Quantum Mark VII

[Mark A. Baker]

In spite of what the zoners here might say, yes the e-meter is 1/3rd of a modern lie detector and it can function as a rudimentary lie detector.

The only "zoner" objection to this statement is based on the words "lie detector". Such things don't exist. Devices commonly referred to as "lie detectors" do not actually detect lies. The term is a popular misnomer for what are essentially complex biofeedback indicators which can measure subtle indicators of stress.

The emeter is, as you indicate, simply a rudimentary stress detector. As a mechanism it is sufficient to its purposed use in auditing. Calling it a "lie detector" is both misleading and inaccurate. Doing so deliberately when their actual nature is understood could readily be deemed fraudulent.


Mark A. Baker

[ULRC/S]

AO,
Please explain to me, an electronics design engineer who trained in the CoS on emeter repair, and subsequently has designed, built and sold emeters, how a fully painted/laquered RedBull Cans can have any electrical connection to a pair of hands holding them in a conventional emeter manner?

Regards, Allen

[Veda]

IMO, e-meters can be used as stress/and stress-release detectors, and - to a limited extent - be useful, for those so inclined, in counseling.

But there is just so much that can be done with an e-meter. The idea that "TA motion" inevitably equates to "charge off case" and "case gain" - in a lasting sense - is a simplistic notion and, over the years, has been, IMO, discredited.

Those sweepingly denouncing e-meters as quackery make fully describing the (positive and negative) uses of e-meters more difficult.
The meter has some limited positive uses, yet also can be used misleadingly and manipulatively, and - when used as a thought-policing device - coercively.

So the battle rages. One the one side are the "Scientology Tech people," who dearly love their meters, and - despite denials to outsiders - do regard them, essentially, as truth detectors. On the other side are the "it's all quackery" folks.

I'm in neither camp.

[alex]

In spite of what the zoners here might say, yes the e-meter is 1/3rd of a modern lie detector and it can function as a rudimentary lie detector.

Lie detectors were in use before Hubbard stole Mathison's emeter (who stole it from Jung). The principle of electrical skin resistance is the same in an e-meter as it is in a lie detector. It has nothing to do with a thetan or Hubbard being a scientific genius. It shows that he saw someone else's work and used it in his own cult.

Yes, one of the variables is how well your skin is in contact with the cans, and twitchy fingers do change the needle "reads" rendering the device as hardly an accurate, scientific one.

But yes it also does measure electric skin resistance, which is a reflection of your mood. And that's all an evil cult needs to influence you. You don't know what the meter is reading when you're being asked questions about your personal life; all you are told as a cult member is that it sees all and it knows all, so any attempt to hide your emotions adjusts your mood and it just makes the needle move more.

Hubbard's only genius was that he was a con artist who stole someone else's work, which was based on an actual phenomenon that has been known for over 100 years, which you are denying even exists.

Unlike you, AnonOrange, I'm actually trying to demonstrate how the e-meter is a piece of shit from a scientific point of view, not using townhall debate tactics of shouting like a fucking lunatic and thinking I'm correct because I *feel* as though I'm correct. That is a cult goon tactic.

Frankly, you're closer in mindset to a Scientologist than anyone else here: a rambling incoherent mentally-ill failure who has wasted all his life chasing a dream that will never arrive.

"You don't know what the meter is reading when you're being asked questions about your personal life; all you are told as a cult member is that it sees all and it knows all, so any attempt to hide your emotions adjusts your mood and it just makes the needle move more."

This is not really the way it is. First off, why try and hide your emotions when you are PAYING good money for counselling?

And I wonder where you get the idea that people are told the emeter sees and knows all?

It is a simple device that reacts to what you are thinking in a way that can be interpreted by a highly trained practitioner. It is the auditor that is the intelligence in the equation, the emeter a simple dumb tool.

And making the "needle move more" is the whole point! ( in a round a bout way, as the needle moving is a sign of address of things that trouble you )

Knowing what the meter is reading would be a hinderance as your attention would be on that rather than the thoughts you are there to explore.

[AnonOrange]

AO,
Please explain to me, an electronics design engineer who trained in the CoS on emeter repair, and subsequently has designed, built and sold emeters, how a fully painted/laquered RedBull Cans can have any electrical connection to a pair of hands holding them in a conventional emeter manner?

Regards, Allen

Try it, it works. The lacquer probably has small scratches and the bottom and top rims are pure, exposed aluminum.

That's really not the issue here. The real issue is: Why did you spend so many years "trained in the CoS on emeter repair, and subsequently has designed, built and sold emeters", not figuring out that the needle moves because of the poor contact quality rather than BODY THEATANS !

[MrNobody]

Try it, it works. The lacquer probably has small scratches and the bottom and top rims are pure, exposed aluminum.

That's really not the issue here. The real issue is: Why did you spend so many years "trained in the CoS on emeter repair, and subsequently has designed, built and sold emeters", not figuring out that the needle moves because of the poor contact quality rather than BODY THEATANS !

Scratched lacquer, (partially) conductive lacquer, both possible explanations, both based on coincidence and speculation at best. I'll add a third one to the speculations: The cans behave sorta like an antenna. How's that for speculation? Well, it would need a Faraday cage to exclude that, but we are speculating anyway, aren't we? I mean we've never really entered the scientific field as of yet anyway.

I still haven't seen a list of all variables involved, and there are just too many possible explanations (=speculations).

Do we have an exact definition of what the e-meter does read? Do we have an exact definition of what it is promised to read? Do we have any fact that we could base some science on?

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I suggest
AO you yourself said that the "GSR" effects are diminished by 95% and what is the other 5%

So to you and Paul...

I would suggest that the putting the cans in the water, and not even touching them does two things atleast. It reduces the resistance of the skin to can contact..and replaces the junction with a can to water.... then water to larger skin surface.(the whole skin of the whole hand which is in the water)
and essentially keeps that new Junction or connector if you will as an essentially constant resistance.
Because this can to water to skin part of the circuit has been now been made constant. We can now look at the other factors in the formula V= I * R.

So with a constant voltage, and a new lowered but constant resistance the current must be higher.
Agreed??

Now, let's assume for atleast one Hypothesis, that thoughts could be changes in multiple cells let's even say Nerves and synapses, and perhaps the brain could be included. Then if the TA which Paul had at (corrected due to knob by one whole number 1.5showing but actually 2.5) which would show a half way between 5000 ohms and 12,000 ohms. Let me guess at approx 7000 ohms for Pauls body. What "resistance/impedance" change would the body have to undergo to show a only 5% of the original fluctuation based on the new amout of current? Would the sensitivity adjusted further say up to 32 bring back the "original size" of the needle read on the dial? I think it would.

If it doesn't then I think my hypothesis of the "body as a resistor/impeder" is wrong. If it does...then what is actually causing the variance in the body?

Wish I had a meter and other equipment here to test this out myself.

I am guessing that the body actually functions similarily to the old Radio tuners that were essentially variable plate (capacitors?) and that both respond to magnetic wave (flux)

What say you?

snip....
can YOU explain why the GSR effects go away ? snip..

[Researchfag]

BTW, Mr. Researcher can YOU explain why the GSR effects go away underwater. Zinj, our resident expert has had some difficulties with that one.

The GSR effect goes away under water because it is under water. Water is touching the cans. Water conducts electricity better than human skin. The e-meter is measuring the GSR of the water, which is none.

Do you need me to explain what electricity is, or how skin is different than water? Your questioning seems to demonstrate that you don't understand such basic concepts.

[Researchfag]

Here AO, this site has pretty colours:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_hum...ct_electricity

[MrNobody]

Here AO, this site has pretty colours:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_hum...ct_electricity

Honestly: this site needs a lot of work, because right now it is just wrong. Voltage is not a danger, Amperage is. I've survived 20-50 KV shocks more than once with out any complications, as would anybody else. People with heart problems might be an exception, though.

If the electrical shock is strong enough, it will stop your heart and kill you..

That's true, but the "strength" is measured in Amperes, not in Volts.