Quantum Mark VII

[AnonShaw]

To be honest I don't care about the details and this whole thread is tl;dr but srsly gaise:

[Mark A. Baker]

Ted,

You trying to tempt me into being flashy, since I'm a gold-bug making money on it at the moment, into showing off with it on my cans?

By all means, keep your shirt on!


Mark A. Baker

[Dulloldfart]

To be honest I don't care about the details and this whole thread is tl;dr but srsly gaise:

If I read a bunch of stuff a person has written over an extended period of time, I usually feel I've got a fairly good idea of his grasp on reality. Or lack of it.

Looking at what has been said on this site about the e-meter, it would seem to me that on the one side there are several people who generally discuss things reasonably, who say the meter is useful in auditing and why. And on the other side there are people who mostly rant and make snap judgments concerning things they are not well-informed about, who say it's a bunch of crap.

If I personally knew nothing about the meter and had to pick a side, try and guess which I would choose.

Paul

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

oops

[Dulloldfart]

Trade in the slide rule for a calculator

6" x 3 " = 6 x 2.54 x 3 x 2.54 = 116 sq cm per can
(factor of 2.8 error)

Sorry, I was basing the calculation on cylindrical cans. I didn't realize you wanted to use rectangular ones.

Paul

[AnonShaw]

If I read a bunch of stuff a person has written over an extended period of time, I usually feel I've got a fairly good idea of his grasp on reality. Or lack of it.

Looking at what has been said on this site about the e-meter, it would seem to me that on the one side there are several people who generally discuss things reasonably, who say the meter is useful in auditing and why. And on the other side there are people who mostly rant and make snap judgments concerning things they are not well-informed about, who say it's a bunch of crap.

If I personally knew nothing about the meter and had to pick a side, try and guess which I would choose.

Paul

Well, at least I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject.

Considering the e-meter was used in various self help scams by it's original creator Volney Mathison (yes hubbard also stole that) I don't see why it would require further investigation before I would come to the conclusions that it's quackery.

I'm sure some of you like to think that years of SCIENTOLOGY training made you some kind of expert, but it didn't in the real world there is no scientology diploma.

Here are the things that make me come to these conclusions:

Although Hubbard's name is on the patent application, the E-meter was actually invented by a chiropractor named Volney Mathison, and was originally called the Mathison Model B Electropsychometer.

Mathison also marketed a cheaper Mathison Quiz Meter and a manuscript on "Electropsychometry" by L. Ron Hubbard and himself.

Mathison's Electropsychometer

was promoted as an aid to psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, which is anathema to Scientologists!

The ``metabolism test'' done at the start of each session has nothing to do with metabolism.

The US Food & Drug Administration raided Scientology on January 4, 1963 and seized hundreds of E-meters as illegal medical devices. The incident is described in Jon Atack's book, A Piece of Blue Sky, and in this essay by Stephen Barrett, M.D. Since that time, meters have been required to carry a disclaimer stating that they are purely a religious artifact. This appellate court decision describes the trial and the various witnesses who appeared.

From the "idols with feet of clay" department: even L. Ron Hubbard had "discreditable reads" (indications of serious aberration or criminality) on the E-Meter. This really ticked him off!

Source: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/


These and many more lead me to the conclusion that it's really not worth looking more into.

Quackery is usually pretty easy to spot, it bases a complex logic on a wrong basis. To throw critics of it in endless technical arguments about something that is really not worth such effort to understand at first.

[AnonOrange]

Both AnonShaw and the rest of you are doing it wrong.

USE YOUR BRAINS instead.

You are all using the "argument from authority".

AnonShaw:
"So and so said the e-meter was crap, so I don't have to think and understand anything. The E-Meter is crap."

The rest of you:
"Hubbard was a genius" The E-Meter works.

It's real simple folks. When the contact to the cans is improved, the meter's effects go away. The needle moves because of the poor contact variations.

Use your own head, and you'll be an expert like me.

[AnonShaw]

Both AnonShaw and the rest of you are doing it wrong.

USE YOUR BRAINS instead.

You are all using the "argument from authority".

AnonShaw:
"So and so said the e-meter was crap, so I don't have to think and understand anything. The E-Meter is crap."

The rest of you:
"Hubbard was a genius" The E-Meter works.

It's real simple folks. When the contact to the cans is improved, the meter's effects go away. The needle moves because of the poor contact variations.

Use your own head, and you'll be an expert like me.

No U

[Researchfag]

Both AnonShaw and the rest of you are doing it wrong.

USE YOUR BRAINS instead.

You are all using the "argument from authority".

AnonShaw:
"So and so said the e-meter was crap, so I don't have to think and understand anything. The E-Meter is crap."

The rest of you:
"Hubbard was a genius" The E-Meter works.

It's real simple folks. When the contact to the cans is improved, the meter's effects go away. The needle moves because of the poor contact variations.

Use your own head, and you'll be an expert like me.

In spite of what the zoners here might say, yes the e-meter is 1/3rd of a modern lie detector and it can function as a rudimentary lie detector.

Lie detectors were in use before Hubbard stole Mathison's emeter (who stole it from Jung). The principle of electrical skin resistance is the same in an e-meter as it is in a lie detector. It has nothing to do with a thetan or Hubbard being a scientific genius. It shows that he saw someone else's work and used it in his own cult.

Yes, one of the variables is how well your skin is in contact with the cans, and twitchy fingers do change the needle "reads" rendering the device as hardly an accurate, scientific one.

But yes it also does measure electric skin resistance, which is a reflection of your mood. And that's all an evil cult needs to influence you. You don't know what the meter is reading when you're being asked questions about your personal life; all you are told as a cult member is that it sees all and it knows all, so any attempt to hide your emotions adjusts your mood and it just makes the needle move more.

Hubbard's only genius was that he was a con artist who stole someone else's work, which was based on an actual phenomenon that has been known for over 100 years, which you are denying even exists.

Unlike you, AnonOrange, I'm actually trying to demonstrate how the e-meter is a piece of shit from a scientific point of view, not using townhall debate tactics of shouting like a fucking lunatic and thinking I'm correct because I *feel* as though I'm correct. That is a cult goon tactic.

Frankly, you're closer in mindset to a Scientologist than anyone else here: a rambling incoherent mentally-ill failure who has wasted all his life chasing a dream that will never arrive.

[AnonOrange]

Unlike you, AnonOrange, I'm actually trying to demonstrate how the e-meter is a piece of shit from a scientific point of view, not using townhall debate tactics of shouting like a fucking lunatic and thinking I'm correct because I *feel* as though I'm correct. That is a cult goon tactic.

Frankly, you're closer in mindset to a Scientologist than anyone else here: a rambling incoherent mentally-ill failure who has wasted all his life chasing a dream that will never arrive.

Thank you, you're helping my thread view count!

When discussing the E-Meter, you will find that I'm calm, reserved and don't insult anyone.

I just want you to see how important that underwater test was.

BTW, Mr. Researcher can YOU explain why the GSR effects go away underwater. Zinj, our resident expert has had some difficulties with that one.