My story

[Alanzo]

Mick wrote:

I do not care what Scientology and Scientologists believe, I do not care what restrictions or weird taboos they place on themselves. If my being somewhere or talking or posting makes them unable to be there, talk or write - that's their problem, not mine.

This is an interesting point.

Scientology, with its glue-like definition of "RESPONSIBILITY" and its emphasis on CONTROL and ETHICS, tends to make a person what the psychs call "co-dependent".

It's a very important concept to learn, although it can be difficult to sometimes find a straight definition for it. The best I could come up with was "trying to control others for fear of the consequences of their actions".

Note it says THEIR actions.

In Scientologese, it could be stated "Misownership of problems", or trying to solve problems of which you are not the source.

I agree fully with Mick: if you believe you should attend a funeral because you believe you should, then you should. Other peoples' problems are their own.

One of the benefits of leaving Scientology is no longer being under its insane and destructive control.

Make sure you reap ALL of those benefits for yourself.

Alanzo

[krsanna]

You mention on page 11 Able Schwartz, a kid my son played with when I was in the Sea Org. I remember when Able set the room on fire and killed a cat with a firecracker. I have a horror story about Able that was never talked about, because I handled the situation directly as a result of a guardian angel deal. However, my son did cut school with Able for 1 entire semester in the 2nd grade. By that time the kids had been put in a public school, and the school did not bother to let me know my son had skipped classes for several months. I went ballistic and eventually got my son assessed at Applied Scholastics and tutored, so he did well in school overall.

You may have known my son, who was also 2nd generation Scientologist. My son went to the ATA when he was 6 then went to the public school. He was a wiz on the games at New York George's and the waitresses liked him. In retrospect I realize that the public school where the Sea Org kids attended had a load of problems, because of the kids from the neighborhood plus the Sea Org kids. LA schools in general had a head lice problem, probably, in part, because the warm temperature was a good breeding ground. My son had head lice several times at a suburban school (San Fernando Valley).

I routed out of the Sea Org in 1982 and left Scientology in 1984. I was one of the early "ex's" who did a protest march around the complex until the FBO came out with a checkbook and refunded money. By that time, I had learned that LRH had sold his name and copyrights to the RTC in 1982 and I had seen Miscavige at work first hand. The 2D situation in the Sea Org was one reason I decided to leave, and it wasn't just the kids. It was the view of the 2D in general, often as a convenience so staff could be more effective in the org without being distracted by the 2D.

I'm glad things are going better for you now. Please feel free to PM me if you would like.

Krsanna

[Bea Kiddo]

More reflections here. In 88 - 89 I was holding reception for the PAC Gold Office. I was a kid and did not know much about Scn or anything, but a few things occured there that I would like to mention.

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One thing was that we were still playing event videos that had Vicky Aznaran in them. This would have been late 88. I am not sure when the change over occured (with COB). But I remember one public watching the video and deciding to join the Sea Org because there were so many hot chicks in the Sea Org. (Now there's the right purpose, ha ha). He thought VA was one of the hot ones.

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There was no line set up properly for the e-meter recertification line. Our office was a recruit office and an Int Readiness Unit (with Maggie Denton and Mike Gilcrest as auditors, and I think Tom Pope and William Carey as recruiters). So public would try to drop off meters and I would take them and send them uplines. They sent them back to me and told me that it was not a proper line and the public had to mail them in, or give them to Bridge. Bridge doesnt and never did handle meters. So there was a big dispute, meanwhile the public getting pissed because they would not let me accept them, though I was perfectly willing to do it. This went on for months.

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Another common thing would be people calling in asking for directions to the Hemet location. I was not cleared and did not have a clue where it is. These would be truck drivers making deliveries and so forth. So then I would have to get one of the Int Cleared people onto the phone with them to give directions.

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One time the parents of someone uplines showed up there and started a whole thing about that they were not leaving until they saw their son. Well, there son was uplines. She was really upset because I would not give her any information, plus I had none to give! She was a wog and I hadn't the slighest idea what to say. So then someone Int Cleared called uplines and got the son on the phone and they talked. She was fine. After she came up to me and asked me why I didnt just tell her that her son was in Canyon Country (I dont even know where that is now).

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Wendel was the CO Gold for a stint there and he asked that I stay with his daughter in an apartment a couple of blocks off the base. They suspected she had been molested or something and they wanted a female around her so she would feel safe. So I stayed there for 6 months or so, while her parents were away.

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When I was WAY younger (just remembered this) - maybe this was early 80's or so, if anyone knows the date better, please help. I am not good with dates. I ended up babysitting the child of Aurthur Hubbards wife. It was not his child, but he was married to someone who had a kid. They lived on the 8th floor of Lebenon Hall - they had the entire floor made into a penthouse for him, with a balcony and all. It was pretty nice actually. The kid was alright. He had a tarantula in a cage and he taught me that they are not deadly and you could actually play with them, which we did on many occasions (maybe that is why I like spiders and I have never been afraid of them).

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During this time Peter Schless was recruited for the Sea Org. I remember it because someone mentioned to me that he had taken LSD, but his approval to join the SO was overridden by his recruiter (hint, short, blond, bossy, took over running a religion) and he went through his EPF in like a week and his clearances in 24 hours and he was whisked away uplines.

There was a heavy push on musicians going uplines right in this time period, and I dont remember the names of them all, but they were all whisked uplines in very short order right in that same time period with Peter. Some of them are still there.

Right around this time, Ray Mithoff and his wife came through for Clearances too from Flag. They were whisked away in a day or two.

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These were all just things I saw - but in my own life, I was just answering phones, reading novels on post time (yep!), ditching study time, leaving early from post and practicing dancing. There was a whole group of us that were dancing and we actually did several performances in that time period.

(if anything seems confusing or doesnt make sense, feel free to ask me and I will try to clarify. My dates are jumbled up in the story a bit, cause I jump around in time, sorry about that!)

[Div6]

Whatever,

Thanks for your recollections. I was on staff during the early part of your career, in a Cl V org. It is fascinating to get the R factor from a 2nd Gen So person. Keep em coming!

[Lulu Belle]

When I was WAY younger (just remembered this) - maybe this was early 80's or so, if anyone knows the date better, please help. I am not good with dates. I ended up babysitting the child of Aurthur Hubbards wife. It was not his child, but he was married to someone who had a kid. They lived on the 8th floor of Lebenon Hall - they had the entire floor made into a penthouse for him, with a balcony and all. It was pretty nice actually. The kid was alright. He had a tarantula in a cage and he taught me that they are not deadly and you could actually play with them, which we did on many occasions (maybe that is why I like spiders and I have never been afraid of them!)

Arthur's wife at that time name was Lori. She was French. They were married around 1982.

I didn't remember them having the 8th floor of Leb Hall at the time. From what I recall, they had a room in the Main Building. Arthur got the 8th floor room a few years later. From what I was told, it was LRH's wish that that suite get renovated for his children, and Arthur was the only one left in the SO at that time.

I remember that Arthur was quite paranoid about people coming to his room. He had a gun collection.

Lori was apparently a real problem to management. I think she was a fairly new Scientologist and new in the Sea Org. She talked way too much. She wound up first retreading the EPF and then, I think about a year later, she was routed out altogether. She and Arthur got divorced.

I have no idea whatever happened to her.

[Lulu Belle]

During this time Peter Schless was recruited for the Sea Org. I remember it because someone mentioned to me that he had taken LSD, but his approval to join the SO was overridden by his recruiter (hint, short, blond, bossy, took over running a religion) and he went through his EPF in like a week and his clearances in 24 hours and he was whisked away uplines.

There was a heavy push on musicians going uplines right in this time period, and I dont remember the names of them all, but they were all whisked uplines in very short order right in that same time period with Peter. Some of them are still there.

Peter wasn't the only person "invited" to join the SO at Int who had taken LSD.

There were three fine artists at the time who were working in the LRH Art Bureau. Barry Shereshevsky, Rick Rodgers and someone named Jeannie (I think her name was Jeannie Hall). When they moved the Art Bureau uplines with PDO these three, who, if I recall correctly, had all taken LSD, were "invited" by DM to go.

All three of them declined.

I'm sure they were "persona non grata" after that.

[Lulu Belle]

There was no line set up properly for the e-meter recertification line. Our office was a recruit office and an Int Readiness Unit (with Maggie Denton and Mike Gilcrest as auditors, and I think Tom Pope and William Carey as recruiters).

Weren't Debbie Truax/Gillian and (I think) Lynette Hall recruiters there at that time as well? Do I have the same time period?

I think for a period Brian Andrus was recruiting for RTC there also.

So public would try to drop off meters and I would take them and send them uplines. They sent them back to me and told me that it was not a proper line and the public had to mail them in, or give them to Bridge. Bridge doesnt and never did handle meters. So there was a big dispute, meanwhile the public getting pissed because they would not let me accept them, though I was perfectly willing to do it. This went on for months.

Yeah, I remember the "issues" with trying to get Gold to cert and repair meters.

Bridge actually did handle meters at one time. I think it was up until the early 80s or so meters were built at Bridge in the old Bridge building. It was called "HEM" (presumably for "Hubbard E-Meter").

[Bea Kiddo]

Yeah, Debbie was a b*tch. Excuse me. I did not get along with her at all.

Lynette too. From what I recall, her husband got declared and she divorced and went uplines. He go declared because he figured out how to not have to answer his merc (like email) messages. And I think he was showing others how to do it too. You could save the message, then delete it, then delete the saved message, or something like that. And it got him declared. But I remember her still being around and maybe even making it uplines. Not for sure though.

I do remember Brian Andrus too. Short, brown hair, maybe brown eyes. Kinda cute. Very "tone 40" for lack of a better way to put it.

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About Arthur - so it must have been 82. He definitely had a wife and definitely lived on the 8th floor of Leb Hall when I was babysitting the kid. Funny thing is, I had just come back from Florida. And why did I just come back from Florida? Because my brother and I were directly connected to our dad, who was a declared SP and he was coming onto the SO property. To disconnect, my mom took us back to LA (actually, she blew Flag and came back to LA and got in trouble for it).

It's weird, with all their pyscho-ness about security that they would let me around Arthur and all, with me having just been DIRECTLY connected to an SP, and it was still at the time not fully handled.

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Thanks for your help Lulu. You are really helping me out with dates and stuff. And remembering more names. I think, because I was a kid, things were quite differently recorded for me as memory, know what I mean?

[Lulu Belle]

This was the part that got me to respond.

This is my opinion and advice only - others may think waaay dfferently.

Don't EVER allow Scientology or Scientologists to tell you how to behave or what to do merely to accommodate them and their insane beliefs.

For a couple of years after I was out and when I was first on the net (Dennis may remember..) I was pretty diffident and careful about telling someone who was a Scientologist that I was declared and that they should not be talking to me. Then I started to get a clue (slowly) that this was a truly nutty way to do things.

I do not care what Scientology and Scientologists believe, I do not care what restrictions or weird taboos they place on themselves. If my being somewhere or talking or posting makes them unable to be there, talk or write - that's their problem, not mine.

AS for your mother's admonition about your grandparents funeral - do what you wish to do. Your mom is free to do the same.

You know, Mick, I'm sure you're right about this.

But I have to admit I have trouble with this, too.

I have deliberately avoided situations where I would be communicating with a "Scientologist in good standing" because I didn't want to "get them in trouble".

The reason for this is that when I was in, I had a couple of situations where a person that I had known who left the church got me in trouble by implying that we were still in contact with each other. And a "wog" friend of mine from before I got into Scientology did something similar.

To me, it's sort of sort of a "respect" thing. If you were a Scientologist, you know the deal. You know that you could be causing this person a lot of hassle; possibly a lot of money, by them being in contact with you.

I didn't like it when it happened to me, and so I try not to do it to others.

Then again, if "respecting" Scientology's beliefs means cutting yourself off from family, that's a whole different thing.

I have very mixed feelings about this whole issue. I guess I'll have to work through them.

[Dulloldfart]

He go declared because he figured out how to not have to answer his merc (like email) messages. And I think he was showing others how to do it too. You could save the message, then delete it, then delete the saved message, or something like that. And it got him declared.

Useless merc trivia:
I was in the HGB from around 1989 to 1995, and remember two ways to do it. MERCURY was (still is?) the INCOMM e-mail system, pretty nifty actually in some ways, such as differentiating an answer from an ack. If a senior sent you an origination, you had to answer it, i.e. you would hit the "answer" key and type whatever you wanted. If the response was satisfactory, the senior would send you an ack using the "ack" key. When you got the ack, you could shred it. End of cycle. But you couldn't shred an origination, and you couldn't shred an answer, and you couldn't ack an origination either. There was a single key for "Ack and shred", and in response to a satisfactory answer you could just hit it, and it would send a "Thank you" back, and shred the comm cycle, and bring up the next one, all within one second. If you didn't answer a merc (SO slang for an e-mail on this system) within 24 hours, it staledated, and you got chitted or worse, so it got to be a big deal to not staledate your merc traffic.

Anyway, one way to avoid the staledating was to hit the answer key, delete the incoming message, and instead write an origination to the person who had sent you the original message. The other person would see what looked like an origination from you, and answer it, which you could then ack and shred, thereby ending the comm cycle and (for now) getting out of handling the original origination. Maybe the first person would notice you had avoided the original comm cycle, or maybe not.

The other way was if you had two separate log-ons, for two separate hats, you could forward the original message to your other ID, then go through the answer/ack cycle between your own IDs.

These methods were only temporary, putting off some dire punishment for a short time, as everyone knew that you were doing something funky if you didn't answer up within 24 hours.

Note that you couldn't just say, "OK, I've got your order, I'm working on it" as that qualified as a "wilco", and you would have to show some genuine progress. Some Programs Chiefs would have literally two hundred or more mercs a day to handle. Totally insane set-up.

Paul