The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[lkwdblds]

Someone just being a caring and honest human being with no agenda, (hidden or otherwise) and without the need to promote oneself (or ones tek) before or after the fact, is a very attractive thing to me and probably is to most people.

No-one 'handles' me (without me knowing it) ... but every now and then someone is sweet enough to take the time to try and make me feel better (as you did) and that is something that I'm very happy to acknowledge and I do similar for others whenever I can, as most people that care about others do.

It isn't hard.

It isn't complicated.

It isn't tek.

Hi Trouble - You wrote a very beautiful post here. I pretty much love everything you say especially at the end about giving and receiving help. You and Carmelo have some special communication going that is very beautiful. There is resolution here and I don't want to mess with it.

I just wanted to touch on two points and do so without introducing conflict:
#1: My beef has never been concerned with someone criticising tek, but only that certain peope insist that others must agree with them that said tek is bad. You covered this point in a post you wrote a couple of posts back and what you said made sense.

I am in the camp with Carmelo, Leon and some others that caring communication, with no rigid formatted patter can cause a betterment in another person. It is one person genuinely caring about another person, being there with them, caring, really intending to help them and listening carefully to what they are saying. Someone skilled at this can direct the person's attention to a specific area and the person being helped will often be able to see something new and achieve some betterment.

#2 - As you say, "It isn't hard and it isn't complicated." As to wheter it is tek or not, it doesn't have to be called tek but I see nothing wrong with calling it that.

In my life, I have not seen a whole lot of this type of activity going on in society. A very few seem to have a knack for doing it but if one just listens to talk radio or panel discussions on TV one will not generally find it there. Instead one will find mainly a lot of "make wrong", talking over others and trying to enforce an agenda upon them. Society is also now taking medical drugs to achieve betterment.

The ability to help another through communication does not seem to be a skill which is intrinsic to most humans. It has to be taught to most of us and not everyone is interested in learning it. I see how this technique could be referred to as tek. It could just as easily be called by another name or left unnamed. There is a technique involved here and theories exist as to why it produces results. To that degree calling it tek is not out of line. Freud and Jung were earlier pioneers in the field and much much earlier there were Plato and Socrates.
Lakey

[I told you I was trouble]

I hear you Lakey.

My 'issue' FWIW is with the kind of person that seems to need to be applauded for doing anything good or decent and then wants to discuss it till every bit of spontaneity has been rung out of it.



It just nullifies the good (for me).

Actually, it sickens me.

[CarmeloOrchards]

[lkwdblds]

I hear you Lakey.

My 'issue' FWIW is with the kind of person that seems to need to be applauded for doing anything good or decent and then wants to discuss it till every bit of spontaneity has been rung out of it.



It just nullifies the good (for me).

Actually, it sickens me.

Well Trouble, we have FULL agreement. I couldn't agree with you more.

Also, the people who do the greatest good don't seem to have a need to "toot their own horn".

Overdiscussion does wring out spontaneity. I seem to have a propensity to over discuss. This manifests as a compulsion to analyze and re analyze in an effort to obtain agreement and recognition and be well thought of by others. (I just now realized this!)

A person who calls attention to himself after doing good, is a mixed bag to me. The person's boasting about himself is somewhat sickening but then again he did help someone and that should be encouraged. In some cases it may nullify the good but not always. I would take that on a case by case basis.
Lakey

[FoTi]

Well Trouble, we have FULL agreement. I couldn't agree with you more.

Also, the people who do the greatest good don't seem to have a need to "toot their own horn".

Overdiscussion does wring out spontaneity. I seem to have a propensity to over discuss. This manifests as a compulsion to analyze and re analyze in an effort to obtain agreement and recognition and be well thought of by others. (I just now realized this!)

A person who calls attention to himself after doing good, is a mixed bag to me. The person's boasting about himself is somewhat sickening but then again he did help someone and that should be encouraged. In some cases it may nullify the good but not always. I would take that on a case by case basis.
Lakey

LRH tooted his own horn all over the place.

He overdiscussed and overworded a lot.....loved to hear himself talk, I guess....blah, blah, blah.

He boasted about himself more than anyone I've ever seen......he was all puffed up about himself and how he was source and the savior of mankind.

Taking it on a case by case basis.....considering his motives.....he was sickening.

[lkwdblds]

LRH tooted his own horn all over the place.

He overdiscussed and overworded a lot.....loved to hear himself talk, I guess....blah, blah, blah.

He boasted about himself more than anyone I've ever seen......he was all puffed up about himself and how he was source and the savior of mankind.

Taking it on a case by case basis.....considering his motives.....he was sickening.

Er eh...yea! I never looked at it that way but what you write cannot be refuted.
Lakey

[FoTi]

An interesting article on what you need to survive in the wilderness or on a long hike.

http://survivalblog.com/2012/02/all-...charles-m.html

[FoTi]

Seems internet allows people to be more honest.....

(The cartoon made me laugh)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ealth_newsreel

[Auditor's Toad]

<snip>

Also, the people who do the greatest good don't seem to have a need to "toot their own horn".

Overdiscussion does wring out spontaneity. I seem to have a propensity to over discuss. This manifests as a compulsion to analyze and re analyze in an effort to obtain agreement and recognition and be well thought of by others. (I just now realized this!)

A person who calls attention to himself after doing good, is a mixed bag to me. The person's boasting about himself is somewhat sickening but then again he did help someone and that should be encouraged. In some cases it may nullify the good but not always. I would take that on a case by case basis.
Lakey

My good deed for the day is going to be to TRY not to respond to that ^ post.
It takes the cake !

[afaceinthecrowd]

I CALL THEM AS I SEE THEM
The things I wrote are my opinions. Not everyone will agree with someone's opinion and I know going in that many will not agree. If a disagreement is stated in good faith, as Claire Swazey's was, I take a good look at it and will perhaps ammend my post, as I did in her case. Bitter hostile posts using cuss words and such are just background noise as I see it. Such posters have the right to post here also and I respect that. They are entitled to their say and other ESMB members can judge whether they agree with those types of posts or not.

It took me a long time to see that there were essentially 5 types of groups who were reading and/or posting on ESMB. Three of the five were the ones I covered in my recent post. The 4th group is composed of people who were never in Scientology but are researching it as scholars or just out of interest. Of course the 5th group are OSA plants pretending to be exes.

I said the 3 groups were a very broad subdivision and that each group TENDED to have certain characteristics. Some in group 3 say they are different; they did not experience this or that trait which I mentioned. I say again that my classifications are broad and not detailed.

I have dealt with dozens of Group 3 people and most of them share some of these traits. THE THING IN GROUP 3 IS THAT THEY NOT ONLY DON'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT THEMSELVES BUT THEY FIGHT WITH PASSION AGAINST ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT ANY PART OF THE SUBJECT HAS VALUE OR CAN ACTUALLY HELP ANYONE. It is important to know this!!

They have every right to leave the group and its subject behind and move on with their lives but why do they fight so hard to dissuade all others from saying that any part of the subject has actually helped anyone. IT IS THIS QUESTION WHICH CAUSES ONE TO WANT TO "PULL A STRING" TO SEE WHY THEY DO THIS WITH SO MUCH PASSION AND SO MUCH FORCE, often including cussing and downgrading anyone who differs with their opinion!

The most compelling reason which I have found for this type of behavior is what I have said above and that usually involves a family being broken up, a business being destroyed or someone's health and finances being ruined or a love one dieing while in C of S. This might not always be the case. Maybe someone such as Olska is just being altruistic and feels strongly that the subject is harmful and doesn't want exes or brand new people to use it. This is certainly possible.

What puzzles me is that if someone agrees that the basic subject is bad but insists that they got some major gains out of certain parts of the subject and want to keep using those parts, an altruistic person would let it go at that. The fact that group 3's do not let go at that point and never stop fighting that person shows me that there must be something else driving them other than only altruism.

Anyway, when someone such as Mich comes on the board, I just want to share some of the insights which I built up over 2 years or so on ESMB so as to speed up her search for truths on this forum. People arriving newly on ESMB do not know there are several opposing factions here which will be giving them advice and encouragement. There is no need to go on a treadmill for months before they figure this out. Why not just tell them up front that different factions exist so that they will know what to expect?
Lakey

Lakey,

I’ve decided to respond to your post on Mich’s Thread here so as to not derail the “New guy on the block” Thread. As we all know, there’s no such thing as “derailing” on the Apollo Thread.

Spare me the self-righteous show-boating indignation. Just because that Thread was started by a Newbie I’m not gonna give you a “Pass” on your BS. Honestly Lakey, if that’s how you see ESMB and your fellow ESMBers I truly feel sorry for you.

There was no malice in my “WTF” it but you chose to see malice. It was a simple “WTF” and you knew exactly what I was talking about. You pontificated on the “make-up” of the Board, explained everyone here with some off the wall “analysis” invention about the “factions” and “groups” and “types” here. Later, when you get called on it to you say it’s just an opinion and then give more off the wall analysis about the “types” here to try and reinforce it as careful quasi statistical analysis and more than an opinion. Not only do I disagree with your BS “Analysis”, you do a great disservice to a Newbie by your off the wall, “Authoritative", "Years of Experience", "Long Time To See", "Tech Data" explanation about the rest of Us here. Amending posts after someone calls you on something is intellectually dishonest and emotionally chicken shit.

I was just gonna post the Icon but the last time I commented on a post of yours with an Icon you wrote half a ream about my choice of "words" and what the Icon "meant", so I just said "WTF? ".

ESMB is not, IMO, “Factions”, “Groups”, “Types” or whatever else you see it as “Compartmentalized” or “Explained” by…Gawd, didn’t we all get enough of that in Scn? ESMB is just Folks, like thee and me who, again IMO, are trying to figure out WTF happened, HTF do I make sense of “it”, WTF do I do now and WTF can I talk with that will “Grok” me, not judge me and or try to “Guru” me . Here on this Board are the words and stories of folk from every era, continent, processing level, “Tech” training level and “Admin” training level…Up to and including Class XII’s trained by Hisself, OT 8’s and FEBC’s/DSEC’s…And there is also the words and stories of Folks that knew El Ron and were the actual “source” of some of the “Breakthrough’s” El Ron bragged about Hisself having done.

As far as the “bitter” goes…I’m not bitter at all…My more than 100,000 words on this Board about my personal experience with El Ron, MSH, Flag Crew and SO, spanning the time from the inception of the SO to El Ron’s death, should clearly show that. I’ve said numerous times that it was my path and I wouldn’t change it…You know that…You commented on some of those posts. You chose to paint me with another one of your Grandstanding “Holier Than Thow” and Scn-like Pigeonholing brushes.

As far as the “cuss words” go…Oh, really? You’ve used the “F” word, all four letters, in a number of posts in the past…as well as other “cuss words”. I suppose to you then when you use them it’s okay but when someone else uses initials…like the “WTF Is Scientology” Thread that’s currently active on ESMB…they should be dismissed as also just a bunch of “bitter” folks that are, like me, “just background noise”. Ironic and hypocritical you would refer to me in such a dismissive way.

Okay, I’ve had my say. As always I yield the last word to you. You are free to do your customary misquote, misrepresent, reinterpret and “explain” me, my words and thoughts and post whatever BS you wish to in the future and I won’t call you on it. I promise you this will never happen again as I will never again comment on any future Posts you make on ESMB. You are free to enlighten everyone as to just what “Category”, “Type” and “Faction” I am and I will not refute you. Also, I will never again post my “Background Noise” on “Your Thread”...I’m outta here. I just don’t have any more time or stamina or stomach for jumping on your hamster wheel with you.

I sincerely appreciate your contributions to ESMB and your helpfulness in the past to me.

Peace.

Face

PS: Be seein' all Y'all around the Rodeo.