Embarrassed to be a scientologist

[FinallyMe]

Snip -- The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?

Yes, I did - the problem was that I GOT it, having simply read the bulletin - doing the drill was overrun because I knew how it was going to come out - nothing was going to happen, just like the drill said, so it felt stupid.

But AT LEAST I didn't have the mortifying experience that the ASHO students had (old ASHO) - many of them were doing the drill outside, with non-Scn's all around! I'd have died!

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

What I find interesting about various posts I see about that particular upper indoc TR is that they never mention that the yelling is only one part of the drill, that there's a part where one speaks in a normal tone of voice and a part where one is silent. Therefore, the yelling comprises roughly one third of the drill. The whole point of the drill is to teach the person that yelling, speaking normally or being silent are not the things that cause the ashtray to be raised.

Did any of you actually do and understand this drill?

Well, the purpose of the drill is clearly expressed in the course material, and you are not allowed to do the drill without reading the course material first. It is a bit hard to believe that someone would think that the purpose of the drill is about shouting.

Do you have a referrence for the above? Or, is it just 'Verbal Tech'?
... snip ...

I found my old HAS course booklet, it is more than 35 years old but I still have it although I haven't done any of those drills for years. Anyway, the booklet contains the TRs 0-9. The material on TR 8 (the drill with the ashtray) is rather precise. It emphasizes as clear as crystal, that intention has nothing to do with words and that intention has nothing to do with voice. The drill is done in different ways, by shouting, by using normal voice, by using the wrong words and by 100% silence. I remember it as a fun way to exercise one's ability to focus.

[Voltaire's Child]

Hello, Soulful One,

I've seen so many posts on various critical forums about the yelling at ashtrays thing. And many (though not all) of them were written by ex members. On and on about the yelling. Yet each of them read the HCOB before doing the drill.

I know exactly what this is...

[well_that_sucked]

Well, the purpose of the drill is clearly expressed in the course material, and you are not allowed to do the drill without reading the course material first. It is a bit hard to believe that someone would think that the purpose of the drill is about shouting.



I found my old HAS course booklet, it is more than 35 years old but I still have it although I haven't done any of those drills for years. Anyway, the booklet contains the TRs 0-9. The material on TR 8 (the drill with the ashtray) is rather precise. It emphasizes as clear as crystal, that intention has nothing to do with words and that intention has nothing to do with voice. The drill is done in different ways, by shouting, by using normal voice, by using the wrong words and by 100% silence. I remember it as a fun way to exercise one's ability to focus.

A fun way to focus is to talk and yell at inanimate objects like an ashtray?

Will a 'mater do?



I guess the hubturd figured if he's going to convince people they can talk to dead aliens on the ot levels, having them talk to ashtrays is a good place to start.

[Voltaire's Child]

Yes, I did - the problem was that I GOT it, having simply read the bulletin - doing the drill was overrun because I knew how it was going to come out - nothing was going to happen, just like the drill said, so it felt stupid.

But AT LEAST I didn't have the mortifying experience that the ASHO students had (old ASHO) - many of them were doing the drill outside, with non-Scn's all around! I'd have died!

Yes, doing it outside would be ridiculous. It would be a breach of all the policies that say not to alienate people with an "Out R" situation...I always did the drill in a basement or store room or something like that.

Now, re yr first paragraph-- I have noticed, in general, in life, that there's a difference between intellectually getting or understanding something and in truly getting or grokking it, so to speak. It is my opinion that this is why that drill and other drills are done.

[Alanzo]

This thread is permeated with a negativity, denial, and bitterness that will eat you alive.

There is nothing at the end of that road. It is self-destructive, self-denying, and just as untruthful as the happy-clappy, rah! rah!, SCIENTOLOGY WORKS! viewpoint.

The reason it will eat you alive, as an ex-Scientologist, is because it is NOT TRUE.

After 9 years as an EX, and as one who has been through that phase of getting out, let me tell you why:

You got something out of it - or else you would have never gotten involved.

Denying that is denying your true self, and it is denying a purpose you created for yourself long before you ever met up with Scientology, and one that you will have long after Scientology. In the end, Scientology was just one way-station you stopped at along your way. It does not define you, nor does it define the purpose you created for yourself and the way you intended to live your life.

To thine own self be true.

It is very easy to make it all wrong, but it is destructive and wasteful. And it is a lie you tell yourself for your own vanity.

Stop it.

[olska]

I don't think it's a question of not understanding the drill, I think it's more a matter of the drill not needing to be quite so retarded in order to get it's simple point across ... But then again that could be said for the vast majority of Hubbard's material.

Ummm, ya, so true!

It's part of the "training" which imo is designed to gradually convince you that you know something reeely reeely special and important and valuable...

...while in fact it takes your attention from the broad arena of life with all its many challenges and opportunities and focuses it exclusively on the very narrow path of scientology's Bridge to Financial and Emotional Bankruptcy.

don't forget: more than half the "gains" of scientology are from training!

[well_that_sucked]

This thread is permeated with a negativity, denial, and bitterness that will eat you alive. There is nothing at the end of that road. It is self-destructive, self-denying, and just as untruthful as the happy-clappy, rah! rah!, SCIENTOLOGY WORKS! viewpoint.

The reason it will eat you alive, as an ex-Scientologist, is because it is NOT TRUE.

After 9 years as an EX, and as one who has been through that phase of getting out. let me tell you why:

You got something out of it - or else you would have never gotten involved.

Denying that is denying your true self, and it is denying a purpose you created for yourself long before you ever met up with Scientology. And one that you will have long after Scientology.

To thine own self be true.

It is very easy to make it all wrong, but it is destructive and wasteful.

Stop it.

I am being very true to myself.

People have died, been driven to suicide, conned out of all their money, and a list of other sordid acts as a result of the proper application of scientology technology.

The same technology that is being used on people right now, in and out of scientology proper.

Why is it the FZ chronies, and the slithering weaselly types, can spew how great scientology is with impunity, but expressing very real and honest emotions like; anger for being conned, embarrassment for talking to ashtrays, and guilt for helping the cult screw over society, isn't acceptable to you?

Should we only make the "mother fuckers" pay in the manner you see fit?

Scientology is a brutal joke on all of us, the problem is, its not very funny.

[Alanzo]

I am being very true to myself.

People have died, been driven to suicide, conned out of all their money, and a list of other sordid acts as a result of the proper application of scientology technology.

The same technology that is being used on people right now, in and out of scientology proper.

I completely agree with you.

But YOU did not do that. YOU were doing something else.

Why is it the FZ chronies, and the slithering weaselly types, can spew how great scientology is with impunity, but expressing very real and honest emotions like; anger for being conned, embarrassment for talking to ashtrays, and guilt for helping the cult screw over society, isn't acceptable to you?

It is totally acceptable to me. In fact, I engage in it often.

I have felt that guilt, and that embarrassment, and that anger. I have indulged it like a very fat man in a cake factory.

I'm just imparting what I learned from indulging it oh so lusciously.

It leads no where, and it denies the part of you, the GOOD part of you that was pursuing a worthwhile purpose before you got "trolled" by L Ron Hubbard.

There was a guy on ARS - Jommy Cross - who had that as his sigline: "Hubbard trolled you."

And it is true.

And that's all he did.

Yes, people died. But did you kill them? No.

L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige did.

If you do not look at the real good that was done you are denying part of the truth.

Is that bolded statement above right or wrong?

Should we only make the "mother fuckers" pay in the manner you see fit?

You don't make the mother fuckers pay by doing yourself in. That's what THEY were doing!

That's not what you were doing.

Scientology is a brutal joke on all of us, the problem is, its not very funny.

Yes, it was brutal, it was a fucking joke, and it isn't funny.

BUT THERE IS A LESSON IN THAT.

And if you do not get the lesson, you just die in a pile of shit, and are swept away by something YOU never did to yourself.

What were YOU doing to yourself with Scientology?

[olska]

After I left the cult and realized I had been duped and scammed, I was embarrassed. I was also ashamed. Ashamed I had wasted years of my life, tons of money and then there are the people I helped reg and recruit (read helped the cult victimize). For what? Bullshit. <snip>

Not the first, nor the most, nor surely the last -- as embarrassing episodes go, my past support of scientology is running behind

... the time I got drunk at a college concert and decided I should get up on the stage and sing with the band (a song I loved, but for which when it came down to it I knew neither the words nor the tune)

... the oh so serious "epic poem" I submitted to an English teacher who, though he tried, could not stop laughing when he critiqued it.

... and several escapades, adventures, and misjudgments, some of which affected others in ways I did not foresee and now regret, all of which are too private to detail here.

Oh well -- so much for dignity lost!

Thank you for starting this thread, and for your honesty -- I sincerely hope that sharing your experience and your feelings will bring you relief as it does so many of us.