Children Stolen by the Sea Org

[clamicide]

It's the cult which is to blame here - The many caring loving parents have and are often going with what they know and feel, and going with what they do believe is right, despite 'personal' heartbreak or loss on the matter.

Many of the parents have been of the mind that their kids came to them, as Scientologists - to a Scn family. Many are of the mind that they have no right to stop their children "following their purpose line". Many have considered that they would always be there if their child got into trouble, and that if it didn't work out as was planned, then their child would be free to leave. And the biggest factor I think, is that many of them are unaware and oblivious to the everyday abuses within the Sea Org - If they were aware of the abuses, the vast majority of Scn parents who have allowed their minors to join the SO would never have done so.

Mostly these parents don't know the scene. It's one of the reasons why it is so important that we let them know about it - Firstly by posting and telling it how it was and is, and secondly by directing those we know to the specific relevant info.

While the parents have been and are at fault here, it has been so without their knowledge. Let's not blame the parents - They are not the cause or source of all this. They have fallen prey, and then so too have their children.

Thank you. I knew if I replied to some earlier posts I'd have gotten called on infractions. Like we don't KNOW....NOW??? and don't beat the hell out ourselves almost every day? Really thought that my son would be ok....thought it was just my little org that was fucked up and off-policy. Thought in a perfect on-Source world, in the SO he'd be happy. The son that stayed behind and has also left the cult? We're best friends. Thinks I'm the greatest mom in the world and has forgiven me. I FUCKED UP! I was lied to! Don't worry...I do feel bad. I read some posts and my initial reaction is to want to slit my wrists. Not going there at ALL (I'm a bit of the drama queen and I am healing from all this cult crap) but, we know...we know. You can't beat us up more than we've beaten ourselves up. I haven't been posting to my story lately, but I think I need to get back to it again pretty soon. Us parents who went through this sort of thing, who believed that we were doing the "greatest good" are out there, and need to tell the tale. Not to "justify", but just so that people can see there are real human beings behind all of this tragedy. Thanks again, Carmel. ugh, I'm posting off of emotion, so I hope this makes some sense, because I'm not up to rereading and correcting it.

[Tiger Lily]

Other cultures?

I'm not a leftist. I don't believe in the multi-cultie nihilism-warmed-over post-modernist bullshit. That kind of crap has no traction with me. Cultures that mistreat their children are WRONG. The misogynistic cultures that treat daughters as propery are WRONG. I say this not out of some arrogance about my own culture, but from the knowledge that life in those cultures is harsh, bleak, and short. Life in the US and in other cultures that are products of the enlightenment is heaven on earth by comparison.

The culture of Scientology is EXTREMELY WRONG. For someone to be continually lied to is wrong. For someone to be continually defrauded is wrong. For someone to be enslaved is wrong. Scientology is an evil cult. Being wrong is what it excels at. Everything that the cult says is either a lie, or a small truth intended to promote a larger falsehood. Everything the cult does is either expressly malicious, or is a small kindness performed to try and fool the public into thinking that it is good. This is not by accident. Scientology is the creation of a sociopathic con man and it is currently being run by another sociopath. But even if it were to somehow fall into the hands of a virtuous and noble leader, the most he or she could do would be to destroy it, for its nature and its identity is evil to the core.

Parents who subject their children to the SO are unfit. It doesn't matter what their feelings are. It doesn't matter what their CULT-ure says. They are mentally incompetent and morally bankrupt. They are a threat and a menace to their own offspring and should be removed as that child's guardians.



I'm glad that you proved yourself to be a fit parent.

The truly dedicated however, are truly wrong.



Charlie Manson's followers did what they thought was right too. It isn't an excuse.




Don't ask silly questions if you expect me to take you seriously in the future. Had the initial poster's story talked about a father, I would have written about fathers.

Lee I'm not a leftist either. We are in complete agreement that the cult is evil. Agreed, it is WRONG, as are cultures that mistreat people. But someone in such a society has been indoctrinated to believe that it's OK. Were they to go against what their culture dictates they would never survive in that culture. Of course it's wrong, but they are doing what they believe to be right at the time.

Part of the evil of the cult is the way it is able to twist peoples' ability to think and reason. I just really think we need to have compassion for these parents . . . In the first place they are going against their instincts because of a belief and "cult"ural pressure; and second, once they truly understand wtf is going on with Scientology, they will go through hell trying to come to terms with it.

Carmel and Clamicide did a great job addressing this in previous posts.

-TL

[Tiger Lily]

It's the cult which is to blame here - The many caring loving parents have and are often going with what they know and feel, and going with what they do believe is right, despite 'personal' heartbreak or loss on the matter.

Many of the parents have been of the mind that their kids came to them, as Scientologists - to a Scn family. Many are of the mind that they have no right to stop their children "following their purpose line". Many have considered that they would always be there if their child got into trouble, and that if it didn't work out as was planned, then their child would be free to leave. And the biggest factor I think, is that many of them are unaware and oblivious to the everyday abuses within the Sea Org - If they were aware of the abuses, the vast majority of Scn parents who have allowed their minors to join the SO would never have done so.

Mostly these parents don't know the scene. It's one of the reasons why it is so important that we let them know about it - Firstly by posting and telling it how it was and is, and secondly by directing those we know to the specific relevant info.

While the parents have been and are at fault here, it has been so without their knowledge. Let's not blame the parents - They are not the cause or source of all this. They have fallen prey, and then so too have their children.

Thank you. I knew if I replied to some earlier posts I'd have gotten called on infractions. Like we don't KNOW....NOW??? and don't beat the hell out ourselves almost every day? Really thought that my son would be ok....thought it was just my little org that was fucked up and off-policy. Thought in a perfect on-Source world, in the SO he'd be happy. The son that stayed behind and has also left the cult? We're best friends. Thinks I'm the greatest mom in the world and has forgiven me. I FUCKED UP! I was lied to! Don't worry...I do feel bad. I read some posts and my initial reaction is to want to slit my wrists. Not going there at ALL (I'm a bit of the drama queen and I am healing from all this cult crap) but, we know...we know. You can't beat us up more than we've beaten ourselves up. I haven't been posting to my story lately, but I think I need to get back to it again pretty soon. Us parents who went through this sort of thing, who believed that we were doing the "greatest good" are out there, and need to tell the tale. Not to "justify", but just so that people can see there are real human beings behind all of this tragedy. Thanks again, Carmel. ugh, I'm posting off of emotion, so I hope this makes some sense, because I'm not up to rereading and correcting it.

Thank you to both of you. THIS is what people need to see. THIS is the tragedy of what is going on in Scientology and what it is doing to families.

Carmel -- you laid it out perfectly. Very well stated.

Clami -- I'm glad you posted out of emotion. It's so important to tell the story of the toll this takes on people. It's not a cold cerebral discussion we are having here. It's about real people and real families and brainwashing and the toll that takes in the lives of those who have lived it.

I applaud those of you who have gone through this and are willing to post about it. It's incredibly courageous to do so and to put yourself out there in such a way. It's through you guys and your stories that people will understand the depth of insidiousness in Scientology.

-TL

[Free to shine]

It's the cult which is to blame here - The many caring loving parents have and are often going with what they know and feel, and going with what they do believe is right, despite 'personal' heartbreak or loss on the matter.

Many of the parents have been of the mind that their kids came to them, as Scientologists - to a Scn family. Many are of the mind that they have no right to stop their children "following their purpose line". Many have considered that they would always be there if their child got into trouble, and that if it didn't work out as was planned, then their child would be free to leave. And the biggest factor I think, is that many of them are unaware and oblivious to the everyday abuses within the Sea Org - If they were aware of the abuses, the vast majority of Scn parents who have allowed their minors to join the SO would never have done so.

Mostly these parents don't know the scene. It's one of the reasons why it is so important that we let them know about it - Firstly by posting and telling it how it was and is, and secondly by directing those we know to the specific relevant info.

While the parents have been and are at fault here, it has been so without their knowledge. Let's not blame the parents - They are not the cause or source of all this. They have fallen prey, and then so too have their children.

Yes, exactly.

When they came after my kids the line was used that I as a parent was only a 'caretaker' for my kids and they needed to be free to follow their own purposes. (As if they knew what they were at such a young age!) I said "fine, come see me again when they turn 18" and stood my ground until they backed off. Unfortunately one was later roped onto staff, ineligible for SO thank goodness and lasted a couple of days before exiting a screaming mess. It was a dreadful time, thankfully we all survived.

[Markus]

I've seen a lot of underage kids in sea org without parents.The all have guardians (normaly somebosy in HCO like HAS or something like that .)
Lots of kids from other countries.(In some countries once you're 16 ,you are an audult even under US law you're still a minor)But young kids who are Sea Org members still have to go to public school (under the florida law)and learn English.

Hi russian girl. Welcome to this board. I recommend you to read Chaotic Psychotics Thread about her Sea Org career.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=4840

and the "school" in the Sea Org is a joke! This all is a big trap especially for young people and it is hard to get back in real life and sometimes this trap is ending very cruel as you can see in reading the story of my brother:

http://anonforgreatjustice.blogspot....actly-how.html

Best wishes from Germany

Markus

[Opter]

They got my daughter to sign a SO contract when she was 15 yo and my husband and myself told them and her, that only when she'd be of legal age.................

About a year later she didn't anything to do with Scientology.

Opter

[Panda Termint]

Phew, close call.
Keep 'em coming, parents and kids.

[Outethicsofficer]

My name is James Anderson I will post my story later and is really a story for another time and obviously, if you haven't worked it out I am "outethicsofficer." I held both the MAA & DIR I&R posts at the AOSH ANZO up until I blew. Hence the handle.:

I really want to throw off the shackles of Scientology so I will post in my own name now. Dulloldfart said on a post a while back "they should have no more effect on you than anyone else walking down the street" so true, so true. thanks for that Dulloldfart.

1988 I blew the SO. left my family there including 2 very young children, how fucked was that? Yep, I got declared for the blow but I ought to have been declared for abandoning my kids. In fact I declare myself for doing that.
I remarried, we are very happy and we have a beautiful daughter who is now nearly 20.

Well I did the A to E and got back into good standing. I will tell more when I post my story later, In that I will let you know what I did. For now I have one thing to say.


STAND UP FOR YOUR CHILDREN.
Prior to Christmas 2008 we became aware our daughter was not happy, she didn't elaborate but observation told us enough and we pushed her for details. Then in January I got a call from her... "Dad I am so excited, I am going to be promoted to Flag to be crew at the Fort Harrison and I am going tomorrow"....my response "How the fuck does that work, I am not happy about it and we will be a problem" I let her know to tell her senior "Dad is not happy and will not support my going to Flag."

It was a carrot, another thing to put there to keep her in the SO plus it would get her away from us! We were already on the radar, we were disaffected.

By the time we got the call from our daughter regards going to Flag we had become aware of the efforts our daughter had made to leave the SO, so at best she was in doubt about being there. Now she was being 8C'd to Flag!!

There were of course the phone calls and our daughter was allowed to come and see us, she had been drilled on how to "handle" us. We are old hands and have done some hard yards so we can pick the bullshit. We are not easy to handle.


Over the next couple of weeks my wife and I looked at what was happening and decided, we demanded our daughter be put on a LSRF and that they had a week to get her through it. As we would be up to get her regardless, with or without her personal effects we would take her as she was. We would not be negotiated with there was no lengthy discussions.

Then we took the time right out of it, we did what has been done to us so often, we took the time out of it and said we would be up to pick her up 5 days sooner than was expected, this created some pandemonium and confused motion.

There were phone calls from org terminals, as you'd expect, I was asked, "what LRH policy are you applying!"...."hmm let me see; none I know of" was my reply. That ended the conversation.

We never wavered, we arrived when we said we would, we chose to meet at Central Station, we wanted a very public venue.
Wayne Peachey came along with our daughter on time and after a brief discussion with Wayne we allowed the LSRF to proceed, mainly because we were told it would reflect badly on family still in the SO...we are reasonable people after all


My wife stayed in Sydney and waited outside the AO daily until we had our daughter in the car it took three days and they were out of there.

Keep an eye open for a posting soon with more detail. My wife will write that. She has a lot to say!!!

Up until September last year, I was right in there pitching, we are Patrons of the IAS etc etc. I am well known around our local org, now I am posting on the message board.
The final straw for me was finding out my daughter was not being allowed to go on a LSRF, she had attempted to leave many times over a 3 year period but had been "handled on wanting to leave" each time, she would be promised different posts auditing etc to keep here there, remember our daughter wanted to be in the SO from an early age. But because of broken promises and disillusionment with management and the way things were as opposed to the way things had been described about the SO, she had within 6 months of joining wanted out.
However we only became aware of the situation just prior to Xmas. We pushed her to tell us what was going on, prior to this she would never tell us of things, as they were always "Sea Org matters" not to be discussed outside of the SO.
We could see she was not happy We decided regardless of the ramifications we would make a stand, Our daughter was 19ys old and we owed it to her to call it as we saw it. She is extremely grateful we did.


So now I post on the message board and I no longer consider myself a Scientologist.
We were once extremely proud to have our daughters in the Sea Org. My wife has a daughter still in CMO at Flag.
We now feel so strongly about what we know in regard to the church so I no longer feel the need to hide behind a handle as such, I am amazed at how blind I was before
My wife woke up 3 years ago and waited for me to go WTF, I run a longer comm lag, if there is such a thing.
I know of "good Scientologists" who would NOT like their children to go into the SO, these are staunch supporters of the church yet they won't do that, why not?

Well somewhere in the answer there should be reason enough for them to start speaking up and at least protest the things they see...cowards.

They kid themselves that they can go free with that sitting there

We are talking about OT's, nah they would rather look out for their own "Bridge" progress than speak up.


James Anderson
OEO

[Miss Withhold]

My name is James Anderson I will post my story later and is really a story for another time and obviously, if you haven't worked it out I am "outethicsofficer."

Go Jimi boi!!!

So glad to be able to say g'day to you here on the board. Love your work Jimbo.

Looking like the ANZO family is expanding...

[Outethicsofficer]

Thanks MWH,
Enough of the hero BS, I hope others will see the whole thing for what it is and do the same what are they gonna do attack us all??

Boy they will be busy!

OEO
James Anderson

Go Jimi boi!!!

So glad to be able to say g'day to you here on the board. Love your work Jimbo.

Looking like the ANZO family is expanding...

My name is James Anderson, I have a larger story to tell but for now I just want to say. GO AND GET YOUR CHILDREN!!! WE DID. We looked at what was happening and decided, we demanded our daughter be put on a LSRF and that they had a week to get her through it. No negotiations and no lengthy discussions, then we did what has been done to us so often, we took the time out of it and said we would be up to pick her up 5 days sooner than expected...pandemonium aptly describes the motion created by this change in plans. There were phone calls from org terminals, as you'd expect, however we never wavered we arrived and after a brief discussion allowed LSRF to proceed, mainly because we were told my wife stayed in Sydney and waited outside the AO daily until we had our daughter in the car it took three days and they were out of there.

Keep an eye open for a posting soon with more detail. My wife will write that. She has a lot to say!!!

Up until September last year, I was right in there pitching, we are Patrons of the IAS etc etc.. Now here we are, we were proud to have our daughter in the Sea Org. My wife has a daughter in CMO Flag, but we now feel so strongly about what we know