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Thread: Out-Int — Fact or Fiction?

  1. #61
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    I had numerous End of Endless Out-Int rundowns (and dont get me started on the number of PTS handlings) in an effort to try to handle my migraines. It never did, and I always wondered why the bloody thing read - proabably because I thought the whole concept of "out-int" to be a bit strange.

    Now that Im a rational thinking human again, its obvious that my migraines are a genetic nervous system disorder, and handling sleep routines and getting exercise is all that is needed to eradicate them almost entirely. Funny how reality is so much easier and less complicated than the Scio solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScnRebel View Post
    Here is my experience of Out/Int:

    For most of my life I have suffered from headaches. Over time I have issolated all of the physical reasons for them, and there have been many. Things like coffea, coke, MSG, etc. Once those were issolated, there were still times when I had headaches that went on for a long time, without there being any physical reason.

    Most of this life I have also suffered from a particularly Out/Int feeling. A feeling of not wanting to be where I am, of presures in the head, and a pissed off feeling. This started when I was about 10. Auditing did not go well for me until I eventually had an Int Rundown. At that point I finally got rid of that feeling. I could finally be where I was. It did not last long though, and about an intensive later I was back in it, and needed an Int Rundown again. That was how my auditing went. I probably had about 12 Int Rundowns, or repairs. But every time I had one, it would actually handle the way that I felt. I could eventually tell exactly when I was out-int. Sometimes it went away after a few months by itself. But it was not a good condition to be in. So for me, the condition was totally real. The data behind it was not though. It did not make correct sense. If it did, and the data was correct, I would only have need one Int Rundown. That fact that people who are int prone need loads and loads of int rundowns and corrections would point to an outpoint in the Tech behind it.

    When I did my OT levels and I got to OT V where they address BT's that are out-int, this made the data make a bit more sense. I realised that it was not me feeling the feeling, but a BT. The feeling would be there till the BT blew. I know a lot of you don't believe in BT's, but that made sense to me.

    When I left Scn and started doing FreeSolo, the aspect of Int started taking on a new flavour. Here is what I think Int is based on what I have done:

    In your auditing or in life (more likely in auditing) your attention gets put onto an Entity (call it BT if you like). Either the auditing wakens up the Entity, or the Entity is being audited and wakes up (lets not go into whether this is a real live thetan, lets just assume it is a bit of life force). It now is aware of where it is. It comes as a horror, and it wants to leave. But it is stuck, and doesn't know how to leave. So there are all your Int buttons. Stuck, Trapped, Pushed In, Pulled In, Can't get out, etc. It is the entity that is feeling this. He is trapped and can't get out, and because he is right in your face, you feel all of this. You feel trapped, ect. You then go in session. What you don't realise is that because the entity is right there on your attention, it is him being audited. He goes earlier on recalls till he recalls going in in the first place. That then breaks the hold of him into your space and he leaves. And there goes your Out-Int, with all of your Out-Int phenomena.

    If you don't address Int on him, the auditing will grind, as that is all his attention is on. This is why people with the condition don't progress and get worse. It could also be that more and more BT's are waking up.

    So you feel good because it is now gone. You have not really had any case change, other than getting rid of an entity.

    To me, this is all I ever did on any of my auditing. The auditing would audit an entity. That entity would waken and either blow or not. If he did not blow, the Out-Int phenomena would occur and I would need Int Rundown.

    The interesting things is that I have not had this out-int phenomena since doing FreeSolo. That is almost a year of no condition. And that was from having to need it every few months, even if I was not having any auditing.

    So that is my reality. You can say that it is all Placebo effect. Fine. You could say the whole universe is just a mock-up and your would be right. Scn always used to push the fact that it was all a consideration anyway, and you could just postulate that any condition is not the way it is, and it would be gone. That is possible. But being stuck in an Out-Int condition is not funny. I am sure that more suicides have been committed with people being Out-Int than anything else. And I know this from the way I used to feel.

    So in my opinion, this is what makes normal auditing dangerous. This side effect of auditing to throw you Out-Int.
    I have had many of these same considerations and experiences. You put it very well here ScnRebel. Out Int was the grizzliest charge I ever had to grapple with in Scientology.

    I noticed right after Dianetics that I was no longer part of a generalized conglomerate. No longer anchored to a composite. I had separated out and away from many masses having to do with living as a human. I was outside and away of this fixed 'package'. Later, when I became very causative and started practicing pan determinism I got sharp pains in my head. I'd never had head pains previous to this. I had 13 Int Rundowns inside the C of S. They helped but I did not stay fixed for long.. Not even the end of endless ended the drama..The more subjective processing I got the worse I became. I too ended up almost suicidal.

    During one period I seemed to rehab an INT skill I had acquired in a previous existence. Some ancient meditation ..... "The Eyes of Horus." It pulls your head out of any game it is shoved up inside and gives back the state of static 'viewer' while connected to human form.. I tried to attain to this again this lifetime... and had unlasting success. At a later time I tried to vacate my body and skip off. This made me vulnerable to horrible head pains. I can't describe the fear....like a whole tribunal would effect punishment from 'outside' somewhere..
    In getting repairs I actually found incidents of going thru a softening up process where ridges were installed and penalties agreed to. This right before entering into a control universe. This charge was so buried that when I found it my adrenals kicked in and I had a nervous breakdown. The composite masses I'd strung together to live a life as an individual human in a state of Not Know and comfort went bonkers . While in the flesh I pulled in opponents' attention from another universe. I was up the creek without a paddle. I needed auditing so that I could just continue to function through this craziness, yet it was auditing that woke up these sleeping dogs. A catch 22. I became PTS to getting intensives..Every time I got on the ball to make money for my next repair I got hurt. My car needed repair 8 times. Broke down on the way to Flag twice. Also going to the airport on the sojourn to
    AOLA. Numerous freaky stops, stops stops.
    My experience is that there are myriad levels of charge stacked up on the subjects of going in or being trapped or not being able to get out etc____.
    Once when I lost a job I had severe panic attacks about what I was going to do or be___NOW. I had money but the anxiety about which new game I would now interiorize into and let consume my attention and energy was hefty.
    Last edited by Hatshepsut; 14th July 2010 at 06:14 AM.
    " In this universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link"___Carlos Castaneda

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoNuclear View Post
    (snip) To which the answer would always be "I can't evaluate for you!" or some similar horseshit. Eventually it would be "Your needle is floating, end of session" and I would walk away baffled and feeling ripped off, feeling as if I spent my auditing session talking to someone from another planet who was not speaking the same language. Of course, I would relax enough to get past the examiner, heaven for-fucking-bid that I would have to deal with a bad exam and all of the horseshit that would go with that. Pete
    There is more to the universe(s) then all the words of all the men that have ever lived could ever begin to describe.

    EVERYTHING in scientology, to some degree, is a lie. RUN! Do not look back!

    For something more positive and healing, for those in pain, have a look at this website: http://mynaturalpainrelief.net

  4. #64
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    Cool I'll say...

    Quote Originally Posted by ScnRebel View Post
    (snip)So in my opinion, this is what makes normal auditing dangerous. This side effect of auditing to throw you Out-Int.
    "Normal" 'auditing'? Any 'auditing' is a bunch of contrived delusional horseshit. My 2¢.
    There is more to the universe(s) then all the words of all the men that have ever lived could ever begin to describe.

    EVERYTHING in scientology, to some degree, is a lie. RUN! Do not look back!

    For something more positive and healing, for those in pain, have a look at this website: http://mynaturalpainrelief.net

  5. #65
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    Here's your change. LOL :D
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia. 34 years in scientology 1974 - 2008
    No longer a scientologist.
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    It may not be a perfect placebo, but its a workable placebo.

    A placebo that works is good medecine!
    Standard tech is a subset of LRH tech. LRH tech is a subset of freezone tech. Freezone tech is a subset of all possible tech. - Pilot

    I think that the future lies in understanding and developing the capabilities of the mind and spirit. I might sometimes loosely call this Scientology, but I don't mean the CofS. I mean anything which works in this direction, which would even include you if you ever achieve real wisdom. - Pilot

  7. #67
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    Now that I have read the whole thread I'll tell you my story on this.

    It was on the Apollo back in 1971, my auditor was Cathy Cariotaki. I was in session on Dianetics and we got to this track incident where I was in a little jet-plane thing gunnung the engine to rev it up before going somewhere and then the plane blew up under me. Just in that split moment I pulled the ejector seat thing and blew out of the plane.

    We ran it through the first time and I felt myself wobble severely inside my head. When the auditor said to go to the beginning again I told her that if I run that again I'm going to blow right out exterior. Being a good lass she repeated the command and I duly went through it again. When I hit the ejector moment WHOOSH I was out and sitting up on some coat-hooks seeing my body and the auditor. There must have been some TA blowdown because she looked up and asked me if I was ext. Yes, I'm up here by the coat-hooks, says I. She ended the session.

    Next day I got called for session and there to audit me was David Mayo. We did an Int R/D. which was interestng in itself. All went well and smoothly and everyone was happy, especially me.

    The gains from it were huge. headaches one, but more importantly - and this I only discovered later when I was back home - my fear of crowds was gone. In the past I'd always avoided them, would go to see a movie I wanted on a Tuesday afternoon for example, when there was no onethere. NEVER at a time when others went. Also going to the beach or just anywhere, a huge chunk of case I had on going in to things a places, lifts for example I had always avoided. All that was gone and I had a tremendous freedom of movement and of going places which many (most) others took for granted but which I felt I never had. It was one of my Scio milestones, for sure.

    Also - in all the years since and the thousands of hours of auditing I've done I have never again been bothered with Int as an item. Not once ever.

    I think one thing that was missed in auditor training and that was never remedied till the HRD (and then it was tossed out soon after) is Basic Auditing skills. It was something Mayo was superb at and it underpinned the workability of the Int Rundown. Whenbasic auditing skills were poor - and these are often invisible to the C/S - the results on Int tended to be poor too.
    Standard tech is a subset of LRH tech. LRH tech is a subset of freezone tech. Freezone tech is a subset of all possible tech. - Pilot

    I think that the future lies in understanding and developing the capabilities of the mind and spirit. I might sometimes loosely call this Scientology, but I don't mean the CofS. I mean anything which works in this direction, which would even include you if you ever achieve real wisdom. - Pilot

  8. #68
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    Mark A. Baker
    Only the most basic & fundamental tools are encouraged to be used by all students in Buddhism. Buddhist practice is very much a matter of "gradients". Many practices are traditionally regarded as "too advanced" for casual use, even by moderately accomplished students. That's why it is typically regarded as taking years of dedicated effort in very thorough study & meditation practice, preferably in a monastic environment. Traditionally this is attributed to occur over many life times for an individual to have a realistic chance of achieving realization. Even then not all monks show the same degree of "mastery".
    I remember when I was young digesting everything Alan Watts wrote for students of Zen. Then I picked up a book by D. T. Suzuki and read where he states that this zen experience, this state of neither this nor that is the point after which a person is in a state where he now able to make real progress. I thought...WHAT else could there be except to become part of the cosmos and give up your role as an individual player. I cannot remember exactly what it was that confounded me so many decades ago but It was a bit of a shock to see where he was really leading. Kinda like You are IT comes full circle to an infinitely deeper You are IT.

    I've read a little about Peat. Zivorad has you process feelings and emotions from everyone point of view within the circle of drama. I thought yeah yeah group therapy. Poop. I had long ago been enamoured with the idea that I was a big being quite apart from others who had come down the dwindling spiral. I felt that was true. No connection had I. I was a late comer to the game and didn't have the same ridges. I never really felt connected to other people. But lately I can see that others have complementary roles which even allow me to entertain such notions. Their beingness helps my beingness. Beingnesses have relationship values. Kinda like in Help processes. "How can I help you?" "How can you help me?" It springs valences by reviewing the flows between the pairs. If you look at the identity in the game from its viewpoint and its purpose towards your identity and run these ideas back and forth around the board...oooops...you'll find its your own hand that is dealing cards. I never liked temporarily looking at things from behind someone else's mask. The first item on the Grade 4 list of things you use to make yourself right was the attitude "I don't have to look at things from everyone else's viewpoint__my own is good enough!"

    One would think that being able to assume the viewpoint of everyone and everything so that there is no real inside or outside to matter in the game between identities would be the end of the line. But an identity is pretty much assumed as the result of a desire to have something or manifest something. It is the vehicle one engineers to implement his designs in a certain direction. If we are 'all space'... 'all things' there is no distance to cover and no direction to go in. One must move towards or away from items. So the two poles musn't meet or the structure of the activity dissolves. I remember some of the old magic texts referring to underbelly of this universe being the NIX of the items persisting in the game. Some of the phenomena painted on the walls in Tibetan caves and the accounts of the Bardo are reminiscent of this. What were these guys warring against in their effort to sit among the gods. What are those drawings of hideous illusory monsters. Same goes for the Egyptian monsters to conquer in the underworld upon death. What is all this stuff one must grapple with upon exteriorizing from the lower realms and trying to sit amongst the gods. Same story all over everywhere you go. What gives? Could there be something to this. Have we created things to pin our anti- endeavors to so that the good stuff would seem even gooder?
    Last edited by Hatshepsut; 14th July 2010 at 07:58 AM.
    " In this universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link"___Carlos Castaneda

  9. #69
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    Leon
    I think one thing that was missed in auditor training and that was never remedied till the HRD (and then it was tossed out soon after) is Basic Auditing skills. It was something Mayo was superb at and it underpinned the workability of the Int Rundown. When basic auditing skills were poor - and these are often invisible to the C/S - the results on Int tended to be poor too.
    I'll second that...in spades!!!
    " In this universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link"___Carlos Castaneda

  10. #70
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    Ok, I'm gonna be an asshole! - There is no good reason to persuade ourselves, or anybody else, that Scientology processing is good for anything!

    Headaches!! - I've got headaches! - Occasionally.. And in infrequent periods I've had headaches often.. Never bothered me! - I never complained either.. Headaches pass.. Like colds..

    Ther could be any number of explanations for headaches that we don't know shit about. The human body is complex beyond belief.. A self maintaining and self correcting biological machine, doing it's stuff quite automatically and not needing 'us' to understand just how... In most cases.

    Of course something can be wrong with it..

    Hubbard created an extensive, and in many places, hairbrained 'tech' that seems to 'explain' about a lot of things.. Well, I don't believe in any of it! - Too many lies and tall stories out of that guy.. Makes me skeptical!

    Take a book about medicine.. In which all the known diseases and symptoms are described.. It's an authoritative book! - Well, chances are that this book will make you feel sick. Sometimes people will 'interpret' symptoms and even develop 'somatics' and convince themselves they've got cancer or 'dropy ass an wiggletoes'.

    Scientology tech works that way too. It's an 'authoritative' body of 'knowledge' about the Human Mind. And reading it, maybe you start thinking that all this shit is wrong with you.. Like having a 'Reactive Mind'.. That's a beauty of a hoodwink! - You cannot know about it! It's hidden inside your own mind. - There's all these persuasive examples of how that works. And there's the 'promise' that it can be 'fixed'..

    The scary bit is this: Dianetics, and Scientology, persuades you that you cannot trust you own mind!

    So, a 'technology' about the human mind doesn't need to be true at all! - A human can, and will, 'imagine' that it is working and is true. Even with associated 'somatics', that he can dream up, be worried about and actually feel the pain of!

    Hrrmpf.. Scientology tech can explain the reasons for headaches!? - So can Voodoo and Astrology!

    And the 'community' of people that believes in scientology tech.. I working hard to realize Scientology's political agenda. A true nightmare of a society reminiscent of Orwells 1984! - But perhaps people will not have headaches?

    Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F#*¤CK is going on!

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