very different. I know that most Scientologists would be shocked and disgusted to hear of what happened to you. Or at least they would if they could wake up long enough to look at the truth. The problem is, most wouldn’t want to believe it. On several occasions I have told Scns things that I have witnessed or know to be true, and you can see that they just cannot accept it.

The CoS tells people that they bring families and people together, but as we can see from your story, they will drive wedges between friends and break families apart. I am sure this is intentional. Isolated individuals are much more vulnerable and easier to coerce into doing what they want.

Well done on having the courage to get out and tell your story.

You mentioned NZ being ‘home’, are you originally from there? In any case, from my experience, Aussies and Kiwis don’t tolerable BS for very long. There seems to be a revolution going on ‘down under’ right now, I’m not expecting the CoS to last much longer there. The first ‘cleared continent’? I like the sound of that! :thumbsup:

Axiom142

[Jakadak]

I should rename myself from "Jakadak" to "Speechless", as the more I read the more shocked and gobsmacked I become. :omg:

To think that I used to look up to members of the SO with respect and admiration and thought they were doing the "right thing". Obviously some don't deserve that respect at all. :no:

I hadn't been in Scientology for as long as lots of people on this board but when I read what has happened to some of you while you were on staff and the in SO etc I find it "unbelievable" .... but I do believe it, that's for sure!

Ceedia keep posting, I don't mind being "speechless" Your stories are an eye opener. :omg:

Cheers,
Speechless formerly known as Jakadak :thumbsup:

[Supra]

Well done again darling on getting the story written.
Love Supra. :wink2:

[Panda Termint]

(snip)
I hadn't been in Scientology for as long as lots of people on this board but when I read what has happened to some of you while you were on staff and the in SO etc I find it "unbelievable" .... but I do believe it, that's for sure!


Yes, the betrayals visited on these very upstat scientologists by their own "church" do sound incredible!
I'm glad to hear that you believe it, Jakadak/Speechless, it's ALL true!
There are several here who can verify many of the details of Ceedia's story.
It was around this time that I first began seeing CofS spin-doctors for what they really are, self-serving liars. :grouch:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

...deleted text...

I'll wrap this up now, and tell you about my comm ev in another post. It wasn't a "biggie" for me (I had already ended cycle), but given my circumstances and what went down, it is indicative of how corrupt the "justice" within the CofS is - so will get back to you.

Is it OK for a "yank" to take a "bird" out fer drinks and dinner (or whatever ya call "goin out" down there ) to celebrate completin' this epic tale? :confused2:

Still wowed by that avatar, Ceedia - yes I am! :yes: :thumbsup:

And my original offer stands. :whistling: :D

[Feral]

Ceedia,

This is where I play a small part in your story. Rhonda Walker and Pat Malloy came to visit me. They wanted $20,000 to back up the 'massive push' on Dianetics that the volcano was going to create. They wanted to put LRH books in all the libraries. Long story short I paid them in the next couple of months as it was my goal too at that time:duh:

I was called into AOSH ANZO for an 'award' for having done this, they gave me a bibliography of Hubbards fiction. Which I appropriately oohed and aahed about. When my eye caught some boxes of books in the corner. I asked if they were the books I had donated going out to libraries.

'No they have been rejected by a library', says Rhonda. I lifted the flap and saw they were the old R&D volumes, they had just been replaced by new versions and the church had to get rid of this old stock. Getting some dupe to buy them sight unseen and donate them was better than putting them into a dumpster, which was the only other alternative.

It was not what I understood as 'putting Hubbard books in libraries'. What idiot would think an R&D was a good starting place for public? I could not believe my hard earned money had been used so badly.:bigcry:

A few years later I was again approached by Matt Rieves and the FBO for CLO. This time they wanted me to take over the lease on the site for the volcano. I was TOLD that I could sub-let the screen for advertising. I would make a lot of money!!! "Errr.....no thanks, why don't you sell it to someone in advertising??"

The whole thing looked like a poison challis to me, I wanted nothing to do with it. They sold it to Gareth Jekill. With in a short time it was pulled down.

[Carmel]

Ceedia,

This is where I play a small part in your story. Rhonda Walker and Pat Malloy came to visit me. They wanted $20,000 to back up the 'massive push' on Dianetics that the volcano was going to create. They wanted to put LRH books in all the libraries. Long story short I paid them in the next couple of months as it was my goal too at that time:duh:

I was called into AOSH ANZO for an 'award' for having done this, they gave me a bibliography of Hubbards fiction. Which I appropriately oohed and aahed about. When my eye caught some boxes of books in the corner. I asked if they were the books I had donated going out to libraries.

'No they have been rejected by a library', says Rhonda. I lifted the flap and saw they were the old R&D volumes, they had just been replaced by new versions and the church had to get rid of this old stock. Getting some dupe to buy them sight unseen and donate them was better than putting them into a dumpster, which was the only other alternative.

It was not what I understood as 'putting Hubbard books in libraries'. What idiot would think an R&D was a good starting place for public? I could not believe my hard earned money had been used so badly.:bigcry:

A few years later I was again approached by Matt Rieves and the FBO for CLO. This time they wanted me to take over the lease on the site for the volcano. I was TOLD that I could sub-let the screen for advertising. I would make a lot of money!!! "Errr.....no thanks, why don't you sell it to someone in advertising??"

The whole thing looked like a poison challis to me, I wanted nothing to do with it. They sold it to Gareth Jekill. With in a short time it was pulled down.
Geez Feral,

My blood is boiling over both parts of the story here.

For Christ's sake - why on earth would your money be spent on 'expired" R and D vols? Obviously some intervention by some senior wanting recovery on dead stock for the org or something. Not surprised with Rhonda involved - a totally ball-less woman if there ever was one, and I don't know how far south Pat may have gone. I wonder what went down there, ie who did what for what reason, and who was involved. Don't they get stats too for books into libraries? Struth! You must have felt absolutely sick about that!!! I'm sorry you copped it!

I can't believe that those bastards did such a turn around (or not) on the sub letting of the screen for advertising. They smashed our faces over the mere contemplation and audacity, to even CONSIDER aligning Dianetics with the likes of a sports store or the ANZ bank. We had it organised and were going to have one minute of Dn ad, then five other ads, then loop back to Dn ad. We were screamed at over this idea. "How could you possibly even think of advertising some wog company at the top of the Dns volcano, and have the Dns ad flanked by wog ones" (stuuupid they were, just damn stupid - great positioning it would've been, but they didn't see that :duh: ). It was a major "no go".

So how did they change their minds? Or did they in fact - was it just a con to get funds? Or were they just following some arbitrary order in the first place, in that zealous fashion, and then just flip tactics after some new senior on the telex line said to do so? Don't get it :confused2: ! Makes me fu'king angry, all over again! Bloody hell! Totally insane - that night in the AO confernce room, with all those Execs, I was scoffed at and ridiculed for the previous "suggestion" to sell advertising minutes - then later the fu'kers were trying to sell the idea to you? Can't make sense of it. And obviously need to bloody chill on it.

Hey, glad to know at least that you didn't buy into it. After Gareth bought into it, OSA was trying to forbid me to comm to him. We had some comm and I knew something was going on, but then the comm was cut, and I didn't know what went down. It's starting to make sense now, why they tried to and succeeded in cutting our connection.

Thanks for the data, although incredibly aggravating and quite bizzare!

[Emma]

Lisa Jekill was selling Scn books on Ebay at one stage. I audited that little primadonna once. Gareth was OK. Lisa was a PITA.

[Neo]

Lisa Jekill was selling Scn books on Ebay at one stage. I audited that little primadonna once. Gareth was OK. Lisa was a PITA.

She still sells Scio books on eBay.
Liesa Williams:
http://myworld.ebay.com.au/liesawilliams/
Gareth Jekel also sold through eBay. Perhaps on this account too.

Neo

[Emma]

She still sells Scio books on eBay.
Liesa Williams:
http://myworld.ebay.com.au/liesawilliams/
Gareth Jekel also sold through eBay. Perhaps on this account too.

Neo

Oh yes, I'd forgotten she still used Williams.

And you are right with the spelling of Jekel.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Lisa Jekill was selling Scn books on Ebay at one stage. I audited that little primadonna once. Gareth was OK. Lisa was a PITA.

Em give EP MU - hiz eyz roll op in hiz hed an he go komotozs sune!:ohmy: PITA?:confused2:

Roy (EP not well eddictd eye gess...)

[Good twin]

Lisa Jekill was selling Scn books on Ebay at one stage. I audited that little primadonna once. Gareth was OK. Lisa was a PITA.

Em give EP MU - hiz eyz roll op in hiz hed an he go komotozs sune!:ohmy: PITA?:confused2:

Roy (EP not well eddictd eye gess...)

PITA = pain in the ass

[SchwimmelPuckel]

PITA: Pain In The Ass, would be my guess..

QUOA! (Quit Using Obscure Acronyms)

:D

[EP - Ethics Particle]

[QUOTE=EP - Ethics Particle;142837]

PITA = pain in the ass:duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:

Thanks! :duh: I needed that.....

EP

[Carmel]

Yes, the betrayals visited on these very upstat scientologists by their own "church" do sound incredible!
I'm glad to hear that you believe it, Jakadak/Speechless, it's ALL true!
There are several here who can verify many of the details of Ceedia's story.
It was around this time that I first began seeing CofS spin-doctors for what they really are, self-serving liars. :grouch:
Thanks for your support Panda. Your understanding, data and perspective on the scene, has certainly helped me shift much in my universe :yes: .


Is it OK for a "yank" to take a "bird" out fer drinks and dinner (or whatever ya call "goin out" down there ) to celebrate completin' this epic tale? :confused2:

Still wowed by that avatar, Ceedia - yes I am! :yes: :thumbsup:

And my original offer stands. :whistling: :D
Sure EP, but my 6'2" hubby will want ta come along, after reading this thread and noticing your advances in previous posts :grouch: . Hubby good dude - he reckoned in last few days that I've spent so much time on computer, that I'm no use around here anyway, so was wondering if ya had any money and how much he'd get for me :bigcry:. Bloody lovely :no: :D !

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Thanks for your support Panda. Your understanding, data and perspective on the scene, has certainly helped me shift much in my universe :yes: .


Sure EP, but my 6'2" hubby will want ta come along, after reading this thread and noticing your advances in previous posts :grouch: . Hubby good dude - he reckoned in last few days that I've spent so much time on computer, that I'm no use around here anyway, so was wondering if ya had any money and how much he'd get for me :bigcry:. Bloody lovely :no: :D !

Nothin' here we can na handle wi ease darlin' - got plenny plastic an even "long green" if tht wha it takes! :eyeroll: :yes: Him an me see eye to eye fer sure! :unsure: :thumbsup:

Let ole Roy an EP handle things...you'll be jus fine. :yes:

Now! You rite moar?! :clap: :grouch: :confused2:

py/EP

[Carmel]

The comm-ev was a farce (as they usually are). Just like comm-ev’s in the past, judgement had already been made, but unlike previous comm-evs, I didn’t particularly fight the injustice this time.

The chairman did his thing, and it was obvious where he was at. As usual it was taped, and he was certainly “playing” the role, for those who would hear the tape. Two of the members “appeared” neutral, and one had her head down and obviously felt rotten about the whole thing (I even felt sorry for her a bit).

I was accused of much, and was asked to respond to the charges, so I did. I answered honestly, and gave the relevant info re each charge. I answered the questions that came up as a result of my responses, but those questions were few. In addition to that, the chairman asked many questions of his or the committees own making. It was surreal, cause if they had been listening to my responses in the first place, or actually looked at the data right in front of their faces, then the insanity of the questions would have been obvious. The questions were based on the assumption that I had admitted guilt on everything, and they were actually sec check questions, but just simply asked. I can’t remember them all, but the following are some:
- Have you had any other out 2D, besides the one with Bob? (didn’t have the one with Bob, what d’ya mean any other?)
- Have you been involved in any sort of prostitution since being in the church? (yeah, right!)
- Do you now feel remorse for blowing the sec check? (not a sec check, no remorse)
- Are you willing to resume the sec check? (not a sec check and no way)
- How much money have you made from the volcano? (none, cost me 75k directly, not including cost of intensives for “real’ sec check and lost income due to lost time )
- Is there anyone else who has made financial gain from the volcano? (no, only financial loss and a major mind fu’k)
- Are you intending on using Dianetics or Scientology in any way, which could result in financial benefit for yourself or others? (yeah right, like it’s there for the taking)

After the comm-ev, I was surprised that I didn’t get mad and/or react to those questions, but by that time I had had enough. I was over it, and I remember thinking “what’s the point?”

For whatever reason, I was just allowed to “fade away” after that. There were comm-ev findings and of course I was guilty of every charge – including out 2D, blowing a sec check, and ripping off the church for personal financial gain. There were recommendations, but I never got to do them. I had already left the church by then.

For the record – I have NEVER experienced and have NEVER seen or heard of a comm-ev, where the person was found innocent. Comm-ev’s were definitely NOT a fact finding body in my 18 years experience in the CofS. If a comm-ev was ever issued, it was a foregone conclusion to all of us, that guilt was already pre determined, and the comm-ev was just a formality that would just add salt to the wound.

In summary

My hubby , the boys and I started a new life after this. We closed up our businesses, left the city, and bought into a 37 acre “hobby farm” with two other partners. It was a great distraction in regard to my introversion, loneliness and “loss”. For two years after my last chapter in the org, besides some part time work and the kids, I just got stuck into working on the property - gardening, landscaping, tractor work, clearing barbed wire, clearing blackberries, old stumps etc. It was extroverting work which I was used to and liked (as a kid, we had a mixed farm – a family affair for sure – on the Canterbury Plains in NZ). It was the perfect move for us. The boys were 8, 10 and 11 at the time. The bush, the horses, the motorbikes, the dam, the tractor, the chooks, the dogs the pig, the space to run around (and even the bloody snakes) etc, etc, etc - made it a real adventure for them. Having “mum and dad” back in spirit again, wasn’t bad either.

Our eldest is back in the city now, working as an international flight consultant, and doing very well. We are very good friends - we talk a lot, he visits here, and we visit him. The youngest two are still living at home (thank goodness per me, maybe not per hubby), and will probably stay with us, till they finish uni or find a girl who’ll do for them what mum does. They love it on this property, and share it with their mates - motor bikes, bush bashers, go-carts, pool parties, bonfire gatho’s, a cabin to entertain their mates and/or girls, and not forgetting the odd game of cricket on the lawn or footy in the paddock.

Hubby still commutes to the city for work, but I am working on a small development project, which will mean that he will soon have more time for surfing (which he does all year round and loves). I love it here amongst the garden, the trees and the bush, and there’s nothing like seeing the kookaburra so happily perched on my clothes line, or the sound of the cockatoos when they arrive in their hundreds to pick on the pine cones from the trees over the back.

Things are good for us. I can’t say that I regret my time in Scientology – cause I don’t. It wasn’t all bad. It gave me life and love and through it I learnt so much. Everything has turned out for the best for me, and besides that, the various lessons I’ve learned, I wouldn’t be without. We have been fortunate – I am truly sorry for and feel for those who haven’t been!

I wrote up this final episode/chapter for the benefit of others (I thought). I felt I had an obligation to do so. But since doing so, I have been pleasantly surprised on what it’s done for me. I didn’t realise what a cloud I had hanging over me, until I wrote up this stuff, posted it, and got your responses. I had always taken the episode too personally, and to a large extent was still introverted on it. I am not now. I now see the whole thing as it was – an effort by the CofS to just shut me up, and stop any influence I might have, by putting me into a hole.

I’m certainly way out of the hole now :happydance: . I have my fight back, and have restored my purpose to help – but this time, I’m on the other side of the fence :thumbsup: .

Thank you Emma for the board and support, and to all of you for your support to me and to the many on the board. Luv ya for it :yes: !

Cheers,
Ceedia

[Good twin]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I DO love a happy ending.:yes:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

The comm-ev was a farce (as they usually are).

...deleted text...

I wrote up this final episode/chapter for the benefit of others (I thought). I felt I had an obligation to do so. But since doing so, I have been pleasantly surprised on what it’s done for me. I didn’t realise what a cloud I had hanging over me, until I wrote up this stuff, posted it, and got your responses. I had always taken the episode too personally, and to a large extent was still introverted on it. I am not now. I now see the whole thing as it was – an effort by the CofS to just shut me up, and stop any influence I might have, by putting me into a hole.

I’m certainly way out of the hole now :happydance: . I have my fight back, and have restored my purpose to help – but this time, I’m on the other side of the fence :thumbsup: .

Thank you Emma for the board and support, and to all of you for your support to me and to the many on the board. Luv ya for it :yes: !

Cheers,
Ceedia

All the love in the world right back atcha girl! :yes:

Hands down the best success story this Ethics Particle has ever had the privilege of acknowledging! :thumbsup: :clap: :happydance:

Roy and the EP's

[Free to shine]

Ceedia - isn't it wonderful that you have your voice here? :happydance: All those years we carried the baggage, even if it was put away in a box somewhere, and that load is a heavy one! It flavours every thought and action in some way, because that heap of shit is how we have been labelled and tossed away with, to cope or not.
Now it sees the light of day and can be shed. :thumbsup:

You're right about the Comm-evs! I remember one person being Comm-ev'd for starting the bloody school! And receiving a commendation at the same time. :confused2: Absolute insanity!

Thanks for your story, thank you.

[Supra]

Well done Ceedia.

Not so pleasing to read about what really happened but great to hear a good ending.

The farm sounds great (and I should know).

I feel like the future is brighter.

x x x x x x Supra :)

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Well done Ceedia.

Not so pleasing to read about what really happened but great to hear a good ending.

The farm sounds great (and I should know).

I feel like the future is brighter.

x x x x x x Supra :)

Where's that turbocharged avatar Supra Dude! :confused2: :waiting: :tease: :goodluck: findin just the right one, :yes:

[boonies]

Thank you for that "ending" as it seems just so normal. hehe

I'm finally feeling sorta normal myself.

What's the definition of normal anyway? haha
The new normal!

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Thank you for that "ending" as it seems just so normal. hehe

I'm finally feeling sorta normal myself.

What's the definition of normal anyway? haha
The new normal!

I, and I'm sure many others, were relieved to hear from you after the storm scene down your way. Keep us posted, please. While I am from the deep south I now live in the Northeast but still feel connected - particularly to New Orleans and Baton Rouge. Big grief on the loss in my tu.

As for defining "normal"...well, dear heart, from the sound of your posts - you are perfectly normal in thought and action. Take a win! :yes: The fact that you are beginning to feel "sorta normal" is HUGE progress, IMHO! :happydance:

PM me anytime and try to join the group in vegas next year. I plan to attend even though Vegas is not my favorite place by a long shot.

All the best to you and yours,

Roy

[Wirestripper]

Nothin' here we can na handle wi ease darlin' - got plenny plastic an even "long green" if tht wha it takes! :eyeroll: :yes: Him an me see eye to eye fer sure! :unsure: :thumbsup:

Let ole Roy an EP handle things...you'll be jus fine. :yes:

Now! You rite moar?! :clap: :grouch: :confused2:

py/EP


You are an uncouth barbarian! Even your English is fraught with pidgin and slang! :eyeroll: You offer to buy her inestimable charms like she was some Jerry-corner harlot....for shame!

I am sure Ceedia would be more in tune with a fashionable upscale man, with an Italian suit and a subtle mastery of the Intimate Arts.

And man enough to know that there would be no eye contact with Hubby in a devil's three-way x

That's right.....daddy's home! :coolwink:


----------------------------------------------

In all seriousness C, that fact that you are doing well with life, love and family after such a life-changing ordeal makes me think that someday...the evil of scientology will be no more! Good for you!

PS - two vodka martinis helped establish the eloquence of this post!

[Feral]

You are an uncouth barbarian! Even your English is fraught with pidgin and slang! :eyeroll: You offer to buy her inestimable charms like she was some Jerry-corner harlot....for shame!

I am sure Ceedia would be more in tune with a fashionable upscale man, with an Italian suit and a subtle mastery of the Intimate Arts.

And man enough to know that there would be no eye contact with Hubby in a devil's three-way x

That's right.....daddy's home! :coolwink:


----------------------------------------------

In all seriousness C, that fact that you are doing well with life, love and family after such a life-changing ordeal makes me think that someday...the evil of scientology will be no more! Good for you!

PS - two vodka martinis helped establish the eloquence of this post!


That's right! There must be no eye contact in a devils three-way!!!
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

[Carmel]

Thanks for all your support and encouragement folks! This little "exercise" of mine, has been way more beneficial than what I could have imagined. The last two or three days (especially), have been enlightening!

As I've said before, I was writing and posting this part of my story in order to give those in ANZO more reality on what does and has actually gone down within the CofS. Many knew/know me around these parts, and those who did/do would have taken my account of what went down, at face value.

As it turned out, it has had a great effect on me personally. I had no idea on how "sad" and "lossy" I still was, in regard to my experience and life within the CofS, as well as in regard to what I felt about myself. Writing, posting, getting feedback (on board as well as on personal lines), and getting data.....the truth finally.....has blown that lingering sadness and loss away! I truly have my life back now.

To a certain degree, those fuckers put me into a hole and shut me up for 10 years or so. Life for me HAS been good these last ten years, but I had no idea that I was still living a life/lie of self abnegation - until after I started posting on this thread.

Through posting this final part of my history in Scn (and through feedback), I've discovered how they so successfuly "dead agented"/"black PR'd me, to so many. I could never understand the "good roads fair weather" that I copped from so many when our paths crossed. I used to wonder "How could they believe this crap?" "Why would it make a difference?", "WTF has happened?", "Why don't I belong?", "WTF have I done?".

Well, it's apparent now (from emails and text messages I've had forwarded to me), that those in the field, didn't actually give a shit about my past, nor did they buy the black PR on the "Bob" story. They did though "buy" that I had gone "nutty" - that I be "best left well alone" for MY sake. I've heard the same "line" now, from various sources, and from the people who have been contacting me in the last couple of days, apologizing for buying it way back then.

How smart of OSA and the CofS! Of course people who I had worked with, fsmed, audited, C/Sed for, protected and helped, weren't going to just "buy" that I was a "bad egg". The "nutty"/"on the verge of type 3" line though, could and would fly (especially as I was so introverted up my arse after those bloody interviews and comm-ev). With much effort and attention on the part of OSA and CofS Execs - the "line" worked. People bought it. Bloody lovely! While I could certainly go off the wall and bloody nuts when I was cranky and faced with insideous injustices and the like - I wasn't anywhere near "nutty" or "type 3". To suggest that (let alone forward that line to the rest of the field), was a heinous crime.

I now understand it. Knowing what went down has blown away so much shit in my world! It's fully restored my self respect and my personal peace at heart (after all this time - I wasn't even aware that any of it needed restoring). I had erroneously assigned the reason/cause of my life crashing, to my own doing - when it wasn't at all! Knowing this has shifted mountains for me.

I now know what the Cof S did to me and so do others! They killed my spirit, had me cleverly packaged and submerged in a horrid dark place. Thank God and thanks to the help of many, I am no longer there! My strength and my purpose in life, is fully restored. I am content within myself and happy with my life. It feels good to have my passion and drive back, as it does being steeled in regard to my current endeavours.

Thanks and cheers folks!
Ceedia :D

[Kookaburra]

Great story, Ceedia! Thanks so much for writing it up.

It is this sort of story that ties in with similar stories from around the world that disabuses one of the idea that injustices, black dianetics, and various soul destroying practices were isolated incidents or something that occurred in some 'crazy' time period and don't happen any more.

The more stories like this get told, the more people will recognize the degree that evil has pervaded Scientology. Over the last two or three years I have come to realize that there is no possible salvage for Scientology. It is rotton to the core and must be destroyed utterly and completely.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Well, I've learned much reading your posts Ceedia.

a) I never picked you for NZ
b) I know that fuck and all its varianet were ripe inside Scn, but I never figured you to verbalize "count" with a silent "o".

Anyone else ever noticed that people who are put on "enforcing ethics cycles" become so anally retentive that they can't sit down for fear of sucking up the furniture?

I guess I was never exec enough to warrant such special treatment, but a camera in my face would have been a God'send. All my TRs would have been on the camera--f*** the auditor! I certainly understand how you felt--I never genuinely had the weight of a whole org on my shoulders but there were times when that's what it felt like.

It's a shame you didn't get 'examined' after these 'sessions'; the success stories would have made some really choice reading!

As for "Bob's" allegation of a triste in a cold shower in the Blue Mountains. I lived in the upper Blue Mountains for 6-8 years. If the two of you had been under the shower together, both your maps of Tasmania would have retracted into the mainland requiring cartegraphic modifications to Australia's southern coastline.

I was lucky in that I got out before DM's stranglehold, but because I had access to Ext Comm at the time, you can bet I would have been sending messages uplines if I got the chance.

I hope your writing these posts is as cathartic as is my reading them!

RPX

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Thanks for all your support and encouragement folks! This little "exercise" of mine, has been way more beneficial than what I could have imagined. The last two or three days (especially), have been enlightening!

...portion deleted...

I now know what the Cof S did to me and so do others! They killed my spirit, had me cleverly packaged and submerged in a horrid dark place. Thank God and thanks to the help of many, I am no longer there! My strength and my purpose in life, is fully restored. I am content within myself and happy with my life. It feels good to have my passion and drive back, as it does being steeled in regard to my current endeavours.

Thanks and cheers folks!
Ceedia :D

Passion? Did you say PASSION! :eyeroll: :ohmy: :happydance: :thumbsup:

EP in love for REAL now! :whistling:

Roy (the saner of the pair, maybe...)

[EP - Ethics Particle]

You are an uncouth barbarian! Even your English is fraught with pidgin and slang! :eyeroll: You offer to buy her inestimable charms like she was some Jerry-corner harlot....for shame!

Wirestripper my dear friend, I am duly repentant. It is true that I often take liberties with the English language; but remind you that it is my mother tongue, and I know it fairly well. Certainly well enough to use it in harmless and affectionate play.

Let me assure you that my respect, love and admiration for Ceedia knows no bounds; and her charms are indeed inestimable.

I am sure Ceedia would be more in tune with a fashionable upscale man, with an Italian suit and a subtle mastery of the Intimate Arts.

Brooks Brothers is more my style in sober truth - and subtlety is a personal thing for the most part. I am what I am, so what can I say?

And man enough to know that there would be no eye contact with Hubby in a devil's three-way x

Such meetings are a challenge for sure! But not impossible to handle, in my experience.

That's right.....daddy's home! :coolwink:

This woman is a free spirit, and "daddy's" presence or absence is only as significant as she considers it to be. This is the way with all worthwhile women - at least I have found it so.


----------------------------------------------

In all seriousness C, that fact that you are doing well with life, love and family after such a life-changing ordeal makes me think that someday...the evil of scientology will be no more! Good for you!

Yes, the evil spell is now null, void and has no power or hold over many here as a result of Ceedia's postings and those of others.

PS - two vodka martinis helped establish the eloquence of this post!

May I say that I prefer Beefeaters Gin - but then I am getting along in years and cling to tradition where it brings comfort. We are kindred spirits, or I miss my guess!

My best to you all,

Roy, The EP's EP

[Feral]

Dear Ceedia,

After reading your story I feel I have to unreservedly apologise. You see at about the time those interviews occurred a little whispering campaign came out that you were a 'little nutty'. When I read Panda's bit about the captain pulling him aside and talking to him I guessed it was to forward the OSA purpose of discrediting you.

My guess is that after that earnest attempt to introvert, or even spin you OSA put out the "she's a little nutty" line, I hate to say it but at that time you did look introverted, and so it stuck. It was at a time you undoubtedly needed friendship and support all of which the cult managed to isolate you from. I am very glad you have come through it and we have learned the truth.

Your friend Feral




Thanks for all your support and encouragement folks! This little "exercise" of mine, has been way more beneficial than what I could have imagined. The last two or three days (especially), have been enlightening!

As I've said before, I was writing and posting this part of my story in order to give those in ANZO more reality on what does and has actually gone down within the CofS. Many knew/know me around these parts, and those who did/do would have taken my account of what went down, at face value.

As it turned out, it has had a great effect on me personally. I had no idea on how "sad" and "lossy" I still was, in regard to my experience and life within the CofS, as well as in regard to what I felt about myself. Writing, posting, getting feedback (on board as well as on personal lines), and getting data.....the truth finally.....has blown that lingering sadness and loss away! I truly have my life back now.

To a certain degree, those fuckers put me into a hole and shut me up for 10 years or so. Life for me HAS been good these last ten years, but I had no idea that I was still living a life/lie of self abnegation - until after I started posting on this thread.

Through posting this final part of my history in Scn (and through feedback), I've discovered how they so successfuly "dead agented"/"black PR'd me, to so many. I could never understand the "good roads fair weather" that I copped from so many when our paths crossed. I used to wonder "How could they believe this crap?" "Why would it make a difference?", "WTF has happened?", "Why don't I belong?", "WTF have I done?".

Well, it's apparent now (from emails and text messages I've had forwarded to me), that those in the field, didn't actually give a shit about my past, nor did they buy the black PR on the "Bob" story. They did though "buy" that I had gone "nutty" - that I be "best left well alone" for MY sake. I've heard the same "line" now, from various sources, and from the people who have been contacting me in the last couple of days, apologizing for buying it way back then.

How smart of OSA and the CofS! Of course people who I had worked with, fsmed, audited, C/Sed for, protected and helped, weren't going to just "buy" that I was a "bad egg". The "nutty"/"on the verge of type 3" line though, could and would fly (especially as I was so introverted up my arse after those bloody interviews and comm-ev). With much effort and attention on the part of OSA and CofS Execs - the "line" worked. People bought it. Bloody lovely! While I could certainly go off the wall and bloody nuts when I was cranky and faced with insideous injustices and the like - I wasn't anywhere near "nutty" or "type 3". To suggest that (let alone forward that line to the rest of the field), was a heinous crime.

I now understand it. Knowing what went down has blown away so much shit in my world! It's fully restored my self respect and my personal peace at heart (after all this time - I wasn't even aware that any of it needed restoring). I had erroneously assigned the reason/cause of my life crashing, to my own doing - when it wasn't at all! Knowing this has shifted mountains for me.

I now know what the Cof S did to me and so do others! They killed my spirit, had me cleverly packaged and submerged in a horrid dark place. Thank God and thanks to the help of many, I am no longer there! My strength and my purpose in life, is fully restored. I am content within myself and happy with my life. It feels good to have my passion and drive back, as it does being steeled in regard to my current endeavours.

Thanks and cheers folks!
Ceedia :D

[Terril park]

Thanks for all your support and encouragement folks! This little "exercise" of mine, has been way more beneficial than what I could have imagined. The last two or three days (especially), have been enlightening!

As I've said before, I was writing and posting this part of my story in order to give those in ANZO more reality on what does and has actually gone down within the CofS. Many knew/know me around these parts, and those who did/do would have taken my account of what went down, at face value.

As it turned out, it has had a great effect on me personally. I had no idea on how "sad" and "lossy" I still was, in regard to my experience and life within the CofS, as well as in regard to what I felt about myself. Writing, posting, getting feedback (on board as well as on personal lines), and getting data.....the truth finally.....has blown that lingering sadness and loss away! I truly have my life back now.

To a certain degree, those fuckers put me into a hole and shut me up for 10 years or so. Life for me HAS been good these last ten years, but I had no idea that I was still living a life/lie of self abnegation - until after I started posting on this thread.

Through posting this final part of my history in Scn (and through feedback), I've discovered how they so successfuly "dead agented"/"black PR'd me, to so many. I could never understand the "good roads fair weather" that I copped from so many when our paths crossed. I used to wonder "How could they believe this crap?" "Why would it make a difference?", "WTF has happened?", "Why don't I belong?", "WTF have I done?".

Well, it's apparent now (from emails and text messages I've had forwarded to me), that those in the field, didn't actually give a shit about my past, nor did they buy the black PR on the "Bob" story. They did though "buy" that I had gone "nutty" - that I be "best left well alone" for MY sake. I've heard the same "line" now, from various sources, and from the people who have been contacting me in the last couple of days, apologizing for buying it way back then.

How smart of OSA and the CofS! Of course people who I had worked with, fsmed, audited, C/Sed for, protected and helped, weren't going to just "buy" that I was a "bad egg". The "nutty"/"on the verge of type 3" line though, could and would fly (especially as I was so introverted up my arse after those bloody interviews and comm-ev). With much effort and attention on the part of OSA and CofS Execs - the "line" worked. People bought it. Bloody lovely! While I could certainly go off the wall and bloody nuts when I was cranky and faced with insideous injustices and the like - I wasn't anywhere near "nutty" or "type 3". To suggest that (let alone forward that line to the rest of the field), was a heinous crime.

I now understand it. Knowing what went down has blown away so much shit in my world! It's fully restored my self respect and my personal peace at heart (after all this time - I wasn't even aware that any of it needed restoring). I had erroneously assigned the reason/cause of my life crashing, to my own doing - when it wasn't at all! Knowing this has shifted mountains for me.

I now know what the Cof S did to me and so do others! They killed my spirit, had me cleverly packaged and submerged in a horrid dark place. Thank God and thanks to the help of many, I am no longer there! My strength and my purpose in life, is fully restored. I am content within myself and happy with my life. It feels good to have my passion and drive back, as it does being steeled in regard to my current endeavours.

Thanks and cheers folks!
Ceedia :D

So happy to read this. :)

[Jakadak]

I'm proud of ya darl !!!!!! :coolwink:

[Carmel]

Dear Ceedia,

After reading your story I feel I have to unreservedly apologise. You see at about the time those interviews occurred a little whispering campaign came out that you were a 'little nutty'. When I read Panda's bit about the captain pulling him aside and talking to him I guessed it was to forward the OSA purpose of discrediting you.

My guess is that after that earnest attempt to introvert, or even spin you OSA put out the "she's a little nutty" line, I hate to say it but at that time you did look introverted, and so it stuck. It was at a time you undoubtedly needed friendship and support all of which the cult managed to isolate you from. I am very glad you have come through it and we have learned the truth.

Your friend Feral

Apology truly accepted my friend, but no need for one (I know I must have "appeared" like an absolute cot case at the time, and the support you keep giving to myself and others is an admirable thing).

It's good that personally, it is all behind me now and I can laugh about it. Not so though, in regard to those still "in" or those who were "in" and are still suffering due to their, or their loved one's, involvement. May that change, sooner than we envision!

Love,
Ceedia

[Stan D'Teque]

Ceedia darling I'm glad it's all been coming out right for you. I haven't heard you this happy since '79 - it was great chatting a few nights ago and watching the lies unfold for you. You're definitely a heroine for a lot of people and always will be.

[Mrs Pattycake]

Hey OSA!

It just keeps getting worse and worse....doesn't it?

It is getting so that you just can't get people to keep your dirty secrets! These guys must be 1.1!! You plow them in and they just come back and bite you, can't be trusted!.

And now there is the story of a child sexual assault being covered up by the church!! What next, a fraud case?

Well, there's a lot more dirty laundry coming out, I am sorry to say that despite the nights without sleep ahead of you, your fate is all but sealed, the momentum against you is too great.

Ron did say that the one thing SPs couldn't stand is the light of truth. I don't suppose that you ever thought he meant you!!

[Carmel]

Ceedia darling I'm glad it's all been coming out right for you. I haven't heard you this happy since '79 - it was great chatting a few nights ago and watching the lies unfold for you. You're definitely a heroine for a lot of people and always will be.

Thank you Stan, you darling man! Glad you are with us, and on the board. Looking forward to the time when you can post your story. :)


Hey OSA!

It just keeps getting worse and worse....doesn't it?

It is getting so that you just can't get people to keep your dirty secrets! These guys must be 1.1!! You plow them in and they just come back and bite you, can't be trusted!.

And now there is the story of a child sexual assault being covered up by the church!! What next, a fraud case?

Well, there's a lot more dirty laundry coming out, I am sorry to say that despite the nights without sleep ahead of you, your fate is all but sealed, the momentum against you is too great.

Ron did say that the one thing SPs couldn't stand is the light of truth. I don't suppose that you ever thought he meant you!!

Points well made, Mrs Pattycake! And a real pleasure to see such logic presented by a woman! :coolwink:

[Supra]

Yes, a pleasing read.

OSA can't be real happy about how the Overt / Motivator sequence still applies to them. A ticking time bomb. And it won't be an explosion, it will be an implosion.

Oh dear.:p

[MarkWI]

http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/images/5.jpg
(Scientude (http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/index.html))

[Pixie]

http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/images/5.jpg
(Scientude (http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/index.html))

Excellent! Well that pretty much sums it up for me. Thanks Mark! :thumbsup:

[Carmel]

http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/images/5.jpg
(Scientude (http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/index.html))

We don't know who you are in this household, but your little cartoon skit gave us a laugh. Liked the little twists, where the "auditor" took what he wanted, to make it what he wanted - that is spot on as far as I am concerned. :thumbsup:

Obviously, you were not portraying me or anything in that work of art - cause that chick looks cranky, and I haven't got a cranky bone in my body :eyeroll: , and I ain't got pink hair - phew! :unsure:

Cheers MarkWI,
Ceedia

[MarkWI]

I'm not the author, but I saw this comic strip fitting this tread somehow. You can find other strips and the author's name on this link: http://home.comcast.net/~chlorination/scientude/index.html

[Mary Magdalene]

Ceedia,

You have got to know this... I think it was around the time that the fight was on regarding putting advertisements on the Dianetics Volcano to help finance it. I was on staff at the time and it seemed like a sane idea especially as it gave the appearance to be in good with other businesses - fantastic PR. However the execs at the time on Foundation org were busily villifying you behind your back - we all know what tone level that is BUT, the coolest thing about this was any time they knew that you were in the org they were scared! :dieslaughing:

Honey, you are an amazing chick! I beleive the orgs did all they could to get rid of you because you opened up your mouth - don't ever change that!

Oh, and for me, I want to say thankyou for posting your story - in regards to "the powers that be" saying that you were PTS Type III and it being believable because they had succesfully keyed you in, I too was given a lable. I was "psychotic". In several L. Ron Hubbard organisations I would notice out-points and try to handle. They would be ignored. I would try again and they were ignored. The one terminal I had at the time seemed to want me to shut my mouth because I was causing "trouble". So all I had was myself as "counsel". I needed strength in numbers but I had no-one. So of course I started to get cross (maybe a little more than that, but it communicates). So then I would look like - yep! A psychotic.

Thankyou Ceedia (and ESMB), for putting your stories here to be read so that I could see that I am not a psychotic but just a loose cannon and I don't mind that one little bit! :happydance:

Love your guts,
Mary

[Carmel]

Ceedia,

You have got to know this... I think it was around the time that the fight was on regarding putting advertisements on the Dianetics Volcano to help finance it. I was on staff at the time and it seemed like a sane idea especially as it gave the appearance to be in good with other businesses - fantastic PR. However the execs at the time on Foundation org were busily villifying you behind your back - we all know what tone level that is BUT, the coolest thing about this was any time they knew that you were in the org they would shit themselves! :dieslaughing: Their butts would pucker! :dieslaughing:

Honey, you are an amazing chick! I beleive the orgs did all they could to get rid of you because you opened up your mouth - don't ever change that!

Oh, and for me, I want to say thankyou for posting your story - in regards to "the powers that be" saying that you were PTS Type III and it being believable because they had succesfully keyed you in, firmly up your arse, I too was given a lable. I was "psychotic". In several L. Ron Hubbard organisations I would notice out-points and try to handle. They would be ignored. I would try again and they were ignored. The one terminal I had at the time seemed to want me to shut my mouth because I was causing "trouble". So all I had was myself as "counsel" and it sucked. I needed strength in numbers but I had no-one. So of course I started to get cross (maybe a little more than that, but it communicates). So then I would look like - yep! A psychotic.

Thankyou Ceedia (and ESMB), for putting your stories here to be read so that I could see that I am not a psychotic but just a loose cannon and I don't mind that one little bit! :happydance:

Love your guts,
Mary

Hey Girl,

Thanks for the info. Glad to know that it wasn't just me who was shitting herself! :eyeroll:

Well done on seeing the light, and jumpin' the fence. Much to be gained here, amongst this group of like minded (sort of) individuals on the board. :yes:

Start a thread on the "new member introductions", and introduce yourself!

Looking forward to seeing your stories and having your contribution on the board!

Love,
Ceedia :thumbsup:

[FlunkedForLaughing]

Hi Ceedia,

Thank you for telling your story. My heart goes out for you. This is truely shocking.

It reminds me of other stories that I have read where someone is on their way out (or just asking too many questions, and having doubts about the church), then they are demanded into the Org for a special session, and it ends up being "Reverse Auditing" designed to key them in and make them crazy. I have read several stories about this happening. When I read it the first time in the Andre Tabayoyan affidavid, it was one of the many things I read that really woke me up to get me out of the cult. It really had an impact on me (that the CO$ would do that to their own people).

I am so glad your story has a happy ending. This is very good news.

I'm glad that you felt better posting your story too. I noticed that when I posted my story on ESMB (mine was nothing compared to yours), I was better able to deal with it. I encourage others who are reading this, to share your story with us. It helps us all.

thanks again.

FFL

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Ceedia, don't take this the wrong way.

All I ever knew about the bloody volcano was on the news or in the paper (all the legal planning and approval shit). I didn't care, because I was looking after myself first, and then once sorted, maybe there's some time to look after some others.

I never saw the damned thing until I went back to Uni in 2004. When I did see it, I was stunned! It looked like a junior-high group effort at molding for the first time. It was just so laughable compared to the mock-up I had in my own mind. All I could think was "They were fighting over this?"

Kudos for coming up with a distinctively different approach to advertising that could have worked well if it had been properly supported, but ultimately the execution sucked big time.

I guess that there's anything there at all is testament to your ability to overcome all that CI and other shit.

[Carmel]

Hi Ceedia,

Thank you for telling your story. My heart goes out for you. This is truely shocking.

It reminds me of other stories that I have read where someone is on their way out (or just asking too many questions, and having doubts about the church), then they are demanded into the Org for a special session, and it ends up being "Reverse Auditing" designed to key them in and make them crazy. I have read several stories about this happening. When I read it the first time in the Andre Tabayoyan affidavid, it was one of the many things I read that really woke me up to get me out of the cult. It really had an impact on me (that the CO$ would do that to their own people).

I am so glad your story has a happy ending. This is very good news.

I'm glad that you felt better posting your story too. I noticed that when I posted my story on ESMB (mine was nothing compared to yours), I was better able to deal with it. I encourage others who are reading this, to share your story with us. It helps us all.

thanks again.

FFL
Thanks FFL. Your understanding (and that of others), is truly warming. :)

While things have hotted up around here, since I first started posting on this thread, at least now I have the state of mind and state of heart to certainly go forward from here.



Ceedia, don't take this the wrong way.

All I ever knew about the bloody volcano was on the news or in the paper (all the legal planning and approval shit). I didn't care, because I was looking after myself first, and then once sorted, maybe there's some time to look after some others.

I never saw the damned thing until I went back to Uni in 2004. When I did see it, I was stunned! It looked like a junior-high group effort at molding for the first time. It was just so laughable compared to the mock-up I had in my own mind. All I could think was "They were fighting over this?"

Kudos for coming up with a distinctively different approach to advertising that could have worked well if it had been properly supported, but ultimately the execution sucked big time.

I guess that there's anything there at all is testament to your ability to overcome all that CI and other shit.
How do you think we felt? It was a tough one - we were tied into contracts with site owner and were caught between a rock and a hard place, but despite that, when we were discussing rejection of the thing, CLO and CMO wouldn't "allow" us to entertain the idea of any further delays :eyeroll:. :grouch: I still get the willies whenever I think of that damn project! It was an endless nightmare! :melodramatic:

[Royal Prince Xenu]

How do you think we felt? It was a tough one - we were tied into contracts with site owner and were caught between a rock and a hard place, but despite that, when we were discussing rejection of the thing, CLO and CMO wouldn't "allow" us to entertain the idea of any further delays :eyeroll:. :grouch: I still get the willies whenever I think of that damn project! It was an endless nightmare! :melodramatic:

I don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but I still the person(s) who let the whole project down was/were the builder(s) of the initial molding. That display "overt product" from the start.

If you guys paid more than $1500.00 for just the "volcano" you were really ripped off.

[Panda Termint]

I don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but I still the person(s) who let the whole project down was/were the builder(s) of the initial molding. That display "overt product" from the start.

If you guys paid more than $1500.00 for just the "volcano" you were really ripped off.

RPX, We know but please don't give Ceedia any more "willies" over it! :)
You'd have to understand the inane mentality of certain SO terminals who hijacked the project when it looked like producing a HUGE win. (They took whatever glory was to be found when it looked like being a major PR/Dissem win and disappeared like startled gazelles and, of course, had been "nothing to do with it" when the shit hit the fan!)
I remember being horrified into stunned silence upon witnessing a discussion between two of these idiots about the choice of drop cloth, a temporary covering to conceal the volcano for the big opening night reveal.
I think the drop-cloth probably did duty as an opening night prop for a couple of hours.
It went something like this,
SO Idiot: "Shall we use the inexpensive dyed hessian or the 50x more expensive deluxe, desirable, crushed velvet for the big unveiling?"
SO Senior Idiot: "Oh! Definitely the most expensive thing available, we have to create a good impression!"
This, for a temporary covering so far away (in distance) from immediate inspection that nobody could tell the difference except the Contractor picking up the huge cheque/check from the luckless donors!
I won't mention the cost, it'd break someone's heart all over again! :bigcry:
These SO idiots didn't care about what it cost, after all, it wasn't their money and, despite being forced to live on a pittance themselves, they have no concept of value for money or what it takes to earn a living in the real world, they think money grows on Publics! :omg:
I believe that, had the SO terminals left the project in the hands of the originators, it would have been everything they envisaged!
Alas, Ronbot stupidity always trumps well-intentioned vision in the CofS!

[Zac]

Thanks for all your support and encouragement folks! This little "exercise" of mine, has been way more beneficial than what I could have imagined. The last two or three days (especially), have been enlightening!

As I've said before, I was writing and posting this part of my story in order to give those in ANZO more reality on what does and has actually gone down within the CofS. Many knew/know me around these parts, and those who did/do would have taken my account of what went down, at face value.

As it turned out, it has had a great effect on me personally. I had no idea on how "sad" and "lossy" I still was, in regard to my experience and life within the CofS, as well as in regard to what I felt about myself. Writing, posting, getting feedback (on board as well as on personal lines), and getting data.....the truth finally.....has blown that lingering sadness and loss away! I truly have my life back now.

To a certain degree, those fuckers put me into a hole and shut me up for 10 years or so. Life for me HAS been good these last ten years, but I had no idea that I was still living a life/lie of self abnegation - until after I started posting on this thread.

Through posting this final part of my history in Scn (and through feedback), I've discovered how they so successfuly "dead agented"/"black PR'd me, to so many. I could never understand the "good roads fair weather" that I copped from so many when our paths crossed. I used to wonder "How could they believe this crap?" "Why would it make a difference?", "WTF has happened?", "Why don't I belong?", "WTF have I done?".

Well, it's apparent now (from emails and text messages I've had forwarded to me), that those in the field, didn't actually give a shit about my past, nor did they buy the black PR on the "Bob" story. They did though "buy" that I had gone "nutty" - that I be "best left well alone" for MY sake. I've heard the same "line" now, from various sources, and from the people who have been contacting me in the last couple of days, apologizing for buying it way back then.

How smart of OSA and the CofS! Of course people who I had worked with, fsmed, audited, C/Sed for, protected and helped, weren't going to just "buy" that I was a "bad egg". The "nutty"/"on the verge of type 3" line though, could and would fly (especially as I was so introverted up my arse after those bloody interviews and comm-ev). With much effort and attention on the part of OSA and CofS Execs - the "line" worked. People bought it. Bloody lovely! While I could certainly go off the wall and bloody nuts when I was cranky and faced with insideous injustices and the like - I wasn't anywhere near "nutty" or "type 3". To suggest that (let alone forward that line to the rest of the field), was a heinous crime.

I now understand it. Knowing what went down has blown away so much shit in my world! It's fully restored my self respect and my personal peace at heart (after all this time - I wasn't even aware that any of it needed restoring). I had erroneously assigned the reason/cause of my life crashing, to my own doing - when it wasn't at all! Knowing this has shifted mountains for me.

I now know what the Cof S did to me and so do others! They killed my spirit, had me cleverly packaged and submerged in a horrid dark place. Thank God and thanks to the help of many, I am no longer there! My strength and my purpose in life, is fully restored. I am content within myself and happy with my life. It feels good to have my passion and drive back, as it does being steeled in regard to my current endeavours.

Thanks and cheers folks!
Ceedia :D

I'm shocked...

I had lived with my mother all my life (As most children do) until about 3 years ago. I was only a kid when all this shit went down. I was aware of a lot compared to what some other kids may have been aware of; I wasn't told everything, but I perceived a lot.

To see it all put in writing hurts me to think my own Mother was put through that and makes me realise what was actually happening back then.

Mum, you’re so strong and I don't know how you went through all that and were still such a great mum and were there for us (My brothers and I). I don't know how you continued to be such a strong and productive person in many areas after that.

These past few weeks/months since you have got this off your chest/put it out there; you have been a different person, stronger and with more purpose than what you already had. I love you so much and you have so much to bring to this world. It’s great to see you doing what you are doing now not just for yourself, but others that you care about and everyone else around you.

I believe it is very important that we get everyone to look at what's happening to them and their environment, and see that the CoS is not doing what it is making out to be doing. You are definitely showing others that they can step out of the box and say 'That's not fucking right!'.

I was brought up a Scientologist all my life; I wouldn't have it any other way. The tools I have learnt are indispensible and I could never negate them. I wouldn't take it back for the world. I do believe though, that the current management of the CoS is not doing their job, their leader DM is a cock head and they should all be dismissed.

For those sitting on the fence, thinking you can't get rid of it for it will all be lost, or it is the only way to get these services which all can benefit from... Something that is so great, as so much of the tech in Scientology is, will never be lost. There are so many out there that know the tech, have the tech in writing (and not the stuff altered by modern RTC), and providing services with the original tech (Such as the Free zone), which is the stuff I know from what I have read and learnt from my parents.

Then again... I'm just a Kid (Well according to my mother, I'm 22, I think I'm pretty grown up :confused2: :) ). I don't have the experience that I guess most of you may have, but I can only perceive what's in front of me. I have read many posts and can see many wrong doings within the CoS not just on this board but from experience as well.

It clearly shows the CoS is not a greater good (by any means) and should not continue. If we really want to 'clear this planet' as the CoS promotes so much, I think we need to start by removing the corruption that is the current CoS and then we can look and see what we need to do from there. It’s certainly a big job and it's definitely not happening with the current CoS organisation.

I'm happy to hear what any of you might want to say or add to my viewpoint. I'm all ears.

Mum, again I love you so much and I think you are performing a great duty to your peers and friends.

Love,

Zac

[Mary Magdalene]

My dear Teky,

How insightful and beautiful. She is alright, huh!

I love your strength in the technology and hope that others will see what beauty there is too.

I have been one that is still looking and doubting. I love that you have the strength of conviction. It will make others strong (even if you are just a kid - there's supposed to be a smiley face here, but I can't get the damn thing to work!).

I have given thought on many occasions as to how to sift out the good from the current CoS scene and I can't say with certainty. The solution you put forward is worthwhile.

Getting rid of the corrupters in the first place and exposing them from their crimes is certainly easily done. CCHR does it all the time. I look forward to bringing the church under the law. Intimidation and blackmail are against the law. The church's attempts to quiet people falls under harrassment. All over the nation people are taught this. I look forward as more and more people try their case. I know of two people who will be.

Once the "one's wearing black hats" are gone we can then quickly straighten out the one's who normally wear white.

Plans are in the wind to bring this day about. Maybe this is all that is needed.

Love your guts,

Mares

[Jakadak]

I'm shocked...

I had lived with my mother all my life (As most children do) until about 3 years ago. I was only a kid when all this shit went down. I was aware of a lot compared to what some other kids may have been aware of; I wasn't told everything, but I perceived a lot.

To see it all put in writing hurts me to think my own Mother was put through that and makes me realise what was actually happening back then.

Mum, you’re so strong and I don't know how you went through all that and were still such a great mum and were there for us (My brothers and I). I don't know how you continued to be such a strong and productive person in many areas after that.

These past few weeks/months since you have got this off your chest/put it out there; you have been a different person, stronger and with more purpose than what you already had. I love you so much and you have so much to bring to this world. It’s great to see you doing what you are doing now not just for yourself, but others that you care about and everyone else around you.

I believe it is very important that we get everyone to look at what's happening to them and their environment, and see that the CoS is not doing what it is making out to be doing. You are definitely showing others that they can step out of the box and say 'That's not fucking right!'.

I was brought up a Scientologist all my life; I wouldn't have it any other way. The tools I have learnt are indispensible and I could never negate them. I wouldn't take it back for the world. I do believe though, that the current management of the CoS is not doing their job, their leader DM is a cock head and they should all be dismissed.

For those sitting on the fence, thinking you can't get rid of it for it will all be lost, or it is the only way to get these services which all can benefit from... Something that is so great, as so much of the tech in Scientology is, will never be lost. There are so many out there that know the tech, have the tech in writing (and not the stuff altered by modern RTC), and providing services with the original tech (Such as the Free zone), which is the stuff I know from what I have read and learnt from my parents.

Then again... I'm just a Kid (Well according to my mother, I'm 22, I think I'm pretty grown up :confused2: :) ). I don't have the experience that I guess most of you may have, but I can only perceive what's in front of me. I have read many posts and can see many wrong doings within the CoS not just on this board but from experience as well.

It clearly shows the CoS is not a greater good (by any means) and should not continue. If we really want to 'clear this planet' as the CoS promotes so much, I think we need to start by removing the corruption that is the current CoS and then we can look and see what we need to do from there. It’s certainly a big job and it's definitely not happening with the current CoS organisation.

I'm happy to hear what any of you might want to say or add to my viewpoint. I'm all ears.

Mum, again I love you so much and I think you are performing a great duty to your peers and friends.

Love,

Zac

Well written Teckid.!! :thumbsup: I was shocked to read Ceedias story as well..actually gobsmacked. I had only heard a small section about the volcano and not in detail. The way she was treated is absolutely unacceptable !!! :angry: I could rave on about this but I'd rather not as I get outraged.
PS. You done good !!! Prouda ya !!! :yes: :coolwink: :) :D

[EP - Ethics Particle]

I'm shocked...


...portion deleted...

I think we need to start by removing the corruption that is the current CoS and then we can look and see what we need to do from there. It’s certainly a big job and it's definitely not happening with the current CoS organisation.

I'm happy to hear what any of you might want to say or add to my viewpoint. I'm all ears.

Mum, again I love you so much and I think you are performing a great duty to your peers and friends.

Love,

Zac

Zac, I only have one son - can I adopt you as Back-up ? :coolwink:

This is a powerful and impinging post; and we are surely gonna win this one for the benefit of all! :yes:

Roy, the EP's EP

[Royal Prince Xenu]

[QUOTE=Panda Termint;149583]RPX, We know but please don't give Ceedia any more "willies" over it! :)

I was only criticising the fibre-glass--as for the video screen, well that could have cost a real packet, as large outdoor screens were only an emerging technology at the time.

Teckid: You have a great, wonderful and fantastic mother out there. I hope you can understand the true value of the honesty she has included in her story.

lrh said we were put here "to survive". Your mum is a SURVIVOR.

[Free to shine]

Zac, I only have one son - can I adopt you as Back-up ? :coolwink:



Roy, sometimes you are really funny! :hysterical:
I second the emotion though.

[I told you I was trouble]

Zac, I only have one son - can I adopt you as Back-up ? :coolwink:

This is a powerful and impinging post; and we are surely gonna win this one for the benefit of all! :yes:

Roy, the EP's EP


No No !! EP .... I want him!!

You are a beautiful person Zac and I seriously want to adopt you ... (and your Ma!) ... XXX

You are an amazing family.

[Zac]

Hey all,

All I can say is I'm not up for adoption. I might be a kid compared to a lot of you but I'm my own person and am quite independant. I'm would love to be a friend of you all! From what I have read you are great people. The validation is great but I think my head is big enough as it is.. :coolwink:

We need to have a Sydney ESMB bash (aka get together).. Who's going to set a date??

Lots of love,

Teckid

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Hey all,

All I can say is I'm not up for adoption. I might be a kid compared to a lot of you but I'm my own person and am quite independant. I'm would love to be a friend of you all! From what I have read you are great people. The validation is great but I think my head is big enough as it is.. :coolwink:

We need to have a Sydney ESMB bash (aka get together).. Who's going to set a date??

Lots of love,

Teckid

Rear Zac/Teckid,

Well OK. :yes: I understand perfectly. :eyeroll: How about this then - since I'm prolly old enought to be your GRANDFATHER anyway for chrissake! :whistling: AND, being I am an "only child" and have no nephews or neices :bigcry: Why don't you consider me a "Dutch Uncle" OK? :confused2: :yes:

Just in case you don't know what a "Dutch Uncle" is; where I come from it means a guy who is senior in years to ya, always has your best interests at heart; and, tells you what you need to hear whether you want to listen or not! :omg:

Think about it as long as you want to; the offer stands indefinitely. :ohmy:

And yeah, get on with the ESMB "get-together" plans some ones of you! :happydance:

Love ya,

Roy/EP

[Terril park]

I'm shocked...

I had lived with my mother all my life (As most children do) until about 3 years ago. I was only a kid when all this shit went down. I was aware of a lot compared to what some other kids may have been aware of; I wasn't told everything, but I perceived a lot.

To see it all put in writing hurts me to think my own Mother was put through that and makes me realise what was actually happening back then.

Mum, you’re so strong and I don't know how you went through all that and were still such a great mum and were there for us (My brothers and I). I don't know how you continued to be such a strong and productive person in many areas after that.

These past few weeks/months since you have got this off your chest/put it out there; you have been a different person, stronger and with more purpose than what you already had. I love you so much and you have so much to bring to this world. It’s great to see you doing what you are doing now not just for yourself, but others that you care about and everyone else around you.

I believe it is very important that we get everyone to look at what's happening to them and their environment, and see that the CoS is not doing what it is making out to be doing. You are definitely showing others that they can step out of the box and say 'That's not fucking right!'.

I was brought up a Scientologist all my life; I wouldn't have it any other way. The tools I have learnt are indispensible and I could never negate them. I wouldn't take it back for the world. I do believe though, that the current management of the CoS is not doing their job, their leader DM is a cock head and they should all be dismissed.

For those sitting on the fence, thinking you can't get rid of it for it will all be lost, or it is the only way to get these services which all can benefit from... Something that is so great, as so much of the tech in Scientology is, will never be lost. There are so many out there that know the tech, have the tech in writing (and not the stuff altered by modern RTC), and providing services with the original tech (Such as the Free zone), which is the stuff I know from what I have read and learnt from my parents.

Then again... I'm just a Kid (Well according to my mother, I'm 22, I think I'm pretty grown up :confused2: :) ). I don't have the experience that I guess most of you may have, but I can only perceive what's in front of me. I have read many posts and can see many wrong doings within the CoS not just on this board but from experience as well.

It clearly shows the CoS is not a greater good (by any means) and should not continue. If we really want to 'clear this planet' as the CoS promotes so much, I think we need to start by removing the corruption that is the current CoS and then we can look and see what we need to do from there. It’s certainly a big job and it's definitely not happening with the current CoS organisation.

I'm happy to hear what any of you might want to say or add to my viewpoint. I'm all ears.

Mum, again I love you so much and I think you are performing a great duty to your peers and friends.

Love,

Zac

Dear Carmel,
Whatever the opposite in the colour spectrum to " goldenrod"
I'm sure you will like to put this on that background, and in gold leaf lettering, frame it and put it on the living room wall. Or on your chest as a medal. :)

In a time, maybe all times, when the children always saw parents as
" uncool", [ mine too :( ] you have this wonderful testament.

Really happy for you. :))))

[Terril park]

"These SO idiots didn't care about what it cost, after all, it wasn't their money and, despite being forced to live on a pittance themselves, they have no concept of value for money or what it takes to earn a living in the real world, they think money grows on Publics! "

A great sigline for someone?

Perhaps shortened to :-

" SO idiots, after all it wasn't their money, they think money grows on Publics! "

Or variations. :)

[Axiom142]

"These SO idiots didn't care about what it cost, after all, it wasn't their money and, despite being forced to live on a pittance themselves, they have no concept of value for money or what it takes to earn a living in the real world, they think money grows on Publics! "

A great sigline for someone?

Perhaps shortened to :-

" SO idiots, after all it wasn't their money, they think money grows on Publics! "

Or variations. :)

Terril,

Money does grow on publics.

And every time someone hands over a big wad of cash for some 'emergency' just because they are told that it is the greatest good ... etc, then it reinforces that viewpoint.

But hopefully now the public all over this planet are starting to get the message and this source of income will start to dry up and maybe some of the staff will start to realise that they are just not delivering.

Axiom142

[Axiom142]

I'm shocked...

I had lived with my mother all my life (As most children do) until about 3 years ago. I was only a kid when all this shit went down. I was aware of a lot compared to what some other kids may have been aware of; I wasn't told everything, but I perceived a lot.

To see it all put in writing hurts me to think my own Mother was put through that and makes me realise what was actually happening back then.

Mum, you’re so strong and I don't know how you went through all that and were still such a great mum and were there for us (My brothers and I). I don't know how you continued to be such a strong and productive person in many areas after that.

These past few weeks/months since you have got this off your chest/put it out there; you have been a different person, stronger and with more purpose than what you already had. I love you so much and you have so much to bring to this world. It’s great to see you doing what you are doing now not just for yourself, but others that you care about and everyone else around you.

I believe it is very important that we get everyone to look at what's happening to them and their environment, and see that the CoS is not doing what it is making out to be doing. You are definitely showing others that they can step out of the box and say 'That's not fucking right!'.

I was brought up a Scientologist all my life; I wouldn't have it any other way. The tools I have learnt are indispensible and I could never negate them. I wouldn't take it back for the world. I do believe though, that the current management of the CoS is not doing their job, their leader DM is a cock head and they should all be dismissed.

For those sitting on the fence, thinking you can't get rid of it for it will all be lost, or it is the only way to get these services which all can benefit from... Something that is so great, as so much of the tech in Scientology is, will never be lost. There are so many out there that know the tech, have the tech in writing (and not the stuff altered by modern RTC), and providing services with the original tech (Such as the Free zone), which is the stuff I know from what I have read and learnt from my parents.

Then again... I'm just a Kid (Well according to my mother, I'm 22, I think I'm pretty grown up :confused2: :) ). I don't have the experience that I guess most of you may have, but I can only perceive what's in front of me. I have read many posts and can see many wrong doings within the CoS not just on this board but from experience as well.

It clearly shows the CoS is not a greater good (by any means) and should not continue. If we really want to 'clear this planet' as the CoS promotes so much, I think we need to start by removing the corruption that is the current CoS and then we can look and see what we need to do from there. It’s certainly a big job and it's definitely not happening with the current CoS organisation.

I'm happy to hear what any of you might want to say or add to my viewpoint. I'm all ears.

Mum, again I love you so much and I think you are performing a great duty to your peers and friends.

Love,

Zac

Zac,

I’m glad to hear that you appreciate your mum, she is a wonderful person. It must be very upsetting to hear about what she went through. I hope that you never have to experience anything like that yourself.

You asked for some feedback so here is mine.

I was 22 when I first got into Scientology. I thought that I had found the answer to everything, but mostly I wanted to fix the things that I perceived as being wrong with me. I wasn’t happy with my life and wanted to change it for the better. Somehow it never seemed to work out the way I expected or hoped.

But, that’s life I guess. Hang on in there through the bad times, enjoy the good times and be prepared for surprises. Something that is very important to me, is that one day, hopefully a few years from now, I want to be able to look back on my life and ask the question “Did I do good?”

I thought that by being a Scientologist, I could do more good than I could ever have imagined. I was wrong. If you want to do good, be a good person and live a good life. All else stems from that.

I agree with you that there is much in Scientology that is worthwhile and valuable. Trouble is, trying to separate it from the rubbish and downright evil. Although most of the Scientologists I have known are good people, the institution of the ‘church’ is corrupt from the top down. When that situation exists, only those who act in the same way can survive in positions of any power.

I have long since given up any hope of clearing the planet. Perhaps if the CoS collapses soon, something can be salvaged but it won’t be done by forcing everyone to remake themselves in Ron’s image. Scientology should be there to help people, not dictate how they live their lives. Only by rediscovering this can Scientology truly have a global impact. But, it needs to happen from the ground up. People have to want it, not be forced to have it.

Don’t worry about being younger than most here, I think many of us would gladly swap places with you. :coolwink:
Experience comes with age but it also comes by living life. Be prepared to look and learn and you will do alright. You have your life ahead of you, enjoy it, and don’t get fooled again!

Axiom142

[Carmel]

Deleted (lap top pushed send when shouldn't have - all by itself)

[Carmel]

I was introduced to scn by one of my brothers at the end of '79, when I was on my way from Western Australia to NZ, for another brother's wedding.

I stopped off in Sydney and went into the org - the new premises in Castelreagh St, that all the staff were busy moving into. I thought all the people I met were great and I loved and trusted my brother. He told me that this is what we had been looking for. After looking for myself, I believed it was, or could be.

I found out about auditing and I really wanted to be an auditor, but I was concerned about my literacy level interferring with that (at that time I had the literacy level of an eight year old). My brother assured me that scn could handle that (even though later he admitted to thinking that I was so dumb in the area that there was probably nothing that could handle that one).

I'd had a shocker of a year in '79 (with the exception of the last few months). The idea of a new environment, new friends and a new start was very appealing. I decided that after the wedding in NZ, I'd hitch back to Perth, pack up my scant belongings, say goodbye to my mates and head back to Sydney to join staff.

Somehow I was slotted for the TTC (technical training core) without a production record, but I had to get through staff status I and II first. Initially that was a bit of a nightmare to say the least. Here's me - miss literate of the universe (not!), confronted with KSW 1 straight up!

It didn't take me days, it took me weeks to get through it, and then pass a starrate check out on it. However, in that time I learned a shitlload. We had a great STO (staff training officer) who helped me get through it. I cleared words and words and words (getting into all sorts of word chains) - they were all 'not-understoods' as opposed to 'mis-understoods'. When I got through it, I could read (well - at least much better than I could!).

I disagreed with much in KSW1, but I was told that I didn't have to agree with it all, I just had to understand it and apply it while working in the CofS. I could 'have' that, and took some key things on board; points 1 -10; the concept on 'group think' (I had reality on that in other groups to which I had belonged); adherence to procedure while applying the tech.

I struggled through the rest of SS I, but by the time I got to the end of SS II, I was 'flying', in comparison. Odete (the STO), was a fantastic help, got me through it all and to that level where I could read fairly well after being all but an illiterate - it wasn't her hat to do that, but she cared and gave me all the help I needed.

Then I was in the academy as a TTC member - and all was so good (or seemed to be). There were about 10 -12 of us in the TTC over that next 12 month period. We were all young, just like the majority of the staff, and we pretty well had a ball being on staff at this time.

We had a couple of mentors/older people running the org, who were SO crew. I think back now to what they had to deal with with all of us, and I shake my head. We were mostly in our 20's (I was 21). The boys were still very much lads - lots of fooling around, silly bugger pranks, and much fun, laughter and 'play'.

Harry, Pat and Ethel who were pretty well running the org, allowed us to be who we were, and didn't try to stifle our spirit of play. They had kids our age, so granted us lots of space and freedom to be ourselves. I do believe they loved and cared for us, and others who were on Syd Day staff at the time feel the same way.

Most of us all did our 12 1/2 hours study (over and above post time), and we all had moonlight jobs, but we still found time to party on weekends. We'd do the usual stuff like; frequent jazz bars, go to the cross (Kings Cross), go to the Coogee Bay Hotel dancing (then skinny dip in the ocean afterward to cool off), manage the odd concert, and go to the odd rugby game etc. There were about 40 of us that would kind of hang together, in and outside of the org, and we had a ball (even though we had to miss out on the odd night's sleep to manage it all).

I was on fulltime training and all was going well – The student Hat certainly dealt with the remaining problems I had concerning my ability to read. The purif was just a blow out for me – it gave me an entirely new head space (having a very heavy drug history – I was a candidate for it). I also got the HRD which was right up my alley – it’s like it was designed for me. After it, my feet were firmly planted on the ground, and a ‘confusion’ about everything and anything in my life till that point, got dealt with. A big cloud had lifted off me, and I had a new life. At that time, I was on top of the world.

Life as a TTC member went on, and all was well pretty much. We were amongst friends, learning and working.

One weekend, out of the 'young crowd', we had four separate motorbike accidents. None of us were badly injured – just a few broken bones, gravel rash, bruises, sprains etc. Pat (our CO) flipped, but purely out of concern (just as I would now, over my boys and their mates, if the same happened to them ).

On the Monday morning we hobbled/crutched into the org for post as usual. I was hoping for/expecting sympathy or some compassion or something – but instead we received the evil eye at muster, then were routed straight to HCO. I didn’t have a clue what was going on. Tim (my then date ‘sort of’ ), told me we’d be doing o/ws. I had just done a ton of training on o/w tech, and this didn’t seem to align with what I had just learned about, but he was giving me the look to shut the fuck up.

Then we got a lecture from this Folo person/Exec (who I didn’t know), about how out-ethics we all were, that he knew we were being promiscuous, etc, etc and we were told to go up on the roof and start writing them up. I objected, saying that; I didn’t understand; that I was a pillion so I didn’t cause or fail to prevent the accident; and I was querying what actual tech he was operating off! As I was saying this, I started to feel this pinch in my back, and it was gradually increasing. I looked at Tim, I got his look, a slightly harder pinch, and I shut up – then he stopped pinching me.

I thought the whole thing was fu’ked for sure, but I erroneously put the fiasco down to the gorky lookin’ cockhead of an SO guy, who somehow wielded all this ‘power’ over everyone.

We went up to the roof. The boys were all making jokes and laughing when we got up there, but I’d never written up o/ws before, and I wasn’t feeling too good about doing it, over something like this. (besides that, I was in agony and would rather have been lying down at home). I thought it was a wrong action, and I was being a ridgy little bitch about it all. Soon I saw the ‘funny’ side of it, and started writing them up. Tim looked at what I had written at one point, and said “Nuh, you’ll have to be more specific than that!” Well – bloody lovely! I got the idea eventually, but then I got stuck - I ran out of things to write. Then it was explained to me, that I’d have to think of things that “they” would consider overts. I ridged again, ‘cause I’d just studied all about o/ws and knew that it was a whacko concept to say the least, but the boys just laughed at me, and told me that I’d get used to it. I wrote up a few more o/w’s, but I was informed that what I had done, wouldn’t be enough, and that I should keep writing.

Then one of the guys asked me if I had mentioned a ‘rendezvous’ that we had had a few weeks prior. He said that he had, so I might as well too. I cringed – this was in front of Tim who I had been with that weekend – was nothing sacred? I asked him why he had written it down as an overt. I asked him if he thought what we did was wrong. He said that he didn’t, but because it’s what they wanted, if he didn’t write it down, then he wouldn’t get through his end rud check. He also said that I'd probably cop it, if I didn't put it in mine. Everyone laughed and joked about the fact that I would “learn”. The boys were joking and laughing about explicit sexual details they were putting down in their write ups, and were scoffing and mocking and laughing at what the anal SO dude’s response would be, when he read them.

It turned out to be a hoot of a day in some respects, but afterwards I was confused, because the whole exercise didn’t make sense, and the boys just seemed to take it in their stride (they’d copped it lots before). Here we were, all bruised and battered and/or plastered up, up on the roof writing up our o/w’s. That was my first real introduction to the insanity within orgs, and the ‘group think’ that allowed it, and I’ll never forget it, but it didn't dampen my spirits for very long.

After that all was good again it seemed, except that for some reason, the CO ANZO didn’t want me going out with, or having anything to do with Tim. He was Dissem Sec and a reg (held from above). He was a ‘golden boy’. Even though I was flying through my courses and internships, she had decided I wasn’t good enough for him, or a bad influence on him or something. He was discouraged from seeing me. When his Div 2 stats were down, he was often asked if he had been sleeping with me. Tim was ‘on again’, ‘off again’, every five minutes with me it seemed. We’d be doing well, then all of a sudden, out of the blue, he’d call it off. WTF? I never got it, and could never understand it. He was only around 26/27 at the time, and I thought it was because he was a young guy who wasn’t ready to ‘settle’ (he’d go with other girls when we were ‘off’). It was breaking my heart, and I didn’t find out till later that he was under constant pressure by FOLO Execs to ditch me. To this day I wouldn’t have a bloody clue what the problem was, except for the fact that the head honcho in ANZO didn’t like me.

Time went on. I had gotten through all my courses and internships in record time, and then I was slotted for staff C/S. I was so upset! I didn’t like the idea. I wanted to be flitting around the place, and around the traps with the ‘public’. I didn’t want to be stuck away in an ‘ivory tower’, and I didn’t want to extend my training. However, I got sold on the idea, and my training was extended so I could be the staff C/S (and from then on till now, I’m so glad that it was).

I went on post as staff staff C/S (meaning a contracted staff member C/Sing for staff), and I loved it. The SSO (staff section officer) and I had four staff staff auditors and internes auditing staff full time for us. We had a board up of all our 120 or so Syd Day staff, and we were getting them audited for their own enhancement purposes, as opposed to org correction cycles or sec checks required by some senior. It was going well. We had the odd typical bitch fight, but in the scheme of things, there wasn’t too much crap going on, and/or that I was privy to.

This changed (or started to) around the end of 81/beginning of 82, when things started to go south and sour (I’ll fill you in on this, in my next post). Prior to this time though, as I’ve touched on above, I had a great time on staff. Other staff were also having a great time and making gains through auditing and training, as well as contributing to others who were having and making the same. Prior to scn I was somewhat of a ‘darling of circumstances’. I was aimless and more than incapable on many fronts. The Syd Day staff, my auditing and training, and my job - certainly helped me deal with that, and I had a new life. I know it to be true, and I will NEVER negate it, or sit back and shut up when others try to do so. Those who weren’t there (at that place at that time) have no right to make judgement on my experience and/or try to say that it wasn't a good one.

[HappyGirl]

Deleted (lap top pushed send when shouldn't have - all by itself)

There you go deleting your posts again. But I know why it happened. One of your angels knew I had completely missed your story!! Jeez, where was I?? This explains some late night chats we've had! :) Well I was :bigcry: in the beginning, but now everything turned out ok, and I'm so glad! :hug:

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Ceedia, I'm glad you at least got a good boost on your literacy skills.

[Panda Termint]

Thanks for the update on your story, Ceedia.
You're right, it was actually fun to be a scn'ist back then. :)
Love, Panda.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Good posting, Ceedia! :clap:

For the record, I had gains from my scio auditing, training and study too. :yes: Particularly, pre-GAT when I would "do something" in scn and go back to my regular life, career and activities - which was kinda difficult, but not impossible in those days. :no: :yes:

I can see how the situation in ANZO would be more conducive to making progress and building competencies, as the society is more closely-knit and involved on a daily basis. The good times you (then) kids had should not be negated or diminished in any way. You were all very lucky to have caring adults in charge during that time. :yes:

Do you have a count of how many of the original crew you started out with are still "in" and how many are "out"?:confused2:

Continue when you have the time and keep us posted re Jax's condition.

Lots of love,

Mike/Roy/EP

[Terril park]

The Syd Day staff, my auditing and training, and my job - certainly helped me deal with that, and I had a new life. I know it to be true, and I will NEVER negate it, or sit back and shut up when others try to do so. Those who weren’t there (at that place at that time) have no right to make judgement on my experience and/or try to say that it wasn't a good one.

You're definitely one of my favourite " ridgy little bitches". :)

What happened to Tim?

[Carmel]

You're definitely one of my favourite " ridgy little bitches". :)

What happened to Tim?
He's the father of my children, my conservative academic husband and friend, who thankfully brings me back to reality when I get too carried away/over the top or too close to the edge! :coolwink:

See next post - we did end up getting married, despite all the counter intention (and we're both looking forward to being grandparents together some day). :thumbsup:

[Good twin]

He's the father of my children, my conservative academic husband and friend, who thankfully brings me back to reality when I get too carried away/over the top or too close to the edge! :coolwink:

See next post - we did end up getting married, despite all the counter intention (and we're both looking forward to being grandparents together some day). :thumbsup:

WOW!!!! This is amazing.........please continue with the story. I can't wait to see how you got here from there. :coolwink:

[Terril park]

He's the father of my children, my conservative academic husband and friend, who thankfully brings me back to reality when I get too carried away/over the top or too close to the edge! :coolwink:

See next post - we did end up getting married, despite all the counter intention (and we're both looking forward to being grandparents together some day). :thumbsup:

Somehow I expected that answer. I'm either really OT or a died in the wool romantic. :)

[Carmel]

Things started to go sour around the end of ‘81, and weren’t the same, through to around the end of ’82. Life in the org went on, and much I don’t recall, but some incidents that occurred during this time, are still quite clear to me (the sequences in which they occurred aren’t so clear, so please excuse me if I get it a bit wrong in that regard).

The following is from my perspective – a staff staff C/S not in the loop so to speak. Towards the end of 82, I went on as Qual Sec and was more in the loop, but still, us non-SO were ‘shielded’ somewhat, from much of what was going on.

1) When I was first posted as staff staff C/S (early '81), I went into the office with Jan Hill, who was the Snr C/S ANZO. She knew LRH and Quinten and others (cause she had been on the ship for a time), but she never talked about her experience, and would hardly answer any of my questions about it (it's only lately that I understand why).

She taught me heaps. We got on well and became friends. I'd complain to her about this or that, but she wouldn't just solve it for me, or tell me the answer - she'd ask me questions to get me looking in the right direction and to make me think. Sometimes she'd talk to me about the value of PR, cause she saw me constantly fu'king up in that department. In regards to C/Sing, sometimes I'd be stumped, and she'd always refer me to some basic C/S Series, or basic tech (when I maybe couldn’t see the wood for the trees, and was trying to think up something wild and wonderful to fix a case :duh: ).

Jan was a hard working, dedicated, smart woman, who had given her life to scn. She wasn’t aggressive, she knew how to play the game and get things done.

At some point, Jan Hill's husband went over to Ireland to see a sick/dying parent (he was a non-SO staff member). It turned out to be a 'trap' by his family (to get him out of scn it seemed). They took his passport and he was stuck there against his will. Jan wanted to go over and deal with the situation and get him back. The CO ANZO wouldn't give her permission to go.

One day she said to me that she was going out to get some lunch, 'cause she'd only eaten an apple. I had my head in a folder, and hardly acknowledged her, so she repeated herself. I wondered what the big deal was about getting lunch, but then later when she didn't return, the penny dropped. She had blown, and by the time I had figured it out, she was on a plane to Ireland. Fuck!

She should have been given permission to go, and even been given company in her endeavour, but the CO ANZO wasn't into the 2D at all, and just refused her permission, so she had to 'blow'. So Jan was gone for good from that point - and that was a loss for all.

2) At muster, our CO had to read out this long write up, of what happened at the Mission Holders Conference (she along with a few others, was an SO Garrison on our org). It was more than obvious that she didn't like it, and objected to having to read it to us. This went on, muster after muster until it was done. We all wondered what the hell it was all about, but back then we didn't know. All I can remember about it from back then, was that it was long, it took days and days, and there was something about some 'dinging' (which R/S spoke of), which made the mission holders sound like 'squirrels'. The CO had to divert off of the write up/report at one point, to specifically point out the ‘dinging’ procedure, so that we could all ‘get’ how fu’ked it was, and make it clear to us that mgt had done the right thing in discovering this, and putting ethics in on the missions.

The CO and the other Execs started to get very serious at this time, and started to look hunted. They were still pretty well protecting us from the crap though, but we could see that they weren’t happy.

3) Around this same time, all staff were ordered to have Joburg confessionals. All auditing was suspended until the Joburgs were done. Our Execs didn’t like the order, but I was told in no uncertain terms that there was no way around it. If ya had a look at the Joburg questions, you’d see that this was whacky. So inapplicable to say the least and our query was, WHY? Joburg’s were long, they took forever, and it served no purpose giving all the staff joburgs, but to satisfy the order. We had to comply, and we did.

4) 'New' HCOB's and tech films started to arrive. Some of them were questionable. I queried stuff to David Mayo (Snr C/S Int at the time). One of the things I queried was an HCOB on "Unreading Questions and Items". It had been revised, and the revision was a worry to say the least, because it said that we weren't to check grade processes for reads, before running - like we were now supposed to run every process on every pc, regardless of charge. It didn't make sense.

About a week after I sent my query, I was called into the Dir Reviews office. He supposedly had a telex from David Mayo, ordering a Court of Ethics on me, for my query. He was giving me the chance to recant, before he put that Court of Ethics into motion. I tried to explain to him, but he wouldn't listen. He said that I was 'know best', and he got angry at me. I got angry back (it was either that or cry). He ended up slapping me across the face, and I fell off my chair. Then I was bawling. I didn't know what to do or think. Prior to this time, I had thought the sun shone out of this guys arse. I thought he was wise, and in a way, I wanted to be like him. The thought of him not understanding me, not liking me and being so hard on me, caved me in.

Then he hugged me, and told me to settle down, that he only slapped me to wake me up. I was confused and devastated at the time. He told me to go for a walk, and I did. I kept thinking of the bulletin, and my right and obligation to ‘orders query’ vs my respect and admiration Nick. I didn’t know what was going on, but I talked myself into the fact that Nick was not my friend, and not one who I should trust. I was wobbly on it, but I stuck to it. I couldn't agree to running grades that way. I grew up a bit that day.

The Court of Ethics on me ended up going ahead, but then it got dropped for some reason (or nothing much came of it). At some point afterwards, the HCOB was cancelled.

5) A couple of our friends went to Flag for OEC FEBC training. When they got back they told us stories about Bill Franks and Kerry Gleeson. They were mocking their behaviour - but it was so bizarre, that we didn't believe them. I was used to getting sucked in by the boys about stuff I thought was serious, when it wasn’t. I thought that this was just another one of those times. It became apparent that it wasn’t - this stuff did happen (face rips etc). It was all true it seemed. How could it be that senior mgt execs behaved this way? It was scary stuff, and didn't make sense at the time.

6) We had all been ordered to do the Ministers Course, so we all did it. But then they were trying to get all of us techies to get ordained. That was a shocker and I wasn't going to do that in a fit. I argued that I didn't consider that we were actually a church; that we weren't actually a religion; and that I didn't agree with the Christian symbology. But I only got away with it, when I said that as a Catholic I would consider it sacrilege (very pukey and BS, but it worked - they got off my back after a few hours of FDSing on the subject).

7) We started losing staff to "up-lines". We lost heaps! The Exec Div, Qual Div, and Tech Div got stripped of so many long term stable experienced staff/crew members. It was a shocker. We were losing them, left right and centre. We didn't know what was going on, and couldn’t understand it, given the quicksilver policy letter.

8) An order came down that any and all of us who were living with our partners had to get married, or split. So, the girls were mostly happy, but the boys were a bit freaked - we went to a wedding a week just about, for months it seemed. Tim and I were the last to get married, cause I wanted a 'proper' wedding, and I needed to give my kiwi family and kiwi friends some kind of advanced notice. Harry covered for me on that one, and shielded me from the crap I was getting for not being married in short order.

9) I had some other query regarding all the clears we were supposed to be 'un-declaring'. This time I got an ethics trip - assigned lowers, did decks for a bit, then half way through getting all the signatures for my liability formula (which contained stuff not related to the thing I got into trouble for in the first place), I was told to go to HCO. There was an issue on me being labelled as a 'Tiger' (not a good label). Some months prior to this, I had been awarded kha khan status from up-lines. I queried as to how come I was now getting this label (I naively thought that I'd have the nine lives). The HAS told me that I was now in a position where I was on a constant warning; that if I stepped out of line at all, I'd be in serious trouble; and that there are certain posts that I would never be allowed to hold.

I hadn't actually done anything wrong at this point. I had only "orders queried" some orders and HCOB's, and while waiting for reply, per the PL, I hadn't implemented the order. So I was pretty confused and upset about it all, and at the time, I didn't understand it. I was learning that things were far from kosher within the CofS, and in my naivity I thought that I and others had an obligation and opportunity to try and fix it. :duh: :duh: :duh:

10) At some point Harry (our lead auditor) trained as C/S, and he eventually took Jan's place. At that point, I moved into the office with him. He was a mentor for me (and many), and he guarded me from much crap from then on, until he left to go up lines for training on some special project - the new AOSHANZO. We didn’t know that we were getting an AO. Losing Harry was a big blow to many of us, and to the org.

11) I have already posted what happened re my miscarraige new years eve '82, but it is relevant to the time, so I'm also including it here also:

It was toward the end of '82. I was a TTC graduate and had been full time staff C/S for about a year, before replacing the Qual Sec - I was at this time, newly on post as Qual Sec and holding the staff C/S post 'from above' (the load of staff C/S had diminshed greatly due to staff 'rip off's' from up lines).

I discovered that I was pregnant in the October. Shykes - it wasn't planned, and it didn't fit into the scheme of things (I had gone off the pill a few years earlier, and being ignorant about the fact that sperm can live for 'days' in some cases - I didn't use the diaphram at times that I should have).

Abortion wasn't an option for me. I knew that me being pregnant would go down like a lead balloon, so besides talking to my hubby about it, I kept my lips sealed for a while!

Then I made it known. It was horrible! I had around six different interviews with senior execs, who tried to convince me to have an abortion. I went to ethics about three times, and to cramming a few times for FDSing as obviously my 'held down seven' was due to me being a good little 'Catholic' girl!

It was shoved in my face that the org had invested all this time and money training me, and that now I was going to throw it all away. It was also shoved in my face, that we had already 'lost' two C/ses, and the other C/S in the org (Genny my bridesmaid who was about 5 months at the time), was already having a baby and me having one, just wasn't an option.

I pointed out to them, that I had audited and/or C/Sed for SO crew and staff who were forced to have abortions, and that under no circumstances was I going to subject myself to the kind of 'charge' that they had, by submitting and having an abortion. These people 'handling' me, then assigned the 'mental charge' associated with the forced abortions, to similar brainwashing from the catholics. The whole fiasco and guilt trip was a mind fuck, and it continued until the point that I was over three months, and an abortion was no longer an option.

A little while after this, I started 'bleeding'. I didn't know what this was about. I asked the older female execs in the org about it, and all three said it was normal and not to worry about it. Then it got heavier - the advice was to use a 'pad' (sorry boys!). I suggested that maybe I should go and see the doctor, but I wasn't given 'permission' to. I was told that everything was OK and 'normal', and that there was no reason to worry. I trusted these people, and was so naive at the time about such things, that I took what they said on board, and plodded on.

I kept 'bleeding'. On new years eve, I started to get 'pains' (which after having three kids since, I can now label as labour pains). I saw the HAS and told her. She saw the CO and the Tech Sec about it. They told me not to be case on post, to see the day out, and then go home and rest over the weekend.

Being ignorant to what was going on :duh: , I stayed on post and then after post went home. I was bleeding profusely, but being a total 'dummy' in the area - I didn't realize that I was losing body blood through my uterus! My hubby called my sister in-law who was a nurse, and when she saw me, she got me straight to hospital. I went on a drip, had a D and C under a general aneasthetic, and all was then well - obviously though, I had lost the baby.

I went back onto post on the Monday, and nothing more was mentioned about my pregnancy that conveniently went away!

I have no upset on it now - I had three sons soon afterward in '86, '87 and '89. We have wonderful sons and a great family, and I wouldn't swap exactly what we have for quids! However, at the time I was gutted, and at the time I sensed and/or could see the jubilation by too many about my loss, and that made things worse.

12) Ethel (our Tech Sec), and Nick (our Dir Review), ended up blowing. They were SO members, and generally well respected in the org. We had heard that Mayo, Franks and Gleeson were 'squirrels' and were declared. There was much talk as to who were the 'good guys' - like should we stay, or should we go? Was all this crappy shit we were going through because of the 'mother church' or was it because of the 'nasties' like Gleeson and co who had 'infiltrated' the church, but were thankfully now kicked out? We talked about the ‘dinging’ that current management had discovered and dealt with, about the Mayo HCOB’s which were suspect, the SRA’s our FEBC grads witnessed or copped from the likes of Gleeson and Franks etc, etc. Our ‘think’ was that these guys were now kicked out and ‘obviously’ the source of all these problems. This gave us ‘faith’ in current management. :duh: :duh: :duh:

There were a number of Execs who 'blew' at this time (Day and Fdn). Most of us decided to stay. From what we could glean, we thought that the church was now in safe hands, and we thought that now things would start to straighten out (little did we know). :bigcry:

End of '82/early '83 we were left alone for a few months. The quicksilvers had appeared to stop. People were established on their new posts (most of us had moved up the org board). We still had about 80-90 staff on Day, and about 35-40 on Fdn. We were trucking along quite well considering, and it seemed that some normality was coming back. But that didn't last long, cause in March '83, the Matt Henderson Mission arrived (next post).

[Good twin]

Oh boy. Once again, even though I know exactly how it's going to turn out, I still just can't wait to hear the details..................

[Once bitten]

You know, Carmel, even though I was there with you at the same time this was all happening, I must have been protected from it. I was auditing up until the end of 82 and then C/Sing, but I can't remember when I went on as C/S. I was Joburged, (as were we all), at length and ad nauseum, and I remenber the shit about the 'reads' HCOB and all of the kerfuffle about that. We had to M9 it. (IS that the method on the cans?) Well we word-cleared it on the cans anyway. And then it was cancelled by a new HCOB which read that the earlier one wasn't written by whoever had said had written it and we had to word-clear the new HCOB on the cans all over again! I don't remember all that shit though, but I think Bill copped it, but us auditors just had to keep auditing as that was where the $$ was being made! That's why I was forced to audit that creep who was molesting his neices in PT. Like while he was receiving auditing, that morning he had been doing that! I pretty much got comm-eved for refusing to audit him. Ethel told me to plead guilty so I did and nothing happened! (lol). Jan Schobel got put into a serious ethics condition and had to wear a grey armband. She was the one sent to get me back on post after I had my son. She cried and said that if I didn't come back with her she would be put down into enemy. Yeah. THose were tough times all right. Bill seems to remember much more than I can. Maybe I was concentrating on my pregnancy!!

Did Nick Cramey blow? I liked Nick. He worked hard and was always good for a laugh. I hope he finds his way to the board sometime. I also remember that stuff about Jan! It was all hushed up though wasn't it. Like we were never allowed to talk about it or anything. We just accepted it and got on with it. I remember not even being sure that she had blown because no one would tell me! I also loved Noel. He was a darling, darling man. I hope they're still happy.

I agree with your statements about Ethel and Harry as well. They were two of the loveliest people you could ever meet.

Shane was Director of Tech Services at the time wasn't he? Where was Trev? He had married Jan and they had Tristan. Do you know where Jan ended up?

You're also right about the fun we had in the early days before it all turned to custard. It was good fun and we made good firiends. Well, look at us, thirty odd years later!!

Love ya,

Gen

[everfree]

Another great read, thanks!


We had to M9 it. (IS that the method on the cans?) Well we word-cleared it on the cans anyway.

The one where you read aloud on the cans is M2, the one where you check a section of material for reads is M4.

[Once bitten]

Another great read, thanks!



The one where you read aloud on the cans is M2, the one where you check a section of material for reads is M4.

Oh thanks. It was M2. Yeah. It's all coming back to me now. eeek. My heart is racing at the thought of having to look up words like 'and;. Oh god....

[scooter]

Great read Carmel - brought back some good and some not-so-good memories.

Gen - Jan and Noel were living in western Sydney last i heard of them (this was about 8 years ago) - off-lines but still very much Scios still.

I used to see Nick around sydney every few years until the late '90s - never spoke with him as I was "in" and he was very "out" and had done OT levels in the FZ mid-80s.

They were incredibly fun times then - I guess if they hadn't been so good I would never have stayed and put up with all the subsequent shit that went down.

[Carmel]

From all reports, Jan and Noel are doing well and are very happy. I don't know that they are very much scio's though - but that's only my assumption. I haven't seen them in years now. They have two kids Shannon and Andrew, and they're in their early 20's (my kids have bumped into them on occasion around the traps in Sydney). So all is well on their front I think.

After Jan had Tristen, she had Tabatha (alll grown up now). Jan (Eade) re-married years ago. Last I heard, she was back on Syd Day staff. She called me last year after the 'basics' release.

Yes, McSween was DTS back then, before he was Org Esto, and then later ED at one point. He becamea father, got jack of it all and left staff with a large freeloader bill, based on a nasty tecnicality (which was only convenient and/or applicable to those who wanted to make him wrong for leaving).

[Once bitten]

From all reports, Jan and Noel are doing well and are very happy. I don't know that they are very much scio's though - but that's only my assumption. I haven't seen them in years now. They have two kids Shannon and Andrew, and they're in their early 20's (my kids have bumped into them on occasion around the traps in Sydney). So all is well on their front I think.

After Jan had Tristen, she had Tabatha (alll grown up now). Jan (Eade) re-married years ago. Last I heard, she was back on Syd Day staff. She called me last year after the 'basics' release.

Yes, McSween was DTS back then, before he was Org Esto, and then later ED at one point. He becamea father, got jack of it all and left staff with a large freeloader bill, based on a nasty tecnicality (which was only convenient and/or applicable to those who wanted to make him wrong for leaving).

Hmmm That would be right!

Thanks for all of that, Carmel. You are a mine of knowledge and I'm enjoying reading your story.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Not to rub it in, but did you miscarriage twice? I wasn't there in '82--it was '85 or '86.

Sorry to other readers if I'm giving more of the story away, but this must have been even more emotional turmoil than I realized at the time. MY heart goes out to you all over again.

DM must have been getting his hands on the reins back in the '70s even before Hubbard 'disappeared'.

[Carmel]

Yes RPX - once in 84 and again in 85 (before we were finally successful in having Zac, Sam and Max, in 86, 87 and 89).

For the record, it all turned out for the best in the end. If I hadn't lost that baby in '82, it would have been an absolute shocker being in my third trimester during the mission that came in March '83. And as it happened, I had Zac with me in my office until he was 18 months old (when I then had Sam) and had just finished my contract. The timing was good - if I had kids earlier they would have had to be minded at a time that they needed their mum, and their mum needed them.

It was very hard being pregnant on staff for several reasons. I'm thankful that I got through being pregnant with Zac and Sam, without any real problems.

[Mrs Pattycake]

Hi darlin'

Thanks for all the info about what it was like to be on staff then - it sounds like it would be great - kind of what you'd expect if the tech was in and working.

I got in to scientology and joined staff in 85. I was Syd Fdn. By then the place was in a state of collapse - but there were "stories" of the boom times prior to 82 when there were 100s on staff - it was kind of unreal to me - we always were struggling, there was no time for fun, no time for training on your post let alone auditing.

I could not stay for long - it was too insane. I was an exec - every week we'd have a long meeting about the FP. We could not afford to pay for the phones or even toilet paper because we were under orders from up lines to get out the stupid promo pieces they kept sending us - yet the promo obviously did not work as we were not getting enough new public coming in.

(I had a degree in marketing - so it was just absurd to me that we would continually spend what little money we had on something that so obviously did not work ! )

Just thinking about those times makes me wonder why I did not leave Scientology for good - the staff were down trodden, the building was a rat infested dive - nothing much was getting produced except telexes to and fro management.

I remember the night I decided to leave - well morning really.I was leaving the Org at 2am and my senior yelled out to me that if I went home without getting my stats up he would assign me liability ( my post was field control sec and my stats were FSM commissions paid and memberships sold - there were no public in the Org at 2am !!! )

I told him to stick his condition assignment up his arse and walked out ! It felt great !:happydance:

So its nice to hear that at one time it did work how it was supposed to .


.

[scooter]

Ah the rats in that building - too big for the cat to cope with. :itstrue:

I remember having to do the idiotic "nightwatch" one night and having a slug gun in the basement shooting them - yes it sounds gross but it was better than the smell of dead rat permeating the building that happened when they got into the unused air ducts and died from the poison spread around for them. :banghead:

A place where one could see a new civilization was being created?:confused2:

[Panda Termint]

Ah the rats in that building - too big for the cat to cope with. :itstrue:

I remember having to do the idiotic "nightwatch" one night and having a slug gun in the basement shooting them - yes it sounds gross but it was better than the smell of dead rat permeating the building that happened when they got into the unused air ducts and died from the poison spread around for them. :banghead:

A place where one could see a new civilization was being created?:confused2:
That's no way to talk about SO Missionaires, mate! :D

[scooter]

Nah -it wasn't like they were missed - it was expected that they'd blow.

Burying the bodies was always a hassle tho' :coolwink:

[Once bitten]

Nah -it wasn't like they were missed - it was expected that they'd blow.

Burying the bodies was always a hassle tho' :coolwink:

lol! Imagine! :omg:

I remember those ludicrous 'night watches'. Bill had to do some and I was really scared for him. Remember the 'bullet holes' in the window of Tech Div? We were told it was the SAS or some US secret police. We believed our phones were all bugged by them too! :nervous:

I remember the rats but I also remember the cochroaches. Hard to keep you TRs in when you are auditing and a cochroache crawls over your papers while you are listening to your pc. I still hate cochroaches to this very day. (I don't seem to be able to even spell it.) :confused2:

Sorry to Mrs Pattycake not to have any funny memories of water pistols or those high-jinx. Yep. It was fun, but I don't know if it was cos the tech was in. It was just cos it was new and was what people were looking for at the time because the tech was no more in then than now I don't think but I could be wrong about that.

[Carmel]

Hi darlin'

Thanks for all the info about what it was like to be on staff then - it sounds like it would be great - kind of what you'd expect if the tech was in and working.

I got in to scientology and joined staff in 85. I was Syd Fdn. By then the place was in a state of collapse - but there were "stories" of the boom times prior to 82 when there were 100s on staff - it was kind of unreal to me - we always were struggling, there was no time for fun, no time for training on your post let alone auditing.

I could not stay for long - it was too insane. I was an exec - every week we'd have a long meeting about the FP. We could not afford to pay for the phones or even toilet paper because we were under orders from up lines to get out the stupid promo pieces they kept sending us - yet the promo obviously did not work as we were not getting enough new public coming in.

(I had a degree in marketing - so it was just absurd to me that we would continually spend what little money we had on something that so obviously did not work ! )

Just thinking about those times makes me wonder why I did not leave Scientology for good - the staff were down trodden, the building was a rat infested dive - nothing much was getting produced except telexes to and fro management.

I remember the night I decided to leave - well morning really.I was leaving the Org at 2am and my senior yelled out to me that if I went home without getting my stats up he would assign me liability ( my post was field control sec and my stats were FSM commissions paid and memberships sold - there were no public in the Org at 2am !!! )

I told him to stick his condition assignment up his arse and walked out ! It felt great !:happydance:

So its nice to hear that at one time it did work how it was supposed to .


.
Yeah, by '85 it was all pretty rotten, and it only went down hill from there. I understand why you left when you did - and I certainly remember that senior who you mentioned. His senior wasn't the best either :eyeroll: - The Fdn Org was well into the swing of that cult think by then and a couple of the key Execs at that time seemed to have no qualms about turning that org into stat push city. It used to give us 'Day' guys the heebie geebies! :nervous: (although 'Day' was headed in the same direction)


lol! Imagine! :omg:

I remember those ludicrous 'night watches'. Bill had to do some and I was really scared for him. Remember the 'bullet holes' in the window of Tech Div? We were told it was the SAS or some US secret police. We believed our phones were all bugged by them too! :nervous:

I remember the rats but I also remember the cochroaches. Hard to keep you TRs in when you are auditing and a cochroache crawls over your papers while you are listening to your pc. I still hate cochroaches to this very day. (I don't seem to be able to even spell it.) :confused2:

Sorry to Mrs Pattycake not to have any funny memories of water pistols or those high-jinx. Yep. It was fun, but I don't know if it was cos the tech was in. It was just cos it was new and was what people were looking for at the time because the tech was no more in then than now I don't think but I could be wrong about that.

Guess what Gen, apparently those ludicrous night watches are still going, and the female staff are doing them too! :eyeroll: I asked Tim what the hell he would do if there WAS an intruder or intruders. He said that he probably wouldn't even wake up, and what the hell could he do, if there were a few of them. (and yes, I remember the bullet holes.:eyeroll:) The weird thing was, that we had nothing in the org to steal. No computers or video equipment or anything. The only thing to steal would have been hard copy records of stuff. Anything of potential value to authorities was shredded anyway. If the 'authorities' came in to get something, what could one single young male staff member do to stop them? - absolutely nothing! What a joke!

For the record, I think the tech was way more in then than now. The tech kept changing after you left, it got worse and worse, until GAT when it got fu'ked over big time.

I don't think that is the only point though. Harry, Ethel and Pat were good people, and in those days were left alone to run their org (in comparison to later times, anyway). They had a huge care factor for their staff and public. They wouldn't be just walked over, and they had the balls to stand up to anyone who tried to come in and by-pass or fu'k them over. Compliance with insanity wasn't something they went along with. Being in ANZO too, allowed them to get away with it for a time.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

...Burying the bodies was always a hassle tho' :coolwink:

You're right there. The local authorities are taking a definite interest in my practice of laying a new concrete slab for a garage each week... :whistling:

[ttamaad]

I remember those ludicrous 'night watches'. Bill had to do some and I was really scared for him.

The bloody night watches... what a scam to incite fear and uneasiness around the place. I was the Sup at the time as well. I had to supervise all day, go and do my "wog job" at night and then return to the org for night watch and be ready to supervise the next morning.

It was a laugh really... I complained bitterly because the auditors weren't required to do it so why should I? I tried pulling rank (being a professor and all) nah, no go there either. My argument was that I was dealing with the public all day just like an auditor so why should I be treated any differently... hey it was worth a shot but we had to save the org from these sp's that were going to break in at any time... thinking about it now, "those sp's" must have been ordinary people like you and I, just going about their business.


and I remenber the shit about the 'reads' HCOB and all of the kerfuffle about that. We had to M9 it.... And then it was cancelled by a new HCOB which read that the earlier one wasn't written by whoever had said had written it and we had to word-clear the new HCOB ...all over again! I don't remember all that shit though, but I think Bill copped it,

When all this came out, I was required to get it all sorted in Qual and be on post supervising at the start of the day. Sometimes I have less than half an hour to read the new HCOB, get wordcleared, have "total understanding" and get onto post to sort some poor public out on an HCOB that they had spent the day before learning the previous versions and now had to "unlearn" them

I had to do my stats daily and if they were down on the previous day, I was sec checked ... before or after I did my "wog job"

Hey Ceedia, remember I copped a Court of Ethic's hearing one day after you (As Qual Sec) came down into the Academy and "caught" me asking one of the public to go and check their student points for the day as they seemed a bit short. The court of ethics was given for asking students to falsify stats. I am sure you gave me a cramming order for something but HCO took it up

Harry was the bloke who did the Court of Ethics... he took me into his auditing room and we talked about a camping trip in New Zealand. He was so funny... he then made me read some HCOB and told me to get home so I was well rested. I was assigned a condition of danger... HCO took over and after that I was sec checked every day for the next week or so, whether the points were up or down.

I then got hammered for pulling up a public (Richard Yared???) after he started uncontrollably laughing while listening to a tape. I sent him outside because he was disturbing the course room and he promptly went and red tagged. Apparently I had invalidated his win. I was f-ing furious when I got ethics handling and refused to have him in the course room. Every time he turned up, I routed him to ethics. I got hammered from all sides as I was stopping his completion but I was so pissed off. I kept saying if he could red tag after being on course, then he was being a case and should be in the HGC not the course room. He finally finished the course on Fnd.

[Carmel]

[QUOTE=ttamaad;172520]<snip>

Hey Ceedia, remember I copped a Court of Ethic's hearing one day after you (As Qual Sec) came down into the Academy and "caught" me asking one of the public to go and check their student points for the day as they seemed a bit short. The court of ethics was given for asking students to falsify stats. I am sure you gave me a cramming order for something but HCO took it up

Mmm! A bit below the belt in my books, Bill, but I'll answer it anyway.

No, I don't remember you copping a Court of Ethics as a result of some cramming order I wrote on you. However, I do remember writing more than a few cramming orders, on instances where students points, success stories and the likes were being solicited. Seeing it annoyed me, and when it started to become a bit more commonplace, it used to shit the hell out of me. I used to cram on 'stat push' HCOPL, and a reference on how 'an unusual solution' to a problem (ie down stats) would only become another problem.


Harry was the bloke who did the Court of Ethics... he took me into his auditing room and we talked about a camping trip in New Zealand. He was so funny... he then made me read some HCOB and told me to get home so I was well rested. I was assigned a condition of danger... HCO took over and after that I was sec checked every day for the next week or so, whether the points were up or down. <snip>
Nor do I have any recall of you being sec checked every day. The only sec checking I remember on staff prior to the Henderson mission in 83, were the joburgs.

If I caused that situation for you, then I would be sorry. However it isn't real to me that I did (jury is out on that one). There's a bunch of stuff that I recall, prominent in my mind, that I regret. What you've stated here, isn't amongst it though.

[ttamaad]

Mmm! A bit below the belt in my books, Bill, but I'll answer it anyway.

No, I don't remember you copping a Court of Ethics as a result of some cramming order I wrote on you. However, I do remember writing more than a few cramming orders, on instances where students points, success stories and the likes were being solicited. Seeing it annoyed me,

Sorry, Ceedia, this wasn't an attempt to derail anything you have said or to say it was your fault... Looking back, it was something I remembered with a smile... It was quite funny... I apologise for any inference... it was not the case that I even considered you were at fault



Nor do I have any recall of you being sec checked every day. The only sec checking I remember on staff prior to the Henderson mission in 83, were the joburgs.

If I caused that situation for you, then I would be sorry. However it isn't real to me that I did (jury is out on that one). There's a bunch of stuff that I recall, prominent in my mind, that I regret. What you've stated here, isn't amongst it though.

Sorry, I used the wrong wording. I spent several days having o/w pulled in session and this was happening after supervising, each evening. For some reason, I was on the list of "must have overts" after the Cont TTC debacle. I was also required to remove all the Cont TTC student points off the stats and apply the condition for each week that the stats were different. The Jo-Berg was apart of the continued handling....

I have to say, though, that I aren't blaming you for anything... again, it was quite a humorous story to me. I apologise for any confusion and upset

[Voltaire's Child]

Absolutely appalling. In a normal "church", a person could file assault or defamation charges against someone else who behaved that way without any reprisals , a person could move about freely. Hideous how often they violate their own tech and policy and how they'll do anything to hurt people instead of facing up to the fact that they are the ones in the wrong virtually every single time.

So sorry you had to endure that shit. Glad you're as feisty and brave as you are.

[Carmel]

We non SO had no idea that an AO was coming to ANZO. We considered that we were doing pretty well after the recent staff rip-offs to up-lines, and we were re-establishing our org. We weren’t being bothered with orders from SO mgt particularly (those of us not in networks, anyway), and the stats were trending upward again. One of our friends had become the CO. Our past CO had become the CO CLO. The senior SO Execs on staff in our org (who we had liked and admired), had left and gone up the org board or had ‘blown’.

One day in early April, this guy just walked into my C/S office (the usual thing to do was to knock). He was in SO uniform, but wasn’t wearing a hat or jacket or anything. He seemed jovial, light hearted, easy going and all the rest, but he didn’t wait for introductions or introduce himself or anything – he just started asking me questions and that was odd. I didn’t know who this guy was, and wondered how he could be so blaze about barging in and interrupting me like that with no manners. I didn’t arc up on it, I just simply and politely asked him to wait up, and asked him his name and what his post was.

Straight up, he asked me if I’d interrupt LRH like that. I was like, WTF? Then he repeated the question. I said that I wouldn’t because I’d recognize LRH and wouldn’t have to ask. He said that because he was a Commodore’s Messenger and in addition to that a CMO Int missionaire, that as far as I was concerned he might as well be LRH, and that I should show him the respect that I would give LRH. I didn’t understand that concept at all at the time, and it probably showed. I asked him if he had a name. He looked at me for a couple of seconds, then said that his name was Matt Henderson.

I asked him what a missionaire was (cause I didn’t know at the time). He explained. I asked him if he was on mission in our org. He said that he wasn’t, that he was on mission at the CLO. That he was in ANZO to help with re-establishment after all the recent changes. I was cool with that idea, cause I thought we were doing just fine with Jo running our org, and we all were just doing our jobs. (Needless to say probably, we didn’t get off on the right foot, considering that in short order he did end up coming into our org and running the show.)

Just a few days later, we got the first heavy 'hit' of the mission in our org. We witnessed Jo (our new CO/ED), being physically routed out of the org. It looked like she was being man-handled somewhat, and Jo was obviously looking perturbed. Matt was fuming and he was physically moving her around while she resisted. We were like "WTF is going on?" At one point, he said something like “get on with your production, this woman is being declared, and if anyone has a problem with that, then they’ll have a problem with me.” We were all stunned, and wondered what the hell had gone down. This was so out of the blue, and we didn’t understand it at all. Jo was one of our mates. She was a ballsey chick, and a good chick, and she was doing well running the org.

We were keen to know what was up, but things were crazy in the HGC that day (I was holding Genny’s lead C/S post - she was off on preg. leave at the time and IIRC I think I was still also holding the Qual Sec post). It was frantic that day, and I didn’t get time to think about it until later on. I went downstairs to talk to my hubby, but I couldn’t find him, and no-one seemed to know where he was. There weren’t mobiles/cell phones in those days, and us broke staff members didn’t have home phones, so I didn't know how to contact him or where the hell he had gone. I kept asking around. I was told that he had an altercation with the missionaire, that he told him to “get fucked” and left. I thought he wouldn’t have left without telling me, and I didn’t get it. Apparently, Tim questioned Matt as to what the hell he was doing when Matt was escorting our CO (Jo) out of the org (Jo and Tim were good friends). Apparently Tim and Matt had an altercation about it, it got a bit physical (just shoving – no punch up or anything). Matt was going to finish with Jo, then get back to Tim.

Tim was already jack of orders on the book sales lines (he had previously been busted off the Dissem Sec post and at this time was D/FBO for MORE – glorified Bookstore Officer). Now this! He decided he wasn’t going to hang around for Matt to get back to him, he left the building and went home.

That night, I found out what had gone down. I tried to convince Tim to go back on post the next day, but he wouldn’t have a bar of it. I knew he would get into trouble, but upon arrival at the org the next day, I was shown his SP declare. I was seen by Henderson, and two other Execs. It was put onto me that I had better handle Tim to come back in and confront all this, by paying for and doing a 'decks program' ($500 - which was a lot for a staff member in those days). I was told in no uncertain terms that if Tim didn't show the next day with dollars in hand, that the declare would be formally issued the next day.

I went home that night and we had a hell of a fight (our first fight). No way could I cope with the prospect of choosing between my husband who I adored, and scientology which I considered had given me a life. I was frantic. I wasn’t prepared to even look at having to make that choice. We yelled and cried a lot that night, but I won't go into all of that.

In the end, Tim succumbed to my wishes. He went into the org the next day, paid for a decks pgm on his credit card, and went off to Folo to do it. (It consisted of writing up o/ws, a lot of mest work at the Folo premises, and a bit of unsupervised study – he was there for about a week).

So this mission hit with a bang, a big one! Mostly we were all gob-smacked! While we had heard of and/or had a slight taste of stuff like this, we had never been confronted with anything quite like it ourselves. At this time, from a staff members perspective, this kind of thing was very foreign. Obviously this was the end of an era which was bliss in comparison, and just the start of a new one with many horrible insanities to come.

[Panda Termint]

Good grief!
Thankfully I was interstate and missed most of this at the time!
Let 'er rip, Carmel, don't hold anything back! :D

[scooter]

Yep - get the whole insanity out into the daylight, mate.

i've been trying for several weeks now to put together the pieces of that whole insane time.

It's seatbelts and popcorn time! :drama:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

:goodposting: :biglove: :drama: :waiting: EP

[EP - Ethics Particle]

If I ever wrote/write my story, the following would be at the tag end of it. Recently, some stuff has “shifted” for me, and for my hubby (who now has less concern re me maintaining my anonymity on this message board). ANZO has been so “sheltered” in so many respects. While there are many indicators that so much needs “rectifying” - on the surface for so many around these parts, it CAN seem that the “the Org” is more on track than not, in the pursuit of “Freedom”.

Well, not so I would think, and some time ago realised. It is not always at is seems. Why are the vast majority of the OL’s of the past (opinion leaders), and those who “stood up” in the name of “freedom”, now so long gone and nowhere to be seen? For those of you who have asked, and for those of you who know me, the following is what went down just before I left. It’s not been so noble of me, to withhold it to date – as I know it may impinge on folks who know me/knew me, who are still sitting on the fence. The atrocities going on within the CofS, aren’t just “make believe”, and few and far between in some remote place like the USA. They happen here to, and soon you’ll be hearing more from others, who have copped it hard in our own back yard.

We’ve all had our different experiences, but from my experience, any and all in ANZO who have tried to carry that Flag for “freedom”, who have fought for sanity within the ranks and who have refused to “give in” to the “mental compliance” required by the powers that be – have been persecuted to the point of submission, or have left. The following is part of the story as to why I left.

The last straw (97/98):

I had already been through 6 months of arbitrary ethics handlings, and six intensives of sec checking (at my expense), because I wasn’t complying and/or wouldn’t comply and change my “think”, in regard to whacko org management intervention on a dissem cycle I did, and because of where I was at on the “church” and its general operating basis. They found no “heinous crimes” during my sec check and had nothing on me, and supposedly exhausted all avenues in regard to “handling” me - but that’s another story (as a note, I was a “public” at this point, although prior in my Scn history, I held senior tech and admin posts in the org, as well as power fsm status in the field). I thought I was through and could finally “walk” without a “label” (slide out the back door so to speak).

It was Jan 98 and I had just gotten back from a trip back to NZ for a family reunion/holiday, with my husband and boys. I had thought I was “done” at the org, prior to leaving on holiday, but I was called in “urgently”. If it were not for the fear of my kids having to choose between me and Scientology – down the track, I would have said “get fucked, I’m out!”, but at that time, this was of major concern to me. I gained so much from Scientology, and I didn’t want my kids to be denied the gains that I had made (easy to see in hindsight, that this was foolish – especially now, given that I know the actual scene). Mistakenly, I had decided to play this out, and wanted to slip away quietly without an SP declare.

I went in as “ordered” and was confronted with a KR (knowledge report), from a Scientologist who we had a bit to do with, some years earlier. We’ll call this scn’ist Bob (I won’t name him, I care for his family and he was just a pawn in the game – if anything, I feel sorry for him).

The KR from Bob, stated that I supposedly had an affair with Bob, some 6 years before. It gave some specifics like; we didn’t actually have sex, we just “heavy petted”; he licked me out several times, but I didn’t return the favour; we had a very sensual shower one time; this “affair” reportedly went on for 3 months, at a time when I was running the Class V org; that one of my selectees knew we were having this affair; and I can’t recall what else it said. Nor can I recall every detail or sequence of events – but some things stick in my mind – and that’s what I will tell you about.

I went into shock! – Big time! I knew this guy was a huge “dub-in” case, as did most who knew him (he would make stuff up, then believe it, we reckoned). I was saddened, as I had affinity for the guy, his wife and family. I didn’t get where this had come from. My hubby had given him work, when he needed it. And I had done a marriage handling, on him and his wife (she was a doll). Things between Bob and I hadn’t been great, but nor had they been bad.

I objected to the KR being given any credibility, let alone being acted on – for several reasons. At the time, I thought, these reasons would/should have been clear and unquestionable to anyone who had a brain, or to any scn’ist who new ethics tech:
- It was written by a “psych case”, who had never finished a major course in Scn, and one who had no “stats” or “products” (while that may mean little to me, it would normally be highly relevant to an ethics officer)
- It was referring to a time when I was ED of an org, and doing very well with that org. Highest Ever Paid Comps for years (the org’s main stat), just recently uncrossed cash/bills (“solvent”), and $250,000 of previously not confronted refund requests handled or paid out. Staff were winning and so were public. The “affair” was reportedly to have taken place at this time (another point that should have/would have been very relevant to an ethics officer)
- Per “Second Dynamic Rules” policy letter, ethics orders, punishment or discipline for 2D activities should not be the business of orgs and not administered.
- I could get evidence, that the report was bullshit, and I gave specific examples.

...but alas, not so. My objections and data were negated/denied. And my question re "WTF relevance does this have anyway?" :angry: was continually ignored.

I had to hang around for a while. I was sitting and stewing. Then Shane Brockdorff - an old flat mate of mine, co TTC member (we “trained” together), once Snr C/S ANZO, and Class 9 auditor, turned up to “audit” me. He used to be my friend, but this night, he was as cool as a cucumber toward me. This is a guy, who knew who I was, and what I was, and what I had done/”achieved” within the Scn ranks.

“1st interview”

I saw the CO OSA (Vicky Hannah), the RTC mission I/C, and the RTC mission MAA go into an auditing room. Then Shane took me into the auditing room next door, and began an “INAY” (I’m not auditing you)”session” of course. He had an ear piece in his ear, and I could see that the live “camera” in the room (intended for auditor training), was on. I got quite fearful at this point. I knew those dudes next door were about to witness what was gonna go down. I had had months of punishment and insanity from those two fascist type missionaries (fired directly from and run by DM), and my adrenalin started pumping. I took the cans, and Shane started questioning me for withholds – straight up! I couldn’t believe it. The comm cycle (conversation) went something like this:

Me: WTF are you doing? You’re asking for my overts with Bob, and trying to pull withholds on me, without any standard sessioning, no sleep check, no food check, no metab, and no ruds?
Shane: What did you do with Bob?
Me: Excuse me!!!!!!!! WTF? What are you doing? What is this? That’s a listing question, and you aren’t even giving a fuck about a read on the question!
Shane: I know you had an out 2D with Bob, What did you do?
Me: I can’t believe this, what are you doing? We trained together? That’s not a confessional or sec check question. That’s a fucking listing question. You know as well as I do the meter reads on “yes”, so WTF are you doing, what tech are you applying with this random “steering” ?
Shane: I want you to tell me about your out 2D with Bob. What did you do?
Me: So you are willing to persist with this fiasco, and piss on all your training and the tech, cause you’d rather follow the orders of miscavige and his henchmen, than get toasted?

At this point, Shane went “red”, and said we’d be taking a break. (he obviously was told to stop there, and went into the room, where the spectators were watching and controlling the “session”). I heard the yelling.
Shane came back, put ear piece back in his ear, and continued. He was very surley with me. He proceeded with “your needle is dirty”. I responded with “well of course it’s fucking dirty – you are invalidating the fucking shit out of me! We did e-meter drills together REMEMBER!!! Why would it be fucking clean when you are being such a fascist c’nt!

Shane just kept on, and I kept bucking and rejecting. So lucky I was trained, and didn’t put my “case” or myself in his “hands”. I knew what he was doing was SO DAMN off the wall, that I was gonna remain cause at all cost. I was scared though, and I was shaking uncontrollably at one point. I could fight, and I kept fighting, but inside I felt terrified and trapped. I was very confused and felt my world was caving in me. It took me all the strength I could muster to hang in there.

I kept insisting to Shane that he wake the fuck up, and look at what he was doing, and get some balls for god’s sake and stand up to the nazi mongrels who were forcing him to do this, but the same line of questioning just went on and on. It took me everything to hold back the tears, but I did. I didn’t want to give the pricks who were watching, the gratification of seeing me “crack”/”fold”. I kept insisting that he get Bob in, that he get the two of us together, and that I would/could prove that Bob’s KR was full of dub-in (bullshit), on Bob’s part.

Finally, the session and the battle, came to an end (I thought). Vicki Hannah (CO OSA) came in, and said that Bob was there, and that she was wanting to talk with Bob and I. I stayed in the room. In walked Bob, out walked Shane, then Vicki started to talk.

Bob gave his story. I was furious! I wanted to fucking deck the bastard at that point. I was bursting with anger and frustration, my blood was boiling, but I had to sit and listen to his account of events. I kept staring at him. If looks could kill, yes – he would’ve been dead. I bit my tongue and copped it – til it was my turn.

Finally it was my turn for a response. I wanted to yell and scream and cry, but knew that I had to contain myself, if I wanted to make a point. The following is pretty roughly the conversation that went down, between Bob and myself, with Vicki there arbitrating. It may sound crude and/or rude, but the dialogue between us, shows that Bob was bullshitting. Please see it, in that light. It went something like this:
(Note: I was confronting him, looking at him while he either had his head down or was looking out the window into the dark)

Me: So, you say, we had an affair for 3 months, but never actually fucked?
Bob: That’s right!
Me: Why didn’t we fuck Bob? If we were so passionately in love with each other, and had the opportunity, why would we not? We were adults for chrissake, not bloody teenyboppers?
Bob: I don’t know, we didn’t need to.
Me: Oh come on! Why would we not fuck if we were so passionately in love?
Bob: That’s the point, we were in love, and we didn’t need to. (I gave up on that one!)
Me: So per your KR, you licked me out on several occasions, but I never sucked YOU off?
Bob: That’s right
Me: Did I ever offer, or was I just happy for a one way flow?
Bob: You offered but I refused!
Me: Excuse me???
Bob: I just wanted to satisfy you, wasn’t in it for myself
Me: You mean to say, that here was a woman who you were passionately in love with, wanting to suck you off, and you were refusing the offer?
Bob: Yep!
Me: Well that’d be a fucking first, especially in this bloody country! You’d be a rare one BOYO!!!
Bob: I am a rare one, and I pride myself on it. (bloody lovely! Gave up on that one too)
I had all sorts of comments at that point, and Vicki pulled me up on my obscenities, and put me back on track.
Me: What about the shower? (a whole crew of us were having a weekend away. Bob and I went there two hours earlier (with my kids) than the rest of the four families, because we were the ones who were free to get there and get everything working and warmed up in the daylight, before the rest of the crew arrived there in the dark. At this big old empty mansion in the Blue Mountains, the water was nearly frozen in the pipes, and it was cold and damp when we got there. We spent about an hour and a half, making it warm and welcoming for those who were to arrive shortly after).
Me: So you say we had a romantic shower when we got to there, before the others arrived?
Bob: Yep
Me: What about the fact that the water was all but freezing at the time, and that it took til the next morning to get hot water through the pipes? A romantic cold shower in the blue mountains in August – are you fucking kidding me?
Bob: Didn’t matter, we were in love.
Me: Come on! In that freezing water, your cock would have shrivelled up and disappeared – How romantic would that be? What did we do in the fucking shower?
Bob: We just loved each other, we didn’t notice the cold.
I turned to Vicki – “Don’t you see how absurd this is? He’s in a fucking dream world! Can’t you SEEEEE that? Vicki said to me “Do you have any other questions for Bob?”. I said “yes”.
Me: So, if we were having a shower when we first got there, where were my kids?
Bob: They were in bed asleep.
Me: Well there ya go! The others got there for dinner a couple of hours after us, and my kids were still up and played with the others when they arrived. Didn’t go to bed for two hours later.

I turned to Vicki – “Obviously this “story”/”fantasy, doesn’t wash. I would hardly leave my 3,4 and 6 year olds to their own devices in a strange environment, running around high balconies, stairs, ponds, pools and the like with no supervision, would I? He says they were in bed. Come on!!! – like I could say to my extremely active young men “come on boys, mummy’s just going to go and have some slap and tickle in the shower with Bob (and before Daddy gets here), so I just need you to have a little sleep for a while, OK?. Yeah right!!! I was furious and I was getting more than slightly sarcastic with the lack of any sane response from Vicki on the matter. What more did I have to say?

Vicki: We’ll leave it there then.
Me: So do ya get it now? Will ya drop it now?
Vicki: Thanks Bob.... then she looked at me.....I’ll be back soon.

STUPID me, felt relieved...of course I had proved that this guy was living in a fantasy land.....but not so apparently........the interrogation continued.

Shane: So what did you do with Bob?
ME: WTF??? Isn’t that cleared? It’s more than apparent that Bob is bullshitting/in a fantasy land, and you are still persisting with this crap line?
Shane: Tell me about the sex between you and Bob?
Me: WTF? C’mon Shane, ya can’t tell me that some guy is gonna turn away getting sucked off by a woman he is “passionately in love with”, or have a cold shower in the blue mountains in August. Surely you see the outpoints/ the discrepancies – he’s dubbing in for god’s sake – nothing happened
with him and me. It’s more than apparent that he’s bullshitting. Wake up. Don’t do this. How will you sleep tonight? Tell those fuckers next door to get fucked. This is INSANNNE!!!

Argued for some time, and then...

Shane: Have you ever had physical contact with Bob?
I’d had enough, thought “OK, will tell ‘m what he wants” Christ, I just wanted out – and all my reasoning wasn’t getting me there.
Stupid me: Yeah, while dancing one night.

One night, I put on a Pirates and Wenches party for my staff and public who we had come to know and love. It was at my home, we had put nets up all over the place and mocked it up as a ship. And yes, all the girls came as wenches, and the boys came as pirates. We had about 200 people there. Just like all the girls, I was dressed up as a “wench” – had some cleavage showing – oh my god! We all had a great night. During the evening I had danced with Bob, and just about every other bloke there. And yes, we all had fun with each other. The usual female/male attentions (that come so naturally and feel so good) were running high. But as usual, we all knew where the line was and didn’t cross it. I certainly didn’t even get near that line with Bob, let alone cross it. I danced with him to some slow supertramp track, and yes our hips were touching at one point and yes my tits were obviously touching his chest (whoopdy bloody do!!!). Big deal – aren’t they always when a man and woman have a slow dance?

You’d think that I had seduced him and taken him to the bedroom and fucked his brains out – given the questioning from Shane, the accusations and the amount of time spent on one bloody absolutely NOTHING dance! “weren’t you being sluttish and provocative showing your cleavage?” “wouldn’t having your hips touching, been turning him on?” Weren’t you getting turned on with your breasts against his chest?” etc, etc, etc, for about an hour and a half. I argued “no overt there baby!” he argued “how could that not be an overt?” I argued “not per my moral code”. It went on and on.

Finally, Shane said – we’ll leave it there. He was escorting me out, and told me to go and wait in a certain area. I said “no examiner hey?” (I knew there wouldn’t be). I said he should maybe give himself an instruct on “Illegal Auditing” HCOB (tech bulletin).

Vicki saw me. It was now say 3.30am (I had been in the org on this cycle for seven and a half hours). She said that I should go home and get some rest – lovely! Had to be up at 6.30am next morning to get kids to school, and me to work. I went home. Quite numb, and very “lossy”, very drained and spaced.

That was the first “interview”. Pushing the submit button on this will help me get the confront up, to tell you about the second - the following night. And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.

Dear Ceedia,

I hope you don't mind me quoting your entire first post on this thread - it's just that it now becomes clear :duh: why you called it the "Tag End, of the catalyst..." and how the GAT evolution fits into the picture. (well, sometimes guys are not too bright, ya know...) :no: :blush: :melodramatic:

We've come a long way since early September, have we not? :thumbsup:

Now, back to business!

Mike, formerly known as Roy and EP

[Carmel]

So things had certainly changed in Sydney Org with the arrival of Matt Henderson and his CMO Mission. As I said previously, we didn’t know what had hit us. We had previously had a taste of that hard cold ruthless attitude and command, but it wasn’t the ‘norm’. Now it was overpowering. We all have our different perspectives on what went down, and about what occurred at this time. The following are some things that I won’t forget (and now remember more clearly, than I have in previous years).

- The mission I/C came into my office and started going through pc folders on my desk. I asked him what he was looking for. He told me that he was looking for a certain pc’s folder. I asked him why. He told me that I needed to C/S him for a PTS R/D.

Rather than ask him what he was trying to handle with this staff member (which I should have done), I told him that ya don’t just “C/S” someone for a PTS R/D. I tried to explain that it would only be programmed for a pc who needed it case wise, and that this pc was winning on the grades. I told him that I didn't see that I had the option of programming him for a PTS R/D.

He went ballistic at me (how dare I accuse him of “executive C/Sing!” etc). He was screaming at me and towering over me (I’m 5’5 but he was at least a foot taller). At that point I didn’t know what to do. I had to stick up for myself somehow I thought, as he was using his physical height (and gender) to dominate and intimidate me. Stupidly, I stood on my office swivel chair and started yelling back down at him (it was either that or cry, and I didn’t want him to see me do that). Then he grabbed the back of my chair, which made me physically unstable, so I instinctively put my hand on his shoulder to stabilize myself. Then he went off his brain – I supposedly “pushed” him (maybe I did, but maybe I didn’t). He called “HCO Bring Order”, and two SO members came straight into my office. They physically got me off the chair (I must have looked like a bloody goose standing up there), and man-handled me down to HCO.

At that point I was put on a “decks program” at CLO. Unlike Tim, I wasn’t asked to pay for mine. I was at CLO during the day, writing up o/ws for 1/3rd of the day, and doing mest work for the other two thirds of the day. That mest work included cleaning the toilets with a toothbrush at times. There were a few of us on mest work from the org, and we would make a joke about it all. We were laughing a lot. “How easy is this compared to being on post and shitting ourselves, all day and night long?”. We also joked about where we’d like to stick the toothbrushes and how we would do it. It was actually a relief being there, as opposed to being on post. The fact that we were ‘having fun’ really got up the goat of the mission I/C, and made things worse for ourselves, but somehow we kept laughing about it – it was all just so bizarre.

I went to my moonlight job at night as usual, then a couple of times I snuck into the org to check out the folders of a few particular pc's. I saw that the mission I/C had written a C/S for the staff member we’d argued over, stating “do PTS R/D”, when he was smack in the middle of grade one I think. That wasn’t something an auditor could or would follow – it was joke! It was never done though. The FDN C/S was in overload, cause she was C/Sing the Syd Day folders as well as those from FDN, so the staff just simply ceased to have auditing (including this staff member who absolutely had to have the PTS R/D that day!). I was off post for about a week at that time. When I went back on post, I wasn’t allowed to C/S for staff after that without permission. They were simply left in the middle of whatever they were on, after the mission I/C went off his rocker over the staff being audited in production time. The only "auditing" the staff received was on sec checks.

- It was a Thursday, and there were interns on the line up to comp that week. That would count toward Paid Comps (the Org stat) and other important GDS’s (gross divisional statistics). The day before, I had said that two of the interns on the line up probably wouldn’t make it. The mission I/C didn’t like that. He said that they’d have to make it, and that it was my responsibility to see that they did. I just looked and said nothing. I couldn't agree, 'cause I knew that it wasn't going to happen, but I didn't dare say that it wouldn't.

It was about 1.45pm or so on the Thursday. He came into my office and asked what was happening with a particular Class IV intern. I said that she was in session, but that she hadn’t made it, and couldn't without doing a few more sessions. I tried to explain that even if this particular session went well, there were still a couple of requirements for the internship that she hadn’t met. He went off his brain, and told me that I was CI (counter intention) and that he was by-passing me.

I followed him. He went down the hallway of the auditing rooms, and started knocking on the door of the auditing room that the auditor was in, while she was giving a session. I tried to grab his arm and stop him, but he just shoved me on the floor. I was a bit shocked by this (to say the least), and then the intern came out with her pc.

He told the auditor to send the pc to exams (mid process, and after a disturbed session). He asked the intern for her check-sheet and signed off all the steps that I was supposed to attest to her having completed, as her C/S. She “went through lines” and attested to her Class IV internship. (for the record, I got that auditor back a few months later to complete her internship properly, much to her relief at the time)

He left me alone for the rest of the day, and I didn’t see him on the Friday. But then Monday came. He asked me what I was doing on post. I told him that I was C/sing as usual. He blew up, because I was supposed to be back on the decks. Needless to say, I went back on the decks.

- This time on the decks, I was helping with food prep, at a grotty little SO premises just on the outskirts of the CBD. I was peeling soft potatoes (tons of the bloody things) when a messenger came, and told me that I was to report to the mission I/C pronto. So I got my stuff and walked down the road to the FOLO.

He was being nice to me (which was somehow more scary than when he yelled at me). He told me that he thought I was a good person, but that he was unsure, and that he was going to give me this last chance to prove it. He wanted to send me “on mission” to Adelaide.

I got a huge brief about what SP’s they were down there and what they had done. I didn’t buy it, but sadly I took the opportunity as an “out” for myself. He told me to go and see a person about getting an SO uniform for the “mission”. I explained to him that I wasn’t SO, that I hated the uniform, wouldn't feel comfortable in it, and that I’d do just as good of a job without it. He insisted that wearing the uniform would give me more ethics presence. He got mad at me again, and I succumbed again (I ended up wearing one of those bloody uniforms on the plane to Adelaide, and while I was in that Org).

I had my “mission orders”, and he had told me that he had an “on source” staff member there, who’d let him know, whether or not I had performed. On the flight down there, I was reading my mission orders. I was contemplating following them, despite the fact I knew that they were wrong, and I was talking myself into the "fact" that they were justifiable because it might save my arse (following his orders wouldn't really do any harm - not!). "I'd look like a dickhead, but it wouldn't matter because I didn't know those people". I was stewing about all this and I vomited (I grabbed one of those bags behind the seats). I have never before or ever since had sea sickness or air sickness (despite the fact that in the past I have been a passenger in the air during aerobatics and despite being on very rough seas). Looking at what those mission orders were, and contemplating following them, made me physically sick.

I got to Adelaide Org, and then did my bit (I followed the first steps of the "mission orders”) – shykes. I got all the staff together, and we had a muster. I “R-factored” them, that Andrew Simmes (their recently busted ED) and Tom Reid were SP’s. Then I told them that anyone who didn’t like that, could walk and would be declared as well. Well, fu’k me! What could I expect – about 6 walked out of the muster! Then I felt like a dick, and so bad. Why did I do that? Disaster! - I’m so sorry for doing that! That was wrong – I was trying to save my arse at the time and felt more concerned about my own arse than anybody else’s. :sad:

Next thing I was talking to the guys who were left, about how I had gotten there, and what was going on in Sydney. The next day, those guys who had walked out of the muster were back. Together we tried to work out a strategy to keep “the wolf” at bay. I ended up false reporting to him (which I didn’t feel shit hot about). I told him that it all went over fine, no adverse reaction, and that we were all working together as a team (which was true except that we weren't part of his team). I carried on for a few days. I did some reg’ing, FESing, cramming and C/Sing. We just did what we could to "deliver" and I worked my butt off, so I had something that I could report. When speaking to the mission I/C I just poo pood the concept that the staff were "dissafected" and made out that all was well. I remember having a couple of staff help me make up some bullshit telexes to send to the I/C. When he rang me, I had two others there, who would listen in and write down what I should say if I was stuck, or if they thought I needed to add something. It was only phone calls, but quite scary at the time.

I was there for about a week, till he said to me that it was a failed mission, despite the fact that production and stats were up. He said that I was a “wholly shiftless” and that I was being ordered back to be routed off staff. I asked why. He told he knew about my false reporting, and my meetings in regard to how to answer certain telexes. Someone dobbed me in - I never did find out who, and am still curious about that one.

I got back to Sydney, and wasn’t sure about what I was supposed to do, or where I was supposed to go. My DofP was insistent I get back on post. She said pc’s were being held up on going into session, 'cause their folders weren’t C/Sed in time. So, I just went back on post, and the Mission I/C seemed to forget what he had said to me (he saw me on post, but didn’t say anything).

- After being back on post a couple of days (from the Adelaide “mission”), I heard mention by the SSO of “Bruce’s service”. I asked “wtf?” “What do ya mean by “Bruce’s service"?”. She said, “Oh, haven’t you heard, Bruce Taylor dropped the body while you were away”.

Bruce was a flatmate of mine. We were friends. We were also in the TTC together. He was on a “decks program”, had an asthma attack, went to hospital and was in a cubicle, his oxygen tank ran out, no-one noticed in time, and he died (short version of the story). I started screaming. A certain wench who I never liked said “don’t worry, he’ll get another body” (as if that was the fu’king issue!). I grabbed her around the neck and shook her. How dare she say that and how dare no-one tell me! How dare no-one seem to care! I just walked out of the org after that, went to Hyde Park across the road, and later went home (I didn’t have to go to my moonlight job, because I had already lost that job through going to Adelaide). The next day, after I had bawled my eyes out for hours, I stepped up and got some balls.

God bless you Bruce – I’m still so sorry that the passing of your life and valued presence was seemingly ‘missed’ by so many who loved you so dearly.

Rightly or wrongly I blamed the mission for killing Bruce. At that point I wanted to kill the mission, and I didn’t particularly care what they might do to me as a result.

- A good friend of mine (Shane), had just arrived back on staff from a leave of absence (he went off for a few months to deal with some debts). He saw the crap that was going on too. Staff were coming to both Shane and I, and appealing to us for help in regard to what was going on. We didn’t know wtf to do! We just said, write it up, but most were scared to write anything up, especially as it just about all involved the Mission I/C.

We encouraged them to. We had a bunch of staff members come to Tim’s and my flat for a couple of nights, to help them write up their KR’s on the mission, and on what had been going down. In those days, reports were hand written (no word processors). We didn’t write the KR’s for these guys, but we did help them to avoid HE&R, generalities and the likes, which would stuff up the credibility of their KRs. The KR’s contained many and varied instances of out tech, BS stat push crap, and evidence of a suppressive regime...now the “norm” in the org. The KR’s contained specifics on what the mission I/C was doing and ordering, and how these new “stats” were being obtained (Scooter gives specifics in his story).

We ended up with about 40 or so KR’s. We knew that they’d be stopped if we put them on org lines for routing to the various Int Mgt terminals (who we trusted at that time). A courier though, would cost a lot! Shane had just made a stack of dough (on his leave of absence), and he said that he’d cover the courier costs. But he also wanted a courier service that required a signature at the other end to make sure that they got there. He paid for that. We made copies and sent them to every man and his dog, who we knew of up lines. It cost Shane about $200 back then, which is equivalent to about $2000 now. A hell of an ask for anyone, let alone a bloke on staff!

We had all these separate envelopes packaged up (containing all the KR"s), to be sent by courier to the various terminals up lines. We also had one especially for the Mission I/C. Shane seemed to be cool about it all at the time, but I was shitting myself for sure! I delivered the envelope for the mission I/C to CLO. On the one hand I felt great about it, but on the other, I didn’t – I knew that there’d be reprecussions that I probably wouldn’t like, at least initially.

The next day, Shane and I were off post again, doing mest work at CLO/FOLO. Tim my hubby, and others who had written KR’s contained in the package, were on the roof at CLO, writing o/w's again. A day or so later, Shane and I were called in to see the Mission I/C (separately), and shown “interrogatories" done by Syd Day and Fdn staff.

The questions were all about Shane and I. What had we said, done, inferred, instigated, etc, etc, etc. These interrogatories were named, and before the staff filled them out, they were R factored that they had better tell all. Clearly, some were scared not to tell all, and there were others who wanted brownie points with the mission I/C, so they simply dobbed us in with the odd exaggeration to make themselves look good in his eyes (for giving him data that he wanted)! The betrayal there, from some who I thought were friends, cut pretty deeply.

I had warned Tim not to get sucked in by this guy’s affinity, that he’d undoubtedly use to suck him in to “coming clean”. Tim didn’t heed that warning, and our marriage was on the rocks. This time, it wasn’t me trying to get Tim to toe the line, it was Tim trying to get me to toe the line. This time it was Tim pleading with me, cause he didn’t want me to be declared. At this point Tim tried to tell me that this guy wasn't the bad guy that I made him out to be. What a balls-up!

The mission I/C showed us our SP declares, but then said to carry on with what we were doing – scrubbing toilets! A day later, he showed Shane and I our Comm. Ev issue, for “mutiny and conspiracy” among other things. How odd? One day we get shown our SP declares, then the next thing our handling has been whittled down to just another Comm. Ev.

About three days later (after we had the comm ev), we were sent back on post (like nothing had happened), and the HAS gave us a telex from the SNR C/S Int, saying that our comm. ev’s were “suspended”. A few days later, the AO opened up on the third floor of our Org. A couple of weeks later, Shane and I received “commendations’ from Snr C/S Int, for “Keeping Scientology Working”.

We never heard another thing about the comm ev on usual lines, except for on every OT Elig sec check since that time, this bloody thing would come up, and we’d get sec checked on it, again and again (they were still putting it in my face in early ’98, just before I left).

-------------------------------------

There is lots that happened during that mission (obviously). I’ve just given you some stuff that left some scars. Scooter has given specifics in his story, and there’s no doubt others (now on the board), will give you their account of events. In the scheme of things, later missions like the '97 RTC mission, were much worse. However, given where we were at, when the '83 mission arrived, it seemed to hit us all a lot harder. The overall adverse affect of that mission was huge on Syd Day and FDN - and it was our first real encounter with the "new" regime.

[Panda Termint]

Holy Crap!

Thanks for writing this, Carmel, surviving this demonstrates true strength of character and perserverance!

[cantsay]

good god Carmen, your story is mind blowing..... this is exactly what people still in Scn need to read. You are one tough cookie!

[scooter]

Thanks for your info, mate - fills in some of the gaps I had about that whole totally insane time.

I'd love to get a few others' stories from that time posted here - not just Sydney but also Miami, Munich and anywhere else the "Finance Police" went trampling

Ain't it great to be away from that bunch of nutters? :D

[Once bitten]

So sorry to hear about Bruce's death. He and I were fellow asthmatics on staff, but I remember his was so much worse than mine. He was so strong about not using his inhaler, and was a dedicated scientologist through and through. He had a brother, Robert who wasn't on staff but was a paying public. I audited him.

I would have felt the same way as you - that the mission killed him. So sorry.

:bigcry:

:rose:

[Feral]

Great writeup Carmel. When I joined staff in Syd F in '87 they were still talking about that mission and how it had more than halved the size of the org. People would speak of the glory days prior to that mission and how the staff got paid and the org was busy and expanding.

I must have heard one hundred different stories about it. It sure was a "group engram" they were still traumatized! I wonder if they still talk about it.

It seems to me to be at the same time as the SF mission holder conference.

It was the beginning of the end for the cult, enemies were made at that time who have started the anti CofS movement that is so strong today.

Was it all brought on by DM? What part did Hubbards paranoia play? I still wonder.

You were very strong to last through all that. :thumbsup:

[EP - Ethics Particle]

good god Carmen, your story is mind blowing..... this is exactly what people still in Scn need to read. You are one tough cookie!

Well, Carmen was a pretty strong-willed, self-determined gal too Carmel darlin'. :coolwink: I'd take it as a compliment for sure! :yes: :thumbsup:

See if ya recognise this "Carmen", Carmel and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljv0zDATu3c

Tell more when you have time and the mood strikes ya. :)

Love,

Mike

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I know exactly what you wanted to do with those toothbrushes.

I would have made sure that they were covered in plenty of hot peppermint toothpaste as well, just for that extra freshness!!!

That would certainly give them that "ring of confidence".

[Carmel]

I’m skipping some of my “staff history” here, but I haven’t felt inclined to look at my time a C/S in the mid ‘80’s, so I’m gonna continue with the time when I went back on staff as ED in the early '90's.

DISCLAIMER:

Deciding to go back on staff and trying to build up the org, etc etc, was all just a crock of shit, from my perspective now, but it wasn’t at the time for me and that’s the perspective I’m writing it from – not the perspective I have now!

If only the likes of dear Myssy “perceived” me back then, contacted me and let me know the real scoop – ah Geez! What a bloody wild goose chase all for nothing, and an endeavour that in hindsight I see as such a bad one, and one that today I am ashamed of. Bloody hell! (Can’t have all been my fault - I think I’ll blame Myssy, it’s easier :coolwink: ).

Despite the fact that I feel the cycle of me going back on staff was a crock of shit, I’m still shitty about what went down and the insanity at the time. It’s hard to get my head around this one. I know now it that it was doomed from the onset, and I’m now not proud at all of ANY assistance I gave to the CofS, yet somehow it still irks me so much that everything ended up going so sour at the time.


I had been “successful” as an FSM of “new public” after WISE consulting in the field, after I left staff and the C/S post in late '87. Around ‘91/’92 a recruit Mission arrived in ANZO, wanting to ‘man up’ the Class V Orgs with those who were doing well in the field. At that point the last thing I would have ever done, would have been to go back on staff! But then a picture was painted, and I fell for it.

A bunch of us “ex staff” were all at a briefing by a couple of these missionaries from the US. They did a great sell job. They ‘indicated’ all the things that we thought were fucked about orgs (without any prompting from us), and were pretty intent on getting us lot back on staff to “fix the orgs up”. I thought it sounded great, but I wasn’t going to be in on it, because the thought of being on staff again gave me the heebie jeebies, and I wasn’t “staff member material” anyway.

These missionaires said that they had me named on their mission orders to get back on staff and take over the hat as ED of Syd Day. I didn’t believe this, but they were bloody gunning for me despite my outright opposition to the idea, and despite the fact that I was repeating the same “legitimate objection” over and over. They arrived at my house on several occasions determined to get me back on staff. I made it clear why I wouldn’t and couldn’t! I offered to help recruit people who could and would. They named four people in the field who had agreed to sign a contract and go back on staff if I was going to be the ED. Aagghh, that stung! I spoke with these people to see if it was true, and supposedly it was. Here were my friends saying, “come on, just imagine it, look at what we could do with that org if we all went back in together and were running the place.” :hmm:

I was in turmoil. I so wanted the org to be a certain way, but I wanted others to go and make it that way, not me! I thought I was being selfish expecting others to do it, but by the same token I was ‘justifying’ my staying out of it, by pointing out that whoever went back in would need ‘active’ members in the field as well. I also made it clear that I wasn’t the one for the job, because of my disaffection with management. I put any and ALL of my “disaffection” on the table (which was a bloody shitload including all sorts of “enemy line” stuff), yet they didn’t appear to bat an eyelid. They agreed with me (verbally anyway), and insisted that the gripes I had, were the very things that upper management wanted 'handled' within orgs. The scales started to tip for me at this point. I had the idea, and/or was latching onto the hope that things were finally going to change. :duh: :bigcry:

I discussed much with these missionaries. I didn’t withhold a thing, yet they didn’t get me RB’d, or false data stripped, or crammed, or sent to ethics or anything. “Things MUST have changed”, I thought. They ‘agreed’ with my gripes, and re-iterated that because of where I was at on all that, and my production record to date, that I was the one for the job.

They gave me a new hope that management were finally on the right page (not! :angry: ). If I wanted the orgs to reform, then how could I sit back and not be a part of that, while being so critical of the way they were, without contributing to making the ‘change’. :duh:

I wanted and I hoped, but I still didn’t trust. I said I would look at it, but that I’d only entertain the idea if I had it in writing that I could run the org on my own terms, as they had promised. The missionaires weren’t adverse to this idea. I said that if I was to go back on staff, that I’d require an addendum to my contract signed by them and the CO ANZO, confirming all that they had promised/agreed to – they agreed.

I typed up a three page addendum to the contract. I can’t now recall all that it included, but it included stuff like the following:

- That as a mother, I wouldn’t be required to neglect my responsibilities as a mother because of my post in the org.

- That I could and would take time off from post, if and when I was required somewhere else, because of my kids.

- That because I had a family, I wouldn’t be required to work over and above usual “Day” hours (8.30am – 5.30pm with an hour for lunch).

- That I would be granted “leave” to go on vacation, once a year.

- That my after hours activities (like mixing with non-scios, and my consulting) wouldn’t be restricted or prevented because of my position with the CofS.

- That the org would be under my control, and that I wouldn’t be by-passed by management terminals, unless the GDSes were down-trending for 6 weeks or more .

- That any and all telexes to my staff would have to go via me.

- That my staff wouldn’t be subjected to any ethics or justice actions without my approval

- That I would have control of FP, given that I followed policy.

- That “Proportionate Marketing” HCOPL was something I’d be allowed to implement, in regard to FP and excessive financial expenses promoting to a very large and dead CF.

- That I could off-load whatever staff I wanted, and would not be product officered on “Recruitment in Excess”.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on weekly stats, but be given breathing space to operate on six week and three monthly trends.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on WDAH’s at all, but was happy to be answerable to the number of course completions.

Etc, etc, etc – all pie in the sky crap, in hindsight.


Two missionaires, and the CO ANZO, signed the addendum (that I submitted) to my contract, with no deletions. I talked my hubby into the “fact” that this was our chance to help make things ‘right’. Tim agreed (begrudgingly) to me going back on staff. I called my mate Shane (long term partner in crime within the CofS), who was at Flag at the time, for his permission or “blessing”. He was very much like me - same scepticisms etc. He didn’t like the idea, and didn’t trust what I was being told, but I gave him all the scoop, during a few phone calls, and he finally came around. Once he said “ok”, I was excited, and went ahead. I felt like it was Christmas. :duh: :duh: :duh:

Three of my mates came back on staff with me. There were four of us (at the top of the org board,) running the org as we thought it should be, and we were given the breathing space to do it. We had all been on staff before, and we all knew how to run a business (having had successful businesses of our own).

It was good for a while, but then (in fairly short order) the screws started to get tightened, and it eventually all went belly up, but I’ll put those details in another post.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

I’m skipping some of my “staff history” here, but I haven’t felt inclined to look at my time a C/S in the mid ‘80’s, so I’m gonna continue with the time when I went back on staff as ED in the early '90's.

DISCLAIMER:

Deciding to go back on staff and trying to build up the org, etc etc, was all just a crock of shit, from my perspective now, but it wasn’t at the time for me and that’s the perspective I’m writing it from – not the perspective I have now!

If only the likes of dear Myssy “perceived” me back then, contacted me and let me know the real scoop – ah Geez! What a bloody wild goose chase all for nothing, and an endeavour that in hindsight I see as such a bad one, and one that today I am ashamed of. Bloody hell! (Can’t have all been my fault - I think I’ll blame Myssy, it’s easier :coolwink: ).

Despite the fact that I feel the cycle of me going back on staff was a crock of shit, I’m still shitty about what went down and the insanity at the time. It’s hard to get my head around this one. I know now it that it was doomed from the onset, and I’m now not proud at all of ANY assistance I gave to the CofS, yet somehow it still irks me so much that everything ended up going so sour at the time.


...snip...

It was good for a while, but then (in fairly short order) the screws started to get tightened, and it eventually all went belly up, but I’ll put those details in another post.

I am so looking forward to hearing about this, Carmel! :yes:

"Missionaires" told me such blatant lies when I was routed to ITO - ostensibly for the OEC/FEBC, which was represented as a 6 month cycle...etc, etc, etc.

I also had written agreements as to time off, visits to and from home, etc.

Those things were not only not heeded - it was as if they had never existed!

Love,

EP

[Carmel]

When I first started on post as ED, I wasn’t yet joined by my mates, and I felt like I was hit by a ton of bricks. It was numbing. It was nothing like the org I had worked in. It was sad.

- The Treas Sec was in tears, ‘cause the electricity was being turned off that day, because she couldn’t get a further extension on paying the electricity bill.

- 2/3 rds of phones had been cut off, because the phone bill wasn’t paid. (There were a couple of phones on another account still operating).

- 1/3 rd of the staff were miserable and didn’t want to be there. A few of them had resentment toward me, because I had mostly fsmed to Syd F and the AO (not Syd Day).

- The GI was around 1 or 2K a week, and had been for months.

- The C/S wasn’t well, and was pretty well chair bound, in her tiny office.

- There were only one or two HGC auditors

- The purif area was a shocker, and wasn’t stocked with supplies that it needed.

- The academy was relatively empty.

- There was over $250K of unpaid refund/repayment requests ‘pending’.

- The cash/bills was crossed by about $200K (including PTF -payments to flag - and monies owed to the AO).

- Prospect lists for GI, and Paid Completions were ‘thin’ to say the least.

- There were no FSM’s or field groups feeding the org.

- I literally had 5 metres of telexes expecting responses, on my first day.

- I discovered that my very good friend who was already on staff, was leaving! Aahh! They hadn’t told me. If they had, I probably wouldn’t have gone back there.

- And yeah, the org had run out of toilet paper.

I had Marion Whitta as my boss, she was CO Folo, and she was good for about a year and a half. If anything she was supportive and she was willing to back me up on what I wanted to do. She taught me how to answer telexes in a ‘PR fashion’ that would get the desired result from management in the US. She got her ANZO mgt guys off my back. When I was pissed off over any mgt or AO type crap, she could and would calm me down and help with a favourable solution. She allowed that org to be my baby, and let ME run it, despite the odd eye roll.

We obviously needed ‘public’. I kept FSMing, and somehow got most of my selectees to do their services on a Syd Day schedule – business hours. I rang everyone and anyone in the field who had ever FSMed and briefed them on the “new” Sydney Day.

I spoke to all the staff, to determine whether or not they should stay or go. For those that wanted to go, we just gave them a swift route out (with no sec checks, cause we didn’t have auditors to do them), which was pleasing to both them and me. We had enough staff, and I didn’t want “camouflaged holes”, so we only recruited people we knew and wanted, who we knew could actually help.

I refused to financially contribute to the monthly “bulk mail out”. It would cost the org $10K a pop, and it was all this glossy promo that I knew was ending up in the rubbish. I knew this ‘cause in the previous years I’d get on average about five particles in my mail box every day, and 95% of it was chucked without inspection. $10K a month to further irritate those people who had the mis-fortune to be on CF, and while the org needed new public because it couldn’t even afford to pay the power bill, was just a joke.

I also refused to pay for a third of “event costs”. The shit hit the fan. We had a meeting with all the key ANZO and AO Execs about it. Imagine a piddly org like Syd Day, having to pay one third of event costs – the same amount as the AO, which made sometimes 200 times the income than what Syd Day made! :angry: It was awful, but they couldn’t show me policy that required me to pay $10K towards their event, and I had policy to show them why I shouldn’t. In the end, I agreed to paying 10% of event costs (I wanted it to be 5% which would still have been generous). Syd Fdn's input also went down to 10% and the AO ended up paying 80% (instead of the 33% that they were previously getting away with). From this point on, relations between the AO and I became a little tense, and the CO Tours and I just didn’t talk at all after that.

ANZO was being run by women at this point, and the majority of them were just manipulative nasty bitches who had lost the plot I thought, on the real game. There was only one bloke amongst them with any weight, and he was an absolute girl when it came to standing up to the girls. They were all in so tightly together and scratching each other’s backs on everything. I was on the outer, and that was hard, but at least I had Marion.

JD, the reg, and I were good partners. We agreed that we should sell training, and the line up for that was relatively cheap and got good results pretty well straight up. We were selling “life repair” if needed, the purify, the trs and objectives co-audit, and then training packages (with a few intensives thrown in there, in case they were needed for repair. We just didn’t sell HGC auditing as a way of getting up the bridge, ‘cause we both thought it was crap.

In a fairly short time, from having no-one on the purif and no-one on major courses in the academy, we now had 10 or 15 or so consistently on the purif, and lots of students on course in the academy training on levels or NED. I spent most of my time drilling student auditors in the academy or reg’ing, and many of our students were co-auditing up the bridge. I was still FSMing for the org (and after my first three months on post, my FSM/C went to staff pay), and my friends in the field were also bringing selectees to our org for services. The org income was good, bills were being paid, the staff were relatively happy, not working on post after hours and they were taking their annual leave. On good GI weeks, we’d shout the staff breakfast at the Hilton on a Friday morning – and they’d all turn up despite the hour, because it was too good to miss.

We had the odd bludge/party time, like on Melbourne Cup day – prawns, lobster, cheeses, beer and champagne etc, with a tv set up in the div 2 area to watch the race. Staff and public alike all participated and had their punt with the sweeps we organised. Some of the SO Execs from upstairs at CLO even joined in, after I convinced them it was a good PR exercise.

I got the staff to stop calling the non-scios “wogs” (I just about sent them all to cramming on the 4th dynamic), and I got rid of the dreaded “hand to LRH” at muster every morning (that was a bit of a mind fuck though – I got taken off doing muster for a while ‘cause I refused to do it, and objected to it when it was originated). At muster every morning, I’d brief the staff on the world news, ‘cause most of them had no clue as to what was going on (not that I ever had a good grasp on it, but at least my grasp on it was better than nothing).

I wasn’t a good “Product Officer” and I never really wore that hat. I wasn't an ED's asshole, but because of who I knew, and my determinism to get what I wanted, I 'winged it'. I didn’t get my juniors to write up a condition formula every week, ‘cause I thought that was crap, but I did get them to write up a BP and we’d go over that with due regard to the condition formula that they should be applying. I considered that a “formula” every week based on stats, was such an arbitrary, and to some degree would keep one “pegged” ‘cause there was no room for futures – it was all just PT stuff, which wouldn’t get anyone anywhere in the long term. I could and did “product officer” staff on specific things that needed doing, but I didn’t product officer on stats – I hated it myself, it was non-productive, so I didn’t pass it on down to the staff. Besides, while things were going well, I didn’t need to, ‘cause my ass wasn’t really on the line. I did push for “sub-products” ‘cause I knew if they were gotten, then the GDS’s (gross divisional statistics) of the org, would look after themselves.

Daily, I used to get “metres” of telexes from mgt terminals in the US. I tried to get their arrival stopped, but that didn’t happen. I would glance through them, to make sure I wasn’t missing out on any info I wanted, but 90% of those telexes went in the waste paper basket without ever being answered. My senior knew that I’d trash the telexes, but she also knew that I had the addendum to my contract which she knew those telexes ‘violated’.

In the first year and a half, we did ‘well’. All the refund/repayment requests were ‘handled’ (we either paid back the dough, or got the person back on side, withdrawing their request). We uncrossed the cash bills and were in the ‘black’. We pretty well had competent and happy staff. Our “public” were doing well, and despite the odd shitfight with management, the staff were free to wear their own hats and were at least getting something that made a difference in their pay packets most weeks. AND, most importantly, we NEVER ran out of dunny paper!

It wasn’t all peachy. Despite my addendum to my contract, being ED of that org at that time, I was continually blocking and fending. The amount of time I spent on getting various management terminals to fuck the hell off, was just INSANE. We had good stats, yet the effort from them to by-pass and get us to change out tack, was never ending. AND, there always seemed to be 10 bloody bosses (whose sole job it was to send orders) to every one of us suckers who had a hard enough time trying to get through reading the bloody 'orders', let alone the time to reply to them or even contemplate implementing them. It was a continual thorn in the side, and it never made sense.

Despite that, the org was still ours, and we were still 'in control' (or thought we were). This soon changed, and things started to turn pretty damn sour, before going totally south.

[Kookaburra]

<snip>

It wasn’t all peachy. Despite my addendum to my contract, being ED of that org at that time, I was continually blocking and fending. The amount of time I spent on getting various management terminals to fuck the hell off, was just INSANE. We had good stats, yet the effort from them to by-pass and get us to change out tack, was never ending. AND, there always seemed to be 10 bloody bosses (whose sole job it was to send orders) to every one of us suckers who had a hard enough time trying to get through reading the bloody 'orders', let alone the time to reply to them or even contemplate implementing them. It was a continual thorn in the side, and it never made sense.



It never ceases to amaze me the number of people and the time spent on pushing a few delivery terminals to do all the work. 10 or 20 chiefs to every Injun just doesn't make for an efficient org!

[Tiger Lily]

Carmel this is great!! Good for you on trying to work from inside first -- you know that you gave it your best. And good for you for standing up for your time with your family. . . those requests were totally reasonable. I'm shocked that they gave even the apparency of an agreement with them.

You are a strong woman -- I LOVE that you tried to stop the "hand to LRH" at Muster and the use of the word "wogs". :roflmao: YOU GO GIRL!!!

Thank you for this!

:)TL

[Good twin]

Carmel......this is so.......familiar.........please continue.

[RogerB]

Carmel,

It's wonderful to be reading these posts of your integrity to purpose and the truth of good common sense being applied.

You're a wonder to be admired, and I do so:yes:

The other side of the coin is that you posts remind me of the perrenial idiocy of the second-raters who, somehow or other, manage to get into "senior" management positions without ever having truly been in the trenches and themselves produced on the posts or areas they crazily issue orders down on.

The funny true story in that vein is that when I moved into the Div 6 area in London Orgs in 1967 the stats were so bad as to be a disaster area. And as I now look back and recall, there were no orders coming down the lines from WW. But interestingly, when I had gotten the stats up to the highest in the world . . . my London Day org Div 6 alone producing more Stats than any continental area of orgs as a whole (my Fnd, of which I was also Div Sec, was another star performer) . . suddenly I was getting daily, weekly telex instructions and orders from GOWW Pub Exec Sec of what to do!!:angry: I won't name the dunce, last I saw him he was on FSO staff, but man, he'd never been near or worked in a Div 6 . . . and here's the silly bastard rendering unreal, stupid orders to the guy his seniors are Commending for highest stats on the planet! Now is that dull, or is that dull?

Now, why this is stupid and bad, is that it by-passed my FP and local judgment on where to invest promo money.

My ED, bless her heart, Ellen Jones, was too political and would not allow me to job endanger chit or orders query . . . and could only plead with me, "Can't you do them both?":duh:

My reply would be, "You bloody show me how, and I will!"

Etc., etc.

RogerB

[Terril park]

Love your management style Carmen. :)

I think this story gives some indication why the missions were so successfull. They didn't have all that crap on their lines.

[Carmel]

Thanks folks, but my last post was about a two year "honeymoon period" that didn't last.

Things were trucking along fairly well, but out of the blue, we got a few orders from RTC, directly. We had previously gotten info type telexes, and/or blanket type study orders, but never orders specifically relating to our org.

Pete the HAS/HES (who’s shoulder I used to cry on frequently, and who could stand up to management), came to see me quite distraught with this bloody telex from RTC. I went and saw Marion the CO Folo about it. She was less than communicative with me, and just said that Pete would need to follow it. It wasn’t an answer as to what was going on, but she wasn’t going to give me one, and she clearly had bigger problems.

Then I discovered I had similar telexes. One of them was to take my PES off post, and put her through an Ethics/cramming program. Eeek – there appeared to be a new regime and it was getting slammed in hard! I was just ignoring the telexes and telling a couple of the staff to do the same. Marion was no longer being supportive, and Pete and I didn’t know what to do, except just hope it would go away.

It didn’t go away though. The SO guy that looked after telexes came down from CLO to see me, to get me to answer specific RTC telexes. I didn’t want to confront them. I couldn’t just answer them ‘cause I hadn’t complied, but doing “orders query of’s” would have taken time. Next thing Marion was telling me to answer the fucking telexes. So, I did the “orders query of’s”, and got the telexes taken upstairs to CLO. Next thing Marion came down to see me, and she suggested we go down the street for a coffee, so we did.

She told me that my telexes to RTC were not sent, and that they wouldn’t be. She said very slowly and deliberately “you DON’T query RTC, compliance is the only option”. I was stunned and like, wtf? With every origination I made to her in response, she just repeated the same thing, and wouldn’t give me any data. I asked her if that meant that RTC were now senior to LRH policy, did that mean we should just chuck KSW out the window etc, etc. She wouldn’t answer me and she wouldn’t talk with me. I could tell she knew much and was carrying a lot of weight on her shoulders, but at this time, I didn’t know what, exactly.

I got back to my office, packed up my stuff, told JD I wasn’t well, and that I was going home. I just left and took the RTC telexes with me.

I had several calls at home that night, demanding the telexes. In the end, a CLO crew member had driven out to my place to get them. I was still writing answers to the bloody things when he arrived (we used to just hand write our telexes, and the telex op would type them up for us). I just “PR’d”/bullshitted my way through them., and wrote what I thought they wanted to hear, and stuff that I thought I could get away with, at a pinch. It was a load of crock.

The next morning after muster, I told the guys (PES, HES and FBO) what had gone down. We didn’t really know what the scoop was, and we didn’t have a solution. There was still the pending order for the PES to be taken off post and put through ethics and cramming. This is embarrassing, but anyway....between us, we agreed to “pretend” that the PES was being handled. Eeek! That was the only solution I could come up with. We mocked up bullshit stories and compliance reports, for that and for other demands from RTC. I couldn’t comply to their orders, but nor could I get away with not complying, so I just pretended to comply, and got the other Execs of the org to do the same. Not good, but there ya go.

Soon after this, I got what I considered a very rude and ignorant telex from one of the RTC terminals, and i answered it with a bit of a knee jerk reaction. The CO Folo had stopped checking my telex responses, and it went through. My response wasn’t that bad (at least it wasn’t any worse than the one I had received in the first place and was responding to), but then an order came down to take me off post and get me sec checked.

I objected to being taken off post – the GI of the org had been great, the Paid Comps were ‘HE’s’ (highest evers) for years, and we had interns coming off as completions. It didn’t make sense. I argued to Marion that she should telex back, and say that she was cramming me on PR, on how to answer telexes, and/or on respect or something. But that was a no go.

I had gone off NOTS about a year prior to this, ‘cause it wasn’t going well for me, and I didn’t like it. It was grinding. I used my post and my schedule as a reason to be unsessionable, and somehow I got away with slipping under the radar on that one, despite the fact that I had ‘hours’, and that I was incomplete on OT5. Now that I was off post, requiring a sec check, two of my remaining intensives were used for that sec check.

I was back on post in a week, with a very different mindset. Looking back at it, this was a pivotal point for me – not only in regard to my time on staff, but also in regard to where I was at with upper management and RTC who were now obviously running the show. I felt like a fish out of water, and I really didn’t want to be there anymore.

The other Execs didn’t want to be there anymore either. Within a few months, Pete the HES/HAS took a leave of absence ‘cause his business was in need of his attention and he had financial problems. The FBO broke her contract and left staff after having her baby. Greg (Supra) also left due to business and financial problems. These were the three that came back on staff with me. The PES also took a leave of absence. So why the fuck did I stay? Fucked if I know!!! I had stopped FSMing in new public. I had lost any and all enthusiasm I had and I didn’t really care anymore. I had decided I was fighting a losing battle, but for whatever reason I stayed. I told my senior that I had had enough, and that if she could find another ED, that I’d be out of there. I had been there for two years at that time. I had another year to go on my contract, which I didn’t care if I broke or not. My free-loader bill would have been zilch, ‘cause I didn’t get any services that I hadn’t paid for myself.

I realized that I had wasted my efforts over the prior two years. What we had built up was being shat on big time. I didn't have the will or power to oppose it. The whole tone of the place changed, and everything became an effort. Any wins we had, didn't counter the crap. Getting new public started to become a struggle, the GI wasn't just rolling in anymore, and the number of students we had went on the decline. I was dealing with what was put in front of me, but I was no longer ‘creating’ anything, and I couldn't be bothered anymore.

An “eval” was done on the org (along with the other orgs in ANZO). I was briefed on the “eval”. The “why” for the org not making 5.4x the stats, from an arbitrary date 6 months prior was..... “The ED of the org was not wearing the hat of the ED, instead she was wearing the hat of an FSM and that of a C/S in the academy, with other fish to fry”. Straight after this eval, I was being comm-ev’d for stuff like in-subordination and non-compliance, through to impersonating a scn executive staff member and using scn harmfully.

A few months down the track, Phyll Stevens arrived back in ANZO as CO ANZO. This wasn’t good. I remembered our conflict in the early eighties, and so did she. Straight off the bat, she asked to see the addendum to my contract. I handed it to her. She read it, and literally ripped it up in front of me. I told her that she didn't have the right to do that, and that I had a copy of it. She looked at me, for some seconds, said nothing, scowled and walked off. I got the message from her loud and clear, and knew I'd be pretty fucked from then on. Phyll wasn’t someone to counter, and I didn’t have the inclination to even try after that. She scared me in the early ‘80’s, and she scared me even more at this time, ‘cause it was going to be even harder for me to “hide” and stay out of her way with the post of ED. I somehow just had to bide my time. I made it clear that I was leaving, and I tried to be invisible as much as possible, but sometimes I didn't do a very good job of that, and the face-rips were just horrid.

I had already "given up" really, before Phyll arrived back in ANZO. But, under Phyll, the by-pass of the org, into every div, despite "up statistics" in many cases, was constant, and something I no longer tried to tackle.

In the end, I was putting up with it all, and just shutting up where and when I could. Every now and then, I had an objection, but mostly, I didn't really care anymore. Elaine Allan, a replacement for me, was up-lines being hatted up to take over Syd Day on garrison mission. I was relieved when she arrived, I was finished up there and “free at last”, but I sure as hell wasn’t happy - I felt squashed and like I'd just wasted three years of my life.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

The stupidity and mean-spiritedness you describe here, coupled with my own experiences of the same shit - and that of so many others...:confused2: DM and his minions defy description. I really do not know what to say. :no:

'Cept that I love U! :yes:

EP

[Good twin]

The last time I was offloaded I felt very much the same way. I was used up and defeated even though I had gotten production into new ranges across the boards. I was so beat up by being micro managed from a distance that I didn't bother to query the cycle. I just pack up my belongings and left.

I dunno about you, but for me at that point I felt strangely relieved but mad as hell. I knew the black PR campaign on me was coming and my good work would be attributed to others efforts.

[Carmel]

The last time I was offloaded I felt very much the same way. I was used up and defeated even though I had gotten production into new ranges across the boards. I was so beat up by being micro managed from a distance that I didn't bother to query the cycle. I just pack up my belongings and left.

I dunno about you, but for me at that point I felt strangely relieved but mad as hell. I knew the black PR campaign on me was coming and my good work would be attributed to others efforts.

"Used up and defeated" is a good way to describe it, GT. I felt "stangely relieved" too, but 'sad' as hell as opposed to mad - I kinda didn't have any fight left in me to be mad.

One of my brothers rang me the afternoon I left staff, and said "are you out?" He was over the moon, and so was Tim my hubby. That night they were in party mode, and it was drinks all round for a few folks who came over to celebrate me getting off staff. I wasn't in a celebratory mood at all. I had to withold my grief - I was griefy not from relief, but from the loss of it all.

Like you, when I left, the GDS's were in a whole new range accross the board. They weren't as good as what they were a year prior, but compared to three years before when I took over the place, they were five to ten times what they were. And the org was back in the black, as opposed to in the red, yet I was already being sneered at and looked down upon by the SO mgt guys for killing and crashing the org. Somehow the CO Tours was getting any and all credit for the financial state of the org, and for the numbers of people on the purif and in the academy. Bizarre, but even more bizarre considering she I detested the sight of eachother, and she had absolutely nothing to do with my org, staff or public.

As you are obviously aware, it's quite disturbing being treated and regarded as a piece of shit, by those who ya worked with, and knew ya weren't. Memories got so conveniently altered to fit the current 'branding', and that was something that I could never understand or accept.

[Div6]

The bottom line is that the Sea Org is a suppressive group. They have totally failed at 1) Ensuring the confidentiality of the tech;
2) Preserving the tech;
3) Delivering the tech;
4) Protecting upstats;
5) Managing and building orgs;
etc.

It is time to treat them for what they are.

[Free to shine]

As you are obviously aware, it's quite disturbing being treated and regarded as a piece of shit, by those who ya worked with, and knew ya weren't. Memories got so conveniently altered to fit the current 'branding', and that was something that I could never understand or accept.

Yes indeed. It was the final kick in the pants for me to leave, understanding this. No friendship or family connection could ever be trusted, ever, if that person was still subject to having their loyalty and integrity swayed by a hidden agenda that did not recognise the individual.

ps What happened to Marion in the end?

[scooter]

Thanks for putting this up, Carmel.:clap:

It's horrifyingly familiar to me as I was Fdn at this time watching what was happening but only seeing some of the story.:omg:

It just shows how rabid-dog-insane many of the "management" really are in the cult - with or without Lil Nap they'll manage to turn any expansion into contraction of the organization because it's all they can do - they can't make things grow.:confused2:

Scientology kills those who would help it grow and fosters those who would kill it.

[Tim Skog]

Carmel thank you for your story. I trust that you're stronger for having survived it. Your pointing out the attempts by SO Mgmt and RTC to micro manage reminded me of the old saying: "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Perhaps SO Mgmt has a corollary version: "if it ain't broke, break it.":D

[Kookaburra]

Carmel, the BS you are documenting here is just so typical of Scn orgs it makes me want to tear my hair out. Why "management" insists on charging in and crashing every successful area on the planet is totally beyond my comprehension.

I used to think it was just an anomaly, a one off independent action of some jerk who didn't understand the first thing about policy or the purpose of an org. Often the severe ethics actions appeared to be personal vendettas. Perhaps they were but they were too frequent and on too many people in too many places to be just personal. Did you ever get the screaming response when you presented your upstat graphs in defense "Those stats have nothing to do with you!!!!" :lol: That story changes like quicksilver if they take a dip, though!

Did you ever find out what was behind Marion Whitta's insistence that you not respond with a per policy orders query of or JE chit to RTC? Marion knows better. She was trained on the OEC/FEBC at Flag at a time when it was a shining example of an on policy, booming, easy to work in org. And way before RTC was ever dreamed up. She must have had some major crap on her lines to go so wildly off policy.

Never mind, Carmel. It's all behind you now, and you're back with your old (and new) friends. One thing I recall from a tape, and have seen in life, is that people bond and become true friends when they go through some intense experience together. That seems to be happening with the ex- Scientologists.

[Carmel]

Thanks for putting this up, Carmel.:clap:

It's horrifyingly familiar to me as I was Fdn at this time watching what was happening but only seeing some of the story.:omg:

It just shows how rabid-dog-insane many of the "management" really are in the cult - with or without Lil Nap they'll manage to turn any expansion into contraction of the organization because it's all they can do - they can't make things grow.:confused2:

Scientology kills those who would help it grow and fosters those who would kill it.

Yeah, Scoots.

As you know, the ED Fdn and I had to liase/co-ordinate on much, but you may not have seen what effect the CO Tours was having on the way Rosey and her Execs ran Fdn (but maybe ya did).

When Rosey and I had one on one time, she agreed with me, and agreed to back me up. It was a different story though at every ANZO Exec meeting if the CO Tours was there, because the CO Tours had 'leverage' (GI cycles) over Rosey and would use it. Rosey NEVER counted ANYTHING that Sue Mc said and always supported her when it came to the crunch, and on various whacko schemes . CO Tours wasn't Rosey's senior (Marion was), but somehow Marion let that be.

With the CO Tours doing her thing, it was very political between the delivery and mgt orgs in Sydney at the time - the amount of mutual back scratching that went on, with no regard for the adverse effect it would cause on staff, crew, and public, was extreme. For example, I saw that many a time Syd F's staff pay allocation was just spent or dipped into big time, if and when the CO tours had one of her scams going on and 'needed' funding.

Hey, I'm looking forward to hearing what was cooking on Fdn at this time from your perspective, when you get to that part of your story. :) Funny how we haven't gotten to have a gas about all this to date - we're probably getting toward the point now where we could and could laugh about it, instead of cry about it, so it might be a good thing to do one day. :coolwink:

[Carmel]

[QUOTE=Kookaburra;236735]<snip>
Did you ever get the screaming response when you presented your upstat graphs in defense "Those stats have nothing to do with you!!!!" :lol: That story changes like quicksilver if they take a dip, though!

Yea, I saw three several SO mgt crew run that BS. One in particular (who was just a nasty piece of work), would scream at her juniors and 'force' them to do stuff they didn't want to do (because it was wrong, or risky or whatever). Then, if somehow the cycle came off, SHE would take the accolades for it. If it didn't come off though, she would 'blame' them and they'd end up in ethics, on sec checking, comm-ev'd, or RPF'd (which I saw happen on two occasions). When I was consulting and FSMing in the field, I always used to wonder how this bird got away with the crap she did - then when I went on post as ED, I found out how she did.


Did you ever find out what was behind Marion Whitta's insistence that you not respond with a per policy orders query of or JE chit to RTC? Marion knows better. She was trained on the OEC/FEBC at Flag at a time when it was a shining example of an on policy, booming, easy to work in org. And way before RTC was ever dreamed up. She must have had some major crap on her lines to go so wildly off policy.
Marion didn't turn nasty or anything, and yes she knew it was wrong. I don't think she had a choice. She looked 'hunted', she was sad, she had no support, and no doubt if she didn't comply, she would have been RPF'd.

FTS, I don't know what ended up happening to Marion. I had heard at one point that she was sent on garrison mission to Adelaide or somewhere, but I didn't get to confirm whether or not that was true. Crikey, I'd really like to talk to her now. If she ever needed shelter, she would certainly be welcome here.


Never mind, Carmel. It's all behind you now, and you're back with your old (and new) friends. One thing I recall from a tape, and have seen in life, is that people bond and become true friends when they go through some intense experience together. That seems to be happening with the ex- Scientologists.
Yes, it's all good now in that regard - some old friends back, and lots of new friends! :happydance: I'm just chugging away at cleaning out the garbage! :)

[Free to shine]

FTS, I don't know what ended up happening to Marion. I had heard at one point that she was sent on garrison mission to Adelaide or somewhere, but I didn't get to confirm whether or not that was true. Crikey, I'd really like to talk to her now. If she ever needed shelter, she would certainly be welcome here.


I'd love to talk to her again too. Even in the early days when I knew her, she was subjected to great pressure. Like your story, and that of other execs, so much happened it's hard to describe, or even believe you survived when you look back on it. :grouch:

[Megalomaniac]

I typed up a three page addendum to the contract. I can’t now recall all that it included, but it included stuff like the following:

- That as a mother, I wouldn’t be required to neglect my responsibilities as a mother because of my post in the org.

- That I could and would take time off from post, if and when I was required somewhere else, because of my kids.

- That because I had a family, I wouldn’t be required to work over and above usual “Day” hours (8.30am – 5.30pm with an hour for lunch).

- That I would be granted “leave” to go on vacation, once a year.

- That my after hours activities (like mixing with non-scios, and my consulting) wouldn’t be restricted or prevented because of my position with the CofS.

- That the org would be under my control, and that I wouldn’t be by-passed by management terminals, unless the GDSes were down-trending for 6 weeks or more .

- That any and all telexes to my staff would have to go via me.

- That my staff wouldn’t be subjected to any ethics or justice actions without my approval

- That I would have control of FP, given that I followed policy.

- That “Proportionate Marketing” HCOPL was something I’d be allowed to implement, in regard to FP and excessive financial expenses promoting to a very large and dead CF.

- That I could off-load whatever staff I wanted, and would not be product officered on “Recruitment in Excess”.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on weekly stats, but be given breathing space to operate on six week and three monthly trends.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on WDAH’s at all, but was happy to be answerable to the number of course completions.

Nothin' to be ashamed of, love.

[Carmel]

Over the last month or so, I've been queried in regard to some crap/slander about me that has supposedly been 'spread around' the ANZO field, by word of mouth. The 'stories' given are partly true, but mostly contain falsehoods/lies, along with some data only obtainable from my pc folder. Reportedly, I’ve posted the alleged version of events on the internet, which I haven’t, because the alleged version of events (twisted pc folder data) didn’t happen.

I alluded to this part of my pre scn history in my third post on this thread, but at the time I posted that, I didn't feel inclined to give details, and at the time, I didn't think it was applicable to give more info about it than what I did. Given the circumstances now though, I’m going to fill in the gaps on that part of my life and tell it how it actually was. I'm not wanting 'feedback', I'm just wanting to set the record straight and rid myself of the 'niggle' which a particular "smear campaign" has created.

Mid ’78 (at 19) I went to Melbourne, got a room in a house with some university students, and got a job as barmaid in the heart of the city. My partner was working in Papua New Guinea as a pilot. He was working for the domestic airline over there, getting his flying hours up in order to qualify as a pilot for one of the larger commercial airlines in NZ or Aussie. It wasn’t good being apart, but I wasn’t permitted to work in PNG, and there was nothing for me to do there.

I had been pretty independent from a young age, I was used to looking after myself (and others), and I was enjoying the freedom of being able to go where I wanted and do what I wanted when I wanted to. I had hitched a lot around NZ before I came to Aussie, and when I got here, I hitched around the Eastern States getting casual work when I needed to, to keep me going.

I had only been in Melbourne for a couple of months. Although I'd been in Aussie a couple of years, it was my first time working in a “big” city. With the hussle and bussle of the transport system, the crowds, the city itself, and all the Middle Easterners and Eastern Europeans around the place, it was a major culture shock for me, but I was happy to be having the experience of the ‘Melbourne city scene’.

I’d usually catch the tram to work in the day time, but I’d normally hitch home at night, because I didn’t like waiting for a tram and because I always felt nervous and intimidated on the tram at nights - It was usually full of ‘foreign’ men, speaking a foreign language, who seemed to regard me with disdain. (I didn't find out why this was till years later – I was a Caucasian female and my neck was ‘exposed’ ). I was very naive at the time, and it didn’t enter my mind that I’d ever get in real trouble from hitching a ride. I’d been hitching since I was a very young teenager, and I had only ever had one or two mildly uncomfortable encounters - Looking at it since though, clearly catching a tram would have been 'safer' than hitching.

One night at work, I was serving these three guys who I had served there before. One of the other barmaids (who wasn’t one of my favourites) asked me why I was being so friendly to those "Moroccan bastards". I had no idea what she was talking about. I asked her what she meant. She said that to them I was an "Infidel" and that I should watch my back. I still didn’t know what she was talking about, and I wasn’t friendly enough with her to push the point any further. (If I had, I would have discovered 'how' many of the Middle Eastern males in Aussie regarded/regard Western Caucasian women). One of the three guys in particular, I 'knew', or was at least familiar with, and I didn't understand the significance of what the other barmaid was trying to tell me.

When my shift ended, I went to the tram stop. There wasn't much traffic, but I stuck my thumb out when a couple of cars came by. Then these three who I had served in the hotel came by, and the one I ‘knew’ (I’ll call him Bill)) asked me if I wanted a lift home. I lived in Parkville, near Carlton which is where I thought Bill lived, so I thought “great” and took them up on the offer. Next thing, we turned off the main drag and were on another main drag heading out of town in an opposite direction. Bill told me that he just had to pick up some money from St Kilda. I was annoyed (I wanted to go home to bed), but I believed him. When we got to the house at St Kilda, they all got out of the car and urged me to go into the house rather than wait in the car. They said to come in and say hello. So, I got out of the car, waited with the driver while he locked up the car and got to the front door of the house which was open by this stage. Once I got into the house and the front door was deadlocked with a key from the inside, I discovered that there was no-one there but us. They started laughing at me, and it was only then that the penny dropped.

They did what they did with me for about 5 hours. They treated me like an electric toy or something, not a human being or person with feelings. They seemed to 'get off' on my reactions, and laughed between themselves about those reactions, as if I wasn't even there or as if I was a nonentity. At first I fought back, but then I submitted. After I totally summitted, and consciously avoided showing any emotional reaction, they seemed to get bored with me, and started carrying on with each other. At one point, I snuck out of the room we were in and made a bee line for the back door, but it was padlocked. That was a mistake, because then they got interested in me again. I was scared again, and they laughed and took great joy out of that.

They were snorting coke all night, and didn’t go to sleep (which is what I was hoping for - I was planning on getting out a window or something). They had given up on using me (and eachother) for an hour or so, and were playing some dice game. The sun had come up. Fairly calmly, I said to Bill that I had to get going cause I had to go to work. With a smirk on his face, he said “go”. I said that that the door was deadlocked. He threw me the keys.

I put on my clothes, grabbed my handbag and after what seemed liked an age, I finally got the front door opened and walked out. I was on the footpath and didn't know which way to turn. For whatever reason, it was like I was glued to the footpath for a while. Before I walked across the road to get a cab, I wrote the street number of the house on my hand. The house was on on a main drag, there was a lot of traffic, and I hailed a cab. The cabbie was really nice. I remember telling him that I wanted to go home, but he took me to the medical emergency department. I got stitched up and cleaned up there, and was advised to go and report the incident to the police.

After I left the hospital, I went to the police station. The coppa I saw seemed disinterested, and I felt intimidated by him. I had the medical report from the hospital, and he could see that I was beaten, but he wasn’t interested. He asked me what I expected, hopping in the car with three wogs (aussie term for Eastern Europeans and/or Middle Easterners). I walked away from that cop station feeling as guilty as sin and like a piece of shit. - This would not happen in Aussie now. "Rape victims" get all sorts of assistance, support, and are listened to, but it wasn't like that, back then.

It was afternoon by the time I had gotten to my place of work and I went and saw the hotel manager (my boss). He said little, except that I should go home, get some sleep, and call him when I was ready to come back to work. At the time I thought he was angry with me, but later I realised he was angry at them. When I did get back to work (a couple of days later), he asked me for the details of what went down and where the house was. He took me to the police station where I had been (despite my resistance to going back there) where a different coppa explained to us both that I didn’t have a leg to stand on (because I was hitching, I had accepted a lift with three wogs, and I went into the house with them). This coppa was nicer than the one I first saw, but he said that there was no case. My boss and the coppa argued, but it went nowhere, and we went back to the hotel to work. My boss never mentioned it again, and nor did anyone at work (except for another barmaid who I had gotten pretty friendly with).

After this happened, my partner in PNG convinced me to go and join him over there. I left Melbourne and went to PNG about a month after the incident, but I kept in close contact with the friend who I had worked with at the hotel. Some time later, she told me that "Bill" had been whacked, and asked me whether or not I knew about that, or was involved in that. I was dumbfounded that she thought that I could have been. I didn’t know the first thing about getting anyone whacked, and at the time, I wasn’t even aware that it was something that happened in Melbourne. She intimated to me that someone had "organised it" on my behalf. She also told me about a lot of underworld activity that was going on under our noses at the hotel we worked at, that I was oblivious to at the time.

I had no idea about any of this when I worked there. Nor did I have anything to do with "Bill" getting whacked – It’s something which I wouldn’t have even thought of, let alone condoned. Back then I did feel guilty about it all, and I was still feeling somewhat guilty about it when it came up in auditing. HOWEVER that guilt was not based on any transgression of my own - it was just a 'natural' emotional response, given the 'mistakes' I made, and given that subsequently I had realised how naive, blinkered, and stupid that I was at the time. I had no idea nor any involvement with the underworld activity at the hotel I worked at, nor any idea that Bill could have been or was whacked for what he and his mates had done to me in the house at St Kilda. To this day, I still don't know the full story.

So that’s the scoop on what actually went down in the spring of '78, in regard to this 'scenario' which has been somewhat bandied about of late. The version of events I've given here, is the same as what could or would have been found in my pc folder, before being 'tampered' with.

I’ll fill you in on what actually occurred in ’79, in my next post.

[sallydannce]

I am unashamedly crying. Carmel...what can I say...

You stand above the crowd, you shine in your honesty, your strength.

OSA - you are a f***ing pathetic excuse for something utterly worthless!

I can't say much right now for fear of saying something I might regret. :angry:

Carmel I send you great love.

[cantsay]

Good god Carmel, you sure have been through some tough stuff in your life. Noone deserves to have gone through all that, and then have the Church treat you like rubbish too. That just breaks my heart.

I hope to meet you someday, you are quite an inspiration.

Im glad Bill got whacked. (I know, Im evil, dont care.)

[Kookaburra]

I am unashamedly crying. Carmel...what can I say...

You stand above the crowd, you shine in your honesty, your strength.

OSA - you are a f***ing pathetic excuse for something utterly worthless!

I can't say much right now for fear of saying something I might regret. :angry:

Carmel I send you great love.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

And I'm glad Bill got whacked, too.

The world has made some progress in it's handling of rape victims since the 70's. Too bad Church of Scientology is in a time warp.

Goodonya, Carmel, for standing up to these OSA creeps. You've just strengthened my resolve to see this pathetic excuse for a church dead and buried.

[Feral]

Hey Carmel,

That was very brave of you. I'm so sorry you were forced to tell this to correct OSA manufactured slander that was culled then twisted from your PC folder.

I know a lot of the folks OSA has spread this data to are now watching this thread, in fact by telling lies like that is how OSA convinced Scooter to leave the cult.:thumbsup:

I'll just say this to any of you sitting on the fence; think very long and hard before you put yourself in a position to confess your most humiliating moments to the CofS, for when the day comes that you see the truth of the scam that data will be used, if not to buy your silence, then surely to discredit you for exposing them.

A story so foul will be manufactured and told of those moments that you will truly be sorry that you ever trusted them with your secrets.

[Panda Termint]

Thanks for posting this, Carmel.

You're a brave and gutsy girl and I thank you for putting the truth there.

As far as OSA using confidential session data to smear your character; forget about it, it's only going to bite them in the ass in the end.

Anyone they tell their tall tales too is eventually going to start wondering about the confidentiality of their own session data and, in any event, who's really going to listen to a pack of lying curs like the OSA/CofS Black PR Squad?

OSA, get a conscience for Christ's sake and, until you do, f@@k you and the horse you rode in on!

[scooter]

:bighug: Carmel and :thumbsup: for posting what you did.

OSA - there just isn't the right smilie here to describe what I'm thinking now.

I just think you are lower than single-cell organisms on the food chain - yes, I'm putting it mildly.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Good god Carmel, you sure have been through some tough stuff in your life. Noone deserves to have gone through all that, and then have the Church treat you like rubbish too. That just breaks my heart.

I hope to meet you someday, you are quite an inspiration.

Im glad Bill got whacked. (I know, Im evil, dont care.)

I hope you get to meet Carmel one day too. She is a wonderful lady, very grounded and really "has her shit together".

[Mrs Pattycake]

Dearest Carmel,

Sorry you had to post the details of that story to handle some black PR crap from OSA !

Lets face it - OSA's actions are some of the most compelling reasons to leave the Church Of Scientology.

OSA's actions prove that it is NOT a Church but a CULT.

Dealing with OSA on our repayment cycle well and truly made me realise that we had made the RIGHT decision.
The terminals we dealt did nothing but LIE and DEFEND -
they must of forgot that they were dealing with 25 year veterans who could see through all their "stunts" -

Vicki Hannah, Virginia Stewart, Michael Gordon and Cyrus Brooks ... SHAME, SHAME, SHAME !!!

***

[Alanzo]

That the Church of Scientology would take this information and twist it in order to spread vicious lies about anyone proves their nature.

The Church of Scientology can not be trusted. Especially with the most intimate details of a person's life.

I have some stories about dealing with OSA that I have been holding back on telling for various reasons.

But now that I see this, it looks like it's time to tell them.

[EP - Ethics Particle]

:bump:


Over the last month or so, I've been queried in regard to some crap/slander about me that has supposedly been 'spread around' the ANZO field, by word of mouth. The 'stories' given are partly true, but mostly contain falsehoods/lies, along with some data only obtainable from my pc folder. Reportedly, I’ve posted the alleged version of events on the internet, which I haven’t, because the alleged version of events (twisted pc folder data) didn’t happen.

I alluded to this part of my pre scn history in my third post on this thread, but at the time I posted that, I didn't feel inclined to give details, and at the time, I didn't think it was applicable to give more info about it than what I did. Given the circumstances now though, I’m going to fill in the gaps on that part of my life and tell it how it actually was. I'm not wanting 'feedback', I'm just wanting to set the record straight and rid myself of the 'niggle' which a particular "smear campaign" has created.

Mid ’78 (at 19) I went to Melbourne, got a room in a house with some university students, and got a job as barmaid in the heart of the city. My partner was working in Papua New Guinea as a pilot. He was working for the domestic airline over there, getting his flying hours up in order to qualify as a pilot for one of the larger commercial airlines in NZ or Aussie. It wasn’t good being apart, but I wasn’t permitted to work in PNG, and there was nothing for me to do there.

I had been pretty independent from a young age, I was used to looking after myself (and others), and I was enjoying the freedom of being able to go where I wanted and do what I wanted when I wanted to. I had hitched a lot around NZ before I came to Aussie, and when I got here, I hitched around the Eastern States getting casual work when I needed to, to keep me going.

I had only been in Melbourne for a couple of months. Although I'd been in Aussie a couple of years, it was my first time working in a “big” city. With the hussle and bussle of the transport system, the crowds, the city itself, and all the Middle Easterners and Eastern Europeans around the place, it was a major culture shock for me, but I was happy to be having the experience of the ‘Melbourne city scene’.

I’d usually catch the tram to work in the day time, but I’d normally hitch home at night, because I didn’t like waiting for a tram and because I always felt nervous and intimidated on the tram at nights - It was usually full of ‘foreign’ men, speaking a foreign language, who seemed to regard me with disdain. (I didn't find out why this was till years later – I was a Caucasian female and my neck was ‘exposed’ ). I was very naive at the time, and it didn’t enter my mind that I’d ever get in real trouble from hitching a ride. I’d been hitching since I was a very young teenager, and I had only ever had one or two mildly uncomfortable encounters - Looking at it since though, clearly catching a tram would have been 'safer' than hitching.

One night at work, I was serving these three guys who I had served there before. One of the other barmaids (who wasn’t one of my favourites) asked me why I was being so friendly to those "Moroccan bastards". I had no idea what she was talking about. I asked her what she meant. She said that to them I was an "Infidel" and that I should watch my back. I still didn’t know what she was talking about, and I wasn’t friendly enough with her to push the point any further. (If I had, I would have discovered 'how' many of the Middle Eastern males in Aussie regarded/regard Western Caucasian women). One of the three guys in particular, I 'knew', or was at least familiar with, and I didn't understand the significance of what the other barmaid was trying to tell me.

When my shift ended, I went to the tram stop. There wasn't much traffic, but I stuck my thumb out when a couple of cars came by. Then these three who I had served in the hotel came by, and the one I ‘knew’ (I’ll call him Bill)) asked me if I wanted a lift home. I lived in Parkville, near Carlton which is where I thought Bill lived, so I thought “great” and took them up on the offer. Next thing, we turned off the main drag and were on another main drag heading out of town in an opposite direction. Bill told me that he just had to pick up some money from St Kilda. I was annoyed (I wanted to go home to bed), but I believed him. When we got to the house at St Kilda, they all got out of the car and urged me to go into the house rather than wait in the car. They said to come in and say hello. So, I got out of the car, waited with the driver while he locked up the car and got to the front door of the house which was open by this stage. Once I got into the house and the front door was deadlocked with a key from the inside, I discovered that there was no-one there but us. They started laughing at me, and it was only then that the penny dropped.

They did what they did with me for about 5 hours. They treated me like an electric toy or something, not a human being or person with feelings. They seemed to 'get off' on my reactions, and laughed between themselves about those reactions, as if I wasn't even there or as if I was a nonentity. At first I fought back, but then I submitted. After I totally summitted, and consciously avoided showing any emotional reaction, they seemed to get bored with me, and started carrying on with each other. At one point, I snuck out of the room we were in and made a bee line for the back door, but it was padlocked. That was a mistake, because then they got interested in me again. I was scared again, and they laughed and took great joy out of that.

They were snorting coke all night, and didn’t go to sleep (which is what I was hoping for - I was planning on getting out a window or something). They had given up on using me (and eachother) for an hour or so, and were playing some dice game. The sun had come up. Fairly calmly, I said to Bill that I had to get going cause I had to go to work. With a smirk on his face, he said “go”. I said that that the door was deadlocked. He threw me the keys.

I put on my clothes, grabbed my handbag and after what seemed liked an age, I finally got the front door opened and walked out. I was on the footpath and didn't know which way to turn. For whatever reason, it was like I was glued to the footpath for a while. Before I walked across the road to get a cab, I wrote the street number of the house on my hand. The house was on on a main drag, there was a lot of traffic, and I hailed a cab. The cabbie was really nice. I remember telling him that I wanted to go home, but he took me to the medical emergency department. I got stitched up and cleaned up there, and was advised to go and report the incident to the police.

After I left the hospital, I went to the police station. The coppa I saw seemed disinterested, and I felt intimidated by him. I had the medical report from the hospital, and he could see that I was beaten, but he wasn’t interested. He asked me what I expected, hopping in the car with three wogs (aussie term for Eastern Europeans and/or Middle Easterners). I walked away from that cop station feeling as guilty as sin and like a piece of shit. - This would not happen in Aussie now. "Rape victims" get all sorts of assistance, support, and are listened to, but it wasn't like that, back then.

It was afternoon by the time I had gotten to my place of work and I went and saw the hotel manager (my boss). He said little, except that I should go home, get some sleep, and call him when I was ready to come back to work. At the time I thought he was angry with me, but later I realised he was angry at them. When I did get back to work (a couple of days later), he asked me for the details of what went down and where the house was. He took me to the police station where I had been (despite my resistance to going back there) where a different coppa explained to us both that I didn’t have a leg to stand on (because I was hitching, I had accepted a lift with three wogs, and I went into the house with them). This coppa was nicer than the one I first saw, but he said that there was no case. My boss and the coppa argued, but it went nowhere, and we went back to the hotel to work. My boss never mentioned it again, and nor did anyone at work (except for another barmaid who I had gotten pretty friendly with).

After this happened, my partner in PNG convinced me to go and join him over there. I left Melbourne and went to PNG about a month after the incident, but I kept in close contact with the friend who I had worked with at the hotel. Some time later, she told me that "Bill" had been whacked, and asked me whether or not I knew about that, or was involved in that. I was dumbfounded that she thought that I could have been. I didn’t know the first thing about getting anyone whacked, and at the time, I wasn’t even aware that it was something that happened in Melbourne. She intimated to me that someone had "organised it" on my behalf. She also told me about a lot of underworld activity that was going on under our noses at the hotel we worked at, that I was oblivious to at the time.

I had no idea about any of this when I worked there. Nor did I have anything to do with "Bill" getting whacked – It’s something which I wouldn’t have even thought of, let alone condoned. Back then I did feel guilty about it all, and I was still feeling somewhat guilty about it when it came up in auditing. HOWEVER that guilt was not based on any transgression of my own - it was just a 'natural' emotional response, given the 'mistakes' I made, and given that subsequently I had realised how naive, blinkered, and stupid that I was at the time. I had no idea nor any involvement with the underworld activity at the hotel I worked at, nor any idea that Bill could have been or was whacked for what he and his mates had done to me in the house at St Kilda. To this day, I still don't know the full story.

So that’s the scoop on what actually went down in the spring of '78, in regard to this 'scenario' which has been somewhat bandied about of late. The version of events I've given here, is the same as what could or would have been found in my pc folder, before being 'tampered' with.

I’ll fill you in on what actually occurred in ’79, in my next post.

[Div6]

That the Church of Scientology would take this information and twist it in order to spread vicious lies about anyone proves their nature.

The Church of Scientology can not be trusted. Especially with the most intimate details of a person's life.

I have some stories about dealing with OSA that I have been holding back on telling for various reasons.

But now that I see this, it looks like it's time to tell them.

<AnonSpeak>DO IT FAGGOT!</AnonSpeak>

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Gawd! - I'm thorougly shaken Carmel.. I'll have to read all this thread tomorrow.. OSA makin shit up about it you say?

Well, that does document once again that folder culling IS done!

Should make scilons think..

:grouch:

[Zinjifar]

Gawd! - I'm thorougly shaken Carmel.. I'll have to read all this thread tomorrow.. OSA makin shit up about it you say?

Well, that does document once again that folder culling IS done!

Should make scilons think..

:grouch:

Nah. Scientology *WORKS*

Zinj

[cantsay]

I have some stories about dealing with OSA that I have been holding back on telling for various reasons.

But now that I see this, it looks like it's time to tell them.

"FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!!!"

KA-BOOM!!!

Letta rip Alanzo, these assholes deserve nothing better than a serve of their own medicine. Afterall, they have to know that their overts would come back to bite them in the ass sooner or later, Ron says so.

[Megalomaniac]

Over the last month or so, I've been queried in regard to some crap/slander about me that has supposedly been 'spread around' the ANZO field, by word of mouth.
...

I'm just wanting to set the record straight and rid myself of the 'niggle' which a particular "smear campaign" has created.
...

So that’s the scoop on what actually went down in the spring of '78, in regard to this 'scenario' which has been somewhat bandied about of late. The version of events I've given here, is the same as what could or would have been found in my pc folder, before being 'tampered' with.

I’ll fill you in on what actually occurred in ’79, in my next post.


I know a lot of the folks OSA has spread this data to are now watching this thread, in fact by telling lies like that is how OSA convinced Scooter to leave the cult.


The terminals we dealt did nothing but LIE and DEFEND -
they must of forgot that they were dealing with 25 year veterans who could see through all their "stunts" -

Vicki Hannah, Virginia Stewart, Michael Gordon and Cyrus Brooks ... SHAME, SHAME, SHAME !!!

Carmel, Feral, Mrs. Pattycake,

I don't know the law, but this seems like grounds for suing for slander. I don't understand why you would not sue. If money is lacking to pay a lawyer, I think you have some friends on this board who would help.

Mac

[Feral]

Carmel, Feral, Mrs. Pattycake,

I don't know the law, but this seems like grounds for suing for slander. I don't understand why you would not sue. If money is lacking to pay a lawyer, I think you have some friends on this board who would help.

Mac

It's difficult Mac,

There is the problem of witnesses, who wants to be a witness against the CofS?

We also don't have such in writing, it's he said that she said, they haven't issued our SP declares. Should we get something like that in writing we would be pretty happy to push ahead.

[Megalomaniac]

There is the problem of witnesses, who wants to be a witness against the CofS?

If any witnesses are reading this, please do the right thing.

[WrongPlaceRightTime]

Carmel-
Wow.

Disgusting.

For someone who was nearly illiterate at one point, you sure do write well now.


You are an inspiration.

Sincerely,
WPRT

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Over the last month or so, I've been queried in regard to some crap/slander about me that has supposedly been 'spread around' the ANZO field, by word of mouth. The 'stories' given are partly true, but mostly contain falsehoods/lies, along with some data only obtainable from my pc folder. Reportedly, I’ve posted the alleged version of events on the internet, which I haven’t, because the alleged version of events (twisted pc folder data) didn’t happen.

...snip...

So that’s the scoop on what actually went down in the spring of '78, in regard to this 'scenario' which has been somewhat bandied about of late. The version of events I've given here, is the same as what could or would have been found in my pc folder, before being 'tampered' with.

I’ll fill you in on what actually occurred in ’79, in my next post.

Not bein' pushy or anythin' Darlin' - but...well, er...how's the next post comin' along? :whistling:

Love, Mike/EP

[Sir Facer]

As it was stated by Feral earlier, Carmel you are so brave to tell this story. It just goes to show the disgrace of OSA spreading blatant lies and twisting data in your PC File.
This is one of the most horrific stories I have ever heard, And one of the hardest things I have ever read about someone I really love, and there are no words that will take those events away.

Only the sadness of having to relive this again in your mind and on this board to correct a bunch of idiots.

I can only say that the more lies said about good people who are only telling the facts just prompts us all to start posting the crimes of the CSI.

It makes me want to continue to get the truth out until people Wake up to the fact that there is so much crap coming from the inside of that Church creating everything that ever gets told about them.

Keep on going Carmel! cause I think this time the foot bullet has blown the whole foot away. Now we will watch the limping of those idiots who keep shooting them selves.

[Carmel]

Thanks for your support folks. For the record, I didn't 'have' to tell anything. I did because I could, it's part of my story, and because it was an opportunity to show some that they have been hoodwinked by those who they have trusted implicitly - All good!.


Not bein' pushy or anythin' Darlin' - but...well, er...how's the next post comin' along? :whistling:

Love, Mike/EP
I've changed my mind EP (a woman's perrogative :coolwink: ). If I feel inclined to post about that time at some point down the track (as part of my story), then I will, but at this particular time I don't and nor do I feel any need to. :)


If any witnesses are reading this, please do the right thing.
Mac, I understand your sentiments on this, but realise that the guys who have been given the twisted account of what was in the pc folder are still 'in' and not necessarily even looking at get out - Some have simply bought it, and just passed it on. Fortunately though, some have smelt a rat, and it's got them to look - they would have a ways to go though, before they would be happy to bear witness against the church.

It's early days - we're certainly not ruling it out for down the track, when those who would be able to testify could/would have the mindset to do so.

[Feral]

Carmel, I've been very disturbed by your story and the lack of sanctity of your priest penitent confidential data.

What did you hear that the church accused you of?

What story was made out of this that could possibly be used to vilify you?

[Carmel]

Carmel, I've been very disturbed by your story and the lack of sanctity of your priest penitent confidential data.

What did you hear that the church accused you of?

What story was made out of this that could possibly be used to vilify you?

:grouch: Feral! Don't know that I wanted to go this far with this, but I'll post what went down, in a nutshell.

Over the last month, in regard to this episode, I've been queried by two people (who don't know eachother), as to whether I got some guys whacked after things turned sour between them and me. I've also been informed by another that they'd heard that I did. The people who I spoke to hadn't taken the data on board, but were perturbed by what they heard and the fact that some had taken it on board - hence their calls (and despite the fact that they are still "in" and are not supposed to talk to me).

Among other things (different "episodes" in my pre-Scn life), in relation to this incident they had been told by other members in the field; that I was involved in 'underworld' activities at a hotel I worked at in Melbourne; that I was into "coke orgies"; that I had three guys whacked (for a cheap rate because they were Morrocan) after one of the "orgies" didn't go the way I wanted it to; and that I did so because I was annoyed that the guys gave more attention to eachother than they gave to me - supposedly I retaliated because I could and because I had the contacts to do so.

Those who spoke to me about this gave slight variations of the "story", but in essence their version was the same, and although 'based' on something that did happen, it was a fabrication which painted me as the "criminal" as opposed to the "casualty" which I was, in regard to this episode.

Bizarre and 'off the wall' you'd think, even laughable, yet some dickheads have taken it on board and/or promoted it (to the likes of those I've spoken to). Maybe it fits nicely into the "Critics of Scientology" HCOPL, and helps prevent their delusionary world from being rocked - Convenient maybe to have an 'explanation' as to why someone like me would now be 'out' and opposing the CofS.

[Feral]

:grouch: Feral! Don't know that I wanted to go this far with this, but I'll post what went down, in a nutshell.

Over the last month, in regard to this episode, I've been queried by two people (who don't know eachother), as to whether I got some guys whacked after things turned sour between them and me. I've also been informed by another that they'd heard that I did. The people who I spoke to hadn't taken the data on board, but were perturbed by what they heard and the fact that some had taken it on board - hence their calls (and despite the fact that they are still "in" and are not supposed to talk to me).

Among other things (different "episodes" in my pre-Scn life), in relation to this incident they had been told by other members in the field; that I was involved in 'underworld' activities at a hotel I worked at in Melbourne; that I was into "coke orgies"; that I had three guys whacked (for a cheap rate because they were Morrocan) after one of the "orgies" didn't go the way I wanted it to; and that I did so because I was annoyed that the guys gave more attention to eachother than they gave to me - supposedly I retaliated because I could and because I had the contacts to do so.

Those who spoke to me about this gave slight variations of the "story", but in essence their version was the same, and although 'based' on something that did happen, it was a fabrication which painted me as the "criminal" as opposed to the "casualty" which I was, in regard to this episode.

Bizarre and 'off the wall' you'd think, even laughable, yet some dickheads have taken it on board and/or promoted it (to the likes of those I've spoken to). Maybe it fits nicely into the "Critics of Scientology" HCOPL, and helps prevent their delusionary world from being rocked - Convenient maybe to have an 'explanation' as to why someone like me would now be 'out' and opposing the CofS.

OMFG!. So this is OSAs use of your PC folder data??????

Anyone who knows you or who's ever met you would realize that's a lie that just won't wash.

You know the 'criminal mind' HCOB comes to my recall; "The criminal mind accuses others of what it is doing itself".

So what has OSA potentially got in the closet? That is, if you buy Hubbard's tech on this.:omg:

[Alanzo]

All right then.

This is a documented case of the Church of Scientology using confidential priest/penitent folder information, and twisting it outrageously, in order to defame an ex member of the Church of Scientology.

Should you trust the Church of Scientology with YOUR secret information and the most intimate details of your life?

Look what they do with it.

[Dulloldfart]

It might be useful to carefully question some of these people as to what *exactly* was said to them. There is a difference between the bare statement, "She had these people killed" and something like, "... and you know what, three months later someone had these people killed! She hasn't been officially charged yet." I know it was only one murder, but the principle still applies, of the listener supplying details that the teller deliberately implied but carefully didn't state. The intent would be the same, but the factor of plausible deniability has now been added. Of course, maybe they just did the simpler bare version.

Paul

[Carmel]

<snip>

You know the 'criminal mind' HCOB comes to my recall; "The criminal mind accuses others of what it is doing itself".

So what has OSA potentially got in the closet? That is, if you buy Hubbard's tech on this.:omg:

I think that it's the "critics of scn" pl that is in play here. A lot of Scios believe what's written in that policy letter, to the point where they are just about looking for crimes of those who become 'critics', and OSA are good at "helping out", by making up those crimes up when there aren't any to be found.

[Alanzo]

It might be useful to carefully question some of these people as to what *exactly* was said to them. There is a difference between the bare statement, "She had these people killed" and something like, "... and you know what, three months later someone had these people killed! She hasn't been officially charged yet." I know it was only one murder, but the principle still applies, of the listener supplying details that the teller deliberately implied but carefully didn't state. The intent would be the same, but the factor of plausible deniability has now been added. Of course, maybe they just did the simpler bare version.

Paul

This is still PC folder data being used against people who speak out against the Church.

The public needs to know that the Church of Scientology betrays the priest/penitent privilege - solely for their own selfish reasons. Not to stop a crime, or to protect the public, but to attempt to silence people who know the Church's crimes in order to keep them quiet.

How many other people has the Church of Scientology blackmailed in this way?

The public needs to be warned against the church of Scientology.

[Kookaburra]

:grouch: Feral! Don't know that I wanted to go this far with this, but I'll post what went down, in a nutshell.

Over the last month, in regard to this episode, I've been queried by two people (who don't know eachother), as to whether I got some guys whacked after things turned sour between them and me. I've also been informed by another that they'd heard that I did. The people who I spoke to hadn't taken the data on board, but were perturbed by what they heard and the fact that some had taken it on board - hence their calls (and despite the fact that they are still "in" and are not supposed to talk to me).

Among other things (different "episodes" in my pre-Scn life), in relation to this incident they had been told by other members in the field; that I was involved in 'underworld' activities at a hotel I worked at in Melbourne; that I was into "coke orgies"; that I had three guys whacked (for a cheap rate because they were Morrocan) after one of the "orgies" didn't go the way I wanted it to; and that I did so because I was annoyed that the guys gave more attention to eachother than they gave to me - supposedly I retaliated because I could and because I had the contacts to do so.

Those who spoke to me about this gave slight variations of the "story", but in essence their version was the same, and although 'based' on something that did happen, it was a fabrication which painted me as the "criminal" as opposed to the "casualty" which I was, in regard to this episode.

Bizarre and 'off the wall' you'd think, even laughable, yet some dickheads have taken it on board and/or promoted it (to the likes of those I've spoken to). Maybe it fits nicely into the "Critics of Scientology" HCOPL, and helps prevent their delusionary world from being rocked - Convenient maybe to have an 'explanation' as to why someone like me would now be 'out' and opposing the CofS.

I had a feeling it was something like this. Surely something this outrageous will wake a few more people up. That delusionary world is teetering more and more precariously all the time.

Actually, this story makes me angry. :angry: This will backfire on OSA. They have really gone too far this time. This is lawsuit material. It is also conspiracy to frame someone for a crime they didn't commit. Does anyone know the charges that apply under Australian law? This could well be the straw that brings their whole sordid little scam crashing down permanently.

Yeah, OSA, you'd better be worried. This one isn't going to go away, and it's not going to go your way. You've sold your soul to the devil and he's going to collect what's due.

Carmel, stay strong. You did the smart thing. Keep the light of truth shining directly on this, and the SP's will shrivel and die.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

...
Actually, this story makes me angry. :angry: This will backfire on OSA. They have really gone too far this time. This is lawsuit material. It is also conspiracy to frame someone for a crime they didn't commit. Does anyone know the charges that apply under Australian law? This could well be the straw that brings their whole sordid little scam crashing down permanently.

Yeah, OSA, you'd better be worried. This one isn't going to go away, and it's not going to go your way. You've sold your soul to the devil and he's going to collect what's due.
...

If the material originated from a file held in Melbourne the defamation laws are very torturous indeed.

If the material originated from a file held in Sydney, then under NSW law "truth" is no defence.

Sadly, knowing OSA's little tricks, there won't be a trail that leads back to the smoking gun.

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I'll just quote Megalomanic here:
If any witnesses are reading this, please do the right thing.And in particular witnesses to the fabricated rumour! - This should really enrage even an active scientologist! - Confidentiality of PC folders are being abused! - Evil lies are being willfully spread within the scientology community by church management and Office of Special Affairs!

Both counts are serious crimes/offences in both the Church's and the civil justice systems!

So.. If you are a scientologist.. When is it just farkin' enough already!?

Do the right thing.. Let's get this sorted out NOW! - Get in touch with Carmel.. Then the police!

My guess is that some certain missionaires from Flag wil run back so fast that you can't see their arses for a helluva lot of footsoles!

We'll get 'em yet... There's police in the US too!

:yes:

[Feral]

I think that it's the "critics of scn" pl that is in play here. A lot of Scios believe what's written in that policy letter, to the point where they are just about looking for crimes of those who become 'critics', and OSA are good at "helping out", by making up those crimes up when there aren't any to be found.

Carmy,

The critics of Scientology ref. necessitates finding an actual crime.

When they enter the realm of inventing the crime they are unwittingly applying the 'Criminal Mind' HCOB.

[Carmel]

Carmy,

The critics of Scientology ref. necessitates finding an actual crime.

Ah, yeah...er.....I think it does. It's been a long time since I've read it, and had forgotten that bit! :eyeroll: Thinking about it, it all makes a bit more sense now - not their behaviour, but how they justify it. They probably believe that we all do have heinious "crimes". :duh:


When they enter the realm of inventing the crime they are unwittingly applying the 'Criminal Mind' HCOB.


Yeah, or at least the "Criminal Mind" HCOB applies to them.

[alex]

Carmy,

The critics of Scientology ref. necessitates finding an actual crime.

When they enter the realm of inventing the crime they are unwittingly applying the 'Criminal Mind' HCOB.

Can I make a joke here....?

Sounds like you are using scientology to oppose scientology. (what pl was that from....)
:ohmy: :coolwink:

[cantsay]

You know, even when I was so "in" that I would have defended Scientology to the death, I find it really really hard to think that I would have believed such a rediculously proposterous story like the one they are trying to spread about you Carmel. Its just so unbelievably "out there"! Particularly if they are trying to tell it to public - at least they have one foot out in the real world, and might be able to smell crap when it is put under their nose, unlike some long-tme staffers.

The fact that people are getting in contact with you is FANTASTIC! That is a BIG DEAL! For every single person that calls you, there are 10 more people talking about your version, and comparing stories, and YOUR version is spreading. Keep it up hun, you are making a bucktload more sense than some rediculous James Bond-assassination-coke-orgie-shoot-em-up-bullcrap.

[Feral]

-snip-

Yeah, or at least the "Criminal Mind" HCOB applies to them.

Sorry...that's what I meant.

[Alanzo]

Here's an interesting legal and moral question:

What do you do with an organization which practices confessional procedures on its members, and then takes the information from those confessionals and alters it to make it more useful to discredit the member if they should ever leave and speak out against the organization?

I would think that offering a confessional service, and receiving money or free work for that service, would automatically make that organization responsible for keeping their end of the priest/penitent bargain.

If the penitent reveals the crimes and abuses of the organization after leaving it, does that relieve the responsibility of the organization to keep the penitent's confessional information confidential?

Does the organization then have the right to change that information revealed during confessional, to make that information defamatory, and then allow them to spread that false and defamatory information around to its existing membership in order to discredit the now vocal ex-member?

Obviously, the Church of Scientology thinks so.

I wonder what Australian courts would say?

Would they continue to allow the Church of Scientology to operate confessionals on people, or to take them into sessions where confidential information might be imparted to them, if the Church of Scientology demonstrates its complete inability to be trusted with people's confidential information?

I would hope not.

I would hope that, once an organization has proven itself incapable of being trusted with confidential information, that they would be banned from delivering confessionals, and all other sessions where confidential information could be imparted to them.

My hope is that what is being reported in this thread, and all other incidents like it, be brought into a court of law where real justice can finally be served on the Church of Scientology.

[Carmel]

Here's an interesting legal and moral question:

What do you do with an organization which practices confessional procedures on its members, and then takes the information from those confessionals and alters it to make it more useful to discredit the member if they should ever leave and speak out against the organization?

I would think that offering a confessional service, and receiving money or free work for that service, would automatically make that organization responsible for keeping their end of the priest/penitent bargain.

If the penitent reveals the crimes and abuses of the organization after leaving it, does that relieve the responsibility of the organization to keep the penitent's confessional information confidential?

Does the organization then have the right to change that information revealed during confessional, to make that information defamatory, and then allow them to spread that false and defamatory information around to its existing membership in order to discredit the now vocal ex-member?

Obviously, the Church of Scientology thinks so.

I wonder what Australian courts would say?

Would they continue to allow the Church of Scientology to operate confessionals on people, or to take them into sessions where confidential information might be imparted to them, if the Church of Scientology demonstrates its complete inability to be trusted with people's confidential information?

I would hope not.

I would hope that, once an organization has proven itself incapable of being trusted with confidential information, that they would be banned from delivering confessionals, and all other sessions where confidential information could be imparted to them.

My hope is that what is being reported in this thread, and all other incidents like it, be brought into a court of law where real justice can finally be served on the Church of Scientology.

It's our hope too, Alanzo. I think it is only a matter of time now - Yes, things need to occur for justice to be done, but there are several parties willing to work on getting that justice done.

Meanwhile, I have mentioned instances of where this has occurred, in my letter to Senator Nick Xenophon who is currently looking at investigating Scn in this country.

[Kookaburra]

Can I make a joke here....?

Sounds like you are using scientology to oppose scientology. (what pl was that from....)
:ohmy: :coolwink:

It's not a joke. It's like using bible quotes to back your position when arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. Works a treat. They have no choice but to listen.


It's our hope too, Alanzo. I think it is only a matter of time now - Yes, things need to occur for justice to be done, but there are several parties willing to work on getting that justice done.

Meanwhile, I have mentioned instances of where this has occurred, in my letter to Senator Nick Xenophon who is now looking at investigating Scn in this country.

Go Carmel! :clap: :thumbsup: :cheerleader:

Something like this, combined with the money-laundering in SA may well get the nasty little cult banned in Australia. Then the rest of the world has a precedent. :D

[supafreak]

I have mentioned instances of where this has occurred, in my letter to Senator Nick Xenophon who is currently looking at investigating Scn in this country.

Fantastic! :happydance: Let us know what he says.

[alex]

It's not a joke. It's like using bible quotes to back your position when arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. Works a treat. They have no choice but to listen.



snip

Except in scientology, per policy, it is not allowed.

[Alanzo]

It's our hope too, Alanzo. I think it is only a matter of time now - Yes, things need to occur for justice to be done, but there are several parties willing to work on getting that justice done.

Meanwhile, I have mentioned instances of where this has occurred, in my letter to Senator Nick Xenophon who is currently looking at investigating Scn in this country.

Excellent, Carmel!

The Church of Scientology has now proven that they can not be trusted to sell auditing services.

They are done.

[Kookaburra]

Except in scientology, per policy, it is not allowed.

I don't recall ever seeing a policy that says you can't quote (and show) a source reference.

Mind you, it does sound a bit DMish.......:whistling:

[alex]

I don't recall ever seeing a policy that says you can't quote (and show) a source reference.

Mind you, it does sound a bit DMish.......:whistling:

1998 edition of "Introduction to Scientology Ethics" Crimes:

"Using policy to create problems"

High Crimes:

"Pronouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of standard Scientology" is used too...although in a mind fuck way.

along with:

"Seeking to splinter off an area of Scientology and deny it properly consituted authority for personal profit, personal power or "to save the organization from the higher officers of Scientology.""

love that one.

It all boils down to people doing the right thing. Policy is junior to that in all but the criminal minds.

[mate]

Hi Carmel. Within the last twelve months, there was another example of OSA accessing PC folders and changing the information in an attempt to intimidate an ex-scientologist. In this case, it was a NZer we know as "Once Bitten". The PC folder of her PC was accessed and information given to her by OSA executive Mike Ferriss, at a anonymous demonstration, where she was demonstrating. The information was that this PC had committed suicide after being audited by her. In fact, this PC committed suicide some ten years and much auditing, after she had audited him. This evil practice needs to be stamped out real hard.

Regards, David.

[MAX YOUR CREDIT]

[QUOTE=Carmel;141491]


:clap: Carmel... I just came around to reading your story. I went through a similar situation but not as stressful as yours. But, stressful enough to get me sick and develop a medical condition. I had little tolerance of dealing with interviews, "INAY" and the controlling of my life and mental state, but only for a few months. And one day I decided, I am just going to blow! I knew that they did not own me nor own my soul. I could just walk out when I wanted to. And I did! It blows my mind to see that I am not the only one who's gone through insane allegations.

The saddest part for me now is to see my "so call friends" continue to suffer and put up with the insanity. Gosh.... I always thought that Scn was about expressing love, compassion and generosity, but it doesn't even come close to that. It is such the opposite.

Blessings to you and your family.

[Royal Prince Xenu]

"INAY"? I need a yawn?

[scooter]

"INAY"? I need a yawn?

"I'm not auditing you."

Used especially for interviews and confessionals when the data gotten from the person is then used for "ethics purposes."

[Panda Termint]

Yes, the INAY disclaimer gives a sort of lip-service to the idea that data disclosed in your "I'm auditing you" sessions won't be used against you at a later time.
We now know better!

[Carmel]

Yeah, the "INAY" did mean that what came up in session could be actionable in ethics, but it was still supposed to be "confidential" and still under the priest penitent privileged trusted agreement. The difference with INAY sessions was that one could be sent to ethics for something that came up, and being sent to ethics was supposed to be for the benefit of the pc (or at least that is what the advice was on it).

Per the Church, this priest penitent thing cut both ways - Whether in session or an INAY session, the auditor, the C/S, and/or "church" staff couldn't be forced to divulge confidential information, but nor were they "permitted" to divulge it to others.

For the record, my 'pc' info that has been divulged to others (in it's twisted form), came up in auditing (like HRD) - It didn't come from info I gave in an auditing confessional, nor an INAY sec check.

The info from my episode in Melbourne in '78 (which was twisted to make me out as a crim), could have only been obtained from records of an auditing session. There's other pc folder info though, which wasn't just simply used to smear my reputation. It was data originally from my pc folder, which was brought up in an INAY interrogation type interview as an 'aid' in showing me what a 'schmuck' I was. In recent times that information has also been used to discredit me, and maybe also as a means to intimidate me into silence.

A bit of history - At the end of '78, my partner had broken off our relationship. I was a mess. I left PNG, went back to NZ for a few weeks, and decided to go to Western Australia hoping for a new start. I actually wanted to just go to bed and stay there, and never get up, because there seemed nothing to get up for anymore, but I didn't allow myself to do that - I kind of forced myself to move on, as ya do.

I went to Perth (in WA), with the intent of picking myself up. It didn't go so well. I got pub work, and art modelling work, and I was living with a bunch of Sannyasins (Orange people - followers of “the Bhagwan” - Shree Rajneesh). Their philosophy was pretty wild - In a nutshell, it was "if ya feel like it, do it and/or experience it". In a pretty short space of time, they were putting pressure on me to take Sannyass (like join them/commit). I didn't and wouldn't, but I went to one of their "encounter group weekends". It was a disaster. I was objecting to something they were putting a girl through, and next thing they were trying to put me through it too. I let loose and I ended up being ostracised by the entire group and my housemates, and by the time I got home all my gear had been thrown in the front yard - They'd kicked me out of the house.

I went into a whole new slump over this. I really didn't care whether I lived or died at that point. Since a very young age (and while I was still at school), I was part of the "alternative scene" and street drugs were the norm. I hated needles and knew heroin was addictive, so I had previously steered clear of it. To cut a long story short, after this episode, I moved into a house with users, and I ended up getting hooked on smack before I knew it. :duh:

I had to ‘support’ my habit. I was making good money as a barmaid and an art model, but it wasn't enough. I had a friend who was an 'escort girl' - Generally, you'd go out to dinner with businessmen from out of town, for a fee that the agency would give you some of, then you were free to do 'whatever' for a fee you could pocket yourself. You could also choose to decline on going further if you so wished.

My friend had told her boss at the agency about me, and one afternoon, she rang asking if I could work. I wasn't a looker, but I could mock myself up, and I had the gift of the gab. I was scared shitless, but I needed the dosh, and my friend said that I didn't have to go to bed with the guy if I didn't want to.

I ended up with a few regular clients from interstate, who would be in town once or twice a fortnight. Putting the "sex" aside, I enjoyed their company, and they enjoyed mine. Three of them became pretty good friends, and one of them flew me to Melbourne for a week to accompany him there while he was there on business. One of them, I still have the odd contact with, to this day. I'm not saying it was all good by any means, but nor was it the worst thing in the world. As I look at it today, I am actually more ashamed of supporting the CofS and paying US$20,000 to the IAS, than I am of being a 'prostitute' at that time.

Besides that, I didn't stay in that scene long. With the help of a couple of Tibetan Buddhists who took me down to Margaret River and got me through withdrawals, and then six months later moving to Sydney and joining staff, I never went back there. I WAS in the pits, but I had stepped up, and gotten out of them. If anything, I was proud and happy about where I was now, compared to where I was before. I wasn't carrying much "shame blame and regret", because I considered that now I had a life, was going forward, was helping myself and helping others. I also considered that the only person I had hurt was myself, but now that I wasn't hurting, that whole scene was the past, and was dead and gone.

It wasn't such a biggie, but there were some things about it that were addressed in auditing. It came up in the HRD, and some stuff that I wasn’t particularly aware of came to view and was dealt with. This chapter of my life didn’t come up in auditing after that. It never came up in my confessionals, nor my INAY sec checks. If I'd had a "1st dynamic" confessional, it probably would have, but I never had one of them.

It never came up again until my second "INAY interview" that I described in post #16 on this thread. After me not "submitting" in the first "interview" they clearly wanted to find something which I would submit to, and they did by going through my pc folder. The one thing that could have been found to plough me in, they found and used to do so, and then tried to use as a subject of present time "out-ethics" nearly 20 years after the fact.

I had had intensives of sec checks and months of ethics handlings (just prior to these ‘interviews’), but these actions hadn't 'exposed my crimes', which the RTC MAA (Ty Webb) had decided I had. I had heard the RTC MAA rip sh't out of Shane my "sec checker come interrogator" the night before, for not getting my crimes. He said stuff like "That CI defiant piece of crap in there needs to confront her crimes, and if you weren't such a CI piece of crap you would be getting her to do that”. It's like they just had to find something on me, then rub my face in it so I could see how bad I was.

I look at it today, and think how bloody bizarre. I didn't really think that when I wrote up and posted what occurred, back in September last year. Back then I was still sort of feeling like I had half pie deserved it - My head wasn't saying that, but back then my heart still was. Feral had asked me why I didn't go into detail in that post I wrote about that interview. Well, at the time I wrote it, I couldn't. I was still feeling very degraded about the whole scene and that chapter in my life, and to a large degree I was still 'stuck in' the mindset about it, which I had 'taken on' as a result of that interview and as a result of everything else that had occurred at the time.

That second interview went on for hours. At that point in my life (at 38 years old), there was probably only this one area that anybody could have picked out and used that would have made me feel degraded, because it was something in my life which I was ashamed of (and something which I still am ashamed of to some degree). They found it, and put my face into it, for hours. If Shane hadn’t been an old “trusted” friend, then I may not have put myself in his hands like I did, and gone so effect of it all like I did, but whichever way ya look at it, it was introverting stuff. Whether one has a belief in the auditing tech or not, how on earth could such an action be of benefit to anyone? It couldn't be - It was done in an effort to squash, and it did just that.

Shane was asking for every little itty bitty explicit detail of the sexual encounters I had with my 'clients'. As I had said when I first described it, the RTC MAA, his Mission I/C and Vicki Hannah the CO OSA were watching on. The RTC MAA sometimes got Shane to go back to something we had left, for even more detail.

Shane wasn't just asking and acknowledging. He was commenting with disgust at first, then with what seemed like disdain at what I was "coughing up". It was kind of like "No wonder you are such a fucked unit, and no wonder we have had so much trouble with you". He made comments like "oh God", "yuck", "how could you?", "I'm not surprised that you have been "no case gain", "You've been living a lie, Carmel". "You've done a good job of sucking us all in, Carmel. I wish I had your PR skills". And, after everything seemed exhausted, he aked me questions like "And you thought you were fit to be a mother?", "How long did you think you would last without facing up to this and making up the damage?", "Isn't it about time you came clean in regard to who you actually are?", Isn't it about time that you actually came clean with yourself in regard to who you really are?"

That interview really got to me, and the effect of it (compounded with being ostricised from the group after that) stayed with me for many years, until very recently actually. When I listened to my head, I knew that all that stuff was crap. I'd tell myself "Well, what am I supposed to do, how can I take it back?", and stuff like "To put me 'back there' could serve no purpose but to cave me in and make me submit". But then in my heart I still felt things like "How could I have stooped so low?", "What is innately wrong with me?", "Do I have the right to pretend I am someone who I am not?".

This whole area was fucking with my head for the ten years after those interviews (when I went off lines and when I wouldn’t let myself look at it), and it was still to some degree after I posted about it. That second interview especially, was just mean! I see that clearly now, and more clearly than what I have done this past year - It’s like now I don't just know it in an analytical sense, but I also 'feel' it in the heart sense. It's taken me this long to get to this point.

In recent months, the CofS (with their smear campaigning) have helped me in this regard. Hearing about and being queried about my time as a "smacked out hooker", was "stinging" (people have been briefed on 'who' I am and what I am 'really' am - not!). This action of theirs, has helped me see things more clearly (as opposed to just knowing the theory of it), in relation to that chapter in my past as well as in relation to the tactics used by the CofS in an effort to dominate and/or intimidate me.

Looking at it today, they got me with it eleven years ago, and it contributed to ‘putting me under’. Six months ago they tried to get me with it again by spreading it around. Clearly though, they can't get me with it now. I no longer feel like a piece of shit about it all – If I did, I couldn’t be posting about it like I am today. It's not great, I‘m not proud of it, I haven't liked it being spread around and admittedly it's pissed me off, but it's no longer introverting me and if anything (as usual) it has given me even more motivation to get the truth out about the CofS.

Having the emotional freedom now and a recently restored ‘self esteem’, has allowed me to divulge what really went down in that second interview, and give a better picture of how malicious their intent was and how insidious their actions were. It feels good to tell it how it was, and from an objective perspective where I can now see what actually was and is, as opposed to a subjective one (when I first posted about it) where I was still buying into what they wanted me to believe about myself.

[Panda Termint]

Well done on completing this write-up, Carmel. You're a brave girl and we love you for it.

The treatment you received in this episode is the most odious example of reverse auditing I've ever heard of. Shane will one day hang his head in shame over this disgusting misuse of the tech.

The behaviour of that particularly demented RTC MAA is a perfect example of what Miscavige and his ilk would have liked us all to become, well maybe not ALL of us, there would have to be somebody left for them to humiliate and degrade in order to satisfy their own sadistic control-mania.

[sallydannce]

Bless you Carmel. With everything I've got I am pouring out love for you.

You are a magnificent woman!

I am so glad I have left this cruel group which calls itself a "church" and claims to be about friendliness and hope. How could I live with myself knowing crap like this was going on...I could not.

The way the "church" of scientology treats people is utterly appalling!!!!!

Carmel, you stand in the sunshine! So damn beautifully!
:rose: :rose:

[Vinaire]

Carmel, I love you.

:)

[Good twin]

http://www.truveo.com/virginia-slims-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/id/3877433902

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Carmel, I love you.

:)

Not as much as I love carmy, Vin! :p

Hi Carmel, Darlin! :hattip: :biglove: :whistling:

EP

[Div6]

Thank you for telling your truth. That really is all that should be expected.

They are "using: Scn suppressively. This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say "the S.O. is a suppressive group." I ran across this LRH definition of "Musical Chairs" the other day.
"Musical Chairs - 6. musical chairs in life is the mechanism below ARC breaks in Grade III! To unstabilise gives ARC breaks! Whole staff can be put into a
sad effect! This is the mechanism governments use. It's the basic tool of the socialist. If he can just unstabilise everyone he can
kill them with degrade. It's a basic tool of the insane to maintain their own stability by unstabilising everyone else."

You must be one pretty big person for them to spend so much effort in introverting you.

When I hear things like this, I just want to go into Shaman mode and recover every lost fragment of your soul from this holding cell called the Physical Universe to the point where your love and power is so overwhelmingly present that those that tried to hurt cower in shame and spend their eternities trying to hide from the hideous thing they have allowed themselves to become.

Peace out.