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Thread: Scientology Reformation Movement

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    Patron TruthRevealed's Avatar
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    Default Scientology Reformation Movement

    I have recently watched BBC's Panorama on Scientology, and was interested in knowing a bit more about the Reformation Movement in America. Can any of you shed any light on this, and does anyone know if this is also happening in Australia?
    All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

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    Unbeliever uniquemand's Avatar
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    As far as I know, there is no Scientology Reform movement. It's actually a contradiction in terms. Scientology is as LRH laid it out. Changes from that format by definition make it no longer scientology. Thus, either you do things as LRH described (including the SO, RPF, conditions formulas, targeting critics, intelligence operations against government targets, etc.) or you don't, in which case it is not Scientology anymore.

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    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthRevealed View Post
    I have recently watched BBC's Panorama on Scientology, and was interested in knowing a bit more about the Reformation Movement in America. Can any of you shed any light on this, and does anyone know if this is also happening in Australia?
    It could be referring to "Independent Scientology," which has existed since the 50s, but some people have recently hijacked the name and pretend that the idea is new, and theirs. The people congregate around Marty Rathbun and post on his blog at http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/, as well as related blogs like www.scientology-cult.com. But his is the main rallying point, Hip hip. . . !

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    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uniquemand View Post
    As far as I know, there is no Scientology Reform movement. It's actually a contradiction in terms. Scientology is as LRH laid it out. Changes from that format by definition make it no longer scientology. Thus, either you do things as LRH described (including the SO, RPF, conditions formulas, targeting critics, intelligence operations against government targets, etc.) or you don't, in which case it is not Scientology anymore.
    Right to the point!

    There can no longer be "Scientology" within a framework of "reformation".

    But that doesn't mean that someone can't CONVINCE some or many people that such a thing is possible. People can believe any sort of nonsense - and many do every second of every day.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

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    Fool on the Hill Voltaire's Child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uniquemand View Post
    As far as I know, there is no Scientology Reform movement. It's actually a contradiction in terms. Scientology is as LRH laid it out. Changes from that format by definition make it no longer scientology. Thus, either you do things as LRH described (including the SO, RPF, conditions formulas, targeting critics, intelligence operations against government targets, etc.) or you don't, in which case it is not Scientology anymore.
    If that principle held true, then nobody would be able to call themselves "reformed church" of anything, yet it happens all the time.
    I am truly into myself, yes. And I'm just as interested in other people. When I'm not thinking of one, I'm thinking of the other.

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    Clear as Mud Auditor's Toad's Avatar
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    It would seem to me that the way in which lrh set it up there is no way to deviate from what he set down as the way it had -and - has - to be.

    Reform = PR BS

    " Insist on yourself ; never imitate ".
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    " Nothing is as at last scared but the integrity of your own mind "
    Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire's Child View Post
    If that principle held true, then nobody would be able to call themselves "reformed church" of anything, yet it happens all the time.
    But Fluffy, there has NEVER been another "religion" or "movement" that took some much time, effort and energy to MAKE SURE that it NEVER CHANGED (i.e. "reformed" being one possible version of change)!!!!!!

    Scientology IS very unique in that regard when compared to other movements and social activities.

    Hubbard took incredible effort to write ENDLESS policies that set out HOW it MUST be run, down to his anal-retentive exquisite detail of certain endless requirements (various EPs, "products", etc), and also to ensure the subject would NEVER CHANGE through an exactly set-up Qual, ethics, and everything else to monitor, detect, catch and CORRECT ANY DEVIATION from the subject. This sort of planning and behavior is NOT common in just about ANY "modern" religion. I am not saying that the Catholic Church doesn't "plan", it surely does, but the DEGREE to which Hubbard took "executing programs" and "getting things done just as intended", well, Scientology stands alone in this regard.

    You don't find things like:

    "Keeping Islam Working"

    or

    "Hard Sell" by the minister at the local Christian Church soliciting donations, after he has just spent 3 hours doing TRs (to not betray his real feelings), TR lying, various "dissem drills", and other assorted "drilled practices" designed to MAXIMIZE the effectiveness of the indoctrination & selling tools. Oh, you find it in companies and MLM groups, but NOT most religions.

    Fluffernutter, in words not much unlike Hubbard's own, and he was RIGHT in this regard, humans seem to love to and generally will ALTER everything one touches. It might not even be a "human" factor alone, but ANYTHING existing in this universe eventually morphs into something else - given enough time. But also, people are notorious for "getting it wrong" - poor duplication or tendency to alter by way of "fixed ideas" and preconceived notions in ones thinking.

    So, yes, many other "isms" and "ologies" suffer from, or go through an endless changing into something else. Hubbard was unique in this, and maybe entirely alone, in that he clearly recognized this tendency for human created things to change (a correct observation as I see it), and he took amazing far-past-the-usual efforts to prevent it from happening to HIS subject. That the thing he was trying to stop from morphing into something else, the subject of Scientology itself, was grossly flawed, is another topic entirely.

    Saying it "happens all of the time", while using other past religions as examples of "reformation", is NOT a valid comparison, because ONLY Hubbard and Scientology, within the large expanse of ALL religions, involve EXTENSIVE carefully laid-out intentions, plans, programs and policies, right down to amazing detail, with exact patter, exact responses, and so forth, specifically designed to realize the clearly stated INTENTION of "a subject left forever unchanged" by the "reactive" impulses of humans with avid cravings to be liked. A policy or essay like "KSW" is NOT common in other "isms" or "ologies".

    On an IQ test:

    Scientology is to KSW

    as

    The Catholic Church is to ( blank).

    It's a trick question. None of the other religions have anything even closely resembling such an intention, plan, design, or aim.

    Flunk!

    But, you know I love you anyway.
    Last edited by Gadfly; 1st December 2010 at 11:26 PM.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

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    Quote Originally Posted by uniquemand View Post
    As far as I know, there is no Scientology Reform movement. It's actually a contradiction in terms. Scientology is as LRH laid it out. Changes from that format by definition make it no longer scientology. Thus, either you do things as LRH described (including the SO, RPF, conditions formulas, targeting critics, intelligence operations against government targets, etc.) or you don't, in which case it is not Scientology anymore.
    This pretty much says it all, there really isn't anything else to say
    Yes lurkers you are not alone, everyone thinks Scientology is creepy, it's not just you

    http://www.mediacurves.com/Religion/...logy/Index.cfm

  9. #9
    Clear as Mud Auditor's Toad's Avatar
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    Scientology? Going Down? Why, yes it is.

    Reform it with a fucking yard sale of all it's physical assets.

    " Insist on yourself ; never imitate ".
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    " Nothing is as at last scared but the integrity of your own mind "
    Ralph Waldo Emerson


  10. #10
    Fool on the Hill Voltaire's Child's Avatar
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    Really, Gaddy?

    So those anti heretic auto da fes in the Catholic Church were imaginary?
    I am truly into myself, yes. And I'm just as interested in other people. When I'm not thinking of one, I'm thinking of the other.

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