Free Heber!!

[Anonycat]

I can't throw any stones. It's my feeling that everyone who has ever been on staff has hurt people. Some worse than others.

If you're in a global criminal organization, you have done bad things.

I dedicate a good bit of time bringing the cult down to make up for the ignorance I had when I was in it, and for any damage done to others.

[Atalantan]

You people... you people have... I think that, you know... about your -- [resumes shouting] Because you love drugs don't you! You think drugs is a wonderful thing, don't you! You love drugs, don't you Dennis! Dennis, you love drugs, don't you, huh? You love drugs. And you hate us because we take people off of drugs. [querulously] Are you on drugs right now Dennis? Dennis. (demanding) What are you on? What are you on, Dennis?

http://issuepedia.org/1995-09-30_Heber_on_KFI/text

Zinj

Excellent find!

[Blue Spirit]

You forgot the ack on that last. ;)

Actually, one doesn't Ack until the command is carried out and that could take

a while with them chasing you !

[Ned Kelly]

But...it is YOU that is claiming that I supposedly "...tacitly support inhuman treatment of others". With a lifelong track record of supporting human rights, are you expecting me to defend your silly, baseless accusations?

As far as "how can we condone the CoS abusing one of it's own?": Again, you seem to be attacking a wrong target here. It is Heber who is the abuser, not me. I am not in the cult. He is. I don't lie for the cult. He does. I don't protect the cult. He does. I don't abuse human rights. He does (others and his own!).

Wacky! I am getting people out of the cult and supporting those who are having difficulty with leaving. But you like your idea better, that I am an intolerant abuser of human rights.

Perhaps if I was a non-stop lie & brag machine, like Heber, I would be promoting my work and support of human rights. But, I don't do it for praise.

You are flailing about in confusion about my posts, filled with some kind of righteous indignation.

But, you have picked a wrong target.

You stated in your post:

"If Heber's brains are so fried that he can't figure a way out, then he deserves to be there cuz he damaged his own brains by abusing himself (and others) with the technology of Scientology."

My point is that no one deserves this treatment. You on the other hand have stated that Heber does.

I am not attacking your credentials in any way. You are obviously taking it that way, and I wish you wouldn't. You stated "then he deserves to be there cuz he damaged his own brains by abusing himself (and others) with the technology of Scientology."

I do not believe Heber or anyone else deserves to be treated the way that one is treated on the RPF or in the hole. My understanding of your statement is that you believe he does

There is no other point I am making and I am not making any point about you personally other than the point above. So please do not try and turn this around on me by insinuating or otherwise that I am attacking you or saying you are an abuser of human rights. I have never said that.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Does anyone think it appropriate to go barging in there and stop them? How about monks flagellating themselves? People fasting for Lent?I know there are differences, but isn't it fundamentally the same thing — undergoing personal privations because one believes at the time suffering them is the right thing to do?

But Scientology's privations are so much more ethical...becuz once a Scientologist has suffered thru them, they can once and forever purge themselves of Bt's, Beans & Baptismal Beatings.

[byte301]

I don't like anyone being in the hole, the RPF, the RPF's RPF, the SO, or the CoS.

That's why most of us are here, right?

But just the fact that Marty is making an issue of Heber being in the hole makes my ears prick up.

Why is Heber an issue all of a sudden? Just because they didn't drag him out of the hole for the CNN thing? What about Starkey? He looked pretty nuts to me and he should probably be set free too.

Hey Davey, set em all free! If they love you they'll come back to you. Maybe with Marty as their new COB.

There's got to be an ulterior motive imo.

[HelluvaHoax!]

You stated in your post:"If Heber's brains are so fried that he can't figure a way out, then he deserves to be there cuz he damaged his own brains by abusing himself (and others) with the technology of Scientology."My point is that no one deserves this treatment. You on the other hand have stated that Heber does.I am not attacking your credentials in any way. You are obviously taking it that way, and I wish you wouldn't. You stated "then he deserves to be there cuz he damaged his own brains by abusing himself (and others) with the technology of Scientology."I do not believe Heber or anyone else deserves to be treated the way that one is treated on the RPF or in the hole. My understanding of your statement is that you believe he does There is no other point I am making and I am not making any point about you personally other than the point above. So please do not try and turn this around on me by insinuating or otherwise that I am attacking you or saying you are an abuser of human rights. I have never said that.

Thanks for quoting me:

"If Heber's brains are so fried that he can't figure a way out, then he deserves to be there cuz he damaged his own brains by abusing himself (and others) with the technology of Scientology."

Tragically, how true! If you play around with explosives, you deserve whatever happens. I didn't make it up. That's how life is. Fretful hand wringing for a guy who just blew his hands off doesn't change anything.

Let's add a corollary axiom:

"If Heber decides to go to a Las Vegas casino in search of prosperity, but instead ends up being bankrupt with a bad hangover, then he deserves to be so, cuz he damaged his own assets and body by abusing himself with the technology of gambling."

Heber has had bad luck in those salvation casinos, he should stay away.

Does that help? :D

[Atalantan]

Have I heard his side of the story? Yes, I posted his side as a link in his televised interview on national TV. His "side" was lies,hubris, propaganda, misdirection, attacking wrong targets and ridiculous buffoonery where sober reflection, humility and truth seeking, instead, was required.

Have I looked at the positive side of his life? That is appropriate after someone has been convicted of a crime in order to adjudicate a proper prison sentence. I am not trying nor punishing Heber. He has done quite enough of that himself. I am not concerned with the good things he did because I am not declaring him either. If someone runs up to my car with a hammer and shatters the windshield, i am likewise not concerned with the positive side of his life. I will, however, observe that if Heber had done a great deal of good in this world, I sincerely doubt he would be "trapped" in a cult compound with flunky voodoo tech being used to keep him inside (which he believes is real tech which is why he never escapes).


Do I only want to know enough to destroy? Whom am i trying to destroy? Heber did this all by himself without my help. I am not trying to destroy anyone. What is that....a bad hangover from Scn attack/introversion policy to ask me a ClownTech question like that? Egads, sir, you are reeking of cult---perhaps a fresh shower and change of clothes would be good for your next visit.

If you feel so strongly about rescuing Heber, go launch your own Chuck Norris Missing In Action rescue at Int Base. Or do something. Why are you outraged that someone has spotted Heber as a major perpetrator in building the cult of Scientology's empire. Why are you worried about my uncaring attitude towards a liar and con man like Heber who thinks nothing about protecting murderers?

If you feel compelled to correct someone, why don't you start with Heber. When you get a good product there, let me know by posting his reformation testimonial, complete with all the lies and crimes he committed and/or has personal knowledge of. If I don't see Heber turn that corner, I will know that he is unrepentent and therefore merits no sympathy from me.

I do not disagree with what you have posted above.

Something in one of your earlier posts triggered my previous responses; I am not outraged that "some spotted Heber as a major perpetrator"; I am sensitive to two things generally - 1. people of any persuasion all being lumped together under one run=bric, and 2. any one-sided representation of a person or group.

There are wrong acts,and there are right acts, but the same person may be guilty of wrong acts, yet be credited with right acts in other areas of his life.

Heber is no different than a US President's press secretary or any official position like that. The people in those kind of political positions lie, period.

Something in an earlier post of yours came across as very absolute. Perhaps I misread your meaning, perhaps not.

Let the discussion proceed by all means.

[TG1]

I like strawberry.

I like ice cream too, but I prefer vanilla.

Glad to hear you like ice cream, but strawberry is much better.

No it’s not. Vanilla is better.

Like I said, strawberry is much, much better. In fact, you’re not so bright, are you?

I’m plenty bright. If strawberry is so great, why does it have those stupid red things in there, not to mention those seeds?

The seeds aren’t the point – it’s the flavor of the strawberries that’s so good. You’re an idiot if you can’t recognize that’s the main difference that makes it so good. I mean better.

Why would anybody except a stupid asshole need anything except the purest form of ice cream ever invented – vanilla. What’s wrong with you that you need anything added to the original ice cream?

Fuck you! You have never even tried strawberry ice cream, have you? You stupid fucking asshole! What are you doing here? This is a place for people who love strawberry ice cream!

No, fuck you! And I never will try it. You are the stupid fucking asshole. And not even just you, but all the other people who prefer vanilla – even if it’s not the only flavor they ever eat.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Heber is no different than a US President's press secretary or any official position like that. The people in those kind of political positions lie, period.

Okay, maybe you can absolve Heber for lying like a motherfucker. But...

When I pay a fortune to buy the "ultimate truths" about the universe, it is disappointing to find out that the person selling it to me is a liar.

Give me my money back, Heber, and all is forgiven.

What's that you say, Heber, you don't have my money any more?

You say you took a vow of poverty?

I didn't.