Interested in Freezone

[dont_play_nice_]

Hi all.
First of all I'd like to say, I know I'm on an ex Scientologist message board, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway as it is Freezone related....
I'm very interested in Scientology. Something appeals to me about it, and I don't know what. I have visited my local Church, they gave me the hard sell and I did a communications course. I liked the things I discovered and can successfully apply them in my life, which has helped me. A lot of it was just common sense, dressed up with fancy words, admittedly. I did not take auditing or anything like that from them because it was expensive, I'd heard a lot of bad things about Scientology on the net, I didn't want to get involved with anything 'cultish', and I didn't want people to laugh about me or my new found sci-fi beliefs (surely everyone has seen THAT South Park episode?)
Which is where I found out about the Freezone. I like the idea of doing things when I want, without the hefty price tag. But a few things still concern me...
1) Does it work, honestly?
2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?
3) I'm worried about a Purification Rundown. I've heard its very dangerous, and can do things to your liver, brain, whatever. Is it safe, in all of your experience?

I already have a few Scientology books, particularly the Scientology Handbook, Fundamentals of thought, and a new slant on life (these are both dated 1965) I've enjoyed reading them and applying the principles. Can anyone offer any other books that might help me improve?

Is it reasonable to believe in a "Xenu" or would I be wasting my money in the FZ on auditing, only to find out something that sounds like bad sci-fi. Have any of you experienced these Body Thetans?

Yeah, I know Hubbard was a liar and a lunatic at times, but if theres something in it whats the harm in giving it a go?
I dont want to get into anything too deep as I'm new to the subject and would get lost. I just want to know what your experiences are with Scientology, so I'd appreciate it if the Freezoners in particular could help me out. I live in the UK.

Thanks guys! :D

[uniquemand]

1) Yes.

2) According to LRH, being gay puts you at 1.1 on the tonescale, per Science of Survival, and it is considered an aberration according to Hubbard and those who take his words for gospel. Some in the FZ may have differing opinions about that. You can find auditors who don't think that way. Just ask them

3) I feel that the Purif is safe, so long as it is done with a doctor's okay and supervision. Otherwise, you're on your own.

___________________________________________

That said, realized that Scientology is a system whose purpose is to give you "wins" while alloying your purposes with the Church's, and then getting all of your money, and all the labor they can get out of you, for purposes of making more scientologists. You can achieve whatever you are looking for from Scientology in other systems of thought, such as Idenics, Hypnotherapy, or Metapsychology.

However, if you are bound and determined, you should be fine in the FZ, just guard your cash and don't say we didn't tell you so.

The upper level bullshit about Xenu and BTs will be sold to you in either location. It is integral to formal scientology. However, you can enjoy the lower bridge gains, and bail when you hit the BS anytime in the FZ, whereas in the Church, you WILL be penalized on leaving.

[Martini]

Hi

Your post was fascinating.

Before I answer all of your questions from my perspective (I'm highly trained in the tech), I have one simple question for you:

If Scientology really did what it said it could, what difficulty would you be trying to handle?

As regards homosexuality, it IS viewed as an abberration, not something you have in your genes. Over time, the handling for this has changed, just like society. However, there is no SET way it is handled - a lot of it depends on who your auditor and C/S (case supervisor) is.

A good C/S would NOT try to target this in your auditing, and would just proceed along normal lines, auditing you just as he would anyone else. He would note it as an abberation and it might get included in various ways, but you would not be taken off the main highway to do it. As an example, some processes ask for people in your life you have known. Some are specific types of questions. The auditor might ask if you have ever known a homosexual before you became one, and look for any assumption of his identity or wish to be like him. It would not be expected you go straight. We had a homosexual on staff when I was in (he later decided to go straight, announcing it in an announcement on the staff message board!)

[Voltaire's Child]

Terril Park would be your best contact. He posts here and you may want to PM him.

[dont_play_nice_]

If it could deliver what it promised, I'd like to be more happy and confident, I'd like to be able to get my ideas across, think clearly, be successful, everything like that really. I'm not interested in all that anti-psychiatry stuff, criminon, none of that. I just want to improve, and wanted peoples input, so thanks for replying guys.

I've read about all the tone 1.1 stuff - not nice, I spoke to a guy in the Church who told me it was 'not a problem' -which I didn't truly believe. I'd like to go somewhere where ideas change over time, not where every word Hubbard said is taken as gospel, which is why the Freezone fascinates me.

One freezoner once told me that saying Scientology is anti-gay is like saying Mathematics is pro-socialist, the two don't really mix, and that Scientology is a body of philosophical ideas. He also told me that LRH once said that there are 2 components of Scientology - 1) The Tech, and 2) His opinion ("and boy do I have some wild opinions!") I liked the way the FZ'er put it - but wether is tue is something I'll discover I guess.

I've already been kicked out of a religion for being gay, maybe I'm just attracted to 'cults' in my personality, I don't know.

[Dulloldfart]

Terril Park would be your best contact. He posts here and you may want to PM him.

Considering the title of the thread it is conceivable he might PM you first. :)

Paul

[Voltaire's Child]

If it could deliver what it promised, I'd like to be more happy and confident, I'd like to be able to get my ideas across, think clearly, be successful, everything like that really. I'm not interested in all that anti-psychiatry stuff, criminon, none of that. I just want to improve, and wanted peoples input, so thanks for replying guys.

I've read about all the tone 1.1 stuff - not nice, I spoke to a guy in the Church who told me it was 'not a problem' -which I didn't truly believe. I'd like to go somewhere where ideas change over time, not where every word Hubbard said is taken as gospel, which is why the Freezone fascinates me.

One freezoner once told me that saying Scientology is anti-gay is like saying Mathematics is pro-socialist, the two don't really mix, and that Scientology is a body of philosophical ideas. He also told me that LRH once said that there are 2 components of Scientology - 1) The Tech, and 2) His opinion ("and boy do I have some wild opinions!") I liked the way the FZ'er put it - but wether is tue is something I'll discover I guess.

I've already been kicked out of a religion for being gay, maybe I'm just attracted to 'cults' in my personality, I don't know.



The Freezone isn't a cult. Or a church. Or any organization, really. It's a loose knit grass roots collection of individual practitioners so really, all you'd end up addressing as far as how do they feel is - where would you locate an individual practitioner in your area and how would that go once you found him or her? Not all FZ practitioners are the same. Some are purists, some aren't. I also suspect that there are degrees of hidebound mindset. Terril Park is the "ED" and acts as coordinator and can help you find a practitioner, should you decide to do so.

Do they deliver what's promised? Yes and no. They don't make the rash promises CofS does. But they also do not and cannot deliver the things that Hubbard promised. I think Scn auditing is excellent. I think the claims that it's hypnotic, that it doesn't do anything, that it does do things but is "dangerous", that it's the same as talking to a good friend are all total and utter b.s. But does it do what Hubbard said? No!!! As time went on, his promises became more and more grandiose and exaggerated. But have I seen auditing induce and create positive changes in individuals? Real marked ones? Yes, I have.


Personally, if I had a friend who was interested in doing Scn outside CofS, I would recommend that he or she do some reading and I'd point out that there are two very good books that contain auditing processes a person can do on HIM OR HERSELF in the privacy of his or her own home. I would recommend that those books be purchased USED on line and NOT from CofS- because their mailing lists and prices and constant harassing phone calls are INSANE.

The two books are

handbook for preclears

Self Analysis

[Mark A. Baker]

Hi all.
First of all I'd like to say, I know I'm on an ex Scientologist message board, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway as it is Freezone related....
I'm very interested in Scientology. Something appeals to me about it, and I don't know what. I have visited my local Church, they gave me the hard sell and I did a communications course. I liked the things I discovered and can successfully apply them in my life, which has helped me. A lot of it was just common sense, dressed up with fancy words, admittedly. I did not take auditing or anything like that from them because it was expensive, I'd heard a lot of bad things about Scientology on the net, I didn't want to get involved with anything 'cultish', and I didn't want people to laugh about me or my new found sci-fi beliefs (surely everyone has seen THAT South Park episode?)
Which is where I found out about the Freezone. I like the idea of doing things when I want, without the hefty price tag. But a few things still concern me...
1) Does it work, honestly?
2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?
3) I'm worried about a Purification Rundown. I've heard its very dangerous, and can do things to your liver, brain, whatever. Is it safe, in all of your experience?

I already have a few Scientology books, particularly the Scientology Handbook, Fundamentals of thought, and a new slant on life (these are both dated 1965) I've enjoyed reading them and applying the principles. Can anyone offer any other books that might help me improve?

Is it reasonable to believe in a "Xenu" or would I be wasting my money in the FZ on auditing, only to find out something that sounds like bad sci-fi. Have any of you experienced these Body Thetans?

Yeah, I know Hubbard was a liar and a lunatic at times, but if theres something in it whats the harm in giving it a go?
I dont want to get into anything too deep as I'm new to the subject and would get lost. I just want to know what your experiences are with Scientology, so I'd appreciate it if the Freezoners in particular could help me out. I live in the UK.

Thanks guys! :D


First the disclaimer, I'm a freezoner and I like scientology too! :)


1. Yes it works. Honestly. Each persons experience is different, not surprising as we ARE all unique. Nevertheless when scientology is applied correctly individuals can achieve remarkable insights for themselves and personal gains. However, the emphasis in scientology is on SPIRITUAL enhancement and increased understanding. Persons seeking "magic powers" only are often disappointed by the reality of scientology's benefits.


2. Being gay is not a problem unless YOU consider it to be one. IF you want to address the "problem I have with being gay" then scientology can be useful to that purpose. It is not by any means a requisite to going up the bridge. The Co$ anti-gay stuff stems principally from LRH's personal prejudices (he grew up a hundred years ago in a different world). His prejudices were reflective of HIS PROBLEMS. :coolwink:

Scientology in the freezone is not out to "cure gays". They aren't sick and don't need a cure. That said, there are SOME freezoners, not many, who "have a problem" with "being gay". That is THEIR problem, it often stems from too much "agreement with Ron". The solution is: don't work with people with whom you are not personally comfortable working. :)


3. The Purification Rundown can be stressful to a person depending on the physical condition of their body. It should NEVER be undertaken except with a physician's okay. I did not have a problem with the Purif when I did mine (26 years back or so) but then I have a fairly robust physical body. I've known many others, not particularly robust who nonetheless successfully completed the Purif. It is most useful for people whose bodies are currently influenced by drugs & chemicals to which they have been exposed in their lives. It is not a barrier to auditing but for "drug cases" can be very helpful in improving the effectiveness of more subjective forms of auditing.


By all means check out any freezone individuals with whom you are considering doing services. You should NEVER do services with people with whom you are not personally comfortable working.

You might want to ask around on the yahoogroup FreezoneOrg (an open chat board for freezoners & friends) to see if there is someone in your general area who you might wish to work with.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ FreezoneOrg/

Also Terril Park (aka BB) helps people connect with auditors in the freezone internationally. He is also the list owner for FreezoneOrg. Feel free to pm him here on ESMB or at FreezoneOrg.


Mark A. Baker

[Martini]

If it could deliver what it promised, I'd like to be more happy and confident, I'd like to be able to get my ideas across, think clearly, be successful, everything like that really. I'm not interested in all that anti-psychiatry stuff, criminon, none of that. I just want to improve, and wanted peoples input, so thanks for replying guys.

The tech can deliver that to you. I highly recommend it.



I've read about all the tone 1.1 stuff - not nice, I spoke to a guy in the Church who told me it was 'not a problem' -which I didn't truly believe. I'd like to go somewhere where ideas change over time, not where every word Hubbard said is taken as gospel, which is why the Freezone fascinates me.

If you can find a good auditor (Terril can help you), I would recommend the Freezone.




One freezoner once told me that saying Scientology is anti-gay is like saying Mathematics is pro-socialist, the two don't really mix, and that Scientology is a body of philosophical ideas. He also told me that LRH once said that there are 2 components of Scientology - 1) The Tech, and 2) His opinion ("and boy do I have some wild opinions!") I liked the way the FZ'er put it - but wether is tue is something I'll discover I guess.

I've already been kicked out of a religion for being gay, maybe I'm just attracted to 'cults' in my personality, I don't know.

To answer your original questions:

1) Yes
2) Covered
3) Yes. I've supervised hundreds of purifs, and never had a bad experience. Get a medical check-up before you start it, and have it supervised; and do it with someone else.

[dont_play_nice_]

Thanks for all your replies so far. I really appreciate it :-)
What are the Freezones take on psychology and psychiatry? A few critical websites out there about people killing their families because they didn't have their psychiatric drugs etc have scared me off...
sorry for all the questions, i just find it such a fascinating subject

[Voltaire's Child]

If you deal with purists, they won't want you to have any connection with psychology or psychiatry. Non purists would be a different thing all together. So that's one of the reasons...doing some self auditing from Self Analysis or Handbook for Preclears might be a great way for you to start out.

[dont_play_nice_]

Thats cool, thanks, I just wanted to know what all the fuss was about and where it all comes from.

[Voltaire's Child]

When I first got into posting on critical forums, people used to tell me that they didn't care what I believed -it was membership in a criminal cult (CofS) that they objected to. Then, when I left CofS but still stayed interested in Scn, I got way way more flak (including accusations of working for CofS. Really really dumb!) from some ex members and some critics than I did when I was in CofS.

As time went on, I saw more and more posts and threads on forums that inveighed against the Freezone. Some of those were from exes who don't want to see ANY Scn practiced anywhere because it reminds them of painful memories. Some are from people who think that the "tech" is harmful and who don't think anyone should do any of it. To me, that's just a lack of differentiation- ideas are individual things and don't have to be packaged in neat little bundles. But some Scn'ists AND some critics don't see it that way.

I've now been on critical forums and have had FZ and critic friends for 10 years. As CofS wanes and the FZ "waxes", so to speak, I see more and more anti FZ posts and threads. I've read just about every single one. They tend to be illogical and jingoist. CofS does not have a monopoly on having "thought police".

[Martini]

When I first got into posting on critical forums, people used to tell me that they didn't care what I believed -it was membership in a criminal cult (CofS) that they objected to. Then, when I left CofS but still stayed interested in Scn, I got way way more flak (including accusations of working for CofS. Really really dumb!) from some ex members and some critics than I did when I was in CofS.

As time went on, I saw more and more posts and threads on forums that inveighed against the Freezone. Some of those were from exes who don't want to see ANY Scn practiced anywhere because it reminds them of painful memories. Some are from people who think that the "tech" is harmful and who don't think anyone should do any of it. To me, that's just a lack of differentiation- ideas are individual things and don't have to be packaged in neat little bundles. But some Scn'ists AND some critics don't see it that way.

I've now been on critical forums and have had FZ and critic friends for 10 years. As CofS wanes and the FZ "waxes", so to speak, I see more and more anti FZ posts and threads. I've read just about every single one. They tend to be illogical and jingoist. CofS does not have a monopoly on having "thought police".

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :yes: :surf: :rickroll:

[uniquemand]

Where the FZ is a recapitulation of the Church, with differing personnel, the same problems will exist (and do exist). Where it is free inquiry by intelligent people, in either location, there is no problem.

In or out, cultists need to be exposed to Sunlight (tm).

[Lemuria]

Well, OP, I'm also interested in the Freezone. I've been going through this weird depression and anxiety phase for a few years now, and I went to a therapist and took some meds, but it didn't solve my problem and my therapist would fidget too much, which would really exascerbate my problem. I tried Paul's Robot and it made me feel real good, and I also recently read the beginning of Self-Analysis and did the first drill, and my depression and anxiety evaporated that evening. But I definitely want a one-on-one session from the Freezone, I never had real auditing, and I'm willing to permanently undo this problem. As somebody explained it to me, I'm stuck in an incident and a chronic tone level, because I'm always thinking about these things that happened to me a few years ago, that made me question my self-worth. I couldn't relate to what it feels like to not be in present time 8 years ago in CoS, but having experienced the pretty messed up stuff in these later years of my life, I totally know what that feels like as with other people who are going through the same thing

Terril, if you reading this, I'd like to know if you can hook me up with somebody down here in California.

[Terril park]

Hi all.
First of all I'd like to say, I know I'm on an ex Scientologist message board, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway as it is Freezone related....
I'm very interested in Scientology. Something appeals to me about it, and I don't know what. I have visited my local Church, they gave me the hard sell and I did a communications course. I liked the things I discovered and can successfully apply them in my life, which has helped me. A lot of it was just common sense, dressed up with fancy words, admittedly. I did not take auditing or anything like that from them because it was expensive, I'd heard a lot of bad things about Scientology on the net, I didn't want to get involved with anything 'cultish', and I didn't want people to laugh about me or my new found sci-fi beliefs (surely everyone has seen THAT South Park episode?)
Which is where I found out about the Freezone. I like the idea of doing things when I want, without the hefty price tag. But a few things still concern me...
1) Does it work, honestly?
2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?
3) I'm worried about a Purification Rundown. I've heard its very dangerous, and can do things to your liver, brain, whatever. Is it safe, in all of your experience?

I already have a few Scientology books, particularly the Scientology Handbook, Fundamentals of thought, and a new slant on life (these are both dated 1965) I've enjoyed reading them and applying the principles. Can anyone offer any other books that might help me improve?

Is it reasonable to believe in a "Xenu" or would I be wasting my money in the FZ on auditing, only to find out something that sounds like bad sci-fi. Have any of you experienced these Body Thetans?

Yeah, I know Hubbard was a liar and a lunatic at times, but if theres something in it whats the harm in giving it a go?
I dont want to get into anything too deep as I'm new to the subject and would get lost. I just want to know what your experiences are with Scientology, so I'd appreciate it if the Freezoners in particular could help me out. I live in the UK.

Thanks guys! :D

Just wrote a long reply to you which somehow got nuked. OK... Could be my hopeless grasp of IT. I'm inclined to believe its Emma in a Pink Frenzy.
That's my own original conspiracy theory.

You heard it here first!

As proof look at that ridiculous pink hat on my Avatar!

Anyway, you're welcome to phone me at 0208-864-4940 london.
I can call you back for free, and even know an auditor not so far.

[Voltaire's Child]

Where the FZ is a recapitulation of the Church, with differing personnel, the same problems will exist (and do exist). Where it is free inquiry by intelligent people, in either location, there is no problem.

In or out, cultists need to be exposed to Sunlight (tm).


None of the abuses so common in CofS are occurring in the FZ but that doesn't stop the accusations.

[Smitty]

Where the FZ is a recapitulation of the Church, with differing personnel, the same problems will exist (and do exist). Where it is free inquiry by intelligent people, in either location, there is no problem.
In or out, cultists need to be exposed to Sunlight (tm).

There are no FZ groups that have the resources at this time to commit the gross abuses that the cofs does. An organization that applies Hubbard's policies and tech 100% is a totalitarian organization. The cofs became totalitarian early in its history. It could happen to a FZ group in the future, should one ever reach a similar scale of size to the cofs.
I would steer clear of any scientology and I recommend practices in the Independent Field if there is something you want to improve in your life.

[degraded being]

Hi all.
First of all I'd like to say, I know I'm on an ex Scientologist message board, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway as it is Freezone related....
I'm very interested in Scientology. Something appeals to me about it, and I don't know what. I have visited my local Church, they gave me the hard sell and I did a communications course. I liked the things I discovered and can successfully apply them in my life, which has helped me. A lot of it was just common sense, dressed up with fancy words, admittedly. I did not take auditing or anything like that from them because it was expensive, I'd heard a lot of bad things about Scientology on the net, I didn't want to get involved with anything 'cultish', and I didn't want people to laugh about me or my new found sci-fi beliefs (surely everyone has seen THAT South Park episode?)
Which is where I found out about the Freezone. I like the idea of doing things when I want, without the hefty price tag. But a few things still concern me...
1) Does it work, honestly?
2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?
3) I'm worried about a Purification Rundown. I've heard its very dangerous, and can do things to your liver, brain, whatever. Is it safe, in all of your experience?

I already have a few Scientology books, particularly the Scientology Handbook, Fundamentals of thought, and a new slant on life (these are both dated 1965) I've enjoyed reading them and applying the principles. Can anyone offer any other books that might help me improve?

Is it reasonable to believe in a "Xenu" or would I be wasting my money in the FZ on auditing, only to find out something that sounds like bad sci-fi. Have any of you experienced these Body Thetans?

Yeah, I know Hubbard was a liar and a lunatic at times, but if theres something in it whats the harm in giving it a go?
I dont want to get into anything too deep as I'm new to the subject and would get lost. I just want to know what your experiences are with Scientology, so I'd appreciate it if the Freezoners in particular could help me out. I live in the UK.

Thanks guys! :D

You express the same sentiments that soo many of our recent new members have expressed. How spooky.

[Free to shine]

You express the same sentiments that soo many of our recent new members have expressed. How spooky.

Hmmm... sort of sounds like a script doesn't it?

[degraded being]

Hmmm... sort of sounds like a script doesn't it?

Oh so boring! Haven't they got anyone with a bit of originality? :no:

[Martini]

Hmmm... sort of sounds like a script doesn't it?

please cease the covert digs on people newly posting on this board who have an interest in the tech. Their interest is not surprising AT ALL.

[Martini]

Oh so boring! Haven't they got anyone with a bit of originality? :no:

it's completely unacceptable to "welcome" new posters in this fashion. You should apologize to the OP.

I have reported your post.

[KnightVision]

That's Scientology!

The one thing that it DOES produce are people who are certain that the 'tech works'.

Don't ask if they can do anything special with their 'abilities gained' though... unless you want to see a prime example if 'homo stupidus'.

Take a win, you no longer have to think for yourself. :D

[degraded being]

it's completely unacceptable to "welcome" new posters in this fashion. You should apologize to the OP.

I have reported your post.

Actually you may be right. I think that you have consistently diplayed a high level of empathy and consideration for posters on this Board. Also, I respect your high level of training in the Church of Scientology which has resulted in interpersonal skills which are far superior to the norm. So I defer to your judgement. Thank you Matini for bringing my transgression against good conduct to my attention. :yes:

[Smitty]

None of that is needed. Just a respect for the other posters on this board.

Respect cannot be enforced. It has to be earned. Respect is a credit.
We do need tolerance to have a civilization at all. Tolerance is a recognition.

[Voltaire's Child]

Hmmm... sort of sounds like a script doesn't it?


Lots of true believers who are sincere in their beliefs sound similar to one another. I include fervent ex members and other Scn critics and/or skeptics in that- as well as Scn'ists, too, of course.

"There's nothing new under the sun".

[Mark A. Baker]

Lots of true believers who are sincere in their beliefs sound similar to one another. I include fervent ex members and other Scn critics and/or skeptics in that- as well as Scn'ists, too, of course.

"There's nothing new under the sun".


Could you possibly be referring to "The Chorus of the Neighs"? :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
p.s. for the literately challenged, the spelling is intentional.

[Smitty]

Lots of true believers who are sincere in their beliefs sound similar to one another. I include fervent ex members and other Scn critics and/or skeptics in that- as well as Scn'ists, too, of course.

Of course? You make a generalization about three different groups of people.
Have you done a scientific study or have you read one that you have not cited?

[klidov]

You express the same sentiments that soo many of our recent new members have expressed. How spooky.


noticed that too, did you...........?:coolwink:

[Voltaire's Child]

Could you possibly be referring to "The Chorus of the Neighs"? :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
p.s. for the literately challenged, the spelling is intentional.


Jeez, Mark, you were a bit prophetic there, were you not? :D

[Emma]

I've just cleaned up a whole bunch of petty BS on this thread.

For goodness sake, if you want to pull each others pigtails please do it elsewhere.

You CANNOT know by one post how legitimate a poster is. Some people ARE interested in the freezone and if that is just too much for you to bear then I suggest you back away from the keyboard and have a lie down.

[TheSneakster]

Where the FZ is a recapitulation of the Church, with differing personnel, the same problems will exist (and do exist). Where it is free inquiry by intelligent people, in either location, there is no problem.

I agree with you 100% on this thought. :goodjob:



In or out, cultists need to be exposed to Sunlight (tm).

Remember, this also applies to that segment of the $cientology critic community which seems to have evolved into a sort of Anti-Cult Cult, too. :wacko:

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous.

[Smitty]

Remember, this also applies to that segment of the $cientology critic community which seems to have evolved into a sort of Anti-Cult Cult, too.
Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous.

Please document who the leader is and how this alleged cult conforms to all the attributes of a cult.

[dont_play_nice_]

Hey guys- haven't been on lately. I was PM'd by Terril and found an auditor who lived close, but it was still too expensive for me at this time, so I'm just reading some chapters from The Scientology Handbook and that is helping me with certain aspects of my life, and I may skip auditing altogether, or leave it for a later date :)

[uniquemand]

coaudit using ClearBird. find someone who cares, and is willing, and do it. it's really that simple.

[dont_play_nice_]

what is that? i can do it online, right? and finally do i have to pay? I will look into it...thanks

[uniquemand]

No, you don't have to pay. It's an online book that I will post here for you pleabians. http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/index.htm

I can also email copies of this work to anyone who wants one. PM me an email address.

From point of entry to Clear, co-audit ready.

[Terril park]

Hey guys- haven't been on lately. I was PM'd by Terril and found an auditor who lived close, but it was still too expensive for me at this time, so I'm just reading some chapters from The Scientology Handbook and that is helping me with certain aspects of my life, and I may skip auditing altogether, or leave it for a later date :)

Hi,
Understand most students are not flush with money. :)

The person I recommended is not money motivated. Why don't you try and bargain for a lower price? I'm not sending this post to him. :)

The books "Self Analysis" and "Handbook for Preclears" are designed for one to audit oneself using them. They are probably cheap on e-bay or amazon second hand etc.

[Voltaire's Child]

Great suggestion. Those really are good books and you can really make case gain with them.

[Dulloldfart]

If you can tolerate something a little bit different there is always my free online session stuff, delivered to the comfort of your own home. It is remarkably restrained of me not to have mentioned it before. :)

www.paulsrobot.com and elsewhere. You might find the YouTube video linked from that page a good place to start.

Paul

[Human Again]

1) Does it work, honestly?

1. No - Scientology does not work, no one who has had their bridge has gone "clear" or OT. Where are all the "OTs" who can control matter energy space and time when the Victorian fores are taking lives left right and centre? If it worked they would be active helping with real results in such places. Most Scientologists have screwed up lives with families disconnected from one another, huge pressure from their churches to come up with "donnation" either for overpriced courses and talk therapy or straight out "we need to buy a new building and cannot afford it will you help us?" If Scientology worked ( just look at their promises) there would be public bashing down the doors to get in and get those results and theywould have pleny of money to buy buildings, pay staff (which they do not do properly) and promote their services on mainstream media - which they cannot.

Having said that the "common sense" you have found is valable but available elsewhere, at much better prices and without the brainwashing factor that exists in every contact with Scentology and which you would be foolish to discount. You've been reading the board, I assume you have seen Jason Bege's video and the OT VII's who have left.

Look for a coach with a business background - the Action Coaching system has manyof those basic "common sense" tools. I hesitate to suggest it but even Forum has some of the Scn basics without the full brainwashing, There are seminars and books and loads of alternatives.

Basically -There is no "tech" that you cannot find elsewhere in books or seminars




2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?

The Freezone delivers Scientology philosophy as written by Hubbard. Hubbard states gay people are 1.1 or covertly hostile. It is a 1950's bias that people who believe Hubbard was source hold as a truism. You folders will have it notted down that you are abberated on the 2D. It will possible be glossed over and put to the side until you run out of money. At some point you will start being "cured" of your abberation by ethics handlings or case handlings. Some people may appear to accept you but will hold Hubbard's truth as paramount. Assholes.



3) I'm worried about a Purification Rundown. I've heard its very dangerous, and can do things to your liver, brain, whatever. Is it safe, in all of your experience?

I did the purif when I was 13. I had never had any drugs. I clearly has no drugs to flush out - yet they still made me do it- stupid huh? Doctors have stated that this method of releasing drug residuals is suspect and there has certainly been NO scientific research done to test it. I have observed people flipping out on the purif. I cannot say it is dangerous but it has no benefit other than to "qualify" you for scientology services.

If you need someone to talk to , I realise I AM biased, but would be happy to answer questions over skype. PM me if you would like to chat.


Cheers

[Veda]

Bottom post (#4) on the below link has links to the old and new "OT levels," and to some of the "Class 8" lectures.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=204017

The Scientological Onion:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1

[Zinjifar]

If you can tolerate something a little bit different there is always my free online session stuff, delivered to the comfort of your own home. It is remarkably restrained of me not to have mentioned it before. :)

www.paulsrobot.com and elsewhere. You might find the YouTube video linked from that page a good place to start.

Paul

Since I'm about as attracted to 'processing' as I am to Velveeta, I've never done Paul's robo-thangies. But, I've heard good things about them, and, as such things go, I can see them being a lot less problematical than 'other practices'.

Zinj

[Mark A. Baker]

2) I'm gay. Am I wasting my time? Is Scientology/Freezone homophobic, or view my sexuality as a problem or an 'abberation'?

The Freezone delivers Scientology philosophy as written by Hubbard. Hubbard states gay people are 1.1 or covertly hostile. It is a 1950's bias that people who believe Hubbard was source hold as a truism. You folders will have it notted down that you are abberated on the 2D. It will possible be glossed over and put to the side until you run out of money. At some point you will start being "cured" of your abberation by ethics handlings or case handlings. Some people may appear to accept you but will hold Hubbard's truth as paramount. Assholes.


Your data is incorrect. :no:

Quite frankly, although this statement does reflect the views of a very small group of active freezoners, it most certainly does NOT reflect the views of the majority of freezoners with whom I communicate regularly and I'm on the principle english language freezone chat lines.


Mark A. Baker

[Zinjifar]

Your data is incorrect. :no:

Quite frankly, although this statement does reflect the views of a very small group of active freezoners, it most certainly does NOT reflect the views of the majority of freezoners with whom I communicate regularly and I'm on the principle english language freezone chat lines.


Mark A. Baker

Please define 'freezoner', it's not in my non-dinky dictionary :)

Zinj

[Mark A. Baker]

Hey guys- haven't been on lately. I was PM'd by Terril and found an auditor who lived close, but it was still too expensive for me at this time, so I'm just reading some chapters from The Scientology Handbook and that is helping me with certain aspects of my life, and I may skip auditing altogether, or leave it for a later date :)


The two books recommended by Terril are also good places to start. You can get some interesting results just from them.

Clearbird & co-auditing are excellent suggestions. Clearbird is available on-line and as a free download. Co-auditing you can arrange for yourself with a friend, so there need be no charge there. You simply agree to study the materials together then trade-off on auditing each other on those materials.

Your local auditor might be willing to provide supervisory assistance to two or more of you in your co-audits. You might try asking him.

You can also always co-audit book 1, aka DMSMH (the Dianetics book). That is what got the whole thing rolling way back when.


Mark A. Baker

[Human Again]

Your data is incorrect. :no:

Quite frankly, although this statement does reflect the views of a very small group of active freezoners, it most certainly does NOT reflect the views of the majority of freezoners with whom I communicate regularly and I'm on the principle english language freezone chat lines.


Mark A. Baker


Thanks for setting me straight, Mark. Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate? I had understood that they loved LRH and the tech and just hated the church and management.

[Veda]

Thanks for setting me straight, Mark. Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate? I had understood that they loved LRH and the tech and just hated the church and management.

No problem, that's what PR is for:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=107299&postcount=54

About Scientology PR tech:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1911

[Terril park]

Thanks for setting me straight, Mark. Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate? I had understood that they loved LRH and the tech and just hated the church and management.

Thats a reasonably good generalisation.

On the matter of gays being 1.1 there is very little agreement on that in the FZ. In fact LRH probably changed his mind on that point. That book was written in 1952. In the sixties one of his chief research auditors, and the world's first official clear was gay, John McMasters. Later John had some trouble on the gay issue, but that was more about possible problems with blackmail, and this was a time when the perception of their being many enemies of scientology was rampant.

[ULRC/S]

>Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate?<

I have been a FreeZone auditor, trainer and C/S for over 20 years, delivering the whole bridge up to OT16. I met and worked around LRH in '68 on the ship, and studied with Bill Robertson in the 80's after leaving the CoS. I have also studied Sharmanism and use it by itself, or integrate it with auditing at times, when it's different models of understanding behaviour helps.

I take what LRH wrote as tech as tech, and apply it where I have found it useful & workable.

What he wrote as opinion I take as opinion, his opinion, which is no more valid in my mind than any one else's opinion, mine or yours, and subject to proof of workability and value.

Some freezoners are dedicated LRH devotees, who's every word is godlike, others are not. That's what I consider the freezone is about, personal choice.

Regards, Allen

[dont_play_nice_]

Nice responses guys. I'm certain that I'm not a 1.1 on the tone scale. What I am learning, such as using dictionaries to look up misunderstood words and demo kits are helping me with my essays and understanding things. I also have Self Analysis which I plan to use soon, and am considering piutting an ad in the student paper for a twin. Don't know what to expect from it though - as soon as someone heards the word Dianetics, Scientology, or LRH they either scoff or run for the hills! (in my experience talking with friends so far anyway)

[Sharone Stainforth]

I have been a FreeZone auditor, trainer and C/S for over 20 years, delivering the whole bridge up to OT16. I met and worked around LRH in '68 on the ship, and studied with Bill Robertson in the 80's after leaving the CoS. I have also studied Sharmanism and use it by itself, or integrate it with auditing at times, when it's different models of understanding behaviour helps.

Whilst we are on the subject of the Free Zone:

Recently I have been studying Capt. Bill Robertson and I have to say its like listening to my Dad.You listen to this stuff and you wonder "what planet am I on?" Or maybe I should rephrase that.

What planet are they on?

I'll tell you what planet - the fucked up mind planet of Scientology induced insanity.

[Voltaire's Child]

Your data is incorrect. :no:

Quite frankly, although this statement does reflect the views of a very small group of active freezoners, it most certainly does NOT reflect the views of the majority of freezoners with whom I communicate regularly and I'm on the principle english language freezone chat lines.


Mark A. Baker

Right. There are many different ideas in the FZ. They aren't an amorphous lump with an RTC and so on.

[Voltaire's Child]

Thanks for setting me straight, Mark. Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate? I had understood that they loved LRH and the tech and just hated the church and management.

Depends on the person. Some are tech purists, some aren't. Some have the stance that it's all DM who's wrong but quite a few do not feel that way at all and do recognize Hubbard's many failings and have read extensively about his REAL history.

Don't forget- they're heretics, in a manner of speaking. And they have no central committee or RTC so they're free to be indivualistic.

[Mark A. Baker]

Thanks for setting me straight, Mark. Does this mean freezoners do not accept that everyting LRH wrote was accurate? I had understood that they loved LRH and the tech and just hated the church and management.


As others have commented, the simplest way of describing the freezone is that attitudes vary, whether it be about LRH, KSW, standard tech, etc.. A tiny few are "LRH purists". However, most of us rely on our own experience to differentiate between what we have found to be workable versus what is clearly nonsense. :)



Mark A. Baker

[Human Again]

Thanks again guys, for the update on Freezone.

And I hope no one was offended by my earlier assumptions.

OT 16? WOw.

RE:Hubbard changing his mind about gays. What a lazy SOB. I'd use stronger words but...To leave the info in the tech and cause so much heartbreak to the gays who were in and either felt they had to hide it or be ashamed or "fix themselves". George, if you're out there, hugs to you.

[Veda]

When I heard the news about Quentin, I dropped by the "Org" to visit someone I knew in the Guardians Office (This person later went to prison, yet is still in $cientology, and is now on OT 7 or 8). I asked him about Quentin and received a cold blank stare and a few words: Quentin had "made the Tech 'wrong' " and "made Ron 'wrong' " too, by creating a PR flap (bad PR) by being gay and by committing suicide.

Quentin promptly became a "non person." His name became taboo.

Hubbard had seven children. Two had already been officially "erased" (L. Ron Hubbard Jr. and Alexis Hubbard) and now there would be three erased children - they simply no longer existed, along with Hubbard's erased second wife, Sara.

About Quentin:

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/article/41869-the-gay-scientologist-quentin-hubbard-19541976

http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/hubbard1.html

[Mark A. Baker]

Thanks again guys, for the update on Freezone.

And I hope no one was offended by my earlier assumptions.

OT 16? WOw.

RE:Hubbard changing his mind about gays. What a lazy SOB. I'd use stronger words but...To leave the info in the tech and cause so much heartbreak to the gays who were in and either felt they had to hide it or be ashamed or "fix themselves". George, if you're out there, hugs to you.


Personally I think the real "lazy SOBs" were all his little helpers who insisted that LRH must be right because he was LRH! :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker

[Veda]

Personally I think the real "lazy SOBs" were all his little helpers who insisted that LRH must be right because he was LRH! :eyeroll:



You just insulted a lot of good people who gave years of their lives to Scientology, and made the mistake of trusting the sociopath whose Xenu-tech you still promote - wrapped in your slithery manipulative Scientology PR tech. You're one sick puppy, Baker.

[Voltaire's Child]

No, I'm with Mark on this one. That's how cults are perpetuated. By robotic thinking. People can be good and hardworking and still screw up in this regard.

[Veda]

Are you referring to this bit of double talk

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double-talk

expressed by Scientology's court adjudicated pathological liar founder, and Commodore, in the 1972 'HCOB', titled 'Robotism'?

http://www.carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/hcob/hcob-robotism.pdf

Quentin must have had a misunderstood word on that 'HCOB'.

About Quentin:

http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/hubbard1.html

[Voltaire's Child]

Capn Bill was probably way too much into the galactic space opera stuff. But please, don't quote Caroline Letkeman at me...urrgh.