How OT was Elron?

[Mystic]

There is no such state of being "OT" as Hubbard hallucinated. There never has been, never will be. One of the great purposes of allowing such a farce as scientology to exist is to let people find out what spirit is not. That is it's major purpose.

[Ladybird]

IMO Hubbard was a very talented con man with sociopathic tendencies and psychological issues and maybe even some serious psychiatric problems.

Here is my write-up from back when I got out:

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Hubbard's Background:
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=466
by Ladybird

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize if this discussion seems off topic, but I think it is important as background to current scientology subterfuge such as we are seeing here with these CCHR leaks. Also, I think it is important to establish relationships even though we are almost all anonymous. There are so many boards and so many forums within each board. Cold hard facts are good, but I find I am learning so much from sharing ideas with the anon, and I hope some of my experience and research can help explain things about scientologists and why they do what they do.I spent (wasted) most of my adult life in scientology, so I have been very interested in finding out what it was all about.

That said; I think L. Ron Hubbard was a paranoid schizophrenic. IMO, he was probably also bipolar (manic depressive) and it is not unusual for these disorders to co-occur. Why they occur is something not yet known to science, but he had plenty of precursors.

I imagine he studied everything he could get his hands on to try to figure out what was wrong with himself. It is known he was treated in a psychiatric hospital, and I am sure he was very angry they couldn't "fix" him. Maybe that is when he turned his considerable intellect and manic energy to studying, on his own, different religions and practices, including Satanism. When none of it gave him the answers he was looking for (and who among us didn't spend their youth and young adulthood looking for answers?) he decided to make up his own. So he "thought for himself" and made up a "workable technology" using parts of what he read, studied and experimented with that explained everything the way he wanted it to be.

Being an imaginative and energetic writer, he wrote what he had made up, and people bought it! So he wrote some more, and they bought that too! He was really on to something! But being still a paranoid, he could not tolerate criticism or failure of any kind or the depression would kick in. Thus the focus on secrecy and security and undercover ops that eventually became a monster. He needed constant attention and admiration to keep away his demons, so he used his knowledge of black magic, psychology, hypnotism etc. to create traps to keep people from leaving him. Thus the Sea Org was born. However, he remained paranoid, always watching for the least sign of disaffection. Daring to question or critisize or anything less than complete adoration drove him into a frenzy, and he could not tolerate it. Thus the RPF was born. Also SPs and Declares and Disconnection.

I believe he used "rum and pink and greys" and massive amounts of other drugs and alcohol to self medicate in an attempt to keep his demons at bay. His high tolerance is not unusual in manics or schizophrenics, and is of course exacerbated by long term abuse of these substances.

The bigger his creation got, the more out of his control it seemed, and the more he tried to control it. Thus began the dwindling spiral, for LRH and for his "religion".

The logical end result of my theory would be that LRH would descend into complete madness and die screaming about the body thetans infesting him. They were his own creation. So I believe that story, too.

I think that is why you do see some workable technology at the beginning of the bridge, and it gradually, on a gradient scale, leads you up the bridge to madness.

Saying things like "I will only use what works for me" is like saying "I will only use enough methamphetimine to lose a little weight". You will soon want more and more. And justify why it is really the right thing to do. It is a very slippery slope, and it is much wiser to go play somewhere else rather than at the edge of an abyss.

Many have fallen into the abyss of scientology. Some make it out, but it is not easy. Many have died along the way.

Blaming someone for falling off a cliff by saying "well, he was weaker than me, or there must have been something wrong with him" is one of the traps of scientology. If anything bad happens it is because that person is out ethics or pts or has o/ws. That would never happen to you because you are upstat and good and honest.

Things happen in life and they aren't all good, but they aren't all your fault either. And you can't stop them from happening with all the imaginary OT powers in the world.

The psychological term for this is "Magical Thinking" and it is a normal stage that children go through. Do you remember feeling that something was all your fault? Maybe your parents divorced, or your dog died and you thought "If only I loved them enough or didn't think that bad thought this wouldn't have happened."?

Scientology makes you believe that magical thinking you grew out of when your brain matured was really the truth! That being OT means you really can control everything with your thoughts alone. Thoughts are powerful, but that's another subject. OTs cannot stop tsunamis or hurricanes or "knock off hats at 50 yards..." (HOM). There is no such thing as an OT, it was just a figment of LRHs deluded imagination. If you believe it, you are a deluded adherent of scientology.

[Rmack]

to answer this question, I recommend you watch this video;

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ6ZC8EUQ0

[Hatshepsut]

CUTE VID.

[Rmack]

CUTE VID.

take long, slow breaths, and you'll be OK

[Hatshepsut]

[Ladybird]

Derren Brown could be another Hubbard if he wasn't such a nice guy.

In the following videos and articles he shows how con men use covert hypnotism and other tricks to manipulate people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown


Derren Brown "instant conversion" part 1



Derren Brown "instant conversion" (explained)



Staring competition



Derren Brown - "Paying with Paper"


_________________
"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH in "A History of Man"

[Vinaire]

I know this thread is about Ron's OT Powers. I think perhaps his most OT Power was creating a "religion" to make millions of dollars. Maybe a humanitarian thrust was there at some point, but one only need to look at the CO$ to see Ron's personality manifestations everywhere.

I'm sorry to say this to you at3ist, but what you described as your OT abilities are subjective and cannot be proven. Though they may appear to be so to you, as I read them I can't see any evidence. Hell, I've guessed the exact time on many occasions. I'm sure many many other folks have too. I also used to go "exterior" a lot before I was "OT". But again that is subjective too. Are you are happy about these "abilities" even though it wasn't NEAR what the CO$ promised? If so, isn't this just a compromise on the CO$ promises that you are settling for?

I'm OT V too and I'm pissed off! I spent a lot of time and money that I didn't have to do it. I just filled the CO$ coffers. I have no more abilities now than your average "wog" or from before I joined the "I Wanna Go OT Club".

Were these abilities the fantastic abilities promised? I think not.

To me, the most incredible OT ability is "the ability to create one's own thought knowingly."

I wonder why this gets overlooked! Ahhh... THINKING overtakes LOOKING.

.

[Vinaire]

.

I think that LRH was still extremely connected to the Magic Universe which would've probably been the one before this one . I don't know what he was doing here..whether he was kicked out or pushed into this one. One thing is for sure...he did not think it was natural to be being a homo sapiens or an earth human. He had a different point of reference. His point of reference was in a magical world that responded to his WILL. One in which humans were his slaves as he was still in the state of being a god. Ron was so identified with it that he was doing experiments and drills to get it back.
Now maybe the Magic Universe happens to be all of our previous universes'. But LRH was still conscious and vividly aware of it. He, like so many others, felt man was asleep
I have come to a conclusion after experiencing a few things, that BTs are not just stuck in incidents..they are BEING incidents. For example if Krakatoa blew up... by the extreme impact, some have a coincidence of viewpoint with the clouds, some with the lava, some with the heat. The life force around one would still be BEING those things. Kept dormant you would be OK. If you'd a bad key-in you might find yourself in a replication, a re-enactment with specified roles being acted.
The thing with the MAGIC universe is that one had to be made to feel like he was unethical in order to postulate his own life force into becoming mechanisms of his own entrapment. These mechanisms in the mind become automations. These could then DO things to the individual if he tried to re-enter the Magic echelon again. My experience has been that a being actually chops himself up to make these other pieces of himself his prison guards. The magicians knew how to make these portions of an individual BE certain things. We knew too. They go into action against us and carry out their function. We don't let ourselves out if we are bad. Ethics, ethics, ethics. Ron knew what the score was with this. However, he felt he was different. DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE ALL OF THE LAW. He must've resurfaced and submerged a LOT. He could not find his own counter-intention because he was ABOVE THE LAW.

Let's take a LOOK what is there... now :D

.

[KnightVision]

IMO Hubbard was a very talented con man with sociopathic tendencies and psychological issues and maybe even some serious psychiatric problems.

Here is my write-up from back when I got out:

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Hubbard's Background:
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=466
by Ladybird

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize if this discussion seems off topic, but I think it is important as background to current scientology subterfuge such as we are seeing here with these CCHR leaks. Also, I think it is important to establish relationships even though we are almost all anonymous. There are so many boards and so many forums within each board. Cold hard facts are good, but I find I am learning so much from sharing ideas with the anon, and I hope some of my experience and research can help explain things about scientologists and why they do what they do.I spent (wasted) most of my adult life in scientology, so I have been very interested in finding out what it was all about.

That said; I think L. Ron Hubbard was a paranoid schizophrenic. IMO, he was probably also bipolar (manic depressive) and it is not unusual for these disorders to co-occur. Why they occur is something not yet known to science, but he had plenty of precursors.

I imagine he studied everything he could get his hands on to try to figure out what was wrong with himself. It is known he was treated in a psychiatric hospital, and I am sure he was very angry they couldn't "fix" him. Maybe that is when he turned his considerable intellect and manic energy to studying, on his own, different religions and practices, including Satanism. When none of it gave him the answers he was looking for (and who among us didn't spend their youth and young adulthood looking for answers?) he decided to make up his own. So he "thought for himself" and made up a "workable technology" using parts of what he read, studied and experimented with that explained everything the way he wanted it to be.

Being an imaginative and energetic writer, he wrote what he had made up, and people bought it! So he wrote some more, and they bought that too! He was really on to something! But being still a paranoid, he could not tolerate criticism or failure of any kind or the depression would kick in. Thus the focus on secrecy and security and undercover ops that eventually became a monster. He needed constant attention and admiration to keep away his demons, so he used his knowledge of black magic, psychology, hypnotism etc. to create traps to keep people from leaving him. Thus the Sea Org was born. However, he remained paranoid, always watching for the least sign of disaffection. Daring to question or critisize or anything less than complete adoration drove him into a frenzy, and he could not tolerate it. Thus the RPF was born. Also SPs and Declares and Disconnection.

I believe he used "rum and pink and greys" and massive amounts of other drugs and alcohol to self medicate in an attempt to keep his demons at bay. His high tolerance is not unusual in manics or schizophrenics, and is of course exacerbated by long term abuse of these substances.

The bigger his creation got, the more out of his control it seemed, and the more he tried to control it. Thus began the dwindling spiral, for LRH and for his "religion".

The logical end result of my theory would be that LRH would descend into complete madness and die screaming about the body thetans infesting him. They were his own creation. So I believe that story, too.

I think that is why you do see some workable technology at the beginning of the bridge, and it gradually, on a gradient scale, leads you up the bridge to madness.

Saying things like "I will only use what works for me" is like saying "I will only use enough methamphetimine to lose a little weight". You will soon want more and more. And justify why it is really the right thing to do. It is a very slippery slope, and it is much wiser to go play somewhere else rather than at the edge of an abyss.

Many have fallen into the abyss of scientology. Some make it out, but it is not easy. Many have died along the way.

Blaming someone for falling off a cliff by saying "well, he was weaker than me, or there must have been something wrong with him" is one of the traps of scientology. If anything bad happens it is because that person is out ethics or pts or has o/ws. That would never happen to you because you are upstat and good and honest.

Things happen in life and they aren't all good, but they aren't all your fault either. And you can't stop them from happening with all the imaginary OT powers in the world.

The psychological term for this is "Magical Thinking" and it is a normal stage that children go through. Do you remember feeling that something was all your fault? Maybe your parents divorced, or your dog died and you thought "If only I loved them enough or didn't think that bad thought this wouldn't have happened."?

Scientology makes you believe that magical thinking you grew out of when your brain matured was really the truth! That being OT means you really can control everything with your thoughts alone. Thoughts are powerful, but that's another subject. OTs cannot stop tsunamis or hurricanes or "knock off hats at 50 yards..." (HOM). There is no such thing as an OT, it was just a figment of LRHs deluded imagination. If you believe it, you are a deluded adherent of scientology.

Bulls-eye!