The 1st Red Flag

[Cinnamon_Girl]

I dont know this guy personally but why post his pic on the board with a put down comment? are you referring to him as a "thing" because you dont think he is handsome? or has he done something to you gloria?

My guess is that he's possibly a Scientologist who claims to be "OT", when we all now know that there is no such thing!

[Hoodwinked]

In 1989 I had a roommate who was OT VIII. She was extremely hostile and angry. She was FSM'ing for Flag and she was constantly calling Flag and screaming at terminals regarding her FSM commissions. She also frequently accused others of ripping off her FSM commissions. One day she accused me of doing something that I had not done and proceeded to unleash on me. She looked at me with such hatred and her anger was so overpowering and venemous that I cried for an hour afterwards.

Prior to that I had believed that OT's didn't need to use force to accomplish what they want to do. Where is anger on the tone scale? Around 1.0?

[thetanic]

In 1989 I had a roommate who was OT VIII. She was extremely hostile and angry. She was FSM'ing for Flag and she was constantly calling Flag and screaming at terminals regarding her FSM commissions. She also frequently accused others of ripping off her FSM commissions.

Wow.

On the other hand, I completely believe the bit about being ripped off over FSM commissions -- it happened all the time.

[Spirited]

My guess is that he's possibly a Scientologist who claims to be "OT", when we all now know that there is no such thing!

yeah i got that part of it, but to stick a particular persons face on a board and call them a "thing" would warrant a better reason than that. plenty have done the OT levels on this board and arent "things". know what i mean?
I'm sure gloria will let us know what that was all about.

[Gadfly]

In 1989 I had a roommate who was OT VIII. She was extremely hostile and angry. She was FSM'ing for Flag and she was constantly calling Flag and screaming at terminals regarding her FSM commissions. She also frequently accused others of ripping off her FSM commissions. One day she accused me of doing something that I had not done and proceeded to unleash on me. She looked at me with such hatred and her anger was so overpowering and venemous that I cried for an hour afterwards.

Prior to that I had believed that OT's didn't need to use force to accomplish what they want to do. Where is anger on the tone scale? Around 1.0?

Yes, I had seen similar behavior by Flag FSMs.

Anger is 2.0. Still, VERY LOW on a chart that doe up to 40!!!!

I had noticed a few "OTs" who DID have an uncanny ability to "impinge" on others, but I suspect that these people had that "ability" all along (as a personality trait), and they never seemed to have had a problem with really "invading people's spaces" and ramming viewpoints down their throats.

Of course, various LRH policies teach them and drill them to do exactly THAT!

LRH, from tape, "Second Lecture on Clearing Methodology":

"You know, you walk up to a person very casually and you say, 'Well, you look like you're not having too good a time. You look like you're in a little bit of trouble.' And the individual will say, 'Yes I am', and you say, 'How about some auditing? Why here's my card. Now come over.' And he says, 'What's that?'. 'Well I'll tell you when you get there. Here's my card. Now, you be there at 8 pm this evening, OK.' And, 'What - what are you a practictioner of some sort? Or are you a doctor or something of that sort?' 'Yeah, that's right.' And he'll say, 'Gee, you know, what do you know. I didn't know it was that obvious.' You'd be surprized how many people turn up, if they are 8Ced."

"Now. All the social machinery people have actually breaks down before direct intention. But the thing that causes difficulty in this line-up, the thing that causes difficulty in moving people along the line of methodology has a great deal to do with the invasion of privacy. I won't call it privacy cause that dignifies it. You have to be willing to invade privacy, very definitely. Well, when you realize that the highest point of aberration on the third dynamic was the first time you decided not to invade somebody's privacy, and that nearly everything you've suffered from since was a determination not to invade somebody's privacy, you will see at once, where this connects on 8Cing somebody into a service zone".

"If you have a hard time invading people's privacy, you'll have a hard time 8Cing them into a chair, in a HAS co-audit unit, first PE, and so forth. Because you think they have rights. NO. They don't have any rights. What do you mean? What do they have? What has rights? That machinery? Those dramatizations? Those computing circuits? Do you mean those things have got rights? Hah! Pish pash."

"The next thing you know, why we'll have laws out, saying they have a perfect right to kill everybody. Hey, rights. Where's this thing called rights begin and end. Well, it began when you first decided that somebody was entitled to privacy. Another thetan. And there he was over there and you said, he is entitled to the privacy of his own thoughts."

"So I would thoroughly recommend anybody having to do with the PE Foundation, HAS co-audit line up to have a clean conscience and to be cured of guilt."

The above LRH reference was in EVERY Flag reg's Hat Pack, and obviously had been referred to many FSMs. They are trained to view you as a bundle of dramatizing circuits, and to PUSH PUSH PUSH relentlessly, while having no back-off on doing so by getting into your face with your personal stuff.

Just another policy reference showing what makes the mind of a well-indoctrinated Church member tick.

[I told you I was trouble]

Nah ... 1.5

Anger is 1.5

Lol

[Ted]

Yes, I had seen similar behavior by Flag FSMs.

Anger is 2.0. Still, VERY LOW on a chart that doe up to 40!!!!

I had noticed a few "OTs" who DID have an uncanny ability to "impinge" on others, but I suspect that these people had that "ability" all along (as a personality trait), and they never seemed to have had a problem with really "invading people's spaces" and ramming viewpoints down their throats.

Of course, various LRH policies teach them and drill them to do exactly THAT!

LRH, from tape, "Second Lecture on Clearing Methodology":

"You know, you walk up to a person very casually and you say, 'Well, you look like you're not having too good a time. You look like you're in a little bit of trouble.' And the individual will say, 'Yes I am', and you say, 'How about some auditing? Why here's my card. Now come over.' And he says, 'What's that?'. 'Well I'll tell you when you get there. Here's my card. Now, you be there at 8 pm this evening, OK.' And, 'What - what are you a practictioner of some sort? Or are you a doctor or something of that sort?' 'Yeah, that's right.' And he'll say, 'Gee, you know, what do you know. I didn't know it was that obvious.' You'd be surprized how many people turn up, if they are 8Ced."

"Now. All the social machinery people have actually breaks down before direct intention. But the thing that causes difficulty in this line-up, the thing that causes difficulty in moving people along the line of methodology has a great deal to do with the invasion of privacy. I won't call it privacy cause that dignifies it. You have to be willing to invade privacy, very definitely. Well, when you realize that the highest point of aberration on the third dynamic was the first time you decided not to invade somebody's privacy, and that nearly everything you've suffered from since was a determination not to invade somebody's privacy, you will see at once, where this connects on 8Cing somebody into a service zone".

"If you have a hard time invading people's privacy, you'll have a hard time 8Cing them into a chair, in a HAS co-audit unit, first PE, and so forth. Because you think they have rights. NO. They don't have any rights. What do you mean? What do they have? What has rights? That machinery? Those dramatizations? Those computing circuits? Do you mean those things have got rights? Hah! Pish pash."

"The next thing you know, why we'll have laws out, saying they have a perfect right to kill everybody. Hey, rights. Where's this thing called rights begin and end. Well, it began when you first decided that somebody was entitled to privacy. Another thetan. And there he was over there and you said, he is entitled to the privacy of his own thoughts."

"So I would thoroughly recommend anybody having to do with the PE Foundation, HAS co-audit line up to have a clean conscience and to be cured of guilt."

The above LRH reference was in EVERY Flag reg's Hat Pack, and obviously had been referred to many FSMs. They are trained to view you as a bundle of dramatizing circuits, and to PUSH PUSH PUSH relentlessly, while having no back-off on doing so by getting into your face with your personal stuff.

Just another policy reference showing what makes the mind of a well-indoctrinated Church member tick.

Games condition = have for self, can't have for others. In this instance, privacy.

Invasion of privacy was one of LRH's games conditions.

[GreyWolf]

yeah i got that part of it, but to stick a particular persons face on a board and call them a "thing" would warrant a better reason than that. plenty have done the OT levels on this board and arent "things". know what i mean?
I'm sure gloria will let us know what that was all about.

Watch some of the vidios this guy is in and you will see.

[AngeloV]

As a public on course, I had a 'wrong' cognition. The really threw me because I felt invalidated by the course supervisor.
But the big flags came about when I arrived at flag:

1. An OT VII putting a nail through his hand while we were building a stage.
2. The dirty kitchens. The look of exhaustion on the faces of the cooks.
3. The nurseries - you can find the details in 'my story'. That was the last 'red flag'.

[Gadfly]

Nah ... 1.5

Anger is 1.5

Lol

Oooppppps. You are right! What is 2.0? I am just not up on the Tone Scale these days.