Silly SO Memory: Exec vs. Child's Wristwatch

[JustSheila]

It sounds like you really hated it and had good reason to.

We were under real tight control when I was on. Very militant. You always had a twin with you or some sort of I/C around.

 

[katzen]

Thanks! I get the picture now.

How times changed! Except the thefts. We had the thefts, too. I had everything I loved that was personal to me stolen, from jewelry pendants to my HS class ring. I was 16 then.

Yes. And you can't report theft because it becomes an admission of theft on your part, because if you are being stolen from or saying you are being stolen from, you are clearly a thief yourself.

My parents got involved in one case because an E Meter they had let me use went missing. Had my name on literally every part. Where it turned up was set up at a table in the HCO. They told my parents that it was because I was a thief that this happened. I was a lot of things, but I didn't steal. Also like... that doesn't explain why HCO took my E Meter. They could have just said it was needed and was taken from me for that reason? That is actually understandable.

 

[katzen]

It sounds like you really hated it and had good reason to.

We were under real tight control when I was on. Very militant. You always had a twin with you or some sort of I/C around.

I was always with a twin pretty much which actually made it worse because we were both bad. But when we actually did course work we were fast so I don't know if this is part of why we went unnoticed.

 

[George Layton]

It's on the checksheet for the Personal Grooming Course, part of Product Zero done on the EPF. The sup has to check the person's "personal grooming kit", as well as their body (haircut, clean teeth, fingernails etc). For women this includes sanitary items like napkins or tampons (in the kit, not in situ). I occasionally had to do this check for students in the HGB who had somehow missed doing the course earlier and had to do it.

At one time ASI got ordered to do the course. Understand that ASI women were usually impeccably groomed anyway: I think it was just the Dwarf's way to humiliate them for some reason. So there's me with these very senior exec women showing me their nighties and tampons, or in one case explaining why she had to use napkins because of her heavy periods. The hundreds of hours of bullbaiting come in handy at such times.

I remember one time examining Norman Starkey's feet to check he knew how to cut his toenails properly.

All part of the job.

Paul

The more I read about scientology the more I come to think, "How in the hell can people live life without scientology?"

 

[phenomanon]

I seriously had never heard of that as a common practice when I was in school. Of course I didn't hang out with the "cool" chicks. Showing my age....I'll just get off this thread now.

We did similar things when I was in a rural Public School. We stuffed cotton up Pay Telephone coin return slots.

 

[JustSheila]

I seriously had never heard of that as a common practice when I was in school. Of course I didn't hang out with the "cool" chicks. Showing my age....I'll just get off this thread now.

We did similar things when I was in a rural Public School. We stuffed cotton up Pay Telephone coin return slots.

My mother thought I was a bad kid and I thought I was cool but I never dreamed of doing that kind of mischief or damaging property when I was in school either, WildKat.

 

[Free to shine]

I was 12 and trapped in a cult. I'm not going to be the one who feels guilty about tampons! Give me a break here. Lol.

Absolutely! Love it, wonderful stories.

And !!!

Every time I see someone posting who was a child in scientology, my heart feels better. There is and was so much distress and pain so it's good to hear of rebellion in the ranks.
You can't keep a good sense of humour down.

I can't believe the thing about the watch! Well I can because this is how bizarre it gets but geez ...!

 

[katzen]

My mother thought I was a bad kid and I thought I was cool but I never dreamed of doing that kind of mischief or damaging property when I was in school either, WildKat.

It really just makes a mess... If even that. Probably more like it's slightly annoying or weird to find. I'm trying to imagine a life wherein a big tampon full of water in a sink at a school or a cult is this terrible.

 

[katzen]

Absolutely! Love it, wonderful stories.

And !!!

Every time I see someone posting who was a child in scientology, my heart feels better. There is and was so much distress and pain so it's good to hear of rebellion in the ranks.
You can't keep a good sense of humour down.

I can't believe the thing about the watch! Well I can because this is how bizarre it gets but geez ...!

Thanks!

At least at the time and location I was in the SO, I can safely say that most minors still behaved like kids when they had a chance. Even my fancy friends who held important posts and were eventually part of better orgs participated in activities that I would say are normal for young people but are just completely "NOT OKAY" in the SO. No matter how much you want to clear the planet, ultimately kids are kids. I probably would have stuck around had I been allowed some outlet to be a kid that wasn't out ethics.

 

[Free to shine]

Thanks!

At least at the time and location I was in the SO, I can safely say that most minors still behaved like kids when they had a chance. Even my fancy friends who held important posts and were eventually part of better orgs participated in activities that I would say are normal for young people but are just completely "NOT OKAY" in the SO. No matter how much you want to clear the planet, ultimately kids are kids. I probably would have stuck around had I been allowed some outlet to be a kid that wasn't out ethics.

Yes kids are kids thank goodness. This is a subject dear to my heart, children in scientology, having been a teen, mother, grandmother and head of a scio school for a short time, not SO thank goodness. When it got to stats being given to babies and toddlers for "abilities regained" and being questioned about it, I'd had enough and started the long road out. There is so much I wish hadn't happened and that have long term consequences, and that's why I like stories like yours.

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks!

At least at the time and location I was in the SO, I can safely say that most minors still behaved like kids when they had a chance. Even my fancy friends who held important posts and were eventually part of better orgs participated in activities that I would say are normal for young people but are just completely "NOT OKAY" in the SO. No matter how much you want to clear the planet, ultimately kids are kids. I probably would have stuck around had I been allowed some outlet to be a kid that wasn't out ethics.

Bold mine.

Katzen, I think you've made an excellent point here, but different times and places were different and SO kids behaved differently. In the late 70s and early 80s, the older kids had little to no supervision and many reported a lot of free sex between them, missing school, fighting and bullying between them, but for whatever reason, property destruction was rarely a part of their acting out. When it was, those unfortunate children who were so unhappy they went on destructive binges were dealt with so severely and cruelly that they were completely cut off from the SO, family and friends. I think of poor Serge Obolensky, who was kicked to the streets and cut off from his family when only a minor, and disabled as well! He was Declared SP for making bombs in garbage cans at PAC base and lived on the streets of LA for many years. Karen De LaCarriere and a number of others, including some dedicated never-ins, arranged his housing, counseling and put his life back together for him just a few years ago.

Blowing up pipes by stuffing them up is a bit more serious than ''just a big mess." It can cause tens of thousands of dollars of damage to floors, walls and plumbing systems., I'm not going to brush it off as "kids will be kids" and you shouldn't, either, but that doesn't mean you should be burdened with guilt over it after all these years, either. You were a child acting out. You were NOT a "thetan in a little body" or any of that nonsense. You did not have the parental guidance, supervision or stable home life you should have had. You did not have an adult perspective, adult experience, or adult wisdom. You were unhappy and crying out for help. I am so sorry you didn't get the right kind of help as a child when you needed it.

It seems to me when a child becomes destructive, it is an urgent cry for help. Shame on your parents for not giving you that when you needed it and giving permission for you to join the destructive, abusive cult of Scientology and leaving you there to fend for yourself. I hope your family circumstances have changed for the better since then.

Note To Other ESMB Members: There were recent reports of bomb threats to the Church of Scientology. Please be careful of comments on this thread that might be misinterpreted as supportive of property destruction to COS.

 

[phenomanon]

It really just makes a mess... If even that. Probably more like it's slightly annoying or weird to find. I'm trying to imagine a life wherein a big tampon full of water in a sink at a school or a cult is this terrible.

We made a habit of checking every telephone pay slot we came across in case there was a wad of cotton blocking it. Sometimes there was, and some coins would fall out into our criminal hands. Payday!

 

[phenomanon]

Bold mine.

Katzen, I think you've made an excellent point here, but different times and places were different and SO kids behaved differently. In the late 70s and early 80s, the older kids had little to no supervision and many reported a lot of free sex between them, missing school, fighting and bullying between them, but for whatever reason, property destruction was rarely a part of their acting out. When it was, those unfortunate children who were so unhappy they went on destructive binges were dealt with so severely and cruelly that they were completely cut off from the SO, family and friends. I think of poor Serge Obolensky, who was kicked to the streets and cut off from his family when only a minor, and disabled as well! He was Declared SP for making bombs in garbage cans at PAC base and lived on the streets of LA for many years. Karen De LaCarriere and a number of others, including some dedicated never-ins, arranged his housing, counseling and put his life back together for him just a few years ago.

Blowing up pipes by stuffing them up is a bit more serious than ''just a big mess." It can cause tens of thousands of dollars of damage to floors, walls and plumbing systems., I'm not going to brush it off as "kids will be kids" and you shouldn't, either, but that doesn't mean you should be burdened with guilt over it after all these years, either. You were a child acting out. You were NOT a "thetan in a little body" or any of that nonsense. You did not have the parental guidance, supervision or stable home life you should have had. You did not have an adult perspective, adult experience, or adult wisdom. You were unhappy and crying out for help. I am so sorry you didn't get the right kind of help as a child when you needed it.

It seems to me when a child becomes destructive, it is an urgent cry for help. Shame on your parents for not giving you that when you needed it and giving permission for you to join the destructive, abusive cult of Scientology and leaving you there to fend for yourself. I hope your family circumstances have changed for the better since then.

Note To Other ESMB Members: There were recent reports of bomb threats to the Church of Scientology. Please be careful of comments on this thread that might be misinterpreted as supportive of property destruction to COS.

when my children were born
in the early 50's, we had not even heard of "acting out".
My 2nd born was "lactose intolerant" as an infant, and cried all the time because milk upset her system. " Lactose intolerant" is a term and a condition which was not known about then, so poor baby grew up drinking OJ.
There are a whole world of facts that are common knowledge these days that we in the 50s had no clue of, and Parents did the best they could with what they knew. "If I knew then what I know now" is a cliche that fits here.

 

[JustSheila]

when my children were born
in the early 50's, we had not even heard of "acting out".
My 2nd born was "lactose intolerant" as an infant, and cried all the time because milk upset her system. " Lactose intolerant" is a term and a condition which was not known about then, so poor baby grew up drinking OJ.
There are a whole world of facts that are common knowledge these days that we in the 50s had no clue of, and Parents did the best they could with what they knew. "If I knew then what I know now" is a cliche that fits here.

Pheno, am I correct to assume that your generation was when Dr. Spock was the big authority on raising kids? You might find this (controversial) link interesting, "How Dr. Spock Destroyed America":

http://www.wnd.com/2009/01/87179/

My father's parents were rural Polish immigrants (certainly much older than you). My father was raised differently than the American way we were. My grandparents believed in "spare the rod and spoil the child" but corporal punishment (the woodshed) was extremely rare, too - surprisingly, much more rare than my own father of the next generation.

My grandfather was far more tolerant in many ways. He and my Nana may not have had a term for ''acting out," but they understood it with a certain humor and tolerance and often corrected my own parents when they did not. Somewhere, they drew a line between acting out and outright destructiveness and rebellion so that love, discipline, respect and tolerance were in a healthy balance, despite the rare occasional woodshed.

I wish I knew more about their parenting techniques, but I was young when they died. One key difference I remember is my grandparents tried to include children in almost everything, whereas my parents tended to separate the children to play separately and keep separate company from adults. In some ways, their parenting approaches were nearly opposite.

For a long time I had the wrong idea that my grandparents were more physical and strict than my own parents, but I was wrong. I also had the idea that each generation becomes better parents than the last but I was wrong about that, too. It's not necessarily true, though it could be. My grandparents didn't know anything about ''lactose intolerant," but they knew as farmers that babies tolerated goats' milk better than cows' milk, for example.

There is wisdom in every culture and generation.

 

[Gizmo]

I do remember people in the SO remarking that they'd gone out on mission only to return and find their meager belonging had been stolen - clothes, drums, suitcase, personal items - anything & everything.

Saddest perhaps was seeing SO member with his first pay staring at the change in his hand & muttering " This won't even buy a pack of cigs " !

A guy who spent 4 years on the RPF he later found out because his then senior suspected he knew about an affair the senior was having with a junior.

That guy went on the RPF a kick ass get things done great guy & came off the RPF a broken wimp - and remained that to this day.

The great staff member whose wife went to the RPF, found a boyfriend, both blew - left the great guy on staff heart broken & dismayed that happened on the RPF. He soon routed out.

I just can't count the good people that routed out, blew, were declared - such a waste of a part of good people lives.

 

[PACRAT]

I honestly don't remember! I don't think there was actually information on it, but it was just on a list of required items that needed to be seen and approved before completion of the course. I remember an older woman who did not have tampons or pads with her stuff and when the supervisor asked (I believe that's still who did these odd "check outs" but I could be wrong), she said "I'm lucky!" and it was implied she had gone through menopause already. About a year later this older woman "disappeared" and I remember reading her declare order with a friend and both of us being so worried about what may have happened to her since the order just said she blew or is assumed to have blown because she is missing. We were so upset but weren't allowed to say anything to anyone else of course. We both thought it was weird and scary that an elderly church member could be missing and the best the church did was post a letter defaming her based on an assumption. We worried she was in a hospital somewhere waiting for her people. Or dead. Now I realize/hope she went home to her family.

One thing I did with tampons in the Sea Org -- since technically I had had my period before joining but it went away on the EPF and through most of my Sea Org career I assume due to malnutrition -- was stick them under lightly running bathroom faucets all over the base

Hi Katzen,
When were you in the SO and which org? Sounds like you were at PAC. I was there from 86-89 and before that at AOSH UK

 

[screamer2]

Hey. That they actually admitted that there may actually have been such things as tampons is a start, ain't it? Progress and all that, eh?

 

[vumba]

I remember one time examining Norman Starkey's feet to check he knew how to cut his toenails properly.

All part of the job.

Paul

Really!!! I had no idea things had fallen to this level of degrading people! Shocking.