Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 60

Thread: The 1st Red Flag

  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    Oooppppps. You are right! What is 2.0? I am just not up on the Tone Scale these days.
    Antagonism?





    The birds they sang, at the break of day
    Start again, I seemed to hear them say
    Do not dwell on what has passed away
    or what is yet to be ...

    Leonard Cohen.




  2. #32
    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    On a small mountain surrounded by many acres of forest.
    Posts
    8,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by I told you I was trouble View Post
    Antagonism?

    Yep, I think so. A "mellowed anger".
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

  3. #33
    Patron Meritorious
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    567

    Default

    My first red flag was seeing all the tired faces. These poor folk scurried around at top speed, drank Diet Coke like it was going out of style, and still seemed to be one step away from falling asleep.

    I recall querying about it later to my Scn friend. Their pat OT answer was that they do soooo much work clearing the planet....

    -PWC

  4. #34
    Patron with Honors Spirited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyWolf View Post
    Watch some of the vidios this guy is in and you will see.
    links?

  5. #35
    Silver Meritorious Patron Human Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,077

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoodwinked View Post
    Where is anger on the tone scale? Around 1.0?
    Now that we're out, we can look at the theory of the Tone Scale and see that actually there is no better or worse emotion - there is an apporpriate emotion, depending on our entire history, the situation in front of us, the goal we have in mind, the realtionship with the object of possible anger etc.... there is our actual and natural emotion (OMG! Natural ? Has that word ever been heard in s Scientology org without disgust???) and then there is plain old overreaction, which is neither evidence that you are lower than Homo Novus oer supresed reaction which is not rock solid proof that you are above everyone else on the planet.

    These days intead of a rigid scale of better and worse, insane and sane, OT and DB, I see emotions as existing as points on the surface of a sphere, none in a more revered position than another. Some more enjoyable than others, for sure ( and some downright horrid) but none criminal and none holy.

    Scientology took away from me the inaliable right to feel what I felt and instilled instead a false scale of value of emotions - I am grateful to have that right back and I defend it mercilessly. I wish all those still in the SO and still caught in the mind trap that is Scientology a return of their inaliable right to feel what they feel.

    Natascha
    Human Again


  6. Thanks Cinnamon_Girl says "thank you" for this post
    Likes Cinnamon_Girl liked this post
  7. #36

    Default

    Originally posted by Human Again
    Scientology took away from me the inaliable right to feel what I felt and instilled instead a false scale of value of emotions - I am grateful to have that right back and I defend it mercilessly. I wish all those still in the SO and still caught in the mind trap that is Scientology a return of their inaliable right to feel what they feel.
    Here here!

    Taking it back felt like a gift.





    The birds they sang, at the break of day
    Start again, I seemed to hear them say
    Do not dwell on what has passed away
    or what is yet to be ...

    Leonard Cohen.




  8. #37
    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    On a small mountain surrounded by many acres of forest.
    Posts
    8,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Human Again View Post
    Now that we're out, we can look at the theory of the Tone Scale and see that actually there is no better or worse emotion - there is an apporpriate emotion, depending on our entire history, the situation in front of us, the goal we have in mind, the realtionship with the object of possible anger etc.... there is our actual and natural emotion (OMG! Natural ? Has that word ever been heard in s Scientology org without disgust???) and then there is plain old overreaction, which is neither evidence that you are lower than Homo Novus oer supresed reaction which is not rock solid proof that you are above everyone else on the planet.

    These days intead of a rigid scale of better and worse, insane and sane, OT and DB, I see emotions as existing as points on the surface of a sphere, none in a more revered position than another. Some more enjoyable than others, for sure ( and some downright horrid) but none criminal and none holy.

    Scientology took away from me the inaliable right to feel what I felt and instilled instead a false scale of value of emotions - I am grateful to have that right back and I defend it mercilessly. I wish all those still in the SO and still caught in the mind trap that is Scientology a return of their inaliable right to feel what they feel.

    Natascha
    Actually, that is pretty much what I always thought after studying Hubbard's info on the Tone Scale. The idea, as I understood it, was to address and handle the emergence of inappropriate emotions that swell up from the deepest recesses of ones unconscious - feeling sad when the situation should make you feel happy, feeling afaid when no actual reason to feel fear exists, feeling happy when your wonderful and good friend dies, etc.

    I recall reading Hubbard state quite clearly that a being in good shape would simply feel the appropriate emotion for the situation at hand. But also, for me, I find that the more I am unattached to the physical body, that emotions are less of a factor in experience. I also have done many drills of my own mocking up joy, serenity, golden light and spaciousness, and in the end, emotions seem to be created entirely by YOU. Whether you know it or not. That is also an idea of Hubbard's and it has always rung true for me, based on my own experiences and observations. For the most part, I can now turn on "joy" at will. A truly face-bursting, ear-to-ear grinning joy!

    In effect, it seems that you have to put the emotion "into anything" you feel, and to experience the full impact of emotions, one conveniently forgets that one is mocking it up or participating to such a large degree in the process, and thus can better "be the effect of the emotional energy". It seems that on the emotional level, many beings enjoy "being the effect". But, it is far easier to "be the effect" of emotions (or any energy) when you conveniently forget that you are causing it in the first place!

    In eastern studies, the "emotional body" is its own thing. As with anything, it needs to be understood and mastered (from an eastern adept sort of viewpoint).
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

  9. #38
    Patron with Honors BAYCB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    In effect, it seems that you have to put the emotion "into anything" you feel, and to experience the full impact of emotions, one conveniently forgets that one is mocking it up or participating to such a large degree in the process, and thus can better "be the effect of the emotional energy". It seems that on the emotional level, many beings enjoy "being the effect". But, it is far easier to "be the effect" of emotions (or any energy) when you conveniently forget that you are causing it in the first place!.
    Gadfly, great post. I completly agree. One definition for emotion that I heard on an briefing course tape was "emotion.... is just thought in motion." I always felt this simple definition really nailed it as to it's source.
    Ron Minor

  10. #39
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,670

    Default First red flags

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Girl View Post
    What was the first "red flag" that you saw upon entering an org, or the very first weird thing that you noticed that you let go or ignored?

    Mine was watching a video of a supposed marital counseling "session", and noticing that the couple in the video were really real actors. I commented on that to my then boss and DSM, not knowing how to express how weird I thought that was.

    Later that evening I was walking by the auditing rooms and saw a label on the door that said "confessional". And when I commented on that, she said to the org staff that I was being "keyed in" because of my Catholic background as a child.

    I should've been a lot more critical than I was at the time.
    the very first red flag was seeing some staffer at the SanFran org in 74 or
    75, some chick that I didn't know, yelling at some other chick who was down on her knees with a bucket and water and cleaner to do some cleaning. The chick on the floor seemed really, really, really beaten down, and it wasn't just the work, I could see she was being made to feel like shit. I somehow put this out of my head and kept on going without any inquiries. Had I inquired and pushed the issue it may have saved me a great deal of time and money.

    Pete

  11. #40
    Patron Irayam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lausanne, Switzerland
    Posts
    44

    Default

    My first red flag was watching a supposed OTVII looking for some papers that she had lost somewhere.
    No perfect memory ? No amazing searching OT abilities ?
    I had then a lot of other similar red flag (OT with a broken leg, OT with glasses, OT with a cold, etc...)
    And what about the supposed brilliant Ron's achievements like his boring photograph "skill" and pathetic "music" ?

    Irayam
    Stable exterior to scientology with full perceptions on its real nature.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Email from Flag - the New Welcome Back to Flag Package
    By sallydannce in forum Leaks (leaked emails and other stuff)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 30th September 2011, 06:18 PM
  2. Hastings, UK, Nov 1st Miniraid Post Game
    By narCONon in forum Europe
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2nd November 2008, 04:51 PM
  3. BRISTOL UK, NEXT MINI RAID 1ST NOV.
    By Windy Miller in forum Europe
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11th October 2008, 11:41 AM
  4. 1st SP declare!
    By Alan in forum Scientology technology
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 30th April 2007, 11:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •