Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: The Australian: Political pursuit of religion

  1. #1
    Gold Meritorious Patron sallydannce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,508

    Default The Australian: Political pursuit of religion

    PEOPLE, and churches, are free to believe what they like, but not to do as they like.

    Xenophon is calling for a parliamentary inquiry into the Scientologists and their tax-exempt status.

    He told the Senate: "I also believe the activities of this organisation should be scrutinised by parliament because Australian taxpayers are, in effect, supporting Scientology through its tax-exempt status. I say to all Australians: as you fill in your tax return next July or August, ask yourself how you feel knowing that you are paying tax and yet this criminal organisation is not.

    "Do you want Australian tax exemptions to be supporting an organisation that coerces its followers into having abortions? Do you want to be supporting an organisation that defrauds, that blackmails, that falsely imprisons? Because, on the balance of evidence provided by victims of Scientology, you probably are."

    The next day Kevin Rudd intervened, saying: "These are grave allegations he is making. Many people in Australia have real concerns about Scientology. I share some of those concerns.

    "But let us proceed carefully and look carefully at the material he has provided before we make a decision on further parliamentary action."

    The Prime Minister's intervention raised my eyebrows. So I revisited the 1983 judgment of the High Court in Church of the New Faith v Commissioner of Payroll Tax (Victoria).

    The question as to whether Scientology is a religion was settled in the 1983 case. Scientology is a religion and its practice is protected under section 116 of the Constitution. The Church of Scientology is entitled to the same tax exemptions enjoyed by all religions, not the least Rudd's Anglicans and my Lutherans.

    There is nothing the government or the parliament can do to withdraw the Church of Scientology's status as a religion. Under our constitutional structure, it is the High Court that has the function of ruling whether Scientology is a religion and this it has done.

    In their joint judgment, former chief justices Anthony Mason and Gerard Brennan made clear the inappropriateness of political leaders interfering with religious freedom: "Under our law, the state has no prophetic role in relation to religious belief; the state can neither declare supernatural truth nor determine the paths through which the human mind must search in a quest for supernatural truth."

    As to whether the teachings of Lafayette Ronald Hubbard make for a compelling religion or not, justices Mason and Brennan were clearly not credulous while maintaining a scrupulous objectivity, when they explained: "Yet charlatanism is a necessary price of religious freedom, and if a self-proclaimed teacher persuades others to believe in a religion which he propounds, lack of sincerity or integrity on his part is not incompatible with the religious character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers."

    If the allegations made by those who have petitioned Xenophon have substance, then we have a full array of authorities that are charged with responsibilities in relation to offences under the criminal law, of corporate misconduct and other potential breaches of laws and regulations. Of course the appropriate body to deal with the allegations publicised by Xenophon is the police. If the Church of Scientology or its members have engaged in criminal conduct, then these should be pursued under the criminal laws of our country.

    Whether or not it is appropriate for individual politicians to use the privileges of parliament to publicise allegations of this sort is debatable.

    What I do not think is debatable is whether politicians should be able to harness the committees of parliament to pursue a religion in the way proposed by Xenophon. This would amount to persecution and an illiberal denial of religious freedom.

    Whatever motivations Rudd may have to ally himself with Xenophon on this issue, he should give no succour to the proposal for a parliamentary inquiry.

    The only solution to the senator's concerns about taxation treatment is for the High Court decision to be revisited, for the Constitution to be amended to enable discriminatory treatment of religions, or for taxation exemptions to be withdrawn from religious organisations. If tax and any other exemptions are to be withdrawn from the Church of Scientology, then the same will need to be done to all the other religions that enjoy these amenities.

    Xenophon closed his speech to the Senate saying, "In the past, Scientology has claimed that those who question their organisation are attacking the group's religious freedom. It is twisted logic, to say the least.

    "Religious freedom did not mean the Catholic or Anglican churches were not held accountable for crimes and abuses committed by their priests, nuns and officials, albeit belatedly. Ultimately, this is not about religious freedom. In Australia there are no limits on what you can believe. But there are limits on how you can behave. It is called the law, and no one is above it."

    The good senator should pause and reflect on his closing statement: our elected representatives are not above the law and they have no right to use parliament to pursue religious organisations contrary to section 116 of the Australian Constitution.

    Noel Pearson is director of the Cape York Institute for Policy and Leadership.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225800617136

  2. #2
    Silver Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beside the seaside, beside the sea.
    Posts
    1,517
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default

    As to whether the teachings of Lafayette Ronald Hubbard make for a compelling religion or not, justices Mason and Brennan were clearly not credulous while maintaining a scrupulous objectivity, when they explained: "Yet charlatanism is a necessary price of religious freedom, and if a self-proclaimed teacher persuades others to believe in a religion which he propounds, lack of sincerity or integrity on his part is not incompatible with the religious character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers."


    The problem I have with this argument is that IMO there is NOTHING remotely resembling a religion about the 'character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers'.

    I also wonder how other countries who presumably also have constitutions that protect religious freedom have refused to recognize scientology as a religion.

    That said, I would hope that legal prosecution and conviction for the crimes of scientology that have been highlighted in Australia would be sufficient to bring the organization to its knees and possibly/probably wipe it out.

    Thank you for bringing this kind of thinking to our attention Sallydannce.

  3. #3
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    North-East England
    Posts
    18,761
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    That is a very interesting article. If withdrawing the CofS's tax-free status means declaring it not a religion, and only the High Court has the power to do so, then this call for a Parliamentary Inquiry is off the rails.

    Whether or not one thinks Scn *should* be a religion — a complex question here — is beside the point entirely.

    And if CofS staff have committed crimes, the police should deal with them.

    Paul
    3 new Alan C. Walter eBooks now available for free download from PaulsRabbit at http://paulsrabbit.com, in both PDF format and Kindle (MOBI) format. Each has a clickable Table of Contents, and is searchable. (1) The ESMB Posts: 1241 posts from 420 threads, 775 pages. (2) ACW Lightlink Archives: All 130 articles, 400 pages. (3) Kn Dictionary, 121 pages. Also see PaulsRabbit Ebooks thread.

  4. #4
    Silver Meritorious Patron Cherished's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    That is a very interesting article. If withdrawing the CofS's tax-free status means declaring it not a religion, and only the High Court has the power to do so, then this call for a Parliamentary Inquiry is off the rails.

    Whether or not one thinks Scn *should* be a religion — a complex question here — is beside the point entirely.

    And if CofS staff have committed crimes, the police should deal with them.

    Paul
    Noel Pearson is wrong about several things in this article.

    A far better analysis of the law can be obtained from Malcolm Knox: http://www.smh.com.au/national/strug...1120-iqu8.html

    Another brilliant analysis of the politics is here: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1120-iqsn.html

  5. #5
    Crusader Carmel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somersby, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    6,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherished View Post
    Noel Pearson is wrong about several things in this article.

    A far better analysis of the law can be obtained from Malcolm Knox: http://www.smh.com.au/national/strug...1120-iqu8.html

    Another brilliant analysis of the politics is here: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1120-iqsn.html
    Great articles, Cherished...thanks for posting.

    A police investigation and a Senate Inquiry would go hand in hand.

    They have different functions/purposes, and work within different perameters.

    There is a lot to be discovered here. Some of it needs to go to the police, and it is. Some of it would/could only be addressed and dealt with by Parliament, and having a Senate Inquiry means that it would be.

    While I believe that a police investigation is already underway, a Senate Inquiry will get more out on the table, and open the door to changes in laws to prevent abuses which the likes of the CofS has been getting away with, given the laws as they are today.
    "Man gets tired, spirit don't. Man surrenders, spirit won't. Man crawls, spirit flies. Spirit lives when man dies.
    -Man seems, spirit is. Man dreams, the spirit lives. Man is tethered, spirit free. What spirit is man can be.............What spirit is, the man, can, be"
    - The Waterboys "Spirit" lyrics

  6. #6
    Silver Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beside the seaside, beside the sea.
    Posts
    1,517
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default

    Whether or not one thinks Scn *should* be a religion — a complex question here — is beside the point entirely.
    Sure DOF, it matters not what I or 'one' thinks about this, (or what the scientology organization thinks about it for that matter). But surely it does matter whether the Sci is recognized as a religion by the Senate, the Parliament, and the laws that government devises and enacts regarding who or what qualifies as a religion for tax-exempt status.

  7. #7
    Gold Meritorious Patron Lohan2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia.
    Posts
    2,880

    Question Section 116

    116. The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

    Hmmmm, So far Xenophon has called for an inquiry because of fraud, misconduct, (medical) malpractice, human right violations.....

    Where is the reference to: {limiting} free exercise of religious beliefs ??
    Recital of Blessing on auspicious Occasions


  8. #8
    Gold Meritorious Patron sallydannce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherished View Post
    Noel Pearson is wrong about several things in this article.

    A far better analysis of the law can be obtained from Malcolm Knox: http://www.smh.com.au/national/strug...1120-iqu8.html

    Another brilliant analysis of the politics is here: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1120-iqsn.html
    Thanks for these Cherished.

    I'm going to have a close read.

  9. #9
    Gold Meritorious Patron sallydannce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,508

    Default

    The allegations made here this week echo others around the world. This does not make them true, but it suggests they warrant fair and transparent investigation affording procedural fairness both to the church, which has a right to rebut the claims, and to the complainants.
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1120-iqsn.html

    These claims of the abuses within scientology have been around for a long time.

    Organised scientology has, up until now, been able to silence the critics using various tactics.

    The time has come for fair and transparent investigation! Using procedural fairness and nothing but the truth all the way!

    Bring it on!

  10. #10
    Silver Meritorious Sponsor
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohan2008 View Post
    Where is the reference to: {limiting} free exercise of religious beliefs ??
    The exercise of Scientology is mandated by the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. All of the doctrines. All of them.

    And, those mandates and instructions are inherently a mandate and manual of criminal behavior.

    The *practice* of Scientology as defined by Ron is itself criminal.

    Zinj

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. LRH political advices to Kenya
    By MostlyLurker in forum L Ron Hubbard
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 28th June 2009, 09:29 PM
  2. what political leanings does scientology have?
    By lisinipril in forum General discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 23rd May 2009, 05:32 PM
  3. Healing the Planet -- A Political Approach
    By Lynn Fountain Campbell in forum Miscellaneous videos
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 1st September 2008, 02:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •