People from London/UK/elsewhere

[Steven James]

I have been past London Org three times recently, twice the testing centre and once the building in Queen Victoria Street. I recognised a former co-audit twin, staff member, dismissed staff member, Org PC and now it seems re-instated staff member doing stress tests outside London Test Cen.... er I mean the 'Dianetics & Scientology Life Improvement Centre' in Tottenham Court Road. (Contradiction in terms?)

I personally felt that I got on well with my fellow staff members and public. Particularly the public. I used to enjoy studying on London Day. That course room was full of musicians and artists (guitarist, percussionist, singer, bass player, pianist, celloist, trained actor).

I was the 'HDF Dir' London Foundation, gave all the Book 1 and helped in the basic courserooms, sometimes in the Academy too. Most people will know who I am. Are you still reading all the stuff on the internet? If you are, feel free to say hello!

I can be dsicreet should you not want the Church to know.

[Mary]

I'd love to contact anyone that was around London during the 80s and at St Hill, UK during 80s to 2000s.

Hello Steven James! I don't think I know you but it's wonderful to hear news about anyone from dear old blighty!

[Dulloldfart]

I'd love to contact anyone that was around London during the 80s and at St Hill, UK during 80s to 2000s.



I was SO at SH from 1972 to just after LRH snuffed it in 1986.

Paul

[Dulloldfart]

I'd love to contact anyone that was around London during the 80s and at St Hill, UK during 80s to 2000s.



I was SO at SH from 1972 to just after LRH snuffed it in 1986.

Paul

[Mary]

Hello Paul,

Very pleased to meet you. I don't think we've ever met, but we very likely have friends in common.

So many good people I remember from those days seem to have disappeared and I never knew what happened to them.

I've lived in the US now for the last five years. Although I go home for visits, I still feel a bit homesick - oh, how I miss the wonderful English weather, all that lovely rain and grey skies, umm ... drizzle ... how I miss it! In California I wake up every morning to same old boring weather: Sunny and warm, sunny and warm and oh, its sunny and warm again! You can't get real sausages or proper bacon and no decent patries or pork pies with brown sauce.

Mary.

[Dulloldfart]

Hello Paul,
I've lived in the US now for the last five years. Although I go home for visits, I still feel a bit homesick - oh, how I miss the wonderful English weather, all that lovely rain and grey skies, umm ... drizzle ... how I miss it! In California I wake up every morning to same old boring weather: Sunny and warm, sunny and warm and oh, its sunny and warm again!


Hi Mary,

I lived in LA for about twenty years, so that line doesn't work with me too well. :)

I agree the weather in So Cal is better, as long as you have an effective way of pre-treating (at home, anyway) the brown sludge you breathe 24/7. But I prefer the gentler life-style here in the UK.

Paul

[Mick Wenlock]

I'd love to contact anyone that was around London during the 80s and at St Hill, UK during 80s to 2000s.

Hello Steven James! I don't think I know you but it's wonderful to hear news about anyone from dear old blighty!

I got into Scn in HAPI in 76 and joined the SO at FOLO UK in 76.

I was last at London and SH during 1987 when I was the IAS UK Tour person.

WE probably do have some mutual acquaintances. Like yourself I now live in the US - and have done for the last 17 years. I live out on the high plains east of Denver, Colorado.

[Mary]

It's amazing that so many scientologists move to the US - the brain drain!

It was about 1981 in London that I was friends with Joanne Dancer and Bob Ainsworth (I think was his name). I was fairly new in scientology and I had great respect for these people.

One day Joanne called me to say that she believed that something was terribly wrong with LRH, that his comm lines were being manipulated and that HCOBs and PLs were being issued by others and that the Church had become corrupted.

I was astonished and told her that I would look into it. Very naively, I immediately went to the HCO, told them what I had heard and asked questions.

The resulting sec checks on me were quite lengthy. I learned not to ask silly questions after that.

I never saw or heard from Joanne and Bob again.

Mary.

[Dulloldfart]

I never saw or heard from Joanne and Bob again.

Mary.

Bob ended up auditing NOTs at Saint Hill for a year or so in the early 80s, then ran off with Julie Price, a NOTs auditor and still married to non-SO Rufus Price, if I remember correctly.

Paul

[lionheart]

Bob Ainsworth is living in the south west of England. I'm still in touch with him and see him every now and then.

Last time I saw Joanne was when they were still together and working for the ACC in Scotland. But they split up.

[Alanzo]

I'd like to come to England and roam the countryside, dispensing wisdom in pubs and on street corners.

I'll bet I could gather quite a following there.

The English naturally look up to and adore Americans, from what I've gathered.

Maybe I can teach them to fish.

[Zinjifar]

Just seemed strange, this thread doesn't seem to be updating, so, this is a test

Zinj

[Tanstaafl]

The English naturally look up to and adore Americans, from what I've gathered.


Thanks, Alanzo. That's the biggest laugh I've had in weeks! :D :D :D

Good to know that our American cousins have developed a sense of that very English phenomenon - irony. :)

[Alanzo]

Thanks, Alanzo. That's the biggest laugh I've had in weeks! :D :D :D

Good to know that our American cousins have developed a sense of that very English phenomenon - irony. :)

I was on a Kibbutz in Israel that was filled with English, Scottish, and Irish volunteers.

Very tough crowd. Almost impossible to get a laugh as an American.

Usually they would just roll their eyes with everything I said, turn up their noses and whisper their dry, condescending jokes about me to each other.

So I put my training in cultural anthropology to good use. I learned their crude, tribal ways. Their odd lingo. Their perversions. Their mortal fear of the letter "R".

Then, finally, I learned irony.

I was knockin' em dead every night on the Kibbutz after that.

[Tanstaafl]

Nice one, Alanzo!

[blondy]

I was SO at SH from 1972 to just after LRH snuffed it in 1986.

Paul
I was at St Hill for 8 months in 1976 from Australia. There were a few Ozzies there at that time.
I remember a few staff names, Bob Bolger, and Isla who used to be the runner from AO up to the C/S.
Pauline Chapman was the reg.
Some other students were Marianne Seitz and her brother Hubert Heller, Zoran Janic surname might be spelt wrong, I shared a house with his wife can't remeber her name but she was a lovely being, Jim Doone, Bryan Painter, from Melbourne The memory is definitely rusty here.
If I read other names it will come back to me.

[johnAnchovie]

Hello Mary, I posted this on XSO a few days ago, since I saw your request, could not resist reposting here, I hope that brings back a few memories.

"Most readers would agree that the SO life style would be seen as something of an aberration when viewed against what constitutes a normalcy index for human life quality in the developed world. We tended to live under considerable economic depravity, extreme stress and were in the main cut off from friends and family. Yet it cannot be denied that it was an intense experience, probably because it departed so much from the norm. It was an experience that cannot be understood except by those who have actually lived it, this can and does create difficulty when attempting to provide a descriptive to the uninitiated.
Since I am heading back to University this Autumn, and will be majoring in History and Philosophy, I could not help but be challenged to attempt to clarify the historical record and recapitulate on the main characters and bring them forward from the 1980s to May 2006, just before I made my rather dramatic exit... I hope that this chronoscope will be of interest; here goes.
Cast of characters and brief history:
Craig Mathieson – former CO Tours
Criag, the charismatic ex 70’s prog rock musician, was the epitome of cool back then. He had cars, a swanky office and would not accept the degraded conditions the majority of Sea Org members lived in at that that time. He felt – correctly - that he could do little to effect material improvement for the rest of the UK SO base, so he regged like mad and built a fairly ‘yuppie’ life style for himself, the wife Karen and his lovely children, all this against the backdrop of dark mutterings of jealousy from senior execs at FLO and staff on the UK base. His position was pretty much protected in that he was the ‘golden boy’ and provided something like 90 percent of the income for the UK operation both at Saint Hill and in the struggling Class V orgs network. He was briefly posted as CO CLO. Busted, became D/CO AOSH, had a torrid affair with Lena, and was RPFed. He completed OT V and graduated around 2004. Last time I saw him he had married the very attractive 22 year old LRH Pers sec, and was now D/CO Sales in AOSH.
Ken Warren: - former DCOI CLO
The bearded wild man, I really liked Ken, he was full of energy and tried to deal with things in a light hearted and humorous manner. He was RPFed by Jan Jansen I think in 1993, graduated and became an exec in AOSH. He did OT III around 1995 or ‘96 and routed out shortly thereafter. He now lives in Australia and was working for Craig Jensens Executive Software, establishing the antipodeans version of the brand.
Lyndall Warren – UK Programs Dir
Ken’s wife, the mousy Australian, she was always freezing cold in the UK, poor dear, was in programs bureau for years. At the launch of New Era of Management, she was sent to the FLO, where she was trained up as CO FOLO, and came back with a nice hair cut, failed miserably and was put on the decks – washing up in the galley. Lyndall was a very sweet and gentle lady, I don’t know how she took the amount of sh** that she did, and deep down, even as an SO member, I was very happy that she and Ken left for a better life in Australia.
Roger Kaye – Mission Holder Brighton, and later Bournemouth
Good old Roger. Mission holder and div 6er extraordinary. A complete maniac, but boy, could he make money. He built a house of cards in Brighton that produced lots of Div 6 raw meat, good dosh and loads bods to SH. He opened the Mission of Bournemouth, turned over Brighton to Steve Webster while CLO, under Steve Lake, stat pushed the place into a class V org. Steve Webster and his team could not maintain what was essentially a sham, complaide loudly and bitterly and he promptly got declared. The Brighton org struggles on, often not paying its rent, propped up by various garrison EDs and teams of SO rejects – Sea Org couples who ran out money to buy contraceptives, the resultant pregnancy forcing their excommunication from SO activity, banished to the horrors of the Class V Orgs... Roger was not declared, he knew too much, he was kept on a tight rein by OSA, constantly making amends of one kind or another as a public, he is still doing this, and attempting to get various ventures started. Still married to lovely and long suffering Andrea Webber, he works in advertising, selling space in magazines. He lives in Poole, Dorset.
David Beal – Registrar
This fellow was a dodgy salesman if I ever met one, made hundreds of thousands on illegal debiting of stagnant money in parishioners accounts. He was a full SO member, and D/CO Tours under Craig M. He bought a house in EG with his ill gotten gains, lots of nice leather jackets, and moved out with his wife and Kids from the Stonelands slum and resided there, quite nicely, thank you very much, until he got found out and declared SP. The family left EG and last I heard, David was a financial advisor in Hartfordshire.
Cherle Laws – CO SMI
I love this lady. Once a South African beauty, she married Gerald in the Seventies, moved to England and the two joined the SO. Cherle was CO SMI in 1995 when the various – quite incredible - scams going on in Bournemouth finally blew up in a splew of litigation that nearly brought the UK Church down. Cherle was busted to Base crew – Estates Org for you oldies – and became the Medical Liaison Officer for the base really. She nursed Darlean through her last agonising days prior to succumbing to cancer, she did the same for good old Dick Garlick and Pam Malinson (sent back from IASA to UK to die). A lot of her time is devoted to looking after the very old UK SO crew (John Harvey, John Cox, Thelma Cusworth et al. She is the Florence Nightingale to all the stressed out CMO and CLO execs, who collapse every now and again with a bewildering array of complaints due in part to lack of sleep and adequate nutrition. Last I knew Cherle was still fulfilling this function at Walsh Manor in Crowborough.
Gerald Laws – sometimes CO SMI, and about half of his now thirty year career on the RPF in various parts of the globe
He was on the RPF in US and UK from around 1993 to 1999 when he graduated and became my junior. I was CO SMI at this time. I sent Gerald off to India to open up some field work there. This was Geralds’ cup of tea; he loved the place and hated being imprisoned on base as an administrative corporate drone. He did well there, but upset people at Int. I walked off post following my stint in Bournemouth – I saw what SCN Corporate were really up to, it shattered my illusions - in 2001, and Gerald took over, he was back on the RPF within three weeks or so, currently serving out his term – ironically – in Australia. (Remember the old UK Birthday Game joke? Australia is England’s RPF: - )
Andrea Lloyd Davis – nee Catt
With Roger, she kicked off the idea of blank loan application forms for Div 6ers in Bournemouth. They would ‘gang reg’ a new prospect for hours or days, till he succumbed and signed a blank loan form, this would be filled out to request let us say 20 grand, and tended to go through pretty easily, lots of easy credit in the early 1990s. Bournemouth was raking in around 90K a week from this gig, and it looked great, till people began suing. Andrea finally got busted in 1995. The then CO CLO Ron Norton, sent Bruce Perry and Bart Van Locke down there to make enough money to buy off the most aggressive of the suits, (settling out of court) these boys were tough, dedicated, FLO trained Ethics and Image Officers, with Midshipman rank to boot, and they made complete balls of the scene, Andrea blew, took a lawyer, and joined the suing party. She was declared and by the time I became CO SMI UK, was the biggest danger to the nice cosy image Scientology was attempting to build for its self in the UK. I had to go on a full garrison to Bournemouth and worked with the lovely Debbie Corney and Stephanie to make the required six hundred thousand needed to buy her silence, we did it, and she shut up and went away. Shattered all my altruistic delusions about Corporate Scientology to boot, sowing the seeds that led to my exit some five years later.
Steve and Maria Lake – CLO staff
Steve the handsome Adonis, Maria his gorgeous doe-eyed wife. Steve was off loaded from the RPF by a CMOI mission in the late 1990’s. He divorced Maria, and married a very sexy public Scientology lady, daughter of a declared former Class VIII CS, and thus never qualled for the SO. He was running Executive Software UK from East Grinstead last I knew. Maria moved to LA and remarried, she was on lines at AOLA per my last information.
Tony Phipps
A former and very talented student at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London, got into Scientology in Tottenham Court Road around 1974. Joined the SO and worked in and around Saint Hill for years. Was CO SHF in the mid and late eighties, moved to finance following a stint on the RPF, and worked with me on the International Computerisation project in the US during 1993 to 1996. He became Finance Inspector UK in ’97 and was still doing so when I left. He goes into severe doubt every once in a while, and was Comm- Eved for reading Jon Attacks ‘A Piece of Blue Sky’ in 2005, - I recommend this book by the way. – I think he is still in finance in some capacity at Saint Hill.
Lena – surname not give here due to potential legal repercussions –
A stunning, horny and restless rich bitch, daughter of some kind of Lebanese sheik. Back in 1987 she drove a hot Porsche, was madly in love with Craig, and used to shower him with gifts. After their immoral liaisons came to light, she went off to Flag, married a trans-Atlantic race skipper, both did OT VII and he died of a heart attack in 2000. She was still at Flag in 2005.
Frank and Mo – AOSH Academy sup team
These were a great team, funny, witty and good at their jobs. Mo routed out, Frank got promoted and then badly busted, spent ten years on the RPF and on graduation in 2001 became the D/CO AOSH. He was Tech Sec last time I saw him.
Darlean Gowes – for Captain AOSH
Died of cancer in 2002 at Walsh Manor.
Mick Parkee: CO Estates
I don’t know if any you remember the Chinese-Australian Co Estates in 1986? When I got back to UK from SMI Int that year, I decided to move to Estates Org, leaving Rolf Glatt alone in the UK SMI Office. Mick dealt, with a budget of nothing, the feeding of, maintaining buildings and operation of a transportation system for about 120 crew with considerable humour and resignation. Mick and old OT III, and a real genuine old Saint Hiller, was fun to work with, though a bit of a pushover, I moved to directly from Maintenance Sec to CO Tours Com with so much as a CSW, I think Craig actually bought me from Mick... Mick in AOSH again, working with the rapidly fading Isla Pride in the Apollo AO.
Cameron and Kalanie Frost – SHF staff
Kalanie was the broody sister of Maria, she married Cameron, and – this is pre the 1986 Miscavitch ED cancelling child birth – with a few years had five noisy kids. Cameron succumbed to a vey case of MS or similar degenerative disease and died in 1998 or 9. Kalanie remarried and is public in EG.
Massimo Angius – Legal Aide UK
Since 1988 he has been the bane of anyone wishing to tell the truth about Scn Corporate activities and crimes in the UK. A very sharp Italian man with pretty extensive legal training, this, coupled with the black arts taught by OSA Int, makes him a formidable enemy. for those who don’t know him, he can be charming, but will stick in the knife on friends and foe alike just for laughs.
Jean François Paris and Angela Paris –
JF was a professional artist before getting into Scn, he ended up in the SO at Saint Hill in 1983, Divorced his then wife Arlene Jackson – you Ars bugs will know her- married Angela, and worked as FSM I/C for quite a few years. He was busted in 1995, worked in Base crew for two years, routed out and now lives in Chicago, he makes a living as a decorator and produces his far out art work in between.
Angela was kicked out of the SO in 1994 by DM and Marty Rathbourne during an inspection of Qual AOSH, they apparently walked into her Intern room talking loudly, she told them off, and ended up living in EG in a small flat and working in Sainsburies. She was reprieved in 1998 following a big expansion push – yes another one folks - , and worked as the Cadet School I/C for a few years. She was a brittle distant lady, but I got on well with her. She is now back on her old post in Qual AOSH.
Sally Steel: former programs ops
Worked in FOLO in the eighties, a very attractive girl, she is only mentioned here because I had fierce crush on her, but was too shy to try anything on. She was reposted to AOLA, and routed out in 1999, she lives in the Oxford area now from what I know.
John and Alison Hardgreaves – Former CLO/FOLO programs staff
John was the pushy boss of the programs branch for the bulk of his career, a quintessentially English bod, he transferred to AOSH to train as NOTs auditor in 1998, he is still enjoying this new career today, doing well, and I wish him well. A thoroughly decent chap altogether.
Ron Norton – the scary garrison CO CLO at the launch of the NEM circa 1996
Ron descended on a sleepy Saint Hill base in 1994 with a command team from Int. This fiery bunch were sent with orders to use the most violent means possible to get the base and UK orgs to Saint Hill size while remaining just within the bounds of legality. They got a lot done, including the purchase and renovation of Walsh manor, moving the crew out of the slums they had been living in for the prior two decades. With the garrison CO and D/CO Prod CMO, they created scenes reminiscent of the Alex Siborskie ‘Battle of Britain’ mission in 1973. The pattern of screaming, thumping desks and summery ‘executions’ - RPFing without any recourse to justice – provided an atmosphere of barely restrained violence and desperation. The teams were all recalled and a more ‘in pr’ team was allowed to take over in 1999. Last time I was in LA in 2000, he was the CO FLO. The UK is still recovering from what amounted to a twenty year set back.
Mick Wenlock – a wild ex biker, IAS Rep, made a brief appearance on the UK stage in 1987
You all should know this burly, hairy irrepressible character, one of the soundest blokes I ever had the pleasure of working with. We did a tour to Dublin in 1988, and had a great laugh.
Me: A fairly freshly graduated EPFer and transferee from SMI Int to SMI UK.
Jean Disher: Former CO SMI Int
A real butch Bostonian, she was a funny and great lady. Was busted and RPFed following her affair with the Bridge Pubs sales dir. She was my first CO, and I worked in SMI Int with her, Cherle, Clair Gaiman and Rea Matheison’s wife for a year. Jean graduated the RPF in about 1996, she worked in the LRH PPRO section at Gold for a few years, when I was CO SMI UK she would call me desperately seeking pictures and stories from the work we were doing in India, she was busted again and was in Pac Crew last I heard in 2005.
Clair Gaiman: Daughter of the eloquent and dignified for GO Director of PR WW, David Gaiman.
Clair was and is a good woman. She CO SMI just before Caroline Mustard took over; they were both busted due to some enormous flap in 1998. Caroline was RPFed, and Clair reduced in rank from WO to swamper. She was posted as President SMI Int. (SMI Officer Int. being the exact title), she continues to do this post with her usual energy and aplomb, and works in her - very rare - free time to get her celebrity brother, author Neil Gaiman, back on lines.
That’s it for now folks, hope it fills in some gaps. I have a lot of good memories from my time at Central Marketing Int, where I worked with Jeff Hawkins, Ramina Nunnely, Waldo and others of some considerable note, maybe I will try to summarise this period at some later date; assuming I have not bored you all to death with this encyclopaedic offering.
John Paul - johnAnchovie -

[Mary]

Hello John Paul,

Thank you so very much for posting all this data.

Woww!! So many good people. It's just great to hear news about old friends. Just amazing!!

Myself, and I'm sure, many others on this message board will be very interested to hear as much as you'd care to write.

Again, many thanks. Hopefully we'll read more posts from yourself.

Love,

Mary.

[johnAnchovie]

Watch this space!

John Paul -

[Mary]

..

[Mary]

Hello Mary, I posted this on XSO a few days ago, since I saw your request, could not resist reposting here, I hope that brings back a few memories.
-

Co-incidentally, a few days ago I was searching through Google for an ex-Sea Org message board that another member on this board had mentioned. I so much wanted to know how friends in the UK were doing. I gave up because I couldn't find it.

My daughter is in the Sea Org at St Hill. I haven't seen her for three years and I'm so worried about her.

[Mick Wenlock]

Co-incidentally, a few days ago I was searching through Google for an ex-Sea Org message board that another member on this board had mentioned. I so much wanted to know how friends in the UK were doing. I gave up because I couldn't find it.

My daughter is in the Sea Org at St Hill. I haven't seen her for three years and I'm so worried about her.

Hi Mary,

The XSO Message board is only readable by members.

Mick

[Tanstaafl]

Co-incidentally, a few days ago I was searching through Google for an ex-Sea Org message board that another member on this board had mentioned. I so much wanted to know how friends in the UK were doing. I gave up because I couldn't find it.

My daughter is in the Sea Org at St Hill. I haven't seen her for three years and I'm so worried about her.

Mary, I'll be around the area in a fortnight or so. Do you want me to check out how she's doing?

[Terril park]

Thanks John,
I knew some of these people.

[Mary]

Mary, I'll be around the area in a fortnight or so. Do you want me to check out how she's doing?

Many thanks Tanstaafl. I just sent you a private message.

The tears are just streaming down my face and the anger and frustration broils up within me against this souless, mindless organisation - this unthinking machine that can take people's loyalites and love for their families and closest friends and tear them to shreds.

It is absolutely wrong and immoral in the eyes of any race, of any culture. The world should know exactly what is going on and just who is mandating and supporting this evil practice of disconnection.

[Tanstaafl]

Many thanks Tanstaafl. I just sent you a private message.

The tears are just streaming down my face and the anger and frustration broils up within me against this souless, mindless organisation - this unthinking machine that can take people's loyalites and love for their families and closest friends and tear them to shreds.

It is absolutely wrong and immoral in the eyes of any race, of any culture. The world should know exactly what is going on and just who is mandating and supporting this evil practice of disconnection.

I feel for you Mary, as I'm sure many do on the Board.

I'll do what I can.

Just PM'd you back.

Best wishes,

tanstaafl

[Zinjifar]

Many thanks Tanstaafl. I just sent you a private message.

The tears are just streaming down my face and the anger and frustration broils up within me against this souless, mindless organisation - this unthinking machine that can take people's loyalites and love for their families and closest friends and tear them to shreds.

It is absolutely wrong and immoral in the eyes of any race, of any culture. The world should know exactly what is going on and just who is mandating and supporting this evil practice of disconnection.

You're not alone Mary. Not by a long shot, although, the numerous personal tragedies don't diminish any of the individual ones.

Hopefully the machinery will soon crumble. As it should have decades ago. But, it's closer now.

Have you considered contacting Grace Aarons?

Zinj

[johnAnchovie]

Co-incidentally, a few days ago I was searching through Google for an ex-Sea Org message board that another member on this board had mentioned. I so much wanted to know how friends in the UK were doing. I gave up because I couldn't find it.

My daughter is in the Sea Org at St Hill. I haven't seen her for three years and I'm so worried about her.

I was very much at SH and on the UK scene till June last year, if you would like to pm me with her name I can give a you a fair idea as to how she was doing up till then for sure, and a bit of a predict as to - possibly - how to help her get out.

John

[OHTEEATE]

Mary, That situation makes me very angry and at times makes me burst out in tears, so I decided to do something about it. I was successful in telling my family story on BBCs' Panorama program, and am continuing to tell it to anyone who will listen. It's a bit of repetition required, but it is a long campaign, not won in a single battle. It is outside the other parts of Scientology to my mind. It is a cover up of misdeeds and altered importances, carried on to hide the criminal acts of those in charge, especially DM. You can find an outlet for your frustration and grief here, or you can join the effort to end disconnection as a policy by subjecting it to public ridicule and disapproval. Scientology must disown disconnection or fail to achieve its aims. I broke through my "training" and contacted the press through Chuck Beatty, and I am so glad I did. It's a huge load off my mind that I got into action on it rather than just suffering in silence. Much Love, and you have friends that understand, here. Mike:hug:
QUOTE=Mary;17597]Many thanks Tanstaafl. I just sent you a private message.

The tears are just streaming down my face and the anger and frustration broils up within me against this souless, mindless organisation - this unthinking machine that can take people's loyalites and love for their families and closest friends and tear them to shreds.

It is absolutely wrong and immoral in the eyes of any race, of any culture. The world should know exactly what is going on and just who is mandating and supporting this evil practice of disconnection.[/QUOTE]

[Mary]

Thanks Zinjifar, I will look up that name on the web.

[Mary]

Thanks John, I just sent you a pm.

[Mary]

Ohteeate,

I really admire your courage in speaking out. What you do is of tremendous assistance.

Reading the stories that were posted on the web was for me what actually cracked through the thick layers of Scientology indoctrination and made me examine what was really going on.

For personal reasons I still cannot publically speak out. I hope that one day I might.

Thanks,

Mary.

[Mary]

Ann Lawson and Robert Lawson.

My very good friends. I miss you and hope that you can see through all the insanity in the Church. Grab the kids and get the hell out of there, for their sake, please.

I hope you might find your names on a web search and find this message.

Love you much,

Mary.

[Pixie]

I'd like to come to England and roam the countryside, dispensing wisdom in pubs and on street corners.

I'll bet I could gather quite a following there.

The English naturally look up to and adore Americans, from what I've gathered.

Maybe I can teach them to fish.

Sorry Alanzo, but that's 'other fish to fry' and 'not ok'.. :naughty:

[Pixie]

Many thanks Tanstaafl. I just sent you a private message.

The tears are just streaming down my face and the anger and frustration broils up within me against this souless, mindless organisation - this unthinking machine that can take people's loyalites and love for their families and closest friends and tear them to shreds.

It is absolutely wrong and immoral in the eyes of any race, of any culture. The world should know exactly what is going on and just who is mandating and supporting this evil practice of disconnection.

Dearest Mary, I am so sorry for what is happening to you regarding your daughter. My heart truly goes out to you and I can only pray that she wakes up soon and sees the light. Hopefully the 'church' will fall apart sooner rather than later and your daughter and all the other families that have been separated by such evil will be reunited once and for all. My thoughts and wishes are with you. :yes:

[Pixie]

Hello Mary, I posted this on XSO a few days ago, since I saw your request, could not resist reposting here, I hope that brings back a few memories.

"Most readers would agree that the SO life style would be seen as something of an aberration when viewed against what constitutes a normalcy index for human life quality in the developed world. We tended to live under considerable economic depravity, extreme stress and were in the main cut off from friends and family. Yet it cannot be denied that it was an intense experience, probably because it departed so much from the norm. It was an experience that cannot be understood except by those who have actually lived it, this can and does create difficulty when attempting to provide a descriptive to the uninitiated.
Since I am heading back to University this Autumn, and will be majoring in History and Philosophy, I could not help but be challenged to attempt to clarify the historical record and recapitulate on the main characters and bring them forward from the 1980s to May 2006, just before I made my rather dramatic exit... I hope that this chronoscope will be of interest; here goes.
Cast of characters and brief history:
Craig Mathieson – former CO Tours
Criag, the charismatic ex 70’s prog rock musician, was the epitome of cool back then. He had cars, a swanky office and would not accept the degraded conditions the majority of Sea Org members lived in at that that time. He felt – correctly - that he could do little to effect material improvement for the rest of the UK SO base, so he regged like mad and built a fairly ‘yuppie’ life style for himself, the wife Karen and his lovely children, all this against the backdrop of dark mutterings of jealousy from senior execs at FLO and staff on the UK base. His position was pretty much protected in that he was the ‘golden boy’ and provided something like 90 percent of the income for the UK operation both at Saint Hill and in the struggling Class V orgs network. He was briefly posted as CO CLO. Busted, became D/CO AOSH, had a torrid affair with Lena, and was RPFed. He completed OT V and graduated around 2004. Last time I saw him he had married the very attractive 22 year old LRH Pers sec, and was now D/CO Sales in AOSH.
Ken Warren: - former DCOI CLO
The bearded wild man, I really liked Ken, he was full of energy and tried to deal with things in a light hearted and humorous manner. He was RPFed by Jan Jansen I think in 1993, graduated and became an exec in AOSH. He did OT III around 1995 or ‘96 and routed out shortly thereafter. He now lives in Australia and was working for Craig Jensens Executive Software, establishing the antipodeans version of the brand.
Lyndall Warren – UK Programs Dir
Ken’s wife, the mousy Australian, she was always freezing cold in the UK, poor dear, was in programs bureau for years. At the launch of New Era of Management, she was sent to the FLO, where she was trained up as CO FOLO, and came back with a nice hair cut, failed miserably and was put on the decks – washing up in the galley. Lyndall was a very sweet and gentle lady, I don’t know how she took the amount of sh** that she did, and deep down, even as an SO member, I was very happy that she and Ken left for a better life in Australia.
Roger Kaye – Mission Holder Brighton, and later Bournemouth
Good old Roger. Mission holder and div 6er extraordinary. A complete maniac, but boy, could he make money. He built a house of cards in Brighton that produced lots of Div 6 raw meat, good dosh and loads bods to SH. He opened the Mission of Bournemouth, turned over Brighton to Steve Webster while CLO, under Steve Lake, stat pushed the place into a class V org. Steve Webster and his team could not maintain what was essentially a sham, complaide loudly and bitterly and he promptly got declared. The Brighton org struggles on, often not paying its rent, propped up by various garrison EDs and teams of SO rejects – Sea Org couples who ran out money to buy contraceptives, the resultant pregnancy forcing their excommunication from SO activity, banished to the horrors of the Class V Orgs... Roger was not declared, he knew too much, he was kept on a tight rein by OSA, constantly making amends of one kind or another as a public, he is still doing this, and attempting to get various ventures started. Still married to lovely and long suffering Andrea Webber, he works in advertising, selling space in magazines. He lives in Poole, Dorset.
David Beal – Registrar
This fellow was a dodgy salesman if I ever met one, made hundreds of thousands on illegal debiting of stagnant money in parishioners accounts. He was a full SO member, and D/CO Tours under Craig M. He bought a house in EG with his ill gotten gains, lots of nice leather jackets, and moved out with his wife and Kids from the Stonelands slum and resided there, quite nicely, thank you very much, until he got found out and declared SP. The family left EG and last I heard, David was a financial advisor in Hartfordshire.
Cherle Laws – CO SMI
I love this lady. Once a South African beauty, she married Gerald in the Seventies, moved to England and the two joined the SO. Cherle was CO SMI in 1995 when the various – quite incredible - scams going on in Bournemouth finally blew up in a splew of litigation that nearly brought the UK Church down. Cherle was busted to Base crew – Estates Org for you oldies – and became the Medical Liaison Officer for the base really. She nursed Darlean through her last agonising days prior to succumbing to cancer, she did the same for good old Dick Garlick and Pam Malinson (sent back from IASA to UK to die). A lot of her time is devoted to looking after the very old UK SO crew (John Harvey, John Cox, Thelma Cusworth et al. She is the Florence Nightingale to all the stressed out CMO and CLO execs, who collapse every now and again with a bewildering array of complaints due in part to lack of sleep and adequate nutrition. Last I knew Cherle was still fulfilling this function at Walsh Manor in Crowborough.
Gerald Laws – sometimes CO SMI, and about half of his now thirty year career on the RPF in various parts of the globe
He was on the RPF in US and UK from around 1993 to 1999 when he graduated and became my junior. I was CO SMI at this time. I sent Gerald off to India to open up some field work there. This was Geralds’ cup of tea; he loved the place and hated being imprisoned on base as an administrative corporate drone. He did well there, but upset people at Int. I walked off post following my stint in Bournemouth – I saw what SCN Corporate were really up to, it shattered my illusions - in 2001, and Gerald took over, he was back on the RPF within three weeks or so, currently serving out his term – ironically – in Australia. (Remember the old UK Birthday Game joke? Australia is England’s RPF: - )
Andrea Lloyd Davis – nee Catt
With Roger, she kicked off the idea of blank loan application forms for Div 6ers in Bournemouth. They would ‘gang reg’ a new prospect for hours or days, till he succumbed and signed a blank loan form, this would be filled out to request let us say 20 grand, and tended to go through pretty easily, lots of easy credit in the early 1990s. Bournemouth was raking in around 90K a week from this gig, and it looked great, till people began suing. Andrea finally got busted in 1995. The then CO CLO Ron Norton, sent Bruce Perry and Bart Van Locke down there to make enough money to buy off the most aggressive of the suits, (settling out of court) these boys were tough, dedicated, FLO trained Ethics and Image Officers, with Midshipman rank to boot, and they made complete balls of the scene, Andrea blew, took a lawyer, and joined the suing party. She was declared and by the time I became CO SMI UK, was the biggest danger to the nice cosy image Scientology was attempting to build for its self in the UK. I had to go on a full garrison to Bournemouth and worked with the lovely Debbie Corney and Stephanie to make the required six hundred thousand needed to buy her silence, we did it, and she shut up and went away. Shattered all my altruistic delusions about Corporate Scientology to boot, sowing the seeds that led to my exit some five years later.
Steve and Maria Lake – CLO staff
Steve the handsome Adonis, Maria his gorgeous doe-eyed wife. Steve was off loaded from the RPF by a CMOI mission in the late 1990’s. He divorced Maria, and married a very sexy public Scientology lady, daughter of a declared former Class VIII CS, and thus never qualled for the SO. He was running Executive Software UK from East Grinstead last I knew. Maria moved to LA and remarried, she was on lines at AOLA per my last information.
Tony Phipps
A former and very talented student at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London, got into Scientology in Tottenham Court Road around 1974. Joined the SO and worked in and around Saint Hill for years. Was CO SHF in the mid and late eighties, moved to finance following a stint on the RPF, and worked with me on the International Computerisation project in the US during 1993 to 1996. He became Finance Inspector UK in ’97 and was still doing so when I left. He goes into severe doubt every once in a while, and was Comm- Eved for reading Jon Attacks ‘A Piece of Blue Sky’ in 2005, - I recommend this book by the way. – I think he is still in finance in some capacity at Saint Hill.
Lena – surname not give here due to potential legal repercussions –
A stunning, horny and restless rich bitch, daughter of some kind of Lebanese sheik. Back in 1987 she drove a hot Porsche, was madly in love with Craig, and used to shower him with gifts. After their immoral liaisons came to light, she went off to Flag, married a trans-Atlantic race skipper, both did OT VII and he died of a heart attack in 2000. She was still at Flag in 2005.
Frank and Mo – AOSH Academy sup team
These were a great team, funny, witty and good at their jobs. Mo routed out, Frank got promoted and then badly busted, spent ten years on the RPF and on graduation in 2001 became the D/CO AOSH. He was Tech Sec last time I saw him.
Darlean Gowes – for Captain AOSH
Died of cancer in 2002 at Walsh Manor.
Mick Parkee: CO Estates
I don’t know if any you remember the Chinese-Australian Co Estates in 1986? When I got back to UK from SMI Int that year, I decided to move to Estates Org, leaving Rolf Glatt alone in the UK SMI Office. Mick dealt, with a budget of nothing, the feeding of, maintaining buildings and operation of a transportation system for about 120 crew with considerable humour and resignation. Mick and old OT III, and a real genuine old Saint Hiller, was fun to work with, though a bit of a pushover, I moved to directly from Maintenance Sec to CO Tours Com with so much as a CSW, I think Craig actually bought me from Mick... Mick in AOSH again, working with the rapidly fading Isla Pride in the Apollo AO.
Cameron and Kalanie Frost – SHF staff
Kalanie was the broody sister of Maria, she married Cameron, and – this is pre the 1986 Miscavitch ED cancelling child birth – with a few years had five noisy kids. Cameron succumbed to a vey case of MS or similar degenerative disease and died in 1998 or 9. Kalanie remarried and is public in EG.
Massimo Angius – Legal Aide UK
Since 1988 he has been the bane of anyone wishing to tell the truth about Scn Corporate activities and crimes in the UK. A very sharp Italian man with pretty extensive legal training, this, coupled with the black arts taught by OSA Int, makes him a formidable enemy. for those who don’t know him, he can be charming, but will stick in the knife on friends and foe alike just for laughs.
Jean François Paris and Angela Paris –
JF was a professional artist before getting into Scn, he ended up in the SO at Saint Hill in 1983, Divorced his then wife Arlene Jackson – you Ars bugs will know her- married Angela, and worked as FSM I/C for quite a few years. He was busted in 1995, worked in Base crew for two years, routed out and now lives in Chicago, he makes a living as a decorator and produces his far out art work in between.
Angela was kicked out of the SO in 1994 by DM and Marty Rathbourne during an inspection of Qual AOSH, they apparently walked into her Intern room talking loudly, she told them off, and ended up living in EG in a small flat and working in Sainsburies. She was reprieved in 1998 following a big expansion push – yes another one folks - , and worked as the Cadet School I/C for a few years. She was a brittle distant lady, but I got on well with her. She is now back on her old post in Qual AOSH.
Sally Steel: former programs ops
Worked in FOLO in the eighties, a very attractive girl, she is only mentioned here because I had fierce crush on her, but was too shy to try anything on. She was reposted to AOLA, and routed out in 1999, she lives in the Oxford area now from what I know.
John and Alison Hardgreaves – Former CLO/FOLO programs staff
John was the pushy boss of the programs branch for the bulk of his career, a quintessentially English bod, he transferred to AOSH to train as NOTs auditor in 1998, he is still enjoying this new career today, doing well, and I wish him well. A thoroughly decent chap altogether.
Ron Norton – the scary garrison CO CLO at the launch of the NEM circa 1996
Ron descended on a sleepy Saint Hill base in 1994 with a command team from Int. This fiery bunch were sent with orders to use the most violent means possible to get the base and UK orgs to Saint Hill size while remaining just within the bounds of legality. They got a lot done, including the purchase and renovation of Walsh manor, moving the crew out of the slums they had been living in for the prior two decades. With the garrison CO and D/CO Prod CMO, they created scenes reminiscent of the Alex Siborskie ‘Battle of Britain’ mission in 1973. The pattern of screaming, thumping desks and summery ‘executions’ - RPFing without any recourse to justice – provided an atmosphere of barely restrained violence and desperation. The teams were all recalled and a more ‘in pr’ team was allowed to take over in 1999. Last time I was in LA in 2000, he was the CO FLO. The UK is still recovering from what amounted to a twenty year set back.
Mick Wenlock – a wild ex biker, IAS Rep, made a brief appearance on the UK stage in 1987
You all should know this burly, hairy irrepressible character, one of the soundest blokes I ever had the pleasure of working with. We did a tour to Dublin in 1988, and had a great laugh.
Me: A fairly freshly graduated EPFer and transferee from SMI Int to SMI UK.
Jean Disher: Former CO SMI Int
A real butch Bostonian, she was a funny and great lady. Was busted and RPFed following her affair with the Bridge Pubs sales dir. She was my first CO, and I worked in SMI Int with her, Cherle, Clair Gaiman and Rea Matheison’s wife for a year. Jean graduated the RPF in about 1996, she worked in the LRH PPRO section at Gold for a few years, when I was CO SMI UK she would call me desperately seeking pictures and stories from the work we were doing in India, she was busted again and was in Pac Crew last I heard in 2005.
Clair Gaiman: Daughter of the eloquent and dignified for GO Director of PR WW, David Gaiman.
Clair was and is a good woman. She CO SMI just before Caroline Mustard took over; they were both busted due to some enormous flap in 1998. Caroline was RPFed, and Clair reduced in rank from WO to swamper. She was posted as President SMI Int. (SMI Officer Int. being the exact title), she continues to do this post with her usual energy and aplomb, and works in her - very rare - free time to get her celebrity brother, author Neil Gaiman, back on lines.
That’s it for now folks, hope it fills in some gaps. I have a lot of good memories from my time at Central Marketing Int, where I worked with Jeff Hawkins, Ramina Nunnely, Waldo and others of some considerable note, maybe I will try to summarise this period at some later date; assuming I have not bored you all to death with this encyclopaedic offering.
John Paul - johnAnchovie -

Yes, Ron Norton was the one responsible for keeping my husband and me locked in the 'sin bin' at Saint Hill for over a week and would not allow us out of that room or indeed off the base. We were asking too many questions at the org as to why the 'tech' and 'admin' were being squirreled, we were told we were 'too noisy' and sent down there to write up O/W's. We had a flap in London where our rent had not been paid for months and we had been given an ultimatum and we told them we had to go to sort this out otherwise we'd both be homeless again. After endless CSW's (Completed Staff Work) they let us go but warned this was to be a monthly cycle.

We went back to the org and tried to sort our flap with my mother once again sending money, next thing, Bruce Perry and Bart Van Derlock came in, with Michaeli the LC UK and punched my husband in the stomach, frogmarched us both down the stairs (the three of them) in view of staff and public screaming at the top of their voices that we were SP's and chased us down Tottenham Court Road. They were like madmen with eyes bulging, I was never so petrified in my whole life, I truly thought they were going to kill us both and we still didn't know the real why.

We ran until we got to our car, we got in and I locked the door at my side while shaking like a leaf and crying, the car door was kicked in and they continued to kick it until my husband got out to try to reason with them, they continued to 'order' me out of the car screaming, 'you look like shit, you look like shit' and Perry continued to punch my husband. They stole our computers and all our belongings that we had on our offices and in Qual and then left. That is the tip of a very large iceberg, however, when I read those names, my blood began to boil over. These guys were fucking animals and there's no other way to describe them. Ron was a fucking two faced hypocrite, when I was on my EPF, his daughter was at the same time, however she was allowed to sleep in Daddies quarters and she used to sit on his knee every day while we were up to our thighs with no wellies dreging out the lake of mud, silt and every kind of crawly bug under the sun and if you said anything to her she'd run to daddy. I could write a book.. sorry .. getting carreid away..

[Free to shine]

Yes, Ron Norton was the one responsible for keeping my husband and me locked in the 'sin bin' at Saint Hill for over a week and would not allow us out of that room or indeed off the base. We were asking too many questions at the org as to why the 'tech' and 'admin' were being squirreled, we were told we were 'too noisy' and sent down there to write up O/W's. We had a flap in London where our rent had not been paid for months and we had been given an ultimatum and we told them we had to go to sort this out otherwise we'd both be homeless again. After endless CSW's (Completed Staff Work) they let us go but warned this was to be a monthly cycle.

We went back to the org and tried to sort our flap with my mother once again sending money, next thing, Bruce Perry and Bart Van Derlock came in, with Michaeli the LC UK and punched my husband in the stomach, frogmarched us both down the stairs (the three of them) in view of staff and public screaming at the top of their voices that we were SP's and chased us down Tottenham Court Road. They were like madmen with eyes bulging, I was never so petrified in my whole life, I truly thought they were going to kill us both and we still didn't know the real why.

We ran until we got to our car, we got in and I locked the door at my side while shaking like a leaf and crying, the car door was kicked in and they continued to kick it until my husband got out to try to reason with them, they continued to 'order' me out of the car screaming, 'you look like shit, you look like shit' and Perry continued to punch my husband. They stole our computers and all our belongings that we had on our offices and in Qual and then left. That is the tip of a very large iceberg, however, when I read those names, my blood began to boil over. These guys were fucking animals and there's no other way to describe them. Ron was a fucking two faced hypocrite, when I was on my EPF, his daughter was at the same time, however she was allowed to sleep in Daddies quarters and she used to sit on his knee every day while we were up to our thighs with no wellies dreging out the lake of mud, silt and every kind of crawly bug under the sun and if you said anything to her she'd run to daddy. I could write a book.. sorry .. getting carreid away..

Crikey! :omg:
I'm glad you are writing it out. Those sort of events haunt us forever unless we do. What pigs! Now remember to breathe...
:bighug:

[Lovesnightsky]

Hello Paul,

Very pleased to meet you. I don't think we've ever met, but we very likely have friends in common.

So many good people I remember from those days seem to have disappeared and I never knew what happened to them.

I've lived in the US now for the last five years. Although I go home for visits, I still feel a bit homesick - oh, how I miss the wonderful English weather, all that lovely rain and grey skies, umm ... drizzle ... how I miss it! In California I wake up every morning to same old boring weather: Sunny and warm, sunny and warm and oh, its sunny and warm again! You can't get real sausages or proper bacon and no decent patries or pork pies with brown sauce.

Mary.

It's true, you can't get proper bacon here. They don't sell Maltesers either. Phew... the heat!! I better get in the pool to cool down... life is so difficult after scientology...
:runaround: :surf: :artist: :winner: :party:

[Pixie]

life is so difficult after scientology...


This is the first time I've read anyone say this, you are right, for me life has been soo soo difficult after scientology. I've read most people have done so well after it but not me, I'm still very self conscious and introverted. Perhaps we just need more time to adjust and tell our stories. But thanks for that, now at least I know I'm not the only one that thinks this. On some levels it was easier inside cos certain life stuff was 'taken care of' and you didn't have to 'think'. But of course this was all 'unreal' and very 'abusive' so of course we're better off as far away from all those lies and bullshit but sure, finding your true self again is not an easy ride.

[Mary]

This is the first time I've read anyone say this, you are right, for me life has been soo soo difficult after scientology. I've read most people have done so well after it but not me, I'm still very self conscious and introverted. Perhaps we just need more time to adjust and tell our stories. But thanks for that, now at least I know I'm not the only one that thinks this. On some levels it was easier inside cos certain life stuff was 'taken care of' and you didn't have to 'think'. But of course this was all 'unreal' and very 'abusive' so of course we're better off as far away from all those lies and bullshit but sure, finding your true self again is not an easy ride.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

And I just read your previous post above. Crikey! Bleedin' 'ell! and Gawd 'elp us!!!

The wonderful thing about not being in Scn is not having all that insanity and stress and being pushed continuously to get on course, do your auditing, get your sec checks, come into the org for yet another ultra important super duper event or briefing. Get your stats up, pay more money and then pay some more money and then pay some more money into a bottomless snake pit of IAS, Superpower, library donations (ad naseum) regitrars :treadmill: who never give up, never go away.

Phew, thank god, I don't have to do that anymore. It is great to be in the real world and to feel part of the human race again.

But - and for me this is really a big one. I still feel that I'm only pretending to be a "normal everyday person". That's not how I feel. It's really hard to communicate when I have such enormous withholds from so many people.

My attention is very much on the fact that half of my family is disconnected from the other half of my family and innocent grannies and grandchildren and cousins and friends cannot meet because some of them are still in contact with others that others are not supposed to be in contact with. Some are still sort of in, want to be out, but can't say so because they'll be disconnected from others. One or two are pretending to be in and swearing others to secrecy about it because of their children. Some did a basic course or two many years ago and are not sure if that counts, and don't dared call anyone's attention to it because they might be declared for talking to who they shouldn't. It's utterly mind boggling!

And how in the world can you possibly talk about all the crazyness that one has experienced in the church, like the incident that you described. Would one be believed? It's no bloody wonder that I end up being very quiet and awfully polite. When really, I desperately want everyone to know about it and understand the full implications.

[Pixie]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

And I just read your previous post above. Crikey! Bleedin' 'ell! and Gawd 'elp us!!!

The wonderful thing about not being in Scn is not having all that insanity and stress and being pushed continuously to get on course, do your auditing, get your sec checks, come into the org for yet another ultra important super duper event or briefing. Get your stats up, pay more money and then pay some more money and then pay some more money into a bottomless snake pit of IAS, Superpower, library donations (ad naseum) regitrars :treadmill: who never give up, never go away.

Phew, thank god, I don't have to do that anymore. It is great to be in the real world and to feel part of the human race again.

But - and for me this is really a big one. I still feel that I'm only pretending to be a "normal everyday person". That's not how I feel. It's really hard to communicate when I have such enormous withholds from so many people.

My attention is very much on the fact that half of my family is disconnected from the other half of my family and innocent grannies and grandchildren and cousins and friends cannot meet because some of them are still in contact with others that others are not supposed to be in contact with. Some are still sort of in, want to be out, but can't say so because they'll be disconnected from others. One or two are pretending to be in and swearing others to secrecy about it because of their children. Some did a basic course or two many years ago and are not sure if that counts, and don't dared call anyone's attention to it because they might be declared for talking to who they shouldn't. It's utterly mind boggling!

And how in the world can you possibly talk about all the crazyness that one has experienced in the church, like the incident that you described. Would one be believed? It's no bloody wonder that I end up being very quiet and awfully polite. When really, I desperately want everyone to know about it and understand the full implications.

Wow!!:omg: A girl after my own heart. You duplicate my feelings exactly. One of the reasons I've not been able to write is because a lot of what I went through does in fact sound so unbeleivable, it's true, and what happens here is that I'll start to write something and it comes out in spurts then I stop myself cos I think no they're going to think I'm making this up. This was ll written up over a period of four years to Int Managment and independantly to McSavage and of course I got no reply.

Also, the time lines are shot to hell and it is confusing even for me but yesterday I remembered where the trauma started so it's coming together. I am still heart broken you see, I have nightmares and very weird thoughts. I've not read anyone else having this amount of 'fall out' so I just keep quiet but sometimes.. like when I read Norton's name I just typed and typed. But sure, perhaps we ought to start a thread like that although most here sound pretty sane compared to what's still going on in my head regarding the 'church' and my experiences in it.

It's bloody hard going I don't care what anyone says and yes Mary you are so so right, a lot of it, for me anyway, is pretending to be normal and I think that's why I am now so ill. A lot of the data you get in there DOES mess with your head for sure and you just don't know what's real anymore. So thank you so much for that acknowledgment. It IS hard to believe that two Sea Org members can turn into animals in the middle of one of the busiest streets in London and kick your car over and over again in full view of the public. I remember screaming at my husband to phone the police, but we were both too afraid. I mean can you imagine that? Too afraid? Afraid of what?? We'd already been verbally declared.. I still don't get it.

Banging on the bonnet of the car, over and over again, then kicking the door in and the screaming. I can honestly say it was the scariest thing I've ever felt in my life. Their eyes were bulging with temper cos we wouldn't get out of the car. And screaming, 'what did you do to pull this in'? Insanity? Insanity itself gone mad.

Then two years later Perry told me we were being used as 'heads on pikes'! Heads on pikes for what? For asking why there was squirreling going on?? And as I said, it was the tip of the iceberg. I know some day I'll have to get this all out of my system, it's not like I'm 'carrying' it around and don't want to let it go, I do, so much, and I don't hate these people, I understand them more now, but for sure I hated them then. :bigcry: Oh here we go, it's just too much emotion for me to deal with really. Thanks Mary... :)

[nexus100]

It's true, you can't get proper bacon here. They don't sell Maltesers either. Phew... the heat!! I better get in the pool to cool down... life is so difficult after scientology...
:runaround: :surf: :artist: :winner: :party:

Take a visit up the coast to Seattle. I can't promise the food, but the weather, no problem.

[British Mom]

Hi, I was at St. Hill from 81 to 1995. I liked Julie Price. I was on staff at AOSH late 80's or 90's (cant bloody remember, I have short & long term memory loss now). I worked with Margaret Ainsworth & Susan Prieur as a C/s, but was auditor for a long while.

Suz

[Alanzo]

Hi, I was at St. Hill from 81 to 1995. I liked Julie Price. I was on staff at AOSH late 80's or 90's (cant bloody remember, I have short & long term memory loss now). I worked with Margaret Ainsworth & Susan Prieur as a C/s, but was auditor for a long while.

Suz

Welcome, Suz!

Don't mind my make-up, the Clerk plowed into a couple of bottles of wine last night and decided to desecrate everyone's avatars.

You'll get that around here everyone once in a while.

If you've ever seen "Animal House", we are not the fraternity that does the satanic ritual pledge ceremonies. We're the one next door.

Tansy is Bluto.

[Dulloldfart]

Hey Suz,

Do I know you?

Paul Adams

[British Mom]

Dont know, were you on Staff?

[British Mom]

Did you know Dominic OBrien?

[British Mom]

Hi, Send me a PM & let me know who you knew at that time & I'll reply.

[Pixie]

Hi, I was at St. Hill from 81 to 1995. I liked Julie Price. I was on staff at AOSH late 80's or 90's (cant bloody remember, I have short & long term memory loss now). I worked with Margaret Ainsworth & Susan Prieur as a C/s, but was auditor for a long while.

Suz

I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering from this 'memory loss', I thought it was just me going mad. I guess the traumas have somehow affected our memories somewhat, I know my time line from that decade has been shot to pieces for sure. Well perhaps in time Suz it will all come back to us and we can deal with it and put it away. :yes:

[Mick Wenlock]

It's true, you can't get proper bacon here. They don't sell Maltesers either. Phew... the heat!! I better get in the pool to cool down... life is so difficult after scientology...
:runaround: :surf: :artist: :winner: :party:


not sure where you are located but California has tons of british food shops. Nancy and I buy our Tea by the case from Piccadilly Importers based in California (we get Yorkshire Red) that same place has bacon, sausages, Maltesers, real Cadburys, sherbert fountains, you name it. McVities chocolate digestives - I could go on but I don't want to give you palpitations...

[Mick Wenlock]

I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering from this 'memory loss', I thought it was just me going mad. I guess the traumas have somehow affected our memories somewhat, I know my time line from that decade has been shot to pieces for sure. Well perhaps in time Suz it will all come back to us and we can deal with it and put it away. :yes:


Pixie! You are far from being the only one - it is a frequent complaint of ex-Sea Org members, myself included. I can find myself getting the years wrong when I did things, some areas seem to have taken years when it was only months. For the longest time I got the year wrong that my wife and I arrived back in the UK.

I first went to Flag in January 78. During that time I did a bunch of courses, two missions, got posted as D/CS 6 and then left. I always "remembered" it ias being a year or more. Not true - I left for Europe in September.

[Mick Wenlock]

This is the first time I've read anyone say this, you are right, for me life has been soo soo difficult after scientology. I've read most people have done so well after it but not me, I'm still very self conscious and introverted. Perhaps we just need more time to adjust and tell our stories. But thanks for that, now at least I know I'm not the only one that thinks this. On some levels it was easier inside cos certain life stuff was 'taken care of' and you didn't have to 'think'. But of course this was all 'unreal' and very 'abusive' so of course we're better off as far away from all those lies and bullshit but sure, finding your true self again is not an easy ride.

Hi Pixie,

one of the reasons I wrote my story out was to show people that everything is not just a snap when we get out. As a family we had some very tough times - and many great ones too.

One thing to bear in mind when you say "most people have done well" - have you ever met a scientologist who was willing to admit that he or she was not doing well? Even exes who are still somewhat in the mindset avoid saying that. Some people still worry about appearing "downstat"!!!

So no worries - you are very much in the middle of the curve I think.

[Nuselkie]

why would you tell the church anything about this board?

[Nuselkie]

Am I being obtuse?? But are you in good standing with the beloved mother church??

[Mary]

why would you tell the church anything about this board?

Welcome Nuselkie,

Good to hear from you. I think that is an extremely good question - deserves it's own thread actually!

When I was still indoctrinated, I was trying to help the church and doing my best to protect them from any criticisms, even though some of the insanities were glaringly obvious.

I came across this board and read some of the posts - it was an electrifying experience. It was like penicillin to the heavily infected areas of $cn indoctrination.

Would I want others to have the same gains gotten from this board? You bet. :yes:

[johnAnchovie]

I found it very important to find a commonality of experience with other ex Scientologists and ex Sea Org members, having been through a period of suicidal depression a few months after escaping the cult, I got help from a properly recognized counselling centre. Later I came across the board and was able to share my experiences, I am now writing articles and giving briefings on the subject of Scientology.

All of the above are very important steps in my own recovery, I would more than recommend that you do the same, there are excellent counseling services available in England, also get medical advice.

I may have met you, Perry and co were trained with Norton by the savaige on a new uncompromising system of management, why use diplomacy when a sledge hammer will do?

PM me if you want, I can call you and run you through some of the positive actions I have taken, some may be of benefit to you.

Meanwhile, all the best, and be gentle with yourself.

J.

[Mick Wenlock]

Meanwhile, all the best, and be gentle with yourself.

J.

John - what a great mantra. The exact opposite of scientology.

I could not agree more.

[johnAnchovie]

Hi Mick, it is the advice that my therapist gave after my first session, it helped me to turn the corner as began to come to terms with where I had been and what I had done to myself, not to mention others.

I use this along with 'respect yourself' and 'value yourself' or the more hackneyed but still very relevant 'love yourself'.

[Free to shine]

Hi Mick, it is the advice that my therapist gave after my first session, it helped me to turn the corner as began to come to terms with where I had been and what I had done to myself, not to mention others.

I use this along with 'respect yourself' and 'value yourself' or the more hackneyed but still very relevant 'love yourself'.

I was just talking to someone about this. The whole concept of "love yourself" was so foreign to me, having been virtually raised in Scientology. It was very, VERY hard to become "selfish" and actually both demand and accept the good things I deserve. There you go "deserve" is another concept that gets twisted and took a lot of sorting out. Like "you deserve your Bridge because you are one of the able". Well how come that turns into a money making exercise with only one outcome? How come you end up living in poverty and sometimes despair because you can't "make it go right" to get what you "deserve"? You start to think you deserve nothing....

First you need to come to know yourself, warts and all, forgive yourself and acknowledge and start to respect your true gifts. :)

[Terril park]

Did you know Dominic OBrien?

I 'm a freezone friend of his. Can connect you if you want.

In my sig line you will see a URL for the channel 4 program, ' The
Beginners guide to LRH'.

Dominic was one of the stars.

Mail me at basic2basic@yahoo.com

[DartSmohen]

not sure where you are located but California has tons of british food shops. Nancy and I buy our Tea by the case from Piccadilly Importers based in California (we get Yorkshire Red) that same place has bacon, sausages, Maltesers, real Cadburys, sherbert fountains, you name it. McVities chocolate digestives - I could go on but I don't want to give you palpitations...


Yorkshire Red??????
Ugh!! Such an inferior blend.

We have Rington's tea delivered to us here in the UK.

In the same way we have Spoff Meusli & Highland Oats sent to us, along with McSween's Haggis, Black Pudding from Bury,Pork Pies from Melton Mowbray, kippers from Seahouses, the list goes on and on.

I know that you have a huge variety of product available in the supermarkets, but I have yet to find in the USA decent sausages, decent bread, decent milk, decent bacon and surprisingly, decent chinese food.

Go on, have a nibble....:yes:

[asagai]

Meanwhile, all the best, and be gentle with yourself.

J.


I use this along with 'respect yourself' and 'value yourself' or the more hackneyed but still very relevant 'love yourself'.

I was just talking to someone about this. The whole concept of "love yourself" was so foreign to me, having been virtually raised in Scientology. It was very, VERY hard to become "selfish" and actually both demand and accept the good things I deserve. There you go "deserve" is another concept that gets twisted and took a lot of sorting out. Like "you deserve your Bridge because you are one of the able". Well how come that turns into a money making exercise with only one outcome? How come you end up living in poverty and sometimes despair because you can't "make it go right" to get what you "deserve"? You start to think you deserve nothing....

First you need to come to know yourself, warts and all, forgive yourself and acknowledge and start to respect your true gifts. :)

This is great therapy for recovering ex-Scns! :thumbsup:

The marvellous thing is that once you have learned to be gentle with self, respect, value and love yourself you magically love all the others too! :happydance:

Forgive yourself for your part in Scn and you can also forgive all the current Scns. DM is me! This is the true meaning of "the dynamics".

Reading about Bonnie Woods Court victory I saw old friends named on both sides of the case. We are the "cult" (Judge Latey) and the victims of it.

"More than Hope, more than Faith, Love it is the greatest" - St Paul

[Dulloldfart]

I know that you have a huge variety of product available in the supermarkets, but I have yet to find in the USA decent sausages, decent bread, decent milk, decent bacon and surprisingly, decent chinese food.


I don't know about the Chinese food, but I pretty much agree with the rest. US sausages! Heh.

Paul

[Free to shine]

Yorkshire Red??????
Ugh!! Such an inferior blend.

We have Rington's tea delivered to us here in the UK.

In the same way we have Spoff Meusli & Highland Oats sent to us, along with McSween's Haggis, Black Pudding from Bury,Pork Pies from Melton Mowbray, kippers from Seahouses, the list goes on and on.

I know that you have a huge variety of product available in the supermarkets, but I have yet to find in the USA decent sausages, decent bread, decent milk, decent bacon and surprisingly, decent chinese food.

Go on, have a nibble....:yes:

You like haggis too? And I do miss real pork pies....:melodramatic:

[Mick Wenlock]

Yorkshire Red??????
Ugh!! Such an inferior blend.


ah sad to see you have no taste...:bigcry:


We have Rington's tea delivered to us here in the UK.

In the same way we have Spoff Meusli & Highland Oats sent to us, along with McSween's Haggis, Black Pudding from Bury,Pork Pies from Melton Mowbray, kippers from Seahouses, the list goes on and on.


That's nice. Love black pudding but the Danes make the best.


I know that you have a huge variety of product available in the supermarkets, but I have yet to find in the USA decent sausages, decent bread, decent milk, decent bacon and surprisingly, decent chinese food.

Go on, have a nibble....:yes:

English sausages are my taste but that does not make them "decent" I guess. I like the breakfast sausages over here just fine. Bread - now there is a whole nother thing but there again Sainsburys bread sucks as does ASDA, Morrisons and the rest - it is the same processed crap they sell over here. But if you want decent bread here it's the same as the UK - you gotta go to a decent bakery. The best country for bread and pastry is Denmark by a country mile - many bakeries everywhere. I'm not a milk connoisseur so cant really say about that, Bacon is definitely not the American strong suit. The only way to get decent bacon is from the import stores and pay a pretty penny for it too.

Chinese food - never liked it. I would kill for a decent vindaloo though...

[Corsa]

In the same way we have Spoff Meusli & Highland Oats sent to us, along with McSween's Haggis, Black Pudding from Bury,Pork Pies from Melton Mowbray, kippers from Seahouses, the list goes on and on.

Just a tiny question from a 'neither brit nor USA' boardmember: What is Spoff Meusli? Small, exploding mice? :unsure: Please explain :)
I learning a lot from this board :yes:
But very proud, I know what Haggis is :yes:

[Zinjifar]

Just a tiny question from a 'neither brit nor USA' boardmember: What is Spoff Meusli? Small, exploding mice? :unsure: Please explain :)
I learning a lot from this board :yes:
But very proud, I know what Haggis is :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muesli

I'm more familiar with the German than the swiss variants, but, you can buy hundreds of kinds in the US as 'Trail Mix' (and muesli)

Zinj

[Mick Wenlock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muesli

I'm more familiar with the German than the swiss variants, but, you can buy hundreds of kinds in the US as 'Trail Mix' (and muesli)

Zinj


I believe it was Frank Muir who said:

" collect up the leavings from some horse feed bags, sweep out the budgie cage and mix it together and market it as some sort of wonder swiss health food. Can't fail"

[Zinjifar]

I believe it was Frank Muir who said:

" collect up the leavings from some horse feed bags, sweep out the budgie cage and mix it together and market it as some sort of wonder swiss health food. Can't fail"

'Raisins!?? You think those are *Raisins*???'

Zinj

[DartSmohen]

'Raisins!?? You think those are *Raisins*???'

Zinj


I remember being in a Edinburgh restaurant with some "dry-as-dust" Kiwis. We had a cold meat salad (lamb). The salad had raisins in it.

"Christ, they don't waste much of the sheep" was the laconic comment.:hysterical:

[DartSmohen]

ah sad to see you have no taste...:bigcry:



That's nice. Love black pudding but the Danes make the best.



English sausages are my taste but that does not make them "decent" I guess. I like the breakfast sausages over here just fine. Bread - now there is a whole nother thing but there again Sainsburys bread sucks as does ASDA, Morrisons and the rest - it is the same processed crap they sell over here. But if you want decent bread here it's the same as the UK - you gotta go to a decent bakery. The best country for bread and pastry is Denmark by a country mile - many bakeries everywhere. I'm not a milk connoisseur so cant really say about that, Bacon is definitely not the American strong suit. The only way to get decent bacon is from the import stores and pay a pretty penny for it too.

Chinese food - never liked it. I would kill for a decent vindaloo though...

In the Newcastle area of England (they are fanatical about their football team - nickname Magpies). On a weekend, having drunk 20-25 bottles of Newcastle Brown Ale, they need a curry on the way home. However their taste buds get desensitised, so they need a powerful curry. If you can imagine the step from a Kurma to a Vindaloo, then the same leap from a Vindaloo to a "Magaloo". It is SO hot that you cannot eat them very often as your stomach lining gets burned away.

It gives the term "Ring of Fire" a whole new meaning.:yes:

[DartSmohen]

Just a tiny question from a 'neither brit nor USA' boardmember: What is Spoff Meusli? Small, exploding mice? :unsure: Please explain :)
I learning a lot from this board :yes:
But very proud, I know what Haggis is :yes:

Spoff is a Scottish company that produces probably the finest meusli and porridge oats around. Google them. :yes: :coolwink:

[The Oracle]

Hi Mick, sorry to break in your conversation here. According to CPU you are viewing this thread. Hope I caught you on time.

Excuse me. A friend of yours is in colorado and having a hard time reaching you via tele. since you last spoke (yesterday?).

I tried to send you private email here but it is blocked.

I will log on to XSO request to join page and enter his cell tele so you can reach him.

T.O.

[Mick Wenlock]

In the Newcastle area of England (they are fanatical about their football team - nickname Magpies). On a weekend, having drunk 20-25 bottles of Newcastle Brown Ale, they need a curry on the way home. However their taste buds get desensitised, so they need a powerful curry. If you can imagine the step from a Kurma to a Vindaloo, then the same leap from a Vindaloo to a "Magaloo". It is SO hot that you cannot eat them very often as your stomach lining gets burned away.

It gives the term "Ring of Fire" a whole new meaning.:yes:

wow. I love Broon Ale, my first evening at the University of Newcastle I went to the local boozer and overdid it in fine fashion - even without the curry Iwas in the loo for a whole day...

My uncles are Toon Season Ticket holders - I was brought up on the tales of Wor Jackie, spent summer holidays in the Spanish City. I love GeordieLand

[Mick Wenlock]

Hi Mick, sorry to break in your conversation here. According to CPU you are viewing this thread. Hope I caught you on time.

Excuse me. A friend of yours is in colorado and having a hard time reaching you via tele. since you last spoke (yesterday?).

I tried to send you private email here but it is blocked.

I will log on to XSO request to join page and enter his cell tele so you can reach him.

T.O.

No probs TO - I will call him shortly