Olivia Newton- John , John Travolta Reunited

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Originally Posted by Synthia

Listen, I like the guy. I'm sure he's nice. I wish he'd wake the hell up.

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I think that his Scn wife, Kelly Preston, is a true believing Churchie and that she threatens John with divorce and maybe worse if he defects from the cult.
She could threaten him with a messy costly divorce, maybe write stories for the tabloids about his infidelities and accuse him of harming Jett, and threaten to take his remaining children away from him.
John is most likely doing the best he can under burdensome circumstances.

challenge

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Originally Posted by Challenge

I think that his Scn wife, Kelly Preston, is a true believing Churchie and that she threatens John with divorce and maybe worse if he defects from the cult.

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She can threaten him with the loss of his eternity! :omg:

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Originally Posted by Synthia

... Anyway, I'll buy that he's a nice guy. So what? He is a celebrity that allows his weight to be used for a despicable cult. I have no tolerance for that as celebrities have an even greater responsibility to understand to what kind of organization they are acting as a public front. ...

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Be as intolerant as you like. :yawn:

Celebrities have no more or less responsibility for the cult than do other 'public' members of the church. Most scientologists 'promote' scientology. They do so because, at least for a time, they have found something about the subject which has helped them and which they wish to share with their friends and family. That is not an inherent 'evil action'.

Celebrities aren't staff. They aren't typically all that aware of the gross inconsistencies between church management's promises versus their actual practices.

I see no reasonable justification for self-righteous indignation over the continuing allegiance of any scientologist who is not himself directly responsible for enacting, enabling, or supporting the abuses of the church.

Travolta isn't. He isn't Sea Org. He's not even staff. He's not 'guilty'. He's just a famous guy who as a member of the church is accorded special treatment by church management out of its own cynical attempts at church-promotion.

Individuals are responsible for their own actions. Most of the celebrity scientologists are not themselves responsible for the abuses of the church. Worth a moments consideration though is how many ordinary scientologists, both staff & public, have been active contributors to the abusive practices of the church. Many of these individuals have since left the church, e.g. Marty Rathbun. Many haven't, e.g. John Alexander.

Be 'out' doesn't magically make personal responsibility for past actions disappear, anymore than being in 'good standing' or promoting the subject of scientology automatically makes a person responsible for the horrors of the rpf.


Mark A. Baker

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

Be as intolerant as you like. :yawn:

Celebrities have no more or less responsibility for the cult than do other 'public' members of the church. Most scientologists 'promote' scientology. They do so because, at least for a time, they have found something about the subject which has helped them and which they wish to share with their friends and family. That is not an inherent 'evil action'.

Celebrities aren't staff. They aren't typically all that aware of the gross inconsistencies between church management's promises versus their actual practices.

I see no reasonable justification for self-righteous indignation over the continuing allegiance of any scientologist who is not himself directly responsible for enacting, enabling, or supporting the abuses of the church.

Travolta isn't. He isn't Sea Org. He's not even staff. He's not 'guilty'. He's just a famous guy who as a member of the church is accorded special treatment by church management out of its own cynical attempts at church-promotion.

Individuals are responsible for their own actions. Most of the celebrity scientologists are not themselves responsible for the abuses of the church. Worth a moments consideration though is how many ordinary scientologists, both staff & public, have been active contributors to the abusive practices of the church. Many of these individuals have since left the church, e.g. Marty Rathbun. Many haven't, e.g. John Alexander.

Be 'out' doesn't magically make personal responsibility for past actions disappear, anymore than being in 'good standing' or promoting the subject of scientology automatically makes a person responsible for the horrors of the rpf.


Mark A. Baker

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I think celebs probably get extensive "hatting" from OSA. IMO they have a lot more responsibility for anything they sell through their celeb status than someone who is not a celeb, who makes recommendations to friends. Ordinary people do not have world wide audiences and are not part of huge promo camapigns.
The world has woken up to scientology but JT is still snoring or at least pretends to be. He promotes the koolaid. Has he bothered to find out what the fuss is all about?
Casting him as simply a nice guy who is spreading good news is silly.
At least Tom cruise has enough sense to keep a low profile these days......but then that is most likely by order of his Scientology cult puppet masters. The puppet masters know that Travolta has a bit more to be squeezed out of him with his "nice guy" image. The worse scientology is found out to be by everybody except JT, the worse JT appears. And it is a game of appearances.

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

Travolta isn't. He isn't Sea Org. He's not even staff.

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He may not be Sea Org but he's worked with them and did programs for them.

Back around 1987 when I was at Social Coordination Int (Now ABLE) he was working closely with us on at least one program when I was there. As part of that he met with President Reagan (and Nancy Reagan) and worked with her on her anti-drug "just say NO" campaign.

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Originally Posted by degraded being

I think celebs probably get extensive "hatting" from OSA.

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SOCO INT (Social Coordination) that JT worked with used to be part of the Guardians Office but was removed at some point prior to my working there)

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Originally Posted by Type4_PTS

He may not be Sea Org but he's worked with them and did programs for them.

Back around 1987 when I was at Social Coordination Int (Now ABLE) he was working closely with us on at least one program when I was there. As part of that he met with President Reagan (and Nancy Reagan) and worked with her on her anti-drug "just say NO" campaign.

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Oh My! He worked on the 'Just Say No' campaign on behalf of the church? :omg:

Yeah! He must be a real 'sp'! Break out the tar & feathers! :melodramatic:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

Oh My! He worked on the 'Just Say No' campaign on behalf of the church? :omg:

Yeah! He must be a real 'sp'! Break out the tar & feathers! :melodramatic:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:

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Stop BSing Mark. :melodramatic:

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

Yeah! He must be a real 'sp'! Break out the tar & feathers! :melodramatic:

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I didn't say he was an SP or even that he's a bad guy.

But he was meeting with the sitting President of the U.S. as a representative of the Co$.

He used his celebrity to promote the CoS. I'm not going to just give him a free pass because he isn't aware of all the abuses and criminal activity of the CoS. It's HIS responsibility to learn about the organization he's promoting.

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

He isn't Sea Org. He's not even staff.

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Yes he IS staff.
http://www.ocala.com/article/2011053...CLES/110539996

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She blew, flew to Florida, Mark Yeager and Marty Rathbun were waiting for her in John Travolta's personal plane, they were there before her commercial flight landed

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http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/jesse_tape3e.html

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Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker

Be as intolerant as you like. :yawn:

Celebrities have no more or less responsibility for the cult than do other 'public' members of the church. Most scientologists 'promote' scientology. They do so because, at least for a time, they have found something about the subject which has helped them and which they wish to share with their friends and family. That is not an inherent 'evil action'.

Celebrities aren't staff. They aren't typically all that aware of the gross inconsistencies between church management's promises versus their actual practices.

I see no reasonable justification for self-righteous indignation over the continuing allegiance of any scientologist who is not himself directly responsible for enacting, enabling, or supporting the abuses of the church.

Travolta isn't. He isn't Sea Org. He's not even staff. He's not 'guilty'. He's just a famous guy who as a member of the church is accorded special treatment by church management out of its own cynical attempts at church-promotion.

Individuals are responsible for their own actions. Most of the celebrity scientologists are not themselves responsible for the abuses of the church. Worth a moments consideration though is how many ordinary scientologists, both staff & public, have been active contributors to the abusive practices of the church. Many of these individuals have since left the church, e.g. Marty Rathbun. Many haven't, e.g. John Alexander.

Be 'out' doesn't magically make personal responsibility for past actions disappear, anymore than being in 'good standing' or promoting the subject of scientology automatically makes a person responsible for the horrors of the rpf.


Mark A. Baker

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I don't know if it's really intellectually honest to absolve Travolta of any and all responsibility for the practices of the Church of Scientology when he is willing to serve as a spokesperson for the Church and is willing to donate large sums of cash to the Church.

He's responsible for knowing what sort of organization he is lending his name and celebrity to, regardless of whether it's a church or a chess club.