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Thread: Axiom142's Video Thread.

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    Gold Meritorious Patron Axiom142's Avatar
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    Default Axiom142's Video Thread.

    This is the 'Conversation With a Scientologist' video that I filmed on the 22nd of Aug 2009. So not new I’m afraid, but I thought I’d put this here in the video section for posterity. Now hosted on Vimeo as YouTube removed the original versions.

    Here is an example of how a Scientology OTVIII behaves when faced with someone who dares to criticise his ‘church’.


    http://www.vimeo.com/6358888


    And, a short version, with the “Crazy, insane, nuts” bit:


    http://www.vimeo.com/6358552



    Axiom142
    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Siddhartha Gautama

    “He is tall, sort of dark, and sort of handsome. Well not ugly anyway.” - Terril Park on Axiom142

    Some of my videos: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...s-Video-Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom142 View Post
    This is the 'Conversation With a Scientologist' video that I filmed on the 22nd of Aug 2009. So not new I’m afraid, but I thought I’d put this here in the video section for posterity. Now hosted on Vimeo as YouTube removed the original versions.

    Here is an example of how a Scientology OTVIII behaves when faced with someone who dares to criticise his ‘church’.


    http://www.vimeo.com/6358888


    And, a short version, with the “Crazy, insane, nuts” bit:


    http://www.vimeo.com/6358552



    Axiom142
    One wonders, being the devils advocate, what you would say if a scientologist accosted you on the street, filming you and trying to invalidate your beliefs? Would you be calm, coherent and friendly?

    This was no conversation, that requires two people with some common ground to happen, its just two guys being right at each other.

    Are you surprised at his reaction?

    Or happy that you got video that makes him look silly?

    Ambush videos are always productive...

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    Genuine Meatball SchwimmelPuckel's Avatar
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    Devil's advocate? - Nah.. Party pooper..

    Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F#*¤CK is going on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    One wonders, being the devils advocate, what you would say if a scientologist accosted you on the street, filming you and trying to invalidate your beliefs? Would you be calm, coherent and friendly?

    This was no conversation, that requires two people with some common ground to happen, its just two guys being right at each other.

    Are you surprised at his reaction?

    Or happy that you got video that makes him look silly?

    Ambush videos are always productive...

    Was he being overly aggressive for you. Did you not notice the Scio was the one returning time after time. Axiom didn't even have to go anywhere. And he could barely get a word in edgewise... So who was the real aggressor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iknowtoomuch View Post
    Was he being overly aggressive for you. Did you not notice the Scio was the one returning time after time. Axiom didn't even have to go anywhere. And he could barely get a word in edgewise... So who was the real aggressor...
    Well it would be interesting to see the video before the part presented, to see what lead up to this scientologist who was confronted on the street on his way somewhere, and what ax said that provoked the "outburst".

    Or even videos of other times when there was no memorable reaction. Selective editing is also a useful tool.

    Like I said, ambush videos make great pieces of propaganda....but you have to wonder what the intent of ax was, confronting scientologists on the street with a video camera? A rational polite conversation about philosophies and experiences? Or bullbait.

    I dont particularly enjoy seeing scientologists hammering anchor points...theres better tech than that for dealing with antagonistic people.

    I think they are both silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    Well it would be interesting to see the video before the part presented, to see what lead up to this scientologist who was confronted on the street on his way somewhere, and what ax said that provoked the "outburst".

    Or even videos of other times when there was no memorable reaction. Selective editing is also a useful tool.

    Like I said, ambush videos make great pieces of propaganda....but you have to wonder what the intent of ax was, confronting scientologists on the street with a video camera? A rational polite conversation about philosophies and experiences? Or bullbait.

    I dont particularly enjoy seeing scientologists hammering anchor points...theres better tech than that for dealing with antagonistic people.

    I think they are both silly.
    Oh come on. George comes across as a bat-shit insane scientologist because that is what he is! Miscavageology creates raving fanatics like that.... That is what Scientology has become.....a holding facility for the mentally challenged.


    So tell me, why do you defend it as you do?

    Exactly what ARE you in agreement about with the Church of Scientology? (It isn't L. Ron Hubbard, as he is no longer SOURCE in the aforementioned organization...)
    "Deception is the ethics of war." - John Singleton Mosby

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    One wonders, being the devils advocate, what you would say if a scientologist accosted you on the street, filming you and trying to invalidate your beliefs? Would you be calm, coherent and friendly?
    Happened to me and willingly walked into that Lions den. One of the smartest things COS did was to get some OTs to interview anons at protests. Some of course were stupid, and one may be required to watch them multiple times in orgs.

    I am always calm and coherent, and usually friendly. Don't think they'll show me to the parishioners. But they may watch me here.

    http://video.google.co.uk/videosearc...en&emb=0&aq=f#

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    Gold Meritorious Patron Axiom142's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    One wonders, being the devils advocate, what you would say if a scientologist accosted you on the street, filming you and trying to invalidate your beliefs? Would you be calm, coherent and friendly?

    This was no conversation, that requires two people with some common ground to happen, its just two guys being right at each other.

    Are you surprised at his reaction?

    Or happy that you got video that makes him look silly?

    Ambush videos are always productive...
    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    Well it would be interesting to see the video before the part presented, to see what lead up to this scientologist who was confronted on the street on his way somewhere, and what ax said that provoked the "outburst".

    Or even videos of other times when there was no memorable reaction. Selective editing is also a useful tool.

    Like I said, ambush videos make great pieces of propaganda....but you have to wonder what the intent of ax was, confronting scientologists on the street with a video camera? A rational polite conversation about philosophies and experiences? Or bullbait.

    I dont particularly enjoy seeing scientologists hammering anchor points...theres better tech than that for dealing with antagonistic people.

    I think they are both silly.

    Thank you Alex for taking the time to comment on my thread.

    I don’t really want to get into a big debate about this as the situation has already been discussed at length and I expect most people are sick of hearing of it (I’m sure Alanzo is anyway ).

    But, I will answer your questions.

    If a Scientologist accosted me in the street and invalidated my beliefs, I like to think that I would politely disagree with them and put forward my argument in a logical and coherent manner. I hope that I wouldn’t resort to personal insults or try to cave them in mentally.

    I tried to have a two-way conversation with him, but it was clear that he didn’t want to grant me any beingness (to use the Scn lingo) and just tried to attack me verbally.

    Was I surprised at his reaction? No, not entirely, but it was the ferocity and intensity that I wasn’t prepared for. I was very disappointed that we could not just discuss things rationally.

    I am not particularly happy that I made him look bad. I believe George to be a decent man, but he said some very nasty things. This isn’t about making him look bad, it is about showing people what Scientology does to people and their sanity.

    You point about ‘ambushing’ is valid and one that I did consider. I agree that it is sometimes too easy to catch someone off guard or put them under pressure and then film the results and present them out of context in order to make them look bad. I don’t believe that I did this. The video is a fair reflection of what happened. I didn’t even film the worst part!

    As I have said before, I never set out to make a video and post it on YouTube. I started filming because I wanted to talk to a Scientology Sea Org member and wanted to keep a record in case things turned nasty. If he hadn’t been so nasty and irrational, I would never have posted this on YouTube in the first place. But, when I reviewed what was said, I decided that the whole world should have the opportunity to see how Scientology makes people behave. I mean, what sort of person says “When you die, you will die alone and in pain and in the dark. And I’m glad”?

    What happened before the video was taken is this:

    1. I spotted a CoS minibus and 3 SO members on the street next to the Sainsbury’s supermarket.
    2. Seeing them cross the street and two of them stand outside the door of a house as if trying to visit a public Scientologist, I sensed a photo opportunity and photographed them.
    3. I walked away, down the street, and said ‘Hello’ to George as I passed him.
    4. George followed me and took my photograph.
    5. I saw this and walked back towards George to ask him about this and he walked away from me. I pulled out my camera and prepared to start filming.
    7. As I approached, I asked him if he could confront me. He turned back towards me and said that he could and called me a squirrel.
    8. I asked him if he knew that David Miscavige had been beating his staff and had spent over £40,000 on a hi-fi for his personal use at St Hill and if he knew that Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder had left the CoS and were speaking out about the abuses there.
    9. His response is shown in the video.

    Whether or not you believe me, is up to you Alex, but that is what happened.
    I don’t have any other videos of conversations with Scientologists, because I have never set out to make one before, despite having numerous opportunities to do so.

    Did I set out to bullbait? No, I just wanted to make him aware of what was happening in his ‘church’ and ask him how he felt about that.

    Oh, and as for me being silly, I’d have to hold my hand up to that one. I am well known for it .

    I hope I have answered your questions.

    Axiom142
    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Siddhartha Gautama

    “He is tall, sort of dark, and sort of handsome. Well not ugly anyway.” - Terril Park on Axiom142

    Some of my videos: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...s-Video-Thread

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    IMO AX, you did your best to grant beoingness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    IMO AX, you did your best to grant beoingness.
    That's when you bounce back from adversity.

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