nessa
Patron
Here's a link for the tragic death of heribert pfaff, scientology deprives him of his medicaton.
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/kult-epelep.htm
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/kult-epelep.htm
Scientology kills epileptics - Heribert Pfaff
- Thread starter nessa
- Start date
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
This is one of the most preventable deaths in the history of Scientology. There are thousands of articles and website posts about what happened to the guy.
It's listed as the # 2 Top Evil of Scientology, right behind the treatment and death of Lisa McPherson:
http://listverse.com/2008/01/28/top-10-evils-of-scientology/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCaAvAlxOmg
Fort Harrison Hotel - Room 758
Death of scientologist Heribert Pfaff
"Professor of neurology Günther Schwendemann: I can tell you with the utmost probability, that with adequate treatment the patient would still be alive today. "
http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/room758.html
Tory Christman goes int great detail on what happened with her being taken off her seizure meds. I also knew a woman at LA Org who had frequent seizures for the same reason. Lisa McPherson and Jett Travolta are additional sad example. I lost many years of good health because of Scientology's insistence on bad alternative medicine crap instead of appropriate medical treatment. It goes on today because members are not thinking for themselves and are pressured into believing sham doctors.
If you, reader,. are feeling ill, get appropriate medcal care. You have every right to receive it. There is no policy that says you can't go to a regular traditional meical doctor. This altermative meds thing is a holdover from back in the 80s
in California, when it was all the rage to buck the system.
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
In case you missed it
In case some of you missed this or you're new here, I'll repost this from my Reg Corner thread.
As it turns out, I may have been the last person to see poor Herbert alive. Here's the story:
I’m at Flag regging donations. A guy shows up from Germany. After he settled in for a few days in the HGC and started to have some wins (this was and is carefully monitored by Registration), my boss told me to get him briefed up and regged to donate a large chunk.
So I wander down to the HGC (in these days it was in the Cabannas along side the swimming pool at the FH) to locate the guy. He comes out of session and while he’s waiting in the HGC waiting room, I slide alongside and start the ball rolling.
I noticed he was moving his tongue around a lot in his mouth and I asked about it. He said that he’d had a “small epileptic fit” the night before and had bit his tongue a bit. He stuck it out to show me and it was ASTONISHING! The left 25% of his tongue (front to back) was just flattened – and I mean FLATTENED.
I asked if it hurt and should ne not see a doctor. He said it was getting better.
I asked if he had any medication to use to prevent another episode. As I remember it, he said, “No, the C/S and I are working out a handling so I never have to take the medicine again.”
I thought this was strange, but I was there to ask him for a donation.
A few moments later, the Board IC told him that he would be first up the next day, so he should go to bed right away. I asked him if he would stay up and talk to me. He said no, but that he was interested in my project and would love to hear more about it in the morning, right after his first session. So we made an appointment.
Later that night at product conference, my senior verbally “beat the shit out of me” for not getting the cycle done that night. But I went to bed happy that I had a “good cycle” for the next morning. If I got it wrapped up before the 1:00pm product conference, I would be vindicated!
Next morning around 10:00am I wandered down to the HGC looking for my guy. There was a bit of commotion going on near the board, so I elbowed my way in to see what was going on. One of the hotel staff (Flag Crew reg – who was also at the product conference the night before) told me that my guy was dead – died in bed in his room in the night – from (of all things) an epileptic seizure.
So now I end up at the 1:00pm product conference and in front of all the other regges get “dressed down” by the same product officer – BIG TIME.
Another reg that was there who happened to be from the same country as the dead guy says something like, “What an asshole, that guy always was Dev-T”.
I've never mentioned the conversation I had with Herbert that night, but I’m doing it now.
In case some of you missed this or you're new here, I'll repost this from my Reg Corner thread.
As it turns out, I may have been the last person to see poor Herbert alive. Here's the story:
I’m at Flag regging donations. A guy shows up from Germany. After he settled in for a few days in the HGC and started to have some wins (this was and is carefully monitored by Registration), my boss told me to get him briefed up and regged to donate a large chunk.
So I wander down to the HGC (in these days it was in the Cabannas along side the swimming pool at the FH) to locate the guy. He comes out of session and while he’s waiting in the HGC waiting room, I slide alongside and start the ball rolling.
I noticed he was moving his tongue around a lot in his mouth and I asked about it. He said that he’d had a “small epileptic fit” the night before and had bit his tongue a bit. He stuck it out to show me and it was ASTONISHING! The left 25% of his tongue (front to back) was just flattened – and I mean FLATTENED.
I asked if it hurt and should ne not see a doctor. He said it was getting better.
I asked if he had any medication to use to prevent another episode. As I remember it, he said, “No, the C/S and I are working out a handling so I never have to take the medicine again.”
I thought this was strange, but I was there to ask him for a donation.
A few moments later, the Board IC told him that he would be first up the next day, so he should go to bed right away. I asked him if he would stay up and talk to me. He said no, but that he was interested in my project and would love to hear more about it in the morning, right after his first session. So we made an appointment.
Later that night at product conference, my senior verbally “beat the shit out of me” for not getting the cycle done that night. But I went to bed happy that I had a “good cycle” for the next morning. If I got it wrapped up before the 1:00pm product conference, I would be vindicated!
Next morning around 10:00am I wandered down to the HGC looking for my guy. There was a bit of commotion going on near the board, so I elbowed my way in to see what was going on. One of the hotel staff (Flag Crew reg – who was also at the product conference the night before) told me that my guy was dead – died in bed in his room in the night – from (of all things) an epileptic seizure.
So now I end up at the 1:00pm product conference and in front of all the other regges get “dressed down” by the same product officer – BIG TIME.
Another reg that was there who happened to be from the same country as the dead guy says something like, “What an asshole, that guy always was Dev-T”.
I've never mentioned the conversation I had with Herbert that night, but I’m doing it now.
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
David McCarthy was also an epileptic who died. He was a Sea Org member and a very good friend.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
yes. Dave was a brash, big man, fun to be around. When his wife, Linda, found out she was pregnant Dave and I were on mission together - she telexed me to wake him up and tell him. Travis is their son.
Linda is still in - alas.
nessa
Patron
It's so shocking to hear the amount of deaths that are caused by scientology. I'm glad its being made public though, along with tons of news over internet about it all.
Here's another link i've found
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=5004
It's not related to heribert pfaff though, but its got intersting article (blogs), plus videos.
Here's another link i've found
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=5004
It's not related to heribert pfaff though, but its got intersting article (blogs), plus videos.
nessa
Patron
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh my god!
I knew Heribert and his wife - we were living in the same town before they left for Flag with the big hope that Auditing could handle his Illness - Epilepsy with heavy Grand Mal seizures
Actually I helped for some weeks during the nights because she feared that he could hurt himself while having a seizure. I wonder why there was nobody in the hotel room with Heribert when this happened in the Fort Harrison Hotel at Flag. His wife was a very responsible person - this was why she asked me to care for him during the nights. As far as I know both of them were on "Lines" in Mission Ulm before they left to Flag. By the way the very same Mission where my brother Uwe was recruited into the Sea Org.
See also:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=273863&postcount=4
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14804
Best
Markus
I knew Heribert and his wife - we were living in the same town before they left for Flag with the big hope that Auditing could handle his Illness - Epilepsy with heavy Grand Mal seizures
Actually I helped for some weeks during the nights because she feared that he could hurt himself while having a seizure. I wonder why there was nobody in the hotel room with Heribert when this happened in the Fort Harrison Hotel at Flag. His wife was a very responsible person - this was why she asked me to care for him during the nights. As far as I know both of them were on "Lines" in Mission Ulm before they left to Flag. By the way the very same Mission where my brother Uwe was recruited into the Sea Org. See also:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=273863&postcount=4
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14804
Best
Markus
Last edited:
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I knew Heribert and his wife - we were living in the same town before they left for Flag with the big hope that Auditing could handle his Illness - Epilepsy with heavy Grand Mal seizures
See also:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=273863&postcount=4
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14804
Best
Markus
Wow. I guess she was not around that night to help him. Wonder if she is still on lines.
Best wishes, Marcus
Mary
secretiveoldfag
Silver Meritorious Patron
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
Well it seems she was around as you can read here but she was not with him in the hotel room to help him: "His wife, Anita, told police she was staying with friends so she wouldn't be awakened by the seizures her husband had been having since he quit taking his medicine."
from: http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sourc...mbrf4B&usg=AFQjCNGc35ckEAEwnWZ8pr0BFvcmUHSJug
And my last information was that she is still on lines
I have talked to many Scientologists about Heriberts death and there are two camps of opinions or should I say of certain truth - because all of them were sure that they were right.....
One camp is claiming that Heribert allways was very caotic and unreliable- well just like the person in Flag who called him Dev-T.
The other camp is claiming that his wife is responsible for his death because she was not caring for him in the night when the seizure happened. Well as I said before - I knew his wife and she allways cared a lot for her husband - so why was she not there in that night? Maybe just because somebody told her that Auditing healed the Epilepsy of her husband?
None of all this Scientologists ever said that probably the Church of Scientology has done something wrong here. Of course none of them was in Flag when this happened but all of them were and are sure that it must have been the fault of Heribert or his wife......
All this and the cruel suffering of my brother Uwe with his MS in the Sea Org in California is just so unbelievable criminall and crazy
Let me end with a quote from the above post of "This is not OK":
I asked if he had any medication to use to prevent another episode. As I remember it, he said,“No, the C/S and I are working out a handling so I never have to take the medicine again.”
love
Markus
Last edited:
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
Who was the CS of Mr. Heribert Pfaff?
Well it should be possible to find out who was the "Case Supervisor" of Heribert Pfaff. For me this would be very important.
Who was the responsible "Case Supervisor"?
Who was the responsible registrar?
Who else was responsible?
Who was hiding facts in this fatal story?
This was fraudulent and criminal - why is it possible that this is happening again and again?
Markus
Well it should be possible to find out who was the "Case Supervisor" of Heribert Pfaff. For me this would be very important.
Who was the responsible "Case Supervisor"?
Who was the responsible registrar?
Who else was responsible?
Who was hiding facts in this fatal story?
This was fraudulent and criminal - why is it possible that this is happening again and again?
Markus
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
The cult freaks out about any medication or treatment pertaining to the brain or nervous system. They lump it in with psychiatric medicine, not that I agree with their prohibition on that, either. But with epilepsy, what we see here are very ignorant people who don't know dick about medicine, actually practicing medicine without a license.
Far be it from me to abjure any religion's attempts to address matters of the body through spiritual means. I've never had a problem with that, though I know that not everyone here would agree with me. But when people have an actual condition and are taking meds for it and someone without any medical training comes along and tells them to stop taking their meds or getting their (qualified) medical treatment, then you get tragedies like this one and like others, too.
Far be it from me to abjure any religion's attempts to address matters of the body through spiritual means. I've never had a problem with that, though I know that not everyone here would agree with me. But when people have an actual condition and are taking meds for it and someone without any medical training comes along and tells them to stop taking their meds or getting their (qualified) medical treatment, then you get tragedies like this one and like others, too.
degraded being
Sponsor
Do you know if this guy had been using meds, and if he was seizure-free when he was taking them? And if he he was taking meds do you know what it/they were?
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
Heribert's friend Markus who is posting on this thread will certainly provide whatever medical details Heribert's family have agreed to release.
Nicole
Silver Meritorious Patron
Markus said:
As long this criminal cult exists, it will happen again and again...
All the humans who think they are healed by auditing and all the people who think they failed at this timetrack and close this wonderfull life by suicide or on other ways. It's more than criminal that Co$ tell them these lies.
RIP
Heribert Pfaff
Heribert Pfaff
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Yes, yes, Scientology kills everyone who isn't presently smiling. We know this.
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
I was not the friend of Heribert. My mother knew his wife then and she arranged that I helped her in the nights. The Pfaffs left their home to travel to Flag in summer 1988 and I left the town to start my studies at the University.
I will not provide any more details here right now but I will get in contact with the Pfaff family about this matter as soon as possible.
Best wishes
Markus
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