Ex Scientologist Message Board http://www.forum.exscn.net/ Ex Scientologist message and discussion board covering scientology, xenu, entheta, suppressive, xemu, lie, hubbard, dianetics, auditing, emeter, RTC, Int, org, blown, pts en Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:52 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.forum.exscn.net/images/misc/rss.jpg Ex Scientologist Message Board http://www.forum.exscn.net/ OTs on Objectives http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20043&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:14:16 GMT I heard from several people still on lines that OTs have to redo their objectives. Does anyone else have any data on this? Seems to me like a new... I heard from several people still on lines that OTs have to redo their objectives. Does anyone else have any data on this?

Seems to me like a new way to bleed active members of their money, like the time OTs had to do their grades, or do NED.

Miscavige getting new Ideas on how to get more money because no new people are getting in.

What was the motto of the golden age of tech? "Arbitrarys cancelled"?

Seems like more of Miscaviges arbitraries coming in. :eyeroll: ]]> General discussion Ex_SaintHill http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20043 What are Scientology staff really there for? http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20042&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:48:29 GMT This is a subject that came up recently in a staff memories thread. I'd be interested what a wider audience thinks of it.

After hearing many stories about how hard CofS org staff work, on projects that are duly rationalized at the time but in retrospect seem pointless, I started to compare how Scientology staff compares to the paid staff of mainstream religious denominations. There seems to be a striking difference.

Most Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, and I think also most Muslim mosques or Sikh temples, and maybe most other major religions as well, have a sort of similar pattern. For a group of public roughly as large as seems to be served by an Scn org, the mainstream religions will typically have one or two professional staff members with specific training at the university level, who work normal professional hours, work under minimal supervision from any superiors, and are paid at a middle-class level. Beyond this, they will have a sort of core membership of dedicated public, some of whom will serve the institution as volunteers, often under the guidance of the professional staff member. Most of these core members have serious secular careers, and do their religious volunteering on the side; a few may have volunteer charitable or religious activities as the main thing they do with their time. None of these people are paid.

In contrast, the Church of Scientology does not seem to have any staff members with training that is really comparable to a Master's degree, or who are paid anything like a middle class salary. Instead it has a lot more staff who are poorly paid and trained, and in general also very closely but poorly managed.

The conclusion I tentatively draw is that the CofS really has no clergy, and that what its staff (including the Sea Org) represents is not an alternative clergy, but rather, a core membership that is (nominally) paid by the Church, instead of supporting itself with secular careers, and tightly controlled.

If this theory is correct, the true main purpose of org staff is not precisely to serve or promote the Church of Scientology, but rather to BE the Church of Scientology — the stable hard core of adherents that keeps the movement in being, and ensures that any new recruits will have something to join. And the investment in lavish 'Ideal Orgs' is not necessarily to be understood as a recruitment drive to bring in lots more public, but rather as a retention plan to keep the staff in place. A sort of urban alternative to what other cults do when they set up elaborate compounds in remote places and get all their core members to move there.

This guess of mine could of course be wrong, and I welcome other suggestions from people with more knowledge than I have. But the difference between what Scientology does with and for paid staff, and what other religions do, seems pretty striking. I think there ought to be a reason.

And my prejudice is that the reason should not just be incompetence, because I think a truly incompetent organization could not have lasted as long as the CofS already has. I'm not saying that the CofS is competent at what it claims to be doing! But I think it must be competent at something, or it wouldn't have gotten this far. So I think there must be some method to the apparent madness of the way the CofS staffs its orgs, and treats its staff.

What could that method be? Why, really, does the CofS handle staff the way it does? ]]> Evaluating/criticising Scientology Student of Trinity http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20042 Cool things about Scientologists.... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20041&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:56:49 GMT Can't we all just stop nattering for a brief breath in eternity and take a moment to be theta and validate and grant some beingness?

Why Scientologists are so cool....


They work really well in groups.

L. RON HUBBARD
I am Source of everything!

SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, that's so theta, just tell me what to do.

-----a little while later-------

DAVID MISCAVIGE
I am Source of everything!

SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, you too? That's so theta,
just tell me what to do.
]]> General discussion HelluvaHoax! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20041 Arthur C Clark Way More Accurate Than L Ron Hubbard http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20038&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:13:54 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOaZspeSBZU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOaZspeSBZU ]]> Miscellaneous videos Alanzo http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20038 <![CDATA[I think I just erased everyone's BTs !!]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20034&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:06:17 GMT Well I think I postulated them all in 1956 ! Sorry about that. Whoops! Are they all gone now? Love Well I think I postulated them all in 1956 !

Sorry about that.
Whoops!

Are they all gone now?



Love
BR
9th Sept 2010 ]]> Scientology technology Bridge Researcher http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20034 DM Internal Memo Leaked http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20033&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:07:02 GMT http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...cavige-speaks/

Marty's latest blog post includes an internal memo from DM about construction projects in Clearwater.

What I find most interesting is not the actual subject matter, but the fact that it *is* an internal memo, not a carefully-written PR piece. I could be wrong on this, but I assume that it came from JB (John Brousseau). Wasn't there a recent mention in the police report of his having copied files from his computer at Int? There could be loads more such memos.

More please, JB. :)

Paul ]]> General discussion Dulloldfart http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20033 Why Scientology IS the way that it IS. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20032&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:53:01 GMT Sometimes things can get over-complicated by over-thinking them. While walking past an Ideal Org recently, something grabbed and demanded me to... Sometimes things can get over-complicated by over-thinking them.

While walking past an Ideal Org recently, something grabbed and demanded me to look at it.

The slickness of it all.

Shined, buffed and polished to a blinding sheen it was--not just the building but the presentation of the subject down to the slick flat-screen video enlightenment units, glossy posters and bookcovers.

And the ever-present salvation messages, blaring out from everywhere deafeningly certain proclamations of "HAPPINESS" and "FREEDOM".

Except inside the cult it is not happy and it is not free. They don't have any such product to sell or it would certainly be in evidence on the practitioners, customers and staff. Much like visiting an dentist who advertises that he can give you a perfect smile but when he greets you, his mouth is a tragic conglomorate of rotted, discolored jagged teeth punctuated with missing teeth. It's pretty simple to decide at that point--no sale!

But back to the state of Scientology, the mean little money cult of terror-filled vengeance if you don't do exactly what you are told. And fronting this grim assemblage of fraud, deception and lies is the SLICKNESS.

Always the slickness.

The glow-smile registrar. The gleaming wins at graduation for people claiming Clear and OT. The fantastic tales of a new civilization. The wink-wink, all-knowing OT's who say they have it all. And the glorious staff and Sea Org who parade about triumphantly when their personal lives are quite obviously have their personal lives lie in ruins. And the founder and chief commanders behind this dark charade have forever been screamers of endless vulgarities and threats which were carried out vengefully to victims populating six decades.

But the slickness became slicker and slicker. As if by genetic mutation it found ever-more slippery methodologies to avoid being grasped.

And now, at long last:

HOW DID SCIENTOLOGY GET THIS WAY?

The Indies would have it that a solitary bad guy (COG) did it all.

Before the Free Zone Scientology had the story that a solitary bad guy (MAYO) did it all.

And earlier still, Ron told the story of a solitary very bad guy (Xenu) that did it all.

And countless other bad guys, the "Psychs" often topping the list as a perennial favorite.

The answer seems simple.

Whatever grew is what was planted.


The seed grew into what it was supposed to be.

You don't plant a tomato seed only to discover that a giant redwood has grown instead.

And, conversely

You don't plant roses and end up with the dreaded vampire weed, Kudzu, that spreads, uncontrolled, like wildfire and strangles every environment in it's path like lava from a volcano.

Kind of like Scientology, that slick Kudzu.

But if that's what Scientology is (Kudzu) then Ron planted a Kudzu seed.

Because what grew is Kudzu!

I am no longer looking for any other reasons as to why Scientology became what it is today. The answer seems far too simple and obvious.


http://maxshores.com/kudzu/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudzu ]]> General discussion HelluvaHoax! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20032 Ex Scientologists http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20031&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:24:39 GMT Hi, My name is Dean Blair. I was a NOTs C/S and auditor from 1979-1991 at AOLA. I was in Scientology since 1969 when my mom got me interested. I... Hi,

My name is Dean Blair. I was a NOTs C/S and auditor from 1979-1991 at AOLA. I was in Scientology since 1969 when my mom got me interested. I was on staff in Detroit from 1969-1975. I was on staff in Cincinnati from 1975-1977. I joined the SO in 1979 and left in 1991. I would like to have communication with anyone who knew me. I live in Pasadena, CA with my wife and son. I no longer believe that Scientology works and have felt this way since November of 2009 after reading everything I have read and I have read a lot. I feel that most Scientologists are good and have a strong desire to help others. At first as I began reading I considered becoming an "independent" Scientologist as I know a lot of people out there who have done that. However, as I read more and more I found out too much to ever practice Scientology again and thus I am an ex scientologist. So....if you know me and are interested in communicating please drop me a line.

PS If you are working with OSA or are trying to recover me, Fuggedaboutit! ]]> New Member Introductions Dean Blair http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20031 The Bridge through Self Study http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20030&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 03:49:16 GMT * I did post this @ WWP sometime ago and got some balanced responses guys. I did feel that it was appropriate to open this question up to members of... * I did post this @ WWP sometime ago and got some balanced responses guys. I did feel that it was appropriate to open this question up to members of this forum for some more input. Genuinely interested in your thoughts...


Hi Guys,

Hoping to ask a question which receives a fair judgement on these forums.

For a while I have been observing the Scientology debate and I think the work anonymous has done in creating a very uncomfortable world for Scientology is to be commended.

I consider myself someone who appreciates doing their own research and judgement on an issue. I appreciate world religions from a level of curiosity and Scientology has entered my radar so to speak.

I would like to see if there is anyone out there who could provide an answer on if one could experiment with self study and navigate themselves up the 'Bridge'. I wouldn't mind playing with this idea a little bit. I'm sure this will receive a standard question in reply of 'Why would you bother?'. That is a fair enough judgement.

I know there is a supposed order one should do the materials, and because there are many members on these forums which have done a great job at obtaining leaked materials etc. it seems that I will never have to set foot in a creepy org and pay a single $ to the coffers of the greater $cion machine.

Would you recommend to get a copy of the bridge chart and just follow it up?

Maybe I am best posting this directly to a member of the freezone or indys? Just as fair though I thought this might be the most appropriate place to post such a question.

Thanks in advance. ]]> Scientology technology selfstudy http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20030 LAUGHTER SUCKS. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20029&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:32:25 GMT Just kidding.

mm&i ]]> General discussion http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20029 <![CDATA[What's Keeping Scientology Not Working?]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20028&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 01:25:20 GMT When I first left the Sea Org, like many exes I was angry about current management but still loyal to Scn fundamentals. Not having been a tech... When I first left the Sea Org, like many exes I was angry about current management but still loyal to Scn fundamentals. Not having been a tech person, my expertise was in admin. So when I got out, I was hot to show the world how things really should be done – through the implementation of Scientology admin policy.

It didn’t take me long to see that no-one out there really gave a flying fuck about Scientology, never mind its admin. I soon began to see that the admin systems that the so-called wog world had were more workable than Scn admin. Over the years, it got me thinking.

I know there are lots of people out there who believe that Scn tech works. I’m not one of them (though I concede there are bits that are sensible). But it's fine with me for them to believe, and do, whatever works for them. The whole Xenu thing is really not much more weird than the idea that a guy 2000 years ago thought he was a father, son and holy ghost personified, who resurrected himself after three days dead in a cave. Or stranger than the idea of gods who have elephant heads and multiple arms. So I’m not disputing the tech here, even though I’m not that interested in it.

When I look at the angst and anguish Scn has generated, quite a lot of it seems to be related not just to the tech itself but also to the practices of the SO and the orgs. Think about it: brutal, heartless regging and selling with only the stats in mind; stat-push; the lower conditions; the RPF slave camp; fanatical insistence on mindlessly following orders; the insane working conditions in the SO and orgs; forced abortions; family break-ups through forced disconnections; the coldly callous treatment of Scn kids, the sick and the elderly … the list is long.

Though certainly admin practices have their roots in the Scn world view which also has an expression in the tech (oh how I hate that word), in my view they are more harmful than the tech. This is partly because they are enforced over groups rather than individuals. And I think the real world has it right, mostly, where Scientology has it absolutely wrong.

For one thing, its policies are all frozen in time. Since Hubbard is “source” and he knew everything worth knowing anyway, it follows that no new policy is needed. Even though in the years since he wrote that policy the world has changed fundamentally. So ideas of human rights, equal opportunity, the information revolution, privacy regulations, non-sexist language, cultural/ethnic diversity, parental leave, minimum wages, flexible working hours, organisational renewal (to name just a few) just don’t exist in Scn. It’s stuck in the past, in the dear old 50s and 60s. That’s half a century ago!

The Scn theory about a seven-division org board is, to my way of thinking, a crock. Totally arbitrary. Take Div 7, for example. Why would the executive be in its own division alongside all the others when it’s also very obviously on top? Does it report to itself then? In any org structure, the executive sits on top, which is where it operates from. Div 7 is just nonsense to me. And the trouble with this antiquated, fixed seven-division organisational template is that you have to squash anything new into it. Like, where does the IT division sit in a seven-div org?

I’m not an HR expert but it’s interesting to compare real-world HR divisions with any Scn HCO. In the real world, HR divisions are responsible for working conditions, position descriptions, salary rates and payment of salaries, professional/personal development, health and safety (under which issues such as bullying are dealt with), etc. Its Key Performance Indicators aren’t just quantitative but include qualitative indicators such as retention/attrition rates. Every HR I’ve ever known has at some stage or other done a staff satisfaction survey, and improving satisfaction rates is often a KPI. Does this sound like an HCO to you? The name is completely opaque. Its main purpose, as I recall, was to recruit new staff, to handle “ethics cycles” and I think it has a role in keeping policy records. Health and safety? Nup. Staff satisfaction? I don’t think so. Personal and professional development? You’re joking. Staff advocacy? Don’t make me laugh.

Most organisations have a governance as well as management system. So in addition to the organisation’s executive team, there is usually also a board of directors or council of some sort, and a key responsibility of the chair is the appointment (and by implication, removal) of CEOs. It’s a checks-and-balances thing; doesn’t always work, but it often does. Lots of people have pointed out the horrible irony that DM is the chair of the Scn Board while also being its chief executive. Thing is, there is nothing in Scn policy that enables the growth of another position or committee to countermand him. He is, in fact, a dictator. Interestingly, the distinction between governance and management is another situation where Scn policy is entirely silent.

It could be worse. It could be, like the Catholic church, a religion based in its own country with its own laws!

I could go on but won’t. (I also take issue with that whole Product Officer/Org Officer thing, and the roles of Program Managers, the grandiose or euphemistic names of the Divisions, the Admin Scale, and so on.)

Fundamentally, my “aha!” moment is that the Scn admin system is stuck in time. Because Scientology is entirely wrapped in its admin systems, it will therefore remain stuck in a time warp, and no amount of glossy PR can change that. There is no space for creativity, for flexibility, for enabling organic growth in the organisation, no regeneration. The business of HCO is to get in “raw meat” to be pummelled into shape; it is certainly not in the business of being a staff advocate or being a cultivator of staff talent and creativity. Yet in the real world, creativity in management is a very valuable commodity. Ultimately, even if the “tech” was the world’s most innovative spiritual breakthrough (which I doubt), the admin systems of Scn will always restrict it.

Scientology organisational brutality is a function of its world view given effect by its admin policies. It’s this, not the tech, that enables, maybe even encourages, abuse of staff and enforcement of its most anti-human theories and practices.

Hubbard was either very smart or very ignorant. On the one hand he may have foreseen that his policies would be fixed in time, making it impossible for the organisation to grow as the world changed. Therefore it would have to wither, according to his own theories, with someone else mopping up the mess. On the other, he may have been so bewitched by his own PR that he thought his policies would endure forever, given his unique position as the man who knew everything for all time. You choose.

If he were alive and I could be bothered, I’d ask:
• Regarding your policies, who’s got the fixed ideas now, mate?
• You get what you name, right? What have you got now in terms of worldwide Scientology?

There’s a lot of speculation on this Board about who’s next in line after Miscavige. This is about as interesting to me as what Tom Cruise had for lunch last week. But, to whomever wants to run Scn in the future, my advice is: lose the org board and all admin policy and start again. Then, in the interests of truth and honesty, drop the pretence that it’s a religion when it’s only a self-help system. Maybe some of the grandiose ideas will drop away then too.

You might be able to preserve Scientology that way.

Petey ]]> Scientology technology Petey C http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20028 The Human Mind http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20027&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 01:07:55 GMT I have been asked by myself (in some of my private thoughts) 'which are the best books to read about the human mind'?.

I considered researching everything thats ever been written about the human mind before I began posting this post, but then I thought to myself, what the heck, just do it. Lol.

To wit: The human mind is to the spirit, what a human finger is to the hand.

That's it. That's all. Everything else is mere commentary (which commentary is the essence of all books).

Lol.

mm&i

P.S. with nods and winks to Lexmark whom authored a very good post. ]]> General discussion http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20027 Scientology advertising on the Gruen Transfer http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20026&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:22:36 GMT Last night the Gruen Transfer showed a brief Scientology segment, playing its current PR ad and a short excerpt of an internal recruitment video... Last night the Gruen Transfer showed a brief Scientology segment, playing its current PR ad and a short excerpt of an internal recruitment video featuring Tom Cruise. You can catch it here http://www.abc.net.au/tv/gruentransfer/watch.htm.

The Gruen Transfer is a panel show that analyses branding and advertising, and it's often sharp and amusing. Last night's show was about advertising religion and wasn't overly critical about Scn -- in fact it seemed pretty muzzled -- but it was the first time I'd seen the PR ads which I have to admit were pretty glossy and upscale. Will it work? Who knows. It might attract the ignorant.

The Scientology segment is about 5-10 minutes in.

Petey ]]> Media reports Petey C http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20026 The Betrayal of Bob Minton http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20024&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:18:41 GMT WTF, Arnie lerma 'splain plox :unsure:

http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/recog/betrayal.htm

Quote:
In Fall 2001, Deanna Holmes and several other people were busy annoying Bob Minton by publicly deriding him on the alt.religion.scientology news group. This annoyed Minton, and he complained about it to several people. One of those he complained to was Ken Dandar, lawyer for the Lisa McPherson estate in a wrongful death lawsuit against Scientology. Dandar, in turn, told the news group posters that they were annoying Minton, and the negative postings subsequently stopped. This was adequate proof for the Mintons that Dandar had control over the annoying postings. Mintons, as in two of them. Another person Minton told about this was a woman by the name of Therese Minton, his wife.

Years ago, Minton gave Scientology what it needed to stop him from funding anti-Scientology litigation. As long as his wife continued to give him her support, he would continue. Despite many difficulties, Therese stuck with Bob, just so long as he remained a man of principle.

The principles fell apart in February 2002. Dandar told Minton the McPherson case needed more money if it was to continue. Minton hesitated, but finally relented with a check for $300,000. As it turned out, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Mintons, and others by now, suspected that Dandar both had control over those who were disparaging the McPherson estate's benefactor, and that Dandar was mismanaging the McPherson case.

In short, by giving people who publicly reviled him that much money, Minton was both supporting unprincipled behavior and exercising poor judgment in handling the Mintons' money. Therese gave the ultimatum: get the money back or stop the fight. Minton argued but lost. He asked Dandar to return the money, but the lawyer said it had already been spent. That left Bob one path to saving his married life. Seek settlement. He approached Scientology leader Mike Rinder with a heavy heart but was fully resigned to the task at hand.

As a matter of fact, Rinder already had a precondition. Minton would have to make a clean breast of the Lisa McPherson case. Minton was shocked that Rinder knew enough to make this allusion. It turned out Minton had falsified a statement he made for the McPherson case. Minton was to later assert that not only was Ken Dandar privy to his misconduct, but had encouraged him. Rinder, Minton was convinced, had to have had an inside informant and who else, Minton wandered out loud in his testimony, but Patricia Greenway would have means, motive and opportunity to do so.

This brought the millionaire to a realization. If he had not approached Rinder to settle his differences with Scientology, then Scientology would have had the equivalent of blackmail material on him. This would have been especially significant after Scientology settled the McPherson case. Besides the millions he had already given Dandar, the anti-Scientology crusader would have been liable to the cult for millions more. In reality, whatever the McPherson case was settled for would likely have come from Minton's own pocket via Scientology.

Minton breathed a heavy sigh of relief and let Dandar know that he was going to testify against him for Scientology. The suspicions that Dandar was an unprincipled man were soon confirmed. The slanderous campaign against Minton was renewed within days. It started with malicious speculation, and eventually transcended the bounds of common sense almost completely into the realm of the fantastic. When the legal situation demanded the fantastic accusations against Minton come to an end in the United States, responsibility for the false accusations was merely shifted overseas. Within weeks Martin Ottmann came up with an unbelievably distorted list of wrongoing that easily competed with Scientology's earlier allegations against Minton of moneylaundering.
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/recog/betrayal.htm ]]> General discussion AnonKat http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20024 <![CDATA[Sheriff Baca: "Yes to Scientology"]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20023&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:50:00 GMT http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-me...ntology-71488/

Quote:
“No on 19″ Says “Yes” to Scientology

By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday September 8, 2010 7:20 am


The same day Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca became co-chair, with Dianne Feinstein, of the No on 19 campaign, he held a press conference to announce the arrest of a suspect in a triple murder case in West Hollywood.
Baca used the platform — and his role as sheriff — to further the goals of the political campaign by railing against medical marijuana dispensaries. He said that they had been “hijacked by underground drug-dealing criminals” and that “it is no surprise that people are going to get killed … drugs and violence go together.”

Los Angeles Police Chief Charles Beck has disputed Baca’s claim. “Banks are more likely to get robbed than medical marijuana dispensaries,” he told the Daily News in January
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/201...o-scientology/ ]]> Media reports AnonKat http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20023 Hello to all you ex-Scientologists http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20022&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:04:42 GMT I am a new member here, though I have been lurking around for awhile. I've never been a Scientologist, fortunately for me.... However I have always taken a keen interest in Scientology ever since I first knew of it, round about the early 70's. When I read DMSMH it seduced me at first, and then it scared the bejesus out of me.

First off, I want to congratulate y'all for breaking free of that particular spell, because obviously it wasn't easy. Secondly I want to thank everybody I've been reading here as a lurker, because I find the level of discourse to be generally very high, not to mention endlessly amusing.

I take Scientology very seriously. I don't think it is "just another crazy cult" but rather a kind of prototype for socio-political mind control systems in general. Though Scientology itself is probably in irreversible decline, and thankfully so, it came uncomfortably close to realizing Hubbard's diabolically ingenious scheme.

The various discussions here, in addition to exposing Scientological fallacies and thus helping to dismantle the cult, also provide valuable personal insights into the nature and purpose of spirituality in the contemporary world. This from people who have been burned, and burned bad, by one of the most skillful and dangerous frauds ever to have been perpetrated.

ESMB is a priceless resource. Perhaps I can add a little, here and there. ]]> New Member Introductions Painter http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20022 Avatar II http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20021&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:44:57 GMT I'm new at doing this but click on this and enjoy - I hope it works. :D

http://www.youtube.com/v/6dIOw2sffHI ]]> Humorous videos scooter http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20021 The Final Armageddon... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20019&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 03:54:44 GMT ...is upon Scientology as a force in the world, circa 2010 to 2020. Not just the church of Scientology, but the essence of Scientology itself.... ...is upon Scientology as a force in the world, circa 2010 to 2020.

Not just the church of Scientology, but the essence of Scientology itself. Namely the adulteration of Spiritual truths for the benefit of mechanical (egotistical) man.

Ultimately (only) we selfish individuals agreed to and applied the underlying philosophical doctrine of L. Ron Hubbard. With his 'research' into the spiritual nature of mankind. Which research was a farce in the beginning (with his words) and a travesty in the end (with our actions).

Nonetheless I say, long live the spiritual thorns of our being, that the roses may also appear.

mm&i ]]> General discussion http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20019 <![CDATA[my friend's cat (LOL)]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20018&goto=newpost Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:38:21 GMT nevermind I'll bbl ]]> Videos Good twin http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20018 Thank you, Australia http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20013&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:10:00 GMT I would like to thank, from the bottom of my heart, all the Australians who have helped to create this momentous milestone in protecting spiritual... I would like to thank, from the bottom of my heart, all the Australians who have helped to create this momentous milestone in protecting spiritual seekers from the fraud and abuse of cults, and especially, the Cult of Scientology.

If you ever thought that you needed to do something to make up for all your time in Scientology, then you can be very satisfied in the knowledge that you have done your part in righting the wrongs, and in seeing to it that no one else will be harmed.

I believe that what you have done in Australia will resonate around the world.

I am going to personally see to it that it does.

Allen Stanfield ]]> General discussion Alanzo http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20013 Celebrity Center Munich closing down http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20012&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:25:09 GMT Found at WWP. http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/celebrity-center-munich-closing-down-71295/ It seems that the CC in Munich is closed.... Found at WWP. http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-l...ng-down-71295/

It seems that the CC in Munich is closed. There will be a manicure shop instead.

]]> Breaking news sauerlaenderin http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20012 <![CDATA[Sydney Auditor's Day 2010 Raid]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20011&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:57:40 GMT Now is your chance to come out and address old friends of yours who are still in Scn. I'd love to see some more exes show up for this one.

We are having the monthly protest as usual on the 11th of Sept, then going back to the AOSH after a respite in the pub to greet all the Scilons showing up for the event.

Here is the schedule for anyone who wishes to join us.

11:00am - Congregate at Hyde Park (near the War Memorial). This is close to Museum station.

12:00pm - Leave Hyde Park down Oxford St.

12:15pm - Arrive at Crown St. (outside the Colombian).

12:45pm - Depart Oxford St. down Crown St. (Southbound).

1:00pm - Arrive Cnr. Crown St. Foveaux St.

1:20pm - Depart Crown St for Hercules St., Surry Hills.

1:50pm - Leave Hercules St. for Greek St., Glebe.

2:10pm - Arrive Greek St., Glebe.

4:00pm - Protest disperses and it’s pub/cake time.

But wait there’s more. Since the event at ANZO starts at the good ol’ pensioner-friendly time of 6:30pm, we’ll be rocking up at 5:30pm to welcome them into their event. The times for that event are as follows:

5:30pm - Arrive at AOSH ANZO.

7:00pm - Protest Disperses.

Weather forecast is light rain in the morning, sunny in the afternoon with a high of 22 C. Perfect. ]]> Kookaburra http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20011 OT Proceses: Get out of the Comfort Zone? http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20010&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:25:38 GMT OT Proceses: Get out of the Comfort Zone?


I've doing some more messing around :)

I was running an question just now going e/s,e/s,e/s. and my interest was in every little bit of postulate and thought at each level.

a.Think of a time you made a picture (mental image picture)
b.e/s ?

I was investing the age old "battle" between the mind and knowingness with regards to how the mind became the most favoured method of recall and memory when knowingness seems to have almost completely slipped out of use ,(witches,gypsies and traffic wardens/meter maids). Part of the plan was of course personal gain.

I had some nice cogs at each level.(Why make a "flat" picture in the mind, when you can see 'Everything' beautifully with knowingness etc etc)

But I wasn't running "the process" in the way one should. No surprise there then!

First of all I was badgering myself for every thought,consideration and postulate then and just after etc with regards to the mind versus knowingness. This worked as I found times when I decided the mind was "good" and other times when I decided that the only way to remember things was with the mind. Times on the track where I was using both the mind and knowingness and my reasons etc etc etc.
So I was cancelling postulates and erasing pictures!

Secondly and this is my point here:the postulates and whole thing gave cogs at almost every level of e/s,but I didn't stop !
I just kept asking for earlier and got new cogs and fun further down.
I even pushed past not wanting to go on ("I dont want to look at any more pictures") and THEN ran into a cart load of BPC at the next not "needed"and overunning level down.I cleaned this up ironically with another e/s and felt great.
But this level produced the greatest cognitions of the lot!! Because this time I hit some really nice OT bank... and very groovy it was too.
I hesitate to include details here but I want to show the type of thing I got after pushing onwards as compared to the previous run-of-the-mill and more comfortable levels. What actually happened was I had this massive charge on a picture of a very scary moment.It had given me nightmares and was ruining my life.So I ran it one level down as an engram and it blew. But I got to thinking that this didn't feel like the sort of problem I would have that resolved thus and so easily- so I dug around a bit. It turned out they were not my pictures! I had taken them off someone to ease their pain! It was electric! It was their life and a picture isn't just a picture your actually "in someone else's head"!! Then I threw in a bit of knowingness and had a look at some of his life that wasn't in the pictures and the whole thing came together within the theme of the process.Then there was other stuff too as you can imagine.Lovelly.

Soooo
I've had this before with pushing on when normally one 'should' most definately, absolutely, end off with the win....Note: I always stop at VGIs if I can get them :/

I am wondering.
If for Solo OT stuff if we should force ourself down deeper when doing e/s and things?
The "stupid" self help maxims support this:
Go the extra mile
No pain no gain
Get out of your comfort zone.

Maybe for OTs stopping at the most pathetic FN is just a waste of time?
I mean we run something like an out rud and it FNs
Yawn yawn...what's OT about that?
I mean maybe there's something "juicy" hidden in there for an OT out rud?

Does confronting have anything to do with it?
Does a lack of confront conspire to produce the FN and the end of the nasty questions?

Maybe it's forgotten implant postulates "I agree, I will never look at things like this" ...?

Maybe OT BPC has a "mind of it's own" so it doesn't like to be addressed?

Perhaps OT auditing needs an OT viewpoint not a Dianetic viewpoint?
We've been doing it for longer and are further up the Bridge: we can confront more.

Love
BR
7th Sept 2010 ]]> Scientology technology Bridge Researcher http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20010 Confused...Help? http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20009&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 04:11:08 GMT Here's me.

Introduced into Scientology by my parents (as most children are...) did the courses and auditing with no thought when I was younger. As I got older, I was punished/reprimanded for NOT being interested or wanting to do other things, and was rewarded for doing it/interest level. (What do you think I chose?)

Now I'm in full-on confusion and misery in the fact that if I do (and I want to) decide to "leave" or however you want to say, It's going to be HARD. My family will suffer and so will I. I won't be allowed to be friends with my friends anymore and my parent's lives will be affected immensely. I don't even really have anyone I can talk to about it (especially relatively unbiased people.)

I feel like Scientology checks out with a TON of the "cult" points, except the abuse. That part I've NEVER witnessed.

I am confused, lost, afraid, and fucked up right now from all of it. I've got a fucking clear head on my shoulders for the most part. Most people I know find me very observant and intelligent. I have been fed what I am starting to think are lies my entire life and I can't be blamed for this, can I?

Help? (Ps. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY WITH HATE AGAINST SCIENTOLOGY.)
Legitimate help, information, suggestions? Something?

(Pps. Under 18 here, so...still dependent.) ]]> Leaving the Church confusedgurl http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20009 <![CDATA[Today Tonight Tonight? 7 Sept '10]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20008&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:53:47 GMT Watch Today Tonight at 6.30pm Eastern Australian Time, 7th September 2010.
It might be today tonight, it might be "tomorrow tonight" BUT whenever it is, it'll definitely make your night! :D ]]> Media reports Panda Termint http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20008 <![CDATA[Libertarianism - Zinjifar's religion]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20001&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:56:37 GMT Do you like it? Join it! Do you like it?
Join it! ]]> General discussion Vadim Dolgov http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=20001 Teen intimidated by Sea Org thugs http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19997&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:18:20 GMT This was posted on WWP and is a sick story of what bullies the cult can be and how they try to coerce kids into joining the Sea Org. ... This was posted on WWP and is a sick story of what bullies the cult can be and how they try to coerce kids into joining the Sea Org.

http://www.thewhisper.net/forum/blog.php/?p=1035 ]]> Breaking news Miss Penguin http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19997 <![CDATA[He's baaaaa-ack]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19996&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:31:22 GMT Hi sugarplums!

Two great months of crazy old hippie beat poet on the streets of the Haight-Ashbury but now I'm back East. Sorry I couldn't make it to Squirrelfest up in Spokane but the usual cashflow shortfall made the side trip less than expedient. I got a great start on a humongous new project which promises to prove4 historic and as well pertinent to our subject.

I had no computer access and I notice something coming back online. I was on ESMB four or five times a week through the winter and spring and was hunkered down bigtime with the Scn/exScn thing but after two intense months away this is like returning to very foreign and little known country. I'll groove back in on it quickly but it is a sharp reminder both of the profound otherness of CoS and how valuable this board is to former members and especially the newly departed who just don't have anyone else who can listen to what they wish and often need to say. ]]> New Member Introductions Commander Birdsong http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19996 Bahamas drops charges in Travolta extortion case http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19995&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:13:04 GMT From AP
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/390255...medium=twitter

Quote:
NASSAU, Bahamas — A judge in the Bahamas has dropped charges against two people accused of trying to extort money from John Travolta following the death of his teenage son in the island chain.

Prosecutor Neil Braithwaite submitted a motion to dismiss the case Monday at the request of the actor and his family.

Delaney said the case had caused the Travolta family "unbelievable" stress and they wanted to put it behind them.

It comes as a retrial was about to start for two defendants accused of attempting to extort $25 million from Travolta. A mistrial was declared in October after a lawmaker suggested the still-deliberating jury had acquitted one of the suspects.
]]> Media reports skollie http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19995 Internet Recruitment http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19993&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:41:33 GMT I wondered if we underestimate the danger from Internet advertising. This came from a French site. ---Quote--- Jeff protests against... I wondered if we underestimate the danger from Internet advertising. This came from a French site.

Quote:
Jeff protests against Scientology in Paris. He has done so for five years. He is now astonished to find that they are very active on the Web, that they advertise on Facebook. He wonders how this is allowed to happen.

But nothing in French law prevents Scientologists from advertising on the Web. Their use of the internet is thought to be very astute. 'The problem, for Scientology, as for other similar groups, is how to make the first contact with potential clients. The Internet solves this problem. It has replaced pavement stands and is much more effective', said François Belanger, an advocate.

The self-styled Church of Scientology denies that it recruits on-line. "Our presence on the Internet is not aimed at recruitment', explained Francine Bielawski, spokesman of the organisation. We simply wish to explain better the reality of Scientology and to polish up an image which has been tarnished by the media and those who attack us.'

Nevertheless several Scientology sites offer viewers the opportunity to fill in an on-line personality test, whose results serve as the basis for personal development within the cult. That is slightly more than a mere question of image.
How effective is this [very expensive] campaign? ]]> General discussion secretiveoldfag http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19993 Believe it or not Ron is loved worldwide! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19992&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:02:08 GMT Believe it or Not.... Even though a few Scientologists believe, the rest of the world does not. People in the real world (that use real facts... Believe it or Not....

Even though a few Scientologists believe, the rest of the world does not.

People in the real world (that use real facts and real numbers) do not even pay attention to Scientology's frantic hyperbolic fake stats.

Example: According to Bridge Publications, 83 million copies of Dianetics were sold in the forty years after publication. (1. wikipedia 2. Harris, Daniel (July 2, 1989). "Scientology's best seller". New York Post: p. 39.)

Scientology has reduced itself to the punchline of a joke. Scientologists don't notice that everyone is laughing at them--it's not what they believe they see--super theta VVGI's beings, blowing case and line charging. No, fellas, not exactly.
(Hint to Scientologists: Hey, keep working on those Obnosis drills--you ain't there quite yet).

Hmmmmm, let's see......self-proclaimed supernatural beings (Clears & OT's) working for 60 years to save the planet thru dissemination of Ron's books. Just how much impact have they had compared to other booksellers?

Here is the actual list of most published books which Scientology does not even appear on....
Bible: (est.) 2.5 Billion to 6 Billion
Koran: 800 Million
Little Red Book (Mao): 800 Million
Chairman Mao's Poems: 400 Million
Xinhua Dictionary (Chinese): 400 Million
Articles of Mao: 253 Million
A Tale of Two Cities: 200 Million
The Lord of the Rings: 150 Million
Scouting for Boys: 100 Million to 150 Million
Book of Mormon: 150 Million
The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life (Jehovah's Witnesses): 107 Million
The Hobbit: Over 100 Million
Dream of The Red Chamber (紅樓夢): Over 100 Million
On the Three Representations (论三个代表) 100 Million
And Then There Were None: 100 Million
The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe: 85 Million
She: 83 Million
Le Petit Prince: 80 Million
The Da Vinci Code: 80 Million
The Catcher in the Rye: 65 Million
The Alchemist: 65 Million
Steps to Christ: 60 Million
Merriam Websters Collegiate Dictionary: 55 Million
Heidi's Years of Wandering & Learning: 50 Million
The Common Sense Book of Baby Care: 50 Million
Anne of Green Gables: 50 Million
Black Beauty: 50 Million
The Name of the Rose: 50 Million
The Hite Report: 48 Million
Charlotte's Web: 45 Million
The Tale of Peter Rabbit: 45 Million
Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows: 44 Million
Jonathan Livingston Seagull: 40 Million
A Message to Garcia: 40 Million
Roget's Thesaurus: 40 Million
Angels and Demons: 39 Million
Better Homes & Gardens Cook Book: 38 Million
How the Steel Was Tempered (Как закалялась сталь): 36 Million
War and Peace: 36 Million
The Adventures Of Pinocchio: 35 Million
Diary of Ane Frank: 30 Million
What Would Jesus Do? 30 Million
Oxfords Advanced Dictionary: 30 Million
To Kill a Mockingbird: 30 Million
Valley of the Dolls: 30 Million
Gone with the Wind: 30 Million
One Hundreds Years of Solitude: 30 Million
The Purpose Driven Life: 30 Million
The Thorn Birds: 30 Million
Think and Grow Rich: 30 Million
Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book: 30 Million
The Revolt of Mamie Stover: 30 Million
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo: 30 Million
The Very Hungry Caterpillar: 30 Million
The Late Great Planet Earth: 28 Million
Betty Crocker Cookbook: 27 Million
Who Moved My Cheese: 26 Million
The Wind in the Willows: 25 Million
Nineteen Eighty-Four: 25 Million
The Celestine Prophecy: 23 Million
The Godfather: 21 Million
Love Story: 21 Million
Shin Meikai Kokugo Jiten (Japanese Dictionary): 20 Million
Wolf Totem: 20 Million
English Grammar: 20 Million
The Happy Hooker: 20 Million
Jaws: 20 Million
Love You Forever: 20 Million
Sophie's World: 20 Million
The Women's Room: 20 Million
Where the Wild Things Are: 19 Million
The Secret: 19 Million
Fear Of Flying: 18 Million
The Joy of Cooking: 18 Million
Eigo Kihon Tangoshu (Japanese/English vocabulary) 17 Million
Goodnight Moon: 16 Million
Guess How Much I Love You: 15 Million
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: 15 Million
Shogun: 15 Million
Siken Ni Deru Eithango (English vocabulary, Japanese): 15 Million
The Poky Little Puppy: 15 Million
The Pillars of earth: 15 Million
How To Win Friends & Influence People: 15 Million
Perfume: 15 Million
What to Expect When You're Expecting: 15 Million
The Horse Whisperer: 15 Million
The Shadow of the Wind: 15 Million
The Shack: 15 Million
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe: 14 Million
Tuesdays with Morrie: 14 Million
God's Little Acre: 14 Million
Follow Your Heart: 14 Million
The Outsiders: 13 Million
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory: 13 Million
Norwegian Wood: 12 Million
New English-Japanese Dictionary: 12 Million
Peyton Place: 12 Million
Dune: 12 Million
The Plague: 12 Million
No Longer Human: 12 Million
The Naked Ape: 12 Million
Dictionary of Archaisms (旺文社古語辞典): 11 Million
Kojien: 11 Million
The Prophet: 11 Million
The Exorcist: 11 Million
The Gruffalo: 10 Million
Catch-22: 10 Million
Dictionary of the Japanese Language: 10 Million
Eye of the Needle: 10 Million
A Brief History of Time: 10 Million
The Cat in the Hat: 10 Million
The Lovely Bones: 10 Million
Wild Swans: 10 Million
Santa Evita: 10 Million
Key to Practical Persona Care at Home (Japanese): 10 Million
Night: 10 Million
The Kite Runner: 10 Million
Yu Dan's Gain From the Analects (Chinese): 10 Million
The Total Woman: 10 Million
Mein Kampf: 10 Million
The Communist Manifesto: 10 Million
Problems in China's Socialist Economy: 10 Million
What Color Is Your Parachute?: 10 Million
"83 Million Copies" of Dianetics sold.

Yeah, Ron, we believe you. ]]> General discussion HelluvaHoax! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19992 Sparrow - Legal Update #2 http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19991&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:34:40 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIASDeY8Yo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIASDeY8Yo ]]> North America BLiP http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19991 On the Criticism of Religion http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19990&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 00:06:22 GMT The following excellent remarks dealing with the criticism of religion are from an article by Tim Crane appearing on a N.Y. Times blog. ... The following excellent remarks dealing with the criticism of religion are from an article by Tim Crane appearing on a N.Y. Times blog.

Quote:
None of these remarks are intended as being for or against religion. Rather, they are part of an attempt (by an atheist, from the outside) to understand what it is. Those who criticize religion should have an accurate understanding of what it is they are criticizing. But to understand a world view, or a philosophy or system of thought, it is not enough just to understand the propositions it contains. You also have to understand what is central and what is peripheral to the view. Religions do make factual and historical claims, and if these claims are false, then the religions fail. But this dependence on fact does not make religious claims anything like hypotheses in the scientific sense. Hypotheses are not central. Rather, what is central is the commitment to the meaningfulness (and therefore the mystery) of the world.
The whole of the blogpost may be found here: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...d-evidence/?hp


Mark A. Baker ]]> General discussion Mark A. Baker http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19990 A Fatal Flaw? http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19989&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:48:33 GMT There are many dichotomies in the cult’s philosophies but none so ingrained as the “individual is good; group is bad.” It famously runs from KSW... There are many dichotomies in the cult’s philosophies but none so ingrained as the “individual is good; group is bad.”

It famously runs from KSW #1 where only the individual is supposed to be able to come up with anything good and where all the evil in the world comes from the group. But what of Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon, etc. who Hubbard elsewhere labels as “anti-social personalities” and the source of evil everywhere as well? And what of the many great groups in this world that do a wonderful job of helping us all in some way?

It’s something that I’ve never seen discussed in any of the boards that dissect Scientology yet it’s one I feel is key in explaining the inherent flaws in Hubbard’s paradigm of the universe.

For me, KSW #1’s line about “not here to speculate about how I came to rise above the bank” is a key to understanding where Hubbard stood in relation to his fellow human beings. For all his protestations of loving his fellow Man, Hubbard’s words tell of a man who believed that he was far superior to any mere mortal. And thus someone who could only ever rely on himself.

This I believe colours all Hubbards’s attempts at anything resembling an effort to help his fellows. And I believe it’s apparent in ALL of his writings, lectures and movies. Even the “technology” he developed (especially from OT II and above) is designed to separate an individual from any idea that a group has ever helped him before and, by logical extension, all his fellow beings are suspect in the extreme and will only “do him in” if allowed. Only by becoming a Hubbard clone is salvation achievable. Do what Ron would do. Do it exactly as Ron has said. All else will result in disaster, or so Hubbard would have you believe.

The Affirmations uncovered by Jerry Armstrong show that this was in place long before the first clumsy efforts at Dianetics ever surfaced. And Hubbard’s incessant war against “psychs” and “governments” and “police states” (all apparently trying to take over Hubbard’s discoveries for their own nefarious ends) adds to the picture.

But what does this do to the average Scientologist in his everyday world and even in his relationship with the “Church of Scientology?”

It makes him accept ANY problems he personally encounters with the “Church” as a result of the perils of having to rely on a group, even one with all the answers to Life. He KNOWS with an unshakeable certainty that it will all work out right in the end. He expects that injustices will occur to him and everyone else. He expects his group to be savagely persecuted by authorities and media. He knows it will be a struggle just to survive on an everyday basis. And he knows he can rely on no-one and no organization to ever fully save him from spiritual extinction, not even the official organizations of Scientology. It’s all up to him as the individual to get the job done of “salvaging Earth.” Any failures are his and his alone.

Because only an individual can really do anything constructive.

And any group that has that as one of its core beliefs will cannibalise itself eventually, no matter what it does to survive. It can’t help itself. Because its member will never trust each other to do the right thing and help each other.

It is the ultimate police state.

I don't know if this is true or not (I've already had a "vigorous discussion" with my wife over this:D) so please add your thoughts on it.

Also (and far more importantly) can this be used in any way to help get those still "in" to be able to see what's going on? ]]> Evaluating/criticising Scientology scooter http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19989 ANONSPARROW deserves caps. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19988&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:43:32 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIASDeY8Yo ---Quote--- anonsparrow1 | 5 september 2010 Recorded 9/5/10 - Wash DC ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIASDeY8Yo

Quote:
anonsparrow1 | 5 september 2010
Recorded 9/5/10 - Wash DC

..............................

Search my name, Brian Mandigo, for court details here:

https://www.dccourts.gov/pa/

Brians Epic Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/anonsparrow1 :thumbsup: ]]> Breaking news AnonKat http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19988 Great Indications,Attests and Certainty! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19987&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:30:50 GMT Okay..my first posting Great Indications,Attests and Certainty! The purpose of this posting My idea is to get other more able researchers... Okay..my first posting

Great Indications,Attests and Certainty!

The purpose of this posting
My idea is to get other more able researchers something to get their teeth into.
I have a gazillion ideas.

About me
I am
Natural Clear 1979
OT3...just did it again!
and Creation of Human Ability...Ive done LOADS of that.

My "job" in Scn has always been a Bridge Researcher so I have been "squirrelling" for years.
I just re-did OT3 lying on my bed with no e-meter...cos I don't have one and just to see if I could plus I needed it and am impatient.
I can run it when driving waiting at traffic lights now...hehe.
I had got into a mess while looking at every implant I could find and needed a 3 re-do! Oops.

You don't think he had all those ideas on his own do you?
This is consistant. Despite a quick mention of the Vedas and other things at the start in the '50s everything else was published as if he thought of it when some of his writings had plainly been said before.
A totally brilliant,amazing,amazing man but he did have the irritating habit of ocasionally taking other people's stuff and publishing it with his name on the bottom!
John MacMaster(the first Clear) allegedly wrote Grade 1(?) etc.
...and OT3 was pioneered by a really cool couple of sexy brilliant people,in 1956-7...(painfully and at GREAT cost to themselves- you have no effing idea - the other has also reincarnated but may be 'lost') ...and modest they were too.
Anyways finally I have emerged from a real mental hell and am back trying to do something.

Warning Warning Warning
If you do this.
... or start "messing around" with yr e-meter,digging into stuff and especially if you don't use one be aware that one can easily get "massy" and BIs on stuff and go into self-listing in yr daily life.
Take a walk or a locational and promise yrself only do this at certain times you know..Maybe a "This is the session" start and "That's it" or something.

He called it "chewing on the bank".
But he is dead and hasn't remanifested yet.
So nutters like me will try to carry on.
I would say leave it alone-let others screw themselves up!!



Great Indications and Attests!!

See if you agree or like this...

Occassionally you may be troubled by this type of thought
"Am I deluding myself with all this scientology stuff?"

For example:
You KNOW you're a thetan but with all those MEST bodies out there who,bless them, are a bit lost I have found one can loose certainty....especially if one gets a group of them antagonistic towards you or someone you otherwise respect sincerley explains how you are incorrect...or you find yourself otherwise pinned down to a contradicting enforced reality.
This can lead to thoughts of : maybe I am wrong or mad or whatever etc.Not for long perhaps but it might happen to you.

And dont forget thetans are very powerful..It's perhaps possible that they can create their own truth in their own universe which is the opposite or different to ours. I could imagine someone sooo determined that this is the only life and during this lifetime has convinced himself soo strongly that this is totally true that when his body dies he just dissappears as a thetan. Possibly.

I've been messing around indicating things to myself and found them to be VERY powerful.
Even things I felt I KNEW were true but had doubts and even serious doubts about..I've been blow out totally for a week! I even tried indicating complete falsehoods to myself which I dont suggest you do!! It's horribe!!

I suppose it's an evaluation because a false indication would be. The point is these are things you KNOW to be true - you feel it "in your water"..ew !


Think of things you KNOW to be true and
1.(Solo) Indicate them to yourself
1a Ask an auditor to do so in session..etcetc

2 (Solo..if you must) Attest to them on your own if you have to
2a Attest as a pc in the normal way.

What this seems to do is push the bank off a bit more.
And give Certainty.(Hooray).Your Noodle is Fleeting etc


Patter..
1 I'd like to indicate that you are....
2. Do you have any doubts or reservation about attesting to...

Let's go with the basics and pound them in !

Things to indicate...maybe:
a. a thetan
a. then attest...any doubts or reservations that you are a thetan?
a And 99% of you ex-scientologists..Dont look thetan up in the tech dictonary !!! sheesh.
You ruddy well know what a thetan is !! You are one!!


b. I dunno....whatever you want after this!
b. have been around trillions and trillions of years!
b. attest

c. a timeless being exterior to the physical universe
c. attest

d. Validation of past attests maybe
d. a Scientology Clear
d attest
e an OT3 completion..or whatever
e attest
f maybe the native state or theta clear attests you have done..whatever
f then attest to them doing them one at a time.

I have found the indication alone is sort of a like a one-shot rehab.
Bang! I was there!

You will discover that the attest step however isn't like a normal attest because you think
"Wow..NO I dont have any doubts or reservations !! Not any more !!" hehe.

If you get one that doesn't fly towards the more questionable end of your list like
maybe just correct it along the lines of
"The indication was not quite right"
Thus
"I'd like to indicate......that I/you have the potential to...(word it appropriately).
Or
indicate that the indication of so and so was false.The trouble is then you may have to go e/s to clean it up which really is my world...so perhaps don't try anything too ambitious.

But I have found even the most doubtfull ones seem to do something,they almost work.
eg
I'd like to indicate that you can easily read the Akashic record"

I strongly suspect the "almosts" are actually laying down postulates.After all "I am a millionaire!" theoretically should work..right?..Off the subject. I think I've found a way to make postulates REALLY stick using this and something else! More on this later :)

I tried "Cleared Theta Clear" for example which I am not and it just fell flat - finished..
But then I did "a tree" and eeek...I had a wild few moments!!!

The point is after this hopefully after doing a few of these.. your main "concern" will not be "Will I re-incarnate or just die and be dead and buried like Bob in the pub says" haha
Hopefully now there is Certainty.
So NOW you will be wondering whether of not you can run 2 bodies at once or something !!! You will be listening to Bob lecturing away and be thinking "Sheesh he's soooo tall I wonder what having a body like that is like nowadays"..."Ya, low doorways, he prolly bangs his head all the time" giggle.

Finally
Don't be scared of your own bank. No no no no no!
As a friend of mine once said
"Alcoholism [the addiction] is probably just creating something bigger than yourself"
So
Don't create ie imagine/postulate that your bank is bigger or stronger than you ..cos guess what? It probably will be!!

...That's a good one actually...indicate that you are much stronger than your bank or case.Play around with the wording to your own satisfaction.

Any feedback?


Love
Bridge Researcher
5th September 2010
If this does really work well for people purleeez dont claim it as yr own.There is the Akashic record you know.Just go ahead and use it. ]]> Scientology technology Bridge Researcher http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19987 If DM would retire... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19986&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 17:59:59 GMT Who do you think would replace him and would that be good or bad for SCN? Is Greg Wilhere the next COB? Some of the Indies posted that his wife... Who do you think would replace him and would that be good or bad for SCN?

Is Greg Wilhere the next COB? Some of the Indies posted that his wife Sue said that David Miscavige *is* Scientology, which did upset them quite a bit. ]]> General discussion CarpeDiem http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19986 Marty Tries to be fair? http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19985&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:41:39 GMT Marty's book review on Counterfit Dreams:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...erson-hawkins/ ]]> General discussion GreyWolf http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19985 Desteni Productions Update...... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19984&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 05:44:04 GMT ---Quote (Originally by Andrea)--- fascinating how you guys from these cult forums make stuff up to entertain yourselves and your fear based beliefe...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea (Post 211292)
fascinating how you guys from these cult forums make stuff up to entertain yourselves and your fear based beliefe systems. I live and work here at the farm. You have not been to the farm, yet you listen to dribble from disgruntled people and then add your own opinions and post it as fact. So questions are welcome. We fund our own research, but have a donation section on the web site for people who would like to support our research.

We offer working holidays for people off the forum. So you say you are afraid so.. this is a cult. Whuhahahaha how the hell did you come to that conslusion? Sounds to me then that all of society including you and your friends and social structures are cults. Money is the cause off millions being killed and brainwashed a year. family and marriage constructs create control within individuals.

I would say that the world is in the state it is because people exist merely as fear based opinions instead of actual experienced, practical, self directed living. I mean you can comment all you like but here I am on your forum as an actual example of you guys talking complete crap because you can.

Questions: administrator@desteni.co.za
Andrea
I remember starting the original thread about Desteni Productions ??? Cult ??? way back in July of 2008. I also remember being very disturbed by all the videos these people were putting up on YouTube where they were channeling Hitler and L Ron Hubbard. And with good reason..... They're definitely growing and extending their tentacles, so to speak. And sadly their strategy is working.

I do remember they defended themselves quite adamantly in several forums stating that their information was free and they were self-supporting, only asking for donations. Well, that has changed, my friends as we all knew it would. It ain't free anymore. You have to pay for courses now BUT you can still make donations.... http://bernardpoolman.org/SRA/

And WOW, look at this page - http://www.desteni-money.net/

They're also doing some more pretty radical things like encouraging people to shave their heads to save the earth http://www.desteni-ranch.net/index1.htm. This page sends you to videos encouraging people to do their part to save the world by shaving your head so you won't use shampoo and conditioner that contain toxins. An old cult trick - a shaved head, especially females, creates isolation by social disconnection. It was really weird to see all these people from around the world posting photos of their shaved heads! :omg:

In July 2010, they posted in their forum that they have the opportunity to buy the property right next to the farm they have now (South Africa) in the next 60 days. They've asked all their members to donate so they can buy it ...... and they are! Members/Followers are selling their own possessions in order to do this. Read for yourself. http://desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=17661 :bigcry: This is seriously disturbing. :bigcry: Several of the posts make mention of having to save to buy courses but they think they can get more money to help buy the property. :omg: Sound familiar?? It appears they have a monthly payment plan.

Bernard Poolman is going to be the next L Ron Hubbard or he's trying to be. ]]> Cults in general NeverMe http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19984 Numb. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19983&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 04:51:08 GMT This about sums it up on how it felt to be a scn (esp. for me as a staff member) regarding anything that got in my way from being the best staff I... This about sums it up on how it felt to be a scn (esp. for me as a staff member) regarding anything that got in my way from being the best staff I could be, or anything too emotional, etc.

And to top it off, the vid reminds me of one going through an intense bullbaiting drill for their Pro TR's or something! :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2lbiS1fris

Don't move
Don't talk out of time
Don't think
Don't worry
Everything's just fine
Just fine

Don't grab
Don't clutch
Don't hope for too much
Don't breathe
Don't achieve
Or grieve without leave

Don't check
Just balance on the fence
Don't answer
Don't ask
Don't try and make sense

Don't whisper
Don't talk
Don't run if you can walk
Don't cheat, compete
Don't miss the one beat

Don't travel by train
Don't eat
Don't spill
Don't piss in the drain
Don't make a will

Don't fill out any forms
Don't compensate
Don't cower
Don't crawl
Don't come around late
Don't hover at the gate

Don't take it on board
Don't fall on your sword
Just play another chord
If you feel you're getting bored
I feel numb
I feel numb
Too much is not enough
I feel numb
Don't change your brand Gimme what you got
Don't listen to the band
Don't gape Gimme what I don't get
Don't ape
Don't change your shape Gimme some more
Have another grape
Too much is not enough
I feel numb
I feel numb
Gimme some more
A piece of me, baby
I feel numb
Don't plead
Don't bridle
Don't shackle
Don't grind Gimme some more
Don't curve
Don't swerve I feel numb
Lie, die, serve Gimme some more
Don't theorize, realise, polarise I feel numb
Chance, dance,dismiss, apologise Gimme what you got
Gimme what I don't get
Gimme what you got
Too much is not enough
Don't spy I feel numb
Don't lie
Don't try
Imply
Detain
Explain
Start again I feel numb
I feel numb
Don't triumph
Don't coax
Don't cling
Don't hoax
Don't freak
Peak
Don't leak
Don't speak I feel numb
I feel numb
Don't project
Don't connect
Protect
Don't expect
Suggest
I feel numb
Don't project
Don't connect
Protect
Don't expect
Suggest
I feel numb
Don't struggle
Don't jerk
Don't collar
Don't work
Don't wish
Don't fish
Don't teach
Don't reach
I feel numb
Don't borrow Too much is not enough
Don't break I feel numb
Don't fence
Don't steal
Don't pass
Don't press
Don't pry
Don't feel
Gimme some more
Don't touch I feel numb
Don't dive
Don't suffer
Don't rhyme
Don't fantasize
Don't rise
Don't lie
I feel numb
Don't project
Don't connect
Protect I feel numb
Don't expect
Suggest

Don't project
Don't connect
Protect I feel numb
Don't expect
Suggest

I feel numb ]]> Music Videos Wisened One http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19983 Kyle Brennan Action Fund http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19982&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 03:44:23 GMT _CROSS-POSTED FROM WWP_: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/1316989-post192/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------... CROSS-POSTED FROM WWP:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/1316989-post192/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Thread:Judge denies Motions to Dismiss Kyle Brennan Complaint


51 Minutes Ago

chuckbeatty77
Member

Location: Pittsburgh call after 9pm east coast time 412-260-1170


Re: Judge denies Motions to Dismiss Kyle Brennan Complaint
Kyle Brennan Action Fund

Ken Dandar needs either:

$10 from 500 people
$20 from 250 people
$100 from 50 people
any combination of donations that add up to $5,000.00

He needs it to pay for transcripts he needs to buy from the Florida court system for Dandar's trial preps.

All of these court transcript copies that Dandar needs cost money. He estimates about 5 Gs.

I think later on, paying for the witnesses who will help Dandar in the case, money will be needed to pay their flights to Florida and living expenses for the time of the trial.

If 500 people donated $10 each, that'd do it for now.

Kyle Brennan Action Fund ]]> Breaking news Type4_PTS http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19982 <![CDATA[Good Twin's Cafe]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19981&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 23:39:54 GMT Today I was visited by a couple of exes. I'm jus' sayin', there's nothin better.

Love you guys!!!!!!!

:smoochy: ]]> General discussion Good twin http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19981 IDiot vs. EGOtist http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19980&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 22:56:51 GMT LRH! Both? Hmmm. LRH!

Both?

Hmmm. ]]> L Ron Hubbard Mest Lover http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19980 Pro-LRH tech community http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19979&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:31:33 GMT http://lrhtech.hostoi.com/index.php?...aa023436586b6&

Quote:
I just created this board so let me make a brief introduction.

My name is John Nunez. I am a Class VI Auditor and Case Supervisor. I reside in Sacramento, CA. I am a firm supporter of LRH tech and my intention with this forum is to create a community that can have that as a common reality, rather than constantly have to fend off critics who seek to invalidate its workability.

I've been out of the church for about 3 years now. I trained at Flag for about 6 years total, 1992-1997, parts of 1998, and 2000. I got through two versions of the Briefing Course, one before and one after the Golden Age of Tech. I passed videos through Class XII Snr C/Ses there as well as RTC. My metering and TRs have both been inspected meticulously by those terminals, and I ultimately graduated with honors from FSO. Here is a picture from several years ago when I was the Senior C/S for Sacramento Org:
http://lrhtech.hostoi.com/index.php?topic=4.0



Quote:
After those 6 years of training, I was on post for about 8 years. At the end of my last contract I decided to route off staff after encountering a lot of financial stress. I also saw a lot of off-policy and out-tech actions from management that were not per LRH. This is when a lot of problems occurred as there were major attempts to keep me on staff, despite sincere efforts to get through the routing out process by myself, and so I ultimately left the church. This resulted in being expelled, cutting me off from close friends and associates. However, I knew that I would never go back with such injustice and squirrel activity rampant throughout the Scientology network, namely by David Miscavige.

I am happy to say that I am practicing Standard Tech from home and the wins for my pcs have been fantastic. I'll be posting them in the Success Story section, as well as inviting them to participate in the postings here.

Glad to have you all here.
]]> Independent field AnonKat http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19979 Fanatics Incharge http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19978&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 12:32:24 GMT The state of an organisation depends on the mindset and temperament of its leaders. Scientology is no exception. For example, if I were in the place... The state of an organisation depends on the mindset and temperament of its leaders. Scientology is no exception. For example, if I were in the place of David Miscaviage and don’t get me wrong, I have all the experience required to be in his place and I could do the job, I would cancel all the disconnection policies and declare an unconditional general amnesty for everyone declared. This would be the correct step to lessen much of the antagonism against scientology, if that were possible.

But the current leadership are fanatics. I have worked with one of them both on flag as his senior while he was captain of the Apollo and as his junior at FOLO Africa. He was appointed by LRH as in charge of Author Services and he cannot be removed from post as he was appointed by LRH. This guy is a complete nut case and as an example, this is an actual incident I experienced with him at the FOLO Africa.

A harmless old man was recruited to join the SO but after a few days he decided this was not for him and wished to leave. Norman Starkey the CO FOLO Africa on mission from flag and with blood shot eyes from the previous evenings booze went into an insane rage and posted guards all over the place to prevent the guy from blowing and just made the place extremely unpleasant for all. If I were in charge I would have said to the guy, “hey, I’m sorry to see you leave but do you have a place to stay and do you need any transport” and leave it at that.

I myself landed up in hospital at the time where I was informed that I needed to undergo surgery which would have involved cutting open by stomach and cutting away the ends of the vagus nerve. I refused the operation but stayed in the hospital to recuperate. When I came out with the bill of US$20.00 and handed it to him he went nuts again and refused to pay it. He was later recalled to flag by insistence of the Guardian Office.

I consider myself to be my own person and I think for myself. Starkey and Miscaviage, who was a snotty nose kid at the time, are fanatics and are lead by their emotions. Starkey is illiterate, I know this because LRH sent a memo to my then wife who was the flag qual sec and mentioned this to her in the memo and ordered her to get him word cleared method 1.

So I believe that if a company or organization is run by insane fanatics and they have complete power to do as they please they would run that company into the ground as Starkey and Miscaviage are doing. ]]> General discussion lexmark http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19978 Hell aboard the Apollo 1968 http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19977&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 10:02:28 GMT Any "Thetans" onboard who were on that boat in 1968 or any son and daughters. Of course all the relevant links, videos ar welcome again or links to other threads or Blogs. Preferably about 1968 or a little after say 1973.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...#comment-47164

Quote:
martyrathbun09 | September 4, 2010 at 12:22 am | Reply Thanks. I appreciate your concerns, a lot of that will be addressed in my book where there is room for laying down some context. I don’t go there in this forum, because out of context it would be not be fair. There is plenty of “bashing” going on across the net. And your reference to Whitfield is very appropriate on that score. I don’t give a lot of credit to her more dramatic stories. Context: demeanor and drama in her delivery of them, and the fact she tried to make a cool billion dollars off the church. Among other things.

Karen#1 | September 4, 2010 at 12:36 am | Reply There are a few on the Internet that hammer and pound about overboarding and chain locker Incs.
This is so EMBELLISHED and BLOWN out of PROPORTION.
We who were on the Flagship Apollo in the 1970s never saw any such thing.
I didn’t.
All former Apollo crew I am in touch with didn’t.
I will guess that Mike Rinder also saw no such thing.

These incidents occurred in the 1968 era for barely 2 months and while they were unfortunate ad should not have occurred, they were by no means endemic or part of the culture of the Apollo with LRH.

Cat Daddy | September 4, 2010 at 12:53 am | Reply Did you know Mc Master ?

no name | September 4, 2010 at 3:47 am | Reply Karen, can you briefly describe what “occurred in the 1968 era for barely 2 months”? A lot of us would appreciate a chance to as-is this generality of hell aboard the ship. I mean it. It would help dead-agent the ones who spout plausible slander.
]]> Evaluating/criticising Scientology AnonKat http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19977 Bill Maher provokes Maitreya http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19976&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:21:41 GMT Bill Maher provokes Maitreya into appearing after making a bad "Uranus" joke to Benjamin Creme, channeller of Maitreya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaytXa9GkFU ]]> Miscellaneous videos Veda http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19976 The Human Spirit http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19975&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:00:50 GMT I have been asked in some private e-mails which are the best books to read about the human spirit. My answer is: Foreget about L Ron Hubbard, also... I have been asked in some private e-mails which are the best books to read about the human spirit.

My answer is: Foreget about L Ron Hubbard, also quantum physics and although science has gotten involved on the subject of spirituality and very interesting, the best is "The Seth Material".

This is channeled material (from a disembodied thetan) by Jane Roberts and is the only material of its kind stored at a universitity (Yale) anywhere in the world.

Here you will learn about re-incarnation, other realities beside our own physical reality, what happens to you after you die and much more. The work is fascinating. There are several books which took I think 17 years to write and the first book to read is "Seth Speaks".

LRH mentioned the 8th dynamic but all he said about it was that it was the God dynamic. The Seth material goes into this subject.

You can Google where to purchase this material. ]]> General discussion lexmark http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19975 Elvis Rathbun: Viva Las Vagueness http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19974&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 04:36:27 GMT Now, King of Indies--Elvis Rathbun has hit his stride...telling his flock what books will help them think right. Scientologists and Indie... Now, King of Indies--Elvis Rathbun has hit his stride...telling his flock what books will help them think right.

Scientologists and Indie Scientologists will follow the flakiest, criminal hypocrites imaginable. They just need to hear the right words and they obey because they are overwhelmed by anyone that has "certainty".

Today, Elvis Rathbun recommends Thomas Paine's "AGE OF REASON".

Oh.

My.

God.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...ended-reading/

Naturally, Elvis perverts the material so that it's all attack against his enemies, the COS and COB. He doesn't care much about what Thomas Paine would have thought of Ron Hubbard, Scientology or himself as an Indie Cult Leader.

It Thomas Paine were to see Elvis at work, I wonder what he would think of the King of the Indies?

Wait, we know what Thomas Paine would say. Here:
(on Scientologists believing in "the tech"):A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right.

(on Marty's Indie Scn religious movement): All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

(on Marty's belief in alien invasions and being haunted by BT's within your own body/mind): Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.

(on Marty's belief in L. Ron Hubbard): Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.

(on Marty's censorship of thoughts & posts):When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.

(on Marty's certainty about his religion bringing freedom to mankind):Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.
Hey, y'all think Elvis would post this stuff? ]]> General discussion HelluvaHoax! http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19974 <![CDATA[No! Seriously, I'm serious! LMAO!]]> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19973&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 03:41:42 GMT OMG, I haven't laughed and cried in such a long time! :laugh:


http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/...1195230&ref=mf ]]> Miscellaneous videos Wisened One http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=19973