Hana Whitfield in Hamburg - Scientology is a totalitarien Organization

[Markus]

...and I agree!

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=ACBA6068C7911142&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=SmF9Tpqqw_U

She is talking about children in chain lockers, overboarding and physical beatings of Mr. Hubbard.

She is fighting with tears and then she tries to explain why nobody did anything against this crazy criminal man:

"This is the totalitarian organization that hubbard created. This is the culture, he created. Once you are in that culture you do not think logically. Your logical thought processes are turned off. You are commited to his ideals, his vision of the future and you pardon everything he does...."

Love
Markus

 

[Boojuum]

Powerful Brilliant Speech--Must See!

Hana's short speech is nothing short of miraculous. It's brilliant. I think it's the best anti speech I've heard. It's damning to LRH and to Scientology. It's like watching David slay Goliath. She's simple, she's direct, she makes her cuts with precision and they are devastating. She's amazing.

Anyone who is out or in she see this speech.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I'd love to see it on Primetime TV.

 

[apple]

Hana is a fine speaker. There is one question that I asked a number of times on this board. At 5:37 she says peoples hands were tied behind their back and feet tied then thown overboard. How does one not drown if this is done? Unless they had life jackets on. Was there someone in the water to rescue them? Was it confirmed that all those thrown overboard could swim?

 

[Smilla]

I really like her.

 

[Markus]

Scientology totalitarian Power system

Well I will ask Hana - but I don't think they had life jackets on. Hubbard told some people to jump after them if there was the danger of drowning.
This is what Hana told us when an old Lady had to go overboard and she was screaming and in danger to drown.

Marc Headley wrote in his book "Blown for good" in the chapter "Sea of sin" - quote:
Mr. Byrnes read an order from Hubbard that covered the exact procedure for being thrown overboard. Something about having oneself blindfolded and being thrown into the ocean, someone was even supposed to read a short passage as this was being done. "We commit your sins to the depths. May you arise a better thetan!"
They did the overboarding in the lake of the international headquarter near Hemet from a small bridge.

"The lake was a sludgy disgusting body of water about 200 yards from Building 36. On a hot day, you could sometimes smell the lake from far away. The dead birds and fish that floated in it could stir up quite an aroma. "

Love
Markus

Hana is a fine speaker. There is one question that I asked a number of times on this board. At 5:37 she says peoples hands were tied behind their back and feet tied then thown overboard. How does one not drown is this is done? Unless they had life jackets on. Was there someone in the water to rescue them? Was it confirmed that all those thrown overboard could swim?

This I found on the thread "Golden quotes" http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=397811&postcount=192
and I think it fits here perfectly:
The Anabaptist Jacques wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Scientology Power

I am getting a little sick of people blaming it all on Miscavige for the way the Church of Scientology is today.

No organization can operate just from the top. Miscavige did not make people agree with him.

They either did or they didn’t.

The way the Church of Scientology is now is the logical consequences of the religion and philosophy of Scientology. How could it be otherwise?

Again, the problem is not Miscavige. He’s a punk.

So why did all these powerful OTs get hustled by a punk?

Because at every step of the way he did their bidding.

He created the atmosphere, just like Hubbard did, that they were special and elite beings, above mere humans.

Miscavige and others wanted power in the Church and OTs gave it to them in exchange for what they wanted.

Power in Scientology does not start at the top and work its way down.

How many people have even met or dealt with Miscavige personally?

Scientology power is a web;
every disconnection,
every KR,
every sneer someone gives to a person who is sick and considered PTS,
every conspiracy theory anyone subscribes to within the Church,
every time some public used clout to gain an advantageous result in an unjust chaplain cycle,
every Scientology businessman who justified underpaying his employees because they were an “on purpose” company,
every nodding of their heads in agreement at ridiculous CCHR claims

all these things is where the power lays.

And this isn’t only done by the people at the top.

It was and is done by the filed OTs and others now crying foul because their egos aren’t being stroked anymore.

They went along as far as they did because there was something in it for them.

If Scientology was, as was said “a very useful technology that can produce phenomenal results” people would be beating a path to its door.

People aren't.

These OTs got the leader and the Church they deserved."

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[apple]

Well I will ask Hana - but I don't think they had life jackets on. Hubbard told some people to jump after them if there was the danger of drowning.
This is what Hana told us when an old Lady had to go overboard and she was screaming and in danger to drown.

Marc Headley wrote in his book "Blown for good" in the chapter "Sea of sin" - quote:
Mr. Byrnes read an order from Hubbard that covered the exact procedure for being thrown overboard. Something about having oneself blindfolded and being thrown into the ocean, someone was even supposed to read a short passage as this was being done. "We commit your sins to the depths. May you arise a better thetan!"
They did the overboarding in the lake of the international headquarter near Hemet from a small bridge.

"The lake was a sludgy disgusting body of water about 200 yards from Building 36. On a hot day, you could sometimes smell the lake from far away. The dead birds and fish that floated in it could stir up quite an aroma. "

Love
Markus
Thank you Markus, I would appreciate clarification on the overboarding. I will try contact some old ex-sea org people that I know here and ask them also. If someone can survive a 30 to 40 foot fall into the ocean, probably stressed and hyperventilating to some degree, hands tied behind the back, feet tied, now maybe blindfolded. They would have to be a true OT to survive that and not drown.

 

[Challenge]

I remember when Hana would appear in her SO uniform, all bright and shining.She was/is a beautiful chick. We would all stand and applaud Hana. She, as far as I knew, was popular and well thought of by all.
When I left COS in '83, of course thare was no Internet. But Mark Jones had started up a group called Council For Spiritual Integrity. There were a lot of people who had left, or were leaving COS who dropped in to hear others tell their stories.
It was during that time that I mey Hana, alive and in person, and her sweet husband Jerry Whitfield. They were literally being hounded by COS. ( well, yes, the COS can't hound anyone. It is just a building or you know wtf ever), but they were followed, threatened, fairgamed in every way that the GO (OSA) could get away with. And that was considerable harrassment.
The Council that I mentioned was eventually disbanded. Churchies would come to meetings with food from MacDonald's and leave the trash strewn about the floors. They yelled, and laughed, and did whatever they could to disrupt.
I don't know what finally disbanded the Council. Spouse and I got the hell outta Los Angeles.
I didn't know what had become of Hana and/or Jerry either. I knew that they were doing some exit counselling because I had asked Hana to speak with some guys who had come into town with a bunch of questions about their involvement with the COS. Hana was so good at answering their questions that I told her that she and Jerry should do it for a living. And they did.
Anyways, Hana is "a Class Act". Only hers is not an act. She is the "real deal".

Challenge

 

[Enthetan]

"This is the totalitarian organization that hubbard created. This is the culture, he created. Once you are in that culture you do not think logically. Your logical thought processes are turned off. You are commited to his ideals, his vision of the future and you pardon everything he does...."

Love
Markus

This is the predictable and inevitable result of making the goals of the Group senior to the rights of the individual.

Whether it's Scientology with its Fair Game and RPF.

Or the various Communist states with the Killing Fields of Cambodia, the Gulags, the Ukrainian Terror Famine.

Or the Nazis with their death camps.

It comes as the logical conclusion that individuals do not belong to themselves, to be given a fair exchange for their work, but instead are the slaves of the Group.

 

[DartSmohen]

Hana's talk

...and I agree!

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=ACBA6068C7911142&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=SmF9Tpqqw_U

She is talking about children in chain lockers, overboarding and physical beatings of Mr. Hubbard.

She is fighting with tears and then she tries to explain why nobody did anything against this crazy criminal man:

"This is the totalitarian organization that hubbard created. This is the culture, he created. Once you are in that culture you do not think logically. Your logical thought processes are turned off. You are commited to his ideals, his vision of the future and you pardon everything he does...."

Love
Markus

Most of what Hana said was true. It is a pity she embellished it. It is a harrowing story and didn't need to be "spiced up".

I was also there at the time.

If you want to know what happened on the overboards, then read the thread "The Overboard Ceremony".

I was also on the Liability Cruise.Mary Sue was Captain. We did not have black marks on the face. That was put there on a person assigned a condition of Treason. The requirements for upgrading were that the crew had to receive a full security check, complete their Staff Status 1 & 2 and their SO Staff Status.

The first Liability condition was assigned to Anton in Las Palmas in 1967, before Hana joined the SO.

The child, Derek Green was actually in the chain locker for 2 days. I saw him going in. His mother was a close friend of our family.

Dart

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

child in chain locker

Valerie Schomer, Homer's daughter was put in the chain lockers before she was 8. I'm thinking age 6 or 7. She was there for days (plural).

She had fallen asleep at 2 AM outside LRH's door while being a Commodore's Messenger.

35 years later, she's still in the SO in LA.

 

[Markus]

Tell us more Dart

Most of what Hana said was true. It is a pity she embellished it. It is a harrowing story and didn't need to be "spiced up".

I was also there at the time.

If you want to know what happened on the overboards, then read the thread "The Overboard Ceremony".

I was also on the Liability Cruise.Mary Sue was Captain. We did not have black marks on the face. That was put there on a person assigned a condition of Treason. The requirements for upgrading were that the crew had to receive a full security check, complete their Staff Status 1 & 2 and their SO Staff Status.

The first Liability condition was assigned to Anton in Las Palmas in 1967, before Hana joined the SO.

The child, Derek Green was actually in the chain locker for 2 days. I saw him going in. His mother was a close friend of our family.

Dart

This is very interesting. May you please tell us more Dart? It seems that Hana mixed some things up. So in my opinion it is very important to talk about this stories in order to get as close to the truth as possible.
Human observation is very subjective and sometimes the mind is mixing things up. The more first hand information we have the better we can draw a picture of this man who created this organization.

Love
markus

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

Quote Marcus:

This is very interesting. May you please tell us more Dart? It seems that Hana mixed some things up. So in my opinion it is very important to talk about this stories in order to get as close to the truth as possible.
Human observation is very subjective and sometimes the mind is mixing things up. The more first hand information we have the better we can draw a picture of this man who created this organization.

Yes Dartsmohen, please tell us more.

Also, while you're at it, tell us why you did nothing to stop the abuse of children.

Two days, five days, two weeks, does it really matter?

These kids were locked in the ships chain locker. One hour was too long.

 

[Challenge]

Valerie Schomer, Homer's daughter was put in the chain lockers before she was 8. I'm thinking age 6 or 7. She was there for days (plural).

She had fallen asleep at 2 AM outside LRH's door while being a Commodore's Messenger.

35 years later, she's still in the SO in LA.

How can she still be in the SO? Considering the fact that Homer was a part of the FAIR Class Action Suit, wrote numerous depositions, spoke on public forums about the movements of monies to LRH, and eventually settled for some amount of money to shut up?
How is it possible that she is still in SO?
Just askin'.

Challenge

 

[DartSmohen]

Quote Marcus:


Yes Dartsmohen, please tell us more.

Also, while you're at it, tell us why you did nothing to stop the abuse of children.

Two days, five days, two weeks, does it really matter?

These kids were locked in the ships chain locker. One hour was too long.

Sharone,

Don't try and lay your "outrage" on me. I suspect you have issues of your own about being abused.

At the time in Valencia I was senior tech person on board, fully involved in the delivery of the OT levels 3 - 6.

Like Hana, we were all "believers" at the time.

You might want to google PAULS RABBIT and read more about that period.

Dart

 

[Gottabrain]

Dart, there is no reason for anyone to believe Hannah's story was embellished. If anything, she refrained from saying more because she was so emotional about it.

Please listen more carefully to her testimony. She is giving a history of how certain things came about as policy. There may have been a standard procedure later, which you talk about, but consider that procedure was developed after doing things many different ways. The times that stand out most to her and others were the ones that were the most brutal - and these are the ones she would remember the best.

And it sounds as if you have the boy in the chain locker event confused with the deaf & dumb girl who was locked up. Please listen to her testimony again, as analytically as possible, observing all her natural reactions. I believe both of you can and will agree on nearly everything once you do so.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

How can she still be in the SO? Considering the fact that Homer was a part of the FAIR Class Action Suit, wrote numerous depositions, spoke on public forums about the movements of monies to LRH, and eventually settled for some amount of money to shut up?
How is it possible that she is still in SO?
Just askin'.

Challenge

Homer is alive and well, married with a house near Malibu. He has a room reserved for V. She is across town at L. Ron Hubbard Way. She has a daughter, S.O. also. I ran into her last year while visiting another friend.

She was put in the Sea Org by her dad, when he joined in 1969 --- I think. When all you know is what is around you, that's your world, your friends.

How willing would anybody be to walk out on their entire life in the US and move to China? The change isn't as dramatic as leaving the Sea Org.

 

[AnonyMary]

Hana is my hero!

 

[DartSmohen]

And it sounds as if you have the boy in the chain locker event confused with the deaf & dumb girl who was locked up. Please listen to her testimony again, as analytically as possible, observing all her natural reactions. I believe both of you can and will agree on nearly everything once you do so.

Hmm,

Hana and I were VERY close. I am not seeking to contradict her, merely to put facts in context.

You see, Hana was not on board when the incident occured. She was captain/Supercargo of the Avon River which was berthed alongside the Royal Scotsman. What Hana got was the story of the incident.

Hana's recounting of events is very harrowing. I will leave it as it is because it clearly has an impact.

There is simply no point in me making any further corrections to the events as described.

It is what you want to go with, so that is good enough for me.

Just remember, The truth is what IS, not what you think it to be.

Have a good life.

Dart

 

[Markus]

Valerie Schomer, Homer's daughter was put in the chain lockers before she was 8. I'm thinking age 6 or 7. She was there for days (plural).

She had fallen asleep at 2 AM outside LRH's door while being a Commodore's Messenger.

35 years later, she's still in the SO in LA.

Well as I said before - Hubbard claims, that his brainwashing is much more effective than the brainwashing of the KGB.
Poor girl - poor woman

Love
Markus