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Thread: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

  1. #1
    Gold Meritorious Patron clamicide's Avatar
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    Default Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    After someone asking about whether anyone was ever actually made to do cleaning with a toothbrush and knowing I saw it done thought might be interesting to create a thread of various things like that we experienced from lower conditions or just plain punishment for low stats.

    As a TTC member at our org the policy on Too Gruesomes was often applied. This was where you were supposed to pick a consequence that was 'too gruesome to face'--the point being if you didn't make your target or quota you would have to do this thing. Instead it resulted in staff doing a lot of physical labor and such.

    Talking to my son last night, it turned out he had been put on toothbrush duty several times.

    Other things off the top of my head:

    Cleaning bathrooms. OMG! Totally forgot that a fellow TTCer was put on cleaning BATHROOMS with a toothbrush.

    Cleaning rugs with a rag and turpentine.

    Scrubbing trash dumpster.

    Being made to run laps around the building while people yelled degrading things at you. Found out my son did this while being chased by staff and having rocks thrown at his back.

    Death threats.

    House broken into and then physically escorted into building and made to sit alone in a tiny room for the day--no break, no food, etc.

    Having car keys taken from you and locked so you could not 'escape'.

    Five minute breaks for lunch and dinner--and usually not getting the full 5.

    There's a lot more, but that is a start. And this wasn't the SO. This was a regular org.
    I don't recognize you--I've changed a lot. Oscar Wilde

    "I used to have a lot of faith in humanity before the advent of the website 'comment' section" -- Jim Gaffigan

    I joined a religion started by a science fiction writer that used a double cross as its symbol, and then they tried to sell me a bridge.....what could have possibly gone wrong?

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  3. #2
    Crusader RogerB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Jezzuzz, clamicide, when was this??

    I do remember that line in the HCOP of making the punishment too horrible to suffer such that a person would never want to get into or stay in the Condition of Liability.

    But what I am seeing in the scenario you write of is pure sadism run amock.

    The change point in cult behavior seems to have occurred in around 1968 . . . that with the advent of the SO "total ethics power" shit . . . .

    The HCO P/L that introduced the notion of the "Ethics Conditions" was published in 1967 . . . prior to that we only had the "operating conditions" . . .

    The more I look at all this the more and more I see how evil and insane Hubbard actually was.

    Rog
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    Don't show me the money . . . give me the TRUTH!
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    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    In my time in the SO (1972-1996) I remember countless tasks having to be done with inadequate tools (the org couldn't afford proper ones), but not one of those involving deliberate tool withholding as punishment comes to mind. On a broader view one could consider the inadequate financing made worse by payments uplines punishment by Hubbard etc, but I was looking at it on a more personal level.

    There was lots of punishment involving restriction of time to eat food, less/no sleep, less/no pay and more of course. But nothing too juicy comes to mind, though.

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Under the kitchen at big blue is 4 foot high crawl space that allows access to all the drain pipes from the (approx) 1400 sq ft kitchen above. Back in the 80s when I was 15 and on the RPF, the RPFs RPFs job was to clean the crawl space. Most of the drains leaked because the estates staff refused to go down there, so the floor would be covered in 1/2 inch of fat, food and water from the steam kettles.


    It was very hot and humid because most the cooking was done with the massive steam kettles, and it was very common to get burned on drain and steam pipes. This also made it a great home for the namesake (rats) and there far more numerous little friends, cockroaches. When we went in, the rats would leave, but the roaches would sit there, watching you. And not little roaches, these were 2-3 inch long palmetto bug monsters; millions of them covered the floor, walls and ceiling of the crawl space.


    So we would go in there with nothing but a hose, brooms, rubber gloves and flat furniture dollies to roll around on. And we had to stay in uniform, so if you were unlucky enough to be doing this in the summer, you were in shorts and t-shirt.


    I had to do rats alley clean up 3 times and after 30 years, I still shudder at the thought of it.

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  9. #5

    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Quote Originally Posted by clamicide View Post

    Cleaning bathrooms. OMG! Totally forgot that a fellow TTCer was put on cleaning BATHROOMS with a toothbrush.
    Yeah, I was once threatened with this by the ED. I guess the look in my face told her that I really didn't care if my stats were going to go up (there was no way they could go up at that point) if the consequence of not doing so was going to have to clean bathrooms with a toothbrush. And I told her I wasn't doing it and whoever made the policy was crazy (really didn't believe that would have been a lrh policy . )

    I was also told that if I didn't go back to the SO I was going to be send back to my home country. I made a huge deal of it and got everyone I knew in scio involved... obviously nothing happened with that threat.

    I thought then that they were all crazy, little I knew, they were.

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  11. #6
    Crusader RogerB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Yes . . . the place has gone insane.

    You relative newbies might not realize the sequence of HCO Pols that were issued on the "Ethics Conditions" bullshit that set up this criminal scenario.

    Originally, we had the Operating Conditions . . . 1965: Power down to Non-Existence.

    In 1967 the first of the "Ethics Conditions" pols was issued with the Liability Formula . . . and at the time, that was it! The lowest condition you could be assigned . . . and it was here that the notion of making the "penalties so horrible" etc., were introduced, and in writing in that HCO PL.

    Later, then came even lower conditions (they got changed about and rejigged) as Hubbard dreamed up his shit . . . at one time Enemy and Treason were in different positions.

    So, when one looks at the insanity of what Liability was touted as and the assigning of the condition was supposed to do; well, one can get a sense of how insane the system had to get to inflict even harsher conditions and punishment for lower than the original "worst of the worst."

    Also insane is the fact of assigning the lowest conditions to people straight off . . . what ever happened to the idea of "lightest touch first!"????

    I look at the history of this crazy organization and its shit and simply see that they are so insanely in FEAR of "badness" and "error" that all they can think to do is to attack and attempt to destroy . . . even if and when they do not understand WTF they are doing and why!

    R
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    Don't show me the money . . . give me the TRUTH!
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  12. #7

    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Some of my tasks: cleaning dumpsters till you could lick them clean, killing cockroaches (my stat was number of roaches killed), digging ditches, carrying 5 gallon buckets of sand all day, cleaning 4 days in a row with no sleep, 10 minute meals, running wherever I went (not allowed to walk), not allowed to shower for days at a time, 20+ hour days, being ignored, being yelled degrading things to as I passed by, and only eating rice and/or beans for weeks at a time......these are just a few that stick out....and I was a young teenager when this happened.


    BeenLiedTo

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    Comfortably Numb strativarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Quote Originally Posted by BeenLiedTo View Post
    Some of my tasks: cleaning dumpsters till you could lick them clean, killing cockroaches (my stat was number of roaches killed), digging ditches, carrying 5 gallon buckets of sand all day, cleaning 4 days in a row with no sleep, 10 minute meals, running wherever I went (not allowed to walk), not allowed to shower for days at a time, 20+ hour days, being ignored, being yelled degrading things to as I passed by, and only eating rice and/or beans for weeks at a time......these are just a few that stick out....and I was a young teenager when this happened.


    BeenLiedTo
    I'm assuming you were on the RPF. Are you saying these were the conditions as a regular SO member? I was on the RPF (a long time ago admittedly) but compared to the above I lived a blissful existence.
    "Is", "is." "is"óthe idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything "is"; I only know how it seems to me at this moment.
    ó Robert Anton Wilson, The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles, as spoken by Sigismundo Celine.

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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Quote Originally Posted by strativarius View Post
    I'm assuming you were on the RPF. Are you saying these were the conditions as a regular SO member? I was on the RPF (a long time ago admittedly) but compared to the above I lived a blissful existence.
    Yes...I was on the RPF. That is where most of that took place. Regular SO was just long hours, cleaning etc....the rice and beans was in the SO...our Org was flat broke lol....go figure. My life as a kid before the SO was mest work and lots of it. I had a very lonely childhood with lots of cleaning, OW write ups, and conditions.....I can't tell you how many times I did lowers at a 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old. I would be assigned lowers if I didnt clean the kitchen well, or if I stayed out late, or if I got a C in school for something. When I got C's in two classes I was assigned lowers, all of my clothes were taken away except one outfit (I was in 8th grade, very embarrassing), and no one was allowed to talk to me in the family. This went on for about 3 months.

    BeenLiedTo

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    Default Re: Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerB View Post
    In 1967 the first of the "Ethics Conditions" pols was issued with the Liability Formula . . . and at the time, that was it! The lowest condition you could be assigned . . . and it was here that the notion of making the "penalties so horrible" etc., were introduced, and in writing in that HCO PL.
    In regular businesses in a market economy, the formula for Liability (the condition where you are deemed to be of negative worth to the company) is very simple: "You're fired". The person is kicked out, and left to figure out how to make himself employable on his own time.

    The SO does not want to fire people. Sea Org members are effectively slaves. They do not receive compensation in line with the value of their work. So to make them work harder, the slave overseers must use punishments.
    If you donít offend anyone, you also donít inspire anyone.

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