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Thread: The 1st Red Flag

  1. #51
    Gottabrain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div6 View Post
    We sent our ED out for OEC\FEBC training (and OT III)...she came back a mouse.
    Well, Scilo is all about reincarnation, isn't it? :D

    My first red flag was not getting through KSW because I disagreed with all of it and the sup arranged for me to get CCHs. BRAINWASHING! So I got through it. True story.

  2. #52
    Lurking. Doom's Avatar
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    Exclamation Sea of Red flags

    Living and working in the Sea Org was like this

    But one red flag stuck big time was when at the Brisbane org one of the two brand new OT VIIIs was sick on arrival back from the Fartwinds that was the begining of the end for me.
    Doom is Doom, Look, Dont listen
    Aaron Judge Ex SO, Ex Course Admin, Ex Security Guard AOSH ANZO

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  4. #53
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    Default Red Flags

    My first was when a Franchise owner my husband and I were working for came back from doing some OT level nutier than a fruit cake. And this led to a comm ev originated by him. That's when I walked out the door.

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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon View Post
    My first red flag was the pretentious images of LRH-- the ubiquitous bronze bust, and especially that dumb black-and-white photo of him wearing an ascot and holding a big, fluffy ostrich plume pen in his hand. (I searched a bit, but didn't find it on the net.)
    Is this the one?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #55
    Gold Meritorious Patron Lurker5's Avatar
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    Default NICE !

    Quote Originally Posted by Human Again View Post
    Now that we're out, we can look at the theory of the Tone Scale and see that actually there is no better or worse emotion - there is an apporpriate emotion, depending on our entire history, the situation in front of us, the goal we have in mind, the realtionship with the object of possible anger etc.... there is our actual and natural emotion (OMG! Natural ? Has that word ever been heard in s Scientology org without disgust???) and then there is plain old overreaction, which is neither evidence that you are lower than Homo Novus oer supresed reaction which is not rock solid proof that you are above everyone else on the planet.

    These days intead of a rigid scale of better and worse, insane and sane, OT and DB, I see emotions as existing as points on the surface of a sphere, none in a more revered position than another. Some more enjoyable than others, for sure ( and some downright horrid) but none criminal and none holy.

    Scientology took away from me the inaliable right to feel what I felt and instilled instead a false scale of value of emotions - I am grateful to have that right back and I defend it mercilessly. I wish all those still in the SO and still caught in the mind trap that is Scientology a return of their inaliable right to feel what they feel.

    Natascha
    Very nice - a fine comment
    Cautious as one crossing thin ice . . .
    (LaoTze-TaoDeJing, Chapter 15. 2nd verse . . . )

    For Ray - I have not forgotten you, my friend
    Or you Scott, this is for you too. I hope you are out.
    Kay is out . . .

  8. #56
    Gold Meritorious Patron Lurker5's Avatar
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    Default Me? - I wondered . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    Actually, that is pretty much what I always thought after studying Hubbard's info on the Tone Scale. The idea, as I understood it, was to address and handle the emergence of inappropriate emotions that swell up from the deepest recesses of ones unconscious - feeling sad when the situation should make you feel happy, feeling afaid when no actual reason to feel fear exists, feeling happy when your wonderful and good friend dies, etc.

    I recall reading Hubbard state quite clearly that a being in good shape would simply feel the appropriate emotion for the situation at hand. But also, for me, I find that the more I am unattached to the physical body, that emotions are less of a factor in experience. I also have done many drills of my own mocking up joy, serenity, golden light and spaciousness, and in the end, emotions seem to be created entirely by YOU. Whether you know it or not. That is also an idea of Hubbard's and it has always rung true for me, based on my own experiences and observations. For the most part, I can now turn on "joy" at will. A truly face-bursting, ear-to-ear grinning joy!

    In effect, it seems that you have to put the emotion "into anything" you feel, and to experience the full impact of emotions, one conveniently forgets that one is mocking it up or participating to such a large degree in the process, and thus can better "be the effect of the emotional energy". It seems that on the emotional level, many beings enjoy "being the effect". But, it is far easier to "be the effect" of emotions (or any energy) when you conveniently forget that you are causing it in the first place!

    In eastern studies, the "emotional body" is its own thing. As with anything, it needs to be understood and mastered (from an eastern adept sort of viewpoint).
    Tone Scale - I wondered where 'love' was at - was it hidden in there at the top somewhere? (RED FLAG !)
    Cautious as one crossing thin ice . . .
    (LaoTze-TaoDeJing, Chapter 15. 2nd verse . . . )

    For Ray - I have not forgotten you, my friend
    Or you Scott, this is for you too. I hope you are out.
    Kay is out . . .

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  10. #57
    Patron Meritorious thefiredragon's Avatar
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    My red flag was after I got out from Sea Org. I walked in the local org one day and saw their classroom almost empty. I've been in many Orgs before
    and classrooms were always ful of people. When I saw only a couple of students,I thought something has changed.
    ~

  11. #58

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    My red flag was the first clear I met. (There wasn't an OT anywhere around at the time.) He smoked dope constantly. That should have been proof that it was all bullshit, but no. I was given the clear cannibal line and accepted it.

  12. #59
    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker5 View Post
    Tone Scale - I wondered where 'love' was at - was it hidden in there at the top somewhere? (RED FLAG !)
    As far as I understand things, and this isn't necessarily from a Scientology viewpoint, emotions largely refer to "feelings" experienced "through a body".

    "Love" is more of a "spiritual energy". Certain eastern views describe "love" as the motivating force behind any and all creation. And, as far as human beings go, then there is also "inflow" type love and "outflow" type love. And those are two very different things, so different that they should probably have different words to define them.

    I have read some people say that "love" could be thought of as "affinity" in the ARC triangle, where love has different degrees and intensities as one goes up or down the tone scale. But, that never really made total sense to me.

    But yeah, the lack of "Love" as any sort of valid idea in Scn was also a huge red flag for me. The omission of THAT concept was a big outpoint.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

  13. #60
    Gold Meritorious Patron Lurker5's Avatar
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    Default Thank you, Gad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    As far as I understand things, and this isn't necessarily from a Scientology viewpoint, emotions largely refer to "feelings" experienced "through a body".

    "Love" is more of a "spiritual energy". Certain eastern views describe "love" as the motivating force behind any and all creation. And, as far as human beings go, then there is also "inflow" type love and "outflow" type love. And those are two very different things, so different that they should probably have different words to define them.

    I have read some people say that "love" could be thought of as "affinity" in the ARC triangle, where love has different degrees and intensities as one goes up or down the tone scale. But, that never really made total sense to me.

    But yeah, the lack of "Love" as any sort of valid idea in Scn was also a huge red flag for me. The omission of THAT concept was a big outpoint.
    Thank you, Gad - love the avatar :D
    Cautious as one crossing thin ice . . .
    (LaoTze-TaoDeJing, Chapter 15. 2nd verse . . . )

    For Ray - I have not forgotten you, my friend
    Or you Scott, this is for you too. I hope you are out.
    Kay is out . . .

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